Author Topic: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.  (Read 11621 times)

Offline cliffrod

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2018, 05:14:20 PM »
It's all apples vs oranges.  it's a completely different world.  Millennials will do what they want to do, just like older people do & did.

30+ yrs ago, you rode/drove what you wanted, built the way you wanted it built and basically paid cash face-to face to people who you personally found & met for the parts.  Ignorance was truly bliss, because an old bike was a cheap way to have fun.  It wasn't seen through Barret-Jackson glasses, Internet forums or eBay/craigslist/PayPal.  if you were so inclined to ride old Italian bikes, you better have a lot of self-motivation and independence AND spare $$ because almost everything else out there was cheaper and used  easier-to-find parts & accurate info.   

Now you know what blather is in the Ny Times this morning (even if you don't really know) and have a real time online discussion about it with people all over the USA, essentially for free.  Back then, this many long distance calls during the day would cost more than that cheap bike....  And you couldn't spend much or any time during work doing it, either. 

Worry about your own bowl of corn flakes.  And pay attention to what's going on, just in case you can learn something.  jmho.
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Online Gliderjohn

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2018, 05:22:51 PM »
I don't know, every generation has new things to spend money on. I graduated from HS in 73. Besides a car the other high expense was stereo equipment and records. Both were expensive when compared to what you get for the buck now in electronics and music. My first stereo cost me around $250 and was at best a mid-level system which in todays dollars would be over $1,500. New release albums were usually in the $4.99 range which is around $30 today!
I didn't get my first motorcycle until I was 23 (1979) and both my wife and I were working professional jobs.  That was a used lightly used 77 Suzuki GS400 which I paid $800 for which today would be about $2,800.
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Offline reidy

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2018, 06:51:49 PM »
I think the graph that showed the disposable income by age has a lot to do with why millennial's are less into motorcycles.

When I first started into road bikes in the late 80's I could buy an old second hand bike in running condition for a small portion of my wage. This was enough to make me an addict. I have always had a bike for most of my life and a few years ago at 45 I purchased my first new bike. I finally had enough disposable income.

I have always liked older styled bikes but in Australia most of them go for ridiculous amounts of money. I recently when to a bike rally aimed at older bikes and I felt very young. Talking to people their a lot of them had large collections and had the cash to buy more.

I don't see a lot of reasonably priced second hand bikes for a new starter these days. There are some cheap 10 year old bikes that would cost a heap to get to a reasonable standard. Older easy to work on stuff often sells for a lot of money and is purchased buy those with the cash and want what the struggled to have 40 years ago. Nothing wrong with this and it is just an observation.

I am curious what will happen in the next 20 years to the vintage (pre 1985) bike market. It would appear at the moment as some of the previously mentioned older collectors start to die of there bikes are sold to similar people with disposable income or as an investment because old bikes are worth good money and increasing in price every year. What happens when the people that love the 60's and 70's bikes are not buying and dying. The price starts to fall and the investors sell up before the crash.

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Offline Guzzi Gal

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2018, 10:17:25 PM »
Modern bikes are so much better in many ways. The one thing that I don't like about certain modern bikes, is the praying mantis look of some of them.




Agreed.  Too buggy and birdy by far.
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Offline blackcat

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2018, 01:26:14 AM »
The majority of the V7 riders that I see almost daily in NYC are millennials.

Also from the article:  "Boomers were supposed to fix things, build things, save things for future generations"
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Offline Mr Pootle

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2018, 02:36:59 AM »
Here, accomodation costs for millennials is out of hand. I bought my first house, a two bedroom back-to-back, in the late 70s, for £3,500. I was earning £5,000 pa. The identical house next door went recently for £133,500. This in a northern city, not in the wealthy south east, where house prices have gone through the roof. My 29 year old daughter got a good degree from a good university, and has a good job, but the maximum mortgage she can get is £110,000. She's still living with us.
I heard a young man tell a radio interviewer that his rent takes between 40% and 45% of his salary. He's living in a flat, sharing with two others.
The blame lies on the shoulders of many of my generation. We've paid off our own mortgages and have inherited the mortgage-free properties of our parents. We've invested that windfall in property, which we let to the young, who we can outbid. A good friend of mine considers himself left-wing, but has seven properties in Leeds which he's letting.
I can see the problem. I wish I could see the solution.

Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2018, 04:31:14 AM »
Well first, just because there is lower unemployment doesn't mean they're well paying jobs. I **think** the young people have less disposable income than previous generations. As a kid, I recall very few moms working. Now most families have both parents working as a norm.

Another factor that I think makes a difference, is the cost of ownership. When many of us were young, cars didn't get the fuel economy they do today. A motorcycle was inexpensive transportation. It was simply an economical way to get around. I some cases, it served needs as well as wants. I think bikes have moved more to the recreational side of things than they used to be. The least expensive vehicle I have to operate is my Subaru. That's all in. (Purchase price, insurance, maint.)

Anyone living in a less than perfect motorcycle environment, with little or no disposable income will not be able to justify a bike.

I don't believe the young people have ruined anything. Modifying cars and bikes go back to their inception. The young people are dealing with things as best they can. Before you can buy toys, you need food, shelter, clothing, and in many cases, transportation that can be used year around. Needs not wants. 

I do agree that there are other things these days that also compete for that dollar.

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« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 04:33:08 AM by Zoom Zoom »

Offline ChuckH

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2018, 06:24:47 AM »
I don't think there are as many Millennials as the Pew research indicates.  Back when I was a working stiff, I did a lot of reading/studying about the different generations because I was managing workers who were very much younger/different than me.  Here was my understanding of the various generations.

Silents -- born '27-'45, now 73 to 91 years old, no knowledge of size but small.
Boomers -- born '46-'64, now 54 to 72 years old, about 70 Million of them.
Gen X -- born '65-'83, now 35 to 53 years old, about 60 million of them.
Gen Y initially, now apparently known as Millennials -- born '84-'02, now 16 to 34 years old.  My reading showed this was a small generation (<20 million).  Pew is showing them at >70 million and growing.  That can't happen, unless they're counting people who were not born here.

Here's my $.02.  The Boomers lived high and fast while working and weren't financially ready to retire at a normal retirement age.  (The recession of '08 didn't help since the value of their home, their primary retirement fund in many cases, dropped dramatically.)  Consequently, in many cases they're working well into their 70's.  Gen Xers got their education and jobs but are stuck in lower level/lower pay positions because The Boomers have not yet retired.  The Millennials with their education completed are now stuck at the bottom of the job ladder, many with large loans to repay.  They were also raised in an era of exploding technology, so spending a large percent of their discretionary income on the various electronics is "normal".  Motorcycles, unless they were raised in a family of "gear-heads", fall to the bottom of the priority list.
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Offline oilhed

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2018, 08:30:15 AM »
Silents -- born '27-'45, now 73 to 91 years old, no knowledge of size but small.
Boomers -- born '46-'64, now 54 to 72 years old, about 70 Million of them.
Gen X -- born '65-'83, now 35 to 53 years old, about 60 million of them.
Gen Y initially, now apparently known as Millennials -- born '84-'02, now 16 to 34 years old.  My reading showed this was a small generation (<20 million).  Pew is showing them at >70 million and growing.  That can't happen, unless they're counting people who were not born here.

I think when they changed from Gen Y to Millennials they just keep counting, no cut-off.  A baby born tomorrow is a Millennial just like my kids, born in the 90's.  Millennials should be born after Jan 1, 2001
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Online Tusayan

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2018, 10:13:02 AM »
Here, accomodation costs for millennials is out of hand. I bought my first house, a two bedroom back-to-back, in the late 70s, for �3,500. I was earning �5,000 pa. The identical house next door went recently for �133,500. This in a northern city, not in the wealthy south east, where house prices have gone through the roof. My 29 year old daughter got a good degree from a good university, and has a good job, but the maximum mortgage she can get is �110,000. She's still living with us.
I heard a young man tell a radio interviewer that his rent takes between 40% and 45% of his salary. He's living in a flat, sharing with two others. The blame lies on the shoulders of many of my generation. We've paid off our own mortgages and have inherited the mortgage-free properties of our parents. We've invested that windfall in property, which we let to the young, who we can outbid. A good friend of mine considers himself left-wing, but has seven properties in Leeds which he's letting.
I can see the problem. I wish I could see the solution.

The solution for your daughter is to move somewhere with a healthier economic environment. 

Offline rocker59

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2018, 10:22:39 AM »
A 2018 report from Pew Research Center defines millennials as born from 1981 to 1996.

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Offline AZach

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2018, 11:23:06 AM »
Figured id throw my two cents in as well as a millennial. we aren't the ones would are making the design changes to new bikes it's people older than us that think that's what we want, once a trend starts it snowballs to everyone else. I had an 07 Ducati monster that cost way too much and had to throw a big  monthly payment at it to pay it off in a year. I sold it to buy my 81 G5 and absolutely love this bike. And to the point of buying expensive phones no one I know my age can flat out pay for one they buy it through a company like AT&T or Verizon on a monthly payment plan and end up paying for it for 18-24 months and paying interest. My phone was 600 and paid for it with PayPal credit with 0% interest for 6 months. Everyone i know my age doesn't have a savings if they do it's not more than a grand or two. Part of the problem is the lack in trade skills, a guy can't go and get an apprenticeship and be making 1000 a week in 2 years. I got lucky and found a job that I could teach myself to weld and machine. But now I'm rambling, growth and change is inevitable people that want things to stay the same their whole lives are what causes stagnation. If you don't like a new bike buy an old one and spend the same amount to restore it. If you don't like fancy lunches eat at a local dinner. The best thing about now is there are options not everyone has to like the same things. I know Chuck in Indiana will agree, the amount of breweries that are around now is a fantastic change and most are ran and created by older millennials. 
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Offline mjptexas

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2018, 12:22:21 PM »
the modern young person is facing a vastly different world than we did... hell, in the 90s when I went to university, my tuition was about $3800 a year. So, it makes sense that luxury items (like motorcycles) would be in a  transition period.

When I went to the university in the 70's I paid $1,500/year for tuition and room & board.
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Offline oilhed

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2018, 12:55:28 PM »
When I went to the university in the 70's I paid $1,500/year for tuition and room & board.

That's a good point.  I went to community college in 1982 and tuition was $140/semester.  Min. wage was $3.50/hour.

My son went to community college in 2012 and tuition was $1,400/semester.  Min. wage was $7/hour!
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Offline Testarossa

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2018, 01:51:03 PM »
Miraculously, I can agree with almost all the points made above -- an indicator that Millennials face a complex set of issues compared to what we faced.

I went to a premier private university but tuition was low enough that my dad could handle it on a professor's salary, and I graduated debt-free. My first jobs didn't pay much but I could afford rent and a good used motorcycle cost less than a month's pay.

My 28-year-old daughter graduated a state university with plenty of debt, enough that I sold off my airplane to pay it. Job options are much more limited than they were for me but real estate costs are out of sight. At the same time there are many more options for use of her leisure time. I could go hiking, climbing, skiing, cycling, canoeing, motorcycling and travel on the cheap, and/or spend money on albums. She can do those things PLUS everything electronic (and broadband internet/cable/cell service at a combined $200 to $300/month). Those leisure-time options can easily preclude wrenching on old machinery, so the old motorcycle looks less attractive. Her friends may choose to apply those mechanical skills to fooling around with cheap drones, robots and 3D printing.

There were a lot of things I couldn't afford and one of them was a new motorcycle (or car). Same for my kid.

The disparities in income between retired folks and young working people is a relatively new phenomenon (the Social Security business model is built on the assumption that working people have more money than retirees). The disparity appears to drive the dramatic split in the road-bike market between $20,000 cruisers/sport tourers/"adventure bikes" and $8,000 retrorides. The future for young people may very well be $6000 singles made in India, Thailand and China but styled like '60s-era Eurobikes. And for our group of old-bike fanatics, that's good news. When I can no longer horse a 500 lb bike around the barn and get sick of maintaining the 400 lb vintage, I can see myself wobbling into the sunset on an Enfield or China-made Morini.

That all pretty much applies to young folks living in and around cities on the coasts. Out here in rural Murrica kids still manage to acquire used dirt bikes, ATVs, badly abused 25-year-old Japanese road bikes and clapped-out trucks. The new KTMs and Beemers are all just passing thru.
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Offline bodine99

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2018, 03:45:38 PM »
Spent last Thurs..- Mon. at the Barber Vintage Event. Millennials both male & female there in force. They were riding vintage of all brands and newer Bonny's, MG V-7's & Cafer's,  Ducati Monsters & 748's. The Ace Corner was full with all age groups and really bitchin bikes. Spent most of Fri. in the museum they in there checking out the awesome displays. Seems like there is/are plenty out there who dig motorbikes

Offline Mr Pootle

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2018, 04:53:34 PM »
The solution for your daughter is to move somewhere with a healthier economic environment.
And where might that be? And, of course, every other millennial living in the UK and caught by the high price of property, either to buy or rent, would need to move with her to this Shangri La.

Offline Mr Pootle

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2018, 05:04:21 PM »
When I went to the university in the 70's I paid $1,500/year for tuition and room & board.
When I went to university at the back end of the 60s we weren't charged for tuition, and we got a maintenance grant based on our parents' income. But only 10% of the generation went to university. Now, students are charged £9,000 a year for tuition.
If an EU citizen goes to study in another EU country, tuition is paid by the Erasmus scheme.  The daughter's boyfriend was offered a place for a Master's Degree at The University of Sheffield and The University of Copenhagen. The two year course in Sheffield would have cost him £18,000 in tuition fees. Copenhagen is more expensive to live and drink in than Sheffield, but tuition was Paid by the scheme. £18,000 buys a lot of beer.

Offline Darren Williams

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2018, 05:48:55 PM »
Lot of the Millennials I know spend lots on their technology devices. The difference I see is they are into electronics like Boomers were with machines. They also spend serious money on their kayaks or pedal bikes and spend considerable leisure time outdoors. All age groups around here spend a good bit of time at lakes and parks, biking and hiking and such.

I really don't think they are that much different, just more into what is popular at this period of time. In my younger days a good stereo was essential, same as today. It's just today the stereo is a good set of headphone and their smart phone device that also does video! Remember that motorcycling in the US has always been a small subset of the population.
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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2018, 09:30:02 PM »
And where might that be? And, of course, every other millennial living in the UK and caught by the high price of property, either to buy or rent, would need to move with her to this Shangri La.

Outside of Europe, based on my own life experience.  A good education makes that feasible, or I wouldn't suggest it. My wife and I own four houses (three outside of Europe) in preparation for future retirement income and I started with nothing, and inherited nothing.  You have to do what most others in the UK don't do, and leave.  Or compete for limited land resources at relatively low income for the rest of your life.  There are just too many people for the land area.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 11:32:19 PM by Tusayan »

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2018, 06:16:11 AM »
When I went to the university in the 70's I paid $1,500/year for tuition and room & board.

 I was drafted into the Army in 1966.....In 1972 I quit a decent paying job, about $5 bucks an hour, and went to a state college on the GI Bill...I didn't like the jobs the 4 year degree would get me and became a skilled tradesmen....I never spent money on new bikes or new cars or new houses..I refused to be in debt...owned 6 houses over the years and no mortgage at 56 years old when I retired.....My wife and I have everything we want, a shop full of 20 year old bikes,chickens  sewing machines and what we think is more than enough money..
 Not everyone wants to live my lifestyle but it worked for me and it's an attainable goal if for most any person if they really want it ..

Offline Mr Pootle

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2018, 08:58:33 AM »
Outside of Europe, based on my own life experience.  A good education makes that feasible, or I wouldn't suggest it. My wife and I own four houses (three outside of Europe) in preparation for future retirement income and I started with nothing, and inherited nothing.  You have to do what most others in the UK don't do, and leave.  Or compete for limited land resources at relatively low income for the rest of your life.  There are just too many people for the land area.
There's more to any country than just owning land. I certainly wouldn't want to live anywhere outside of The UK, France or Italy. Apart from anything else, there's the beer to consider. And no-one outside of the UK and Ireland knows how to make a cup of tea.

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2018, 09:47:36 AM »
We have right around 100 microbreweries in the county where I live, mostly within about 15 miles of where I live.  Im guessing youd find one youd like, but alas the area hasnt been a place for young people to get ahead for quite a while.  But there are others.  The world is always changing and change is what young people are best positioned to exploit.

I speak Italian and spend almost every vacation at least partly in one or both of there and France.  Wonderful places, but economically very challenging for somebody starting from scratch, great places for a middle aged motorcyclist to spend money, not good places for a young person to get ahead.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 09:51:30 AM by Tusayan »

Offline zebraranger

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2018, 01:32:12 PM »
Apart from anything else, there's the beer to consider. And no-one outside of the UK and Ireland knows how to make a cup of tea.

You've probably haven't had sweet southern brewed tea yet.

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2018, 09:03:11 AM »
I think categorizing people based on their birth date is the wrong way to answer questions. There will be a time when motorcycles go away, but it won't be today. Instead of criticizing our young people, perhaps we should encourage and assist them to achieve their life's vision. If we have done our part as parents and/or mentors, the world will be in good hands.
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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2018, 09:12:04 AM »
I don't know, every generation has new things to spend money on. I graduated from HS in 73. Besides a car the other high expense was stereo equipment and records. Both were expensive when compared to what you get for the buck now in electronics and music. My first stereo cost me around $250 and was at best a mid-level system which in todays dollars would be over $1,500. New release albums were usually in the $4.99 range which is around $30 today!
I didn't get my first motorcycle until I was 23 (1979) and both my wife and I were working professional jobs.  That was a used lightly used 77 Suzuki GS400 which I paid $800 for which today would be about $2,800.
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John,

To put things in perspective... we own a modern mid-level turntable/amp/speedbox/speaker combo. All in, the setup cost us $3000.00, three years ago. Vinyl LPs? Cost us between $24.99 and $40.00.

Around here,  you don't get a used bike, of any age for less than $2500K unless you're buying a REAL project bike.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 09:12:32 AM by Toecutter »
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Offline Bullitbob

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2018, 10:58:25 AM »
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Offline Darren Williams

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2018, 11:05:53 AM »
Millennials didn't ruin motorcycles, deer ruined motorcycles! At least a couple of mine.   :evil:
The best part of riding a motorcycle is to tilt the horizon and to lift the front coming out of a corner and to drift the back end powering thru loose dirt and to catch a little air topping a hill and... yeah it's all good!

Offline Texas Turnip

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2018, 04:07:24 PM »
In the late 50's us farm boys could save 3-400 bucks and get a Harley, Indian, BSA or Triumph without a special m/c license or buying expensive gear. Now, in some areas you have to be 17 or 18 to get a m/c license and almost prohibitive insurance.  Drive by any high school and there is not one bike in the parking lot. All Junior can buy with his parents signing is a car and the bike never enters the picture.

My first bike when I was 16 in 1959 was a '51 Harley 74. The bike was in my name and so was the insurance. I wont get into regulation and safety issues that have ruined t for young bikers.

Tex

Offline LowRyter

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Re: The millennials ruined motorcycles -- NY Times. Discuss.
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2018, 04:27:17 PM »
anyone got a link to read the article? 

The article I saw was entitled "After Ruining Mayonnaise, Can Millennials Save America?"

And no. I won't post due to TOS (political content)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 04:39:29 PM by LowRyter »
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

 


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