V7III Racer: New N. American Ltd. Ed.

[s1120]

Guess I am on the opposite boat lol..

I like the paint theme as well as the blacked out pipe & head...

again, looks are subjective

Ya big time..  The bike is cool, and its not that the look is bad... I just dont really like white on a bike, or car...  Just a preference..  Now if I could get it in that green the old 750S came in....  :) 

[Perazzimx14]

Contrary to popular belief you of all people should know that I don't disagree JUST to be argumentative.

But my disagreement in this case is with the attitude that everything needs more hp, less weight, cost less, etc.

That every manufacturer needs to come out with a new motor, new chassis, etc. every single year.

That there's something wrong with "BNG" - for gawd's sake, of course it's just a paint job, where was anyone trying to suggest it was something more.

But to that end if someone didn't like the looks of the previous version(s) this could be a game changer. Hell, who knows, Jenn really likes the red frames, but didn't like the look of the Stornello or Racer previously, but had THIS been on the floor next to the Carbon, this might have been enough to woo her.

It's one of the only Racers I would have ever considered for the same reason.

Now that said, I agree a V85-based Racer could be the perfect next generation for the Racer and I agree they should go that direction - if there's ONE model of the V7 line that "needs" more power and an even better chassis it should be the Racer. I think USD forks, dual discs, and more hp sound like what the Racer looks and name always promised, so that would make a lot of sense.

But the time isn't right for that. They are just rolling out the V85, and it would be stupid to take away from that in any way yet.

And if a company really "needs" a NEW bla bla bla - every year - then next year maybe it will be a V85 Racer or better yet Lemans.

That doesn't detract from this being a great V7 variant.

Yes but after 41 years it hard to argue Guzzi has beat this platform to death. This is a far cry from anythgin new or exciting.

[jas67]

Guzzi's shining the same turd since 2010

Now you sound like Roper  . 


Haven't owned three different versions of this platform, I to say that each iteration has gotten progressively better, nothing revolutionary, but, definitely evolutionary.

I have to agree with the spirit of Kev's comments regarding faster not necessarily being better.

My main reason in suggesting that the V85 motor in the V7 chassis would be that it would be more marketable in this, faster-is-better world.

I do also understand that, as another pointed out, that it is a good idea for Guzzi to prove out the V85 motor in the V85TT, before putting it in other bikes as well.

[twowheeladdict]

So where you live less power makes you faster in the curves?

Did you really write that?  Don't even know what to say to a comment like that.   

[Perazzimx14]

Now you sound like Roper  . 


Haven't owned three different versions of this platform, I to say that each iteration has gotten progressively better, nothing revolutionary, but, definitely evolutionary.

I have to agree with the spirit of Kev's comments regarding faster not necessarily being better.

My main reason in suggesting that the V85 motor in the V7 chassis would be that it would be more marketable in this, faster-is-better world.

I do also understand that, as another pointed out, that it is a good idea for Guzzi to prove out the V85 motor in the V85TT, before putting it in other bikes as well.

I'll go further and having owned a 1981 V50-MK3 and a 2012 V7 at the same time I can't say they were drastically different motorcycles.

I've said it before 90% of the riding public can't use all the power of a Ninja 250. I not saying the V7 needs a 195 hp motor actually never even mentioned power. My point on the small blocks is after 41 years this platform has been beaten to death. For crying out loud they are still using damper rods forks and dual shocks with 3 inches of travel. While the Tonti frame sorta stands the test of time there is a lot of the bike that doesn't.






 

[Kev m]

For crying out loud they are still using damper rods forks and dual shocks with 3 inches of travel.

[Bulldog9]

Kev's just keeping his post count dominance ;-) 27K+...... fast approaching a "brazillion"   

I like this Stone Version

https://www.af1racingaustin.com/2019-v7-iii-stone-night-pack

And why, other than to be argumentative, would you disagree so much on this?

I mean really, yes, the white and red paint scheme is good looking, and way better than the chrome for those like you who don't like the chrome, but, come on, as others have pointed out, its another case of BNG (Bold New Graphics).

A V85 based racer would much better be able to compete (sales wise) with the likes of the Ducati Scrambler cafe in the more-HP-is-better market that is the USA.

[gerryp]

<snip>

I like this Stone Version

https://www.af1racingaustin.com/2019-v7-iii-stone-night-pack

Hmmm, I wonder if that led headlight will retro fit to my '15 Stone.

Gerry

[Kev m]

Hmmm, I wonder if that led headlight will retro fit to my '15 Stone.

Gerry

and that tail light!

Pretty nice.

I looked at the specs and got excited for a moment, then realized it hadn't actually lost 50+ pounds, they just can't do conversion math again....

[rocker59]

I do not understand this obsession with putting ohlins shocks on a bike with a stock fork

I just can't imagine $2000 worth of rear suspension paired with that front end 

+1.   Silly as all hell.  Why won't they add a decent USD for to the things?  The stock forks suck.  I just don't get it.

[Kev m]

+1.   Silly as all hell.  Why won't they add a decent USD for to the things?  The stock forks suck.  I just don't get it.

A. Because most won't know or care.

2. Because of cost.

III. Because they will keep that for higher end products as a point of differentiation. Now we're seeing that on the V85, so hopefully we'll see it (and dual discs) on some sort of V85 Racer/Lemans or the like in a year or so. And honestly, the Stone will still be fine as is for most buyers.

[rocker59]

A. Because most won't know or care.

2. Because of cost.

III. Because they will keep that for higher end products as a point of differentiation. Now we're seeing that on the V85, so hopefully we'll see it (and dual discs) on some sort of V85 Racer/Lemans or the like in a year or so. And honestly, the Stone will still be fine as is for most buyers.

Will they know about the Ohlins on the back?

Playing Devil's advocate here, but slapping Ohlins shocks on a bike with crap forks doesn't accomplish much.  Those that don't know don't care.  Those that know are confused by the lack of upgrade to the forks.

If a customer knows what Ohlins are, that customer also knows the Bargain Basement Asian Forks are crap.  If a Customer doesn't know what Ohlins are, why put them on?

And while it's on my mind, what 3rd grader penned the stripes on the tank?  Those are about the worst graphics I've ever seen on a Guzzi.  Come on, team.  WTF, over?

[Kev m]

Will they know about the Ohlins on the back?

Playing Devil's advocate here, but slapping Ohlins shocks on a bike with crap forks doesn't accomplish much.  Those that don't know don't care.  Those that know are confused by the lack of upgrade to the forks.

If a customer knows what Ohlins are, that customer also knows the Bargain Basement Asian Forks are crap.  If a Customer doesn't know what Ohlins are, why put them on?

And while it's on my mind, what 3rd grader penned the stripes on the tank?  Those are about the worst graphics I've ever seen on a Guzzi.  Come on, team.  WTF, over?

True, you make good points. And I would further counter my own argument with the fact that this is supposed to be a special edition, so what a great time to test the waters on USD forks and/or dual discs on the Racer and if this model suddenly sells more than the regular racer they have their motivation to pursue it further right?

I don't mind, granted don't love, but don't mind the stripes. I really dislike the chrome tanks...REALLY...

That said, I bet there are enough guys who kinda "know" what Ohlins are and would like to brag about it, but don't really care or know better the reality of them or the forks. I would guess that would still be the majority of customers.

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

[bad Chad]

Perhaps the factory was able to negotiate a killer price for the shocks, but not so much for the usd forks?

I think Kev may have it mostly right.  Surely, to keep the price down, MG has gone with lower end suspension parts, and they probably work fine for most riders.  Those who find the stock set up lacking can up grade, and many do.   It makes sense from a business standpoint, although it would be interesting to see how well a trick racer would sell for a higher price.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

+1.   Silly as all hell.  Why won't they add a decent USD for to the things?  The stock forks suck.  I just don't get it.

I dont even think they need USD or ohlins forks on the front... just progressive springs and 3-way adjustability in the stock set-up... slap a Tricolor sticker on the leg that highlights the upgraded internals, put the ohlins on the back, and call it good

[Rusnak_322]

Perhaps the factory was able to negotiate a killer price for the shocks, but not so much for the usd forks?

I think Kev may have it mostly right.  Surely, to keep the price down, MG has gone with lower end suspension parts, and they probably work fine for most riders.  Those who find the stock set up lacking can up grade, and many do.   It makes sense from a business standpoint, although it would be interesting to see how well a trick racer would sell for a higher price.

that is my guess. the shocks cost zero to install vs the old ones. the forks would require new triple clamps, possibly new hub, bearings, axle, headlight and gauge mounts, disk, caliper...

 

[s1120]

I dont even think they need USD or ohlins forks on the front... just progressive springs and 3-way adjustability in the stock set-up... slap a Tricolor sticker on the leg that highlights the upgraded internals, put the ohlins on the back, and call it good

Yes, this...  A good size fork tube, with some good springs, and so upgraded valving would fit the bike fine, and keep the vintage vibe...  Really on a old tech frame, shaft drive, twin shock, low power, long bike...  all a rock solid USD fork will do is bring out the next weakness down the line.. and it will kill the vintage flair, and give it more of a street fighter look...  what is fine, but dont think thats what Guzzi is going for at this time. But really... the tech is out there to beef up the front forks to match the rear. Weither they would  it to a stone, or a special...  who knows, but the racer should have it... 

[Perazzimx14]

Yes, this...  A good size fork tube, with some good springs, and so upgraded valving would fit the bike fine, and keep the vintage vibe...  Really on a old tech frame, shaft drive, twin shock, low power, long bike...  all a rock solid USD fork will do is bring out the next weakness down the line.. and it will kill the vintage flair, and give it more of a street fighter look...  what is fine, but dont think thats what Guzzi is going for at this time. But really... the tech is out there to beef up the front forks to match the rear. Weither they would  it to a stone, or a special...  who knows, but the racer should have it...

Since damper rod forks rely on holes to control the fluid flow there is little you can do to them. What would be considered a upgrade to a hole? What you can do with damper rod forks modify the holes and use different fluid viscosity to control the flow of fluid to the amount of dampening you desire. But since most folks don;t have the ability to do this you can also help the situation with thing like Gold Valves or Ricor Intiminators. They work good and the front suspension will be more tolerable but i'll never be a modern USD cartridge fork.

Springs are springs. They are neither good nor bad. Having the right weight springs in the forks to match your weight and riding style is where you will benefit. 

 

[rocker59]

Adjustable conventional forks would be fine.  the 40mm stockers have plenty of diameter.  It's what's inside them that sucks. 

I offer exhibit A.  This is how a top of the line retro cafe racer should be equipped.  Triumph finally saw the light a few years ago:

[rocker59]

that is my guess. the shocks cost zero to install vs the old ones. the forks would require new triple clamps, possibly new hub, bearings, axle, headlight and gauge mounts, disk, caliper...

Over in the Griso parts bin, they have everything, except a bolt-on triple clamp assembly.   And the Griso assembly might only just need a new stem...  But even if not, ordering up a couple hundred sets of triple clamps for a low-volume outfit like Guzzi is par for the course.  Front brake disk rotors are all industry standard Brembo-type 320mm, and have been on all Guzzis for 20-years.

[Kev m]

Adjustable conventional forks would be fine.  the 40mm stockers have plenty of diameter.  It's what's inside them that sucks. 

I offer exhibit A.  This is how a top of the line retro cafe racer should be equipped.  Triumph finally saw the light a few years ago:

Why is this even part of the conversation?!? It has ALMOST nothing to do with a V7 Racer.


Thruxton R - $15,400 msrp, 1200cc, water-cooled, 97 crank hp.

V7 III Racer - $10,655 msrp, 750cc, air-cooled, 52 crank hp.


That's basically $5000 MORE for the Triumph (yeah I'm rounding up a couple hundred, but still).

That's basically a NEW leftover (or almost new) V7 Stone EXTRA for the Thruxton.

Two very different bikes, despite their retro sporting theme.

You might as well bring the Thruxton TFC into this conversation MSRP $21,500.


But if you INSIST in comparing a Triumph, there was the Street Cup:

Street Cup - $10,500 MSRP, 900cc wate-cooled, 54 crank hp

Let me quote Spurg from ZLA:

The budget-minded KYB suspension found on the Street Twin remains relatively unchanged in the Street Cup. The Street Cup utilizes the same springs, damping rates, and 4.7 inches of travel in the front fork with minor changes to the rear suspenders. The shocks receive a slightly stiffer initial spring rate with a bit more compression and rebound damping. The only adjustment remains the five-position preload selector on the rear shocks.

apples - apples

[Perazzimx14]

Why is this even part of the conversation?!? It has ALMOST nothing to do with a V7 Racer.


Thruxton R - $15,400 msrp, 1200cc, water-cooled, 97 crank hp.

V7 III Racer - $10,655 msrp, 750cc, air-cooled, 52 crank hp.


That's basically $5000 MORE for the Triumph (yeah I'm rounding up a couple hundred, but still).

That's basically a NEW leftover (or almost new) V7 Stone EXTRA for the Thruxton.

Two very different bikes, despite their retro sporting theme.

You might as well bring the Thruxton TFC into this conversation MSRP $21,500.


But if you INSIST in comparing a Triumph, there was the Street Cup:

Street Cup - $10,500 MSRP, 900cc wate-cooled, 54 crank hp

Let me quote Spurg from ZLA:

apples - apples

I think R-59 is pointing out that USD forks do fit the modern retro motorcycle and Triumph figured that out some time ago. I don't think he is comparing the cost or HP.

[rocker59]

Why is this even part of the conversation?!? 

Because I brought it in.   

I think R-59 is pointing out that USD forks do fit the modern retro motorcycle and Triumph figured that out some time ago. I don't think he is comparing the cost or HP.

Yes.  Exactly.  Triumph has proven with Thruxton.  Norton has proven with Commando.  USD forks work on a retro cafe racer. 

Adding better forks to the Racer is the right thing to do.  They don't have to be Ohlins.  Pedestrian model Ducatis have done fine with Showa for decades.  But please Piaggio/Guzzi, do something  about the forks on your top line retro models. 

[Kev m]

I think R-59 is pointing out that USD forks do fit the modern retro motorcycle and Triumph figured that out some time ago. I don't think he is comparing the cost or HP.

Ahh, yeah, ok, that. Thanks for the assist, I appreciate the translation from English to whatever the hell I speak. 

Because I brought it in.   


Yes.  Exactly.  Triumph has proven with Thruxton.  Norton has proven with Commando.  USD forks work on a retro cafe racer. 

Adding better forks to the Racer is the right thing to do.  They don't have to be Ohlins.  Pedestrian model Ducatis have done fine with Showa for decades.  But please Piaggio/Guzzi, do something  about the forks on your top line retro models.

Fair enough - again you won't hear disagreement from me.

Actually I have no problem with that at all.

Again, would make sense to have tiers here.

Base (Stone etc.) - blacked out, single instrument pods, crappy(er) forks.

Middle (Special and a few) - dual clocks, some chrome, nicer paint, better forks.

Top (Racer / LeMans)  - more power, USD forks, dual discs, keep the Ohlins etc.

[Rusnak_322]

If they were to do anything, I would love to see these forks!   

[twowheeladdict]

Will they know about the Ohlins on the back?

Playing Devil's advocate here, but slapping Ohlins shocks on a bike with crap forks doesn't accomplish much.  Those that don't know don't care.  Those that know are confused by the lack of upgrade to the forks.

If a customer knows what Ohlins are, that customer also knows the Bargain Basement Asian Forks are crap.  If a Customer doesn't know what Ohlins are, why put them on?

And while it's on my mind, what 3rd grader penned the stripes on the tank?  Those are about the worst graphics I've ever seen on a Guzzi.  Come on, team.  WTF, over?

The customer that cares and knows will also know that they need to get springs for their weight and the suspension set up for their riding style so they prefer that it comes with budget suspension so they can make it the way they want. 

The upcharge for those Ohlins is pretty minimal so hopefully they function well.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I know what you kids are saying, but certainly Guzzi isn’t going to drop the new motor into other platforms without first getting real world feedback getting them sorted out by th owners of the v85 first.

FIFY 

[JeffOlson]

In my very subjective opinion, it would not take much to turn the Racer into a more realistic version of itself, something that does not appear to be pretending to be anything more than it is. Moto Guzzi has done it before:

[twowheeladdict]

In my very subjective opinion, it would not take much to turn the Racer into a more realistic version of itself, something that does not appear to be pretending to be anything more than it is. Moto Guzzi has done it before:

That was my first Moto Guzzi.  It really did need rear sets like the Racer has for the ergonomics to be correct.  Otherwise, it was a beautiful motorcycle.   

[Roebling3]

JeffOlson. twowheeladdict:
Great looking V7, including the color. To be seen is to be safe-r.
Whomever owns that bike; please tell me the fairing source/manufacturer. 
    Thanx,  R3~   

2017 V7-3 Racer: K-Tech fork innards, Brembo RCS 15 master (adj. swing type lever), 4 pad Brembo caliper, Stone wheels, powder coated cream. Legnano bars, Metal fuel filter, NGK plug cap conversion, brown suede and smooth leather seat w/red stitching, Marlin wind screen, front fender extended, tank and side covers all in dark brown with gold pearl. Front fender has a red stripe on crown. Side covers with diagonal red checkerboards & white stripes.