Author Topic: Biofuel  (Read 1731 times)

Offline yogidozer

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Re: Biofuel
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2018, 10:59:46 PM »
back when I had a choice to use regular gas and the 10%, I was doing a lot of commuting.
I made comparisons, kept track of my miles as I was reimbursed for mileage.
there is a 10% loss using the ethanol mix.
and as far as problems? as any lawn & garden repair shop or marine repair shop
But you can believe anything you like, we don't have a choice any longer

Offline Loop Tonti EV

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Re: Biofuel
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2018, 02:43:47 AM »
On my Eurovan, gas mileage dropped from an average of 25 mpg to an average of 22 mpg, so that's a bit more than 10%. Back in the '90s, before we had E10 all the time - only "oxygenated" gas during the Winter months - my Audis (5000S and 80 Quattro) would regularly drop 2-3 mpg when the supply was switched the "Winter blend". That was right around 10% for each, so my experience with fuel injected, knock sensor equipped automobile engines seems to agree with Lannis' experience.

The same can not be said for any of my carbureted, air-cooled, "low-tech" motorcycles.

I agree, my wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 4 liter 6 will consistently get 18.3 mpg on non ethanol regular when we can find it. With E10 regular it drops to 16.4 consistently. That is a 10 percent drop. My Ram 1500 gets similar results.


Offline Muzz

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Re: Biofuel
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2018, 03:12:39 AM »
  If it did, then running straight ethanol ought to yield 0 mpg!   

The book that came with my bro's Vincent Comet had table in the rear for what to run with whatever state of tune.

Main jet size on standard petrol   #180
Main jet size on pure ethanol       #1800

Might not get 0 mpg but I can guarantee it would be pretty close! :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Offline ChuckH

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Re: Biofuel
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2018, 04:44:09 AM »
IIRC, the octane level of Ethanol is 100.  It's used by the refineries to combine with lower octane levels of gasoline they refine and end up with the 87, 89, etc octane levels they sell at the pumps.   

As has been said, E10 reduces the engine power level by ~5% and the fuel usage increases by a similar amount.

My 2007 R1200R BMW has a flexible fuel strip in the tank that measures the fuel level.  Apparently, the BMW engineers didn't realize we use E10 gasoline in the US, nor did they realize the corrosive effects of that fuel on the coating they used to protect the wires on that strip. 

Long story, short -- the E10 gasoline eats the coating and shorts out the strip.  Sometimes it happens in a couple of months, other times it may take a year or so.  Because of this repeated failure mode, BMW agreed to warranty the fuel strip, and a couple of related parts, for 12 years from the date of original purchase on the models using this fuel strip.  Warranty cost to replace is near $400.  I'm on my fifth fuel strip in the three years I've owned this bike.

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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: Biofuel
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2018, 05:13:19 AM »
I always surprised and wonder why some report zero effects with E10 on older equipment.  Having spent several years associated with a M/C shop that also dealt with small lawn equipment, snowmobiles, and such how busy the mechanics were every spring (or fall, depending on the equipment) fixing issues specific to ethanol fuel.  We would, on a regular basis, see plenty of carb issues, fuel line issues, tank corrosion, and the occasional other issue.

These things were much less with the customers who use(ed) stabilizer on a regular basis.  I don't discount that there are several variables involved but it was very clear that one dominant constant was ethanol fuel.
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Online Rough Edge racing

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Re: Biofuel
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2018, 05:27:47 AM »
 I use the 90 octane non ethanol in my bikes , chain saws and small engines...In my 99 Jeep and 09 Ranger it's the 87 E10...I have tried  non ethanol in vehicles and really didn't notice any difference between it and E10 in terms of performance or mileage
 In my opinion, some reported problems with E10 fuel is with poorly maintained and tuned  equipment....I work on vintage British bikes for a few people and for some it's the same damn problem every year..The carb pilot jet is plugged from evaporated E10 gas..Owners just can't manage to drain the fuel from the carbs over the winter..
  Hot rod guys are getting more power than ever using E10 pump fuel. They learned to adapt to the different fuel through engine tuning..Adapt or just drive an electric vehicle...
I ride junk, some of it actually goes fast

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Biofuel
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2018, 10:24:44 AM »
I always surprised and wonder why some report zero effects with E10 on older equipment.  Having spent several years associated with a M/C shop that also dealt with small lawn equipment, snowmobiles, and such how busy the mechanics were every spring (or fall, depending on the equipment) fixing issues specific to ethanol fuel.  We would, on a regular basis, see plenty of carb issues, fuel line issues, tank corrosion, and the occasional other issue.


Back before anyone knew about ethanol added to gasoline, every spring, a lot of small engines needed the varnished carb cleaned, and the fuel system cleaned out. But now, it is blamed on ethanol.
Maybe it truely is a bit worse now. I have not really seen it.
My model airplane motors run on ethanol. Never had much issue with them setting over the winter. No aluminum carb issues. Only issue was synthetic oil. It did not protect from rust as well as the good ole castor oil.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 12:46:15 PM by Wayne Orwig »
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Online bad Chad

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Re: Biofuel
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2018, 11:59:30 AM »
My wife's car can run E85 that's  up to 85% ethanol.   When I have run it with 85 the mileage has dropped off by about a third,a significant loss!    most of the time I find the price for E 85 needs to be at least a dollar cheaper than regular and almost always that is not the case it doesn't make financial sense to run it.

 The cars that run in the IndyCar series run hundred percent ethanol fuel. Somehow their 700 hp engines managed to get at least a few miles per gallon, I suspect a typical automobile would do much better
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Offline Toecutter

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Re: Biofuel
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2018, 12:19:49 PM »
There's gotta be a reason that every small engine & tractor repair joint I know of recommends high test/ no octane fuel (again, to reiterate... high test fuel around here contains no ethanol... the stations need to have "10% ethanol"  In their fuel, so most run 10% in regular, 5% in midgrade and 0% in high octane).


I think we're seeing a time when the two industries aren't exactly in sync. I see more and more motorized tools and vehicles suggesting "no/ low ethanol" fuels, while simultanteously seeing a push for higher ethanol in our fuel. Something's gotta give.

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