Thank you and goodnight

[TimmyTheHog]

Lower back injury sucks...Trust me, I know.

not as bad as you but I have damaged a few sections near my tailbone due to snowboarding accident when I was younger...thank god so far hasn't bother me much yet to give up riding and the stuff I love

Always enjoy your review of your bikes and the pictures nonetheless!

I believe other would agreed with me when I say you will be welcomed always :)

See you online and on the road 

[Arizona Wayne]

No Guzzi?  No problem.

Stay, be social and enjoy the connections you’ve made, that’s what I’ve learned WG is all about.

Oh I still have 3 Guzzis and ride them when I can. 

[Huzo]

I might stop in from time to time, Dusty.  In fact, I think I�ve probably gotten as much or even more non-bike info on here as motorcycle knowledge.  So I might post from time to time asking questions about home maintenance, good all night restaurants in far reach places, car advice, and good scotch, all of these and more I�ve gotten from being here  .   

Jeez mate.
Don't sell yourself short. It's entirely possible that you'll have stuff you can pass on as opportunity presents itself.
It's kinda' amazing how much relative newcomers (to the Guzzi scene) like us can contribute from time to time on a specific subject that we might have had a disproportionate amount of exposure to.
The best thanks you could give to the forum would be to stay passively active ( there's an odd one) and pass on your knowledge when/where appropriate.
But suffice to say, I hope you can get your health issue/s into some semblance of order, given that is of more importance than anything.
Take care mate.
Huzo

[Huzo]

Lower back injury sucks...Trust me, I know.

not as bad as you but I have damaged a few sections near my tailbone due to snowboarding accident when I was younger...thank god so far hasn't bother me much yet to give up riding and the stuff I love

Always enjoy your review of your bikes and the pictures nonetheless!

I believe other would agreed with me when I say you will be welcomed always :)

See you online and on the road 

Something there for all of us, hey Timmy ????

[egschade]

Just a thought, before you sell the V7 would you consider installing some adjustable bar risers? A set like THESE made my (departing) Griso a lot more comfortable. A change in bars can also have a dramatic effect (higher / more pull back) As a fellow bad-disc sufferer I feel your pain.





And as others have said, even if you do sell the V7 you're welcome to lurk and join the conversation anytime.

[Kev m]

So here's another question for you. What's the difference between the V7 and KTM that helps you?

Suspension, ergonomics, and/or something else?

[bpreynolds]

Just a thought, before you sell the V7 would you consider installing some adjustable bar risers? A set like THESE made my (departing) Griso a lot more comfortable. A change in bars can also have a dramatic effect (higher / more pull back) As a fellow bad-disc sufferer I feel your pain.





And as others have said, even if you do sell the V7 you're welcome to lurk and join the conversation anytime.

Actually, that�s how I got that minor scarring on the bars on the V7III, installing the Rox Risers.  With my former Griso and even moreso with my former V9, I attempted many ergonomic changes in hopes it would result in better miles.  I tried adjustable risers, adjustable pegs, adjustable foot controls (required with the changes in the pegs), aftermarket and custom made seats, etc.  Eeek.  Sitting here thinking about it and tabulating it up, the time and dollars I spent is making me kinda get sour so I will here stop.    Let�s not forget the money I spent buying different bikes, but at least that part was fun and I don�t regret it even remotely 

So here's another question for you. What's the difference between the V7 and KTM that helps you?

Suspension, ergonomics, and/or something else?

Oh wow, have I thought about this.  And thought about it.  And thought about it some more.  In fact, it�s why I previously invested so much money into pegs, risers, etc., trying to make these bikes what I thought would be closer in ergos to my KTM.  As stated above, however, none of those changes seemed to make a �big� difference though some of them did make minor changes.  Though they were minor changes and made little impact for me, I imagine those same changes could make big differences for others so I�m not discounting them, rather, just saying for me they didn�t make that much difference.  The only thing I didn�t try was upgrading the suspension on the V9 or the V7III, but having poured a decent bit of money into those other bikes already with very little noticeable difference for me personally, the motivation to keep digging is just not there though I�m not doubting those here who say suspension upgrades have worked great for them.

I imagine this thread as less me saying goodbye to Moto Guzzi as much as it is me saying forever goodbye to a certain kind of ergonomic machine as I do feel suspension plays a signficant part in my troubles, but ergonomics, I think, play a bigger part.  In short, any bike that keeps my feet even slightly forward but my tail behind or, especially, bending my back to reach the bars with my feet still forward doesn�t seem to work for me.  Even worse if my feet are totally forward and all my weight is back straight down on my lower discs, the seat, and the road.  Ouch.

Keep in mind disc damage is fantastically different and differently difficult for each person.  What works for one person makes another person curse.  But for me, I think the ergonomics of the KTM are the main positive thing along with what I consider to be near the best suspension on Earth (WP) as a secondary but significant aspect.  So let�s look.  Here is my KTM with its 1� bar risers and me on it.  Btw, this is the most handsome picture I�ve taken of me on these different bikes in years.    Also pictured is me on the V9 with pegs moved back 2 inches (I had factory rearsets) and me on a V7II - I suppose there could be minor differences here not noted like between V7II and III and that thing a bike simulation can�t capture.  Anyways.














The first thing I notice in these pics is how straight up and down I am on the KTM versus the others, and how much legroom I have.  The pegs underneath me allow me to use my legs to take weight off my discs by merely pushing straight up.  I only imagine this is the case since, and I love this part, because I don�t even do it consciously per se.  This makes sense to me because the only bikes I�ve found in the last couple of years that don�t bother those lower 2�3 damaged discs are the KTM and, not so oddly, more pure sportbikes with legs behind me and nearly all weight off my lower back entirely; unfortunately, the latter also put all my weight on the wrists and mid back which start to tire somewhat over miles as does my neck out there fighting the wind directly.  I do sometimes wonder if I could find a sporting machine that�s not severe and with good wind protection for my neck, if that too would work for me.  For instance, with my former Griso all I really wanted to do was keep moving the pegs more and more rearward because the further rearward I went with them, the better it felt for me.  But I got to a place with the G where the bike just looked ridiculous with pegs down 3 inches and back 3 inches and it still not giving me the kind of relief I wanted.

Sorry this post is so long but reading all the responses and Kev�s question did make me want to explain things a bit further.  But no matter what my analysis here is, I doubt any convincing arguments are gonna get me back on a bike soon with ergos different than my KTM or maybe that sporting thing.  I might try and borrow someone�s sport bike to test this theory somewhat.  I�ve never gone more than about 80-90 miles on a sport machine but my lower back didn�t bother me in that time, just my wrists and mid upper back, but because those discs aren�t damaged, I quickly got over the mid back discomfort after getting off the bike for a while whereas my discs will bark at me for a week or more after riding a bike similar in ergos to my former Geese here pictured. 

[Kev m]

  Thanks for taking the time to share that.

IF those pictures are fairly accurate and representative I think I see the differences and how the KTM is like no other ergonomically. Combine that will possibly a better working suspension and the ability to take pressure off your spine with your legs and I can understand why the KTM works and the others don't.

The V7 and V9 both seem to be more upright, with your legs more out in front of you. That's going to put pressure on your spine compared to the KTM.

The Griso and Stelvio have your feet more under you (especially the Griso, though maybe that's too much). But the Griso and to a lesser extent the Stelvio have you leaned over more which changes the equation.

Really it looks like the Stelvio is CLOSE, but still not as upright.

The KTM might just have the magic combination then of ergos and suspension.

So IF/WHEN you decide to try another bike in the future, it looks like that might be the holy grail position.

Thanks again for sharing!

[bpreynolds]

Thanks for taking the time to share that.

IF those pictures are fairly accurate and representative I think I see the differences and how the KTM is like no other ergonomically. Combine that will possibly a better working suspension and the ability to take pressure off your spine with your legs and I can understand why the KTM works and the others don't.

The V7 and V9 both seem to be more upright, with your legs more out in front of you. That's going to put pressure on your spine compared to the KTM.

The Griso and Stelvio have your feet more under you (especially the Griso, though maybe that's too much). But the Griso and to a lesser extent the Stelvio have you leaned over more which changes the equation.

Really it looks like the Stelvio is CLOSE, but still not as upright.

The KTM might just have the magic combination then of ergos and suspension.

So IF/WHEN you decide to try another bike in the future, it looks like that might be the holy grail position.

Thanks again for sharing!

Great observation about the G, Kev.  I added a little about the G to my previous post. 

[TimmyTheHog]

again, thanks for your in depth review regarding to the position and feel of the bike.

Beside what Kev had already said, I noticed all the Guzzi has the peg high in relation to your body which is causing more "bend" to your hip...this I can def see the stress to your spin.

Beside the rear suspension which can be quite pricy, were the pegs lower as well? Can't recall if you did or not...but again, I know you don't feel like throwing more money in which I completely understand as well.

I find when I did my pegs by 1", my tailbone was relief quite significantly. However, I don't push my bike as hard as some people, so I have no idea if the pegs will scrap the pavement or not.
 
Human nature body is meant to be somewhat crouch but with ever limps relatively straight....and your KTM seems to be in that range especially due to your injury.

[LowRyter]

I was thrown out of a car 25 years ago (t tops and no seatbelt on).  Compression fracture on 4 of the 6 lower lumbar.  I missed 6 weeks of work and wore a brace for 3 months.  No real problems.  I did feel muscle twinges for a few years, nothing serious.

I get some unrelated shoulder aches now.  Had some PT and started working out more.   Have to workout regularly to keep aches away.

[drdwb]

BP you might try looking for someone near you doing this work, (see link below) it’s non invasive, and being in the Spinal rehab business for the last 31 years I’ve seen lots of things come and go, these folks are building a solid rep with documentation for getting great changes. Just saying don’t lose hope. I’ll certainly miss your posts and input. Good luck.
Dave

Not gonna here rehash my whole back, damaged discs thing but I have decided to sell the little and wonderful V7III.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8wjM7gqUA8

[Muzz]

Many moons ago someone here posted a site which enabled you to construct a picture on a person on a bike; it gave different bikes to choose from.

My son was saying how uncomfortable his Harley was at the time, so I dialed up a picture of me on the Breva (amazingly comfortable) and him on his Harley. A couple of reasonably minor tweaks and we ended up with the same riding position. Not only did it make his ride comfortable, he also found that the different position gave him way more control and better confidence in the corners.

I should have bookmarked it, but thought I would never need it again.

Edit
http://cycle-ergo.com/

[Arizona Wayne]

Bp, at least you've found 1 bike that meets your ergonomic needs.  I've been lucky enough to adjust my bikes/scooters to meet my needs much more easily than you.  Other than my scooters I've never had a MC where my footpegs are in front of my body.  Part of the beauty of footboards is you can put your feet just about wherever you want.  On maxi-scooters I have it's like sitting on a chair.  Then all I have to deal with is back support, which I do.  On 1 of my scooters I can adjust my distance from the handlebar to compensate for arm/leg length.  At 30" inseam legs I have it @ it's shortest setting to fit me. 

[tris]

..........

Edit
http://cycle-ergo.com/

Thanks for that Muzz - I'd forgotten about that

Still I've worked out why I struggle a bit when putting my feet down on the B11

The seat is 2" higher than my instep is long

[Arizona Wayne]

Thanks for that Muzz - I'd forgotten about that

Still I've worked out why I struggle a bit when putting my feet down on the B11

The seat is 2" higher than my instep is long

The 750 Breva was available the same time the 1100 Breva was and it offered a lower seat for those that needed it.  I didn't but demo rode a 1100 Breva and found it felt lower/cramped than my 750 Breva at the time. 

[tris]

The B11 is a bit weird.

Despite the seat to ground height being a tad too high for me, I've put on Goldwing pegs to drop them down a bit as it felt cramped - strange

[Kev m]

Thanks for that Muzz - I'd forgotten about that

Still I've worked out why I struggle a bit when putting my feet down on the B11

The seat is 2" higher than my instep is long

There is an oem lower gel seat. It was pretty darn comfortable. I bought it in case Jenn wanted to ride the B11 (turned out it was still too big for her), but wound up using it so the time because it was better than the OEM seat. And it didn't need the height change. On the downside though it probably contributed to the knee cramps I'd get by the end of the first tank full.

[Kev m]

Bp, at least you've found 1 bike that meets your ergonomic needs.  I've been lucky enough to adjust my bikes/scooters to meet my needs much more easily than you.  Other than my scooters I've never had a MC where my footpegs are in front of my body.  Part of the beauty of footboards is you can put your feet just about wherever you want. 

I don't have any real physical problems with different (even extreme) ergos. But I just found that the more upright and less cramped riding positions work better for me enough that I just plain enjoy the bike better.

That's why all my attempts to own bikes more sport/sport touring oriented end in early sales. The R1100RS, B11, ST3, hell even the VT500 Ascot all departed much sooner than a Jackal, and a myriad of Harleys, and the V7.