Author Topic: How come a convert does not have a neutral?  (Read 1076 times)

Offline bigbikerrick

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How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« on: January 18, 2019, 05:29:29 PM »
I have wondered , when working on my Cal II auto, why didnt MG put a neutral between low, and high gear? It seems that if it just spun the torque converter, and not the transmission, which is always in gear.It would be nice to  be able to rev the bike, when tuning it,  etc.without it wanting to take off.
 Anyone have any idea why Guzzi did it this way?
Rick.
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2019, 05:37:25 PM »
Neutral is provided by the multi-plate dry clutch (assuming that is disengages). I use a zip-tie to hold the lever in whenever I find it necessary.
Charlie
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Online EldoMike

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2019, 06:02:27 PM »
One of my Converts from years ago had a large ring installed in a drilled hole in the ball at the end of the clutch lever...just flipped it around the grip when I wanted to keep the clutch engaged....

Offline pehayes

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2019, 07:25:53 PM »
One of my Converts from years ago had a large ring installed in a drilled hole in the ball at the end of the clutch lever...just flipped it around the grip when I wanted to keep the clutch engaged....

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Offline Guzzi relic

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2019, 07:36:59 PM »
As a new Convert owner I've wondered the same thing. The P.O. showed me the bungy cord that he kept in the fairing pocket and wrapped around the clutch lever to hold it disengaged for warm up etc.     I don't trust those things as much as he did.  :laugh:   I know it will probably never break but still I don't want to be half way through putting my gloves on and watch my bike cruise off without me.
I've been thinking of devising something a little more reliable to lock the lever against the bar and I like the "ring" idea. Thanks Eldo Mike!

Ken
I wonder where this goes?

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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2019, 08:18:55 PM »
Neutral is provided by the multi-plate dry clutch (assuming that is disengages). I use a zip-tie to hold the lever in whenever I find it necessary.

There was an ' N' light on the dash if clutch was pulled in. The unit was in the cable w/2 wires going to it.
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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2019, 09:19:19 PM »
As a new Convert owner I've wondered the same thing. The P.O. showed me the bungy cord that he kept in the fairing pocket and wrapped around the clutch lever to hold it disengaged for warm up etc.     I don't trust those things as much as he did.  :laugh:   I know it will probably never break but still I don't want to be half way through putting my gloves on and watch my bike cruise off without me.
I've been thinking of devising something alittle more reliable to lock the lever against the bar and I like the "ring" idea. Thanks Eldo Mike!

Ken
if running right the side stand brake should be all you need to keep it from running away. Your idle may be too high.
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Offline chuck peterson

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2019, 08:40:06 AM »
Just like an automatic car, it doesn't need one....

Funny I've never done that w the clutch lever during maintenance (bungee, etc) ....I could just barely hold back the bike with my feet at idle, add a little right brake lever and your sitting still w both feet on the ground. I never used the clutch lever to sit still, but used the brakes first.

On the side stand the rear parking brake should do the job, but since everybody threw those away....

On the centerstand I would suggest holding down the FOOT brake to stop any motion so you can tune/adjust idle/mess up on the carbs,.... not pull in the clutch lever.

My famous guzzi moment came when Mike Baldwin #43 chastised me for letting my vert idle on the centerstand "while in gear..." At Marcus Dairy years ago...

I walked over and stepped on the foot brake, stopping the spinning wheel but not the motor....and about 20 heads exploded in the on lookers as they observed what was not possible....
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Offline Guzzi relic

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2019, 06:57:47 PM »
Starting cold, enrichers on, it takes a couple of minutes of warm up before the bike is ready to ride off. During this time, if the clutch was engaged the bike would roll away. Once the I drop the enrichers and the idle slows to its normal rate all is good.
I usually start my bikes and let them warm while I finish gearing up; helmet and gloves etc.
 As for the side stand brake, as purchased this mechanism is missing some expensive parts but as my Convert is doing side car duty a "parking" brake would be an asset.

Ken
I wonder where this goes?

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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2019, 07:08:39 PM »
Starting cold, enrichers on, it takes a couple of minutes of warm up before the bike is ready to ride off. During this time, if the clutch was engaged the bike would roll away. Once the I drop the enrichers and the idle slows to its normal rate all is good.
I usually start my bikes and let them warm while I finish gearing up; helmet and gloves etc.
 As for the side stand brake, as purchased this mechanism is missing some expensive parts but as my Convert is doing side car duty a "parking" brake would be an asset.

Ken

I use the enrichers as little as possible, the size Guzzi fitted are really too large and it's just dumping too much fuel into the cylinders. I gear up first then key on, two twists of the throttle and then feather the throttle until it's warmed enough to go. Haven't needed to use the enrichers even down into the 30s (F).
Charlie
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Online nick949

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2019, 07:48:26 PM »
Starting cold, enrichers on, it takes a couple of minutes of warm up before the bike is ready to ride off. During this time, if the clutch was engaged the bike would roll away. Once the I drop the enrichers and the idle slows to its normal rate all is good.
I usually start my bikes and let them warm while I finish gearing up; helmet and gloves etc.
 As for the side stand brake, as purchased this mechanism is missing some expensive parts but as my Convert is doing side car duty a "parking" brake would be an asset.

Ken

A creative guy like you could rig something up from the sidecar frame to hold the foot brake engaged until you're ready to roll. Perhaps a foot version of the throttle assist thingy you showed me.

Nick

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2019, 08:12:20 PM »
A creative guy like you could rig something up from the sidecar frame to hold the foot brake engaged until you're ready to roll. Perhaps a foot version of the throttle assist thingy you showed me.

Nick

Urals have just that type of parking brake..

Offline gearman

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2019, 09:34:48 AM »
I machined off the gear teeth on low in the transmission on one of my verts. This gave me a neutral.

Online s1120

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2019, 09:46:01 AM »
Just like an automatic car, it doesn't need one....

..

Auto cars have a park that locks the tailshaft from spinning, and they have a neutral. the few cars that dont have a park, [ie corvairs] all had neutral, and parking brakes. 
Paul B

Offline brider

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2019, 09:52:40 AM »
I machined off the gear teeth on low in the transmission on one of my verts. This gave me a neutral.

THIS sounds like a good idea! I'm kinda surprised I haven't read/heard about it in This Old Tractor.

I recall years ago Mike Tiberio selling a Convert that he had modified a true neutral into, not sure how, but I remember thinking THAT would be handy.

Mark Ethredge and others have made cool custom Converts with the clutch lever completely removed for that Cal "clean" look.

My current Cal II Auto has such a worn clutch hub, that pulling in the clutch is mostly ineffective unless I also stomp on the brake and open the throttle to put some HP thru the clutch to coax the plate(s) to separate. It's getting annoying, but because I can technically live without the clutch, I'll pass on fixing it  :boozing:

Without the factory parking brake, I would NEVER, EVER, leave the bike on the sidestand with the lever pulled with a zip-tie. That's asking for a youtube "fail" video.

I, too, tossed my parking brake years ago, but I'm thinking now I'd like to have it back, just for the coolness-factor. Where they really that effective? I know that sounds like a dumb question, but why did so many of us toss them?
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2019, 10:09:17 AM »
I, too, tossed my parking brake years ago, but I'm thinking now I'd like to have it back, just for the coolness-factor. Where they really that effective? I know that sounds like a dumb question, but why did so many of us toss them?

My sidestand actuated brake is very effective, other Convert owners have reported them not being effective at all. Perhaps because I rebuilt mine with NOS parts and carefully adjusted it.
Charlie
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Most used word in my vocabulary lately: "whatever", usually delivered with all of the disdain of an aging Valley Girl...

Online Cam3512

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2019, 05:11:30 PM »
I use the enrichers as little as possible, the size Guzzi fitted are really too large and it's just dumping too much fuel into the cylinders. I gear up first then key on, two twists of the throttle and then feather the throttle until it's warmed enough to go. Haven't needed to use the enrichers even down into the 30s (F).

Like any bike of mine you ever touched, the enricher lever is never touched.
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Online wymple

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2019, 01:03:04 PM »
Auto cars have a park that locks the tailshaft from spinning, and they have a neutral. the few cars that dont have a park, [ie corvairs] all had neutral, and parking brakes.

I find this interesting to me. I had an early 60's Corvair with the auto, lever coming out of the dash. Danged if I can remember whether or not it had Park on it. I loved that little bugger, too.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 01:03:43 PM by wymple »
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Online s1120

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2019, 02:13:09 PM »
I find this interesting to me. I had an early 60's Corvair with the auto, lever coming out of the dash. Danged if I can remember whether or not it had Park on it. I loved that little bugger, too.

Yup love that lever on the dash!!  And nope... no park on them. 
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Offline bigbikerrick

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2019, 04:11:30 PM »
The sidestand brake on my Cal II auto works very well. The adjustment of the cable and the finer adjustment on the 2 "pucks" is critical, to get it to grab when parked, but not drag, when running.
Once properly adjusted, I have found that  it works just fine.
Rick.
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Online Tom

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2019, 04:33:40 PM »
The adjusted park brake works on my Convert.   :thumb: Clutch not so much.
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Offline Guzzi relic

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Re: How come a convert does not have a neutral?
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2019, 08:16:47 PM »
I use the enrichers as little as possible, the size Guzzi fitted are really too large and it's just dumping too much fuel into the cylinders. I gear up first then key on, two twists of the throttle and then feather the throttle until it's warmed enough to go. Haven't needed to use the enrichers even down into the 30s (F).

When I finish the Eldo engine work and move on to the Convert, one thing on my list is to go through the carbs. The bike was running fine but the right side was lean sneezing for a couple of minutes after flipping the enrichers off. Once fully warmed up it was ok and would idle fine though. The P.O. made a point of telling me it needed a long warm up time before riding off.

Ken
 
I wonder where this goes?

1974 Eldorado
1976 Convert

 


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