New Harleys - the Moco trying to compete

[Sheepdog]

Can someone please explain to me what is the purpose of the "streetfighter" tail pointing up at the heavens?  It doesn't seem to relate to fender clearance or suspension travel....

Wheelie clearance for wannabe stunters...

[Ncdan]

Personally, I don't think it's any uglier than any of the other duel sport bikes, especially the BMW. That being said there are a couple of positives to a harley duel sport. First of all I'll go out on a limb in saying it will be a dependable well designed motorcycle as Harley Davidson motorcycles are just as reliable  as anything out there. I've put thousands on totally trouble free miles on them in the last 20
Years and you can bet your butt if you break down in Podunk No Where there will be a harley shop near by. That being said duel sports are not my cup of tea, just too fugley🤮

[pressureangle]

You forgot a pic of their "LiveWire" electric bike, which appears to be available next year...

I test rode the Livewire. I'll own one as soon as it's available.

[Tusayan]

That being said there are a couple of positives to a harley duel sport. First of all I'll go out on a limb in saying it will be a dependable well designed motorcycle as Harley Davidson motorcycles are just as relevant as anything out there. I've put thousands on totally trouble free miles on them in the last 20
Years and you can bet your butt if you break down in Podunk No Where there will be a harley shop near by.

I think that's a very relevant point, and could be HD's best hope for market share outside of their traditional domain.  European manufacturers have generated a reputation for poor reliability and do not have the same dealer base.  Japanese manufacturers have generally good products and dealers but don't address BMW's snob appeal.  HD has the money to develop a performance product if (a big if) they they have the will to do so.  With that in hand I think their excellent dealer network, likely reliability and non-Japanese snob appeal could make this work out.

[roadscum]

I applaud H-D for making such a bold move.... finally. I do hope they can remain a successful motorcycle manufacturing company, after all they are Americana at its best. I've owned a few and enjoyed each and everyone of then, FXR, FLHTP, 2 R K's and a R G.


I take a test ride on the new models as soon as I can and if it makes me smile I may own it. What I won't do is join the culture, no black t-shirt, no dew rags, no fingerless gloves, etc...


Paul

[roadscum]

I think that's a very relevant point, and could be HD's best hope for market share outside of their traditional domain.  European manufacturers have generated a reputation for poor reliability and do not have the same dealer base.  Japanese manufacturers have generally good products and dealers but don't address BMW's snob appeal.  HD has the money to develop a performance product if (a big if) they they have the will to do so.  With that in hand I think their excellent dealer network, likely reliability and non-Japanese snob appeal could make this work out.

I've owned 8-9 BMW's 1st was a new 1972, got about 350,000 mile in total on BMW's. luv the boxer motor and the technology, never been left stranded at road side, always had great dealer support, …. and don't consider myself myself a BMW snob. On the other hand I've owned 2 MG's and they both left me stranded at roadside, the 1200 Sport on several occasions and the V7 III only one so far, as did an H-D(owned 5), and a Yamaha.

Will ride and own anything that makes me smile, that's what motorcycle enthusiasts do!

Paul

[roadscum]

Can someone please explain to me what is the purpose of the "streetfighter" tail pointing up at the heavens?  It doesn't seem to relate to fender clearance or suspension travel....

It's a styling exercise, nut'n wrong with that. All manufactures apply different styles to similar bike in a model lineup, it provides shoppers with a more choices. H-D excels in this practice. 

Paul

[Tusayan]

I've owned 8-9 BMW's 1st was a new 1972, got about 350,000 mile in total on BMW's. luv the boxer motor and the technology, never been left stranded at road side, always had great dealer support, �. and don't consider myself myself a BMW snob. On the other hand I've owned 2 MG's and they both left me stranded at roadside, the 1200 Sport on several occasions and the V7 III only one so far, as did an H-D(owned 5), and a Yamaha.

I've got about 200,000 miles on BMW twins myself, on two continents and have never been left stranded by mine... the newest of which was a '93.  Actually, I've never been stranded by any motorcycle since 1974 but that aside I have been with quite a few other riders on 21st century  BMWs that have left their owners in the lurch.  One notable instance was a ride on which one late model GS got water in the TPS and was trucked home and another ate its valve gear.  Both on the same ride to Corsica from Munich.  Another friend had a K1600 engine self immolation, bike totaled and parted out at 60,000 miles and so on.  This stuff is not exactly rare. 

I don't think I have to lay out KTMs issues, there's a lot of info out there.  I have 6 of them in addition to my current BMW, but Ducati and Guzzi don't have a sterling reputation for reliability either... 

HD does have a good reliability reputation in the here and now.  That reputation is matched only by the Japanese and possibly by Triumph, I think that leaving an opportunity for HD and their well developed dealer network.

[Sheepdog]

Great point about the HD dealer network. This is the reason I test ride one every time I am shopping for a bike. Some even get to the final two choices, but I still haven’t bought one (the Road Glide Special came close, but was way too heavy). Though the pictured bikes don’t do it for me, HD is finally putting together some motorcycles that address my priorities. I can see myself on one someday...

[egschade]

<SNIP>  I've owned 2 MG's and they both left me stranded at roadside, the 1200 Sport on several occasions and the V7 III only one so far, as did an H-D(owned 5), and a Yamaha.

Paul

Paul - In a blatant thread hijack, what problem stranded you on the V7 III? Owning one I'm interested in troubles I may encounter.

[Ncdan]

I applaud H-D for making such a bold move.... finally. I do hope they can remain a successful motorcycle manufacturing company, after all they are Americana at its best. I've owned a few and enjoyed each and everyone of then, FXR, FLHTP, 2 R K's and a R G.


I take a test ride on the new models as soon as I can and if it makes me smile I may own it. What I won't do is join the culture, no black t-shirt, no dew rags, no fingerless gloves, etc...


Paul

I 100% agree Paul on the cultural, I've owned several and never gave them free advertising on my body and the leather vest and chain going to theiwallet was always laughable to me.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

im not reading 4 pages about Harley, but I will say the ADV looks like a catfish and the white one looks cool but I would never ever ever even consider purchasing a bike with these ridiculous forward controls.. and if midmounts are offered I want them installed & included in the purchase price before i'll get on it

otherwise, kudos on pushing the electric into production

[Tusayan]

In 50 year cycles, everything old becomes new again...   Including HD's wide spectrum, performance focused 2020 product line

[Kev m]

Paul - In a blatant thread hijack, what problem stranded you on the V7 III? Owning one I'm interested in troubles I may encounter.

Fuel filter ruptured in first 1k or so miles.

[Yan]

From their press release at https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/about-us/hd-news/2018/harley-davidson-accelerates-strategy-to-build-next-generation-of-riders-globally.html:
"Developing a more accessible, small-displacement (250cc to 500cc) motorcycle for Asia emerging markets through a planned strategic alliance with a manufacturer in Asia.  This new product and broader distribution is intended to fuel Harley-Davidson’s customer access and growth in India, one of the largest, fastest growing markets in the world, and other Asia markets."

It will be interesting to see how the 250cc HD's will turn out!!   

[JohninVT]

I was a Harley hater for most of my life.  They didn't make very good motorcycles in the 70's and 80's and the 1%-er thing turned me off.  However, far, far too many old men here, on ADVrider and elsewhere continue to think Harley, their riders and their dealers are still the same as they were 30-40 years ago.  They're not.

The new Harley cruisers have more power, better brakes, better electronic packages, handle as well and are priced competitively with Japanese, European and other American cruisers. 

I've been to at least a dozen Harley dealers in the last ten years.  Not once was I on a Harley.  Every..single.. time I was greeted by friendly staff who asked me what I rode, if I liked it and they usually complimented my bike.  Yeah, some of them were boutiques that I left 3 minutes after walking through the door but they were all friendly and helpful. 

The Streetfighter is what I always wanted from Buell but never got; a modern, American Ducati.  It has rational steering geometry.  It has an engine that isn't 4' long, that weighs 280lbs.  It has normal, high quality brakes instead of perimeter rotors.  It's not a collection of ideas packaged into a motorcycle.  It's a thoroughly designed motorcycle.  Extrapolating some power figures from a tuned up 975cc version of the Street 750 gives you something around 100+hp and 80ft/lbs.  That's Griso 8 valve territory.  Now...I like the Griso but that engine in a bike that was 50-60lbs lighter, with a 4-5" shorter wheelbase would absolutely rock.  The Streetfighter might be that bike.  I have high hopes for it.

I've owned a dozen Adv and dualsport bikes.  The GS is a pig.  The KTM is a pig.  The Stelvio is way past pig and into whale territory.  If you prance around in a hi-viz twatsuit(copyright Pete Roper) and a Schuberth helmet but make fun of a guy on a Harley in a leather vest...well...you might be lacking some self awareness.  I'm not a fan of the DirtGlide because it looks as heavy as all the other bikes I think are too heavy to ride where I like to ride.  That's a personal thing.  Hopefully there will be a lot of buyers out there that don't share my views on it.  I think the Custom-Thingy(whatever it's called) looks amazing as a static design theory.  I think it would suck to ride.  I feel the same way about the Indian Scout.  This roll out is the first time in 40-50 years that Harley has introduced a revolutionary(for them) line up of motorcycles spanning the marketplace.  Even if I'm not interested in 2 out of the 3 shown so far I still think it is an amazing development and I hope they're successful.           

[roadscum]

Paul - In a blatant thread hijack, what problem stranded you on the V7 III? Owning one I'm interested in troubles I may encounter.

OEM fuel filter failed on my V7 III Special at only 1300 miles and 12 days after taking delivery. I was returning to FL from Ct on a buy/fly/ride. The selling dealer in CT, Hamlin Cycles, sent an employee on an overnight 300 mile round trip to fetch me and the bike.


The OEM fule filters are 1/2 plastic and 1/2 metal, the plastic swells and parts from the metal, then you sitting at road side.  My recommendation to all V7 owners, all guzzi owners for that matter, is to change to an all metal filter ASAP. It's a know week point and has a high potential for failure. My 1200 Sport had tha same filter but was swapped out before it cased abroblem.

Paul

[jas67]

It will be interesting to see how the 250cc HD's will turn out!!   

The 250cc HD's will not be sold in the US, or Europe.   

They will likely be a premium bike for their intended market of Asian countries, such as China, India, and most of South East Asia, where people's income is 1/10th or less what it is in the US.     50-125cc bikes are what people typically ride there.    A 250 is a premium bike.   The RE Bullet 350 is a big bike in India.

[TN Mark]

Well, looks like that info I heard some months back about Harley asking for sport and dual sport tires from Michelin may have some meat to it. Seems that they might have finally woken up and are going to try and compete in something more than just air-cooled cruisers/tourers. I hope these new bikes are up to the task.

https://www.hotbikeweb.com/harley-davidson-...new-motorcycles

I love all three of these H-D's and I'm thrilled to see H-D doing what they're doing. I find it strange people calling them ugly and such. As if the KLR, any KTM or a BMW GS is anything to look at. All three of these bikes, IMHO, look well suited for their intended purpose and clientele.

I showed someone a picture of a red and black Eldorado last week and they said "man; that thing's ugly!" I said "I think it's beautiful with it's retro styling and modern mechanicals." Then they said, "yea, I can see that". I thought to myself, what a mark. And the guy doesn't even ride an H-D!

Look folks, the motorcycle markets around the world for most anything over an 800cc for the most part are not doing well. Like it or not, H-D 'is' the 'big' motorcycle market. I don't want an H-D at this point but I will certainly continue to cheer them on when they improve their motorcycles and widen their target markets. Though if I could find a nice Dyna Wide Glide in great shape I could be talked into it if the timing was right. Maybe even an old 60's Knucklehead, though I love the look of their Pan Head motor as well.

But, for now, I'll continue to be loving on my Victory CCT. Though I did talk to a dealer with a red and black Eldo today.

[elvisboy77]

Standard on all of them:
Excess weight
Excess cost
Poor handling.

Can't wait to not buy them lol

[Kev m]

Standard on all of them:
Excess weight
Excess cost
Poor handling.

Can't wait to not buy them lol

Amazing how some are so sure of things that haven't been released yet.

The Street Rod is none of those things, NONE.

[Rough Edge racing]

Amazing how some are so sure of things that haven't been released yet.

The Street Rod is none of those things, NONE.

  Yes..I'm critical of the style but the bikes may perform very well....Hopefully ,the HD looking like a Ducati Monster will be about the same weight and performance.

[twowheeladdict]

I said to my wife the other day: "see that bike over there?  You know what they call those handlebars?"  She said:  "monkey bars?"  I said:  "close, those are ape hangers"  We both got a good laugh over that one! 
I do not know how anyone rides a motorcycle with bars like that, or for that matter with forward controls, but that is just me.  These new Harley's whatever they end up looking like were not targeted towards me, that's for sure.  I commend HD for these efforts though...but I think they really have an uphill climb.

Have you ever ridden a bike with moderate ape hangers (shoulder height) and forward controls?  If not, you should.  It is a different riding experience.  I personally like to experience something before I pass judgement on it.  I find it funny reading these posts about bashing others and then reading what you all put up with to own big block Moto Guzzis. 

[blackcat]

Worldwide sales in 2017:242,788 bikes.  Even if these three bikes don't sell well, they will still outsell worldwide Guzzi sales of all models.

https://investor.harley-davidson.com/news-releases/news-release-details/harley-davidson-announces-fourth-quarter-full-year-2017-results

[lti_57]

Have you ever ridden a bike with moderate ape hangers (shoulder height) and forward controls?  If not, you should.  It is a different riding experience.  I personally like to experience something before I pass judgement on it.  I find it funny reading these posts about bashing others and then reading what you all put up with to own big block Moto Guzzis.

I have rode my buddies Harley with Apes  for a good half a day I actually liked it.
then we traded off and I rode his new  bagger down the freeway.
both we good running bikes.  I would consider a new or new to me Harley as my main ride.

[TN Mark]

Amazing how some are so sure of things that haven't been released yet.

The Street Rod is none of those things, NONE.

Yes, 100%.

Sadly for way too many their deeply help opinions are backed only by their extremely shallow experience. (Romans 1:22) Thankfully, there are brands and styles to fit just about any pre conceived notion of what's right.

[bad Chad]

The Adv bike looks like it came straight out of a Chinese design studio.   I'll very surprised if the production version still has that block front end.

[Socalrob]

As a BMW GSA owner, have to say I am liking the Adventure bike.  Like the front end.  If the wind screen is well sorted that looks like a bike that would be great eating up miles of western US roads.

Looking at the Adv bike, looks like HD is sacrificing some suspension travel to get a low seat height (for the segment).  I imagine this will be a more road oriented Adv. bike, meant only for dirt roads when off pavement, which is pretty similar to the BMW and other offerings.  Want to go off-road, need a 600 to 700 single or twin weighing below 400 lbs.

And I have been treated well at Harley dealers.  One even did diagnostics on my BMW battery.

[Ncdan]

Standard on all of them:
Excess weight
Excess cost
Poor handling.

Can't wait to not buy them lol

There is a simple fix for all three of these issues.
Excess weight: one could just buy a scooter
Excess cost: one could buy a used scooter
Poor handling: one could take lessons and learn how to ride.
😂

[pressureangle]

Standard on all of them:
Excess weight
Excess cost
Poor handling.

Can't wait to not buy them lol

With an overnight setup job, I'll smoke you on your goose with any '90's Sportster 883 anywhere you'd like to ride.