Norge vs. BMW RT

[JeffOlson]

Once again, the Norge has won.

As some of you may know, I placed a deposit on this bike (well, one that looks like this bike):


I had thought I would ride more to work. If I were to do that, I could easily justify $25,000 for a new bike. However, the last time I rode to work (last week), I realized again that I hate riding through Portland on I-5. It takes nearly an hour to slog through bumper-to-bumper traffic, with my foot down 100 times, feathering the clutch and not even being able to get the bike into 1st gear. And it is is only going to get worse--much worse. No, I need the comfort of a large automobile to maintain any sanity while commuting through hell. Something like this:


I got my deposit back yesterday. I am going to stick with joy-riding the Norge around the Olympic Peninsula and commute only in my car:


At least until the pain of my last ride through Portland wears off and I think, "Maybe this time it will be better..."

[Rainrider]

Where are you coming from/going to in Portland? If you are coming down from Washington and looking at more than a half-hour delay getting across the river, it may be worthwhile, or at least sanity-preserving to cross at Longview and come in on Hwy 30.

[JeffOlson]

Where are you coming from/going to in Portland? If you are coming down from Washington and looking at more than a half-hour delay getting across the river, it may be worthwhile, or at least sanity-preserving to cross at Longview and come in on Hwy 30.

I am coming down from Olympia and going to Lake Oswego, and then back up later. Sometimes I will take I-205, but I hadn't thought about Longview. I will look into that. Even a longer ride is better than standing still, cursing...

[Rainrider]

Even a longer ride is better than standing still, cursing...

That's the way I usually feel about it. I'll admit I don't know much about 30 as a commute, but anything that takes the I-5 bridge out of the equation can't be all bad.

[travelingbyguzzi]

That is the way I feel about my commute near Seattle. 20 miles on I-405 usually takes an hour with most of that on a 5 mile stretch from Bellevue south. I have a company truck at my disposal and many days I will leave the bike in the parking garage at work if traffic is all balled up.
I have just about had it with the Seattle area. Gonna exploit the economy as much as possible for the next couple years and then head for the hills. Permanently.

[Vince in Milwaukee]

I sat on the new R1200RT last summer.  Way too many fancy do dads for me.  When all those slick electronic gizmos start acting up in 10-15 years , you'll be digging deep into your wallet.  I'd be getting the Norge also.   

[Scott of the Sahara]

8 Years ago when I was looking for a Sport Touring Bike, that BMW was on my radar. I really liked the bike, but the seat height was way too tall for my short little legs. When I tried the Moto Guzzi Norge, it was a perfect fit for me. I still have it. I love the white. That is my only disappointment. I do not like Black. I would have loved a red one. Oh well, that is what they had.

[LowRyter]

I really couldn't make sense of the title, the photos or the narrative.  Non sequiturs. 

[drw916]

Moved from Seattle to Spokane about 20 years ago.  It was a mess then, and far worse now.  I have never regretted the move.  Much better bike roads out here too.

[Yeahoo Whoyah]

feathering the clutch and not even being able to get the bike into 1st gear

Find a good used Convert, they're great in stop and go traffic

[guzzipete]

You can get to Lake Oswego from Olympia and never touch I5 after Longview.

Take the Longview/Rainier Bridge to Hwy 30.

Go East on Hwy 30 to NW Cornelius Pass Road to Hwy 26.

Go East on Hwy 26 to Hwy 217.

Go South on Hwy 217 into Lake Oswego.

That route is maybe 10 to 20 miles longer than taking I5 all the way.

I have to say that the traffic on 26 and 217 can be heavy at times

[drbone641]

Norge - no cruise for a sport tourer 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Norge - no cruise for a sport tourer 

It's no big deal to put one on if you *have* to have one. BMW=over priced over farkled over rated. Just MHO. Get a Norge and a V7 or maybe 2 Norges for the price of an RT. 
Glad you came to your senses, Jeff. 

[ohiorider]

Regardless of the cost difference, I will always give BMW Motorrad credit for figuring out their marketplace, and knowing how to sell into it. And understanding how to price their bikes to match their demographic.  Guzzi needs to take a lesson (never.)   MOA and RA still both publish nice club mags, and obviously, someone in MOA knows how to loosen up BMW's purse strings .... the current MOA raffle is for 25 Beemers, all to be raffled at the MOA Rally this summer. Don't want the bike? .... take cash.

They're not targeting the small base of Guzzi riders ..... they're selling to the rider base they, along with MOA and RA, helped to create, expand, support, and maintain.

Bob

[jas67]

IMHO, the R1200RS would be a much better comparison to the Norge than the R1200RT.

[Darren Williams]

I have a 2007 GS and while I really enjoy riding the bike, the cost of ownership is very high. it seems the cost of parts average about 4 times the cost of parts on a Japanese bike.  And it's the little extras that really hit you in the wallet. the saying is true, "gadgets are to BMW what chrome is to Harley".

[Tusayan]

Extremely high parts cost is part of the reason late model BMWs depreciate so badly.  That plus complexity/gadgetry that cannot be maintained forever at reasonable cost.

Ducatis get a bad rap for high cost of ownership, but dont depreciate in the same way.  I have four Ducatis with a combined market value of around $50K, bought by me over time for about the same (combined) $25K cost as this single BMW, a bike that will depreciate to nothing over the same length of time.  My Guzzis are not much different, like the Ducatis they've all held their value pretty well.  BMW knows their market and customers, but I wonder if they actually laugh at them when discussing how to remove their money for a product that has no lasting market value?

[Scud]

Tough call on the commute. Lane splitting makes commuting on a bike a much easier decision here in California - as does the ability to use the HOV lanes. Are there no advantages for motorcycles on roads in Oregon? Not even access to carpool lanes?

[JeffOlson]

There is a car pool lane on one side of I-5 in Portland (heading north from 3 to 6 pm).  However, it is occupied by single-occupant vehicles and semis, no doubt flipping their middle fingers at the Man. The only other option would be to ride illegally on the left shoulder (as many motorcycles already do, no doubt flipping their middle fingers to the Man).

[Zoom Zoom]

Riding a bike in heavy traffic is simply no fun however you slice it. Then there is the crazy person that takes offense to you trying to move through the lanes and tries to make your life miserable. In situations such as that, I would much rather be in a car. At least you have a bit more around you.

Another thing. Now a days, there are a lot of cars that get excellent fuel economy. Some as good or better than some bikes, so the argument of saving gas does not always apply either.

I prefer the path of least aggravation.   

John Henry

[kirby1923]

  .  BMW knows their market and customers, but I wonder if they actually laugh at them when discussing how to remove their money for a product that has no lasting market value?

Maybe its because to some of us, residual value is a very small factor in the purchasing decision..no?

It never entered my mind when I bought my rockster new in '04. About $10K out the door. Today 14 years later I can $3K or more, hardly worthless.

:-)

[JeffOlson]

The semis are fun to watch in the car-pool lane. They almost always have their right turn signals on, but they never get over. Oh, and the single-occupant landscaper trucks with their loose garbage cans in the bed. (One of them flew out one day and hit my BMW; fortunately, it was empty and plastic and only scratched the bumper cap...)

The cops ticket motorcycles for riding down the right shoulder to get to an exit, but they never ticket anyone in the car-pool lane. (Probably because it is impossible to get to once clogged traffic stalls, or maybe they are just lazy...)

[Tusayan]

Maybe its because to some of us, residual value is a very small factor in the purchasing decision..no?

It never entered my mind when I bought my rockster new in '04. About $10K out the door. Today 14 years later I can $3K or more, hardly worthless.

:-)

BMW does know their market, one that has on the average aged dramatically, and apparently they agree that for riders at a 'certain age' future value may not be very important.

[Sheepdog]

Yes, the I-5 is much of what I dislike about urban environs. Even when outside of rush hour it can be a maddening chore. I tried commuting into New Orleans when I worked there a while back. I could see that it was not sustainable from a safety standpoint. I just had too many near-misses that I could not have avoided...

I test rode an RT, as it was getting rave reviews from the moto-media. It is a refined and comfortable bike, albeit a little porky. Also, for here in the South, the wind protection was a little too good. The leftover 2016 RS on the floor worked out to be the better choice. It's a much simpler bike and though electronic features still abound, I keep my bikes in a climate-controlled shop so I'm hoping the combination of dry air, not splicing into the harness, and protection from the elements will delay failures. The bike is astoundingly competent and the dealer made me a great deal. It's a big change from my Vintage (that I will keep as long as I can) which is exactly what I was going for: a bike that would expand my moto-paradigm rather than replace it.

[kirby1923]

BMW does know their market, one that has on the average aged dramatically, and apparently they agree that for riders at a 'certain age' future value may not be very important.

Yes and with age comes wisdom. Last BMW rally I attended was mostly middle age folks and some of us old guys that have never grown up.

[Tusayan]

Yes and with age comes wisdom.

And mortality, which is why those 'wise old owls' buying BMWs in 2018 are not concerned about spending $25K on a disposable motorcycle.  My friends in Germany who work for BMW are eternally grateful.

Last BMW rally I attended was mostly middle age folks and some of us old guys that have never grown up.

I have been riding and socializing at least weekly with my local BMW club members since 1984.   I'd estimate during that period that the age of the average member has increased form roughly 40 to roughly 65. 

[SemperVee]

I feel your pain as I commuted 100 miles a day splitting lanes in So Cal for more than 20 years on my HD dressers, all accident free.  *My Joke is I live in Seattle,  I can see it but can't get there!!   The roads here on the Kitsap pennisula and around the 101 are mostly pain free and easy traveling.  Getting to MI would be a major hassle up the 5 at just about any time of the day.  The White Norge is beautiful! 

[ohiorider]

Nice ride, Sheepdog!

Bob

[Rainrider]

I'm lucky in that my commute avoids most of the traffic most of the time. This is a mixed blessing, because while I'm dealing with a lower volume of crappy Portland drivers, the ones on my route have more velocity behind their bad decisions.

I've memorized alternate routes for each freeway exit I pass, in case things suddenly go south (or if I just get a worse than usual feeling about the drivers I'm sharing the freeway with).

[kirby1923]

And mortality, which is why those 'wise old owls' buying BMWs in 2018 are not concerned about spending $25K on a disposable motorcycle.  My friends in Germany who work for BMW are eternally grateful.


I have been riding and socializing at least weekly with my local BMW club members since 1984.   I'd estimate during that period that the age of the average member has increased form roughly 40 to roughly 65.

First of all you don't have to spend anywhere near $25K for a new BMW any more that $50K on a good car.
and to say they depreciate to nothing is nonsense.
 
What is the point of all your near condescending remarks?

Most here that ride BMW don't really give a D***n what you think about beemers, so why do you persist on telling us how bad they are.

This kind of rhetoric is useless.