Author Topic: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration  (Read 15591 times)

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« on: May 18, 2018, 09:42:59 PM »
By popular request. Restoration of a customer's early 3 1/2 Sport. Photos added as time allows.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/98421140@N05/albums/72157696971789835
Charlie
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'67 Sears Allstate/Puch SR250
'69 V700
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Offline Phang

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2018, 12:44:56 AM »
These photo-essay and tips are invaluable! Thanks for sharing!
2009 Griso 8V SE Tenni (Green)
2000 V11 Sport (Green)
1973 V7 Sport (Green)

Offline Phang

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2018, 02:15:13 AM »
are those 'fangs' under the rocker cover drip condensed oil right into thes funnel shape holes on the rocker arm?

Will there be any lubrication problem to the rocker arms when the engine is started after parking for a long period of time?


2009 Griso 8V SE Tenni (Green)
2000 V11 Sport (Green)
1973 V7 Sport (Green)

Offline F-22

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2018, 08:39:56 AM »
Yes, the oil pressure is only routed through the crankshaft, for the big ends and the single main plain bearing (usually replaced with a new roller bearing during a rebuild, leaves more oil pressure for the rods and works better - I think the plain bearings were used to cut costs at the factory, the very early models had standard bearings on both sides).


The heads do not get any pressurised oil. Old V35/V50 Guzzis are somewhat similar and also have those fangs for oil to condense on the valve covers (although Guzzis still have a little oil routed to the head).


I guess lubrication of the rockers is not that critical. After being warmed up, a Morini can easily work at high rpm. I've rebuilt and worked on a few Morini engines, and never seen rockers that would no longer be usable. But of course, revving a cold engine will cause wear. I hope adding some MoS2 to the oil helps with it a bit (they have a dry clutch anyway).
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 08:40:50 AM by F-22 »

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2018, 08:39:56 AM »

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2018, 08:48:21 AM »
are those 'fangs' under the rocker cover drip condensed oil right into thes funnel shape holes on the rocker arm?

Will there be any lubrication problem to the rocker arms when the engine is started after parking for a long period of time?

If one was "recommissioning" a Morini after a long period of storage, it certainly wouldn't hurt to remove a rocker cover and squirt some oil into the rockers. Of course, this would only be a small part of the work that should be done. Number one on the list would be replacing the timing belt.
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'67 Sears Allstate/Puch SR250
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2018, 12:35:03 PM »
Thanks for posting, this is great1

In a couple weeks I will be reassembling my 500 motor, this will be a great help.

I have a question on the engine case oil seals, did you install them prior to placing the cases over the crank and transmission shafts and did you fit the seal protectors as the case was being dropped over the shafts, I am not sure of the sequence.

Cheers

Jim

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2018, 01:04:30 PM »
Thanks for posting, this is great1

In a couple weeks I will be reassembling my 500 motor, this will be a great help.

I have a question on the engine case oil seals, did you install them prior to placing the cases over the crank and transmission shafts and did you fit the seal protectors as the case was being dropped over the shafts, I am not sure of the sequence.

Cheers

Jim

Seals are installed, seal protectors greased and slipped into the seals, then the right case half is slipped down over the shafts. Once it is in place, the seal protectors are removed. I wrapped a layer of clear packing tape around the shift shift splines to protect that seal as well. 
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'67 Sears Allstate/Puch SR250
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada

Offline F-22

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2018, 01:25:48 PM »
They can also be installed after the cases are bolted together. I find it easier this way, especially if you do not have the tapered shaft ends. Also one less thing to worry about when getting the cases together.

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2018, 09:49:20 PM »
Seals are installed, seal protectors greased and slipped into the seals, then the right case half is slipped down over the shafts. Once it is in place, the seal protectors are removed. I wrapped a layer of clear packing tape around the shift shift splines to protect that seal as well.

Thanks!

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2018, 10:38:36 PM »
They can also be installed after the cases are bolted together. I find it easier this way, especially if you do not have the tapered shaft ends. Also one less thing to worry about when getting the cases together.

Sure they can, but to me it's just easier to do it the way the factory manual says to do it. I didn't have the seal protectors, but it was a simple 1/2 hour enjoyable job on the lathe to make them. With them there's no worry at all.
Charlie
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Offline jas67

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2018, 08:42:20 AM »
OMG was that one a mess.   Did it have water in the engine?

Morini 3 1/2 engine parts as they arrived. by Charlie Mullendore, on Flickr


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Offline Phang

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2018, 10:39:59 AM »
I quote Charli's words

Quote
All engine internals were stored in boxes in a damp basement. :-(
2009 Griso 8V SE Tenni (Green)
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Offline F-22

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2018, 02:14:47 PM »
Sure they can, but to me it's just easier to do it the way the factory manual says to do it. I didn't have the seal protectors, but it was a simple 1/2 hour enjoyable job on the lathe to make them. With them there's no worry at all.
Unfortunately I have a really old lathe (British made, over 100 years old, with various safety/name plates in English, German and Italian - must have travelled all over Europe before it came to me). Takes too long to turn the head for a taper, so as lazy as I am, I tried assembling the engine without them. Sure enough, I've ruined the gearbox output shaft seal. But I then popped it out with the engine assembled and simply installed a new one in the assembled engine (and carefully slid it over the axle). With the tapered ends, it's okay to do it the factory way, but if you do not have them they can easily be installed on the assembled engine...

I know a person who has a really neat 80's (Croatian) lathe (high quality model, I think about 1m of work area length, for tool making, not series production), and also an 80's Swiss mill (about 0.5 or 0.8m work area, was also used for making injection mould tools). He bought them new, and are in perfect condition. He isn't quite ready to sell them yet, but he is really old (about 80). I hope he will decide to sell them once, would be a real shame if they were dumped at a scrap yard when he goes... You can do almost anything with a good mill and a lathe (even my ancient lathe has helped me countless times).
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 02:18:19 PM by F-22 »

Online huub

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2018, 07:46:52 AM »
nice pictures!
and a very clean job , how did you get the cases that clean?
i never manage completely clean cases on morini engines, even after bead blasting.

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2018, 08:34:42 AM »
nice pictures!
and a very clean job , how did you get the cases that clean?
i never manage completely clean cases on morini engines, even after bead blasting.

The customer had them vapor blasted prior to bringing them to me. Whoever did the job could have cleaned them a little better afterwards. I spent several hours digging media out of bolts holes and such - once the liquid evaporates, it dries to a near concrete hardness.
Charlie
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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2018, 09:47:27 AM »
The customer had them vapor blasted prior to bringing them to me. Whoever did the job could have cleaned them a little better afterwards. I spent several hours digging media out of bolts holes and such - once the liquid evaporates, it dries to a near concrete hardness.

ditto on flushing the parts after vapour blasting, I spend more time rinsing with hot water and then blowing out with compressed air (often several times) than cleaning, its worth it thought as the parts are like new once vapour blasted.

Looking forward to more updates :thumb:

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2018, 09:59:32 AM »
ditto on flushing the parts after vapour blasting, I spend more time rinsing with hot water and then blowing out with compressed air (often several times) than cleaning, its worth it thought as the parts are like new once vapour blasted.

Looking forward to more updates :thumb:

Probably won't be any progress until June. Several "deadlines" to meet coming up this week and next, plus I'm hoping to take an overnight trip on the Convert over the Memorial Day weekend. 
Charlie
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'67 Sears Allstate/Puch SR250
'69 V700
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'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada

Online huub

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2018, 12:43:24 PM »
The customer had them vapor blasted prior to bringing them to me. Whoever did the job could have cleaned them a little better afterwards. I spent several hours digging media out of bolts holes and such - once the liquid evaporates, it dries to a near concrete hardness.

impressive results!
worth the efford to clean them
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 12:43:59 PM by huub »

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2018, 08:59:21 AM »
More photos added to the album last night.
Charlie
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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2018, 09:54:27 AM »
fantastic workmanship  :bow: :bow: :bow:

Thanks for providing this great resource, my engine rebuild took a left turn, the new valves NLM sent me require new style matching valve spring collets (kind of a spilt O ring style recess in the valve), should get the parts next week.

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2018, 03:27:51 PM »
Great job! Seems it was really rough to begin with. I wish I converted mine to the roller bearing when I had the engine apart, but I hope it will run with a new plain bearing just fine too, as long as I replace the oil often enough...

Will the clutch cover and the outer part of the generator/chain engine cover and the valve covers be polished? It just does not look right otherwise...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 03:28:32 PM by F-22 »

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2018, 03:33:39 PM »
fantastic workmanship  :bow: :bow: :bow:

Thanks for providing this great resource, my engine rebuild took a left turn, the new valves NLM sent me require new style matching valve spring collets (kind of a spilt O ring style recess in the valve), should get the parts next week.

I remember having the "early" vs. "late" valve discussion with Stuart. If one thinks Guzzi made changes to their bikes often, they would be astounded at how often Morini made changes.  :laugh:

Will the clutch cover and the outer part of the generator/chain engine cover and the valve covers be polished? It just does not look right otherwise...

The customer doesn't want to, even though that's how it was done originally and IMO it would look much better. The arms on the brake backing plates have been vapor blasted and I those too should be polished. I'll be covering myself in black crud making them shiny.  :wink:
Charlie
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'67 Sears Allstate/Puch SR250
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2018, 03:36:01 PM »
Finally making some progress. Front engine mounting plates came back from the painter last week and my buddy Carl dropped by today to help me get the engine into the frame. We laid the engine on it's side, blocked it up level, laid the frame over it and slipped the bolts into place.

Turned it upright and tightened all of the engine mounting bolts.







Mounted the centerstand. Used the "penny trick" (except using washers) to extend the spring for installation.




Up on the centerstand, blocks under the engine, tied it down. Installed the swingarm.




Charlie
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'67 Sears Allstate/Puch SR250
'69 V700
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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2018, 05:36:32 PM »
Looking good!

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2018, 05:48:11 PM »
A few more from today.

Rear fender and chain guard installed.




The original steering damper has a "dead spot" in it's travel, so I was hoping that I could use one for a Guzzi. "Close but no cigar" not enough travel for full left lock.




Installed the airbox and rubber boots to the carbs. The right side doesn't line up too well and will need the manifold repositioned to correct this.




The manifold assembly wasn't locked in place yet, since I knew this would be an issue.




I somehow got the left side perfect though!




That's all for today.
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'67 Sears Allstate/Puch SR250
'69 V700
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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2018, 11:12:51 AM »
Charlie is there a particular sequence you follow to install the air box . rubber boots and carbs? It looks like a tight fit!

Beautiful work by the way, its going to be a gorgeous bike.

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2018, 11:28:30 AM »
Charlie is there a particular sequence you follow to install the air box . rubber boots and carbs? It looks like a tight fit!

Beautiful work by the way, its going to be a gorgeous bike.

Carbs can be on the engine (at least on the early 3 1/2) but installing the airbox might easier with them off. So, airbox first, then carbs, slip the boots onto the carbs, then rotate them up and fiddle with them until they're seated into the airbox openings. Really quite easy.

Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'67 Sears Allstate/Puch SR250
'69 V700
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'76 Convert
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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2018, 11:30:11 AM »
Thanks Charlie.

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2018, 09:57:54 PM »
Back to working on the Morini along with the V7 Sport project and a '71 police Ambo. Started on the forks this evening.

Slipped the forks into the triples and drained them.




With them secured in the triples, it's easy to remove the lower bolt and sliders.




Didn't feel like getting all greasy (again) just before I quit for the night, so installed some clean parts.


Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'67 Sears Allstate/Puch SR250
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'76 Convert
'77 Morini 3 1/2 Strada

Offline SED

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Re: 1974 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Sport restoration
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2018, 10:55:21 PM »
Nice work.  Thanks for the photos and descriptions.
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