123 HP V11 Sport Unbelievable!

[Wayne Orwig]

The big secret is dyno calibration.

 :1:

[73eldorado]

 :1:

Anything is possible if you toss enough money at it,  but I wouldn't expect it tp last too long.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'll say this. If the dyno isn't bogus, it did a pretty impressive top gear roll on..

[Gliderjohn]

Here is the dyne chart on my T-3.
1,000cc kit
V-7 Sport cam
36mm round slides
Heads ported and polished
S&W valve springs
K&N filters
Although not a high performance engine it pulls well. Don't know where you would find an additional 70+ HP.

GliderJohn

[JJ]

I'll say this. If the dyno isn't bogus, it did a pretty impressive top gear roll on..

I used to have an old boss who often said:  "There is no substitute for horsepower..."

However, at the end of the day...90+ HP on this Guzzi is plenty for me... :1:

[nc43bsa]

Here is the dyne chart on my T-3.
1,000cc kit
V-7 Sport cam
36mm round slides
Heads ported and polished
S&W valve springs
K&N filters
Although not a high performance engine it pulls well. Don't know where you would find an additional 70+ HP.

GliderJohn

That's one helluva dip @ 3100.

[Rough Edge racing]

 The 1000 cc push rod gas naked frame record at Bonneville is held by a Guzzi, team Subtle Crowbar I believe...The record is 151 mph...From my experience with land speed racing ,150 MPH a naked frame bike  requires at least 100 rear wheel hp maybe a bit more with the Guzzi frontal area...I believe it's a two valve??, of course it's a racing bike and likely has a load of money into engine development..

         


     

[JJ]

The 1000 cc push rod gas naked frame record at Bonneville is held by a Guzzi, team Subtle Crowbar I believe...The record is 151 mph...From my experience with land speed racing ,150 MPH a naked frame bike  requires at least 100 rear wheel hp maybe a bit more with the Guzzi frontal area...I believe it's a two valve??, of course it's a racing bike and likely has a load of money into engine development..

         


   

"Bill Ross and the legendary Mandello Meteor!"




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[Kristian]

100% pure bullshit. These guys are professionals, no fans or exhaust vents.

[Kristian]

I still think a quality racing company with time and development could engineer a fix to all the problems that happen when you juice it up.

Problem is like the estimable Mr. Roper points out that some of the best racing engineering minds have been twiddling the Guzzi lump since the late 60s, and the limits are very well known with fully � built � bleeding � edge two valve motors never reaching more than 100-110 (relative) Dynojet WHP. 2V Guzzi engines have too many severe design limitations to reach ultra high outputs; reaching 100 WHP per liter is a stellar result for any ca. 1,000 cc, two valve, pushrod, air cooled engine in any case.

Kristian

[Chuck in Indiana]

That's a ground pounder right there.. 

[73eldorado]

Problem is like the estimable Mr. Roper points out that some of the best racing engineering minds have been twiddling the Guzzi lump since the late 60s, and the limits are very well known with fully � built � bleeding � edge two valve motors never reaching more than 100-110 (relative) Dynojet WHP. 2V Guzzi engines have too many severe design limitations to reach ultra high outputs; reaching 100 WHP per liter is a stellar result for any ca. 1,000 cc, two valve, pushrod, air cooled engine in any case.

Kristianwith

With 10 RWHP per 100cc a 1300cc motor should be able to produce 130 RWHP. With modern slipper piston technology your reciprocating weight should be the same or less. NASCAR spins their push rod engines to 9000 RPM with heavier valves than we would run in a Guzzi. So 130 HP seems plausible.

[Rough Edge racing]

With 10 RWHP per 100cc a 1300cc motor should be able to produce 130 RWHP. With modern slipper piston technology your reciprocating weight should be the same or less. NASCAR spins their push rod engines to 9000 RPM with heavier valves than we would run in a Guzzi. So 130 HP seems plausible.

   An Evo Sportster at 1350ccwith the right parts can make a reliable 120-130 rear wheel HP for a cost of about 6 grand ...
  It's a breathing limitation primarily.. not the weight of moving parts...Nascar makes about 850HP from 5700 cc's...Without any rules the engines might crowd 950 hp for short periods..Take away 12 % for RWHP....Harley XR750 race engine can get 90-95 flywheel hp...And these are not 10 percent optimistic  Dynojet power readings.. Nascar and Harley have had constant development and tuning from the best in the business with high budgets...
  New DOHC 1000 cc sport bikes make 160-200 hp with full emissions equipment and stock mufflers.....

[oldbike54]

 Yeah , but Nascar motors and XR 750's need a new crankshaft after a couple of races  Those engines run ridiculous cam profiles , and compression ratios of 14:1 requiring 110 Oct fuel . One Cup car engine costs about $70K to build , and lasts maybe 1,000 miles , and the last time I checked , an XR crank was $15K . Not practical for a production street engine .

 Dusty

[Rough Edge racing]

Yeah , but Nascar motors and XR 750's need a new crankshaft after a couple of races  Those engines run ridiculous cam profiles , and compression ratios of 14:1 requiring 110 Oct fuel . One Cup car engine costs about $70K to build , and lasts maybe 1,000 miles , and the last time I checked , an XR crank was $15K . Not practical for a production street engine .

 Dusty

  Yes it's expensive and short lived when you're at the edge ..Nascar and some drag engines have over 500 PSI valve spring pressure and open the valves to .850 inch. Can you run your Guzzi at 9000 rpm for several hours without shortening the engine life?  ..What is impressive is the NASCAR specific fuel consumption of about .35 pounds per HP per hour, that rivals Diesel engines of a lot less power..
 My Triumph land speed racers make 62 flywheel hp/650 cc's and crankshaft life is maybe 2 hours at maximum power...
 

[oldbike54]

  Yes it's expensive and short lived when you're at the edge ..Nascar and some drag engines have over 500 PSI valve spring pressure and open the valves to .850 inch. Can you run your Guzzi at 9000 rpm for several hours without shortening the engine life?  ..What is impressive is the NASCAR specific fuel consumption of about .35 pounds per HP per hour, that rivals Diesel engines of a lot less power..
 My Triumph land speed racers make 62 flywheel hp/650 cc's and crankshaft life is maybe 2 hours at maximum power...
 

 I'm not even sure those Nitro burning supercharged engines can even be completely understood in normal term 

 Nascar engines are pretty amazing , millions of dollars have been spent on flow benches getting them to breathe , and modern cam profiles are so perfect . I was recently reading about the mostly small block Chevies and Fords being used in vintage sports racers (USRRC/Can/Am) that are based on the 60's small block engines . They are now making in the neighborhood of 700 HP from 5 liters , nearly twice what they made in 1970 , all due to modern cam profiles and cylinder head port shapes . Freaky .

 Dusty

[5154guzzi]

Rough Edge,
   We got that same 973 cc Lemans 1000 up to 159mph on gas in 2011.  I`ve never seen anything close to 100 hp at the rear wheel on the Super Flo dyno we used.   Skeptical as well,  just no way to get that kind of airflow/hp without forced induction , Nitrous , or ridiculous rpm.

  Bill Ross

[Chuck in Indiana]

Rough Edge,
   We got that same 973 cc Lemans 1000 up to 159mph on gas in 2011.  I`ve never seen anything close to 100 hp at the rear wheel on the Super Flo dyno we used.   Skeptical as well,  just no way to get that kind of airflow/hp without forced induction , Nitrous , or ridiculous rpm.

  Bill Ross

I'd think that should pretty much settle it.  Hiya Bill!

[pete roper]

The laws of physics are a hard taskmaster and don't respond to bribes.

[Tusayan]

I did a little looking around but haven't been able to find really high 2V dyno numbers as produced by (dare I write his name) Charlie Rice and by other BoTT people in Europe.  I did find what is probably the benchmark Guzzi V-twin power overall in former racing glory - 140 RWHP in fairly reliable racing form, from the Raceco 4V/cylinder Daytona.

https://www.autoyas.com/XX/Unknown/1515218955450845/Raceco-UK

[Rough Edge racing]

Rough Edge,
   We got that same 973 cc Lemans 1000 up to 159mph on gas in 2011.  I`ve never seen anything close to 100 hp at the rear wheel on the Super Flo dyno we used.   Skeptical as well,  just no way to get that kind of airflow/hp without forced induction , Nitrous , or ridiculous rpm.

  Bill Ross

 What power did you see on the Superflow? I also use a Superflow dyno for testing, it's 10 percent lower than a Dynojet..

[Bulldog9]

That figure is about as legit as his approach to Engine cooling.....

[JohninVT]

   An Evo Sportster at 1350ccwith the right parts can make a reliable 120-130 rear wheel HP for a cost of about 6 grand ...
  It's a breathing limitation primarily.. not the weight of moving parts...Nascar makes about 850HP from 5700 cc's...Without any rules the engines might crowd 950 hp for short periods..Take away 12 % for RWHP....Harley XR750 race engine can get 90-95 flywheel hp...And these are not 10 percent optimistic  Dynojet power readings.. Nascar and Harley have had constant development and tuning from the best in the business with high budgets...
  New DOHC 1000 cc sport bikes make 160-200 hp with full emissions equipment and stock mufflers.....

The words Evo, 130hp and reliable don't belong in the same sentence.  Air cooled twins don't exceed 1hp(rear wheel) per cubic inch as a rule.  The flame speed of gas is a constant.  To get more power you need to either change the velocity(hemi heads, forced induction, etc) to increase the flame front or add more air.  Twins just run out of room and don't have enough valve area to remain remotely reliable at 1hp per 10cc's.  They obviously can in race applications and you're extremely knowledgeable in that area but on the street and over the long haul a 1350cc Harley putting out 130hp is a time bomb .  It will go BANG at any moment.       

[Rough Edge racing]

The words Evo, 130hp and reliable don't belong in the same sentence.  Air cooled twins don't exceed 1hp(rear wheel) per cubic inch as a rule.  The flame speed of gas is a constant.  To get more power you need to either change the velocity(hemi heads, forced induction, etc) to increase the flame front or add more air.  Twins just run out of room and don't have enough valve area to remain remotely reliable at 1hp per 10cc's.  They obviously can in race applications and you're extremely knowledgeable in that area but on the street and over the long haul a 1350cc Harley putting out 130hp is a time bomb .  It will go BANG at any moment.     

 I suggest you go the XL Forum and have a look.....Look at the speed records look at the engine builds and talk to the guys...later model Sportsters with the improved crankshafts are capable of 120 plus HP and are not a time bomb...Obviously any mass produced engine that is modified will have a shorter engine life...Not really a bang  at any moment when properly built...
 I am less knowledgeable than people give me credit for......I'm not a talented engine builder...I simply find the opponents weakness and go for the kill...The weakness was their engines were fussy and too sensitive to various factors when at the track..I built a reliable reasonably powerful engine that was more tolerant of changes in air density...Tuned on the dyno...and with no more that one jetting change comes off the trailer ,sets a new class record and we go party.....I have to give credit to my good friend who rides the bike... At 130 plus MPH, on a vibrating naked frame Triumph ,he is posting on bare steel foot pegs to get his ass slightly higher than his helmet for best airflow and speed...

[JohninVT]

I suggest you go the XL Forum and have a look.....Look at the speed records look at the engine builds and talk to the guys...later model Sportsters with the improved crankshafts are capable of 120 plus HP and are not a time bomb...Obviously any mass produced engine that is modified will have a shorter engine life...Not really a bang  at any moment when properly built...
 I am less knowledgeable than people give me credit for......I'm not a talented engine builder...I simply find the opponents weakness and go for the kill...The weakness was their engines were fussy and too sensitive to various factors when at the track..I built a reliable reasonably powerful engine that was more tolerant of changes in air density...Tuned on the dyno...and with no more that one jetting change comes off the trailer ,sets a new class record and we go party.....I have to give credit to my good friend who rides the bike... At 130 plus MPH, on a vibrating naked frame Triumph ,he is posting on bare steel foot pegs to get his ass slightly higher than his helmet for best airflow and speed...

IMHO, a motorcycle built for racing and one for street riding shouldn't be compared.  We don't compare top fuel dragsters to Honda Civics so we shouldn't with bikes either.  Street ridden Stage 3 EVO's usually put out 85-95hp, have lumpy cams and aren't happy at low revs.  They're not known to be particularly reliable.

The bike in the video has plates on it.  It doesn't sound like it has an aggressive cam, the exhaust isn't loud(they look stock) and it didn't build revs very fast as if the flywheel had been lightened.  The bike exhibits none of the clues one would look for in a high performance twin.

I know that what you're saying is correct when it comes to race engines.  I am also very confident that the bike in this video has less than 100hp and that the dyno was calibrated by a meth addled simpleton.           

[5154guzzi]

 Hey Chuck, 
   Standing invite to bench race, ride , knock back IPA`S still stands when you are back in So Cal ! 

 Rough Edge,  The Super Flo numbers were low , mid 70s to mid 80`s depending on what the set up was. I chased ignition timing, cams and cam timing, AFR`S and octane to find what the engine liked , and didn't.  Remember thinking at the time we might not be competitive ,  the big white dyno  proved otherwise.  The numbers aren`t so important as the tuning tool the dyno provides , especially where the peak numbers are at with RPM.

 In watching the video again,  that is a real nice, crisp sounding motor , it`s hard to make out the meter or gauge to the right of the HP reading,  but it looks like a tachometer,  and if so,  a very low rpm reading  ??

[Rough Edge racing]

Hey Chuck, 
   Standing invite to bench race, ride , knock back IPA`S still stands when you are back in So Cal ! 

 Rough Edge,  The Super Flo numbers were low , mid 70s to mid 80`s depending on what the set up was. I chased ignition timing, cams and cam timing, AFR`S and octane to find what the engine liked , and didn't.  Remember thinking at the time we might not be competitive ,  the big white dyno  proved otherwise.  The numbers aren`t so important as the tuning tool the dyno provides , especially where the peak numbers are at with RPM.

 In watching the video again,  that is a real nice, crisp sounding motor , it`s hard to make out the meter or gauge to the right of the HP reading,  but it looks like a tachometer,  and if so,  a very low rpm reading  ??

 Yes.... Dyno number are often over stressed...You have done a great job that's for sure. Can you post of photo of how the bike looked when it ran 159 MPH?
  By video if you mean my bike. the engine is always geared for 7000 rpm maximum in high gear. 133 mph comes at an actual 6950 rpm...I believe in my situation, the bike runs fastest at the rpm where both torque and HP are highest...

[pete roper]

Hey Chuck, 
   Standing invite to bench race, ride , knock back IPA`S still stands when you are back in So Cal ! 

 Rough Edge,  The Super Flo numbers were low , mid 70s to mid 80`s depending on what the set up was. I chased ignition timing, cams and cam timing, AFR`S and octane to find what the engine liked , and didn't.  Remember thinking at the time we might not be competitive ,  the big white dyno  proved otherwise.  The numbers aren`t so important as the tuning tool the dyno provides , especially where the peak numbers are at with RPM.

 In watching the video again,  that is a real nice, crisp sounding motor , it`s hard to make out the meter or gauge to the right of the HP reading,  but it looks like a tachometer,  and if so,  a very low rpm reading  ??

Sounds very similar to the sort of figures I saw on my little hot rod back in the day. From memory in its final roundfin form it produced 84(?) RWHP from 891cc but I think the dyno I was using was quite optimistic. Nice work Bill!

Pete

[Rough Edge racing]

IMHO, a motorcycle built for racing and one for street riding shouldn't be compared.  We don't compare top fuel dragsters to Honda Civics so we shouldn't with bikes either.  Street ridden Stage 3 EVO's usually put out 85-95hp, have lumpy cams and aren't happy at low revs.  They're not known to be particularly reliable.

The bike in the video has plates on it.  It doesn't sound like it has an aggressive cam, the exhaust isn't loud(they look stock) and it didn't build revs very fast as if the flywheel had been lightened.  The bike exhibits none of the clues one would look for in a high performance twin.

I know that what you're saying is correct when it comes to race engines.  I am also very confident that the bike in this video has less than 100hp and that the dyno was calibrated by a meth addled simpleton.           

  If you ride a bike with a "race" engine on the street and it lasts for 10,000 miles between overhauls, then it's a street engine . I don't know what videos you're watching.... Yes, 120 HP  street Sportsters ,if we talk dynos, are a reality...

[LowRyter]

IMHO, a motorcycle built for racing and one for street riding shouldn't be compared.  We don't compare top fuel dragsters to Honda Civics so we shouldn't with bikes either.  Street ridden Stage 3 EVO's usually put out 85-95hp, have lumpy cams and aren't happy at low revs.  They're not known to be particularly reliable.

The bike in the video has plates on it.  It doesn't sound like it has an aggressive cam, the exhaust isn't loud(they look stock) and it didn't build revs very fast as if the flywheel had been lightened.  The bike exhibits none of the clues one would look for in a high performance twin.

I know that what you're saying is correct when it comes to race engines.  I am also very confident that the bike in this video has less than 100hp and that the dyno was calibrated by a meth addled simpleton.           

Good point. I rode a CVO Bagger in Daytona a few years ago, it stage ++ whatever on it.  Torque-y but it shook like a jackhammer.  Just ruined the experience.  The plain jane Road Glide/ Road King was much more balanced and not too heavy.