Author Topic: V7iii - things that need attention from the start  (Read 3681 times)

Offline Muzz

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2019, 03:12:32 PM »

Second, if you or the service guy are going to be at the driveshaft, I would lube them.  Personally, I see no reason why it would be better to not lubricate a shaft that is exposed to wear from hammering, rotation, and sliding forces, and also from corrosion and fretting due to moisture.  I do not see why a BMW shaft should be lubricated but a Guzzi shaft should not be.  Unlike an exposed shaft on a tractor that is admittedly exposed to dust and hay, the shaft on a Guzzi is protected and the grease cannot be contaminated by outside debris.

This. I do it as a matter of course. When working in shop attached to an engineering firm we made good coin selling new PTO shafts or UJ's sinply because they had been left to run dry, and it showed.



The swing-arm bearings on my 2013 are a sealed unit.  No need to mess with them.

Swede, one thing I do on the Breva when I have the swingarm off is flick the outer seal off, force some grease in there and spin the bearing. The reasoning behind this is not mine. It is a standard 6000 series bearing. In a swingarm it has limited movement and does not rotate, which means the balls stay in the same spot and the grease does not get spread around. A spin and grease puts them in a different spot with a fresh layer of lube.  The reasoning made sense to me so I do it.

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2019, 03:37:36 PM »
I'm rather cranky about reliability and risk. I used to average well over 100K miles/year on cars, averaged ~45K/yr. on mc's and when I drove commercially a whole lot more. I like to be on time and was always expected to be. My inner thought was; Arrive on time w/clean hands, clothing and good humor. Yes. I'm from the 3 piece suit era.
Among others I have a '17  III racer. Regardless; any kind of breakdown or unscheduled stop can be a pain or worse. I had the dealer change to Legnano bars (1" rise), the wire spoke wheels to cast (no tubes. I have other bikes w/wire wheels). I had the dealer add K-Tech internals to the fork. The plastic/metal fuel filter changed to all metal (the same as are on the big blocks). I had the spark plug caps changed to NGK's b4 the 600 mile service. I couldn't tolerate the unreliable, poorly functioning abs. (there was no way to make it work correctly). The frt. caliper was changed to a Brembo 4 piston. The MC to a Brembo 15RCS. I also pulled the fork tubes up @ the clamps 15mm, as suggested on this list. The 3 series, in a few subtle ways, is a definite improvement over earlier models, In my view. i.e. It runs sweet right out of the crate. There's no longer a need to reprogram the FI system.
I can no longer put the miles on I used to, but why not eliminate break downs?  R3~ 


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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2019, 06:53:39 PM »
Muzz, you crack me up.   In fact, I too pry off the covers on the swing arm bearings, add a bit of grease, and give them a good spin.

I did not want to confess to that on the forum lest Kev’s head explode over such maintenance foolery that is not expressly demanded by the Sacred Owner’s Manual.   :boozing:

And yes.  I replaced the half plastic in-tank fuel filter.  Used Oeteker clamps and even wired those suckers onto the pump.  They aren’t coming off !

Sorry Kev.  Some of us just cannot leave well enough alone. 
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Offline Rhodan

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2019, 08:43:56 PM »
How exactly are you guys finding out about the recalls?

I saw it in a motorcycle mag but didn't own a v7 iii or v9 at the time.  I would assume Guzzi or your dealer would contact you.

Offline Muzz

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2019, 10:19:26 PM »
Further to the swingarm bearings:

Today I had cause to go to our bearing supplier we use.  This guy would be the most knowledgeable bearing guy I know.  His view was that using a 6000 series bearing in a swingarm which is only oscillating is not ideal. The balls not only do not move from one position, they can actually squeeze the lube out where the ball is in contact with the outer.  He expressed surprise that a needle bearing was not used at least.  He considered squeezing more lube in on a regular basis and spinning the bearing was a fairly sound idea considering the type of bearing used is not ideal to start off with with the proviso that the outer seal will be compromised somewhat for weather tightness.
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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2019, 10:20:40 PM »
How exactly are you guys finding out about the recalls?

In the past you could "back door" access to the Piaggio dealer's site and see them, but that's since been closed.  Sometimes the recalls are posted in motorcycle press, and you can search Nat. Hwy Transportation Safety Admin (NHTSA) website for them too.
Usually I hear of the recalls on several forums.

Joe
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 05:26:47 AM by sign216 »
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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2019, 06:54:55 AM »
Further to the swingarm bearings:

Today I had cause to go to our bearing supplier we use.  This guy would be the most knowledgeable bearing guy I know.  His view was that using a 6000 series bearing in a swingarm which is only oscillating is not ideal. The balls not only do not move from one position, they can actually squeeze the lube out where the ball is in contact with the outer.  He expressed surprise that a needle bearing was not used at least.  He considered squeezing more lube in on a regular basis and spinning the bearing was a fairly sound idea considering the type of bearing used is not ideal to start off with with the proviso that the outer seal will be compromised somewhat for weather tightness.

So, did he have any insight into how many miles one could go before the races where enough to make the swingarm free play out of spec? 

I am thinking that potentially more damage is done from sitting around than from constant use
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Offline roadscum

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2019, 10:56:08 AM »
Change the POS OEM fuel filter, wish I had done that before taking delivery of my V7 Special. OEM filter is 1/2 plastic 1/2 metal, a proper replacement filter will be all metal. The plastic gets soft, expands and can leak...…  leaving your stranded at road side. My V7 III  did exactly that 10 days after taking delivery with 1,300 miles on the odo as I was returning home to Florida from Ct. on a fly/ride. Some here may deny such a risk exists but my selling dealer was aware of the issue, has seen it before, and stocks full metal filters for just that reason. I had planned to swap it out when I got home but the POS OEM fuel filter didn't make that far.

When I took the initiative to change the OEM fuel filter on my one year old 1200 Sport with 12K miles on the odo I found the plastic had soften and ballooned. I'm thinking I got it in a nick of time.

I'm also of the school that thinks the OEM suspension on the V7's is inadequate, uncomfortable, and dangerous. Before taking delivery the dealer installed emulators in the forks. The 1st mod I did was to replace the shocks. No more back pain when hitting sharp bumps, no more tail wagging. Sure I fiddled with shock adjustments many times on the ride home.... not enough improvement to satisfy me.

Paul
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 11:04:03 AM by roadscum »
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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2019, 12:00:16 PM »
jacksonracingcomau: Another debatable point?
Re: Your foto of a V9 drive shaft. Art or accurate?
Does it truly indicate the positions of the universal joints?
In my distant past w/bmw's; re-enforced when I was notified and sent parts by MG (Daytona recall); If 2 universals are on a drive shaft the out reaching fingers of the 1/2 universal from the gear box should be diametrically opposed (90 deg.), to the input 1/2 universal fingers, on the bevel box. bmw explained in detail the engineering behind the design preference. Though easy to imagine. it's long gone from my mind. 
   Neither an oil, grease or tire thread but. If apologies should have been included, I'll stand to suffer.  R3~   

Offline TimmyTheHog

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2019, 01:51:06 PM »
jacksonracingcomau: Another debatable point?
Re: Your foto of a V9 drive shaft. Art or accurate?
Does it truly indicate the positions of the universal joints?
In my distant past w/bmw's; re-enforced when I was notified and sent parts by MG (Daytona recall); If 2 universals are on a drive shaft the out reaching fingers of the 1/2 universal from the gear box should be diametrically opposed (90 deg.), to the input 1/2 universal fingers, on the bevel box. bmw explained in detail the engineering behind the design preference. Though easy to imagine. it's long gone from my mind. 
   Neither an oil, grease or tire thread but. If apologies should have been included, I'll stand to suffer.  R3~

Here is the write up from Cycle-World regarding to the V9 & its U-Joints

https://www.cycleworld.com/moto-guzzi-v9-motorcycle-engine-history-and-evolution#page-8
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Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2019, 03:56:57 PM »
gets rid of v35 derived coupler that was original to gease or not question.
Why not on v7/3 ?
Answered I think by owners, only a very few have issues, to me it is far bigger deal than swinging arm bearings.
v85 will be test but if I can find a v9 wreck I’d like that on my 8v sb
pic was from web
haven’t heard of v9 shaft issues nor any big miles so only trusting factory, not a decisive “problem fixed”

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2019, 10:57:43 AM »
Thank you for your response, JRC. Apologies. I was not specific enough to gain an answer to my query.

The difference in U-joint positioning, i.e. parallel yokes as opposed to 90deg. rotational separation was the latter is/was alleged to represent less friction/wear/vibration, thus less power loss due to smoother running.

Regardless, a better reason for using 2 U-joints is most likely to be greater suspension travel. The fat tires on V9's demand 2 U-joints.  I may try asking Kevin Cameron directly. He's nearby. Or perhaps Mr. Roper will deign this worthy of comment.  Thank you,  R3~ 

Offline Muzz

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2019, 12:14:11 AM »

The difference in U-joint positioning, i.e. parallel yokes as opposed to 90deg. rotational separation was the latter is/was alleged to represent less friction/wear/vibration, thus less power loss due to smoother running.

Regardless, a better reason for using 2 U-joints is most likely to be greater suspension travel. The fat tires on V9's demand 2 U-joints.  I may try asking Kevin Cameron directly. He's nearby. Or perhaps Mr. Roper will deign this worthy of comment.  Thank you,  R3~

I am still of the opinion that a CV joint would solve some of the restrictions brought on by the use of UJ's, as well as being able to deliver greater rear suspension travel.

Any reason why one could not be used?
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
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Offline TimmyTheHog

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2019, 01:09:46 AM »
I am still of the opinion that a CV joint would solve some of the restrictions brought on by the use of UJ's, as well as being able to deliver greater rear suspension travel.

Any reason why one could not be used?

As many more advantages as CV over U Joint, it is also a lot more expensive to produce as well as to maintain at one time...

But over the long run, it is usually proven to be EVEN more costly when running U joint as replacement will usually happens more often...

So I am going to guess the cost saving plays a major factor...
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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2019, 01:18:21 AM »
A few years back I had both CV joints fail on my Acura CL type S, 6 spd.. The 1st one went out @ 427,000 mi. The second @ 532,000 mi. Never needed a clutch.  I let her go @ 585K.
Perhaps a CV joint capable of managing the amount of torque would be too large?   R3~

Offline Muzz

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2019, 03:33:50 AM »
Did you put in a warranty claim? :wink:
Muzz. Cristchurch, New Zealand
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Offline s1120

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2019, 05:43:37 AM »
As many more advantages as CV over U Joint, it is also a lot more expensive to produce as well as to maintain at one time...

But over the long run, it is usually proven to be EVEN more costly when running U joint as replacement will usually happens more often...

So I am going to guess the cost saving plays a major factor...

Im thinking size is a factor also. Even with the lower HP of these motorcycles your still going to be looking at a 2.5" + joint... with the sealing cover it will be pretty bulky.. also with just moving in one direction a correctly designed Ujoint and shaft should do the job on a normal motorcycle.
Paul B

Offline Guzzi Gal

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2019, 08:53:26 AM »
Other than the recall about the routing of wires/cables (done at first service) I have not found anything that needs to be done on my 2017 V7iii Anniversario.  It is really great as is.

^^^This.^^^

Enjoy! :thumb:
:bow: Thanks for enabling my MG obsession! :bow:

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Offline Rhodan

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2019, 02:30:53 PM »
Thanks for the additional thoughts including "just ride the thing!".   :laugh:   Interesting reading the discussions on the u joints and CV joints.

I just laid the money down for the bike (and some farkles).  If folks are curious, the splines were sufficiently greased.  Also, the recall had already been done on this bike.

The farkles or necessities (depending on your point of view) are:
  • Center stand
  • Heated Grips.  I've had Oxford before but Koso Apollo's were mentioned and what I decided to go with.  It'll be interesting to see what I think of them in action.
  • Various battery tender stuff
  • LED brake light kit (extra lights in the rear tied into the braking system)
  • ROX risers.  Short arms and want a slightly more upright position.  We'll see what I think.
  • Metal fuel filter.
  • Pazzo adjustable levers
  • Givi engine guards

I'm also going to get some hand guards (to cut the wind), a windscreen (also to cut the wind ;) ), and some luggage but still sorting all that out.

Offline Andy1

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2019, 03:12:57 PM »
On my 2014 Stone I added a piece of rubber sheet at the front of the rear mudguard to keep the gear changing mech clean.  Not sure if needed on the Mk III?
AndyB

Offline ITSec

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2019, 11:51:46 PM »
Well, I will be looking after a small block for the first time since 2011 - my fiancee has purchased a new (old stock) 2017 V7 III Stone (on my advice, since she has a free tech and riding coach now :grin: ).

A review of the machine tells me it is a significant refinement of the Breva 750 I had back then, and I'm not too worried that it might need anything exceptional in terms of attention.

Rode it back from San Diego to Palm Springs on Saturday, and it behaved exactly as I expected and wished. It'll be a great first bike for her!
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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2019, 12:09:20 AM »
^^^This.^^^

Enjoy! :thumb:
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Online twowheeladdict

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2019, 06:25:14 AM »
A few years back I had both CV joints fail on my Acura CL type S, 6 spd.. The 1st one went out @ 427,000 mi. The second @ 532,000 mi. Never needed a clutch.  I let her go @ 585K.
Perhaps a CV joint capable of managing the amount of torque would be too large?   R3~

I remember Toyota and Honda needing CV joint replacements a lot back in the 80s before they would hit 100,000. 
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Offline TimmyTheHog

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2019, 12:37:05 PM »
Im thinking size is a factor also. Even with the lower HP of these motorcycles your still going to be looking at a 2.5" + joint... with the sealing cover it will be pretty bulky.. also with just moving in one direction a correctly designed Ujoint and shaft should do the job on a normal motorcycle.

Without going into too much math (it's Friday and I need more coffee), CV design handles the changing of the direction of rotational force a lot better and  causing the issues such as pulsing & variance of speed.

However, it also means the design of a CV requires higher precision & accuracy as well as "beefier" material to handle all the different directions of forces and stresses.

So with that, CV tends to be larger in size to handle the same torque and also again, more cost associates with it...

So which one is better...it is a pot-EH-to vs po-TAH-to debate to me....it is all about the design parameter and how to use it...

This is one of the reason why I am really curious on how V9's U-joint fairs for the love of science as well as projecting to how V85 would do...


Thanks for the additional thoughts including "just ride the thing!".   :laugh:   Interesting reading the discussions on the u joints and CV joints.

I just laid the money down for the bike (and some farkles).  If folks are curious, the splines were sufficiently greased.  Also, the recall had already been done on this bike.

The farkles or necessities (depending on your point of view) are:
  • Center stand
  • Heated Grips.  I've had Oxford before but Koso Apollo's were mentioned and what I decided to go with.  It'll be interesting to see what I think of them in action.
  • Various battery tender stuff
  • LED brake light kit (extra lights in the rear tied into the braking system)
  • ROX risers.  Short arms and want a slightly more upright position.  We'll see what I think.
  • Metal fuel filter.
  • Pazzo adjustable levers
  • Givi engine guards

I'm also going to get some hand guards (to cut the wind), a windscreen (also to cut the wind ;) ), and some luggage but still sorting all that out.

To OP, great choice of carbon! Sat on the bike in the show and almost didn't want to get of it :P...

Edit: For some reason I thought u had a carbon and it stuck in my head LOL...still a great choice :P
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 12:43:38 PM by TimmyTheHog »
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Offline Rhodan

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2019, 04:36:57 PM »
Edit: For some reason I thought u had a carbon and it stuck in my head LOL...still a great choice :P

Nah, went with the Stone since I wanted cast wheels and after that, I just went with what was cheapest.

I talked to Optimum Motorsports and they're definitely going to have a V85 demo :cool:  and ...5 bikes?    Something like that.   Still sounding around May.  I may kick myself that I didn't wait.  We'll see. 

Offline Rhodan

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2019, 04:44:08 PM »
Right now I'm looking at LED replacement bulbs to support my heated gear wants.  There was a good thread on that back in December so I'm using that as the kick off point. 

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=98912.0

Besides the heated grips I'm considering the Aerostich heated bib.  30 watts/2.5 amps.    I think I can use one or the other without replacing the bulbs.  Replacing the lamps may buy me enough breather to use them both if I want without draining the battery.

Offline Rhodan

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2019, 04:54:45 PM »
I remember Toyota and Honda needing CV joint replacements a lot back in the 80s before they would hit 100,000.

My Mazda from the 90's went about 170,000 before the CV joints needed replacement.  That was a fun car in a family-car kind of way.  6 cylinder and a stick shift.  It wasn't fast but it was fun.     

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2019, 07:11:26 AM »
Right now I'm looking at LED replacement bulbs to support my heated gear wants.  There was a good thread on that back in December so I'm using that as the kick off point. 

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=98912.0

Besides the heated grips I'm considering the Aerostich heated bib.  30 watts/2.5 amps.    I think I can use one or the other without replacing the bulbs.  Replacing the lamps may buy me enough breather to use them both if I want without draining the battery.

Add a voltmeter so you can monitor the battery voltage while you ride.  I am in the process if narrowing down my choices for a voltmeter for my V7.
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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2019, 07:53:32 AM »
Add a voltmeter so you can monitor the battery voltage while you ride.  I am in the process if narrowing down my choices for a voltmeter for my V7.


A voltmeter is a good option.  I got an analog edgewise model because it goes well with the dashboard, and it fit in the space too.


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Offline Rhodan

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Re: V7iii - things that need attention from the start
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2019, 08:23:45 AM »
A voltmeter is a good idea.  I had been looking at maybe getting the multimedia accessory that sends various info to your phone.  Seems like an expensive way to get battery info though.  I'm not sure I'd use any of the other features.

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