Moto Guzzi's Future

[PJPR01]

the new 1100 replacement for the sports bikes sounds interesting.  Unfortunately, if they don't get it to market, I may too old to ride it.

Nah John...you'll be riding for at least 2 more decades easily!  Imagine a new Greenie!!  :)

[Kristian]

The V7III Racer comes across as a proper sport bike to other modern sport bike riders who also like naked bikes, since most modern sport bikes are fairing-clad little missiles.

A V7 Racer is by no means a sport bike; it masquerades as a race bike, but, has no meaningful performance differences to distinguish it from any other cooking V7. They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk; a very cute poser, in other words. But, they do look good. Moto Guzzi hasn't made a sport bike since the Sport 1100i.

Ride a Ducati Panigale or Kawasaki ZX-6R, and report back (I recently rode a Panigale 1299S, had my mind blown, and now remember what a modern sport bike is).

Kristian

[Kristian]

Well....I've owned a bunch of modern sportbikes and I find the Racer utterly underwhelming.  Sure, it's charming and lovely to look at but it's an antique.  The racer is about as related to a modern sportbike as a hippopotamus is to a mongoose.  Most of the sub 400cc sportbikes put out by the Japanese and KTM are as quick(or quicker), faster, handle and brake better... and cost half as much.  They also weigh up to 100lbs less.  Sales are a good measuring stick when judging what sportbike riders actually want.  You'll see a thousand Ninja 300 and 400's to every Racer.   Anyone riding a Racer over a New England mountain road with broken pavement and frost heaves, trying to keep up with a modern sportbike would get killed.     

The Racer is an antique and appeals to folks who like antiques or want to relive our youth.  The problem with the Racer is it doesn't have the performance to match the looks.  I think a classically styled roadster/1000S might sell better.             

Agreed. I can't really stand the things; I like regular V7s, but, not this cynicism and marketing approach behind the Racer.

[ramarren]

... You'll see a thousand Ninja 300 and 400's to every Racer.   Anyone riding a Racer over a New England mountain road with broken pavement and frost heaves, trying to keep up with a modern sportbike would get killed.     

The Racer is an antique and appeals to folks who like antiques or want to relive our youth.  The problem with the Racer is it doesn't have the performance to match the looks.  I think a classically styled roadster/1000S might sell better.             

(bolded) This is silly because they only make about a thousand Racers a year, world wide. Of course you're going to see a thousand Ninja things to every Racer ... there are simply tens of thousands of them out there.

The other point, regarding crappy pavement: That's why the Racer needs a version with better suspension. It's not the power so much as the ability for the tires to track on crappy pavement. Racer is not as powerful as my LeMans V (same as the 1000S but with a fairing) was but it's much more agile. Put a half fairing on Racer and bump it up to an 850, and I think it might put up a challenge to the LMV or 1000S on performance.

The 1000S and LMV are antiques too. Their frame dates from even before Racer's frame. A classically styled 1000S with a modern chassis wouldn't be a 1000S, and it would be every bit as much of a stylish "antique and appeals to folks who like antiques or want to relive our youth" as the Racer, if you want to make such negative noises about it. Personally, I see nothing wrong with liking these lovely old bikes for what they are, and the Racer carries the same design and memes forward.

If I wanted a Ninja, I'd have bought one. 

[ramarren]

A V7 Racer is by no means a sport bike; it masquerades as a race bike, but, has no meaningful performance differences to distinguish it from any other cooking V7. They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk; a very cute poser, in other words. But, they do look good. Moto Guzzi hasn't made a sport bike since the Sport 1100i.

Ride a Ducati Panigale or Kawasaki ZX-6R, and report back (I recently rode a Panigale 1299S, had my mind blown, and now remember what a modern sport bike is).

Seems like your criteria for a sport bike is that it's ungainly, miserably uncomfortable, and useless for anything but showing off how much material you can shave off your knee pucks. You might consider a grinding wheel.

I rode a Panigale too. Fast, sure. Hated riding it. My concept of sport bike is a "sporty, good handling bike I can go places with." A motorcycle is a motor vehicle, and if I can't use it to go places, I have no interest in it. If I want to go racing, there are NO street bikes I have any interest in whatever: then I want a race bike designed for the task.

[kingoffleece]

I never thought "Racer" meant racer but was a tribute/homage/celebration of an old school sporting motorcycle.
And, I'd tend to agree with the above post.  My Street 3, while a brilliant machine, was the bike I've cared for least in all the motorcycles I've ever been on.  Doesn't make it good-bad-or indifferent-just not for me.  Was happy to sell it after 3 years.  But then again I was very fond of my Rocket 3, so what do I know?

[kingoffleece]

Interesting discussion for sure.

[Kristian]

My concept of sport bike is a "sporty, good handling bike I can go places with."

Nope, that's a standard bike or even a modern ADV. True sport bikes are by definition compromised for most things other than speed and handling. No V7 is a sport bike (except the true original); they're standards, jacks of all trades. The Racer merely looks like it means business. Mind you, they're very cute indeed; theyr'e just nothing like a sport bike. Fun, easy to ride, friendly, usable, non-threatening.

And that is the crux of my initial point; I'd loathe for MG to focus exclusively on retro bikes sprinkled with sentimentality.

[LowRyter]

Nah John...you'll be riding for at least 2 more decades easily!  Imagine a new Greenie!!  :)

....of course we could all die of boredom waiting on any of these bikes.

[blackcat]

I know this won't happen, but they need to go back to the future with a different engine configuration and more horsepower in a lighter package. Of course it would have to be water cooled for the horse power. At the very least they will get more noticed and when they claim this is a copy of a Ducati, just roll out the above.  And of course, keep the small blocks as they sell well.

Once again, I know this won't happen.

[organfixsing]

I have been colourizing the V7 II wiring diagram and eventually noticed that the original I have (I can't remember where I got it) has no mention anywhere of Moto Guzzi. It has trademark symbols for Piaggio and Aprillia, but no Moto Guzzi. I find this a little strange? Does it point to a future direction? As they say in the classics, "Just Sayin'".
Cheers
Brian 

[ramarren]

Nope, that's a standard bike or even a modern ADV. True sport bikes are by definition compromised for most things other than speed and handling. No V7 is a sport bike (except the true original); they're standards, jacks of all trades. The Racer merely looks like it means business. Mind you, they're very cute indeed; theyr'e just nothing like a sport bike. Fun, easy to ride, friendly, usable, non-threatening.

And that is the crux of my initial point; I'd loathe for MG to focus exclusively on retro bikes sprinkled with sentimentality.

Funny. How is it that the V7 Sport is a sport bike where the V7III Racer is not, considering that the Racer has about ten more HP, far better brakes, far better suspension, handles far better, and is faster?

Your criteria is screwy.

[JohninVT]

Funny. How is it that the V7 Sport is a sport bike where the V7III Racer is not, considering that the Racer has about ten more HP, far better brakes, far better suspension, handles far better, and is faster?

Your criteria is screwy.

No amount of excuses or trying to change the definition of sportbike will turn a V7 Racer into a sportbike.  It’s a 40hp standard with uncomfortable ergonomics.  It accelerates, brakes, handles and stops just like a Stone or Special.  It’s been optimized to empty the pockets of a few dozen middle aged men and hipsters in the US each year, not for performance. 

[Kristian]

Funny. How is it that the V7 Sport is a sport bike where the V7III Racer is not, considering that the Racer has about ten more HP, far better brakes, far better suspension, handles far better, and is faster?

Your criteria is screwy.

Somehow I don't think you really know what a sport bike is. If you have ridden a Panigale, then you should understand the vast chasm between those--real sport bikes--and current V7s. The V7 Sport was the Panigale of its day.

The V7 Sport was near or at the top of the pile of fast bikes when it came out in 1971, and had significantly more power than a current V7, with 70-72 BHP. There was very little faster or sportier than a V7 Sport in 1971, and they also had a very healthy racing history. A V7 Sport would definitely see off any modern V7 in both acceleration and top speed with a real 125 MPH on offer. The current V7's design brief has nothing in common with the V7 Sport; a faint echo is all. Current V7s are nice bikes, but, are MG's entry-level vs. the V7 Sport, which was MG's top-of-the-line in '71-'74.

[ramarren]

The Panigale and motorcycles of that ilk are race replicas, not sport bikes. They look like race bikes and are useless things to parade around with and look cool on because they're too uncomfortable to go anywhere with. They're for ricky racer poseurs that want to make believe they can hang with the fast guys at the race track. Most spend most of their viable life before being discarded for the next pretty thing sitting on a trailer or doing track days.

A sport bike is a sporting motorcycle: that is, a motorcycle (a useful piece of motorized two-wheel transportation) that has been set up with a sporting riding position to improve weight distribution and handling capabilities for riders who want to ride. They're not "adventure tourers" or "sport touring" things ... those are basically big heavy camels with a racing stripe on them, sort of like the "cruiser" is a big heavy camel that has had the bags stripped off of it. Sport bikes are basically standard motorcycles that have been set up in a sporty way, much the same as sports cars are nice little sedans that have been shortened, lightened, and lowered, restricted to two seats for sporty driving.

I guess the marketing goons have done a number on the motorcycling world and divided it up into a thousand little niches to sell people like you lots of useless things that you call motorcycles. I call those "pretty toys for wealthy goofballs" ... useless toys, albeit very pretty. I buy motorcycles that are designed to be ridden, not posed with.

Moto Guzzi has always produced practical, useful, real motorcycles that can be ridden to go places with and enjoy. I'd not like to see them doing your interpretation of a sport bike: that's a waste of time and resources.

[Kev m]

What a silly argument, largely semantics on both sides.

A Miata isn't a Carrera either but I know which I'd prefer.

And a Miata would be embarrassed by a WRX or an RS, but that doesn't make a Miata any less fun.

The Racer isn't trying to be a modern sportbike, it's more a fun sporting bike made in homage to what one was one.

That said I'm told by a number who would know that the legend and power of the original V7 has grown with the telling. And though the one I rode was neat I'd still take the Racer if I were looking for such things.

No matter, as an Italian Sportster rider says with some frequency "tastes must not be discussed" and well you get the point...

[kingoffleece]

A bit harsh to call the V7 Racer "uncomfortable" and such.  That's for the rider to determine.  Therer's been guys on this forum who have stated they are quite pleased with the riding position.  Gerry has rear sets on his Stone (2015 like mine) and when I tried his bike I found them very pleasing.  And it also appears the bike sells well enough.  The V7 family of bikes generate very positive riding experience reports from the vast majority of their riders.

[Kristian]

What a silly argument, largely semantics on both sides.

A Miata isn't a Carrera either but I know which I'd prefer.

And a Miata would be embarrassed by a WRX or an RS, but that doesn't make a Miata any less fun.

That said I'm told by a number who would know that the legend and power of the original V7 has grown with the telling. And though the one I rode was neat I'd still take the Racer if I were looking for such things.

Speaking of silly arguments, a Miata is definitely not equivalent to a V7; they are true sports cars in the most hard-core sense of the word. And, I can tell you from loads of personal experience my Carrera is way more fun than the Miata we had years ago, very sweet car though that was.

Finally, magazine testing show V7 Sports is having 10+ miles per hour on current V7s in the quarter, and that 125 miles an hour was well within reach of a well tuned machine. Look it up.

[Kev m]

Speaking of silly arguments, a Miata is definitely not equivalent to a V7; they are true sports cars in the most hard-core sense of the word. And, I can tell you from loads of personal experience my Carrera is way more fun than the Miata we had years ago, very sweet car though that was.

Finally, magazine testing show V7 Sports is having 10+ miles per hour on current V7s in the quarter, and that 125 miles an hour was well within reach of a well tuned machine. Look it up.

Hard core? How? Certainly not in this metric of hp you seem to hold so dear.

[kingoffleece]

I thought a sports car was a tub, seat, pedals, roof, and side curtains-nothing more.
I don't consider my Mini drop top a sports car but a sporting car.  Same with my (gone) TR-8.  Now my buddies 356, THAT'S a sports car.
But I'd agree with kev m, it's semantics.  I'm thinking this is the conversation we'd have over a few beers and it would be fun.

[kingoffleece]

One of my tenants, who owns a high end body shop and is the only MB certified shop between Cleveland and NYC says that if it has window cranks and/or a radio it's not a sports car-so there it is.

[LowRyter]

sport bike vs sport bike


sports car vs sports cars


really? 


potato vs potato

tomato vs tomato




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is green better than blue?

ride what you want.  drive what you want.  eat what you want

[Lannis]

sport bike vs sport bike
sports car vs sports cars
really? 
potato vs potato
ride what you want.  drive what you want.  eat what you want

And talk about what you want, all day long, here on Guzzi Talk Radio.   It's what it's for.

What's a classic bike, really?   Are three-wheelers really motorcycles?    Is a Centauro a "cruiser" in any sense?   How is "Norge" REALLY pronounced?   

A detailed, intense argument on the difference between a Sport bike and a Sport-Touring bike is what makes this world go round ....

Lannis

[LowRyter]

And talk about what you want, all day long, here on Guzzi Talk Radio.   It's what it's for.

What's a classic bike, really?   Are three-wheelers really motorcycles?    Is a Centauro a "cruiser" in any sense?   How is "Norge" REALLY pronounced?   

A detailed, intense argument on the difference between a Sport bike and a Sport-Touring bike is what makes this world go round ....

Lannis

yes, the great philosophical inquiries of the universe and all existence.

And now we can argue that adventure bikes are only touring bikes dressed like enduros in drag.

[ramarren]

What's obvious to me from this thread's discussion is that Piaggio and Moto Guzzi know much more about what to do regards their future than anyone here. 

[Kristian]

Certainly not in this metric of hp you seem to hold so dear.

You have zero idea where you got that from; you're making stuff up on the fly, just pulling it out of thin air.

[JohninVT]

And talk about what you want, all day long, here on Guzzi Talk Radio.   It's what it's for.

What's a classic bike, really?   Are three-wheelers really motorcycles?    Is a Centauro a "cruiser" in any sense?   How is "Norge" REALLY pronounced?   

A detailed, intense argument on the difference between a Sport bike and a Sport-Touring bike is what makes this world go round ....

Lannis

Should we start an oil thread?   

A Racer is the motorcycle equivalent of putting a giant wing on the back of a Honda Civic. 

[Kev m]

You have zero idea where you got that from; you're making stuff up on the fly, just pulling it out of thin air.

So you're calling your posts thin air.

Ok, agreed. [emoji39]

[Lannis]

A Racer is the motorcycle equivalent of putting a giant wing on the back of a Honda Civic.

I don't know if I'd go that far ... I sort of like the Racer, and I'd hate a Honda Civic with a wing on it.

We bought a base Pontiac Firebird once, kept the 4-cylinder, but added a 5-speed and a T-top and the better suspension and a couple of sporty cosmetic cues; more like that, in my opinion.

Lannis

[arveno]

Aprilia started making money selling scooters , then , they started making big boy sport motorcycles.

I think Guzzi ( Aprilia ) is doing the same thing . They are trying to make money selling reasonable priced motorcycles ( the V7 series ) to make money to be able to expand.

Sure selling big heavy cruisers is not the key for guzzi , their best selling bikes are the small block. Probably because they appeal a broad range of riders .
I think they understood that producing big cruisers to compete with HD is not working , HD is not selling much anymore... perhaps the cruisers market is going down ?

Moto guzzi will never produce anything as sporty as the Daytona or 1100 sport series. They might going to produce something ""sportier" or "sport oriented" but nothing too extreme.

For those one that are waiting for a V twin , liquid cooled engine , final chain drive, sport motorcycle...maybe Aprilia should just re-badge the RSV1000 and call it Moto Guzzi ?

Hey that is gonna be easy and cheap , just produce a new set of stickers and engine badge and you got a new moto guzzi superbike.....