Author Topic: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?  (Read 1320 times)

Offline Toecutter

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Opinions please.

Moving to the middle o' nowhere has been fantastic for the soul, my wallet, and my general well being... but it makes motorcycle maintenance a bit more difficult.  :wink:

I have no plans on replacing pipes on my V7 until it's necessary, I like the way it runs (with exceptions for the stutter and stall upon starting in hot weather), but beginning to wonder if it's not worth having all the necessary cables and stuff to backup my map "just in case"? It's a 6 hour haul to the nearest Guzzi service...

so... waddya figure? Worth it? Or does it make me a doomsday prepper?

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2018, 01:55:46 PM »
Either that or team up with someone who already has it and knows how to use it.
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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2018, 01:57:01 PM »
Since the application is free, and the cable is @39.00US shipped from Lonelec in London, what have you got to lose?

Plenty of reading for you to do while you wait for the cable:

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69168.0

Offline lti_57

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2018, 02:20:52 PM »
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^
                            this

 Its cheap and Its just another tool and you cant have too many tools
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Online malik

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2018, 02:29:37 PM »
And if you have it, you can access the Error Log in the ECU. It did tell me there was a problem with the lambda before I actually found the broken wire.
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Offline yogidozer

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2018, 02:59:26 PM »
oh, the good ol' days. extra jets, points and condenser



Offline Toecutter

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2018, 03:23:57 PM »
Yogi... I hear you. This is the first FI bike I've ever owned.


Offline Kiwi Dave

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2018, 03:36:27 PM »
oh, the good ol' days. extra jets, points and condenser




Time has warped your mind.  It's so much easier connecting up the laptop with the Guzzidiag cables and checking everything.  Been over forty years since I owned a bike with points, haven't missed them at all.

Offline Toecutter

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2018, 03:53:14 PM »
Meh. I disagree... I still own all those old bikes... I've replaced the ignition in some of them to electronic, sure... but... I never found 'em that big a deal. Changing jetting, all that stuff... good fun.

Offline yogidozer

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2018, 04:14:04 PM »
Time has warped your mind.  It's so much easier connecting up the laptop with the Guzzidiag cables and checking everything.  Been over forty years since I owned a bike with points, haven't missed them at all.
Laptop? Let me give you an example. My old buddy Chuck has an "antique" (sorry Chuck) convert. My opinion, one of the nicest bikes I'e had the pleasure of riding.
Anyway, we were a few hundred miles from home, in the middle of nowhere on a Sunday. His bike starts missing pretty bad.
He's ready to call a tow. I'm an old school kinda guy, easy diagnose, bad condenser. Sputtered down the road, came across a dead car junkyard, yanked a condenser out of some junk heap, tagged a longer wire to it to reach the connection, off we go, good as new.
I bet he carries a spare condenser and extra points now.
So yeah, maybe pre computer can break down more often, but yeah, you can get er going easier too.
BTW it seems the older carb./points bikes got better mileage too. If I remember correctly, his bike did really well on fuel.
Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings  :wink:

Online Ncdan

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2018, 05:02:54 PM »
Laptop? Let me give you an example. My old buddy Chuck has an "antique" (sorry Chuck) convert. My opinion, one of the nicest bikes I'e had the pleasure of riding.
Anyway, we were a few hundred miles from home, in the middle of nowhere on a Sunday. His bike starts missing pretty bad.
He's ready to call a tow. I'm an old school kinda guy, easy diagnose, bad condenser. Sputtered down the road, came across a dead car junkyard, yanked a condenser out of some junk heap, tagged a longer wire to it to reach the connection, off we go, good as new.
I bet he carries a spare condenser and extra points now.
So yeah, maybe pre computer can break down more often, but yeah, you can get er going easier too.
BTW it seems the older carb./points bikes got better mileage too. If I remember correctly, his bike did really well on fuel.
Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings  :wink:
The truth will set you free! A match book cover did the trick for setting the points and I could preset the spare plug or just eyeball it;)

Offline ITSec

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2018, 05:07:43 PM »
Even if you never intend to get deep into the esoterica, GuzziDiag is a low-cost, basic tool that should be in your garage if you have a Guzzi with a supported ECM. There is such a wealth of information available through it, and so many straightforward fixes and refinements that can be made with it, that it's the electronic equivalent of a screwdriver. Sonic screwdriver? maybe....

Just as even someone who was a hack mechanic at best in the old days would still have a file to dress their points, a modern Guzzi owner needs this tool.

And for the record, I do not miss points, carbs, jets or condensers one little bit. I had way more trouble from them than I have had from all the machines I've owned with EFI and modern electrics and fuel management.
ITSecurity
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Offline yogidozer

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2018, 06:10:01 PM »
Even if you never intend to get deep into the esoterica, GuzziDiag is a low-cost, basic tool that should be in your garage if you have a Guzzi with a supported ECM. There is such a wealth of information available through it, and so many straightforward fixes and refinements that can be made with it, that it's the electronic equivalent of a screwdriver. Sonic screwdriver? maybe....

Just as even someone who was a hack mechanic at best in the old days would still have a file to dress their points, a modern Guzzi owner needs this tool.

And for the record, I do not miss points, carbs, jets or condensers one little bit. I had way more trouble from them than I have had from all the machines I've owned with EFI and modern electrics and fuel management.
so when you stated "Just as even someone who was a hack mechanic at best" you didn't qualify?

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2018, 06:32:52 PM »
Laptop? Let me give you an example. My old buddy Chuck has an "antique" (sorry Chuck) convert. My opinion, one of the nicest bikes I'e had the pleasure of riding.
Anyway, we were a few hundred miles from home, in the middle of nowhere on a Sunday. His bike starts missing pretty bad.
He's ready to call a tow. I'm an old school kinda guy, easy diagnose, bad condenser. Sputtered down the road, came across a dead car junkyard, yanked a condenser out of some junk heap, tagged a longer wire to it to reach the connection, off we go, good as new.
I bet he carries a spare condenser and extra points now.
So yeah, maybe pre computer can break down more often, but yeah, you can get er going easier too.
BTW it seems the older carb./points bikes got better mileage too. If I remember correctly, his bike did really well on fuel.
Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings  :wink:

EFI has none of that stuff or a distributor either.  So it's a nice story, but no relevance.

  I converted my Convert to EFI in about 2004 and I've never looked back.  Nor have I made any adjustments or repairs to it since I installed it.  It just goes, and so far it has spanked all other Converts in all respects.

I think ITsec did a good job of explaining the value of guzzidiag.  For the cost it gives good information, isolates problems, aids in troubleshooting, and allows for basic tweaks.  With the other programs that make up the suite, you can replace or modify the computer mapping too, if you want to take it that level.

Another thing you can do with efi that you can't do with carbs is send your fuel problem to Beetle or other expert who can change your software to meet your expectations.  No riding to a shop and leaving it for days for a "tune up".  No more needing a hands-on/on-site mechanic.  No more fussing with jet arrays, needle settings, sunk floats, leaky gaskets, and clapped out slides.  Just plug in the computer, download the file, and go for a ride.  If you don't like it, reload your old file and it's like nothing changed.

Offline ITSec

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2018, 09:00:29 PM »
so when you stated "Just as even someone who was a hack mechanic at best" you didn't qualify?

I have to admit I consider myself a 'hack mechanic' - especially when it comes to the older stuff. I can change fluids, I can identify and diagnose some more complex problems, I can adjust valves (both screw and shim), and do other advanced maintenance. I have seen enough that I can identify things I would never try to fix myself, though I can offer that experience to others and point them to help. Heaven help me when I foolishly did things like rebuilding Webers!

That is not in the same league as what I consider a skilled mechanic or (in modern terms) technician. I know enough to know when to stop and give the job to somebody with better skills, training and experience. I'm a geek who understands what Beetle or John say about maps and making changes with software, and someone who knows how to follow the oil on the outside to where it comes from the inside. That's about all....
ITSecurity
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Offline yogidozer

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2018, 10:51:39 PM »
I'd rather not have to haul around a laptop in the event I had a breakdown, but a set of points/condenser wouldn't e a bother  :grin:

Online usedtobefast

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2018, 11:35:15 PM »
To the OP, yes do it!

And just so you know, you don't even need GuzziDiag ... just get the reader & writer software (all free).  Read your current map.  Save it and clearly name it.  Then write your new map you get from Beetle.

Compared to jetting this is amazing! 
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Offline rodekyll

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2018, 11:42:21 PM »
I doubt that anyone who used Guzzidiag-type programs would be so worried about an EFI-related breakdown that they'd be bringing their computer along to fix it.  The number of actual EFI-related breakdowns are just too small to bother.

Offline pete roper

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2018, 11:43:17 PM »
To the OP, yes do it!

And just so you know, you don't even need GuzziDiag ... just get the reader & writer software (all free).  Read your current map.  Save it and clearly name it.  Then write your new map you get from Beetle.

Compared to jetting this is amazing!

Well, you do need the Guzzidiag programme to check and recalibrate, (If needed.) the TPS and the like. Simply uploading a map may affect other tables in the ECU.

Pete

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2018, 12:28:27 AM »
Back in the dark ages I worked in auto repair shops.  One of our essential shop tools was the "scope".  It was a screen with a raster display.  You hooked it up to battery, coil, a spark plug, and if it was a really expensive one, you could also get a pollution sniffer and temperature and vacuum.  A good mechanic could use one to see spark plug gaps, high resistence in wires, bad condensors, and even low compression.  He could see timing and dwell, and even flat lobes on a distributor and sloppy cam chains.  They were great for tuning, troubleshooting, and repairing points systems and carbs.  But they were an expensive shop tool.  They weren't generally in hobby garages, and few people knew how to use them.

A laptop and guzzidiag is the same class of tool, refocused to tune and find/fix EFI issues.  In addition to helping on the ignition side, it's like having a full kit of jets, needles, slides, and ramps for fuel tuning.  It's intended for shop work, not roadside repairs.  But it's small and inexpensive enough that anyone can afford one, and it's very easy to understand.

I see another topic about '36 and '40 pumpers.  They're discussing ramp values and parts sources and volumetric testing.  I'm guessing the carbs get disassembled a few times during the guesswork. That could take a while.  The EFI analog is to hook up the computer, enter a number or download a file, and restart the bike.

Online usedtobefast

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2018, 09:44:21 AM »
Well, you do need the Guzzidiag programme to check and recalibrate, (If needed.) the TPS and the like. Simply uploading a map may affect other tables in the ECU.

Pete

Yes, I guess I was just trying to make it sound less scary.   :grin:

His first concern was having a copy of his current map "just in case" ... so cables and Reader and he's got that.  No damage or change to his moto.

Second concern was the poor running at startup ... so a decent map and writer should take care of that.  But yes, he may need Guzzidiag for TPS or checking error codes, he could have a bad sensor, etc ... but a V7 not running well at startup seemed to be a common mapping issue. 

So I'd wager a beer that read map, write good map, and he'd be happy.   :grin:

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Online JJ

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2018, 05:41:49 PM »
Either that or team up with someone who already has it and knows how to use it.

This, of course, is the easy answer!! :laugh: :grin: :wink:
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Online Ncdan

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2018, 06:10:28 PM »
Fortunately I have a friend that, when I have an issue, can adjust my map
And send it to me and Wife downloads it to the Calvin. I simply donít have the ability to look at that giant table of numbers and know how to do anything. Having a map and understanding how to make changes to fix issues are two different subjects.

Offline HarveyMushman

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2018, 06:23:20 PM »
It's free.  What bullet are you biting? 
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twowings

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Re: Should I bite the bullet and just get Guzzidiag to have it?
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2018, 07:04:15 PM »
If you just enjoy biting a bullet, let's make a contemparary Western drama and all get rich!!! Brad Pitt will play you, of course... :laugh:

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