Author Topic: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear  (Read 1162 times)

Online jas67

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V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« on: December 01, 2018, 12:35:52 PM »



Today's rain is coming late, got out for one last ride on the V7III.     40 degrees, not much wind protection.  Had heated jacket and gloves on 100%.     The alternator is indeed lower output than the V7-I.      Battery voltage was only at 12.4V after riding for about an hour, should be 12.6 to 12.7 for a full charge.

I put a meter on it with the engine running, and heated gear on 100%.   Voltage was 12.0V at idle 12.4 at 3,000 RPM.    13.6V with just the heated gloves, 14.2 with heated gear off.   The running voltage should be 13.6 or higher to be giving the battery a decent charge.

My V7 III has an LED headlight and tail light, which saves a total of about 30W.   Definitely not a winter bike.

Typical heated gear wattage is 70-80W for jacket liner, and 20W for heated gloves.    So, if you're going to run heated gear with a V7III, you definitely need to swap the halogen headlight for LED, and I'd recommend the tail light as well.   Even then, if you need to run full heated gear at 100%, you're not charging the batter, and likely running a power deficit.

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Online jas67

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2018, 12:47:18 PM »
I sure hope they put more alternator capacity on the V85.   If not, it won’t be a very good year round touring platform.
2017 V7III Special, 2013 V7 Racer
1977 Le Mans :grin: :grin:
1974 Eldorado  :grin:
2013 Ducati Monster 796, 2004 749, 1974 750GT, 1966 Monza 250
2007 Vespa GTS250ie
2016 BMW R1200RS, 1980/78 R100S, 1976 R90S ,1973 R75/5
2000 Kawasaki W650
1976 Honda CB400F, 1967 305 Super Hawk, 1968 CL175

Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2018, 12:50:46 PM »
I guess am going to put heated grips on mine and call it a day.  Won't ride it when it is too cold to be comfortable.  We can still get days where we are in the low 60s for an hour or two throughout the winter. 

After reading your post I went out and started the bike and am only getting 12.73 volts with the bike running with nothing attached.  Guess I need to do some diagnosis and determine if I need to go in for a warranty repair. 

BTW:  What LED bulbs did you convert to?  Or did you do one of those Ebay Daymaker LED lights?
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Online Green1000S

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2018, 01:45:03 PM »

What's heated gear???
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Online pyoungbl

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2018, 02:13:44 PM »
It will help to layer up with an outer layer that blocks the wind so you can run the liner at less than 100%.  I'd also forget heated grips since they eat up quite a bit of power and can only heat on one side of the hand.  Even my V7 with the larger alternator idles at a slight electrical deficit but at lest it can carry my full heated liner once the revs are around 3500.

I just checked...Guzzi claims the V85 electrical output is 430 watts.  Good news!
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 02:16:30 PM by pyoungbl »
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2018, 03:02:29 PM »
For me, heated gear is more trouble than it's worth.

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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2018, 04:20:58 PM »
What's heated gear???
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
+1   Heated gear= Felt pack boots, Carharts, hoody inside full face helmet, Olympia gloves w/o lectric.  I gave RatGuzzi shit cause I saw an outlet on his bike.
If it's single digits you better haul ass.
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Offline Kiwi Dave

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2018, 04:49:13 PM »
I don't run with heater gear either, just heated grips.  The problem with heated gear is that you are tethered to the bike.  However, one way around this, and to save your bike battery would be to carry a small rechargable battery in your pocket for the heated vest, etc. 

Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2018, 05:38:14 PM »
+1   Heated gear= Felt pack boots, Carharts, hoody inside full face helmet, Olympia gloves w/o lectric.  I gave RatGuzzi shit cause I saw an outlet on his bike.
If it's single digits you better haul ass.

How do you fit a hoody inside your helmet and not get a headache from the extra pressure?  Do you have a larger winter helmet?

I used to dress like the Michelin man in the winter, but it hindered my movements on the bike and I felt it was dangerous so I bought a heated vest.  Eventually added heated gloves, grips and insoles for all day cold weather riding. 
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Online pyoungbl

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2018, 06:22:44 PM »
How do you fit a hoody inside your helmet and not get a headache from the extra pressure?  Do you have a larger winter helmet?

I used to dress like the Michelin man in the winter, but it hindered my movements on the bike and I felt it was dangerous so I bought a heated vest.  Eventually added heated gloves, grips and insoles for all day cold weather riding.

Exactly!  You can dress like the Michelin man but, in the end, you are bound by the simple fact that heat loss due to wind is much more than heat gain by normal body heat.  If it's really cold you need some kind of auxiliary heat source.  You can minimize the heat loss by using wind blocking gear but the fact remains, you will probably need some kind of heat input.  For most applications that means heated gear.  Modern heated gear fits easily under normal riding gear.  I'm beyond riding in sub zero conditions....did that when I was young....but I'll still prepare to warm up with electrons when it's chilly or wet or windy.  The idea is to live to ride another day, not prove who can ride through the worst weather.
Growing old ain't for sissies.

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Online Rich A

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2018, 07:46:20 PM »
I have heated gear--I like to look down at my hands in heated gloves and think, "Gee, my hands should be freezing, but they're not."

Rich

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2018, 08:00:34 PM »
Been doing it all my riding days in N. IL, course I only wore a bucket in the winter, so I guess it was a winter helmet. Gloves were good to 18* . If all you got is 2 & 3 wheels and no $ for lectrics, you just go. Who the f$c$ cares what you look like.
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2018, 08:14:58 PM »
Been doing it all my riding days in N. IL, course I only wore a bucket in the winter, so I guess it was a winter helmet. Gloves were good to 18* . If all you got is 2 & 3 wheels and no $ for lectrics, you just go. Who the f$c$ cares what you look like.

You don't go all day long like that though do you Steve.  Commute 10 miles to work is a lot different than being in the wind chill for hours on end.
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Online jas67

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2018, 08:33:06 PM »
After reading your post I went out and started the bike and am only getting 12.73 volts with the bike running with nothing attached.  Guess I need to do some diagnosis and determine if I need to go in for a warranty repair. 

IIRC, mine wasn't charging much at idle, even without the heated gear.   You're typically at 3,000 RPM or higher when underway, so, I tested at 3,000 RPM.


BTW:  What LED bulbs did you convert to?  Or did you do one of those Ebay Daymaker LED lights?

ADVmonster H4 "Mesh Monster" in the headlight, and Superbright LED's 1157 in the tail/stop light.

I wanted plug-and-play, which, any of those complete assemblies that replace the reflector often are not, as they're designed to go into a 7" automotive headlight bucket.   I could be wrong on that, if there is one that is plug and play, I'd like to know about it.

I've got the H4 Native in my Eldorado (will also fit the V7), in one of the H4 reflectors sold by MG Cycle.   Despite only using about 2/3 of the reflector (the other third looks dark from the front), it actually has a very good beam to ride with, high and low beam.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 08:33:57 PM by jas67 »
2017 V7III Special, 2013 V7 Racer
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1974 Eldorado  :grin:
2013 Ducati Monster 796, 2004 749, 1974 750GT, 1966 Monza 250
2007 Vespa GTS250ie
2016 BMW R1200RS, 1980/78 R100S, 1976 R90S ,1973 R75/5
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1976 Honda CB400F, 1967 305 Super Hawk, 1968 CL175

Online jas67

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2018, 08:34:14 PM »
What's heated gear???
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Says the guy from Finland.
2017 V7III Special, 2013 V7 Racer
1977 Le Mans :grin: :grin:
1974 Eldorado  :grin:
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Online jas67

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2018, 08:40:44 PM »
How do you fit a hoody inside your helmet and not get a headache from the extra pressure?  Do you have a larger winter helmet?

I used to dress like the Michelin man in the winter, but it hindered my movements on the bike and I felt it was dangerous so I bought a heated vest.  Eventually added heated gloves, grips and insoles for all day cold weather riding.

For me, heated gear is more trouble than it's worth.



My V7 isn't my normal winter bike.   I get much better wind protection on my R1200RS.     This isn't my first winter riding, I've always had at least one bike with good wind protection.   It was just the final ride of the year on the V7 to make sure the stabilizer treated gas was in the complete fuel system.

As for heated gear vs. layers, I do both, but, thin-but-well-insulating layers.   I can't stand being all bulked up, especially the gloves, as the mess up control feel.   That said, I do carry extra layers with me in case the heated stuff craps out, which has happened.   I had one Gerbings controller die a couple years back, and have had two different pair of Gerbings gloves have one glove crap out.

I'm now using First Gear (Warm and Safe) controller and gloves.     My 10+ year old Tourmaster heated jacket liner is still going strong.

Also, heated gear is really nice for those days with lots of temperature variation.   Start the day at 40 degrees with the temp controller turned up, and as the day warms up, just turn the knob down, vs. needing to stop, remove jacket, remove a layer, put jacket back on.
2017 V7III Special, 2013 V7 Racer
1977 Le Mans :grin: :grin:
1974 Eldorado  :grin:
2013 Ducati Monster 796, 2004 749, 1974 750GT, 1966 Monza 250
2007 Vespa GTS250ie
2016 BMW R1200RS, 1980/78 R100S, 1976 R90S ,1973 R75/5
2000 Kawasaki W650
1976 Honda CB400F, 1967 305 Super Hawk, 1968 CL175

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2018, 09:45:14 PM »
I guess I am used to being dressed up. Swung a hammer out in the cold after riding 70mi one way to get to work. So, YEA, glad to have 4 wheels and turn on the heater now. Worked on our farm out in the cold, never had a cab tractor cept the last couple years.
Even carpenter shops inside didn't have much heat, had to work fast to stay warm. I was happy to work in a bike shop were there was heat. 
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Offline Muzz

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2018, 02:30:48 AM »
With the nerves in my fingers in the process of dying off I am finding the Raynauds a bit more of an issue now; it can even hit on a warm summers day. :rolleyes:

To this end I have just ordered off AliExpress a pair of handlebar muffs so that at least my gloves are not in the direct blast of the wind.  As some of our rides start fairly early in the morning, especially at the beginning and the end of our season it can regularly be in the low 40's.

My riding suit is quite warm.  When I was commuting in winter it was often a few degrees below freezing, and I never had the thermal lining fitted in the pants and often not in the jacket either.  I don't think I could be bothered going to the expense of heated gear.
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Offline roadscum

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2018, 12:25:06 PM »
When I lived in the Catskill Mountain area of NY I rode year abound, when ever the roads were clear. I learned all about hypothermia and frost bite. Then I discovered that the nice people a Widder had this heated vest thing, and later heated jacket liners. Problem solved.


In late September of '16 while riding my new V7III in the mountains West Virginia late one chilly evening on my way home home to Florida from Connecticut I learned two things. I learned my new V7III will not support heated grips and a heated jacket liner and I learned there are some great people that live WV.. Good thing the nice customer at the gas station, where I was stranded, lived just a few minutes away and offered to drive home, get his jumper cables, return to the gas station, and help me get under way again.

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2018, 06:04:45 PM »
Been running heated gear for 14 years now.  Completely and totally changes your Winter riding experience from being something you just endure, to something occasionally magical.  I ride down even into the stupid temps, sometimes teens, probably once or twice in the Winter you can find me riding in the single digits.  Biggest challenge I've found with it is staying upright at a stop light where the gear is like a heated blanket and I start to doze  :grin:

And yeah, I was disappointed with the output on my former '15 Stone, V9, and V7III, this even with LED headlight bulb.  Knew they weren't gonna be my Winter bikes so to speak.  Having owned 4 previous 1100 Calis, however, and experiencing the same with them, it wasn't a giant surprise.  As long as I kept them on the tender every night, they would run the heated gear for the 17 mile commute to work and then back home without totally draininig the battery; yet, anything beyond that and I was just satisfied that I would be driving the KTM with the 500 watt alternator. 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 06:09:30 PM by bpreynolds »

Offline Tkelly

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2018, 11:19:52 AM »
77
We have run heated grips and vest on our '13 V7 for 4 years with no problems.

Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2018, 11:38:18 AM »

I put a meter on it with the engine running, and heated gear on 100%.   Voltage was 12.0V at idle 12.4 at 3,000 RPM.    13.6V with just the heated gloves, 14.2 with heated gear off.   The running voltage should be 13.6 or higher to be giving the battery a decent charge.

My V7 III has an LED headlight and tail light, which saves a total of about 30W.   Definitely not a winter bike.

Were you measuring it directly at the battery? I'm wondering if you are factoring in wiring losses or something.

Something doesn't quite add up. You are saving 30 watts on lights, yet it appears a pair of gloves are killing 0.6 or so volts. Gloves are a pretty low wattage thing, maybe less than 10 watts, so it isn't clear why that is.


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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2018, 02:28:36 PM »
Were you measuring it directly at the battery? I'm wondering if you are factoring in wiring losses or something.

Something doesn't quite add up. You are saving 30 watts on lights, yet it appears a pair of gloves are killing 0.6 or so volts. Gloves are a pretty low wattage thing, maybe less than 10 watts, so it isn't clear why that is.

Hey Wayne, I ran heated gloves and a jacket liner on my former 3 small blocks (all of had an LED replacement bulb as well) and they all would drain the battery eventually even when running at constant speed.  My first experience with this was about 65 miles away from the house on a 27F day.  I noticed the gloves and jacket kept getting less and less warm, pretty soon they were nothing and I just had to turn off the heated gear and scoot it back to the house in the cold.  Again, I dunno about the math stated here, but I can absolutely tell you none of my 3 small blocks would run heated gloves and my liner for very long without significant losses to the battery. 

77
We have run heated grips and vest on our '13 V7 for 4 years with no problems.

If my recollection is correct, the earlier V7s DID have a more powerful alternator???

Online jas67

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2018, 06:01:57 PM »
77
We have run heated grips and vest on our '13 V7 for 4 years with no problems.

I did on my '14, and my '13 as well.
The alternator output of the III (and, IIRC, the II, and maybe even the last of the I's that had the "wet" alternator) is lower.
2017 V7III Special, 2013 V7 Racer
1977 Le Mans :grin: :grin:
1974 Eldorado  :grin:
2013 Ducati Monster 796, 2004 749, 1974 750GT, 1966 Monza 250
2007 Vespa GTS250ie
2016 BMW R1200RS, 1980/78 R100S, 1976 R90S ,1973 R75/5
2000 Kawasaki W650
1976 Honda CB400F, 1967 305 Super Hawk, 1968 CL175

Online jas67

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2018, 06:06:02 PM »
Were you measuring it directly at the battery? I'm wondering if you are factoring in wiring losses or something.

Something doesn't quite add up. You are saving 30 watts on lights, yet it appears a pair of gloves are killing 0.6 or so volts. Gloves are a pretty low wattage thing, maybe less than 10 watts, so it isn't clear why that is.

Yes, measuring at the battery, but, one good point is that both my heated gear plug, and the connector I measured the voltage at, which is an SAE plug I put up by the handlebars for a GPS all come from the same distribution box (FUZE Block FZ-1).     I should probably run bigger wire from that to the battery.

Oh, my gloves pull about 10 watts EACH, so, 20 watts for the gloves.

Regardless, with heated gear at 100%, I'm running a power deficit, because the key-off battery voltage, no load after an hour of riding was only 12.4V.



I could re-run the test with the meter on the tender lead, which goes directly to the battery.
2017 V7III Special, 2013 V7 Racer
1977 Le Mans :grin: :grin:
1974 Eldorado  :grin:
2013 Ducati Monster 796, 2004 749, 1974 750GT, 1966 Monza 250
2007 Vespa GTS250ie
2016 BMW R1200RS, 1980/78 R100S, 1976 R90S ,1973 R75/5
2000 Kawasaki W650
1976 Honda CB400F, 1967 305 Super Hawk, 1968 CL175

Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: V7 III (and likely V9 as well) Alternator output and heated gear
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2018, 06:15:57 PM »
Oh, my gloves pull about 10 watts EACH, so, 20 watts for the gloves.

I could re-run the test with the meter on the tender lead, which goes directly to the battery.

The gloves alone, especially since you have saved 30 watts or so in lighting, shouldn't be that big of a drop, I wouldn't think.

I did encounter an EV one time that had a dead diode in the rectifier. It generally worked fine, but it wouldn't tolerate any extra load. Maybe you have something odd like that going on.

I need to finish that design of mine that dropped the power to an electric vest, when the battery voltage was low.
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