Author Topic: Midwinter pants-wetter!  (Read 903 times)

Online pete roper

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 4624
Midwinter pants-wetter!
« on: January 16, 2019, 06:49:11 PM »
Although it's midsummer here.

Now you may remember a few months ago, probably a year or more actually, I had a 1200 Sport 8V in that had a faulty oil pump gear that was full of voids and which had stripped its teeth off? Luckily I caught that and no damage was done but while we had the front off it replacing the gear with the earlier steel version we found this!



Now why the inside of the timing chest should be painted at all is a question you'll have to ask whichever Piaggio wonk thought it was a good idea but I thought that it's peeling and flaking like that was most likely a preparation issue rather than a paint issue entirely. Anyway we dropped the sump and cleaned all the strainers on the pick ups and got the inside of the timing chest blasted before we reassembled it so it was all good. After all it's not something I'd seen before or since........

Until now! :sad:

A few months ago I rollerised another Sport belonging to a bloke who lives out west, Orange I think from memory. As part of the process I would of dropped the sump for a decent clean out and there was certainly nothing that looked like loose sheets of paint drifting around and the strainers were clean. Just before Christmas though I got the call. It had blown up spectacularly while he was giving it a bit of a hurry-up. Dropping the sump revealed lots of big end frag but he then left it until Christmas/New Year was over to explore further.

Yesterday he sent me some pics. Have a look at 'em. You can see the culprit as clear as the nose on your face.....





This one really tells a tale.....



Most of this crap is bits of big-end shell but you can also see the sheets of paint.



Thing is BOTH of these Sports are red, pre ABS, machines from memory and I'll put my one remaining swinger on them being from the same batch run of bikes. Whether the oil starvation is purely down to the strainer on the pick up for the lubrication circuit being blocked by paint or whether I'll find that the oil pump gear is faulty as well I won't know until we open up the timing chest.

It is most vexing.

Pete

Online lucian

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2289
  • Location: Maine, Ayuh
Re: Midwinter pants-wetter!
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2019, 07:19:17 PM »
looks like a casting release agent that should have been removed prior to assembly.  WTF

Online pete roper

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 4624
Re: Midwinter pants-wetter!
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2019, 09:25:28 PM »
Maybe, but from memory all of them have this substance on them but it doesn't peel off! I'll have to dig out a timing chest next time I'm over at Michaels place.

Pete

Offline kfz

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: UK
Re: Midwinter pants-wetter!
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2019, 02:58:06 AM »
Not much you can say about this.  Assume that Guzzi are all over this and a new bike is on the way to this guy   :angry: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

How can this happen,  did they paint the wrong side?  Is it just the timing cover.  Beyond belief.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 03:00:01 AM by kfz »

Offline tris

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2108
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Midwinter pants-wetter!
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2019, 06:26:29 AM »




Is the other side black too?

I just wonder if some bright bugger decided it was easier/cheaper to paint everything before machining the mating face rather than masking off the machined surface befroe painting  :undecided:
2005 Breva 1100 (non ABS) "Bruno"
with molested Sacred Screw - NOT BY ME!!!
1995 Cali 1100 - carby   "Dino" -now SOLD

Offline antmanbee

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 676
  • Location: N E Florida
Re: Midwinter pants-wetter!
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2019, 06:50:21 AM »
Pete,

When you come across engines that have destructed do you toss the oil coolers or just flush and clean them before installing a repaired engine?
I have a V11 sport where the debris in the pan was just like the posted picture and I attempted to clean the cooler and no matter how many times, more debris kept coming out. I got a replacement cooler.
Does any of that debris ever make it into the crankcase breather system?

Online John A

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2871
  • No way to slow down...
  • Location: Hager city ,western WI
Re: Midwinter pants-wetter!
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2019, 10:13:46 AM »
Thanks , Pete. Another knowledge path for the long winter, I don't have a dog in this kennel, at least right now but you never know.....
John
MGNOC L-471

If you know something I really don't know, it will challenge something I presume

Online Two Checks

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 5572
Re: Midwinter pants-wetter!
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2019, 10:17:59 AM »
When I first saw it I thought that engine ran pretty hot and the oil coked up and stuck to the innards (southern US technical term).
1990 Cal III f/f  "Il Duce' III"
1987 1000 SPII "Il Duce' II"

Online Huzo

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6655
  • Location: Creswick Australia
Re: Midwinter pants-wetter!
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2019, 01:00:00 PM »
Pete,

When you come across engines that have destructed do you toss the oil coolers or just flush and clean them before installing a repaired engine?
I have a V11 sport where the debris in the pan was just like the posted picture and I attempted to clean the cooler and no matter how many times, more debris kept coming out. I got a replacement cooler.
Does any of that debris ever make it into the crankcase breather system?
Could you just hook it up to a hose and walk away and leave it running ?
Then leave it out in the hot sun for long enough.

Offline jacksonracingcomau

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1961
Re: Midwinter pants-wetter!
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2019, 05:26:04 PM »
lario heads are painted inside too, decarb bath got it off but had me wondering why there, insurance against porosity?

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 26370
Re: Midwinter pants-wetter!
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2019, 07:24:53 PM »
Back in the day, I built some high performance Merican V8s. Prepped and painted the block, etc. with Glyptal (sp?) It was supposed to help get oil back to the pan quickly for cooling. <shrug> Maybe that was what they were thinking with the Lario? The other small blocks had tits cast into the rocker covers so oil would condense and drip on the valve train. Dunno.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline Kristian

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 211
Re: Midwinter pants-wetter!
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2019, 07:28:04 PM »
Back in the day, I built some high performance Merican V8s. Prepped and painted the block, etc. with Glyptal (sp?) It was supposed to help get oil back to the pan quickly for cooling. <shrug> Maybe that was what they were thinking with the Lario? The other small blocks had tits cast into the rocker covers so oil would condense and drip on the valve train. Dunno.

My Sport 1100's head had a porosity, we painted them nice and red with Glyptal; the machine shop uses the stuff all the time on Italian engines, especially old Ferraris.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 11:11:30 AM by Kristian »

Offline Roebling3

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 980
  • Location: MA
Re: Midwinter pants-wetter!
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2019, 08:17:13 PM »
Hadn't thought of using Glyptal to seal porosity. Excellent. Used it for many years on screw clamped electrical connections. It is heavy, though.  R3~ 

Online pete roper

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 4624
Re: Midwinter pants-wetter!
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2019, 08:28:14 PM »
Pete,

When you come across engines that have destructed do you toss the oil coolers or just flush and clean them before installing a repaired engine?
I have a V11 sport where the debris in the pan was just like the posted picture and I attempted to clean the cooler and no matter how many times, more debris kept coming out. I got a replacement cooler.
Does any of that debris ever make it into the crankcase breather system?

The situation with the 8V's is a bit different as the cooler only delivers to the cooling circuit whereas the V11's it is integral to the lubrication circuit. Obviously the dross is going to go through the oil pump or pumps in both systems but on the 8V I think there would be less of a problem with shite getting into the bottom end bearings as the lubrication oil just goes pump, filter, bearings.

To answer the question as best I can the way I do it is to back flush the cooler in the parts washer wth clean kero in it, then blow it out and flush it for a considerable time with water at as high a pressure as I can reasonably use before blowing it our again. I just repeat this until I see no more detritus. Is this ideal? No, far from it but it's cheaper than a new cooler and I haven't had any problems yet. (Touch wood.)

With your V11 install a stoppage sheet or it'll torch its big ends again.

Pete

 

20 Ounce Stainless Steel Double Insulated Tumbler with donation credit
Buy a quality tumbler and support the forum at the same time!
Better than a YETI! BPA and Lead free.
Advertise Here