Author Topic: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM  (Read 10756 times)

Offline Meinolf

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #90 on: November 10, 2018, 12:27:47 PM »
Hi Omo,

you should have mentioned earlier that you are referring to a two lambda model. The code is quite different from the one lambda models and the offsets also. My focus is still on the one lambda BIN and I haven't spent much time yet on the two lambda BIN.

But, here's a look at the current status of the two lambda BIN. The offset of the idle fuel is 0x4D78C, y- and x-axis are the same, idle rpm and stepper motor values.
 




Cheers
Meinolf
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 12:42:05 PM by Meinolf »

Offline Meinolf

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #91 on: November 10, 2018, 12:38:06 PM »
Hi Omo,

I am assuming that the idle fuel table is in use when PADS shows message idle on its screen, and thats when the lambda correction values are also very high.
When I give it some revs the PADS shows off idle and the lambda correction values come back to normal +/- 5%.

I'm not familiar with PADS, I work with GuzziDiag only, so the idle status as shown in PADS might be different from the one shown in GuzziDiag. But, let's assume PADS also uses the OBD function, then the reported status should be the same.

I assume you have checked other potential causes such as defective stepper motor or air leakage (bypass screws?) and have reset TPS and learned values?

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Meinolf

Offline Omobono

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #92 on: November 10, 2018, 01:15:28 PM »
Hi Meinolf,

Yes I have checked the stepper motor and done the normal tune-ups, TPS/learned values resets etc.

It is odd that the problem is in both cylinders. Both lambda corrections (left/right) are high when idling. Thats why I am thinking there cant be something mechanically broken/air leaks etc... on both cylinders.

I just thought that tweaking the idle fuel table would give me some answers. But if it cant be done then I just have to keep on trying to figure out what is wrong with this bike.

Ciao
Omo

Offline Meinolf

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #93 on: November 10, 2018, 02:40:18 PM »
Hi Omo,

my mistake, of course you can change the values in the idle fuel table, I've done so.

What I was trying to say is that the matching logged AFR data against the rpm/stepper position values to change values based on measurements is difficult, I haven't found a fact-based approach yet.

The problem is that logging stepper values in sync with TPS and rpm is not possible with the logging equipment I use. Stepper values are sent with a low frequency (12Hz in total, shared by all values requested) as OBD packets, while the data logger (ZT-2) samples at 60Hz and is directly connected to TPS and rpm signal, so sync'ing the data stream is not possible.

So, change away, but it's a hit and miss procedure.

Cheers
Meinolf

Offline Meinolf

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #94 on: November 10, 2018, 02:55:27 PM »
Hi Omo,

It is odd that the problem is in both cylinders. Both lambda corrections (left/right) are high when idling. Thats why I am thinking there cant be something mechanically broken/air leaks etc... on both cylinders.

if it concerns both cylinders one possible avenue to explore could be the lambda sensors. Either check the sensors or disable closed loop to eliminate one or both of them as possible cause.

It seems unlikely that the idle values should suddenly (that's my assumption) should be wrong, the influence must be elsewhere. Hence changing the idle fuel values would be working on the symptom, not the root cause.

Cheers
Meinolf

Offline Meinolf

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #95 on: January 21, 2019, 11:41:49 PM »
Hi,

the exploration of the code is proceeding steadily, but the low hanging fruits are picked and learning curve gets flatter.

Last year I noticed several times that idle rpm when stopping with gear engaged and clutch pulled was several hundreds revs higher than expected. In the meantime we found the RAM variables representing the status of clutch and neutral, so this was revisited.

Actuating the clutch causes a change between the two idle ignition tables. Increasing the timing leads to, within certain limits, increased engine power and thus to higher rpm if everything else is unchanged. But, in the 2230 BIN for the Norge 1200 2V both tables contain the same values, so this was not the cause of the increased idle rpm.





However, this serves as a good example for the flexibility of the program code. While this function seems unnecessary on a bike with a dry clutch, it makes sense with a wet clutch. The friction between the clutch plates due to the oil viscosity will act like a brake and lead to a drop of the idle rpm.

The 2230 uses only one main ignition table , the values for the right cylinder are calculated separately as a delta value, if the TPS in the "not closed" state. We also found the steering and learning function responsible for determining the change from closed to open and from open to WOT.

Cheers
Meinolf

Offline Meinolf

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #96 on: January 21, 2019, 11:51:46 PM »
Hi,

the idle ignition function of the 3222 BIN is basically the same. However, a few twists were added.

Not only does the clutch switch act as branch condition for switching between the two idle functions, but the neutral switch is added. Which, following the thoughts about the increased friction between the clutch plates, makes a lot of sense. In neutral with the gears not engaged the friction would not be a factor.





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Meinolf

Offline Meinolf

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #97 on: January 22, 2019, 12:02:20 AM »
Hi,

seeing that the identical values used in both idle ignition tables would not lead to changes in idle rpm, another direction was explored. Which is concerning the changes caused by engine temperature.

The 2230 has two idle ignition tables which trim ignition in line with engine temperature and are also selected by the clutch switch. Which makes sense, as the oil viscosity and thereby the braking effect will decrease with increased oil temperature. If the clutch is a wet type. Which it isn't, so again identical trim values in both tables.





And the question could be asked if this control mechanism is needed in an engine with idle stepper control in the first place.

Cheers
Meinolf


Offline Meinolf

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #98 on: January 22, 2019, 12:05:42 AM »
Hi,

above might explain why one of the two idle ignition temperature trim tables was dropped from the 3222 BIN.





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Meinolf

Offline Meinolf

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #99 on: January 22, 2019, 12:15:23 AM »
Hi,

while, driven by curiousity, a Ducati 5AM BIN was analyzed in between, the main focus is on the Guzzi 2230, then the Guzzi 3222 and finally the Aprilia Mana BIN. And thus it was interesting to find a parameter setting a number of possible gear box configurations.

The parameter at 0x4CF60 (2230, a different offset in the 3222) contains values from 1-6 and 20 and 21. The values from 1-6 represent the number of gears, though a transmission with two or three gears probably is no longer state of the art. The value 20 is used if the bike is using a CVT automatic transmission, as is the case with the Mana. The function of value 21 is unclear, but it is queried as branching condition value in the code. Possibly for a different automatic transmission or a double clutch system.





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Meinolf

Online pauldaytona

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #100 on: January 22, 2019, 03:46:28 AM »
Meinolf,

in the griso map, what addresses are the different idle ignition tables? The 2230G803 map I use does have the idle rise with pulled clutch and not in neutral, Switching to neutral gest idel normal again.
Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline Meinolf

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #101 on: January 22, 2019, 04:54:21 AM »
Hi Paul,

the offsets are for the idle ignition maps are legible in the picture above, 48D9E and 48DFE.

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Meinolf

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #102 on: January 22, 2019, 08:19:40 AM »
Yes they are different, now waiting until its a bit hotter to test. I had it most when hot. I see the normal ignition/temp table doesn't do anything over 7 degree. And making both ignition tables the same didn't change your behaviour. The neutral switch makes the difference, switching to neutral makes idle good again.

Paul

Daytona 1225, Stelvio 1151





Download Guzzidiag here: http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/

Offline Meinolf

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #103 on: January 22, 2019, 09:47:38 AM »
Hi Paul,

yes, moving to neutral leads to a normal idle.

Finding the code section which uses the neutral flag and leads to functions which would influence idle speed is a challenge, though. One of the most convoluted subs uses the neutral flag about a dozen times. Working thru it and backtracking the numerous other variables called takes days and weeks, and that's only one of hundreds of subs and thousands of possible combinations including timing conditions.






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Meinolf

Offline Meinolf

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Re: ECU Simulator next gen - 5AM
« Reply #104 on: February 23, 2019, 05:34:41 AM »
Hi,

some more tidbits, this time with the focus on the fuel acceleration function. Which takes cares of adding or subtracting fuel if the throttle if moved rapidly.

The underlying model is called X-Tau and takes into account

X, the amount of fuel clinging to the port walls, etc.,
and
Tau, the time it takes for the film to dissipate.

More details can be found here: http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/xtau.htm

The calculation is handled by two subprograms, in which an enormous amount of scaling takes place. The first one covers the scaling of TPS and rpm.








The 2nd sub handles the scaling of engine and air temperature. The cut-off rpm for acceleration/deceleration fuel change is 7000rpm.





Next comes the code which handles TPS change speed and amount, based on comparisons between current and historical values.





Now the calculation of  fuel_time values for the boundary -0,5°TPS > TPS change > 0,5°TPS. The -0.5/0.5° are the thresholds below which no fuel re-calc takes place.





The a final scaling and the result are fuel_accel_left- and  fuel_accel_right values, which then are added to the fuel time values calculated in the previous code sections.





Cheers
Meinolf

« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 05:38:00 AM by Meinolf »

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