CARC Oil Light

[Kiwi_Roy]

The oil light on my Griso comes on for the light show but not if I wait before starting, I got to thinking how smart is the dash, does it just cycle the light or does it check to make sure the switch is closed also.
The stand light stays on if it is deployed then why not the oil pressure light?
How do you know if the switch is Ok?

I posted this question elsewhere, I was told if the switch is not closed at rest it will throw up the service symbol but the stand switch doesn't do that.

I maintain the light should stay on if the pressure is low, mine doesn't but the wrench symbol requires some digging, not an option if you don't have the manual available.

I have no confidence in the Guzzi switches and it's fairly difficult to access to get a meter across it.

[guzzisteve]

If you grnd it, lite comes on. IF it's broken it doesn't work at all or stays on all the time.
That's ALL I need to know, the rest is all bull. I could care less HOW they think or design stuff.
Customers call me and bitch about why they did this or that, I say call the 800# not me.

There are members here that have gone through all the dash and ECU logic, maybe they can answer.
You need to memorize all the mode button functions, and the service code to get into the menues.

[Kiwi_Roy]

If you grnd it, lite comes on. IF it's broken it doesn't work at all or stays on all the time.
That's ALL I need to know, the rest is all bull. I could care less HOW they think or design stuff.
Customers call me and bitch about why they did this or that, I say call the 800# not me.

There are members here that have gone through all the dash and ECU logic, maybe they can answer.
You need to memorize all the mode button functions, and the service code to get into the menues.

Shesh, what side of the bed did you get out of this morning?
I asked a simple question, does the light stay on or not?
For a long time I just watched the light show and assumed it was checking the switch, then one day I wondered why I never see it outside the light show, is it just a silly lamp test, not checking the switch at all?
I see there's an error code




I'm not sure why this doesn't print out from here, it's not printable from the WSManual either, I re-typed it in word so it's on one page if anyone wants a copy or pdf. send me a PM or e-mail

[beetle]

I've already told you it doesn't, and the reason why.  Don't believe me?

[Kiwi_Roy]

Ok, ok, don't go getting your knickers in a twist

For those of you that don't frequent the Griso forum here's what Beetle said.

"The oil pressure sensor is normally closed. Oil pressure while the engine is running keeps it open. The dash startup test checks it's closed. If it was open before the engine is running, you will get a SERVICE warning. If it stays closed after the engine is running, you will get a SERVICE warning, and the light should come one. The dash has smarts to know this, and it's state is tested at switch-on"

The average owner is not partial to this information, the owners manual seems to indicate otherwise.
Page 32 of my Griso manual  states "If the engine oil pressure light remains On after the start etc etc" this seems to indicate it would be On before the start.
I'm not arguing what you say is not correct, but saying don't just take the light show for granted.

The way to check this logic is pull the wire off before turning the key On and short the sensor to chassis while the engine is running, that's not easy to do.
I still say the light should stay on as long as the key is on and the pressure is low.

[Muzz]

I still say the light should stay on as long as the key is on and the pressure is low.

What Beetle says makes sense BUT, what you say is what just about every car manufacturer sets up their system to. I suspect that most people would be trained to think your way and not the Guzzi way. <shrug>

[Phang]

What Beetle says makes sense BUT, what you say is what just about every car manufacturer sets up their system to. I suspect that most people would be trained to think your way and not the Guzzi way. <shrug>

my 2012 car doesn't has an engine oil pressure warning light, it tells you in English/language selected by the owner on the screen when there is something not right with the oil pressure/volume

that way, I think the customer service department probably get much less calls from

"oh, my car shows a big red warning light that looks like a aladdin lamp every time I turn on the key, is that something wrong with my car?"

than

"hey, my car doesn't has a oil pressure warning light that stays ON before cranking and goes OFF after engine started"

[Kiwi_Roy]

Yes we are living in a different age i guess, we cant be trusted with too much information.

[Phang]

Roy, I guess the oil warning idiot light on our CARC bikes is transitional, just to keep old farts like us happy with something that we are familiar with 

[beetle]

     

       

[pete roper]

Long story short. If you get a really serious oil pressure problem you’ll bet a bloody great oil van displayed at the bottom of the dash.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Hey, I've been working with logic systems of one form or another for my whole working life, someone out there has a document that describes the logic inside the dash, sooner or later it will come to light.
I'm sure before long guys will figure out how to access the logic area and be able to change that to make the bike even better just as Beetle has done for the maps.
For example display all the sensor information
Roll your own gear indicator
Self canceling direction indicators.

Throwing up a wrench symbol with some cryptic code only available after lots button pushing is BS from 25 years ago.

Meanwhile the factory is still adding relays trying to beat "Startus Interuptus", we won't see much from there I'm afraid.

[bad Chad]

Long story short. If you get a really serious oil pressure problem you�ll bet a bloody great oil van displayed at the bottom of the dash.

I get the service warning at least once a week, it's the faulty oil sensor.  It's kind of hard to get to and change on the Breva, so I have been told, so I just ignore it.  It doesn't hang around too long.    As professor Pete says, if there were a real oil pressure issue an actual oil pressure warning would display!

[Kiwi_Roy]

Is the switch a genuine Breva part?
Another Breva owner wrote elsewhere
"I went through a lot of oil pressure switches on my Breva 1100.  I bought a bunch of Guzzi California switches before I owned a Breva, but they would last sometimes as little as 3 weeks before not closing properly on engine shutdown.  When trying to start, I got the SERVICE warning of death right after switching the ignition on.

I had to start the bike, allow it to run for about a minute, and then shut it down.  When the ignition was then switched back on, the error was cleared.  It became a pain in the ass.

Only when I fitted a pressure switch with the genuine part number for the Breva 1100 was the problem solved.  I have no idea why I had issues, a pressure switch is exactly that, nothing more nothing less"
 
To which I responded
"It may have had a resistor to check the wiring eg closed Voltage 3 Volts. open Voltage 9 Volts anything else trouble, I have seen that before" The Voltage levels are just a guess, sometimes it's looking for minimum current to verify the switch is connected not just open.
Before the Breva I think the dashes were just lights and relays, the microprocessor display allows all sorts of diagnostics not described in the manual

[guzzisteve]

Roy, Sorry bout being grumpy.

[Kiwi_Roy]

That's ok, I have my off days too, I POd Beetle for sure still he 's probably used to Kiwis.

[Wayne Orwig]

Next thing you know, they will take away our kick starter.

Wait, never mind.   

[drdwb]

On my 07 Norge if I’m running a bit low on oil, and I park it on the side stand with engine running,when I start it on the side stand the oil light comes on and stays on. But if I hold it up, off the side stand with engine running than turn it off and restart,the light goes off. But if I shut it down before putting it on the stand I don’t get a light. Other wise the only lights that stay on after I start the engine are the ABS light and neutral both go off immediately after I’m in gear and moving. This may not address your question but it’s what I see.

[Muzz]

Next thing you know, they will take away our kick starter.

Wait, never mind.   

That IS funny!

I booted the bitch Matchy for some 25 years before I got a bike with electric start. Don't miss it, especially with a dodgy right hip.

[beetle]

That's ok, I have my off days too, I POd Beetle for sure still he 's probably used to Kiwis.

You didn't get me PO'd. I just don't get your disquietude of the way the light works. It works as designed, and quite logically IMO. No light = No problem.

Where's the confusion?

[Wayne Orwig]

You didn't get me PO'd. I just don't get your disquietude of the way the light works. It works as designed, and quite logically IMO. No light = No problem.

Where's the confusion?

Where is the like button?

It is testing if the switch has failed, and it is testing if the pressure has failed.

[bad Chad]

I'm just asking, but how often/likely does an 1064cc catastrophically drop pressure?  I've not been around these parts for generations,  but nor have i heard of it.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The neutral light comes on and stays on if the bike is in neutral.
The fuel light comes on and stays on if the fuel is low.
The stand light comes on and stays on if the stand is out.
So is it unreasonable to question the oil light not coming on when the oil pressure is low?
Is it not reasonable to expect the manual to describe how it works instead of saying the opposite?
I accept your explanation of how it works for now but sooner or later i will test it more fully.
BTW i think its good we had this discussion on here others will benefit.

And Wayne, the old way checked the switch as well, if you didn't see the light you knew the switch or bulb was bad.

On site commissioning i spend weeks checking logic, lives depend on it, nothing is taken for granted, every interlock is  dry checked then the more important ones again during water batching, i guess thats why i am being such a pain in the asperdestra, sorry.

We all know how unreliable the Guzzi pressure switches are, it would make sense to use an analog pressure transducer in this case, and do the switching inside the dash.

[Wayne Orwig]

And Wayne, the old way checked the switch as well, if you didn't see the light you knew the switch or bulb was bad.

Yes, but for someone that does not understand the oil light system, it may not mean anything. Like putting an ammeter on the battery. Great info if you know what it means. Pretty pointless info overload to someone that does not understand it.

In fact I know of people that ignored a failed switch that never turned on the light because the switch had failed opened. The new logic would turn on the light indicating a failure, if it opened.
 
But then I also known people that drive around with the light on full time, and they simply say "I need to fix that some day".

[beetle]

The neutral light comes on and stays on if the bike is in neutral.
The fuel light comes on and stays on if the fuel is low.
The stand light comes on and stays on if the stand is out.

Working the way they're designed to. Your point?

So is it unreasonable to question the oil light not coming on when the oil pressure is low?

No, but it's been explained. Raging against Guzzi's logic will not change it. It is what it is. Get over it.

Is it not reasonable to expect the manual to describe how it works instead of saying the opposite?

Where? I've checked several manuals and can't find what you say.

I accept your explanation of how it works for now but sooner or later i will test it more fully.
BTW i think its good we had this discussion on here others will benefit.

It won't change anything. Have fun.

[Phang]

I think it depends on how you see the oil light and how the manufacturer wanted you to see it

as a status light, it should light up before the engine is started, to reflect the lack of oil pressure

as a warning light, it should only light up when there is a problem

[Idontwantapickle]

Is the switch a genuine Breva part?
Another Breva owner wrote elsewhere
"I went through a lot of oil pressure switches on my Breva 1100.  I bought a bunch of Guzzi California switches before I owned a Breva, but they would last sometimes as little as 3 weeks before not closing properly on engine shutdown.  When trying to start, I got the SERVICE warning of death right after switching the ignition on.

I had to start the bike, allow it to run for about a minute, and then shut it down.  When the ignition was then switched back on, the error was cleared.  It became a pain in the ass.

Only when I fitted a pressure switch with the genuine part number for the Breva 1100 was the problem solved.  I have no idea why I had issues, a pressure switch is exactly that, nothing more nothing less"
 
To which I responded
"It may have had a resistor to check the wiring eg closed Voltage 3 Volts. open Voltage 9 Volts anything else trouble, I have seen that before" The Voltage levels are just a guess, sometimes it's looking for minimum current to verify the switch is connected not just open.
Before the Breva I think the dashes were just lights and relays, the microprocessor display allows all sorts of diagnostics not described in the manual

Looks like you answered your own question.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Working the way they're designed to. Your point?


No, but it's been explained. Raging against Guzzi's logic will not change it. It is what it is. Get over it.


Where? I've checked several manuals and can't find what you say.


It won't change anything. Have fun.

No, but it's been explained. Raging against Guzzi's logic will not change it. It is what it is. Get over it.
You explained it to me, am I not allowed to question your word, you also told me the logic is Marelli secret squirrel stuff ( i may not have quoted you exactly)
How would you feel if someone told you the maps are not to be modified?, you are a map guy, I am a logic guy, if I can find a way I will modify the logic, thats part of what I do for a living. At the very least I will eventually find out what the logic is, I'm not just referring to the stupid red light.


Where? I've checked several manuals and can't find what you say.
My 2007 Manual page 32 under the heading Engine oil pressure warning light says
Comes on when the ignition switch is set to (run) with the engine stopped a lamp test (nothing about testing the switch)
If the light does not come on in this phase contact a Moto Guzzi Authorised dealer
If the engine oil pressure warning light (oil can)remains on after the engine has started or comes on during the normal operation of the engine, this
means that the engine oil pressure in the circuit is insufficient. In this case stop the engine immediately and contact a Moto Guzzi Authorised dealer.

Could you direct me to the Moto Guzzi or Marreli document that tells us how you say it works?
I've been reading too. I couldn't find anything about the logic.
This is the exact reason I bought a Cliff Jefferies kit for my VII Sport, I don't like black boxes


It won't change anything. Have fun, I agree on that at least

[beetle]

You explained it to me, am I not allowed to question your word, you also told me the logic is Marelli secret squirrel stuff ( i may not have quoted you exactly)

Question all you like. I am also allowed to correct you. By Marelli Secret Squirrel Stuff (sounds like something I'd say), I meant there's no White Paper or code available. It's Guzzi or Marelli proprietary.

How would you feel if someone told you the maps are not to be modified?, you are a map guy, I am a logic guy, if I can find a way I will modify the logic, thats part of what I do for a living. At the very least I will eventually find out what the logic is, I'm not just referring to the stupid red light.

When did I say the code is not be modified? I didn't. Please, hack the code and make it do whatever you want. I all I did was tell you how it currently works. You may think it shouldn't work like that, but that's how it is.

My 2007 Manual page 32 under the heading Engine oil pressure warning light says
Comes on when the ignition switch is set to (run) with the engine stopped a lamp test (nothing about testing the switch)
If the light does not come on in this phase contact a Moto Guzzi Authorised dealer
If the engine oil pressure warning light (oil can)remains on after the engine has started or comes on during the normal operation of the engine, this
means that the engine oil pressure in the circuit is insufficient. In this case stop the engine immediately and contact a Moto Guzzi Authorised dealer.

Could you direct me to the Moto Guzzi or Marreli document that tells us how you say it works?

Here are some screen shots from the 2005 & 2007 Owners Manuals. On page 32, oil pressure doesn't rate a mention. The others are pertinent to this discussion. I guess your P.32 is the same as my P.13.
I think you've interpreted it incorrectly. Yes, I understand you work with logic systems. It's OK to be wrong.  Please, no references to my huge smarmy ego.

The last is from the 8V course, but since the only difference between the 1100 and 1200 is the engine, and two minor wiring differences, I consider it pertinent. You may discard as you see fit.   

I've been reading too. I couldn't find anything about the logic.
This is the exact reason I bought a Cliff Jefferies kit for my VII Sport, I don't like black boxes[/color]

I've studied and tested ECU extensively. I've tested and worked on several versions of the CARC series to see how they tick. They all work the same. Every 'dash' (I hate that term, and prefer 'instruments) acts like I've told you, unless there is a fault or error condition. I don't feel compelled to impress you with what I do for a living, and you are free to discard any information I provide, as I feel you will. However, this will be my last post on this particular subject.