A Millennial’s Perspective

[Sheepdog]

A quick, but insightful read...

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/im-millennial-and-i-ride-motorcycles?CMPID=010718&spMailingID=32491123&spUserID=NzM4NjM3NjU5NTYS1&spJobID=1200671413&spReportId=MTIwMDY3MTQxMwS2

[Lannis]

Insightful, yes, but sort of characterizes everyone who was born in a certain time period as the same way - helpless without their social media, dependent on their parents, believing that things "aren't as good as" they used to be (a fallacy they share with many of their elders), wallowing in student debt incurred for a useless "Gender Studies" degree, can't show up for work on time, all the "millennial" cliches.

I know a LOT of young folks that are nothing like this.   I know many of them because they ride motorcycles.   At a typical summertime Guzzi lunch, we might have almost half the crew be 20s-30s - Alec, Nate, Chris, Matthew, and Ben to name a few - all regular guys with jobs and riding motorcycles a long way.

The pajama boys are beyond our hope and ken.    There's plenty of real men born in the 80s and 90s out there, never fear ... !

Lannis

[giusto]

Insightful, yes, but sort of characterizes everyone who was born in a certain time period as the same way - helpless without their social media, dependent on their parents, believing that things "aren't as good as" they used to be (a fallacy they share with many of their elders), wallowing in student debt incurred for a useless "Gender Studies" degree, can't show up for work on time, all the "millennial" cliches.

I know a LOT of young folks that are nothing like this.   I know many of them because they ride motorcycles.   At a typical summertime Guzzi lunch, we might have almost half the crew be 20s-30s - Alec, Nate, Chris, Matthew, and Ben to name a few - all regular guys with jobs and riding motorcycles a long way.

The pajama boys are beyond our hope and ken.    There's plenty of real men born in the 80s and 90s out there, never fear ... !

Lannis

 :1: awesome       ditto and more

[rider33]

that's a good piece and thanks for posting the link.  This comes up a lot in moto-circles as the aging of the current buyer base and the low opt-in among younger groups is causing significant nashing of teeth among dealers, manufactures, & retailers.  The theme he brings up (lower wages, higher debt, less upward mobility) are real and I see it all the time among some of the 20-somethings I work with. I do think the industry sort of shot themselves in the foot too by obsessively chasing the boomer group to the exclusion of other segments.  Until fairly recently finding a 500cc or less bike in the States anyway that was aspirational was pretty tough & odds are, most of us started on I expensive little 250-500cc bikes.  I have noticed of the bikes I've owned it's not the mega-bikes that the 20-somethings tend to fawn over,  it's the smaller retro roadsters like the V7 or Bonnie's.  While larger social trends are surely at play, marketing 101 is hard to ignore: you need to make stuff that people want because unless you do that, no amount of viral video's or unveilings a trendy brew pubs is going to sell it.

[JeffOlson]

That's a good article. I enjoyed reading it, but it is distressing. The economy is indeed rotten for many young people. When I was their age, one could easily find full-time work. Not so anymore. "It's no wonder we aren't buying new motorcycles; we can barely afford to pay our share of the monthly rent."

I have four boys in their mid-20s to early-30s. The only one doing okay is son #2, and that is because he went to Afghanistan and risked his life in 300 firefights so he could go to HVAC school on the GI Bill and get a job as a tradesman. The other three are struggling to pay rent because all they can find is part-time, minimum wage work--even son #1 with a degree from Seattle Pacific University. Son #3 is about to be evicted because he is behind on his rent...

The three younger boys all rode motorcycles for a time, but financial difficulties have resulted in the loss of their bikes. I do not expect any of them to do better economically than I have (except possibly son #4, but only if he goes to law school).

I suppose I could bail them out, but struggling is essential to growing stronger and continuing to search for better work, even if it means joining the army and going to war... In the meantime, no more motorcycles.

[Orange Guzzi]

The motorcycle life style and mode of transportation may be changing in the U.S., but world wide, more motorcycles are sold in other market Nations every 11 days than are sold in the U.S.

There are a lot of people in the U.S.  Not everyone has to be mechanically inclined.  Skilled labor is a generic term.  Demand will drive fulfillment of needs. 

Electric motors are the future.  Change is good. I think Humans will survive for a very long time. 

[Darren Williams]

Another aspect to a 20 something buying a new bike is insurance. The same bike that costs me, as a more mature rider, $546 a year would cost my 26 year old son $2435 a year.  Yes I carry him on my policy and he pays me back. Also do the same for his car.

[LowRyter]

I know a few younger riders like this.  Not much money but enough time on their hands to wrench on an old 70s era bike- usually anything BUT a Harley, instead it's Japanese bikes, Beemers and Guzzis.  I think many see more "cred" with a cut down old bike than a showroom one. 

Power to them.

[Ncdan]

You are so right Lannis. My boy is one of the ones that became a real man, a God fearing man and a hard working man. I’m a proud Father.

[Bud]

     I have three sons, 31, 28 and 25. 31 is an electrician married to a teacher. Has two older motorcycles and has ridden for ten years. Now has two old cars and a house that needs a boiler and a roof. No new bikes in his future. 28 is doing well as head of engineering for a small aeronautics firm. He's into cars and building a kit which he has no time for seeing he works 6-7 days a week. 25 picked up an old SV650 three years ago that was ridden hard but does him well. He is a school teacher with a significant other who is a hygienist. They are living with her mom saving for a house. No new bike in his future.
     I think things are tougher for younger people than it was for us. Things keep getting tougher for all of us. I also think that one has to have priorities and I know that I would have to totally down and out to not have a bike of some sort. That being said there is a time for everything and some young people may not have the money where others just don't have the time.
     How many bikes are out there for sale that are six or eight years old with 3000 miles on them. Those bikes are in the non millennium calculations. Just because some older people buy them doesn't mean they ride them.

[Sasquatch Jim]

  Not many millennials wii run with scissors either.

[ridingron]

I think part of the problem in respect to jobs is the older guys working in their 70's. I work in a department with about 50 guys. 4 of them are well into their 70's with no intention to quit any time soon. They all could live comfortable without working. One of the guys made the statement that he was making more money than any other time in his life. He is making about 60K at work, another 10K for retirement and another 30K SSN. I understand it would be hard to walk away from 60K, but ... I think his problem is he doesn't know what else to do. He worked 2 jobs most his life and is now down to 40 hours (random OT, 20 hours a year). His 2 adult kids very seldom talk to him. I've known him for 35 years and cannot recall him taking a vacation other than a family reunion weekend back in the 80"s.

Myself? Barring a financial catastrophe, I plan to work another year or so. I'll be eligible for full retirement benefits. I'll walk away and not look back. I won't be able to make impulse purchases like now but I think I'll be OK.             

[ridingron]

    Not many millennials will run with scissors either. 

That's funny and I think rather true for many of them. Unfortunately, who made them that way?

[Lannis]

     
I think things are tougher for younger people than it was for us.

I sort of disagree.   I think a combination of (1) The expectation of the work they need to do and (2) What they expect to own as a result - is much different than it was for us, and that makes it seem harder.   Me, anyway.

Both my boys have got more stuff and are farther along in their careers (money, house, cars)-wise than I was at their ages ... And they didn't cost me much.   One joined the Marines at 17 and the GI Bill took care of his M.E. degree when he got out, interned with an engineering company, 5 years there then a move up to another - the other went to a state university and worked summers, interned his final summer and took a job with the company he interned with, 7 years and doing well.   I see an awful lot of success stories out there ....

Lannis

[Bullitbob]

Insightful, yes, but sort of characterizes everyone who was born in a certain time period as the same way - helpless without their social media, dependent on their parents, believing that things "aren't as good as" they used to be (a fallacy they share with many of their elders), wallowing in student debt incurred for a useless "Gender Studies" degree, can't show up for work on time, all the "millennial" cliches.

I know a LOT of young folks that are nothing like this.   I know many of them because they ride motorcycles.   At a typical summertime Guzzi lunch, we might have almost half the crew be 20s-30s - Alec, Nate, Chris, Matthew, and Ben to name a few - all regular guys with jobs and riding motorcycles a long way.

The pajama boys are beyond our hope and ken.    There's plenty of real men born in the 80s and 90s out there, never fear ... !

Lannis

This afternoon oldbike54 called me and asked me what I was doing. At the time I was finishing up a clutch swap/oil change on my 1973 Honda Cb750 that was parked in my living room. Dusty wanted me to check out this thread and see what I thought and possibly put down a post. So far I've started writing twice and have deleted both posts. Third times a charm, right?

At 36 years I'm a little on the old side of being a millennial but I've always been somewhat of a throwback. When shopping for my first car in the mid 90's I made a life decision that I have stuck with. With a budget of $1500 I knew I wasn't going to get a kool late model car. It just wasn't happening. So, for months I checked local classifieds (pre Craigslist ya know) for something from the 60's. At the time muscle car prices were down and really nice grandma fresh sedans were dirt cheap. My $1500 bought me a 67,000 original mile 1966 Ford Falcon sedan. Was it a hotrod? No. Was it fast? No. Was it unique and a lot of fun to drive? Absolutely. Was it easy to work on and cheap to fix? Yes again.

I tell this story because it is a direct refection of the niche of motorcycles I've found myself in. Over a decade after buying my first car I decided to get my first motorcycle. At the time I was teaching and coaching full time with a stay at home wife and three kids. Not much room in the budget for a new HD Road King but I could pick up a complete Japanese bike for just a couple bills and have a pretty reliable scoot after some weekend wrenching. It's all about priorities. If you want to ride, you will find a bike.

Fast forward almost another decade. Most of my gearhead friends have branched out into motorcycles too. My buddies that I ride with range from 18 years old up into their 70's, but almost all of my friends that are millennials, have chosen to build Japanese bikes. Bikes are cheap, parts are cheap, and you can build something really nice for less than a down payment on a used Prius.

I found the article to be pretty indicative of someone who lives on the coast or perhaps a larger metropolitan area. The cost of living is simply higher and making ends meat seems harder.  My buddies, that live in the midwest, are in their 20's and 30's all have decent jobs, I'm an elementary principal, others are cabinet makers, teachers, work the rail road, farm, etc. We all have houses, most have families, but we all are not afraid to get our hands dirty to accomplish goals. I can't think of any of us that are rolling in dough but like I said before, if you want to ride, you will find a bike and prioritize.

[Lannis]

At 36 years I'm a little on the old side of being a millennial but I've always been somewhat of a throwback. When shopping for my first car in the mid 90's I made a life decision that I have stuck with. With a budget of $1500 I knew I wasn't going to get a kool late model car.

Buying what you can afford, with whatever money you can get your hands on.   No touching Dad for a big payment.   BING!  That's one.

I tell this story because it is a direct refection of the niche of motorcycles I've found myself in. Over a decade after buying my first car I decided to get my first motorcycle. At the time I was teaching and coaching full time with a stay at home wife and three kids. Not much room in the budget for a new HD Road King but I could pick up a complete Japanese bike for just a couple bills and have a pretty reliable scoot after some weekend wrenching. It's all about priorities. If you want to ride, you will find a bike.

Not only staying in the budget, but prioritizing bikes and handling it yourself.   BING BING!

I found the article to be pretty indicative of someone who lives on the coast or perhaps a larger metropolitan area. The cost of living is simply higher and making ends meat seems harder.  My buddies, that live in the midwest, are in their 20's and 30's all have decent jobs, I'm an elementary principal, others are cabinet makers, teachers, work the rail road, farm, etc. We all have houses, most have families, but we all are not afraid to get our hands dirty to accomplish goals.....

Live where the work is and where you can afford to live, and get your hands dirty when you need to .... BING BING BING!   

The prize is yours, and your friends'.   I saw no mention in there about "times are just too hard, it was so much better when YOU were young"   "I can't find a decent job even with my B.A. degree"   "It was EASY to get motorcycles when you old guys were coming along".

There's hope for this country yet!   Thanks for an inspiring tale ...

Lannis

[oldbike54]

 As stated in a different thread , I have great friends , Thanks Bob 

 Dusty

[John Ulrich]

I know many hard working millennial's who are doing good.  Cut the pitty party and tell the others to make something happen.   Look at people of age in every decade.... there will always be "the doers" and "the complainers".   As we sit back and say "things are not like the good old days"..... Someone younger who did not live then is succeeding thinking how easy it is!!!

[Aaron D.]

I don't want to sound like a "broken record" (you can look it up) but goodness, how can one say there are no good jobs?

Machine shops seem to have permanent "help wanted" signs out, every store/restaurant/auto repair shop is begging for people to come work,and after watching last night's Spacex launch I found so many freaking jobs just on THEIR website-many of which only require a GED. Heck I found several I could do.

Unemployment is VERY low. What in the world are people waiting for if they can't find a job?

[Gliderjohn]

I think every generation has a bell curve of workers. Vast majority will do okay, a few will do real well, a very small few great. Also the other end of those that will do little or nothing.
I did a lot of career planning with HS students when I was working. Some were very frustrating to try to work with and others pretty well had it figured out and planned out. Even had one male student, probably with an IQ in the 80s but he was working at a dairy at 4 am on school days and still making it to school on time. I don't worry much about him doing okay even if not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
GliderJohn

[Lannis]

I think every generation has a bell curve of workers. Vast majority will do okay, a few will do real well, a very small few great. Also the other end of those that will do little or nothing.
I did a lot of career planning with HS students when I was working. Some were very frustrating to try to work with and others pretty well had it figured out and planned out. Even had one male student, probably with an IQ in the 80s but he was working at a dairy at 4 am on school days and still making it to school on time. I don't worry much about him doing okay even if not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
GliderJohn

A boy that went to school with my sons was always catching a hard time because when it came to "Career Days" and the high-school show-and-tell about "What I Want To Do", he always said "I want to be the janitor at the school".   People would laugh, of course, and he didn't have the gift of repartee (I have no idea of his IQ but he didn't talk much), but it didn't seem to bother him.

So when he got out of high school, he went straight to work as a janitor at the schools.   When he was old enough for his CDL, he also started driving school buses.    After about 4 years they made him the janitor supervisor for the school system.

With the contacts he made as a janitor, he started a one-truck business contracting to pick up people's home trash twice a month for $25 a month per house.   Started with a flat bed stake truck, then bought a used municipal compactor truck, then another ... then started getting customers in surrounding counties.

He's 32 years old now, still lives at home, not married, loves his work, and at the moment probably has more money than he'll have any way to spend in his whole life.

Just a quiet country boy, no money in the family (well, till now), and doesn't care about status or cool ... just likes being able to make it on his own.    We need more like him ....

Lannis

[Rough Edge racing]

He's 32 years old now, still lives at home, not married, loves his work, and at the moment probably has more money than he'll have any way to spend in his whole life.

Just a quiet country boy, no money in the family (well, till now), and doesn't care about status or cool ... just likes being able to make it on his own.    We need more like him ....

Lannis

  A 32 year old  living at home with his parents may not exactly be making it on his own...In my opinion...

[Kev m]

The problem with generalizations is that they are general, duh. There are recognizable trends, there are mis-perceptions, and of course there are those who go against the grain. And to make matters worse the grass is always greener. I'm getting a little sick of the "we did this, they do that" BS. YEAH, there are differences, yeah time marches on, but "All of this has happened before, all of this will happen again" as much as we like to think we're special, humans are pretty predictable in the long run.

So yeah, the industry is going through a rough patch and times will change. The pendulum will swing, at least as long as internal combustion engines are a choice, and we'll see where it goes.

Some kids will grow up and be ambitious and make it, others won't. Yes, as a generation many Millenials have crushing student loans, that's a long term problem which probably needs to be addressed. But there are many more pieces to the puzzle.

Life goes on.

[Dilliw]

The problem with generalizations is that they are general, duh. There are recognizable trends, there are mis-perceptions, and of course there are those who go against the grain. And to make matters worse the grass is always greener. I'm getting a little sick of the "we did this, they do that" BS. YEAH, there are differences, yeah time marches on, but "All of this has happened before, all of this will happen again" as much as we like to think we're special, humans are pretty predictable in the long run.

So yeah, the industry is going through a rough patch and times will change. The pendulum will swing, at least as long as internal combustion engines are a choice, and we'll see where it goes.

Some kids will grow up and be ambitious and make it, others won't. Yes, as a generation many Millenials have crushing student loans, that's a long term problem which probably needs to be addressed. But there are many more pieces to the puzzle.

Life goes on.

All a motorcycle dealer needs to do is start taking Bitcoin and sales will jump 2000%.

[blackcat]

Some kids will grow up and be ambitious and make it, others won't.

This.

The guy who wrote the article picked apples to get by until something better came along, while some went to Wharton, graduated with no debt, received their trust fund and got a star on their forehead for being successful.

[ChuckH]

Unemployment is VERY low. What in the world are people waiting for if they can't find a job? 

We have a homeless shelter here in town for people who live in this county.  It can handle 20 guys, 16 gals on two-high bunk beds in dormitory type rooms.  I volunteered there for the last year, twice/month, breakfast shift, 6:00 to 10:00 AM.  Got to talk with the "clients" that way. 

The majority are in their 20's and 30's and are currently homeless because of "poor life choices" -- got in with the wrong crowd, education is not for me so dropped out of school, couldn't live by my parent's rules so they threw me out, experimented with funny smelling cigarettes and those lead to harder drugs, got on the wrong side of the police, etc, etc. 

One common trait among most of them is that they feel "entitled".  They're homeless and someone should be taking care of them, and the care should be "good".  For example;  it would be nice if this shelter had free Wi-Fi so I don't have to go to McDonalds or the Library to get connected -- we had this same breakfast food yesterday, don't we have something different for today -- do we have flavored coffee creamer, I don't like the taste of the non-flavored kind -- it goes on and on.

Our city is currently blessed with an extremely low unemployment rate -- <3%.  Signs are up all over the place.  All a person has to do is be qualified/capable of doing the job, be dependable and, in some cases, pass a drug test (a tough hurdle for some).  Unfortunately, the simple facts are they don't want to work, it's easier to have someone take care of them.

Too bad.

[Gliderjohn]

Concerning student debt, yes, this generation has had to use it the most. Student debt would have probably been a problem for the post WWII generation if it had not been for so many having the GI bill. But I also see too many students who are not realistic about school choices or career goals (little return income for money invested careers).
If a student is willing to use a community colleges and state colleges, live simply, work and basically take it all a bit seriously one can make it through with minimal if any debt. If you go into education or the medical field and are willing to work in need areas you can have all or part of your student debt paid off.
Many are not aware of training programs through unions either. For example locally the electrical union will take on a fresh out of high school student that shows potential and have them placed with local companies at $15.40 and hour (2014) and full benefit package their first year. Pay raises from their. The program takes four years which the student works FT and puts in about 900 hours of self study and about 30 classroom days over the four year period. Buy the end of four (age 22 for most) years the person is a journeyman rated electrician making around 90K with overtime. NO SCHOOLING COStS PERIOD!
GliderJohn

[Lannis]

  A 32 year old  living at home with his parents may not exactly be making it on his own...In my opinion...

Jay could buy several houses if he wanted to ... but since he works an awful lot, it doesn't make any sense for him to "have his own place"; what would be the point?    He and his parents get along well, they like having him there, he helps them around the place ... it's not like he's laying around playing video games and taking an occasional class at the community college.

Heckfire, if a single son of mine owned his own business and was doing well, or wanted to farm this place and make his living that way (rather than me renting it out), I'd be all for him living upstairs.

It's not "at-home" kids that are a problem, it's freeloading kids that are a problem.   Like Kev says, "generalizations" don't always work ....

Lannis

[Lannis]

Many are not aware of training programs through unions either. For example locally the electrical union will take on a fresh out of high school student that shows potential and have them placed with local companies at $15.40 and hour (2014) and full benefit package their first year. Pay raises from their. The program takes four years which the student works FT and puts in about 900 hours of self study and about 30 classroom days over the four year period. Buy the end of four (age 22 for most) years the person is a journeyman rated electrician making around 90K with overtime. NO SCHOOLING COStS PERIOD!
GliderJohn

This too!   

If you draw the "earning curves" and integrate under them for "total income earned" for the guy who does what you just described AND for a guy who goes to medical school to be, say, an orthopedic surgeon, the electrician is WAY ahead of the doctor for most of his life.   The doctor won't catch up to the electrician in total compensation (considering that the doctor was hemorrhaging money for 14 years while the electrician was earning) until they're in their late 40s or early 50s.

That's just money, now; job satisfaction or dealing with a "calling" is on a different page ....

Lannis

[Rough Edge racing]

Jay could buy several houses if he wanted to ... but since he works an awful lot, it doesn't make any sense for him to "have his own place"; what would be the point?    He and his parents get along well, they like having him there, he helps them around the place ... it's not like he's laying around playing video games and taking an occasional class at the community college.

Heckfire, if a single son of mine owned his own business and was doing well, or wanted to farm this place and make his living that way (rather than me renting it out), I'd be all for him living upstairs.

It's not "at-home" kids that are a problem, it's freeloading kids that are a problem.   Like Kev says, "generalizations" don't always work ....

Lannis

 In my opinion, the point is independence of body and soul...And based on what I have  seen in other similar situations.... But it's his life not mine...