Any fans of "Zen and the art of m/c maintenance"? I could use some here pls

[Kiwi_Roy]

I see what you mean with the figures not adding up. That's my fault Roy, I'm sorry. The coils' figures have the decimal place out  . They were reading 3,180 and 3,250 (3k+, not 31 and 32k)
 
By ports do you mean the screws into the inlet manifold Roy?
 
Having said that, I wonder if there's a way if checking leaking with the float bowl off. Any ideas, per chance? It would explain being very rich on the left, and possibly too much fuel running through, therefore the idle and very low revs might not be affected by richening or weakening via the mixture screw, and possibly the idle screw can't raise the slide enough to let adequate air in to compensate. Does that make much sense?
 

Of course I should have figured that out
3K for the coils + 5 K for the caps = 8K  so there's still 3K left
Has it got those shitty carbon leads as well?

No I meant the passageways inside the carb
I don't know much about carbs

Yes the float level might account for it, my buddy with Kawasakis has little plastic tubes he attaches to check the float levels.

[izzug otom]

HT leads and caps were the same at 5.5k Roy.

Sorry I meant about the manifold screws in relation to the manometer. I get you about the passage ways maybe blocked, but I've stripped the carbs, clewaned them thouroughly and spraayed carb cleaner through and checked every orrifice had its squirting through. However, as I'm going to take the backs off to balance, i'll strip them another time and check them against each other, in case I've missed a hole or something.

I'm just back from a 100mile ride. She;s still not behaving. Although she gets wound up really good and flying, some of the acceleration curve is flat in places. But the mixture screw on the left carb seemes to make a difference to flat spots when caning the throttle, rather than just the first 1/4 , very odd. The idle screw made a very slight difference today, though the engine probably got a good bit hotter today.

However, the hot wire, wow did it get hot, to the point where it'd burn to hold it. I nearly headed back due to it, I was half way there when I noticed, but the by fluke, realised it only gets hot with the headlights on. Also, funny things happened with my speedo too, it kept jumping from voltage to KMH, to MPH, uncontrollably too. The rear mode button did nothing to help settle it. So I don't quite know what to think about it. So that's what I'm going to do now, food and think about it. Shorting somewhere I guess. I should be able to check for voltage drain with the positive battery lead, but disconnected from the battery. I saw it on a youtube the other day. I can't feel any heat anywhere else, handlebar switches, fuses and relays etc, though I haven't been able to check much as I tried to do most of the ride in daylight.

I'll take the tank off. It's time I checked all those connections in the blocks with a m/meter for continuity, and have a go at things, look for bad earths or a short around the jumble of wires behind the improvised dash lights box.

Now I'm not sure this is anything to do with my running issues, though, but as the ignition switch wires are affected, so I need to at least erradicate the  this problem, from the maddening mess. Humph, oh well.

Thanks guys, Martin

[izzug otom]

Hi there, I've been trying to figure out why the ignition hotwired connection gets hot when the headlights are on. I've found the wiring diagam confusing, as there are two parts of the wiring which are listed with the same number "item 4". It's at the very top left of the  wiring diagram and then it's also here again just below in the area with the dash warning lamps.

Edit :- The item I'm referring to top left No.4 should read No.14, the flasher switch. Nothing to do with my problems.

http://www.guzzitek.org/schemas_electriques/gb/1100/1100California_Carbu_1994.gif

I did wonder if it was the spade connected hot wire I have in place of the ignition switch, but I guess I can rule that out as it only gets hot with the lights on. I can't for the life of me work out where the fault might lie regarding the wire getting hot I can't find anything obvious. I'm not really sure this can haave anything to do with the running of te engine, as I have the same running issues with lights on or off.

The speedo going nutz with the mode setting is a new one, it's the first time for that, which continued faulting when the lights were switched off.

I'm very confused by it all at the moment, I seem to be fighting two issues here and not really sure if they could be connected somehow.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Martin

[Old Jock]

Hi there, I've been trying to figure out why the ignition hotwired connection gets hot when the headlights are on. I've found the wiring diagam confusing, as there are two parts of the wiring which are listed with the same number "item 4". It's at the very top left of the  wiring diagram and then it's also here again just below in the area with the dash warning lamps.

Edit :- The item I'm referring to top left No.4 should read No.14, the flasher switch. Nothing to do with my problems.

http://www.guzzitek.org/schemas_electriques/gb/1100/1100California_Carbu_1994.gif

I did wonder if it was the spade connected hot wire I have in place of the ignition switch, but I guess I can rule that out as it only gets hot with the lights on. I can't for the life of me work out where the fault might lie regarding the wire getting hot I can't find anything obvious. I'm not really sure this can haave anything to do with the running of te engine, as I have the same running issues with lights on or off.

Not quite sure if I follow Martin, but as to your hot wired connection getting hot with the lights on.

I haven't spent to much time on it and could have it wrong, but are we talking with the engine running or just with the ignition switch (spade) connected and the engine stationary?

Looking at the diagram and it's the same for a lot of Tontis, the power is taken from the battery down to the starter, black wire, 36, the connection is commoned up there to two reds one to Reg/Rec one to the ignition switch terminal 33, so with the engine off all power flows through the ignition switch before going to the fuse box on terminal 75/?? (cannot make it out) I'm wondering if your wire getting hot is simply because you are pulling more current.

As stated before a wire getting hot means it's CSA is not sufficient for the current it's being required to carry, although the photo you posted looked ok to me, I cannot tell for sure. It could be dirty/corroded connections also. It's not a short otherwise the fuse would blow.

Check the Molex and make sure all your fuse box and fuse connections are clean and tight

When the engine is running at a bit above idle the load should get taken off the ignition switch by the generator

That's the way I'm reading it, Roy will possibly chime in to confirm/deny my hypothesis

John

[Kiwi_Roy]

I agree John, must be a bad connection in the spade connectors, the wire looks to be beefy enough
https://ibb.co/cZrX9y
This must be causing Low Voltage on the ignition wouldn't you say?

IO, you need to fix that switch, I'm sure the flakey Voltage is causing your speedo to change gears as well
Heat is Current squared x Resistance

[Old Jock]

Yes Roy I concur there is something going on with that feed through the ignition

As Roy states this will lead to Volts drop and the hotter the wire the worse it gets, its a downward spiral

If the volts drop is bad it can lead to all sorts of mayhem with the electrics and ultimately the running of the bike, including your dash and God knows what it's doing with the Digiplex.

I think the best plan is fix that then move on from there, at best it's adding to your problems.

Eliminate it and then see how the bike is behaving.

John

[izzug otom]

Not quite sure if I follow Martin, but as to your hot wired connection getting hot with the lights on.

I haven't spent to much time on it and could have it wrong, but are we talking with the engine running or just with the ignition switch (spade) connected and the engine stationary?

I'm wondering if your wire getting hot is simply because you are pulling more current.

John

Yes John, with the engine on or off, when the spade (ign switch) is connected and headlights on it heats up.

I don't really understand what could cause "pulling more current", could you explain?

Sorry I really struggle with electricity, I can read the wire colours and trace them, but beyond that I have very little understanding of what they actually do, other than knowing the very basics, such as live feeds and earths   :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu

I agree John, must be a bad connection in the spade connectors, the wire looks to be beefy enough
https://ibb.co/cZrX9y
This must be causing Low Voltage on the ignition wouldn't you say?

IO, you need to fix that switch, I'm sure the flakey Voltage is causing your speedo to change gears as well
Heat is Current squared x Resistance

Do you mean fix the connecting two wires to something better than these spade connectors Roy?

I can't get over the price of a Guzzi ignition switch, even second hand, my funds are low for the time being, hence the spade connection.


Thanks for bearing with me on this, I'm in a bit of a spin, and I'm probably not as focussed as I could be, despite trying, as my parent's suddenly made request to be moved into a care home a few days ago, so my 2 bros and I have been busy with that....... just when I could really do with my bike being reliable, as they live 45 miles away.

Cheers, Martin

[izzug otom]

When it comes to replacing my spade connectors with a switch, are generic key ignition switches such as this suitable guys?

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/LOVELIFEAST-Stainless-Ignition-Button-Durable/dp/B019I06XS0/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1531175509&sr=1-2-fkmr1&keywords=motorbike+12v+ignition+key+switch

Thanks, Mart

[Kiwi_Roy]

Update
Yes that switch looks ok is the hole in dash 19mm?
Replace both the crimp connectors with new ones

Read my comment at bottom regarding possible short to chassis


Earlier
The ignition probably draws (pulls) about 3 Amps
The headlight. say 60 Watt bulb draws (pulls) 5 Amps
So with the lights on you are "Pulling more current" than with just the motor running
You have a bad connection with the arrangement you have, that's why it's getting hot, it's also dropping the Voltage downstream and playing havoc with your electronics.

I suggest finding a 10 Amp automotive toggle switch until you can find another ignition, it will be just as secure.

BTW
If you accidentally short the spade connector to chassis you can easily get 100 or more Amps that will burn the wire up, I like to add a 40 Amp in-line "Main fuse" where it leaves the battery or in this case the starter terminal.
If you connect the two wires at the switch you could just use the out of sight fuse I suggest as a security device

[izzug otom]

Update
Yes that switch looks ok is the hole in dash 19mm?
Replace both the crimp connectors with new ones

Read my comment at bottom regarding possible short to chassis


Earlier
The ignition probably draws (pulls) about 3 Amps
The headlight. say 60 Watt bulb draws (pulls) 5 Amps
So with the lights on you are "Pulling more current" than with just the motor running
You have a bad connection with the arrangement you have, that's why it's getting hot, it's also dropping the Voltage downstream and playing havoc with your electronics.

I suggest finding a 10 Amp automotive toggle switch until you can find another ignition, it will be just as secure.

BTW
If you accidentally short the spade connector to chassis you can easily get 100 or more Amps that will burn the wire up, I like to add a 40 Amp in-line "Main fuse" where it leaves the battery or in this case the starter terminal.
If you connect the two wires at the switch you could just use the out of sight fuse I suggest as a security device

Thanks Roy and John.

That gives me a bit of a better understanding of things

Ok so tmro, firstly I'll fit new spade connectors to the two red wires, and see if it makes a difference. (I have wire brushed them).

Then order an ignition with the correct diameter fit for the dash. I've just found a second hand guzzi unit for about £15 with 6 months g'tee, or brand new for £30, so not as bad as I thought. I'll order one or the other tmro mornin, and should arrive the following day.

I'll also order a 40amp inline fuse and do as you suggest there, thanks.

Do you mean to permanently connect the switch wires Roy, and use the hidden fuse effectively as the switch, or do you mean just for an added precaution? I'm aware that may be a stupid question 

Yes I've accidentally caught the live spade to the dash housing, the crackle and sparks have always ensured it's been the for briefest of moments though. I'll check the positive all the way back and see if there's any chaffing on the wire anywhere, or other possible shorting to chassis.

Along with that I'll check all the molex connectors, and the wires and connections to the relays and fuses. They all seem tight to the touch, but I'll remove the block from the bike and disconnect and clean up each individual connection.

Thanks again guys, I'll report back my findings ASAP.

[Old Jock]

Hi Martin

Roy will chime in but I'm in total agreement with the fuse its a very good idea.

The fuse is simply there as a protective device and should be installed as close after the battery as practicable.

Probably in this case assuming the wiring diagram is correct, on the red wire after it leaves the starter terminals and heads up towards the dash. Place an in line type fuse down near the starter, where it's convenient to get to but not subject to splashing road grime etc:

Something like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STANDARD-CAR-AUTO-BIKE-BOAT-INLINE-BLADE-FUSE-HOLDER-12-VOLT-30-AMP-SPLASHPROOF/282568763817?epid=23017011962&hash=item41ca6929a9:g:V~IAAOSwlXhZZipJ

Fuses only protect faults occurring upstream (obviously) so you want it as near to the battery as you can to provide maximum circuit protection

The ignition switch should be used to stop/start the bike (or make/break that circuit), the fuse is only there for protection

 Hope that helps a little

John

[Kiwi_Roy]

As a sparky I'm appalled by the way Guzzi ran so much un-fused wiring direct from the battery on the older bikes.
Your bike has a red wire from the starter terminal all the way to ignition switch and back to the fuse block. If this was to touch the chassis along the way it would be red hot in seconds melting the insulation off any other wire in the loom it touches to make a dreadful mess.
John is right if you add a 40 Amp fuse at the starter, or you might like to combine it with the other red wire that goes from the battery to headlight relay, just one fuse at battery or  starter, it should never blow but it makes a convenient way of disconnecting the battery.
I think I would leave the wire from the regulator as is in this case.
I added this "Main fuse" to several older Guzzis I have owned.
 
The large wire from the battery to the starter is also un-fused, that's ok it is large enough that if it gets shorted the battery will be drained before it can do much harm.

BTW, Guzzi have a history of grounding the battery to the steel frame or some other unreliable point, I would make sure it's connected to a gearbox bolt or at least clean and grease the connection point.

[izzug otom]

Thanks guys, I've ordered a new Guzzi ignition key switch, should arrive on Thursday. In the meantime I'm going to change the spade connectors already in place for new ones and see if I can get any where with it.

I'm just in the process of cleaning all the connecions and checking they're tight, also checking each one for continuity. I haven't found anything a miss so far. I'm assuming the likely suspects are the ignition and lighting circuits? Is there an effective way that I can test the handlebar kill switch, I guess that's another possibility.

It'd be easier if I could remove the whole fuse/relay block from the frame, but one of the two bolts holding it to the bike is really difficult to get to, the other side being right up against the air filter box. I could get it off, but I'd never be able to hold the nut in place again for bolting back up again. If there's one place for having a fixed nut it's surely here, doh!

The lights issue heating the wires up isn't an intermittent issue, is there a m/meter test I can do to try and better track down the fault?

I'm looking to buy an inline fuse holder from Amazon prime (next day delivery), but they all seem to be 16 AWG (I don't understand the AWG numbers, wire guage rating?) 30amp maximum current rating, I can't find a 40amp one. Will a 30amp suffice, or do I need to get a 40amp fitted Roy.

Yeah Roy, my old Nevada suffered a meltdown in the wiring loom, fusing many wires into a big gloopy mess. I had the bike totally rewired after that, so yes, thanks I can see the sense in the fuse shortly after leaving the starter, and it seems nutz that Guzzi don't have that as standard, it's not rocket science even for and electrical newbie like myself. I'm assuming this isn't anything to do with the issues I'm facing, but a precaution against further, more serious damage?

"I think I would leave the wire from the regulator as is in this case." However I don't understand why the live running to the reg/rect is any less of a danger. Is it because it doesn't interfere with the general wiring of the bike?

"BTW, Guzzi have a history of grounding the battery to the steel frame or some other unreliable point, I would make sure it's connected to a gearbox bolt or at least clean and grease the connection point." It is earthed to the frame Roy, the same connection as the digiplex earth, and now a direct earth from the Reg/Rect, although I'm not sure the wire gauge is suitably heavy enough, I ordered it online and obviously got it wrong. I'll order some more, or pick some up from a local car maintenance shop and replace. The original reg/rect earth is still in place though. I've given the surface of the frame and all connections a very thorough wire brushing, and smeared them with copper grease. I'll definitely consider earthing to the gearbox bolt once I've got the issues in hand sorted.

Your support here is very much appreciated. I'll get back with any progress ASAP.

Cheers, Mart

[Kiwi_Roy]

Martin,
         I'm not convinced you have a fault with your lighting, it seems more like the normal current is causing the heat due to resistance in the contact between the 2 spade connectors, if there was no resistance you would get no heat.
With the light On you probably have double the current of without light but the heat generated is a square relationship

The 30Amp fuse and 16 gauge wire will be fine, the table I have suggests 16 Gauge is ok for about 2 feet at 30 Amps, your normal current will only be 10 or less. If you get an accidental short the fuse will save you from the Nevada mess.

I made a mistake before in saying the other red wire feeds the light relay, it actually goes to the bottom fuse which I think has something to do with the 4 way flasher switch, you decide if you want to include it in the new fuse.

Some of the earlier Guzzis used the pointy European fuses, if you bike has those it's a good idea to polish up the ends and spend some time tightening up all the connections. I think Mr Pirsig would approve.

I suggested leaving the regulator because the battery clamps the  generator Voltage down if it were connected with the ignition to the fuse and the fuse were to blow the Voltage could easily spike to 60 or more, also you have the same charge setup as the VII series bikes, they are famous for burning up the 30 Amp charge fuse where fitted again due to poor contact between the fuse and fuse-holder the fuse plastic melts due to heat, the fuse doesn't blow, I suspect charging spikes may be over 40 Amps.

[izzug otom]

Hi guys, the more I look the more dumbfounded I become, but I'm trying to get to grips with it.

Martin,
         I'm not convinced you have a fault with your lighting, it seems more like the normal current is causing the heat due to resistance in the contact between the 2 spade connectors, if there was no resistance you would get no heat.
With the light On you probably have double the current of without light but the heat generated is a square relationship

Ok Roy, I get you there. I've removed the spade connectors.  I opened the can of worms and see that I've made (a very untidy) link between wires here, and the short link I've made from that connection to the spade connecting the ignition is significantly narrower guage than the original Guzzi wire. I don't know if that in itself is an issue. There is plenty of spare length of the original Guzzi mains wire to take a section out and use that instead of the narrow guage piece now in use. Problem is I've run out of large crimp connectors to connect it all back up, and with them being beefy wires it will need a large one to hold them. Are these crimp connectors a good idea generally, or am I better to use an alternative. I did check for resistanceacrossthe spade connection and the undidy conection with m/meter but I couldn't detect any.

The 30Amp fuse and 16 gauge wire will be fine, the table I have suggests 16 Gauge is ok for about 2 feet at 30 Amps, your normal current will only be 10 or less. If you get an accidental short the fuse will save you from the Nevada mess

Some of the earlier Guzzis used the pointy European fuses, if you bike has those it's a good idea to polish up the ends and spend some time tightening up all the connections. I think Mr Pirsig would approve.

Cool, I'll get the 30amp ordered pronto.

This one uses 'blade' fuses. ............ I dare say Mr Pirsig would be quite disparaging of my ability. 

I suggested leaving the regulator because the battery clamps the  generator Voltage down if it were connected with the ignition to the fuse and the fuse were to blow the Voltage could easily spike to 60 or more, also you have the same charge setup as the VII series bikes, they are famous for burning up the 30 Amp charge fuse where fitted again due to poor contact between the fuse and fuse-holder the fuse plastic melts due to heat, the fuse doesn't blow, I suspect charging spikes may be over 40 Amps.

I knew there'd be good reason, thanks. 

How are the wires connected to the fuse and relay block. They all seem tight eough on the tug test, is there any other way I can test these contacts. Like are they spade connectors that I can pullout? I didn't want to risk justyanking them before I asked.



Also these Molex connectors. How can we test these, the probes of my multi meter don't seem to make any contact here. Is it just a matterof pulling them to give visual inspection, plus tugging on the wires to seek anything loose?


I don't seem to have got very far I'm afraid.

I've had the battery disconnected whilst fiddling around so I'll connect that back up and old style twist the two ignition switch wires together, switch the lights on and see if it still gets hot.

Cheers, Mart

[izzug otom]

It seems more like the normal current is causing the heat due to resistance in the contact between the 2 spade connectors, if there was no resistance you would get no heat.
With the light On you probably have double the current of without light but the heat generated is a square relationship

Absolutely right guys. A simple twist of the wires and there's no heat when the lights are switched on. 

I figured spade connectors are pretty much standard, and despite wire brushing them and making sure it's a tight fit, I can see this one has failed. Would this most likely be due lack of connectivity? I tried to read it for resistance with the m/meter but got no reading....... sorry, just trying to understand things properly as I go. 

I've checked the best I can with visual and tug tests on the wiring connections at the fuse/relay block and the molex multi connectors. I'll put the tank etc back on later today and see if the spade connector is responsible for the poor running of the bike.

Do you know if there's much chance this may have caused damage to the digiplex unit itself?

The other thing I've just noticed which I find very odd is that, on the wiring diagram it shows a yellow and black wire exiting from a '-' terminal from the Rev Counter/Rev Counter Bulb (Diagram item No.5), into a molex connector , then all the way to a connection in the digiplex.

I removed the rev counter ages ago, without realising a wire from it was hooked up to the digiplex. This was done a long time before any of the current problems were apparent, but I assume this must have a bearing on the digiplexes workings somehow of course, why else would it be there. I just capped the ends off with insulating tape.

Have you any ideas on that guys? Or what I should hook it up to? It looks like an earth as far as I can make out, but why that would run to the digiplex leaves me perplexed or digiperplexed. 

Thanks, Mart

[Old Jock]

Full marks to you Martin for your thoroughness

IMHO any poor connections or/and thinner gauge (or CSA if you prefer) is a big deal and will introduce resistance and therefore heat............... .Bad!!!

The negative connection from Digiplex to rev counter is most likely a pulsed negative to provide a drive for the rev counter. If it's not used just insulate it and tuck it out the way.

I don't think you will have done any damage to the Digiplex, I cannot be certain but don't over think this or get too concerned.

The normal method to connect the wires on the loom are crimp connectors, now there are crimps & there are crimps...........So rry, what I am trying to tell you is that crimping a connector is a good way to obtain a low resistance connection (what you want). IF it's done correctly, personally I am not a big fan of the insulated type shown in your photo. Perhaps it's just me but I have had way more dodgy connections over the years with them than with the non-insulated type, to which a sleeve is slipped on after the connection has been made.

Next what are you using to crimp them on? Please do not say pliers, the most common type used are the single crimp multi pliers, something like these



Better to purchase a proper tool, ideally a ratchet type but if cost is a limiting factor something like this type is very good and I frequently use that sort of tool

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electrical-Terminal-Crimp-Plier-Crimper-Wire-Stripper-Crimping-Tool-22-12-AWG-/283049297988

Just to add the the tools for insualted and non-insulated connectors are different.

Don't get too hung up on resistance checking, just make sure the terminal is secure and clean and the fit is tight

I don't want to start a discourse on other types of connections, the most common other way to connect wires is twisting and soldering, soldering has it downsides too, the solder connection is rigid and therefore more brittle and prone to breaking. However if used on a straight section where the wire is properly supported it works a treat.

Finally I also like all the Posi products, simple and effective the downside is they are a bit large, so if you only have one connection to make then they are great, but multiple connections in a tight space less so.

http://www.posi-products.com/index.html

You can get them from E-Bay or Amazon

A good rule with wiring is if in doubt go up a size and the wire I use is thinwall, this stuff is way superior to the stuff you'll get down the corner autoshop

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/70/category/114

On that topic Auto Electrical Supplies is where I get most of my stuff, price and range is pretty good

Finally rather than use electrical tape purchase some shrink sleeve and use that, better properties and no icky mess later on down the line and will not come unfurl and cause you grief later

Did I answer all the concerns?

Roy will be on later to confirm or confound my answer (and mark me, I'm aiming for B+ but we shall see)

John

[Kiwi_Roy]

You have seen what happens with a bad electrical joint, it gets hot. If you can why not remove the short tails you have added and terminate the original wires directly on the new switch with the appropriate connectors. 
If the original wires are too short you could extend them even with a short length of smaller gauge. I’m not familiar with how they rate wire in your part of the world but a suitable metric wire would be about 1.3 mm square(16 AWG) or greater

As John says, there are crimps and there are crimps
Insulated crimps are ok if they are done right, I prefer the sort of crimp tool that puts a significant dent in the rear of the connector not the ones that just make it oval shaped, if it’s anywhere damp I will dip the wires in Vaseline first so they don’t corrode inside the connector. I may be wrong but the wires you are holding look discoloured, perhaps that is where the heat was coming from.
https://www.amazon.ca/4-Inch-Crimping-Cutting-Insulated-Non-Terminals/dp/B0006M6Y5M?th=1&psc=1&source=googleshopping&locale=en-CA&tag=googcana-20&ref=pd_sl_7sr4hytskg_e   Unless you are an electrician it’s hard to justify the expense.

I asked about your fuse block, my California II had the European type that sat between a couple of brass clips, they are awful  IMHO yours look like ATC blade type fuses, certainly well oiled LOL, I don’t think you will have a problem with those.
The contacts are removable, it’s just figuring out how and which special tool to use.

You probably won’t be able to measure the resistance with a multimeter, the way to measure joint resistance is to pass a known current through it and measure the Voltage drop and then calculate using Ohm’s law, but what’s the point best to just fix it.

[izzug otom]

Hey thanks John.

I have a couple of pairs of crimping pliers, for both insulated and non insulated, as shown in your picture, except red handles.

I've ordered these 3.9mm bullet connectors with waterproof covers, I assume my crimping pliers will not work affectively with these then?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B072V3S7HH/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_dp_1

They should arrive today between 6pm and 10pm.

I haven't tried my bike yet of course to see if it's helped with my running issues, but I've got my fingers crossed that this has been the issue. As soon as I'm able to connect it up, hopefully this evening, I'll give it a go and report back.

Whoops, I thought I'd posted this ages ago, sorry. The bullet connectors have arrived, they're not very beefy though. My inline fuse holder and my Guzzi ignition switch should arrive tmro though, so I'll hang on til then and fit the the new ignition.

Cheers for now, Mart

[izzug otom]

You have seen what happens with a bad electrical joint, it gets hot. If you can why not remove the short tails you have added and terminate the original wires directly on the new switch with the appropriate connectors. 
If the original wires are too short you could extend them even with a short length of smaller gauge. I�m not familiar with how they rate wire in your part of the world but a suitable metric wire would be about 1.3 mm square(16 AWG) or greater

As John says, there are crimps and there are crimps
Insulated crimps are ok if they are done right, I prefer the sort of crimp tool that puts a significant dent in the rear of the connector not the ones that just make it oval shaped, if it�s anywhere damp I will dip the wires in Vaseline first so they don�t corrode inside the connector. I may be wrong but the wires you are holding look discoloured, perhaps that is where the heat was coming from.
https://www.amazon.ca/4-Inch-Crimping-Cutting-Insulated-Non-Terminals/dp/B0006M6Y5M?th=1&psc=1&source=googleshopping&locale=en-CA&tag=googcana-20&ref=pd_sl_7sr4hytskg_e   Unless you are an electrician it�s hard to justify the expense.

I asked about your fuse block, my California II had the European type that sat between a couple of brass clips, they are awful  IMHO yours look like ATC blade type fuses, certainly well oiled LOL, I don�t think you will have a problem with those.
The contacts are removable, it�s just figuring out how and which special tool to use.

You probably won�t be able to measure the resistance with a multimeter, the way to measure joint resistance is to pass a known current through it and measure the Voltage drop and then calculate using Ohm�s law, but what�s the point best to just fix it.

Thanks Roy.

I thought some of that was original wiring guys, but I remember what I did, it's a bit of a bodge job, no wonder I wanted to forget it, lol, but I'm afraid the wires are all too short, they were cut by the toerags that stole her from the front of my house. I'll have no alternative but to add short extentions with the waterproof, non insulated bullet connectors that came through today.

I'll be sure to coat them in vasolene, or would copper grease work ok for this application Roy?

Yes, the wiring I used to extend the 4 ignition wires, is some old wire, I don't know where I got it, or when. I think some of the discolouring is from thew white'ish grey build up from the corroding alloy of my makeshift dash box. You can see it looks a bit of a mess in there, no doubt worse for not having the ignition barrel hole plugged. I'll give it a good squirt of WD40 when I put it back together, and yes I'll replace all of the tails that are currently in place, with fresh ones, hopefully to a much better standard, ahem!

Here are the ignition wires, Red, Brown, Green and White as per the wiring diagram, and I've used the same insulated crimp connectors to extend them all with the 4 chunky Red wires.


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I don't like the ignition key set up so there's a middle 'ign off' position and then another notch anticlockwise leaves it 'ign off' but with 'side lights on' ............ doh, flat batteries! How would I connect the wiring to avoid this? Would I be right to assume it's by moving the green wire to the brown wire terminal of the ignition switch?
http://www.guzzitek.org/schemas_electriques/gb/1100/1100California_Carbu_1994.gif

I kinda hope I don't have to do that much electrics that it's worth me buying a $44 worth of criping pliers  I have a couple of sets like the ones John posted a pic of, one set are quite good quality, the others are terrible. There are cheap crimp pliers and there are cheap crimp pliers too  .

I'm eager to find out if this has solved my running issues.

Cheers, Mart

[izzug otom]

Next what are you using to crimp them on? Please do not say pliers, the most common type used are the single crimp multi pliers, something like these



Better to purchase a proper tool, ideally a ratchet type but if cost is a limiting factor something like this type is very good and I frequently use that sort of tool

Just to add the the tools for insualted and non-insulated connectors are different.
John

Ah, so I think I misunderstood, you John. Are you saying the crimping pliers in the photo on your above post (the blue Wickes one) are not really up to doing an adequate job?

I'll have to see what's available today locally if so.

Thanks, Mart

[Old Jock]

That type in my experience Martin never do a very good job.

They are intended for use on insulated crimps and simply squeeze the terminal, this means you need to use them twice to get a proper termination. Unless you have very strong arms it's also very easy to not apply enough pressure.

As Roy stated the best type fold and bite the terminal lugs into the wire. The very rear of the terminal is then also folded into the insulation.

The terminals they are used on is the bare metal type, remember to slip the insulated hood onto the wire first, if I had a pound for every time I forgot to do that I'd be a wealthy man

The type I referenced in the E-Bay link, have a force multiplier action and will apply a lot more force onto the terminal to ensure the ends bite into the wire. I haven't used that specific pair but I have a couple of tools that look identical and they have served me reasonably well

That's just my experience, the price of decent termination tools has dropped by a huge amount and if you plan to do any wiring on anything it's worth shelling out the extra to get a decent tool

John

[izzug otom]

Thanks John, yeah, I've done similar things to not puttig the sleeve on first lol.

I'm going to have to make do with the pliers I'm afraid, at least for now. I do always double crimp them and at slightly different angles, so I'll do the very best I can to get them tight as.

The local auto shop was crap, the wire looked crappy, didn't know the guages and it all looked very thin.

The wire I got from AES is this spec, but looks quite thin to me, but it says 2.0mm squared, which is considerably thicker than the 1.3mm squared as the bare minimum outlined by Roy above.Thin Wall Cable  - 010703 28/0.30, 2.0mm�, 25.0A - cable OD 2.7mm Red

The other alternative is that when I ordered the inline fuse holder, I actually got 5 of them. They were the only 30amp rated ones with AWG14, so I could cut the 4 tails required off of them.

Is the spec above ok for the tails? Or should I go with the spare inline fuse wires?

I only have insulated spade connectors to attach to the ignition switch posts, although they'll be easy to switch for better ones, and to be honest all the dash lights could do with being replaced.

So is it the Thin Wall Cable  - 010703 28/0.30, 2.0mm squared, 25.0A - cable OD 2.7mm Red, or the 14AWG tails from the spare inline fuse holders?

Thanks guys.

[izzug otom]

Feck me it is fiddly trying to get those crimping pliers to work withthe non insulated connectors, for sure, I see what you mean there. I think I've got them good and tight though. I've fitted the connectors to the bike end of the wiring, so I'm indoors making the extention tails. I'll go with the 14AGW cable that's on a spare inline fuse holder for the main feed in and the other heavier brown ignition wire. The green and the white are both of narrower gauge, so I assume the thinner 2mm squared will suffice.

The 2mm squared cable core seems a fair bit narrower than the 14AWG fitted to the inline fuses, although the 14AWG is not thin walled.

Any tips on ditching the "park/sidelights on, ign off" position on the ignition switch connections?

Thanks Mart

[Kiwi_Roy]

That's a feature of all Guzzi ignition switches, the tail light is always on a different contact for that reason.
You could move them over to the headlight circuit I guess.

I would learn to live with it.

Modified to answer the next post

http://www.guzzitek.org/schemas_electriques/gb/1100/1100California_Carbu_1994.gif
If you look at the schematic the ignition switch is shown as 3 circles, this is the way they represent the 3 positions of the switch
Left circle is Park, middle circle is ON, right circle is OFF, just visualize each one moved to connect the wires where the right circle is sitting now

The battery hot wire goes to terminal 30, I believe the other redish looking wire on the left terminal should be Brown, that goes to the two top fuses item (29)
Note that the green wire from the switch goes to the next fuse down. (I know your fuse block is laid out differently)
So all you have to do is remove the green wire from the switch and connect it to the Brown
Leave the other white wire where it is, that contact of the switch disables the Start button. (although it could be just connected to brown at a pinch)

So now when you put the switch in Park nothing will happen because there's no wire on that terminal.
I don't know anybody that leaves the park lights on, perhaps it's a legal requirement in which case you could just have a 2 way toggle switch to connect the park lights to Brown or the battery or the switch where the green wire was.

You could snip the green wire near the fuse block and connect it to Brown there but you must remove it from the switch anyway or it will backfeed the ignition in Park
Also if you do it at the switch the next owner will be able to change it back if they want.

I hear you on the flat battery, I leave my 72 Eldorado lights on all the time by accident 

[izzug otom]

That's a feature of all Guzzi ignition switches, the tail light is always on a different contact for that reason.
You could move them over to the headlight circuit I guess.

I would learn to live with it.

 Yeah, I know mate, I wonder how many flat batteries that's been responsible for over the years tho, I bet it's a fairly big number, certainly a few times here  .

I never have been able to get used to it. Sometimes I'd think about heading back to the bike filled with dread that I've done it again.  It should be simple surely, one way for on, the other way for off. Like a tap, or any other ignition I've ever had.

Moving it over to the lights, sorry, but would that be green joining the white post. EDIT :- actually that doesn't work on the diagram, it looks like green to the brown 15/54 terminal. 

Also is it somethin that could cause problems down the line and thus bad practice to move it to the lights connection Roy? I know you not to say things for no reason  .

[Old Jock]

14 AWG is 2.08 mm^2 so for all intensive purposes the Copper CSA is the same

As you already figured Martin, if the wire is normal PVC it will look considerably beefier that the thinwall, but the thinwall will actually be capable of supporting a larger current, 25A should be fine.

I always leave a margin, never load a wire up to it's max rating, it will shorten the life and also remember the longer the run the less current the cable is capable of supporting.

I usually just solder the tails on the inline fuse connector onto the wire I'm running and cover the joint with a couple of layers of shrink sleeve.

AWG is just a rating system used commonly in the US & Canada, this side of the pond we tend to use area, but it amounts to the same thing, Google it & you'll get a raft of equivalent tables

What you want to focus on is the cross sectional area of the conductor. Confusingly (for me anyway) the higher the AWG number the lower the CSA.

If you are trying to terminate bare spades with a tool intended for insulated connectors you are going to have a hard time indeed, if you can achieve a good connection you're more skilled than me.

The side light or parking light used to be a legal requirement, it still might be but it does not form part of an MOT AFAIK (I've never had it checked by a tester)

It will be interesting to see what the end results are and how it impacts on the running of the bike

Good Luck

John

[izzug otom]

14 AWG is 2.08 mm^2 so for all intensive purposes the Copper CSA is the same
John

Useful information, thanks John.

I usually just solder the tails on the inline fuse connector onto the wire I'm running and cover the joint with a couple of layers of shrink sleeve.

I think I'll do the same, thanks. 

It will be interesting to see what the end results are and how it impacts on the running of the bike

Good Luck

John

Thanks mate, I've really got my fingers crossed ............. I daren't hold my breath though.

One thing for sure is that I've really learnt a lot from both you and Roy i this thread, and rwally so pleased you've given your time and energy to help. I really can't thank you both enough. It's a huge thanks though!

All the tails are made up, I'm going to fit her back together now. I'll let you know the result of course.

Cheers, Mart

[Sheepdog]

Cutting into an existing wiring harness can be a Pandora's Box. I have had better luck with solder and shrink tubing than those crimp connectors. It conducts current better, is better isolated from nature, and takes up a great deal less space...

[izzug otom]

Cutting into an existing wiring harness can be a Pandora's Box. I have had better luck with solder and shrink tubing than those crimp connectors. It conducts current better, is better isolated from nature, and takes up a great deal less space...

Thanks Sheepdog, yes I'm sure that is a better way. If it all works with this set up I may well redo the joints, I'm really non too impressed with the bullet connectors I bought, though I think I've made good contact with them all.

She's finally back together, time for a test ride and see if there's any difference to the running probems I've had.