Griso 8V 15K Miles

[Griso8V]

Today my Griso 8V turned 15k miles.  It is a 2010; not that many miles but just wish to report that these have been 15,000 flawless and trouble fee miles.  I have done everything wrong to this bike according to many on the various forums, these wrongs include:
1.  Following the manufacturers oil changing interval guidelines
2.  Using recommended weight oil, any brand.
3.  No oil analysis, ever.
4.  Using it for short trips.
5.  Using it for short trips in cold weather.
6.  Using the motor in any rev range. 
7.  Maintainance performed by the dealer. 
8.  Many more abuses that I can't remember.
So, anyone who is hand wringing about the reliability of the 8 valve motor:  Sleep easy!

[wyno]

I bought my Griso new from Pete Roper in 2013. It had its 1500km service (done by Pete) and then its 10,000km (done by Motociclio in Sydney) and then I moved back to Geelong and was too poor to have the bike serviced regularly. The next service and oil change it got was at 60,000km. I was still poor and it didn't get a service until I was able to access my superannuation at 104,000km. I took it to Pete and he treated it to new rings and valves and a lot of other stuff, but he was surprised how good the motor was considering the way it had been "looked after". It has now done 145,000km and is still pulling like a train and still great fun to ride.

[pete roper]

Today my Griso 8V turned 15k miles.  It is a 2010; not that many miles but just wish to report that these have been 15,000 flawless and trouble fee miles.  I have done everything wrong to this bike according to many on the various forums, these wrongs include:
1.  Following the manufacturers oil changing interval guidelines
2.  Using recommended weight oil, any brand.
3.  No oil analysis, ever.
4.  Using it for short trips.
5.  Using it for short trips in cold weather.
6.  Using the motor in any rev range. 
7.  Maintainance performed by the dealer. 
8.  Many more abuses that I can't remember.
So, anyone who is hand wringing about the reliability of the 8 valve motor:  Sleep easy!

Unfortunately despite the fact that it's not showing any outward signs it is failing. If you pull a cambox and examine the tappets it will be very unlikely to not be showing damage by 15,000 miles. All flat tappet 8V's will fail. To believe otherwise flies in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Sorry.

[lucian]

2010?  Rollerize  or  suffer the sad consequences.  Mine was failing at 3,000 miles.

[Griso8V]

Unfortunately despite the fact that it's not showing any outward signs it is failing. If you pull a cambox and examine the tappets it will be very unlikely to not be showing damage by 15,000 miles. All flat tappet 8V's will fail. To believe otherwise flies in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Sorry.

Yes, yes, a ticking time bomb! But then again, I like to live dangerously.  I guess if I live long enough I will fail too...
In the mean time I am enjoying the ride!
T

[pete roper]

That's fine. It's just a terrible waste of a wonderful bike. When it does start rattling please don't just close the valve lash up and flick pass it to someone else.

Pete

[Griso8V]

That's fine. It's just a terrible waste of a wonderful bike. When it does start rattling please don't just close the valve lash up and flick pass it to someone else.

Pete

Yeah, OK Pete, I don't think I would do that, I am not that kind of a guy. 
If it has a problem, I will fix it.  Until then, I will ride it.  Not sure what the big deal is... thanks for the advise
T

[pete roper]

The only 'Big deal' as far as I'm concerned is the fact that nobody wants to hear that they have bought a turd. Therefore people generally will seek out what they want to hear and in the case of flat tappet 8V's what they want to hear is that the problem doesn't exist or at least is greatly overblown.

I had this happen a year or so ago, I think on the Ghetto? Some pommy bloke showed up with an 8V 1200 Sport and I suggested that he get the top end inspected because it was going to fail. Anyway he went to his dealer who told him the issue was very rare and he didn't need to bother and he then told me I was talking out of my arse and buggered off with lots of references to my ancestry etc. etc.

Once again the situation was that his bike wasn't showing any outward signs and therefore, basing his argument on his extensive experience of one bike, his, and without actually bothering to do the small amount of work necessary to confirm whether there was damage or not he chose to believe what he wanted to hear, the sort of equivalent of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and saying "LA-LA-LA" very loudly.

The thing is as soon as I started seeing failures in my shop I started inspecting every bike that came through the door. Ones I'd serviced from new, one's from other shops, ones bought to me because their shops assured them there was 'No Problem' but they were skeptical. I haven't seen one solitary engine with over 20,000km that didn't show wear. That is a 100% failure rate. Often they've had serious damage well before that 20,000km point!

The thing is until all the DLC has been abraded off the tappet there are few outward signs. Valve clearances change little if at all, there are no warning noises. The one thing that is usually noticeable is the the engine oil tends to get blacker a lot quicker and may smell appreciably more *Burnt* as the DLC degrades but all the time the particulate matter is being fed through the engine and may be causing further, terminal, damage. I've had about a 3-4% post rollerisation failure rate of big ends and main bearings and that seems to be directly related to the higher the mileage covered prior to rollerisation. Annoyingly it isn't consistent though! My Stelvio which ai rollerised at 108,000 km had had TWO sets of flats through it and it never went tits! My first Griso motor was rollerised at about 80,000 km and the bottom end went tits about 6.5k later?? Go figure!

My experience and research is based not just on one or two or even a handful of 8V's. It's based on quite literally hundreds! It seems like every 8V orphan on the east coast of Oz eventually wanders into my workshop and I've completed well over 100 rollerisations, I stopped counting at about a hundred. I think I'm probably closing in on 140-150 by now! Do I get some sort of perverse pleasure from telling people that their bikes are in the process of shitting themselves? Of course not! But I do enjoy trying to save as many of them as possible as I think the CARC series bikes are magnificent and worthy of saving!

When I was still an 'Official' service agent and was slapping in warranty claim after warranty claim on failed engines I was asked by the warranty bloke at the importer why I did more "By an order of magnitude" than any other shop in Oz. The answer is simple. Because I LOOK for the damage because I know it's happening. Nowadays I'm freelance again but I'm still doing rollerisations at the rate of a couple a month. Most of these bikes are at least seven years old now and tend not to have full service histories so Piaggio tells them to go whistle when they go Pop. Owners have two choices. Pay to have it done or part the bike out. Most opt to rollerise. It isn't that expensive and I bring bits in from Europe at a substantial saving over buying locally.

So that is the reason why I will always offer an alternative explanation when people, anyone, argues that their bike is fine and others don't have to worry. I know better based on hard learned experience. I defended the flat tappet motor for far too long because I too wasn't looking in the right place. As soon as I did it became clear that I was wrong. My defence of the design sits very uneasily with me and I don't want other people making the same mistake I did.

Pete

[Huzo]

I bought my Griso new from Pete Roper in 2013. It had its 1500km service (done by Pete) and then its 10,000km (done by Motociclio in Sydney) and then I moved back to Geelong and was too poor to have the bike serviced regularly. The next service and oil change it got was at 60,000km. I was still poor and it didn't get a service until I was able to access my superannuation at 104,000km. I took it to Pete and he treated it to new rings and valves and a lot of other stuff, but he was surprised how good the motor was considering the way it had been "looked after". It has now done 145,000km and is still pulling like a train and still great fun to ride.

Typically up front of you Mick.
Actually it pulls like two trains joined together, I do remember the sound as you strolled past the line of cars but it got quiet again as you disappeared.
I don't think my Norge has quite forgiven me for "attempting" to follow..(but she will eventually I hope..)

[Huzo]

Yes, yes, a ticking time bomb! But then again, I like to live dangerously.  I guess if I live long enough I will fail too...
In the mean time I am enjoying the ride!
T

Hi Griso 8V.
If you intend to save yourself the trouble of taking your bike to the local crusher to destroy it and ride it to death instead, that is your perogative and yours alone, but by suggesting that you are "living dangerously" you are implying that there is some chance, however small, that you may dodge a bullet that is coming at you at extreme speed and will avoid the consequences that have befallen (or will befall), every other 8V owner that likes the taste of sand.
Will you let us know how your bike is at each 10,000 k interval ?
I remember the old "blow up nights" at Mt Panorama every Easter in the good old days. Watching a CB 350 Honda weld itself together at night with glowing headers @ peak revs with the oil drained out, was always a huge chortle..
Imagine the unbridalled mirth associated with the wanton destruction of a nice Griso donk when the easy solution was at hand..
Utterly priceless..!
BTW..
I reckon you might be taking the piss..
If so, you had me going for at least a minute...

[Huzo]

Yeah, OK Pete, I don't think I would do that, I am not that kind of a guy. 
If it has a problem, I will fix it.  Until then, I will ride it.  Not sure what the big deal is... thanks for the advise
T

BTW..
That'd be "advice"..
A "vise" is what you'll feel like sticking your head in, when you lunch your lovely Griso..

[molly]

I hope the OP is having a wind up with us because to willfully wreck a motor is a anathema to most here I would suggest.

[Huzo]

I hope the OP is having a wind up with us because to willfully wreck a motor is a anathema to most here I would suggest.

One would dare hope so Molly.

[Moto]

... that is your perogative and yours alone...

That should be 'prerogative,' not 'perogative,' Huzo.

Unless you're claiming one to hold others, but not yourself, to correct usage, as in your advice about 'advise,' above.

Moto

[pyoungbl]

Yes, yes, a ticking time bomb! But then again, I like to live dangerously.  I guess if I live long enough I will fail too...
In the mean time I am enjoying the ride!
T

When you decide to look at those tappets you'll find something like this:

  My Stelvio had about your mileage and had been maintained by the book...my dealer told me that all was OK (I do not think he even looked at the tappets).  At least the damage will be done slowly at first and you will probably hear the thrashing sounds before it locks up.  Nevertheless, by then the motive lump will be junk as a result of all that swarf swimming through the oil system. 

Peter Y.

[Huzo]

That should be 'prerogative,' not 'perogative,' Huzo.

Unless you're claiming one to hold others, but not yourself, to correct usage, as in your advice about 'advise,' above.

Moto

Damn right... 

[Huzo]

That should be 'prerogative,' not 'perogative,' Huzo.

Unless you're claiming one to hold others,

Moto

I'm not entirely sure about that bit either, but you're clearly correct about my spelling error.
Did you mean..
"Unless you're one to claim the right to hold others"...etc
Also maybe we should discuss the use of single and/or double quotation marks, I'm a bit hazy on that as well.

[Litre1000]

 I feel it is incumbent upon us, as a group, to perform an intervention here. There is no good reason for another eight valve engine to meet its untimely demise. We need to go to the OP‘s house and perform this task, with cameras running, for the all the world to see. Let the tools fly...!

[Moto]

Did you mean..
"Unless you're one to claim the right to hold others"...etc

Sure. That's what prerogative means, especially a right not held by everyone. Look it up. This was intended as a play on the word, like your reference to the meaning of "vise."

Also maybe we should discuss the use of single and/or double quotation marks, I'm a bit hazy on that as well.

The single quotes before double is British usage, but I was doing it to try to avoid having my quotes displayed as little black triangles. A better bet is to turn off smart quotes for my system.

All in fun, mate,

Moto

[guzzisteve]

Pay a little now or junk it later, These were from a 10K mi 8V, I changed them every 10K mi then rollers the 3rd time.
Keep your ears open, it will make a rhythmic tapping noise.
Trade it in w/you hear it for a Black or Red Devil, cause it's not covered under warranty anymore. Then your dealer can fix it on their dime if they are still around.

[Huzo]

Sure. That's what prerogative means, especially a right not held by everyone. Look it up. This was intended as a play on the word, like your reference to the meaning of "vise."

The single quotes before double is British usage, but I was doing it to try to avoid having my quotes displayed as little black triangles. A better bet is to turn off smart quotes for my system.

All in fun, mate,

Moto

Yes.
Thanks for that, I knew some, but not all of it..

[jbell]

 he chose to believe what he wanted to hear, the sort of equivalent of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and saying "LA-LA-LA" very loudly.

Pete

Pete, are saying the above does NOT make problems disappear?  How about, "if it only made that grunching noise once, it didn't really happen?  Uh, oh...........I might be in trouble here..........LA-LA-LA

[Huzo]

Pete, are saying the above does NOT make problems disappear?  How about, "if it only made that grunching noise once, it didn't really happen?  Uh, oh...........I might be in trouble here..........LA-LA-LA

[pete roper]

Pay a little now or junk it later, These were from a 10K mi 8V, I changed them every 10K mi then rollers the 3rd time.
Keep your ears open, it will make a rhythmic tapping noise.
Trade it in w/you hear it for a Black or Red Devil, cause it's not covered under warranty anymore. Then your dealer can fix it on their dime if they are still around.

Is this so? I was talking to a mate who is still a dealer here a few weeks ago and he said that while it was well nigh impossible to get any information or help about anything from the new importer he hadn't been specifically told that the factory was abandoning all support for flat tappet models. It wouldn't surprise me as unfortunately nothing about Piaggio management surprises me any more but you'd think that on something so fundamental they would put something up on the Servicemotoguzzi site at least?

Certainly there are still lots of bikes getting rollerised. The supplier I use in Europe lists the available numbers of parts on their website and they're churning through conversion kits at a fair old rate so there must be a lot of folks out there doing it on their own dime! I can't imagine if one of the major suppliers is doing loads of kits the other ones won't be.

Pete

[guzzisteve]

That is a rumor that I got talking to a guy that was at a dealer. Unconfirmed right now, my call has been in, haven't heard back yet.
Where are all the Tech's from dealers at? No one on here in USA?

[molly]

Isn't there a 10 year limit on factory supported spare parts?

[pete roper]

Not sure, but I believe there may be some such rule.

Pete

[Kristian]

Yeah, OK Pete, I don't think I would do that, I am not that kind of a guy. 
If it has a problem, I will fix it.  Until then, I will ride it.  Not sure what the big deal is... thanks for the advise
T

Your bike and your wallet are *definitely* circling the drain. Once you discover the engine damage by noise, it is not far off from hearing the *click* from stepping on a landmine.

You visited several forums and posted here with some sort of agenda, and have now received 100% pure gold advice from one of this planet's most gifted Moto Guzzi mechanics, who, apart from that little noodle, also shares his knowledge freely despite likely not having any time.

[Bulldog9]

  I get where Griso 8V is coming from, there are all kinds of wacko internet forum issues. Right now on the Tundra Forum, people are yacking about 'cam tower leaking'...........

When I first entered the MG world, I had the same attitude towards flat tappets.... i.e.  "good maintenance, care, riding, and oil changes will prevent this possible issue"  Having had the benifit of hanging out with and talking with Street & Steak (Ghetto dwellers) and Jason at MI as well as several conversations with Dave, and reading in the forums, I realized it was a 'when' not 'if' proposition, and shifted my 8V search to a factory rollerized bike, as plan to keep the bike until my own chassis and lifters take a powder.....

Griso 8V, there's no telling where your motor is in its self destruction, and you may like to live dangerously, but be prepared, you may have already spooged your motor, and need not only the roller kit, but a tear down and cleaning of the sump and journals. You will have to do it, and I am with Pete, I hope you dont change the oil, tighten down the adjusters to hide the sound and sell to an unsuspecting buyer smitten with the Griso. Not sure how many unrollerized early 8V's are out there but 3 years ago, there were tons of them.

There's an old verse in the Bible that applies here I think.....  If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked person shall die for his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. But if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, or from his wicked way, he shall die for his iniquity, but you will have delivered your soul.

I do have to say, my 8V, and those I've heard are so loud, I cant imagine what a sick flat tappet motor sounds like........

[pete roper]

S'pose it might be time to re-post the vid of me removing the left hand cambox on a Griso just to show how easy it is? It's fifteen minutes work FFS? How simple does it have to be? At least they you know......