First moto officer hurt in the new Wichita Police motor cycle unit.

[Lannis]

Lots of opinions here and everyone is entitled to them. As with most opinions they can be based on experience, training and learned knowledge or simply thrown out there.

Well, sometimes we toss out opinions, based on our limited information, to allow someone who HAS BTDT to express THEIR opinion based on actual experience.   So that would be you.

Sounds like the basic premise (that if you're riding stupid today, no amount of training or experience is going to help) is agreed by all.

My premise was that motor cops wear limited protective gear to prevent the Darth Vader effect.   Was that true when you were riding?   

And you probably weren't the only guy in your squad .... did you find that the other officers had a riding skill level well above that of the average motorcycle rider on the road?    Some folks here certainly don't think so, but I haven't seen enough of them to know .....

Lannis

[Ncdan]

Well, sometimes we toss out opinions, based on our limited information, to allow someone who HAS BTDT to express THEIR opinion based on actual experience.   So that would be you.

Sounds like the basic premise (that if you're riding stupid today, no amount of training or experience is going to help) is agreed by all.

My premise was that motor cops wear limited protective gear to prevent the Darth Vader effect.   Was that true when you were riding?   

And
you probably weren't the only guy in your squad .... did you find that the other officers had a riding skill level well above that of the average motorcycle rider on the road?    Some folks here certainly don't think so, but I haven't seen enough of them to know .....

Lannis

Good questionS Lannis. As for the equipment in my day, 1981- 85 we wore the basic traditional uniform, boots, ridding paints. We did not have leather jackets as according to my department looked too aggressive. Now the motor clothing is European style with armer.
As far as ridding ability and training, all training was precision, slow speed ridding around  cones and some off road ridding. As far as ability. I believe that ridding ability is directly related to the ability for one not to get theirselve in a position to have to attempt to conduct any fancy crash saving maneuvers. I was just blessed because many times I rode over my capabilities responded to calls. Based on the totality of my 50 years of ridding, I have narrowed it down to a simple factor, speed. Speeds higher than the surrounding conditions allow, such as traffic, road design, intersections, curves etc. can lead to disaster  regardless of a precieved ridding ability. I have also determined that one can reach a speed in which no amount of experience or ridding ability will save the ridders bacon when something goes wrong. Proof of this lies with the extremely experience road racers. These guys are at the top of the experience chain. Just watch an ISLE OF MAN race and the crashes. Yea there are some great saves and some terrible crashes:(
JMHO, ride safe and have fun!

[pete roper]

I’ve got no opinions one way or the other on what might of caused the crash or the skilllevel of the rider but surely the choice of machine for general police duties was poor? Yes I can see that big cruisers are probably just the thing for ceremonial work, escort duty in parades etc. but for everyday riding in traffic for cop duties they wouldn’t be my, or it seems most police forces, tool of choice. There are many other lighter, narrower, more agile, better handling, better braked machines out there than some bagged up land yacht!

Pete

[Lannis]

I�ve got no opinions one way or the other on what might of caused the crash or the skilllevel of the rider but surely the choice of machine for general police duties was poor? Yes I can see that big cruisers are probably just the thing for ceremonial work, escort duty in parades etc. but for everyday riding in traffic for cop duties they wouldn�t be my, or it seems most police forces, tool of choice. There are many other lighter, narrower, more agile, better handling, better braked machines out there than some bagged up land yacht!

Pete

Some towns and cities are using "Zero" electric bikes these days.   Quiet, plenty of range for a day in town, they don't use them at night so they can plug them in, they can use them on park walkways and such if they need to without causing a big ruckus, and they can outrun anything in town, including kids on dirt bikes if the police rider knows how to ride.

I suspect that the "road bike" specification hasn't changed since 1948 or so.   Harley continued to offer a hand-shift as an option on their Big Twins up through 1979, because some American cities and a lot of Mexican ones continued to specify hand-shifters for their police bikes, regardless of what sense that made. 

If it took 30 years to get away from hand shifters, it'll probably take 50 years to get away from the idea that a police bike has to look like a 1954 Harley Davidson ....

Lannis

[Ncdan]

I agree with Pete. I’m not sure why these large bikes are used in police department. A lighter bike is faster, cheaper to operate and much easier to teach someone to ride and handle in tight areas. I guess it’s a macho imagine thing, who knows

[timonbik]

It's all about image.  Why are city cops riding HD touring bikes on municipal streets?  When I was the M/C trainer for our local PD we were loaned 2 police bikes by BMW to trial, an R1100 and an F650.  I have always loved the BMW boxers and even owned an R75/5 but I was not at all impressed riding this big touring bike around town. Had to short shift it all the time and lug the engine or you would be riding around in second gear all day at city speeds. I suggested that we purchase the 650.  Agile, light, liquid cooled,  and quick around town.  Easy to guide around traffic, jump curbs all the stuff city police need to do.  But no, they bought Harleys.  The local Parks police who I also trained, listened and bought that exact bike.  Some 10 years later they are still riding it.  They don't want or need to give it up. 
Cheers, Tim

[Darren Williams]

Our suburb town has seen the cops go from Harley's to BMW R1200RT's. Cops seem to really like them much better than the Harley's (I can easily understand why with the lighter weight, better handling, more speed and overall more modern operation where shifting in click gear changes instead of clunk). They also are wearing something that is almost modular helmets that has coverage like an open-face with small chin bar. Not seeing them with the 1/2 helmets.

Most on patrol are riding around solo, only doing traffic revenue generation. They run a public riding school, annually I think, but I have heard it is more geared to the weekend cruiser rider. From my observation, they appear to be pretty good riders and I've never seen them do anything stupid or too dangerous. But I do try to be invisible to them and keep interactions to a minimum.

In news clips of Europe that I have seen, seems the Police bikes are on smaller mid-size machines, like BMW F800's or something. That makes sense to me for denser population areas. I would think a VStrom 650 would be an excellent metro police bike.

[oldbike54]

Our suburb town has seen the cops go from Harley's to BMW R1200RT's. Cops seem to really like them much better than the Harley's (I can easily understand why with the lighter weight, better handling, more speed and overall more modern operation where shifting in click gear changes instead of clunk). They also are wearing something that is almost modular helmets that has coverage like an open-face with small chin bar. Not seeing them with the 1/2 helmets.

Most on patrol are riding around solo, only doing traffic revenue generation. They run a public riding school, annually I think, but I have heard it is more geared to the weekend cruiser rider. From my observation, they appear to be pretty good riders and I've never seen them do anything stupid or too dangerous. But I do try to be invisible to them and keep interactions to a minimum.

In news clips of Europe that I have seen, seems the Police bikes are on smaller mid-size machines, like BMW F800's or something. That makes sense to me for denser population areas. I would think a VStrom 650 would be an excellent metro police bike.

 Last April I was heading West on Danforth from C's house over by you to J's house riding the Jackal . A motor officer was coming towards me and giving the biker wave . Probably a real enthusiast 

 Dusty

[Thunderbutt]

Ncdan- after 34+ years in law enforcement and five of that supervising our Field Training Unit, one thing is certain, the general public is clueless how difficult it is to operate a law enforcement vehicle.
Phase one, week one of FTO training required the recruit only to sit and observe!  It was totally overwhelming for some people.
You are constantly multi tasking.  Listen to the radio, glance at the computer, drive defensively, and try to get to your call as soon as possible. When you spend so much time behind the wheel regardless what your operating eventually you are bound to have mishaps. Fortunately our agency had/has mandatory in service pursuit driver training that also included slow speed maneuvering.  Although the number of officer involved crashes didn't decrease substantially, the damage/injuries decreased tremendously. Unfortunately it was viewed as a cost of doing business. My hat off to you sir.

[Thunderbutt]

 And it annoys me to no end when I hear/read comments regarding "revenue generation".   Guess it never occurrs that maybe the officers are just trying to get people to SLOW DOWN. 
Having to tell people their loved one wasn't coming home after being involved in a traffic crash was never one of my favorite calls.
Sorry folks, I LL get off my soapbox now.

[Tusayan]

One of the reasons I've traveled yearly or twice yearly to the Alps to ride for 20 years is to avoid being slowed down on country roads.  It is possible to get a fine for speeding on a twisty, fun Alpine road but not likely (it's never happened to me) and if it does occur it has no effect on your US license or insurance.  Just slow down in the villages, where the rules change completely and speed cameras are highly highly likely.

I've ridden for 45 years, hundreds of thousands of miles and several get-offs (most recently in 2001) but happily I've yet to be injured on a motorcycle.  One reason is good protective apparel, I rarely without full leathers.