Author Topic: Wood in my engine (Read 25701 times)

pehayes · « **Reply #30 on:** October 30, 2018, 09:59:02 AM »

Quote from: guzzisteve on October 30, 2018, 09:56:47 AM

18 bolts, 14 around the outer edge and 4 on the bottom in between the fining(2 towards front & 2 towards the rear). Drain oil first and get a new gasket.
Good Luck.

You probably won't need the gasket. But if you don't buy one for safety spare, then you will certainly break the existing one. NO CEMENT! Grease the gasket. Also add a hose clamp to the oil filter body.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #31 on:** October 30, 2018, 09:59:13 AM »

Quote from: PandionExpress on October 30, 2018, 07:54:55 AM

What you have circled there is the oil return hole that goes to the sump. It just might have made it to the sump. Pull the sump and look.

Do not run the motor until you get it out of there. You may need to fish it out somehow.

pehayes · « **Reply #32 on:** October 30, 2018, 10:08:36 AM »

Here is a view up INSIDE your crankcase chamber. Stole the picture from the Internet. The oil drain holes for each cylinder are annotated. Remove the sump and you will surely see the chopstick protruding from one of these holes. You might have to snap it in several shorter pieces to get it out.

Don't let this deter you from using a chopstick to find TDC. Please DO NOT use a metal probe for such a task. Don't just lay the chopstick in there and turn the engine. It will jam and snap the wood inside the cylinder as in the pencil failure above. You need to hold the chopstick in one hand so that it moves freely within the cylinder while you gently rotate the engine.

Just be careful which hole you go poking about!

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

holes movies

Rough Edge racing · « **Reply #33 on:** October 30, 2018, 10:12:27 AM »

Well, I did something like that on a car engine but it didn't turn out well because I was unaware of the foreign object............. ........OP, If you take a bright penlight and shine it into the hole can you see the stick? If you can see it and it's smaller than the "tunnel", you may be able to fetch it out with a wire loop in small diameter tubing, glue as mentioned or use a sharpened rod like a wheel spoke or metal knitting needle to poke it and pull it up...Or pull the sump like said above...Good luck

Toecutter · « **Reply #34 on:** October 30, 2018, 10:29:45 AM »

Quote from: pehayes on October 30, 2018, 09:59:02 AM

You probably won't need the gasket. But if you don't buy one for safety spare, then you will certainly break the existing one. NO CEMENT! Grease the gasket. Also add a hose clamp to the oil filter body.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Grease? Or oil? I always thought you oiled one side of the gasket... correct me, please.

pehayes · « **Reply #35 on:** October 30, 2018, 10:38:40 AM »

Quote from: Toecutter on October 30, 2018, 10:29:45 AM

Grease? Or oil? I always thought you oiled one side of the gasket... correct me, please.

YMMV. Grease, oil, butter, aioili, etc. I doubt it matters too much. You're just trying to keep the dry gasket from sticking to either the sump or the crankcase. Factory probably puts them in dry which is why they stick and break upon removal. OK if you're willing to go through the scraping routine every time you pull the sump. If lubricated, the gasket can survive numerous disassembly cycles. Just be sure to have a spare hanging on the shelf. That insures longevity to the one in usage.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

oldbike54 · « **Reply #36 on:** October 30, 2018, 11:16:32 AM »

Yak Fat .

Dusty

ps , I normally use a light smear of anti seize grease on almost any gasket .

Markcarovilli · « **Reply #37 on:** October 30, 2018, 12:15:35 PM »

I thought from the subject line that maybe he got his engine aroused.........

Mark

PandionExpress · « **Reply #38 on:** October 30, 2018, 12:25:16 PM »

I did fish around in the hole with another skewer, and could not feel the lost one. So i don't see fishing it out from the top working. I will try the sump first.

A couple notes on the various comments. As i have read, there are two different ways to go about manipulating the valves to get TDC. Both of which have been mentioned: 1) bike on center stand in 5th gear, using the wheel to turn the engine; 2) bike in what ever position it likes (my interpretation) in neutral, using the alternator to turn the engine. I am assuming one versus the other is an age old debate, and arguably either is acceptable?

Sounds like it is not enough to just use the symbols (D & S) on the crankshaft. The chopstick down the hole is necessary to confirm TDC?

And sounds like i should adjust the left cylinder valves first? I started with the right, so i guess i need to redo this one after i get the left done?

Thanks for all the tips and tricks. Much appreciated.

pehayes · « **Reply #39 on:** October 30, 2018, 12:35:43 PM »

Note the direction of normal rotation. Always approach and stop at TDC from the normal direction of rotation. If you pass TDC inadvertently, don't just try to go backwards to reach TDC. There is slop in the drive system and you can impact accuracy. Either go around 720 and try again in the normal direction, or back up 180 to allow for slop and come at it again in the normal direction. I prefer a GENTLE wrench on the alternator. Don't be anal about the last degree or so.

The D&S are not necessarily spot on accurate, but probably close enough. If someone worked inside before then it is possible to put the flywheel back on in the wrong position.

It does not matter which cylinder you do first. However, note that you can NOT do both cylinders at the same time. You bring one to compression TDC and adjust those valves. Move to the other side, bring that to TDC compression and adjust those valves. Classic error of new users trying to adjust both cylinders without altering the engine rotation. Big noises!

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

gearman · « **Reply #40 on:** October 30, 2018, 12:55:02 PM »

Quote from: John A on October 30, 2018, 09:45:19 AM

If it's in the spark plug hole, use another chopstick with sticky stuff from a rodent glue trap to fish it out or yard the head off. If it went in an oil return hole it will be in the sump so pull the pan.

HELLO!!!!!! It is not in the spark plug hole! op SHOWED where he dropped it. In the return oil gallery.. GEEZE.

Tom H · « **Reply #41 on:** October 30, 2018, 01:03:39 PM »

I wanted to add:

Make sure you drain the oil BEFORE pulling the pan. It was mentioned already, just wanted to make sure you read it.

If you don't know which is the drain plug, look it up or ask first. Also make sure you get all the pan bolts out. The ones around the edge are easy to see, but there are 4 on the bottom of the pan that are easy to miss.

Good luck,
Tom

PandionExpress · « **Reply #42 on:** October 30, 2018, 01:12:55 PM »

Quote from: Tom H on October 30, 2018, 01:03:39 PM

Make sure you drain the oil BEFORE pulling the pan. It was mentioned already, just wanted to make sure you read it.

Haha. That would be classic. Thanks for the call out. I recently changed the oil (without making a mess), so will be able to find the right plug there. Now if only my sump gasket hadn't ripped when took it out of the box, or i would be able to reuse it.

pehayes - thank you, that information lines up great with me not having to redo everything.

rodekyll · « **Reply #43 on:** October 30, 2018, 01:43:46 PM »

You might try probing for the end of the skewer with the eraser end of a pencil. If you feel the end, push the eraser over it and pull it out. If you feel the end but just push it farther down, then it will be in good view through the sump. If you don't feel it, it's already in good view through the sump.

This isn't a huge deal. I've generally got the alternator cover off when I do the valves, to get at the crank nut. I decided to mark TDC for both sides on the alternator, using white witness paint. Now I put nothing down the spark plug holes. I just get the index marks lined up with the valves relaxed and go about my business.

BMCMOTO · « **Reply #44 on:** October 30, 2018, 02:05:42 PM »

Fewer words.

Brian

Guzzi Gal · « **Reply #45 on:** October 30, 2018, 02:12:35 PM »

Quote from: Markcarovilli on October 30, 2018, 12:15:35 PM

I thought from the subject line that maybe he got his engine aroused.........

Mark

I was thinking the same thing the first time I read the subject line.

Markcarovilli · « **Reply #46 on:** October 30, 2018, 02:56:12 PM »

GG - great minds...

Rough Edge racing · « **Reply #47 on:** October 30, 2018, 02:58:37 PM »

I've adjusted the valves on dozens of cars and bike engines and never needed to find tdc.....With valve or cam cover off , rotate engine in normal direction until the exhaust valve starts to open and adjust the intake on the cylinder.... Then rotate again until the intake cycles open and just before it closes, adjust the exhaust...This is the recommended procedure for high performance cams and OHV bikes do have quite a bit of cam.... Does a Guzzi have unusual cam profile that needs TDC for adjustment?

Groover · « **Reply #48 on:** October 30, 2018, 03:14:41 PM »

In regards to: 1) bike on center stand in 5th gear, using the wheel to turn the engine; 2) bike in what ever position it likes (my interpretation) in neutral, using the alternator to turn the engine.

I did #1 the first time I adjusted the valves and it was quite the effort. Next time I did #2 at risk of breaking the bolt (after I had already broken one during alternator & rotor replacement a few months earlier) #2 seems easier and more accurate to get TDC, but I was sweating bullets as I expected the bolt so snap (it didn't) - I'd probably try #1 again next time to be safe.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #49 on:** October 30, 2018, 03:47:53 PM »

#1 is difficult for me. There are springs involved, and I need to keep "bumping" the wheel to get the engine to turn. On that last bump, it'll go past TDC.

yogidozer · « **Reply #50 on:** October 30, 2018, 04:11:02 PM »

Quote from: Chuck in Indiana on October 30, 2018, 03:47:53 PM

#1 is difficult for me. There are springs involved, and I need to keep "bumping" the wheel to get the engine to turn. On that last bump, it'll go past TDC.

Take both plugs out and bump the wheel. If you go a bit past, back bump. Takes about 15-30 seconds. Less time than it takes to remove the alt. Cover.

HDGoose · « **Reply #51 on:** October 30, 2018, 04:25:37 PM »

Quote from: Frenchfrog on October 30, 2018, 08:52:10 AM

If the stick is in the cylinder then I can't fathom how you would get it out by removing the sump but I'm allways open to learning !

The skewer wasn't put in the plu hole. It was put in the oil return side which goes straight to the oil pan.

lucian · « **Reply #52 on:** October 30, 2018, 05:55:24 PM »

Do you have a powerful shop vac? If the chopstick just dropped in there I would pull the oil dipstick , to let air in, and rig a tube taped to a shop vac and try sucking it out of there. My guess is that it's still standing vertically at the bottom of the gallery. You may have to plug up the other galleries to increase the vacuum to the one your going after.

nortryder · « **Reply #53 on:** October 30, 2018, 09:41:50 PM »

Turn the bike upside down and shake?

Old Jock · « **Reply #54 on:** October 31, 2018, 04:48:54 AM »

Quote from: nortryder on October 30, 2018, 09:41:50 PM

Turn the bike upside down and shake?

You jest, but I know somebody who did just that with a Brit bike to retrieve a nut that fell into the crankcase & he did get it back out

yogidozer · « **Reply #55 on:** October 31, 2018, 05:12:12 AM »

Send in the termites!

discount double check

nortryder · « **Reply #56 on:** October 31, 2018, 07:43:38 AM »

Quote from: Old Jock on October 31, 2018, 04:48:54 AM

You jest, but I know somebody who did just that with a Brit bike to retrieve a nut that fell into the crankcase & he did get it back out

I remember doing this more than once to drowned 2stroke bikes of my misspent youth.

Ncdan · « **Reply #57 on:** October 31, 2018, 07:53:19 AM »

I know this is outside the box but a possible.
A Violyn builder and repair person has tools especially designed to place a sound post (!small wooden Dow rod) inside the instrument through a small hole. He will use a special light on a flexible stem and tools with several angles and a sharpened special designed point to secure the Dow. Just a possibility. Good luck.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #58 on:** October 31, 2018, 07:55:54 AM »

Quote from: nortryder on October 31, 2018, 07:43:38 AM

I remember doing this more than once to drowned 2stroke bikes of my misspent youth.

Yeah, me too..

John A · « **Reply #59 on:** October 31, 2018, 09:42:20 AM »

Quote from: gearman on October 30, 2018, 12:55:02 PM

HELLO!!!!!! It is not in the spark plug hole! op SHOWED where he dropped it. In the return oil gallery.. GEEZE.

HELLO!!!! Ever heard of a device that doesn't have good enough resolution on pictures when away from base that does not have the resolution to observe some details? Get out in the world and maybe you can experience such strange things!GEEZE.

News:

Author Topic: Wood in my engine (Read 25701 times)

Rough Edge racing

oldbike54

Rough Edge racing