Moto Guzzi's Future

[Chuck in Indiana]

I think Guzzi missed the mark with the V9.  It seemed aimed at the Sportster crowd.  It has odd sized tires and IMHO, the tank is just too damned ugly(que every V9 owner on the board telling me I'm off the mark).  If they'd made the thing decent looking it just would have stolen sales from the V7 so I understand Guzzi's approach in making it different in an attempt to increase sales but it's a miss.

Agreed. That is pretty much what I said about it when I demoed one at the Oregon nationals. It *could* be a nice handling bike, but the ergos are just all wrong. I couldn't touch the tank with my knees, much less get a grip, and the riding position puts weight aft.. not where you want it in the twisties. Feet forward?  Other than the *very nice* drivetrain, it wasn't very Guzzi like.

[bad Chad]

That's pretty much my impression after trying a Roamer.  They have since moved the pegs back several inches on both models that I think would go fair way to making better ergonomics.

[Unkept]

The V85 is a "two valve motor??"

I asked the dealer for a follow up on that, haven't heard back.

My guess is they were mistaken, only looking at the V9 / old engine in the prototype...

Maybe it's 80 seahorse power or something. ;)

[fossil]

"Maybe it's 80 seahorse power or something. ;)"

Well, if it has the power of an old Johnson SeaHorse....

[Unkept]

"Maybe it's 80 seahorse power or something. ;)"

Well, if it has the power of an old Johnson SeaHorse....

 

I'm happy with the power of a Breva 750, anything on top is gravy.

What would be nicer is the idea of a new frame and suspension, to me anyway.

I'll have fun watching what happens! The V7 III Stone is pretty nice, except the missing tach and flat paint.

[ramarren]

I'm happy with the power of a Breva 750, anything on top is gravy.

What would be nicer is the idea of a new frame and suspension, to me anyway.

I'll have fun watching what happens! The V7 III Stone is pretty nice, except the missing tach and flat paint.

So buy a V7 III Special instead. ??

[TimmyTheHog]

I personally do not care if anyone considers the V7 to be a so-called beginners bike.  I bought mine, and totally love it, based on its actual features.    Which to my knowledge are unique in our market today

I wanted something seriously light weight.  As large a gas tank as possible.  A simple, air-cooled engine.    Had to handle well, with plenty of ground clearance.  Shaft drive.  Standard bike ergonomics.   A simple, durable, well tested design.   Straightforward to maintain.  Capable of easily running 85 mph all day.   Able to mount hard saddlebags.  Finally, I wanted something that had a bit of character.   Not mechanically boring.  Not a scooter.  And it would be a huge plus if the bike looked good and was not covered by plastic fairings and gee games.

I did not care about maximizing horsepower.  I did not care about ABS.  I did not want double disk brakes.   Did not need two-up capability. 

First, I am what you considered as a Millennial and a fairly new rider XD...so my opinion might be tad bias 

But how you describe the bike is what I was looking for when I decided to purchase the V7 off my friend.

I guess I am one of the rare one who does not care for speed (which is still nice once a while but not a necessity) but just want something reliable that can take me places and looks good without all those plastics...

Beginner bike or not, it has serves my friend and I well over many miles and I expect to have many more if nothing major changes in my life.

As for the FUTURE of the MG...well, after reading thru the history and what not of MG, I can UNDERSTAND why there are limited amount of style of the bikes out there...

MG has stuck with what sell for them and very very very careful about their finances...whether just being frugal or simply just don't have enough funding...that part I can't say.

Since the unfortunate of Euro 4 that killed a lot of MG bikes, I seriously hoping V85 will bring some of the not-so-retro crowd back...especially the off-road enduro crowd.

As I have been slowly plotting my stone into a scrambler  the more I dig, the more I realized the cost and amount of mod required, the more I am put off the project as I just don't have that much time on my hand...

[Unkept]

So buy a V7 III Special instead. ??

Hey!

I've thought about that, but I like the cast wheels of the V7 Stone and the black exhaust. I'm a bit anti-chrome and tubed tires. 

I also wish they would go with a coherent paint scheme. The blue on the Special is gorgeous, except why didn't they paint the rear fender blue and left it black? Only the black special has a full matching paint job! WHY?! lol

If I do get a V7III, it may be a Special. I'd just have to budget swapping the wheels (and getting them changed to silver, too much black) and I'd like to repaint that rear fender.

Ah I'm being picky. 

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Hey!

I've thought about that, but I like the cast wheels of the V7 Stone and the black exhaust. I'm a bit anti-chrome and tubed tires. 

I also wish they would go with a coherent paint scheme. The blue on the Special is gorgeous, except why didn't they paint the rear fender blue and left it black? Only the black special has a full matching paint job! WHY?! lol

If I do get a V7III, it may be a Special. I'd just have to budget swapping the wheels (and getting them changed to silver, too much black) and I'd like to repaint that rear fender.

Ah I'm being picky. 

Maybe a Rough or a Milano are in your future.

[Unkept]

Maybe a Rough or a Milano are in your future.

They just need to swap headlights and exhausts!

 

If I get a bike this year, it'll probably be a Breva 750 again. I really liked the one we had before, and they are a bargain now that the V7 is so prevalent (in Guzzi scale.) They also have 17" wheels front and back and have radials available for both now, which is sweet.

But I'm keeping the V7 in mind, with the ABS, traction control, slick six speed, large tank, and more power....  Would be fine too! I think Guzzi makes some good stuff right now, but I do hope we'll see a bit more variety in the mix soon. V85, new 1100, etc.

[rider33]

as someone who has owned & ridden bikes ranging from not-that-much-faster-than-walking to holy-shit-I-can-barely-hold-on, I think it's safe to say the majority of riders own bikes that have a great deal more capability than they really make use of.  For the select few who do own 100HP+ bikes for which they have the skill set to fully utilize,  wisdom (brought on by not dying) typically limits the flexing of that muscle to track days, not flirting with disaster on the Pacific Coast Highway.  In that light,  a 50-60HP twin is more than enough for most things & is apt to contribute to your longevity as it is less prone to twitchy right wrist disease which in many cases can be fatal (and nearly always expensive).  Thus my interest in a larger bore V roadster (ala supersized V7) has less to do with moving from entry or re-entry or whatever bike than it does to finding one that fits my 6'2" frame better.   Also, as I spend a fair amount of time riding from the left coast to the right, something larger w/o being in the dreadnought class would be nice, particularly if it where not plastic dipped or predending to be a refugee from 1953.  Classic roadsters are selling & to all sorts of riders.  Guzzi is well positioned to bring out a larger one.  As Triumph is learning with the 1,200's, there is a market for them when done right.

[Guzzi Gal]

I wanted something seriously lightweight.  As large a gas tank as possible.  A simple, air-cooled engine.    Had to handle well, with plenty of ground clearance.  Shaft drive.  Standard bike ergonomics.   A simple, durable, well tested design.   Straightforward to maintain.  Capable of easily running 85 mph all day.   Able to mount hard saddlebags.  Finally, I wanted something that had a bit of character.   Not mechanically boring.  Not a scooter.  And it would be a huge plus if the bike looked good and was not covered by plastic fairings and gee games.

I did not care about maximizing horsepower. - Did not need two-up capability. 
 
And then I planned to ride the heck out of it.

^^THIS!^^

IMHO, if Piaggio would make this...




...in this size/weight but in a 500, priced at say $5500.00+- USD, I bet they'd sell out (I'd buy one). 


 

With the trend favoring smaller displacement bikes, something like this could tic the boxes for quite a few new, returning, and established riders.

Piaggio would be smart to keep competition between brands to a minimum.  Each should have its own distinct flavor and complement the other.  That said, they won't get sold without the public having easy access to view/test ride models and equally painless access to service and parts after purchase.
   

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Funny, as I was deciding what my next would be, my final two bike were between the MG V7III Special and the Yamaha SR400.  The more I learned about the V7, the easier the decision became.

[bpreynolds]

I�m at an interesting place as per this thread goes.  I�ve owned and driven a lot of Geese in these last 13 or 14 years I�ve been riding street, probably well over 100k miles on MG.  I wasn�t worried for MG 13 years ago.  I wasn�t worried during the recession.  Even as recently as 2 years ago when MG decided to drop the CARC models and focus on retro and cruisers; I thought it was a smart move.  Then.  Two years on, I�m now not so sure and I sit here today more concerned for the brand than I have ever been.  And it�s not even so much the bikes, though I do think they made a major mistep with the albeit wonderful V9.  I think my worry has more to do with where things are per se.

In theory it made so much seeming sense.  MG was retro before mustaches and dress boots on motorcycles became fashionable; thus, them focusing on what they have always done well (cruisers and retro) would, on paper, seem the right move, or at least a financially smart one.  But motorcycle sales are declining overall and conversely, there has been a kind of explosion in the retro field.  No longer is it just someone choosing between a V7 and/or a Bonnie.  There are not 1, but 2 XSR versions now, a host of Duc Scramblers, too many 9T versions to count, a new Kawi �retro�.  Now I doubt there are many folks out there choosing directly between a 9T and a V7 but what I�m saying is that overall, I dunno if this is a niche field anymore.  It�s not.  The competition is more fierce than it has ever been. 

Meanwhile in baggerdom, though Harley is arguably making some of the best bikes they have ever made, their sales are declining - I don�t think it�s the so called �death rattle� a thread here would believe but I do think it�s a possible indication of the bagger/cruiser market�s overall direction.  And too, when the 1400 first came out it had a lot going for it that many others in the field didn�t have: cruise control, ride modes, traction control, gobs of horsepower.  How things have changed even in the last two-three years.  Nowadays, even the damn super nakeds have cruise control and mega scooters have some version of traction control and so forth.  Technology on motorcycles has also exploded where iPad worthy TFT dashes and a ton of other gadgets are becoming more and more standard. 

I�ve always been accustomed to seeing leftover Geese on sales floors and it�s almost cliche to say but with some truth it is that many of us wait to buy a new one until they are �on sale� so to speak; however, and this is a very unscientific statement here, but I don�t recall ever seeing as many leftover Geese sitting on dealer floors as I see today.  I recently had a wonderful and seemingly modestly successful dealer tell me selling Geese is not only a losing proposition, it is a losing reality where unless you have some kind of passion and pockets to keep it going you�ll find the bottom quickly.  I think it has always been this way somewhat; I just worry it�s now worse than I can ever recall.

So where does all of the above leave Guzzi?  Where they�ve always been?  I flat out dunno.  But I do know I am more worried for them than I have ever been in these last 13 or 14 years.

[jas67]

IMHO, if Piaggio would make this...




...in this size/weight but in a 500, priced at say $5500.00+- USD, I bet they'd sell out (I'd buy one). 


 

A 500cc V7III would cost nearly as much to build as a 750cc one.   The complexity, manufacturing, and assembly costs are all the same.   It would likely be identical, just with a smaller bore and or stroke.    So, there is no way they could make a profit selling it for $5,500.  In order to get the price down, they'd have to go even cheaper on things like suspension, and I'm not sure that is even possible.

For Guzzi to build a retro-style bike cheaper than the V7 series, it would need to be a single, and likely chain drive.

Now, there are some here who have clamored for a Nuovo-Nuovo-Falcone.     I'm thinking in the current market, they'd sell like three or four of those.

I would think that it would need to be more like the Yamaha SR400, but, with electric start, and Italian style.    It could/should be priced around $5,000.

It'll be interesting to see how the now Royal Enfield twins do in the $6,500 price range.     I think that they're could eventually be of the biggest potential threats to the Guzzi V7 market if the quality is good, and they expand their dealer network.

[ramarren]

Hey!

I've thought about that, but I like the cast wheels of the V7 Stone and the black exhaust. I'm a bit anti-chrome and tubed tires. 

I also wish they would go with a coherent paint scheme. The blue on the Special is gorgeous, except why didn't they paint the rear fender blue and left it black? Only the black special has a full matching paint job! WHY?! lol

If I do get a V7III, it may be a Special. I'd just have to budget swapping the wheels (and getting them changed to silver, too much black) and I'd like to repaint that rear fender.

Ah I'm being picky. 

I dunno. I always consider whatever motorcycle I buy to the be the starting point from which my motorcycle comes. I'm very picky however; I make whatever I buy into what I want. I just try to start with a basis that has most of the essential basics the way I like them.

I bought a 2017 V7III Racer. Love it, all the basics are fine: seating position, seat, controls, frame, rear suspension units, performance, etc.

I've fitted the mufflers I like and updated the ECU programming to suit. I've changed out the mirrors for ones I prefer, am changing out the wheels and tires for ones I prefer, and am upgrading the fork's damping units. The black plastic fenders are light and strong, don't bother me, but I am intrigued with the look it would have if I went to the polished aluminum fenders, and (particularly since I am not much of a fan of the faux hold down belt over the tank) I'm considering custom paint as well.

It's all a matter of perspective. 

[usedtobefast]

I think most people that are attracted to the retro thing don't really care so much about performance.  It is looks and price.

A Ducati Scramber?  Looks cool.  Decent price.  Get to say you own a Ducati.  Go to BMW dealer.  R nine T.  Looks cool. Ouch kind of expensive.  Get to say you own a BMW. 
Similar thing at a Triumph dealer.

For the MG V7 line ... they are way cheaper than a R nine T.  They look more retro than the Ducati.  Triumph is pretty darn close.  And cool retro guys don't want a Harley! 

So I think the more the retro thing grows, the better for MG.

But wow, if they made a retro V11/12, and kept the price point reasonable, I think they'd sell every one they made. 

[PJPR01]

How many of you guys who own V7's or V9's would buy a modern day 2019 V11 model similar to the Scura, Coppa, Lemans style?  There's something inherently sexy about the V11's, stylish, powerful, torquey, racey, comfortable for decent long distances.

The V7 and the V9 don't come across as hefty or powerful, but more for toodling along on a country road at a nice pace in a comfortable fashion, lightweight enough to not have to worry about dropping it on a hill or in gravel or dirt, or maneuvering it in the garage, and still very stylish, albeit "slimmed" down from the V11 line.

I think the V7 Carbon and the various flavors are geared towards but not exclusively for city driving and commuting...a few hardy folks are putting long distance mileage on them...but not too many.

What would be interesting to see, if the data is available is how many of the V7 variants are sold in Europe vs. US as I suspect the demographic buying them in Europe is different than here in the US.

[Kev m]

How many of you guys who own V7's or V9's would buy a modern day 2019 V11 model similar to the Scura, Coppa, Lemans style?  There's something inherently sexy about the V11's, stylish, powerful, torquey, racey, comfortable for decent long distances.

The V7 and the V9 don't come across as hefty or powerful, but more for toodling along on a country road at a nice pace in a comfortable fashion, lightweight enough to not have to worry about dropping it on a hill or in gravel or dirt, or maneuvering it in the garage, and still very stylish, albeit "slimmed" down from the V11 line.

I think the V7 Carbon and the various flavors are geared towards but not exclusively for city driving and commuting...a few hardy folks are putting long distance mileage on them...but not too many.

What would be interesting to see, if the data is available is how many of the V7 variants are sold in Europe vs. US as I suspect the demographic buying them in Europe is different than here in the US.

I'm sure they'd sell a new sport V11, but not to me.

And I don't have a problem putting miles on my V7. Though ironically I'll probably take the RK on such things now.

But the RK is unnecessarily big for the task even more than some feel the V7 is small.

I dunno, I take extreme pleasure in the, uh, conservative nature of the V7.

But I don't think Guzzi should limit themselves to it.

[Toecutter]

Being a lifelong "Standard" rider (with a short stint on an '83 Shadow for a while), that grew up on the back of CB350s and drolled over CB750s until I started hoarding them myself... the V7 is an ideal modern standard, and one that I happily add mileage to. Is it a great commuter? Yeah it is. It's light, low center of gravity, huge tank, good ergos... but these are all things that also make it a great classic "touring bike". Slap a sheepskin on the seat, hang some bags off it, and away you go.

I *think* (meaning I'm speaking from a place of personal opinion and emotion and nothing else) that the V9 should have capitalized on the interest shown in the V7. As much as the old guard here seem to sneer at the V7 as some sort of retro-hipstermobile, facts is facts, and it's a popular bike. The V9 seems to have gone after the Sportster, the Shadow, and the Bolt. Problem is... that market is jam packed already, and they all meet my previous buyer's criteria of "solid support". Had the V9 hit these shores in more "standard" trim, I probably would have been first in line. Give me that big ol' V7 tank, and some sit up and beg ergos, a decent 19"/17" front/rear wheel combo to open up some options for tires, and I'd be happy. I know the old guard wishes for a new bike in LeMans trim... but lets be serious, most of you would decry such a move as "for the hipsters" and continue riding your classics anyways.

[jas67]

While the V9 Roamer and Bobber aren't my thing, I get why they did it.
Why not go after the Sportster/Bolt market?   They're trying to expand their market reach.   That is a good thing to keep Guzzi around making the bikes that I do like.

I do think that the V7III should've gotten the 850 motor to make it better able to compete with the Triumph Street Twin.

I hope that the new 850cc and the rumered 1100cc version of it find their way onto V7 style bikes.   This would position them well against the 900cc and 1200cc Triumph classics.

I'd love me a new green-frame Moto Guzzi 1100S!    Basically a 1000S with a pair of modern 320mm 4-piston Brembo brakes up front and a fuel injected 4V/cylinder 1100cc Vtwin putting out 110 HP and 85 lb*ft of torque.    Put a checkbox on the order sheet for Ohlins shocks in the back, and a big-piston Showa or Ohlins fork up front.

I love the Thruxton R, but would buy a new Guzz 1100S over it.

[rider33]

a V7 is a classic roadster, the V9 moved more into cruiser territory. Roadsters/retro's sales are expanding as they have broader demographic appeal and tend to be at more attractive price points. Cruiser sales are soft as they tend to skew older and be more expensive.  While there is an expanding universe of mid-sized retro's,  larger displacement options are still pretty thin for retro's.  As Guzzi use to do quite a bit of that it should be fairly easy for them to do it again.  'Pretty sure a V11 version of the V7 platform would do a lot better than the Eldorado's and Norge's I see sitting on the floor.  It's not about which is a better bike, hell, nearly all modern bikes are pretty good.  It's about building bikes that more people want to own.  Roadsters are broadly aspirational at the moment, not sure that is limited to the 650-750 class. 

[rider33]

While the V9 Roamer and Bobber aren't my thing, I get why they did it.
Why not go after the Sportster/Bolt market?   They're trying to expand their market reach.   That is a good thing to keep Guzzi around making the bikes that I do like.

I do think that the V7III should've gotten the 850 motor to make it better able to compete with the Triumph Street Twin.

I hope that the new 850cc and the rumered 1100cc version of it find their way onto V7 style bikes.   This would position them well against the 900cc and 1200cc Triumph classics.

I'd love me a new green-frame Moto Guzzi 1100S!    Basically a 1000S with a pair of modern 320mm 4-piston Brembo brakes up front and a fuel injected 4V/cylinder 1100cc Vtwin putting out 110 HP and 85 lb*ft of torque.    Put a checkbox on the order sheet for Ohlins shocks in the back, and a big-piston Showa or Ohlins fork up front.

I love the Thruxton R, but would buy a new Guzz 1100S over it.

'seriously, who the hell would not love that bike?

[Lcarlson]

a V7 is a classic roadster, the V9 moved more into cruiser territory. Roadsters/retro's sales are expanding as they have broader demographic appeal and tend to be at more attractive price points. Cruiser sales are soft as they tend to skew older and be more expensive.  While there is an expanding universe of mid-sized retro's,  larger displacement options are still pretty thin for retro's.  As Guzzi use to do quite a bit of that it should be fairly easy for them to do it again.  'Pretty sure a V11 version of the V7 platform would do a lot better than the Eldorado's and Norge's I see sitting on the floor.  It's not about which is a better bike, hell, nearly all modern bikes are pretty good.  It's about building bikes that more people want to own.  Roadsters are broadly aspirational at the moment, not sure that is limited to the 650-750 class.

Why I keep this one:

[kingoffleece]

I remember hearing that the V9 was requested by the UK importer?  Is that correct?

[JohninVT]

While the V9 Roamer and Bobber aren't my thing, I get why they did it.
Why not go after the Sportster/Bolt market?   They're trying to expand their market reach.   That is a good thing to keep Guzzi around making the bikes that I do like.

I do think that the V7III should've gotten the 850 motor to make it better able to compete with the Triumph Street Twin.

I hope that the new 850cc and the rumered 1100cc version of it find their way onto V7 style bikes.   This would position them well against the 900cc and 1200cc Triumph classics.

I'd love me a new green-frame Moto Guzzi 1100S!    Basically a 1000S with a pair of modern 320mm 4-piston Brembo brakes up front and a fuel injected 4V/cylinder 1100cc Vtwin putting out 110 HP and 85 lb*ft of torque.    Put a checkbox on the order sheet for Ohlins shocks in the back, and a big-piston Showa or Ohlins fork up front.

I love the Thruxton R, but would buy a new Guzz 1100S over it.

I’d rather have a V1400S.  The 1000S was 535lbs.  If Guzzi could change the ergos on a 1400 and cut some weight it would make a great sporty standard.  The forks, brakes and engine on the 1400 are all very good.  Some quality shocks, classic styling and a standard riding position would check all the boxes for me.

[ramarren]

How many of you guys who own V7's or V9's would buy a modern day 2019 V11 model similar to the Scura, Coppa, Lemans style?  There's something inherently sexy about the V11's, stylish, powerful, torquey, racey, comfortable for decent long distances.

The V7 and the V9 don't come across as hefty or powerful, but more for toodling along on a country road at a nice pace in a comfortable fashion, lightweight enough to not have to worry about dropping it on a hill or in gravel or dirt, or maneuvering it in the garage, and still very stylish, albeit "slimmed" down from the V11 line.
...

The V7III Racer comes across as a proper sport bike to other modern sport bike riders who also like naked bikes, since most modern sport bikes are fairing-clad little missiles. The fact that the Racer is more comfortable and has an extremely broad and useable power band actually give it something of a advantage for a quick wiggle through the twisty mountain roads too. The fact that it is comfortable and broad spectrum enough to also be used outside of the 'pure sport' ride is another plus. Sport bike riders like small, low weight, easy to steer, easy to ride bikes with good brakes and lots of ground clearance, which describes a V7III Racer very well.

Nobody wants a sport bike to be easy to pick up more than they want a sport bike not to fall down.

Where I think Moto Guzzi would find another plus and another level with the V7III Racer is if they made a model which included premium front suspension (preload and dual damping adjustable fork) with tubeless wheels and modern radial tires. I'm spending a hefty chunk of change upgrading my Racer to have those features as well; it would have been less expensive by some amount if included in an OEM package. I would have paid that premium gladly. It doesn't need more power or more size or more weight ...

As to whether I'd buy a V11/V12 Sport like the Scura or LeMans: Yes, I would... in addition to the V7 Racer. I'd like one of those with a half-fairing, LeMans V sized fuel tank, and the same ergonomics as the Racer, a little nod to fitting compact panniers for sporty touring when desired, mostly for the additional mid-range torque and ability to run longer days with a bit of wind protection to reduce fatigue.

That's what I used to have with my 'sportified' 850T and LeMans V: the slightly smaller, lighter, more tight twisties bike, and the larger, taller geared, fairing-clad long distance sport traveler. That's the range of what I want ... I could care less about "adventure touring" behemoths or overweight "full dress" tourers. What other want ... well, that's their affair. 

[JohninVT]

Well....I've owned a bunch of modern sportbikes and I find the Racer utterly underwhelming.  Sure, it's charming and lovely to look at but it's an antique.  The racer is about as related to a modern sportbike as a hippopotamus is to a mongoose.  Most of the sub 400cc sportbikes put out by the Japanese and KTM are as quick(or quicker), faster, handle and brake better... and cost half as much.  They also weigh up to 100lbs less.  Sales are a good measuring stick when judging what sportbike riders actually want.  You'll see a thousand Ninja 300 and 400's to every Racer.   Anyone riding a Racer over a New England mountain road with broken pavement and frost heaves, trying to keep up with a modern sportbike would get killed.     

The Racer is an antique and appeals to folks who like antiques or want to relive our youth.  The problem with the Racer is it doesn't have the performance to match the looks.  I think a classically styled roadster/1000S might sell better.             

[Toecutter]

John... I agree with you. I think the racer is a bit silly. The Special and the Stone claim to be nothing other than what they are, but dressing the Racer up the way they have seems kind... phony? Is that the right word here?

Mind you... the Ninja 300 is a buzzy little sewing machine that feels like it's gonna explode at highway speeds... so I'm not sure it's the best comparison, really, it's a little bike dressed up as a sportbike, itself.

[LowRyter]

the new 1100 replacement for the sports bikes sounds interesting.  Unfortunately, if they don't get it to market, I may too old to ride it.