CARC Bikes Sales Failure. Why?

[Sheepdog]

All of this is making me wish I'd picked up that leftover 2012 Norge I found in Pensacola...

[rdbandkab]

I was half-joking to my wife that we'll probably pick up a "lightly used" Norge in the future and strip it down to a naked.    I wonder what kind of headlight module I could attach up there.   Probably just a bit of used Breva kit with a possible bulb upgrade..

[MotoG5]

I don't feel that the CARC bikes were a failure at all. They had a good run by Guzzi standards. Heck, every new Guzzi I have bought over the last fifty years was out of production by the time I sold it. Despite the flat tappet issue, which for me on my present 2012 NTX was not that big a deal, the 8V engine suits me just fine. I don't plan on selling the Stelvio until its time to downsize due to age/health concerns. The NTX as a true ADV my not have been the best choice but as a ready made and factory equipped touring bike its has been great. 

[ITSec]

Gee, the CARCs were such a failure I bought 3.

The Norge was such a failure, mine has gone 137,000 miles. My Stelvio is such a failure that it has only managed 17,000 miles since last September. And the Grsio is such a miserable piece of work that it has only gone 5,000 miles since the start of March.

The CARC bikes were no more a failure than any other Moto Guzzi, and any failure was not of the machine but of the marketing (lack thereof, and what there was seemed ill-conceived and poorly targeted). It didn't help that the CARC bikes' lifespan on the sales floor overlapped the most severe economic downturn in 80 years. Try selling motorcycles to people who are worried about basics; the market for all bikes was so bad that Honda skipped a year of production on the Wing.

When (and I do sincerely hope it's 'when' and not 'if') MG comes out with a new generation of CARC-like bikes, I will seriously look at them.

[jacksonracingcomau]

I think they were required to met Euro 4 standards at least for bikes sold there.  That meant abs and noise/emissions upgrades.  I suspect that's why 2017 Griso's magically showed up in the US but not in Europe.

At least one 2018 griso advertised on bikesales, new unsold with a few nos 2016�s too (Australia)
No euro 4 need here either, possibly enough made to keep bringing in for years
Maybe they don�t sell here because of fuel range � see v9 thread
Or it could be the look only a mother could love ?
Stelvios sold well I believe but nowhere near bmw or KTM
The importer from 70�s and 80�s who sold boatloads of guzzis is importer again, see what they can do
with brand, they are good at sales, took hinkley triumph to mainstream.
As itsec just said, it is all marketing, not much about the bike, see HD

[Yeahoo Whoyah]

the vast majority of the motorcycling population hardly know what a Guzzi is

:1:
Exactly!  Not a sales failure. Rather, nearly unknown.  A cult.     

[rocker59]

The original Breva 1100 was a relatively uninspired Piaggio copy of the R1150R BMW and shortly after introduction BMW introduced the R1200R that outclassed it.  The big Breva and all its direct descendants became a bit player in the market from that point on.

The Griso was an Aprillia re-pop of the Guzzi-developed Centauro concept, I think a better idea to promote Moto Guzzi as a brand than the Breva etc, but as others have mentioned the legal constraints killed it.  I suspect that Piaggio may attempt a third version of the same concept as despite BMW returning the favor and copying the Griso, Guzzi was the original and that serves the brand.

Yep...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[LBC Tenni]

In the house of Piaggio, Aprilia is the fortunate son. Moto Guzzi is the stepchild, intentionally hobbled to prevent taking too much glory from the favorite. Guzzi needs a better home where it can be allowed to thrive. A thousand curses on the house of Piaggio. Wretched bastards with their shiny little scooters.

[jdgretz]

I was told, back when it was first known that the big blocks were going away, that it was indeed a EURO 4 problem, but not in the way one would expect.  Rather, the total emissions were withing spec, but the certifying agency did not approve of how Guzzi had design their idle circuitry.  Obviously, I don't know if this is true or not, but what the hell, it's as good an answer as any other unofficial response or guess.

The biggest two issues I see are the lack of a solid, nationwide, dealer network, and no advertising.  One would think that having Billy Joel as a Guzzi fan would have been jumped on for advertising purposes, not to mention using Ewan a lot more to promote the brand.  One might consider a joint advertising campaign with both those gentlemen and their Guzzis.

*sigh*

It is what it is.  I love my Norge, but I am getting tired of fixing those stupid tabs.

jdg <-- 83,000 miles and counting on the '07 Norge (the fast red one)

[rdbandkab]

Not a sales failure. Rather, nearly unknown.  A cult.

    Mental pic of a guys in "Guzzi" shirts on the street corner trying to recruit new victims..I mean buyers.

We are the advertising and support system for Guzzi.    I think the only advertisement I had seen before my first MG purchase was a magenta t-shirt with the word GUZZI in gold..worn by a guy that didn't actually have a Moto Guzzi.   I didn't know anyone with a MG, and had never seen one up close.  How in the heck did I end up with 3 of them???   The only thing I know is that if you get one, you'll always want to have one. 

[LowRyter]

I read that MG was revamping the 1100/1200 for reintro in a couple of years.  Imagine if they can get 85hp out of that new 850, then..... 

 

[bpreynolds]

Well first, let me apologize for my labeling of the CARC bikes sales failures.  I concur, ten years is a good run especially for a small brand like Guzzi.  Let�s then call it diminishing sales.  Had they been selling in good numbers I�m sure Guzzi or Piaggio would have invested to find a way to make it work. 

Second, great responses here, really enjoying reading them.  I will say, however, many of them read as truth more for Guzzi in general then specifically just for CARC bikes.  They are good answers and ring of truth but they would seem to apply to any Moto Guzzi.  Often these answers seem generous and very sympathetic to the brand - I empathize, obviously.  Having said this, I truly and absolutely think Guzzi�s main problems are not engineering faults that led to lack of confidence in the brand (Hydro recall, flat tappets, etc.), poor dealer network, nor poor dealer support.  I even think the height of Guzzi sales back in the day was almost a perfect storm fluke that can likely never be repeated.  Yes, I love the brand but I�m outlandishly skeptical it can ever never ever return to significantly larger sales numbers. 

Rather, here�s my assessment of why Moto Guzzis have not sold.  A musical analogy that only few here will probably understand.  Here it is.  The Replacements were never going to be the Rolling Stones no matter how you cleaned them, marketed them, or sold them.  Guzzis are often reviled or in contrast, critics darlings in reviews.  They are a specific and wonderful kind of motorcycle that makes for a specific and wonderful kind of experience that appeals to a specific but rarely wonderful  kind of rider.  I would use the word niche but as all of you here well know, it�s more like a cult. 

[John Croucher]

The flat tappet fiasco poisoned the CARC well.   MG obviously didn�t learn their lesson from the Hydro motor  fiasco and chose to do a repeat.

I like my my hydro motor.  It is the best running Guzzi I have owned. 

After installing a Ram clutch in the engine this past winter, I would not own another Guzzi with out the 10 pound lighter clutch set up.  A much better running engine.

As far as carc goes, I have a Magni swingarm installed.  This is a massive improvement also for a shaft drive motorcycle.  Not Carc, but the original patent design.

My biggest problem now is I am afraid I will get pulled over by the police because of the increased performance and my abusing it. 

[PJPR01]

Good summary BP...well stated indeed!

I would really like to know what the original unit forecasts were when CARC bikes were conceived and also what the time frame for sales was estimated to be...at that time, but that may not be possible to track down. 

Who knows if it's possible to find them, but the upside of all of this, is that extremely solid, reasonable to maintain and beautifully designed bikes are available for ridiculously low prices on the secondary / tertiary market. 

Like Land Rovers, Guzzis are addictive and it's hard to have only one of them.  I'm loving my Norge, Griso and Scura, all 3 unique enough that the riding experience is very different and each one exceptionally enjoyable.   

Now if I could just find a beautiful blue Stelvio somewhere!   

[JohninVT]

I was half-joking to my wife that we'll probably pick up a "lightly used" Norge in the future and strip it down to a naked.    I wonder what kind of headlight module I could attach up there.   Probably just a bit of used Breva kit with a possible bulb upgrade..

1200 Sport and call it good.  Better suspension than the Norge, accepts all Norge accessories and they're out there cheap.

[ohiorider]

1200 Sport and call it good.  Better suspension than the Norge, accepts all Norge accessories and they're out there cheap.

..... unfortunately for me!

Bob

[Kiwi Dave]

..... unfortunately for me!

Bob

You guys should talk.

[lucian]

In hindsight, post carc era, my fondness memories will be of the introduction of the 1200 hi cam.  What a sweet motor when tuned properly. And of course a Beetle map !  I think the carc will go down as a success to those who have had the joy of experiencing one. For MG sales , not so sure. 

[willowstreetguzziguy]

NO MOTO GUZZI BIKE IS A FAILURE PERIOD.

It's the MARKETING stupid!

They are the exact opposite of Harley Davidson. Harley is BRILLIANT at knowing their customers and marketing their products. 

Either they want Moto Guzzi to fail or they are the absolute WORST at marketing their product!!!

[kingoffleece]

The motor did not qualify for EURO regulations (new) and it's not worth it to invest for a new motor in the old frame.  New motor and frame will coincide.

Look at Triumph.  To change the seating position in the new(ish) Thunderbird 1600 and 1700 the entire frame needed changing, which means a TON of other components.  And where did that get them............... ......?  New frame on the new 800's with an ungraded motor was necessary to make it fit.  Kevin Camaron detailed it well in the British magazines in the recent past.

[sbaker]

Just for reference..Griso is a current model in Australia, Thailand, India....

[kingoffleece]

Dollars to doughnuts they did the same thing Triumph did with the 1200 Trophy.  Using up parts inventory and producing a few current year badged bikes to sell in certain countries.   Same bike, different sticker.

[kingoffleece]

BTW, last year one could have purchased a "left-over build" Trophy with full 2 year factory warentee for 11,999.  2016 sticker was north of 19K.  SCREAMING deal on a really nice motorcycle.

[Nic in Western NYS]

I was half-joking to my wife that we'll probably pick up a "lightly used" Norge in the future and strip it down to a naked.    I wonder what kind of headlight module I could attach up there.   Probably just a bit of used Breva kit with a possible bulb upgrade..

There was a beautiful example of this for sale through Swap Meet -

Swap Meet / Re: FS: 2007 Psuedo Naked Norge for sale (reduced price!)
« on: November 18, 2017, 07:38:54 AM »
Quote from: catneck on November 17, 2017, 08:21:38 PM
Great trip, now at home in Oregon.
1287 trouble free miles.
Lots of attention on the way, nobody had ever seen this model before.
Tire shop service writer actually asked if the brand was Moto Guzzi..

[rdbandkab]

Saw that one...  Very interesting..
I'm thinking a later model version Norge....say 2014 or newer.
I hope MG will come out with something in that vein by the time I'm ready for a new (to me) bike.  (we just bought the 2006 Breva)

** There was a time when Speakers (very close to my location), received a Norge that was damaged "in shipping".  Jason actually did the transformation to that Norge.  If memory serves,  he created a nice silver Breva with heated grips available when I did the first 2006 black Breva 1100 purchase.

[Darren Williams]

Was the single sided swing arm an expensive piece? 60,000+ miles for me with no issues. Surprised that that part of the design is no longer. I wonder if the "replacement" being promised will incorporate the CARC part.

[JeffOlson]

I don't know that the CARC bikes were a sales failure. For Moto Guzzi, they probably sold pretty well. (No outsiders have any sales figures vs. projections, do they?)

I love my Norge (it is my second one, and I bought both new), and I think it is a shame Moto Guzzi has such a hole in its product line. Hopefully they feel the same way and really are working on a replacement for the CARC bikes...