Author Topic: A new Guzzi joins the fold (and it runs!)  (Read 1744 times)

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2018, 07:08:26 PM »
Nice. I know a guy that is looking for an Airone. Give me a ping if anyone knows about one..
TIA..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
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Thanks to two wings..
"All a man can ask is to have good friends and to pee with velocity...."

Offline SED

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2018, 11:00:55 PM »
One other weird thing if you are working on getting it running.  Check the depth of the threads in the head.  Standard today is ~3/4" (without gasket) for aluminum.  ~1/2" for cast iron heads back in the day.  Both my GTV (cast iron) and Carlo's Airone (alloy) have about 14mm of thread - ~5/8" without the gasket.

The Airone had a 3/4" reach plug installed that was 3 threads from being tight.  Don't know if the piston would hit it.

I was buying parts in Mandello and asked for the correct plug and Marco at Guzzi Retro offered me 1/2" reach plugs.  When I asked for 14mm reach he  said "oh, very rare!"  I've cut the NGK 18mm (diameter) on the lathe to give it the correct reach, but doing the same to 14mm (dia.) NGKs cuts the base off.  (we stacked gaskets until we find a better solution)  Lathe might work with Bosch or Champion...


   
1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
193? Guzzi GTV


Offline injundave

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2018, 11:45:13 PM »
And another vote for patina! Give it a wipe over with an oily rag, get it running and able to be ridden and ENJOY.

What a gorgeous machine.
1975 850 T3
1980 V50

Offline luthier

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2018, 10:43:58 AM »
At one of our rallies a bloke rode from South Australia to the Ragged Fringe in NSW on his Airone.
It was exquisite. Here are the photos I took.












If you want any of these in a larger file  let me know.
Cheers,
Dan


Online canuck750

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2018, 01:48:24 PM »
Thanks for posting the Airione pictures! 

I will send you a pm with my email contact.

Cheers

Jim
1949 Guzzio Airione
1958 Guzzi Cardellino
1972 Guzzi Eldorado
1972 Bemelli Enduro
1973 Guzzi V7 Sport
1973 Laverda SF1
1973 Benelli 650 Tornado
1974 Guzzi 750S
1975 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Strada
1978 Moto Morini 500
2008 KLR 650
2015 KLR 650
2016 BMW K1600

SOLD

1975 750 S3
1977 Le Mans
1993 1000

Offline balvenie

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2018, 07:44:54 PM »
How could I possibly have missed this topic? :cry: :embarrassed: :shocked: I swear it wasn't  :boozing: or  :copcar:
Will try to do better in future :wink: :smiley:
Oz
04 Cali
As ye practice, so do ye teach.

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2018, 08:33:54 PM »
At one of our rallies a bloke rode from South Australia to the Ragged Fringe in NSW on his Airone.
It was exquisite. Here are the photos I took.



Nice Falcone.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 08:35:01 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'69 V700
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'76 Convert
'85 Moto Morini 350 K2

Offline luthier

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2018, 10:34:25 PM »
O dear, my bad. However still a reference point for the Airone in many ways.
Thanks Charlie.


Online canuck750

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1949 Guzzio Airione
1958 Guzzi Cardellino
1972 Guzzi Eldorado
1972 Bemelli Enduro
1973 Guzzi V7 Sport
1973 Laverda SF1
1973 Benelli 650 Tornado
1974 Guzzi 750S
1975 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Strada
1978 Moto Morini 500
2008 KLR 650
2015 KLR 650
2016 BMW K1600

SOLD

1975 750 S3
1977 Le Mans
1993 1000

Offline SED

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2018, 11:45:02 PM »
If you need any pictures of an Airone or info - there's one in my shop now.  A Turismo with sport bars.  I've worked out the clutch adjustment and translated the page on timing the engine and magneto - let me know if you'd like a copy.

The bikesales Airone has an oversized tank - for Milano-Taranto races? 

Looking forward to your report on your Airone.  :popcorn:

1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
193? Guzzi GTV

Offline jumpmaster

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2018, 05:58:33 PM »
Sweet! I would never restore that, just make it mechanically and electrically sound and then ride it every chance I got. To me, it's perfect cosmetically - it fits in right between "too pretty to ride" and "so ugly I'm ashamed of it".   :grin:

+1 to Charlie's comments.  I'm generally not a great fan of patina - it's pretty much usually just a record of a machinery's abuse over the years.  On the other hand, if the bike is as rare as this one, then the "historical" argument carries some weight.  My daddy always taught me that if you treat machinery right, it usually will repay you with reliability & good performance.  My Norton violates that adage regularly, but that's a story for another time...
JC
90 Mille GT, 73 Eldorado, 75 Norton Commando, 46 Whizzer, 13 Harley Road Glide

Offline 5154guzzi

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2018, 07:53:31 PM »
In looking at the pics of your Astorino , looks like it may not be an original paint bike , The decals are certainly newer than 40`s and early 50`s bikes..  Have fun with it and congratulations.

Online canuck750

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold (and it runs!)
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2018, 06:15:26 PM »
After a couple hour ride on my KLR this afternoon I decided to give the Airione a try at starting. I am not sure about the right procedure, just did what I used to do to get my Yamaha TT500 to run, finally figured out the push button on top of the Delorto carb is to feed fuel into the bowl.

After a couple kicks it fired up, doesn't want to idle, need to work on that but I think it sounds pretty decent.

My apologies for the crappy video, holding the camera in one hand, kick starting and working the throttle, the camera is pointing down at the ground / motor, can't figure out how to rotate the image

https://youtu.be/prhNUcjDsWc

When I give it gas it walks backwards just like my Laverda. I had the fuel off, it just runs out of gas at the end.

I have a grin from ear to ear :laugh:
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 06:18:15 PM by canuck750 »
1949 Guzzio Airione
1958 Guzzi Cardellino
1972 Guzzi Eldorado
1972 Bemelli Enduro
1973 Guzzi V7 Sport
1973 Laverda SF1
1973 Benelli 650 Tornado
1974 Guzzi 750S
1975 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Strada
1978 Moto Morini 500
2008 KLR 650
2015 KLR 650
2016 BMW K1600

SOLD

1975 750 S3
1977 Le Mans
1993 1000

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold (and it runs!)
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2018, 06:25:59 PM »
 :thumb: :thumb:
Charlie
http://www.AntietamClassicCycle.com
'69 V700
'69 Ambassador
'76 Convert
'85 Moto Morini 350 K2

Online Dave Swanson

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold (and it runs!)
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2018, 06:52:15 PM »
That's a success there Jim!!

Buzz Kanter has 2 Falcones and might be selling this one.  He is the editor, owner? of American Iron Mag.  Good guy and has nice bikes. He cycles them through his garage from time to time.

Dave Swanson Northern IL
68 V700, 73 V7 Sport, 74 Eldo, 77 Vert, 93 1000S, 2004 V11S, 2015 Norge GT8V, 15 V7 Special


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Offline balvenie

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold (and it runs!)
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2018, 08:31:54 PM »
Success :grin: :thumb:
Oz
04 Cali
As ye practice, so do ye teach.

Online canuck750

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold (and it runs!)
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2018, 09:20:59 PM »
That's a success there Jim!!

Buzz Kanter has 2 Falcones and might be selling this one.  He is the editor, owner? of American Iron Mag.  Good guy and has nice bikes. He cycles them through his garage from time to time.



That's just beautiful, think he may want a V7 Sport in trade?
1949 Guzzio Airione
1958 Guzzi Cardellino
1972 Guzzi Eldorado
1972 Bemelli Enduro
1973 Guzzi V7 Sport
1973 Laverda SF1
1973 Benelli 650 Tornado
1974 Guzzi 750S
1975 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Strada
1978 Moto Morini 500
2008 KLR 650
2015 KLR 650
2016 BMW K1600

SOLD

1975 750 S3
1977 Le Mans
1993 1000

Offline SED

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold (and it runs!)
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2018, 09:59:27 PM »
Congratulations!   :thumb:  it sounds good and revs nicely.   

Start drill that I've been using is turn on oil, turn on fuel, set choke lever so the choke is almost all on, rotate twist grip to lift the slide maybe 1/8" - not more (reportedly this is the reason the throttle spring is not strong enough to close the throttle), ignition advance at 1/4 to 1/3 advance (tight wire is full advance, slack is full retard if set up correctly), tickle carb 1 good second, and kick.

Both the GTV and Airone I'm working on seem to run rich and neither idles consistently (perhaps weak magnetos) and the start drill is a little different than the Ariels.  I suspect that if the mag and carb were sorted that start drill would be the same as the Ariels.   Since both Guzzis appear (by the spark plug) to run rich they seem to need very little tickle and choke and if they don't start within about 3 kicks they are probably flooded. 

3 ways I've read to kill turn off the Airone (no decompressor) - close taps to run it out of fuel, put in gear and kill it with the clutch, or let idle slow and drag your boot on the flywheel!  So far I've had no problem stopping the engine on the Airone :rolleyes: 

Ride report in the future?  :bike-037:

 

1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
193? Guzzi GTV

Online canuck750

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold (and it runs!)
« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2018, 05:19:09 PM »
Congratulations!   :thumb:  it sounds good and revs nicely.   

Start drill that I've been using is turn on oil, turn on fuel, set choke lever so the choke is almost all on, rotate twist grip to lift the slide maybe 1/8" - not more (reportedly this is the reason the throttle spring is not strong enough to close the throttle), ignition advance at 1/4 to 1/3 advance (tight wire is full advance, slack is full retard if set up correctly), tickle carb 1 good second, and kick.

Both the GTV and Airone I'm working on seem to run rich and neither idles consistently (perhaps weak magnetos) and the start drill is a little different than the Ariels.  I suspect that if the mag and carb were sorted that start drill would be the same as the Ariels.   Since both Guzzis appear (by the spark plug) to run rich they seem to need very little tickle and choke and if they don't start within about 3 kicks they are probably flooded. 

3 ways I've read to kill turn off the Airone (no decompressor) - close taps to run it out of fuel, put in gear and kill it with the clutch, or let idle slow and drag your boot on the flywheel!  So far I've had no problem stopping the engine on the Airone :rolleyes: 

Ride report in the future?  :bike-037:

Thanks for the info :thumb:

I went back to restart the bike today to find fuel weeping out of the carb bowl and the base of the carb itself, the carb has been painted and its pretty dirty, decided to strip it down and see what's inside it.



Traces of gasket cement and what appears to be epoxy on the carb body, intake flange and cap, some one was really trying to fix a leak.



Beside being filthy the exterior of the carb has been painted.





Stripped it all down and went through it in the vapour blaster

No signs of damage or holes in the carb or bowl body, no idea what the epoxy was doing there



I need to get some new cables made and cut out some gaskets, fit a couple new sealing washers and hopefully it will ruin better.



The manual advance cable is seized, the advance mechanism works but the cable is gummed up and the advance lever has been bodged, needs some TLC.

Lots of little jobs to go through to get it running with some level of confidence.

1949 Guzzio Airione
1958 Guzzi Cardellino
1972 Guzzi Eldorado
1972 Bemelli Enduro
1973 Guzzi V7 Sport
1973 Laverda SF1
1973 Benelli 650 Tornado
1974 Guzzi 750S
1975 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Strada
1978 Moto Morini 500
2008 KLR 650
2015 KLR 650
2016 BMW K1600

SOLD

1975 750 S3
1977 Le Mans
1993 1000

Offline SED

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold (and it runs!)
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2018, 06:19:11 PM »
That vapor blaster does a wonderful job.

Carlo's SBF22 had solder plugging up the idle air inlet (idle screw adjusts air, while jet size determines fuel quantity) and in two ports in the mouth of the carb. 
Can you take a good photo showing these ports for us?  There are 2 that are side-by-side at about 6 o'clock just inside the mouth of the carb.

I suspect they were plugged because the slide&bore are worn and air is leaking by.  Wonder if this is the reason for the epoxy?

Some of the older carbs are made from very dark alloy and seem to have been painted originally.  Some of the remote-float AMALS were originally painted. 
Italian rebuilders paint some Dellortos:
https://www.frigerio-revisione-carburatori-seregno.com/galleria/

Here's a picture of a rebuilt & painted SBF22:


If you haven't gotten them already, you want the Dellorto parts catalog:
http://www.alzavalvole.it/files/carburatori-dell-orto-catalogo-1-motoveicoli.pdf

and the Dellorto application manual.  This one will show you the original settings for the Airone Turismo.
http://www.alzavalvole.it/files/carburatori-dell-orto-regolazione-carburatori.pdf

The files are too large for email.  I'll send you the Dellorto SS1 tuning guide too.

Dellorto jet sizes are in 100th of a millimeter so a 50 idle jet is 0.50 mm.  A 270 atomizer is 2.7 mm.  OE parts will have numbers on the jets, atomizer and slide. 
Slide needle will have a letter & number combo and float needle will have a letter for the height of the groove.  The mass of the float is stamped in the top.  Aftermarket atomizer and needles had no marks. 
The idle jet was drilled out on the GTV carb so worth checking with wire gauges. 

Cheers!


1983 LeMans III
1981 Monza
1947 Ariel Red Hunter
1939 Ariel Red Hunter
193? Guzzi GTV

Online canuck750

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Re: A new Guzzi joins the fold (and it runs!)
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2018, 06:29:09 PM »
That vapor blaster does a wonderful job.

Carlo's SBF22 had solder plugging up the idle air inlet (idle screw adjusts air, while jet size determines fuel quantity) and in two ports in the mouth of the carb. 
Can you take a good photo showing these ports for us?  There are 2 that are side-by-side at about 6 o'clock just inside the mouth of the carb.

I suspect they were plugged because the slide&bore are worn and air is leaking by.  Wonder if this is the reason for the epoxy?

Some of the older carbs are made from very dark alloy and seem to have been painted originally.  Some of the remote-float AMALS were originally painted. 
Italian rebuilders paint some Dellortos:
https://www.frigerio-revisione-carburatori-seregno.com/galleria/

Here's a picture of a rebuilt & painted SBF22:


If you haven't gotten them already, you want the Dellorto parts catalog:
http://www.alzavalvole.it/files/carburatori-dell-orto-catalogo-1-motoveicoli.pdf

and the Dellorto application manual.  This one will show you the original settings for the Airone Turismo.
http://www.alzavalvole.it/files/carburatori-dell-orto-regolazione-carburatori.pdf

The files are too large for email.  I'll send you the Dellorto SS1 tuning guide too.

Dellorto jet sizes are in 100th of a millimeter so a 50 idle jet is 0.50 mm.  A 270 atomizer is 2.7 mm.  OE parts will have numbers on the jets, atomizer and slide. 
Slide needle will have a letter & number combo and float needle will have a letter for the height of the groove.  The mass of the float is stamped in the top.  Aftermarket atomizer and needles had no marks. 
The idle jet was drilled out on the GTV carb so worth checking with wire gauges. 

Cheers!

Thanks Sed I have the parts manual but not the tuning manual.

I will take some pictures of the cleaned carb body,

these are the 'before' pictures I took



1949 Guzzio Airione
1958 Guzzi Cardellino
1972 Guzzi Eldorado
1972 Bemelli Enduro
1973 Guzzi V7 Sport
1973 Laverda SF1
1973 Benelli 650 Tornado
1974 Guzzi 750S
1975 Moto Morini 3 1/2 Strada
1978 Moto Morini 500
2008 KLR 650
2015 KLR 650
2016 BMW K1600

SOLD

1975 750 S3
1977 Le Mans
1993 1000

 

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