Be you own spokesperson..(getting wired up)

[Huzo]

Ok, there's been a little bit of interest regarding building your own wire wheels.
I've only done it once on my Norge using Bellagio hubs, but if you're interested I'll tell you how to overcome the issues.
Firstly, I can only say what worked for me, but they've been on for 2 or 3 years, 90,000 k's, never had the spokes adjusted, spin true and DO NOT LEAK AIR...!
I'll post in chapters.
First you will need the unbored rims of correct size, I got mine from a mob in Dresden, I think from memory it was this mob, really nice to deal with and interested in my tool...!



They are Behr and a 1-2 pattern for the front and a 2-2 for the rear. Both spoke up to a standard pattern.

As mentioned, mine are standard Bellagio hubs and I did the rear wheel first, because I reckoned that therein lay most of the challenges. There are a couple of complications in doing the front wheel, because you cannot use Bellagio spokes 'cos they're for an 18" rim and the Norge is 17".
No you cannot roll more thread on because Guzzi use 32 TPI from memory, and I could only get 28 TPI rollers...
BASTARD...! (Just take a deep breath and buy the Griso spokes..)y

Approach your bike (Norge) from the right side and take a measurement of the edge of the rim to a fixed point, (I used the torque arm), from memory it is about an inch or so, but note it down.
Remove the rear wheel and fit the tone wheel and disc to the Bellagio hub, install the hub into the bike, do up the bolts and ensure that the tone wheel clears the sensor properly and the disc spins centrally in the caliper.
 Get this right before going any further.
Lay a straight edge across the rim edge on the stock wheel, to the opposite side and take a reading from the straight edge to the machined faces where the disc bolts to the hub and also note this down, again you will find it is about an inch, but read it carefully.
Remove the tone wheel and disc from your Bellagio hub after taking it off your bike.
Make up 3 spacers of the length you determined from your straight edge measurement to the disc mount faces and after boring them aporopriately, bolt them to the disc mounts on the disc less standard wheel in a triangular configuration, (every second hole).
Here's mine..




Clearly now if you run your straight edge across the wheel, the spacers should just touch the line from edge to opposite edge.
This is very significant so get it right..!
Now remove the spacers from the standard wheel and bolt them to your Bellagio hub and set it aside..
I'm a couple of days from home at the moment, but I'll take some shots when I get the chance...
Happy to answer questions so far.

[Huzo]

Still not home from the Oz trip. Currently parked up at Paul Brooking's place so can't post photo's, but will soldier on and post shots later.

Now, it's important to bore the wheel with the offset correct and also to have the spokes on the right angle, (ie, pointing at the correct hole in the hub.)
You see, you can't adopt a "devil may care" attitude due to the fact that the spoke nipples need to be a neat sliding fit in the holes and there's no room for mis alignment, if you mess this bit up, you can throw the whole lot in the bin...
So I'll address the offset issue first.
You'll need a jig that you can slide the hub onto, I made a triangular shape with 3 circular locating blocks to centrally locate the rim with a vertical spigot in the centre, so the hub (with the spacers attached) can sit flush on the base and in conjunction with the rim (also on the base of the jig), will be held in correct position relative to each other both radially and offset wise.
The hub must also be locked into correct position in rotational plane with respect to the rim, so that the spoke angle is correct.
You do not want the forward facing spokes on a different angle to the rearward facing ones, rotating the hub will serve to equalise these angles.
Now that the hub and rim are clamped to the jig and the spoke angles are correct, it's time to start talking about the boring business of..boring !

[Huzo]

With the rim and hub secured in the jig, I began the business of ascertaining which nipple indentation corresponded to each spoke hole in the hub.
If you take a spoke and slide it into the hub, you will see that it really only looks right when it's pointing at the correct indentation on the rim, (be careful you don't scratch the living tripe out of the nice new rim with the threaded end of the spoke).
When you reckon you've found the correct arrangement, get your permanent marker and put a "1" on the hole in the hub and the appropriate indentation on the rim, then move one hole around on the hub and repeat the process, (this will be number "2"), go all the way 'round with this process then flip it over and do the same on the other side, but USE A DIFFERENT COLOUR MARKER..!
Once that's done you can again flip it over again to the original position and re secure the whole lot back on the jig.
The correctly positioned wheel is now ready for boring.

[Huzo]

Here's the blood and guts bit..
The hole you bore, as previously mentioned, has to be pointing directly at the appropriate hole in the hub, and to this end, I made this little jigger.


The little pointer is located in the hub at number "1" and the sliding barrel with a hemispherical head, snuggles into the number "1" indentation and is locked by the set screw.
A 1/8" pilot drill with a sleeve machined to spin nicely in the barrel is used for the first hole, then the correct size hole is bored for the nipple, again with a suitable sleeve for a nice fit in the barrel.
Finally, a countersink drill with a stop spacer, is used to make a seat for the nipple chamfer, you need the stop spacer so each counterbore is the same depth.
Like this...


Bloody handy also, to have three electric drills..
(Not piss weak cordless ones...!)

[jacksonracingcomau]

Then use alpina spoke niples with o ring ?
Or did you make similar?

[Guzzi Gal]

Nice writeup Huzo! 

[Huzo]

Then use alpina spoke niples with o ring ?
Or did you make similar?

Standard Bellagio blind nipples with o rings. Fairly generic I think.

[Huzo]

Nice writeup Huzo! 

Thanks GG.
 It's a bit of a saga (as usual), like the 'bars and the pipe, but step by step it's not rocket science.
Almost there for the rear, then there's the front which has it's own (unexpected) challenges..... 

[Huzo]

When boring the holes, use kerosine on the drill and keep them sharp..
When you are about to "break out", back off the pressure and you won't have a bloody great burr on the hub side of the hole that you have to remove.
You will not be able to do all the underside ones due to the jig being in the way, but do all the ones you can and do up the spokes finger tight, then loosen your clamps and rotate the wheel, nip up the clamps and resume.
In retrospect, I could have cut away more of the jig, to facilitate access to the underside, but I got there in the end...
I've posted a picture of the device previously that I made for truing the wheel, so it's just a matter of doing that, and you're done...!
Here it is again.





Just check when you pop your rear wheel back in the bike, that the first measurement you made from the standard rim to the torque arm = that of the new wire wheel,
Remember the "track offset" BMW thread/saga/argument...?

Now, there's the front one...

[Huzo]

Well alrighty then..!
The front wheel has no offset, so when you slide your hub onto the centre spigot of the jig, it's no bloody good placing the rim on the base as we did with the rear.
You need to pack the rim "upwards" so it's centreline is the same height above the base as the that of the hub, it's a necessary part of the preamble, but again, you must get this bit correct or you'll be buying another rim 'cos the spoke angle will be wrong.
You'll see in the photo, these packers are still fitted from my job.





But let's presume you get it right..(which you will.)

It's vital that you remove the tone wheel and discs from the stock front wheel and run a vernier caliper over the distance between the two disc mounting faces, this is to ensure that when you bolt up the discs to the new wheel, you'll have the same distance from left disc to right and they'll sit centrally in the calipers, (sound familiar..?)
If you find the dimension is different, (and you will), then you'll need to machine an EQUAL amount off both faces to narrow the distance, clearly the Bellagio spacing is different than the Norge, or the discs/caliper arrangement is different.
It doesn't matter a rat's arse ultimately, because it has to fit YOUR bike, so let's pull that part to bits.
One must spin the hub on it's own races to ensure success, because if you just whack the hub in the chuck and start gouging, you WILL NOT get the two faces parallel and your discs will pulsate like one of Roper's cheap toys from Fyshwick and you'll feel it through the lever as long as your arse points towards the Earth.
Yes, I know there's are buttons/bobbins to let the disc "float" into alignment, but is it ok if you just believe me..?
So do this.

Make an axle with a centre drill in each end and slide your hub on to it.
Place a "live" centre in the headstock and "dead" centre in the tailstock with a driving plate and dog to spin the hub.
This will result in the hub spinning on it's own centres and you can then take....HALF...!!!! of the total difference off each disc mount face to reduce the spacing to required dimension, in my case I think it was 0.125" each side, but y'all will need to find what yours is.

Now if you haven't rooted the whole thing up, you will have a nice unbored rim that sits snugly in the jig, packed upwards to the same centre line as the hub.
Again, place a forward facing and rearward facing spoke through the hub and make sure they are on the same angle for each fore and aft from square.
Ascertain arbitrarily which is hole #1 and whack a spoke in and see which indentation it wants and mark it #1.
Then #2 ,3 ,4...etc
When you're all the way 'round, flip it over like before and do the other side, and for God's sake use a different colour marker as before or your head will be spinning like one of those Vibro Massagers on late nite TV.
Anyway..
.After that, back over again, lock her down, clamp the rim and hub in correct rotational position, and grab your tool and your drill.
What could possibly go wrong..?
Quite a bit actually.. but in all seriousness, if you take your time and drink plenty of beer during the job, it's amazing how courageous you can become.
BTW...
If you do happen to take a shot of yourself "grabbing your tool", please post on here for the general amusement of us sicko Antipodeans.

Good luck y'all..
Any questions ?
Next chapter, making the spacer/s for the front wheel, then that's it....

[tris]

I think our original plan from last year when you were over was best H

You give me your wire spokers in return for my 3 spokers.

None of this messing about with straight edges and drilling holes 

Still - a hell of a write up - bravo Huzo 

[Huzo]

I think our original plan from last year when you were over was best H

You give me your wire spokers in return for my 3 spokers.

None of this messing about with straight edges and drilling holes 

Still - a hell of a write up - bravo Huzo 

Look mate, I understand your stance, but what would be the fun there..?
You'd be labelled a C.S. and you wouldn't want that...!
Thing is, when you're looking at something in a jig you can do a workman like job of having a crack.
It's these bastards who build maps and that sort of thing that is a level above.
When electronics want to defy you, they just stare blankly and say...
"Piss off, I'll do what I damn well like, and there's nothing you can do about it..!)
That's the stuff that's way above me and always will be..
Hey...! Here's a thought....
Why don't we have the best of both wire wheels and 3 spokers, and do a set of 3 spoke wire wheels...?
Ya' won't see many of them..

[tris]

Coming from Mech Eng background I start with the (maybe false) assumption that I can work out anything mechanical

Most times I get there, and sometimes its a long journey but I know more at the end than I did at the beginning

Current mission (includes sparky content) is getting a solution to this PIA stepper motor that doesn't involve me shelling out 500 quid. (current thoughts include the stepper off a Ford Fiesta)

Who knows, I might even get around to building a set of wire wheels at some point - now the definitive document exists 

Tris

PS I hesitate to ask but C.S.??

[Huzo]

PS I hesitate to ask but C.S.??

PM sent

[tris]

PM read 

I did ask 

[Huzo]

PM read 

I did ask 

Hoped you would..

[Huzo]

Ok, spacers.
The last thing to do is make whatever length spacer is required for the right side wheel race and the fork slider.
What I did was.
Throw your brand new wire wheel in the bike and attach the calipers.
Make sure the pistons are well retracted back into the cylinders, this is so there's is no pressure from the pads resting on the disc/s.
Now you can slide the wheel laterally to get the discs sitting EXACTLY central in the calipers.
Take an accurate reading of the exposed portion of the axle on the right hand side from the slider to the inner race and make your spacer this length, (ignore the left side for now.)
Re- fit the front wheel with your new spacer and slide the wheel hard against it to the right and do a final check of the disc position in the caliper.
Fix it if necessary....
Now finally produce a second spacer that sits between the axle "head" and the race inner on the left side, of a suitable length to allow the head of the axle to protrude the requisite amount,
as is the standard setup.
Do everything up and go for a ride and try not to look at your reflection in shop windows......

"Bet ya' can't help yourself..

[Huzo]

Sorry there's a post script to all this..
In addition to the obvious benefit in boring your spoke holes in a jig, there's a secondary benefit.
When all your spokes are installed, prior to taking it out, do up all the nipples to a gentle finger pressure.
This will ensure that when you release it from the jig, the wheel will be within a bee's dick of being straight already.
I don't know the generally accepted method when it comes to removing "up and down" (radial) runout first and "left and right" (axial) second, or vice versa.
But I prefer the first way.

[John A]

Well done, thanks. I don't need the wire wheels right now but your write up contributes to the general knowledge of this outfit and I can use the methods on sidecar wheels later on.

[Huzo]

Well done, thanks. I don't need the wire wheels right now but your write up contributes to the general knowledge of this outfit and I can use the methods on sidecar wheels later on.

No worries John.
I don't really know whether it's worth it just for aesthetics, but for me it is and maybe it might be helpful to someone doing a resto when re manufacturing wheels with hard to get pre bored rims.