Author Topic: Future classics  (Read 5078 times)

Offline poorBob

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2018, 07:59:29 AM »
When Motus went belly up, the dealer who sold me mine tried to convince me "in 40 years it will be like a Vincent Black Shadow!"

I hope he's right but I have my doubts. There will be very few gearheads around in 40 years. I know I won't be.

A pristine 40 year old iPhone will sell for a million bucks. Some femsickle will have it in a glass case and throw parties to show it off to zir's friends.

When I offered to put him on a dirt bike, my nephew said "No, they're too dangerous." He didn't even look up from his video game.

Generational ennui.

Offline Turin

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2018, 10:13:42 AM »
A few of the bikes mentioned are already collectable. What I've noticed a few trends with Japanese sportbikes. Race homologation bikes like the RC30, OW01, ZX7RR already command a premium.  First model years of significant bikes is another factor. A 1999 Hayabusa is more sought after than a 2000. Color also matters. A white, blue and red 1993 CBR 900RR is more sought after than the black, grey and red version of the same year.
Popular Japanese sportbikes in excellent original condition are commanding high prices, many of them were considered disposable and abused. Try finding a nice FZR 400 or 600.
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Offline MedicAndy

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2018, 12:13:22 PM »
I talked to a gentleman from England earlier this year who bought a 1979 Yamaha XT500 from the US and had it shipped to his home in England. I asked him on why in the world he would buy a XT500 from the US and then had to pay shipping and import fees, and he stated that the Yamaha XT500's available in Europe were on average 3X the cost of a US bike, and most European models were actually used, and were therefor high milage bikes and most were in need of a full restoration. I also didn't realize that the XT500 has almost cult-like followers. I paid $2.7k for my 4.2k miles 1979 XT500 about five years ago, and even I had to look long and hard to find one of those thumpers in good condition here in the US.

I think another bike that I bought a little over two years ago, which is my 7k miles 1996 GSXR1100W is destined to become a future highly sought after collectable. Most of the GSXR-1100's have been lost due to the bikes being wrecked or the bikes / engines were used as race / drag bikes. I don't mind buying a bike sight unseen, and I usually act pretty fast when I see a bike come up for sale. I paid $2.2k for this bike, which was a great deal since the bike came with lots of new stuff installed and some nice performance upgrades like a $2k set of Keihin 41mm FCR's.

I believe that now is still a great time to buy a older childhood dream bike, but I also think that "Special" bikes, like the XT500, which was the true first adventure bike before the term "Adventure Bike" was used, or the GSXR's, who where just incredible street legal racing bikes are increasing in value quickly. I also noticed that I get more and more people either contacting me online or asking me in person if any of my bikes were for sale when they see any of my bikes in public. I absolutely love my Moto Guzzi 1100's, but I wish that the Italians would have outsourced the engine / drivetrain of those bikes to the Japanese engineers who developed my GSXR! I'm now looking to buy me a low milage Honda CBR Blackbird, another GSXR1100 (in blue / white), and a 80's GSXR 750. (And yes, I keep both eyes open for any MG 1100 Sport's that come up for sale)  :boozing:

My GSXR, being almost 23 years old by now, is in almost pristine condition. I'm glad that this bike was sitting for 20 years in storage!








This was the eBay auction for the GSXR I bought from a guy out of Baltimore.




This 1996 GSXR auction ended with that bike being sold for $7k, which was a couple of month after I bought my bike.




And this is my 1979 XT500. I did spend about $2k on her cosmetic restoration, which also included $500.00 for a Mikuni racing carb.






« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 09:45:15 AM by MedicAndy »
79 Yamaha XT500F
96 Suzuki GSX-R 1100W
95 MG 1100 Sport x 1
96 MG 1100 Sport x 4
97 MG 1100 Sporti x 5

Offline Turin

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2018, 11:19:13 PM »
Congrats on finding a nice one without a rear fender eliminator and cheesey turn signals. I'm a big fan of 90's hyper sport bikes like the GSXR1100, CBR1000F etc. A big guy like me does not fit on a Ducati F1 or a Bimota DB.
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Offline AH Fan

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2018, 03:27:58 AM »
When Motus went belly up, the dealer who sold me mine tried to convince me "in 40 years it will be like a Vincent Black Shadow!"

I hope he's right but I have my doubts. There will be very few gearheads around in 40 years. I know I won't be.

A pristine 40 year old iPhone will sell for a million bucks. Some femsickle will have it in a glass case and throw parties to show it off to zir's friends.

When I offered to put him on a dirt bike, my nephew said "No, they're too dangerous." He didn't even look up from his video game.

Generational ennui.




Now that's funny...Ö. :grin:
And alarmingly Ö.. possibly true    :sad:

Offline jas67

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2018, 08:35:13 AM »
I talked to a gentleman from England earlier this year who bought a 1979 Yamaha XT500 from the US and had it shipped to his home in England. I asked him on why in the world he would buy a XT500 from the US and then had to pay shipping and import fees, and he stated that the Yamaha XT500's available in Europe were on average 3X the cost of a US bike, and most European models were actually used, and were therefor high milage bikes and most were in need of a full restoration.

Over the last few years, I have sold a few low-miles refreshed/preserved Hondas, and five project Honda 305 Superhawks (ranging from 1965-1967) to Dave Silver Spares, who shipped them all to the UK, where they were promptly listed for sale for 2-3X what they paid me for them.     The price they paid me was fair market value in the US too.
The last batch was the five 305's, and a very nice '73 CB350 Four.    All but the two worse condition 305's sold within a couple months, those last two are still listed on their UK site.   I forget the exact numbers, but, even with those two unsold, they've gotten about 2.5X out of them vs. what I paid.
They, of course, had to pay shipping, but, they load them up by the container load, so, that cost is only a few hundred$$ per bike.

I'm working on three bikes over this winter (another very nice CB350 Four, a CB160 and CL175 sloper).    When they're ready for sale,  I will likely just call the David Silver Spares buyer before I even bother to list on CL or eBay.
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Offline Lannis

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #66 on: December 14, 2018, 10:08:18 AM »
When Motus went belly up, the dealer who sold me mine tried to convince me "in 40 years it will be like a Vincent Black Shadow!"

I hope he's right but I have my doubts. There will be very few gearheads around in 40 years. I know I won't be.

......

When I offered to put him on a dirt bike, my nephew said "No, they're too dangerous." He didn't even look up from his video game.

Generational ennui.

As I've said before, each generation (including ours) tends to think of itself as the last generation that are real men and that last that will do anything that's worth a toot.

I'm sure that folks thought that "We're the last ones that will know how to load a gun properly with powder and shot and flints and wadding" and so there would be no more firearms enthusiasts.   

Or that "This next generation won't know anything about how to feed and curry and doctor and ride a horse, so they'll just stay home and travel is at an end" and no one would take trips any more.

Besides that, being in "a generation" is just a made-up thing, based on our own view of the world from where we sit.   In fact, there's an absolute continuum of people of all ages, most of whom don't "fit" into one category or another.

Come to the Potomac Riders show January 27th in York PA.  There'll be hundreds if not thousands of young people among us old silverbacks, looking over old dirtbike parts boxes and carcasses and oohing and aahing over Bultacos and BSAs .... Nobody lying on sofas with an Xbox there!

Lannis
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Offline MedicAndy

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2018, 10:09:05 AM »
Over the last few years, I have sold a few low-miles refreshed/preserved Hondas, and five project Honda 305 Superhawks (ranging from 1965-1967) to Dave Silver Spares, who shipped them all to the UK, where they were promptly listed for sale for 2-3X what they paid me for them.     The price they paid me was fair market value in the US too.

I was born in Germany and moved to the US back in 1984. My brother (in Germany) keeps on telling me jokingly to buy him a Harley over here in the US and send it to him as a Christmas gift, since like you already stated, the bikes here in the US are so much cheaper to buy then in Europe. I also know that many people in Europe ride their bikes a lot, versus many people like me here in the US, who work a lot and thereby get very little ride time in. This difference results in a lot of older US bikes with very low milage and great condition versus European high milage used bikes. Another problem for instance is the personal income tax in Germany, which is for 2018 is 47.5% (the all time high was at 57% in 1996), and the sales tax is now at 19%. I can see on why prices, especially new items like motorcycle are getting out of reach for many riders over there. I would love to go into a "Motorcycle Export, and then selling them in Europe" business, if I would know of someone that I could trust to start a business with.   

Andy
79 Yamaha XT500F
96 Suzuki GSX-R 1100W
95 MG 1100 Sport x 1
96 MG 1100 Sport x 4
97 MG 1100 Sporti x 5

Offline Lannis

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2018, 10:18:10 AM »
I was born in Germany and moved to the US back in 1984. My brother (in Germany) keeps on telling me jokingly to buy him a Harley over here in the US and send it to him as a Christmas gift, since like you already stated, the bikes here in the US are so much cheaper to buy then in Europe.
Andy

But can you do that?   It doesn't work the other way.   They have all sorts of neat cars and bikes in Europe that were never sold in the USA, and people would love to get their hands on one.   But even if the money's no problem, the EPA and DOT crash requirements are.

You CAN'T import a vehicle less than 25 years old from Europe to the USA and get it legally licensed to drive on US highways.   You can't get Customs approval to even get it into a port, and even if you imported one to Canada and drove it across the border on a woods road somewhere, the VIN number wouldn't scan as a US-approved model for emissions and crash-testing.

Do European countries have the same rules about imports from the USA?

Lannis
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Offline huub

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2018, 02:23:16 PM »
that is a neat trick to keep your local car producers in business.
over here ( netherlands) i can import whatever i want , it just takes time ( and money) to get it approved for the road.

Online blackcat

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #70 on: December 14, 2018, 03:21:04 PM »
"Come to the Potomac Riders show January 27th in York PA.  There'll be hundreds if not thousands of young people among us old silverbacks, looking over old dirtbike parts boxes and carcasses and oohing and aahing over Bultacos and BSAs .... Nobody lying on sofas with an Xbox there!"

Lanes

Yeah, there are lot's of young people who are interested in old bikes and cars and I'm sure that in our youth there were plenty of people who were not that interested in cars and bikes.
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Online Tusayan

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #71 on: December 14, 2018, 03:38:32 PM »
Do European countries have the same Do European countries have the same rules about imports from the USA?

Lannis

Itís probably not as difficult for in terms of regulations (Europe had no uniform vehicle regulations until recently, and there are still national differences between small countries, making flexibility necessary) But it is much more costly - for example you would pay roughly 20% VAT plus an my applicable duty on any import from outside the EU.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 03:43:23 PM by Tusayan »

Offline Lannis

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #72 on: December 14, 2018, 04:03:03 PM »
Itís probably not as difficult for in terms of regulations (Europe had no uniform vehicle regulations until recently, and there are still national differences between small countries, making flexibility necessary) But it is much more costly - for example you would pay roughly 20% VAT plus an my applicable duty on any import from outside the EU.

A lot of people in the US would consider 20% tax plus import duties plus shipping an easily-justifiable cost to get some super-neat Euro-car into the US.  But it's not just difficult, it's impossible, unless you spend the millions necessary to meet USA crash and emissions rules for that model of car, which is the reason they're not imported by the manufacturer in the first place ...

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Offline oilhed

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #73 on: December 15, 2018, 07:21:07 AM »
Wonder why either of these two amazing specimens haven't been mentioned yet?





Don't forget the little Guzzi cruiser, too.  Actually I think they will be collectors, not worth a bank but unique.
Just like that ugly Suzuki Madura, it's kinda cool now.  Anything that wasn't sold in volume gets cool over time.
My opinion is it's gotta be bone stock or at least keeps the parts to make it stock again.  No sawing or drilling!
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Offline weevee

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #74 on: December 15, 2018, 10:17:07 AM »
Try finding a nice FZR 400..

I have a minter - and it's for sale (UK).  Low miles, runs like new, and it still has its tools under the seat!  But yes, the FZR is the hardest 400 to find in this condition.  Most were thrashed around race circuits and thrown away.  Interestingly, despite the current desirability/price-appreciation of the 400 Hondas (CBR/VFR etc), the FZR was actually more successful than any other 400 on the Isle of Man - and everywhere else, for that matter.  In competition, it was always the one to beat.

   

Offline Turin

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #75 on: December 15, 2018, 10:25:51 AM »
You may want to post it on https://raresportbikesforsale.com/. It may catch the eye of a collector there.
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Offline jas67

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #76 on: December 15, 2018, 06:13:59 PM »
Don't forget the little Guzzi cruiser, too.  Actually I think they will be collectors, not worth a bank but unique.
Just like that ugly Suzuki Madura, it's kinda cool now.  Anything that wasn't sold in volume gets cool over time.
My opinion is it's gotta be bone stock or at least keeps the parts to make it stock again.  No sawing or drilling!

Madura?


Kinda cool now?    NOPE!    Sorry, all those little fuel-tank pointed up at a 45 degree angle, tall spindly fork cruisers were ugly, no... make that UGLY!     I'm not a cruiser guy, but, long and low is the look for a cruiser.   Harley makes a proper looking cruiser.   I think the current Softail Deluxe has the right proportions.


The bottom of the fuel tank should be horizontal or close to it, and the top of the tank can't be 45 degrees, the top slope should be lower, like the Harley.  They beefy looking fork covers, have a long low look (as compared to the Madura).    Even the metric cruisers now follow this same aethstetic:

 
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Offline oilhed

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #77 on: December 15, 2018, 09:53:41 PM »
Madura?

Kinda cool now?    NOPE!    Sorry, all those little fuel-tank pointed up at a 45 degree angle, tall spindly fork cruisers were ugly, no... make that UGLY!   

I don't know, maybe it's just me but I liked them then and think they're kinda cool now.  I even bought a brand new Suzuki GS450L for $1,400 in 1985!
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Offline jas67

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #78 on: December 16, 2018, 08:10:05 AM »
I don't know, maybe it's just me but I liked them then and think they're kinda cool now.  I even bought a brand new Suzuki GS450L for $1,400 in 1985!

 :boozing:

I get it.  My statements above are absolutely, MY tastes.   But, hey, that's why there are lots of different styles of bikes (and most everything else for that matter).    If they were all the same, the world would be a boring place.
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Online sdcr

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #79 on: December 16, 2018, 10:37:43 AM »
Absolutely agree. Reminds me of 1979, when I bought my first new bike, a 78 yamaha SR 500 from Cycle Villa in hatfield pa. The owner complained endlessly that nobody wanted to buy these SR's. He had three or 4 leftovers, and didn't know where to put the 1979 models. Fortunately for me, I liked them, and wanted one. They gave me an exceptional deal.

:boozing:

I get it.  My statements above are absolutely, MY tastes.   But, hey, that's why there are lots of different styles of bikes (and most everything else for that matter).    If they were all the same, the world would utile agreebe a boring place.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 05:24:47 AM by sdcr »
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Offline Turin

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2018, 08:25:43 PM »
I don't think the Madura stands a chance as a collectable . It was completely overshadowed by the other 3 Japanese power cruisers from that era. ( V65 Magna, ZL1000 Eliminator, and of course the V-Max )
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Offline poorBob

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #81 on: December 18, 2018, 07:36:53 AM »
As I've said before, each generation (including ours) tends to think of itself as the last generation that are real men and that last that will do anything that's worth a toot.

Come to the Potomac Riders show January 27th in York PA.  There'll be hundreds if not thousands of young people among us old silverbacks, looking over old dirtbike parts boxes and carcasses and oohing and aahing over Bultacos and BSAs .... Nobody lying on sofas with an Xbox there!

Lannis

Thanks for the invite, Lannis. I probably can't make it but it would do me good to get out of the office environment in which I'm presently toiling. Being surrounded by 30 year old gender-neutrals who can type 200 wpm with their thumbs and call their moms when they get a flat tire in their electric car is affecting my attitude. I'm starting to sound bitter. Going to a jumble such as the one you mentioned would do me a lot of good..if I could only get some time off work. 

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #82 on: December 18, 2018, 10:36:32 AM »
Here's yer post-2000 collectible.



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Re: Future classics
« Reply #83 on: December 18, 2018, 10:50:03 AM »
Thanks for the invite, Lannis. I probably can't make it but it would do me good to get out of the office environment in which I'm presently toiling. Being surrounded by 30 year old gender-neutrals who can type 200 wpm with their thumbs and call their moms when they get a flat tire in their electric car is affecting my attitude.

Not for nothing, but why would we assume those demographics would be a hot-bed of gearheads?

Though you might find one there, wouldn't you more likely find more in an engineering environment or technical trades?

I know there are exceptions, and you may find a motorcycle enthusiast in any profession, but I would certainly expect fewer in some than others, a lot fewer in some.
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Offline poorBob

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #84 on: December 18, 2018, 01:18:27 PM »
Not for nothing, but why would we assume those demographics would be a hot-bed of gearheads?

Though you might find one there, wouldn't you more likely find more in an engineering environment or technical trades?

I know there are exceptions, and you may find a motorcycle enthusiast in any profession, but I would certainly expect fewer in some than others, a lot fewer in some.

Software development is a technical trade and is the environment in which I spend an inordinate amount of time. My current title is automation engineer. So, here's me, the technical engineer, surrounded by the demographic I described. I would expect to find more riders in a mechanical engineering sort of workplace. I never assumed IT would be a hotbed of gearheads but I will never be comfortable in an environment where most of the people can't wait for driverless cars to become predominant so they can watch videos all the way to work. Those people will definitely not be the market for future classic motorcycles. That's all I'm saying.

Offline TimmyTheHog

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #85 on: December 18, 2018, 07:51:38 PM »
who knows?

Maybe 10 years from now where the EV rules are kicking in hard, ALL the ICM bikes will be a valuable commodity?  :popcorn: :boozing:
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Re: Future classics
« Reply #86 on: December 18, 2018, 07:57:51 PM »
Software development is a technical trade and is the environment in which I spend an inordinate amount of time. My current title is automation engineer. So, here's me, the technical engineer, surrounded by the demographic I described. I would expect to find more riders in a mechanical engineering sort of workplace. I never assumed IT would be a hotbed of gearheads but I will never be comfortable in an environment where most of the people can't wait for driverless cars to become predominant so they can watch videos all the way to work. Those people will definitely not be the market for future classic motorcycles. That's all I'm saying.

No, by and large most software development types I've known from college through today are mostly a different demographic by far, especially these days. I mean these days they are the poster children for millennials and their econtent world. That's so far removed from the gear head demo it's ridiculous.

Sure Jay is an EE, but I can't think of a single other EE or a software guy from our fraternity who was a gear head even back then.
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Offline Bulldog9

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #87 on: December 18, 2018, 08:01:34 PM »
Well, I've always hoped my Yamaha XS series would become classics, and had a stash of XS1100's but sold all but one 1100 (my first real street bike in 84) and a 750 when they just never appreciated..... Same with several other vehicles, even limited models like the 912E. I LOVE all of them, but collectors they are not.

I'd love for the 4V Griso (IMO the quintessential Griso and almost perfect) and maybe the Stornello, but the Norge is and will be a 'dime a dozen' bike...... Oh well, should have bought a Lemans in 84....... I'd still have it, it would still be pristine like my XS11, and would be worth serious $$$.











2007 GRiSO 1100
2016 Stornello #742
2017 MGX #265
1979 Yamaha XS1100SF "Visitation"
1978 XS750 Triple

Offline TimmyTheHog

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #88 on: December 18, 2018, 08:05:51 PM »
Software development is a technical trade and is the environment in which I spend an inordinate amount of time. My current title is automation engineer. So, here's me, the technical engineer, surrounded by the demographic I described. I would expect to find more riders in a mechanical engineering sort of workplace. I never assumed IT would be a hotbed of gearheads but I will never be comfortable in an environment where most of the people can't wait for driverless cars to become predominant so they can watch videos all the way to work. Those people will definitely not be the market for future classic motorcycles. That's all I'm saying.

I am a mechanical Engineer...and MOST of my old classmates won't even considered a motorcycle due to "safety  & family reasons"...and more than half of them don't even own a car!...

I know more lawyers & businessmen that are gear-heads than engineers...funny how that works eh.

So what I am trying to say is...if you are a gear-head, doesn't matter what you do, you will always be one.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 08:06:38 PM by TimmyTheHog »
Life isn't WHAT IS at the end.
It is HOW and WHAT you are doing to get there.

03 Honda Shadow Spirit - The Purple Beast (SOLD)
15 Guzz V7 Stone - The Red Chick (SOLD)
18 BMW R1200GS Rallye - The Blue Streak

Offline Furbo

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Re: Future classics
« Reply #89 on: December 18, 2018, 08:37:32 PM »
I'll put in my $ with two Euro Trash sleds that are both in line with the contributions of the Honda 750 Four and the Z9 in that they were a leap forward and had a story:

1994 BMW R1100 RS. The first oil-head that brought BMW bikes out of the 1950's engineering age and kicked off the Sport Touring and later ADV stuff with the excellent brakes, terrific reliability, and far less maintenance than their Air Cooled predecessors. 

1994-6 MG Sport 1100. Shares development history and Dr. John's DNA with the Daytona but was far more an everymans machine. They were designed with the tinkerer in mind and begged to be mod'd. Once properly jetted and with the obligatory free flow exhaust they were the last of the he man Euro Trash Sportsters.  The follow on CARC bikes were better, but they are a middle aged quarter horse compared to a young mustang ride wise. The Sport 1100's should have been given the LeMans moniker.   
Carlisle, PA
'96 Sport 1100
'72 N. Falcone
'72 Eldo

Eccl 9:9,10

 


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