Author Topic: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner  (Read 1143 times)

Offline wxpajw

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Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« on: August 12, 2018, 01:29:47 PM »
I have been reading about engine oil & was wondering what thoughts might be on Beck Arnely 10w60 api SM enging oil along w.wix or bosch filter might be for a 2010 Stelvio.

A mechanic friend that has helped me w.my GS over the yrs. has touted Guzzi's as being slightly superior in that they don't require ALL the 6000 mile maintenance that BMW suggests, however that may be for the older Guzzi's. But, just to be clear, never been to anal about all the maintenance issues anyway I mostly just change the oil regularly & repair it when something needs repairing.

Anyway, I Just bought the bike a few weeks ago w.4800 miles on it & fixing to ride to Denver from Lower Alabama & would like to change the oil before I go. 

I am use to riding a 1150gs, there are definite differences in the 2 bikes, not sure about the MG yet but figure I'll decide if I'll keep it by the time I get back. 

One thing that I have noticed is it seems to have a "skip" at low RPM's or what seems to be a skip.  It isn't an actual skip so much as it is more from the exhaust & "SOUNDS" like a skip. Any thoughts on that??

The previous owner said something about having the TB's rebuilt, can't understand why he would need to have that done especially w.such low miles. He also had the forks rebuilt, I suppose since it sat around not being used very much the seals must have degraded.

How about accessories?? My GS has a nice wide tail rack that I mounted a couple of milk crates to for a top case, works very well for me & I have been able to utilize foot pegs to stretch my legs out on on road trips which I like cause, as I'm sure everyone knows those knees aren't as supple as they once were. Really would like to come up w.a solution for the top rack & foot peg issue if anyone has some ideas they have implemented, I don't mind giving credit.  :cheesy:

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


Offline Utrider

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2018, 02:06:05 PM »
I have a 2014 Stelvio, so some of the things are a bit different.  Do you know if the engine has been rollerized?  That's the big issue on the pre-2013 bikes.  Pete will probably chime in here when he has a minute and let you know what's up.

As to the "skip"  there are a couple of things, first off check the plug boots/caps a common issue solved by putting on NGK plug caps (full disclosure, I have 21,000 miles on mine, and while I have the NGK caps, I have not had the need to change them).  The other thing is the mapping of the ECU, there are a couple of folks on here who have taken a great deal of time, energy and patience to create new ignition maps to replace the short comings of the stock map.

As far as suspension, your bike will have the 50 mm, Marzocchi forks which are fantastic platforms and great to work with. 

The bike is very sound fundamentally (as long as it's been rollerized) and will give you a great deal of fun and satisfaction to own.  Very simple to work on and great to ride.
I also have a California 1400 Touring, but if it's just me and I want to cover some ground the Stelvio gets the call. 

Your bike will have the smaller fuel tank, so I believe you are somewhere in the neighborhood of 200-225 miles per tank.  Not necessarily a big deal in the East, but out West there are places where you need to know how far you can go.

Welcome to the club, I've been bitten hard by the Guzzi bug, after purchasing my first one in August of 2015 I have about 35,000 miles on them between the 2 bikes.


Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2018, 02:22:20 PM »
As Utrider said, the *important* thing is whether it has been rollerized. Unless it has, it will need to be at no small expense.
Report back, and then will talk about oil.  :smiley:
Oh, welcome to WG, btw.. :)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 02:25:48 PM by Chuck in Indiana »
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Offline wxpajw

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2018, 02:43:22 PM »
Thanks for chiming in. Once I got the BMW I had lots to learn, it seems now I have more. 

The bike has not been rollerized. The chap I bought it from said he took it to his local MG dealer & basically said, yes it will need to be rollerized but it doesn't show the necessary wear to be eligible for warranty/recall work.  I did do some research/reading on the matter & figured w.4800 miles on it I'd have plenty of use out of it before it needed the upgrade & once I put sufficient miles on it it would be eligible.

I've considered the plugs &/or wires being the problem after reading about the prevalence of failure by not adhereing to proper removal procedure, but haven't done anything about it yet as once up to hwy speeds it really isn't a problem, I'll do the plug wire upgrades as PM w.new plugs at the same time.

Mostly wonder about oil brands if there is really a difference. I don't want there to be any warranty issue by using non-guzzi filter or some other brand of oil, but then again my school of thought is they, whoever they are, will do their best to wiggle out of responsibility if they can.  I too like doing all my own maintenance cause you just DO NOT what they do behind closed doors.

BTW, not a fan of the small gas tank, seems like I'm only getting 30 or so mpg, but that just may be cause I like to go faster than I should..Thoughts on MPG ??
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 02:46:21 PM by wxpajw »

Offline Lannis

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2018, 02:48:31 PM »
Thanks for chiming in. Once I got the BMW I had lots to learn, it seems now I have more. 

The bike has not been rollerized. The chap I bought it from said he took it to his local MG dealer & basically said, yes it will need to be rollerized but it doesn't show the necessary wear to be eligible for warranty/recall work.  I did do some research/reading on the matter & figured w.4800 miles on it I'd have plenty of use out of it before it needed the upgrade & once I put sufficient miles on it it would be eligible.

I've considered the plugs &/or wires being the problem after reading about the prevalence of failure by not adhereing to proper removal procedure, but haven't done anything about it yet as once up to hwy speeds it really isn't a problem, I'll do the plug wire upgrades as PM w.new plugs at the same time.

Mostly wonder about oil brands if there is really a difference. I don't want there to be any warranty issue by using non-guzzi filter or some other brand of oil, but then again my school of thought is they, whoever they are, will do their best to wiggle out of responsibility if they can.  I too like doing all my own maintenance cause you just DO NOT what they do behind closed doors.

No difference in oil brands, just use the specified "quality 10W60" as the manual says and it'll be fine.

The "need to rollerize" will come without warning.   Without taking the top end apart and looking at the tappet faces, you will have no idea what condition the tappets are in.   Some are gone by 5000 miles, some go 35,000 miles, but by the time you have an "external" indication, like increasing valve lash between checks, the damage will have been done and the hard bits will have been pumped into your bearings.   They're ALL bad, so go ahead and get it done!

Lannis
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Offline Utrider

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2018, 02:58:25 PM »
Yeah, the mileage is directly proportionate to the turning of the wrist......  When I'm covering ground, 6th gear 5k on the tach for 3 tanks of gas, I get in the mid 30's.  If I'm just touring around and not bending the warp needle to much low 40's are pretty common.  Some of the guys who have played with the ignition maps are having some success with better economy.  The smile this thing induces above 5k is not worth the additional mileage to me, your mileage may vary..........lol

I didn't address your issue about packing stuff, I just have a small bag on the back of mine, with the big box panniers I have never lacked for storage.  Some of the guys like the big top cases, but for me I don't find it necessary.

As to oil, as Lannis said, any good 10w60 will do the trick.  I'm running Liqui Moly (sp) in mine and it seems to like it just fine.

Online pete roper

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2018, 05:53:53 PM »
OK, just a brief run down on things you need to know and do.

1.) Rollerisation.

Without removing a cambox, (The left one is easier on a small tank Stelvio.) and inspecting the tappet faces and cam lobes you won't know that the tappets are buggered. By the time they get noisy it is far, far too late. By your mileage I would expect there to be clear wear evident. The fact your bike is 'Sneezing' may also be an indicator but it's more likely to be something else I'll come to later.

People have lost their entire engines through tappet frag going through the engine at under 5,000 miles. It's rare but it happens. Don't screw around, rollerise now. All flat tappet top ends will fail, no ifs or buts and no it doesn't matter if you use a good oil and change it frequently.

2.) Throttlebodies.

The reason they were 'Rebuilt' is most likely because someone buggered about with the throttle stop screw. This should never be touched as the throttle bodies are set up on a flow bench by Webber-Marelli and the idle speed, which is hard coded into the ECU, is controlled by an air over idle valvecalled a stepper motor. Unfortunately many people and old-time mechanics can't get their heads around this and because the idle is supposed to be 1250RPM + or -50 they think this is too high so they try and move the throttle stop screw to lower the idle speed. Unfortunately all this does is make the stepper compensate for the decreased air flow and the idle will try and remain the same. BUT the only way the ECU knows how much air is going into the motor is by the throttle position and air pressure sensors. If the factory calibration is changed the ECU doesn't know that and it screws up the fueling across the range. It's less noticeable at wider throttle openings but it's still buggered. While it is possible to try and roughly recalibrate them as long as the linkage rod hasn't been screwed with and the TPS hasn't been re-set the only way to get them right again is on a flow bench with a comparison to an unmollested pair, or buy a new set.

Also check that both air bleeds aren't open. If they are it's not tuned properly.

3.) Forks.

The 50mm forks used on the small tank Stelvios have axle clamps that WILL fracture if the pinch bolts for the spindle are overtightened. This happened a lot early on when shaved apes monstered the 10mm hex head pinch bolts. The factory sent out a service bulletin on the matter and suggested swapping the hex heads to Allen head bolts because they are less easy to monster.

Look after your fork legs because replacements are no longer available.

4.) Swingarm bearings and shock linkages.

These are rarely greased adequately at the factory. Do it immediately, if not sooner! If you find the linkage bearings are shot it's cheaper to just replace the linkage, (Grease it before installation.) than replacing the individual bearings, races and seals.

I would strongly advise rollerising before embarking on any trip, especially if you are planning on going anywhere remote. Dying of thirst after having run out of your own urine to drink isn't a very nice way to go.

A few other things will probably come to me or be pointed out by others but that'll do for starters.

Pete

Offline wxpajw

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2018, 09:44:40 PM »
& what about spark plugs????

Online pete roper

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2018, 10:25:14 PM »
What about them?

I feel,we're being trolled.

Offline luthier

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2018, 10:28:05 PM »
Most likely with a username like that. Those ones generally don't get through unless they are recommended by someone we know.

Offline Lannis

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2018, 06:50:08 AM »
& what about spark plugs????

Spark plugs and oil; they're in the manual ....
When you're taking flak, it means you're over your target.

Offline wxpajw

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2018, 06:52:11 PM »
Only Trolls know trolls I guess.

Only asking about the oil cause the guzzi folks seem so anal about the oil they suggest & w.only a couple of plugs avail at 8$ ea. plus, geeze I thought my GS was high maintenance but this is ridiculous to have to worry about so much; pinch bolts, grease for shock linkages, tappets...etc etc.

I just want to make sure the thing holds up...  so go troll yourself,, I'll figure it all out myself
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 06:52:59 PM by wxpajw »

Offline John A

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2018, 09:13:21 PM »
Relax, nobody knows you yet. People here have been here a long time, maybe it's our way of getting to know you. Pete has given you valuable advice, heed it. Welcome to the madness !
John
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Offline fotoguzzi

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2018, 09:52:01 PM »
   so go troll yourself,, I'll figure it all out myself
Obviously you should have researched that model before purchase, how much did you shell out?

Pay attention to the Guru's advice.. or..come on back when your motor eats it on the way to Denver.. one of us will be glad to say told you so and then come get you with a trailer..
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 09:54:10 PM by fotoguzzi »
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Online EV11Jack

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2018, 10:27:01 PM »
Only Trolls know trolls I guess.

Only asking about the oil cause the guzzi folks seem so anal about the oil they suggest & w.only a couple of plugs avail at 8$ ea. plus, geeze I thought my GS was high maintenance but this is ridiculous to have to worry about so much; pinch bolts, grease for shock linkages, tappets...etc etc.

I just want to make sure the thing holds up...  so go troll yourself,, I'll figure it all out myself
I believe that you owe Pete an apology.
Cheers, Jack
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1980 Honda CX500 C (re--building, but looking for someone to take it over). Having too much fun riding the EV11. FINALLY SOLD THIS ONE. I'D LIKE TO GET ANOTHER ONE AS IT WAS LIKE A BABY MG.

Online pete roper

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2018, 11:50:54 PM »
Nope. Why? He's either a Ruskibot or someone who's made his own decision. Either way he owes nobody anything but he would be well advised to take the free advice he was offered if he is genuine.

I just hope I don't have to hear whining and snivelling when things go tits.

Pete

Offline chuck peterson

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2018, 05:56:47 AM »
"Repair it when something needs repairing..."

Ok. We know where you stand. Go kill it and we'll talk repairs while vacuuming your wallet when you get back....

Youve asked for and been given the best advise possible by the best source possible around this neck of the woods. We all hope you take it, but that's entirely up to you.

Everyone else will start emailing you for Stelvio parts after the motor is toast, cheap bastids, heathen scavenger guzzi vultures....

I can see them now circling above your location.... :popcorn:

Seriously we hope you ride that sucker 200,000 miles with no problems. I'm embarrassed this problem rears its head and sullied the Guzzi reputation for longevity, letting it tarnish the experience for you.

But we are all acutely aware of it and hope you can work around to a solution.

I'd suggest your skip at lower Rpms might be from running too low on the Rpms. Drop two gears and call me in the morning.  Try staying up in 4-5k Rpms, not 2-3k. 5th gear is more for above legal limits across the Great Plains. If she's sneezing and coughing your likely too low. Beat on it, it gets better unless it breaks...oh wait

That is unless the motor has started to send vast oceans of shredded metal bits throughout the oil passages into tiny crevices, then you can just keep riding it till it melts, no problem...!

Someone here has a trailer near St Louis I'm sure. Give us a call...
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Offline John A

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Re: Old Subject New Guzzi Owner
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2018, 08:56:45 AM »
So it's a shock to find out your new bike will need two grand worth of repairs but when it's done you'll have a Very Good motorcycle that will give you years of service  and that I personally wouldn't mind owning. Like Brad said, it would have helped to know beforehand but it's the price of knowledge.
John
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