Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: benebob on April 26, 2019, 12:07:26 PM
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Since I simply get snarky comments that I have a bad additude (because I guess I should be thankful I have a useless bike sitting here) from people on this site and then moderators lock threads I am still waiting for an answer to what I feel is a pretty simple question. How long would you expect to wait for Guzzi to make a decision on what they are doing for warranty for a bike that is not usable (and has less than 1000 miles)?
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I can’t with how long is a reasonable wait but I would expect the warranty to be extended for as many days as it’s in the shop.
Call weekly and document and don’t hold your breath for a quick decision from Piaggio
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I have found that dealer support is key. If they don't care and push, the manufacturer don't care.
If your dealer isn't pushing Piaggio, then you should be pushing them both. Squeaky wheel and all that sort of talk is very true.
If I only had one bike to ride I would be pissed if it were down for a warranty claim at the start of most people's riding season. Confrontation is your friend in these instances.
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Confrontation is never your friend . What will work is persistence , documentation , and the direct approach . When you lose your cool and start
yelling , even those folks who are willing and able to help will become unavailable . Yeah , getting all worked up and indignant works for about 15 minutes , being consistent and firm is a better long term approach .
That is why the previous thread about this was locked , it wasn't accomplishing anything , and challenging that decision does nothing positive .
Now , let's try to remain calm and solve this , are we clear ?
Dusty
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When I was doing warrenty claims as part of being in charge of the service department at a motorcycle dealership, not Guzzi, I would try very hard to get claims approved. If the customer was polite but firm it was easier to be motivated to help. I could understand the customer was upset but if they had the attitude that I wasn't doing my job, sometimes being in the middle of a contentious process, I was a lot less motivated to help. Dusty has given correct advice.
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Not more than three years is about expectable.
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From personal experience: We're easily talking about months, and dealer support is vital.
I don't believe much in being confrontational. Leave that to a dealer with a good standing with Piaggio.
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Confrontation is never your friend . What will work is persistence , documentation , and the direct approach . When you lose your cool and start
yelling , even those folks who are willing and able to help will become unavailable . Yeah , getting all worked up and indignant works for about 15 minutes , being consistent and firm is a better long term approach .
That is why the previous thread about this was locked , it wasn't accomplishing anything , and challenging that decision does nothing positive .
Now , let's try to remain calm and solve this , are we clear ?
Dusty
I chose the wrong word there. I meant to stick up for yourself. Be your own advocate. Be persistent.
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Coming from a former powersports service manager.
It's absolutely vital to have the dealership on your side - the service manager in particular. They are the ones who will go to bat for you with Piaggio. Direct any ire at Piaggio warranty - not the product and not the dealership. State your case. Elicit empathy at a minimum, sympathy if possible.
Remember, the dealership doesn't want to damage their relationship with Piaggio for your sake. They have to work with them long after you've gone on your way.
Manufacturers are often like insurance companies - they'll look for any reason to deny a claim because they're utterly paranoid of being taken advantage of - by dealers and customers alike. Whether or not you think that's justified or rational, it's a fact.
If I had a good rapport with a customer and there was a legitimate grievance, I was happy to be a tenacious advocate on their behalf. If it was just someone who had a breakdown when they thought they shouldn't have? Well, life isn't always fair.
If someone starts throwing lawyer terms around, the conversation will get very quiet indeed.
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I was 1 month into waiting for Empire motorsports (Guzzi Dealer) in Spokane to fix my smoking Norge with no answer forthcoming from Corp so they transferred the bike to Seattle and It was fixed there within the week by Misha and crew At Moto International.
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Does your state have a lemon law? I would be looking for my money back if they can't put in on the road fast, it's a brand new bike, right?
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I've had three warranty claims with Guzzi. First was on my 1200 Sport with the dash failing. Bike was about a year old and dealer was 100 miles away. Emailed pics of the dash LED blanking out to Kinetic Playground in Tulsa (now out of business since Donnie retired). I was an intermediate failure so Donnie put in the claim and a couple months later he called and said to bring the bike in at my convenience for the new dash that was delivered to him. Second on a Stelvio blowing out the exhaust gasket. Again took a pic of the remains and Donnie gave me one out of stock the next time I was by there. I had bought a Kawasaki part locally and already had it installed, so I wasn't in a hurry. Both were known issues.
The last one was this spring on my new Griso. Clutch master cylinder was slowly leaking pressure. A real pain in stop and go traffic where you need to hold the clutch and creep forward. First Guzzi asked new local dealer, Motiv Cycle Works, to flush it and see if that fixed it. Helped for a few rides then started leaking off again. Called dealer and about 5 or 6 weeks he got a new master cylinder from the factory and put it in a day later. Seems to work properly now.
Nothing happened real fast with getting parts from Italy, but decisions seemed to be made in a reasonable amount of time. Of course both dealers impressed me as good guys that really care about their customers.
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I’m new to this thread.
What has your bike done ?
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I thought I'd trow this out there, lots of Piaggio employees read these public forums. And it does make a difference in how the Tech Rep from your area works with your shop. I have 1st hand experience working with these same individuals. I have to say they do their job, jf you give them crap you will not get very much help. They know the problem & the fix. Every claim is a different. I retired right about same time there were 4-5 motor swaps at the shop here.
If you have crank end play and can't adjust the clutch, they'll see it.
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This and many similar stories have over time become an object lesson to me, and why I generally choose to pay less for a low mileage used bike that has no warranty, and select a bike that does not need a dealer.
Warranties are to me like paying extra for a problem, not a solution. It is much less stress and hassle for me to deal with repairing a motorcycle than being firm but calm with people I'd rather not know, following up, elevating at the right moment, 'working with' :rolleyes: the manufacturer rep. and all the other Popular Psychology crappola that are part of what I do to make a living, but try to avoid when away from work.
I buy things with money and take them home directly after buying them, never to return. I don't buy weak promises that need to be extracted later from less than reputable organizations - which in 2019, in the era of the MBA, is virtually all of them.
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I buy things with money, and take them home directly after buying them, never to return. I don't buy weak promises that need to be extracted later from less than reputable organizations - which in 2019, in the era of the MBA, is virtually all of them.
Now that I've read it, that's a pretty good philosophy. I've had very few good experiences with warranties.
My last new bike, I paid ahead on two items - One was "prepaid service" for the first 6 major services on the bike, which is a complex shim-under-bucket water-cooled triple. This has been working out well, and if I keep the bike for 60,000+ miles (which I plan to do), it will have been a bargain.
The other was a "road damage warranty" for the tires, which proposes to pay for a new tire if one goes flat due to a road hazard. I won't do that again, since the "uh, a few privisos, some quid-pro-quos" add up to a hassle that makes it almost impossible to get paid (as I've found out).
But your "buy it slightly used and forget about warranties" is a good one, especially since a bike with a few miles on it is less likely to puke up a surprise for you .... !!
Lannis
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I also needed a warranty repair on my Guzzi with less than 1000 miles. The rest of my issue is off topic but it relates to buy slightly used and forget warranty.
Guzzi approved my warranty repair within 2 weeks, but dealership requires almost $200 extra from me to do the repair because Guzzi does not pay them enough for labor on this repair.
Apparently getting Guzzi to cover required cost of repair requires dealer or customer to "fight" with Guzzi to get proper warranty coverage.
I didn't purchase the bike from this dealer, and I did the break in service (930 miles) myself so dealer does not want to fight for me.
I suppose I sympathize with the dealer. I am their worst case customer; now they shouldn't have to lose money on my warranty repair. And dealership did nothing to create the bike's problem. It was caused by improper assembly at the manufacturer. Manufacturer is trying to save $200; that's more important to manufacturer than customer satisfaction on a defective bike with less than 1000 miles.
So the bike is really not the problem. The warranty is the problem. Yeah, I wish I got a used, out of warranty bike instead.
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Now that I've read it, that's a pretty good philosophy. I've had very few good experiences with warranties.
My last new bike, I paid ahead on two items - One was "prepaid service" for the first 6 major services on the bike, which is a complex shim-under-bucket water-cooled triple. This has been working out well, and if I keep the bike for 60,000+ miles (which I plan to do), it will have been a bargain.
The other was a "road damage warranty" for the tires, which proposes to pay for a new tire if one goes flat due to a road hazard. I won't do that again, since the "uh, a few privisos, some quid-pro-quos" add up to a hassle that makes it almost impossible to get paid (as I've found out).
But your "buy it slightly used and forget about warranties" is a good one, especially since a bike with a few miles on it is less likely to puke up a surprise for you .... !!
Lannis
When it is a cold sunny day I definitely miss the Trophy SE. Best factory suspsended bike I ever owned. But yeah, pulling all those plastics off to do anything was such a PITA.
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Coming from the new car world this is crazy.. Its normally right away, and some times a phone call to confirm. Worst case is a week to get a rep to look at it. I don't see why it would take more then a week or so. I mean, is it broke? yes... Is there damage to the part not caused by part failure?.. Yes or no.. If its a gray area, we need a rep to look at it.. IMHO anything short of that is just falling down on the job... Granted this is not FIXING the issue..... labor, parts, skill etc can effect that greatly... but you should know one way or the other on coverage pretty quickly. Again... Im coming from the car world, and understand its a bigger pond... but still
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I never had to "get firm" or anything. Maybe not quick fast decision, but every time was professional.
I have to do warranty investigation as part of my job. I think I understand how the process works.
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I was without my bike for 6 or 7 weeks at about 5k miles. The transmission ate a bearing or two. I had brought it in for a couple other issues under warranty, dash, intermittent cranking, and weeping throttle body.
MPH in Houston took care of everything. My only complaint is they couldn't loan me a bike to get back home as I was out of state. Mike did get me to the bus depot, so it was good.
I would say it depends on the dealer, and what the issues are. My impression was MPH wasn't happy about what happened, it shouldn't have happened, and I got the impression it was an assembly issue. However, haven't had any issues with the tranny since so its all good.
Old Head
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Guzzi approved my warranty repair within 2 weeks, but dealership requires almost $200 extra from me to do the repair because Guzzi does not pay them enough for labor on this repair.
Apparently getting Guzzi to cover required cost of repair requires dealer or customer to "fight" with Guzzi to get proper warranty coverage.
I didn't purchase the bike from this dealer, and I did the break in service (930 miles) myself so dealer does not want to fight for me.
Warranty work is a necessary evil, and it's truly a racket that pinches the dealer.
First of all, warranty repair work is paid at flat rate. There's a book that specifies how much shop time will be paid for a given job. These times are frequently unrealistic and based upon ideal conditions, with no consideration for cleaning, broken bolts, incidental wiring repairs, and all of the little stuff that is frequently but not always necessary. A complex repair may require "stacking" several separate operations in order to have any hope of approaching an accurate labor payout. A skilled service manager who "knows the book" may be able to do this, but the manufacturer certainly isn't going to remind him if he misses something. And if he screws up and "overstacks", he risks increased scrutiny of his claims at best, rejection at worst.
Furthermore, the manufacturer may or may not pay labor at the shop's quoted rate. This can depend on a lot of things, like whether or not the shop has the full complement of special (expensive) tools, been to all of the (expensive) training schools, purchases the requisite amount of parts and accessories, software packages, etc. If not, then warranty work may be paid at something less - maybe 75% of the shop's quoted labor rate.
Any parts used in a warranty repair are paid at dealer cost, so there's no profit at all there.
And to top it all off, "payment" frequently takes the form of a credit to the dealer's parts account. maybe accessories too, but seldom liquid funds.
Mind you, the situation described here wasn't with a small, struggling manufacturer of limited means. I won't name them but they're a successful, established player with a commanding market share in their powersports segment.
All that said, I never surcharged a customer for warranty work. If a unit bought somewhere else was brought to me at the height of the season that appeared to be a warranty black hole, I would either suggest they take it to their selling dealer or offer to take it on at a slower time.
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Warranty work is a necessary evil, and it's truly a racket that pinches the dealer.
First of all, warranty repair work is paid at flat rate. There's a book that specifies how much shop time will be paid for a given job. These times are frequently unrealistic and based upon ideal conditions, with no consideration for cleaning, broken bolts, incidental wiring repairs, and all of the little stuff that is frequently but not always necessary. A complex repair may require "stacking" several separate operations in order to have any hope of approaching an accurate labor payout. A skilled service manager who "knows the book" may be able to do this, but the manufacturer certainly isn't going to remind him if he misses something. And if he screws up and "overstacks", he risks increased scrutiny of his claims at best, rejection at worst.
Furthermore, the manufacturer may or may not pay labor at the shop's quoted rate. This can depend on a lot of things, like whether or not the shop has the full complement of special (expensive) tools, been to all of the (expensive) training schools, purchases the requisite amount of parts and accessories, software packages, etc. If not, then warranty work may be paid at something less - maybe 75% of the shop's quoted labor rate.
Any parts used in a warranty repair are paid at dealer cost, so there's no profit at all there.
And to top it all off, "payment" frequently takes the form of a credit to the dealer's parts account. maybe accessories too, but seldom liquid funds.
Mind you, the situation described here wasn't with a small, struggling manufacturer of limited means. I won't name them but they're a successful, established player with a commanding market share in their powersports segment.
All that said, I never surcharged a customer for warranty work. If a unit bought somewhere else was brought to me at the height of the season that appeared to be a warranty black hole, I would either suggest they take it to their selling dealer or offer to take it on at a slower time.
...and this my friends is why the name "stealership" was coined. The other dealer charging for a covered warranty, and this one not wanting to bother with the work if you didn't buy it there.
Some of us relocate with our jobs. Sometimes our selling dealer closed down.
I've had dealers telling me that I had to leave a rideable bike with them while they ordered parts because I might not come back. I told them that the bike was my transportation to work so unless they were getting me a loaner bike I was not leaving the bike. They finally agreed to go ahead and order the parts.
Car dealerships have come a long way but it seems like a lot of motorcycle dealerships are stuck back in the 50s with the games they play.
When I bought my recent Royal Enfield I payed the MSRP of the bike. No delivery, no assembly, no doc fee, nothing extra. Some guys on the forums are reporting paying an additional $1500 in dealer profit to buy their bikes. So, why can this dealer survive for 40 years selling bikes at a fair price while other dealers struggle when they add on so many fees?
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Not knocking any brand or dealer, just an assessment of these type of dealer issues.
I think, like many different types of business, smaller dealerships, with brands like Moto Guzzi, gets little to no backing from the manufacture. Therefore they must rely on their own financial position to continue doing business and simply cannot afford to do much warranty work, waiting for their money from the manufacturers to reimburse them. I realized its bad for the dealer as well as buyers that try and support the brand. This is especially difficult when the warranty work is on a bike they didn’t sale. In this situation I would go to the dealer with my hat in my hand and explain my situation to the owner or service manager and acknowledge an understanding of his situation and ask for help in anyway possible. Most of the time this comment sense works well in most situations because these folks love motorcycles or they wouldn’t be in that business. JMHO:)
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Ncdan, agree. When I had to take my Griso to a different dealer than I bought the bike from, I made sure I spent a little money with the new guy on some other stuff. Hoping he succeeds, and that is more up to us customers than we want to admit.
We complain about lack of dealers but are we supporting them with our dollars?
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Ncdan, agree. When I had to take my Griso to a different dealer than I bought the bike from, I made sure I spent a little money with the new guy on some other stuff. Hoping he succeeds, and that is more up to us customers than we want to admit.
We complain about lack of dealers but are we supporting them with our dollars?
How a person runs their business has more to do with their success then us being careless with our money. I know businesses there negotiations are involved have to have a certain percentage of dumb customers but when business A is trying to charge 20% in dealer profit, has everything overpriced to be competitive, and doesn't make sure their employees know the product and customer relations, then they deserve to go out of business.
Dealers that advertise a great price and have all these hidden fees that you only find out about when you are in with the paperwork guys deserve to go out of business.
The above examples are businesses that don't care about repeat customers and get a bad reputation. Some dealers in my area will never sell me a new bike. I might buy a used one from them if they don't try and tell me they went through the bike to make it safe and the brake fluid is rootbeer colored, which I have seen.
It is great to support a good dealer. Stupid to support a bad one.
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I purchased my 03 Rosso Corsa from the long gone dealer in Wichita and when I had a warranty claim on the bike they were less than interested in helping me out, so I called MPH in Houston and after a few tries they got my claim approved. Shame they are no longer a dealer as they did the same thing for me on the new Norge I purchased from them in 07.
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Ncdan, agree. When I had to take my Griso to a different dealer than I bought the bike from, I made sure I spent a little money with the new guy on some other stuff. Hoping he succeeds, and that is more up to us customers than we want to admit.
We complain about lack of dealers but are we supporting them with our dollars?
Exactly what I did.
I was honest about the circumstances of why I bought my bike where. I explained they were the closest Moto Guzzi dealer to where I lived and I planned on being a new long term customer. In retrospect, I should have been more dishonest with them about doing my own breakin maintenance at 930 miles. I could have said I bought the bike with that service already done or paid for. I also should have lied to them, instead of mentioning I purchased an Aegis 84 month extended warranty. The service manager told me that is an even bigger problem for them than the original factory warranty work. So they are going to ask me to supplement payment on that extended warranty work as well.
My bike purchase was new, old stock 2017 Stelvio, and this dealer had sold all 3 of theirs they got as old new stock with discount, did not have any more, and could no longer get that new old stock from Moto Guzzi, so at the time of my actual purchase, buying there was not even an option. I didn't make that clear to them unfortunately.
I spent $80 in their parts department, and let the service dept know about it. This was all before they decided their required labor time was going to be TWICE what Moto Guzzi allotted for this warranty work. I couldn't have been more respectful and empathetic to their situation when I was there.
Then the dealership decided to f*** me over. When I asked, the service manager said it was common for them to ask for customer to supplement payment for warranty work. No other dealership I spoke to about this scenario said they did that or heard of it being "common" anywhere else. Other dealerships I spoke to said they just do the work, sometimes take a loss on warranty labor, make money elsewhere, but try to take care of the customer, no matter where the bike as purchased.
The funny thing is right now I am torn between sympathy for the dealership, they need to make money, I know motorcycle shops are not gold mines like McDonalds franchises, and the other side, that the dealership is GREEDY, choosing less than $200 over taking care of a new, potential long term customer.
I can drive an extra half hour and get the warranty work done in the normal manner at a different Moto Guzzi dealer. I can never step foot inside the local dealership after I pick up my parts order that just came in. I can badmouth the name of the "greedy" local dealer all over the internet. But mostly I wish I had purchased a used bike without warranty.
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If no one ever purchases a *new* motorbike , why would the manufacturer bother building any new motorbikes ?
Do your homework , easy enough to do , then if there is an issue make certain that you have documentation , and then attempt to remain calm . We have had this discussion before , Moto Guzzi is a very small company , and while Piaggio may own them now , they are still a boutique builder of motorbikes , it is unreasonable to expect Moto Guzzi to behave like Honda or the MoCo , and also slightly unrealistic to expect a small dealer to behave like a dealership that moves 1,000 units a year . We inhabit a world of cookie cutter products , there is a reason why someone chooses to buy a product as unusual as a Moto Guzzi . Like the person who moves to a very rural area to get away from the city and then complains because the small town nearby doesn't have all of the conveniences of the large town they escaped from , it seems a bit disingenuous at best .
Dusty
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Depends on how long Italy takes to get back to your dealer, and how motivated your dealer is to work the issue for you.
I'm guessing from your tone and reference to a locked post this is the bike with the clutch/flywheel issue. If the bike is under warranty, and not messed with should be a no brainer. Just gotta be patient. I'd have long trailered the bike to the dealer and left with them to sort out.
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If no one ever purchases a *new* motorbike , why would the manufacturer bother building any new motorbikes ?
Do your homework , easy enough to do , then if there is an issue make certain that you have documentation , and then attempt to remain calm . We have had this discussion before , Moto Guzzi is a very small company , and while Piaggio may own them now , they are still a boutique builder of motorbikes , it is unreasonable to expect Moto Guzzi to behave like Honda or the MoCo , and also slightly unrealistic to expect a small dealer to behave like a dealership that moves 1,000 units a year . We inhabit a world of cookie cutter products , there is a reason why someone chooses to buy a product as unusual as a Moto Guzzi . Like the person who moves to a very rural area to get away from the city and then complains because the small town nearby doesn't have all of the conveniences of the large town they escaped from , it seems a bit disingenuous at best .
Dusty
I probably would not have bought the V7III Carbon new if I had to go to a dealer who is barely keeping his head above water. I will also never buy a bike without a test ride.
Fortunately, where I did buy my V7, (even though it is 1 1/2 hours away) is a huge family owned multi-brand dealer that can afford to stock and sell Moto Guzzi. Moto Guzzi offers something unique with their air cooled shaft drive configuration in a standard motorcycle. If they moved to liquid cooling and chain drive then they would be directly competing with the Japanese.
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A few months after I took delivery of my 1200 Sport from a dealer in New Hampshire in 2009, and rode it back to hometown Cleveland Ohio, I began having issues with the fuel tank blistering around the plastic chrome 'wings' on both sides of the tank. (Note: I think only a few dealers used the promotional pricing to unload stock .... there wasn't one near Cleveland, or I would have purchased it here.)
I attempted to obtain a warranty replacement by working with a now defunct Guzzi/Yamaha shop. After several weeks and several phone calls, I stopped by their shop again, and was told, 'we're getting no response from Guzzi re your warranty claim. Here's their NYC number. See if you can get any results.' I contacted Guzzi USA and though I talked with a Guzzi employee, nothing ever came of it. "Oh, Bob, nothing yet. I will call you next Tuesday." Much like Wimpy's hamburgers "..... I will gladly pay you Tuesday ...." Never happened.
I posted factual comments on WG, that didn't take swipes at the dealer or Guzzi, until finally, one of Guzzi's better/best dealers contacted me and asked if I was capable of installing the tank if he could get it for me. Answer "yes." I volunteered to pay shipping and within a week or so, it arrived. This dealer commented " I hate to see any customer treated this way."
Bob
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How a person runs their business has more to do with their success then us being careless with our money. I know businesses there negotiations are involved have to have a certain percentage of dumb customers but when business A is trying to charge 20% in dealer profit, has everything overpriced to be competitive, and doesn't make sure their employees know the product and customer relations, then they deserve to go out of business.
Dealers that advertise a great price and have all these hidden fees that you only find out about when you are in with the paperwork guys deserve to go out of business.
The above examples are businesses that don't care about repeat customers and get a bad reputation. Some dealers in my area will never sell me a new bike. I might buy a used one from them if they don't try and tell me they went through the bike to make it safe and the brake fluid is rootbeer colored, which I have seen.
It is great to support a good dealer. Stupid to support a bad one.
Business model and customer service practices matter. I embrace the free market.... Have a Guzzi Dealer 9 miles from me in Arlington, but wont spend a $$ there. Their shop is a disaster, and they are predators selling to dumb yuppies. They are a mess and play the game with $5000 off MSRP advertised, and want to give you a 'customer credit for parts and service' as the discount..... ummm.... NO THANKS
Next closest is 60 miles, in Richmond. They have a great service dept & customer rep, but are pricey. The next closest is 180 miles away, Accident Maryland. I am about to buy my second bike from them. No games, decent prices, and $100 doc fee. Haven't needed warranty work, but if I did I'd go to the dealer in Richmond. The Stornello is the first new bike I have ever purchased, the MGX will be #2 and likely last. I likely wont need warranty work, but if I do I'll suck it up and make the drive.
I do 99% of my own work, always have, but I understand that is not the case for some. IMO, if you own a Guzzi, you better be able to wrench..... Forums like this, and Griso Ghetto provide nearly every answer I need. Add sources like AF1, Cadre, Harpers, and even some dealers like Hamlin make getting parts easy. This is a great community.....
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Riding a Moto Guzzi requires a commitment not needed to own most other brands , it has been that way for years .
Dusty
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Next closest is 60 miles, in Richmond. They have a great service dept & customer rep, but are pricey.
The "pricey" bit, I realize, is necessary from a "Guzzi Content" standpoint ... :wink:
... but one thing about dealing with Moto Richmond - the deal won't backfire on you.
Like good tools, sometimes the most expensive one is the cheapest one.
Lannis
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Riding a Moto Guzzi requires a commitment not needed to own most other brands , it has been that way for years .
Dusty
That sums it all up quite nicely.
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Riding a Moto Guzzi requires a commitment not needed to own most other brands , it has been that way for years .
Dusty
Which is why, if wasn't a multi bike owner, and trailer the Guzzi outside my local riding area, I wouldn't own one. I sure do love it though and it makes a great subject for my photos. :thumb:
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Which is why, if wasn't a multi bike owner, and trailer the Guzzi outside my local riding area, I wouldn't own one. I sure do love it though and it makes a great subject for my photos. :thumb:
One way to see this , then we have riders like Karl Werth and Ken Hand who have a million Guzzi miles . The close knit community that is always willing to help is more important than any dealer network .
Dusty
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If no one ever purchases a *new* motorbike , why would the manufacturer bother building any new motorbikes ?
Do your homework , easy enough to do , then if there is an issue make certain that you have documentation , and then attempt to remain calm . We have had this discussion before , Moto Guzzi is a very small company , and while Piaggio may own them now , they are still a boutique builder of motorbikes , it is unreasonable to expect Moto Guzzi to behave like Honda or the MoCo , and also slightly unrealistic to expect a small dealer to behave like a dealership that moves 1,000 units a year . We inhabit a world of cookie cutter products , there is a reason why someone chooses to buy a product as unusual as a Moto Guzzi . Like the person who moves to a very rural area to get away from the city and then complains because the small town nearby doesn't have all of the conveniences of the large town they escaped from , it seems a bit disingenuous at best .
Dusty
👍
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If no one ever purchases a *new* motorbike , why would the manufacturer bother building any new motorbikes ?
Do your homework , easy enough to do , then if there is an issue make certain that you have documentation , and then attempt to remain calm . We have had this discussion before , Moto Guzzi is a very small company , and while Piaggio may own them now , they are still a boutique builder of motorbikes , it is unreasonable to expect Moto Guzzi to behave like Honda or the MoCo , and also slightly unrealistic to expect a small dealer to behave like a dealership that moves 1,000 units a year . We inhabit a world of cookie cutter products , there is a reason why someone chooses to buy a product as unusual as a Moto Guzzi . Like the person who moves to a very rural area to get away from the city and then complains because the small town nearby doesn't have all of the conveniences of the large town they escaped from , it seems a bit disingenuous at best .
Dusty
Very few people would buy new bikes if they couldn't someday find a used bike buyer. Some of them, for reasons that don't concern me in the least except that I benefit, sell their bikes after putting only 5 or 10,000 miles on them. Funnily enough I find the new bike buyer, now seller, at that point likes the idea of somebody showing up with 100% cash on hand, especially if he's selling a bike the average buyer thinks is 'weird'. He might well use that cash as the down payment on the next new bike that catches his eye.
Re expectations of dealers: after I buy a bike, new or used, it rarely returns to any dealer as long as I own it. My expectations for the dealer of a 'non-cookie cutter' bike are simple - meaning no expectations at all. In fact I'm not interested in buying any bike that's designed with ties to dealer service, and one attraction to older Guzzis was that they had to be something the owner could maintain, because the dealers were few and far between. That's exactly the kind of bike I look to buy even now. I think on that basis I'm a very low dealer demand kind of guy. :wink:
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Speaking from someone who dealt with Piaggio quite a bit they are like every other manufacturer I ever dealt with as a service manager. If you provide the proper documentation to them then they will cover the warranty. It's not a matter of "waiting to hear from Italy", the employees in the US can make the call. It really depends on the report the dealer has with their tech rep. If you cover your bases and provide the necessary documentation and can explain what happened and why they should cover it then they will. A shitty dealer is a shitty dealer no matter what the brand.
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I really like the design, history, and performance of the Guzzi’s I have owned. I am happy I have had the experience of owning them. However, I have to constantly resist my attraction to these sexy machines. I despise the fact that you practically have to kiss the dealers and piaggio’ a$$ to get repairs you are entitled to. The cost of any manufacturers warranty is built into its pricing. How this company treats its customers and their dealers is a disgrace. To take so long to make a decision on whether the all mighty piaggio is going to cover something they are legally bound to cover is such bad business.
All this talk about having to document all the chain of events to get a bike repaired that is under warranty is insanity in 2019. Every time I read one of these threads it saves me form spending my good money on a bad company. This literally leaves me shaking my head.
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I really like the design, history, and performance of the Guzzi’s I have owned. I am happy I have had the experience of owning them. However, I have to constantly resist my attraction to these sexy machines. I despise the fact that you practically have to kiss the dealers and piaggio’ a$$ to get repairs you are entitled to. The cost of any manufacturers warranty is built into its pricing. How this company treats its customers and their dealers is a disgrace. To take so long to make a decision on whether the all mighty piaggio is going to cover something they are legally bound to cover is such bad business.
All this talk about having to document all the chain of events to get a bike repaired that is under warranty is insanity in 2019. Every time I read one of these threads it saves me form spending my good money on a bad company. This literally leaves me shaking my head.
Here is a quick comparison to Royal Enfield who is growing like crazy. I guy on the forum said his Himalayan was popping out of 5th gear. He brought it to the dealer and they contacted Royal Enfield who decided to send a new engine and the guy was back on the road in a week. The story is that Royal Enfield wanted to disassemble the engine themselves to determine the root cause.
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I get what you're saying. I'm not going to tell someone else's story and use their name without permission, but I know two highly respected former Moto Guzzi senior mechanics and service advisors who literally retired and quit the business because of the constant headache and fights they had with piaggio over warranty coverage. Most of their dealings were with the American headquarters, but several huge headaches for major issues were sourced in Italy.
When I bought my Norge in 2016, it was still covered under the factory warranty. I quickly realized that the fuel gauge did not go below 1/4. Evidently this was a known problem. MI took care of me, and swapped out the fuel pump and fuel level sender unit from their local stock and put in the warranty request to Piaggio. When I got back from my deployment in late 2017, I swung back by MI. in talking with the mechanic that did my work, they were still waiting for the warranty replacement of the part from piaggio. When I expressed incredulity he simply responded, welcome to our world this is normal business for them.
anecdotal evidence is exactly that, you can find examples for any position you choose to take oh, but there is a repeated and regular history and narrative that piaggio is horrible about warranty service. heck, I'm still waiting for the spark plug cover replacement from my V7, which blew off on the first ride. When I took delivery, I noticed that the cover was not tight and mentioned it to the salesman. we checked two or three other bikes on the floor with three or four being loose as well so we thought it was okay. so needless to say I wasn't surprised when I got back from my first ride to find it missing.
The dealer was great, and immediately put in a warranty claim, but piaggio has yet to replace the part. I just decided to spend $15 from af1 and call it done if it ever does come in, I'll have an extra.
I don't ride a known Moto Guzzi motorcycles because I love the parent company, I love the machines and I'm willing to take the risks that come with the benefits.
As others have said the Guzzi community is one of the many things that makes owning these motorcycles such a joy.
Speaking from someone who dealt with Piaggio quite a bit they are like every other manufacturer I ever dealt with as a service manager. If you provide the proper documentation to them then they will cover the warranty. It's not a matter of "waiting to hear from Italy", the employees in the US can make the call. It really depends on the report the dealer has with their tech rep. If you cover your bases and provide the necessary documentation and can explain what happened and why they should cover it then they will. A shitty dealer is a shitty dealer no matter what the brand.
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I really like the design, history, and performance of the Guzzi’s I have owned. I am happy I have had the experience of owning them. However, I have to constantly resist my attraction to these sexy machines. I despise the fact that you practically have to kiss the dealers and piaggio’ a$$ to get repairs you are entitled to. The cost of any manufacturers warranty is built into its pricing. How this company treats its customers and their dealers is a disgrace. To take so long to make a decision on whether the all mighty piaggio is going to cover something they are legally bound to cover is such bad business.
All this talk about having to document all the chain of events to get a bike repaired that is under warranty is insanity in 2019. Every time I read one of these threads it saves me form spending my good money on a bad company. This literally leaves me shaking my head.
Like I stated above, I've had several warranty claims on 3 new Guzzi's I've bought in the last 9 years and none were any problem. I documented what happened, photos were helpful with the dash, and the only real delay was getting parts from Italy that were not stocked in the US. My last one I was concerned about because I bought the bike from a dealer that closed shop a few months after the purchase. Evidently, he did all the paperwork right because it went through smooth with the new dealer. And none of the warranty cost me anything other than time(Donnie at Kinetic Playground even filled my almost empty gas tank because I had to ride it 100 miles to his shop). I can't complain at all about the warranty service I have received.
I will say the 3 Yamahas and 1 Honda I have purchased in the last 5 years needed abosolutely zero warranty work done to them. :evil:
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Riding a Moto Guzzi requires a commitment not needed to own most other brands , it has been that way for years .
Dusty
How very sad for a company as big as Piaggio to still offer such poor warranty work to so many of their customers. Yea, I know, maybe a great dealer can help you. Too few current and potential Moto Guzzi customers have that option because there are so few great dealers.
What I get from reading this thread is that, no one in Italy or in the US that can actually make a decision has learned much in the last 40+ years regarding customer relations.
I've read that Piaggio is selling a decent amount (in Moto Guzzi terms) of V7 variants to newer owners to the brand. Burn them once and you'll likely not get a second chance. Burn an older, experienced Guzzi owner and well, they sort of expect it.
I agree with the sentiment that buying a used Moto Guzzi without the pretense of even having a factory warranty may be the better route to take. Sort of like people who buy a Smart car with the pretense of 'safety'. I'd rather ride my motorcycle having full knowledge there isn't any pretense of safety.
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When talking to my dealer (yes, he's far away) about this very issue, it was well known to him as he's done several. He explained Guzzi determined it's easier and more cost effective to just ship an entire new engine and 4 hours of labor to install. They do this to expedite the process to avoid Lemon Law buy backs. But as usual, you can lead a horse to water...
It's worth the drive to do business with a reputable and passionate dealer.
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Not trying to jump on the wagon to trash any dealer or the brand but there comes a time when somebody or a company must be called out by we the people. I attempted to do business with the only dealership close to me last year, which turned out bad, and they pointed out a 2017 1400 tourer, red with black bags. When I inquired as why the black bags he told me it had been shipped with the wrong bags and over a year later he still was unable to get any aspect of the factory chain of command to address the issue. You know there is a time to call a spade a spade and this company has serious issues. However, I still love my 1400 tourer. It’s like being married to a cheating wife:(
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It’s like being married to a cheating wife:(
I've always said, "as long as she brings home a new trick"!
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I've always said, "as long as she brings home a new trick"!
😂😂😂😂
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Since I simply get snarky comments that I have a bad additude (because I guess I should be thankful I have a useless bike sitting here) from people on this site and then moderators lock threads I am still waiting for an answer to what I feel is a pretty simple question. How long would you expect to wait for Guzzi to make a decision on what they are doing for warranty for a bike that is not usable (and has less than 1000 miles)?
I'd say you deserve better from Guzzi and perhaps from members of the forum that have to put up with their own issues.
Restoring an old bike might be a joy, maintaining a middle aged bike can be a frustrating annoyance, and trying to service a new bike that you're paying for and expecting to ride can be just a PIA.
Best of luck.
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Coming from a former powersports service manager.
It's absolutely vital to have the dealership on your side - the service manager in particular. They are the ones who will go to bat for you with Piaggio. Direct any ire at Piaggio warranty - not the product and not the dealership. State your case. Elicit empathy at a minimum, sympathy if possible.
Remember, the dealership doesn't want to damage their relationship with Piaggio for your sake. They have to work with them long after you've gone on your way.
Manufacturers are often like insurance companies - they'll look for any reason to deny a claim because they're utterly paranoid of being taken advantage of - by dealers and customers alike. Whether or not you think that's justified or rational, it's a fact.
If I had a good rapport with a customer and there was a legitimate grievance, I was happy to be a tenacious advocate on their behalf. If it was just someone who had a breakdown when they thought they shouldn't have? Well, life isn't always fair.
If someone starts throwing lawyer terms around, the conversation will get very quiet indeed.
Reading this gives no one a reason to purchase a new Guzzi or Aprilia.
Perhaps not your intent, it does appear that customers are for convenience of the dealer and Piaggio and not the other way around.
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Coming from the new car world this is crazy.. Its normally right away, and some times a phone call to confirm. Worst case is a week to get a rep to look at it. I don't see why it would take more then a week or so. I mean, is it broke? yes... Is there damage to the part not caused by part failure?.. Yes or no.. If its a gray area, we need a rep to look at it.. IMHO anything short of that is just falling down on the job... Granted this is not FIXING the issue..... labor, parts, skill etc can effect that greatly... but you should know one way or the other on coverage pretty quickly. Again... Im coming from the car world, and understand its a bigger pond... but still
speaking of new cars, my younger brother has '16 Corvette with 8 speed auto trans....as do Camaro owners, Cadillac owners...... The first fix is a tranny fluid flush, then the converter, then dunnno what............. so far my brother couldn't even get the flush.
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How long should one wait for the OP to update this thread?
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OK fellas , cool it with the snark .
Dusty
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In my experience when I was a service agent I very rarely had an issue when sticking in a warranty claim and in most cases I'd get approval either the same day or, with things like rollerisation claims, within a couple of days, as long as it wasn't August! Getting the parts was another matter, that could take a while but rarely more than three/four weeks at most. That could be frustrating but by the time I was knocking over rollerisations at one or two a week I'd started having kits 'On the shelf' which helped with down time.
Nowadays the situation is much, much worse. Including people getting knocked back on rollerisations because the damage 'Isn't bad enough yet!' Even if they meet all the criteria. I hate to think what will happen if the V85 has any issues? Luckily that is now an SEP.
Pete
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Quote from: OldMojo on April 26, 2019, 06:42:06 PM
Coming from a former powersports service manager.
It's absolutely vital to have the dealership on your side - the service manager in particular. They are the ones who will go to bat for you with Piaggio. Direct any ire at Piaggio warranty - not the product and not the dealership. State your case. Elicit empathy at a minimum, sympathy if possible.
Remember, the dealership doesn't want to damage their relationship with Piaggio for your sake. They have to work with them long after you've gone on your way.
Manufacturers are often like insurance companies - they'll look for any reason to deny a claim because they're utterly paranoid of being taken advantage of - by dealers and customers alike. Whether or not you think that's justified or rational, it's a fact.
If I had a good rapport with a customer and there was a legitimate grievance, I was happy to be a tenacious advocate on their behalf. If it was just someone who had a breakdown when they thought they shouldn't have? Well, life isn't always fair.
If someone starts throwing lawyer terms around, the conversation will get very quiet indeed.
Reading this gives no one a reason to purchase a new Guzzi or Aprilia.
Perhaps not your intent, it does appear that customers are for convenience of the dealer and Piaggio and not the other way around.
I think OM made a great post that factually details the reality of the situation not only with Piaggio, but with any brand. The only difference is some brands may be more responsive or forgiving at the corporate level.
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Reading this gives no one a reason to purchase a new Guzzi or Aprilia.
Perhaps not your intent, it does appear that customers are for convenience of the dealer and Piaggio and not the other way around.
I think OM made a great post that factually details the reality of the situation not only with Piaggio, but with any brand. The only difference is some brands may be more responsive or forgiving at the corporate level.
Every multi-brand dealership I have spoken to, and I have spoken to quite a few in my travels, have stated that Kawasaki is the easiest to work with on a warranty claim. If they only made something new that I would want to buy. I've already been through almost all the bikes they are currently offering with the exception of the W800.
Kawasaki even reimbursed me for a repair I paid for at a Honda dealer while on a trip.
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Every multi-brand dealership I have spoken to, and I have spoken to quite a few in my travels, have stated that Kawasaki is the easiest to work with on a warranty claim. If they only made something new that I would want to buy. I've already been through almost all the bikes they are currently offering with the exception of the W800.
Kawasaki even reimbursed me for a repair I paid for at a Honda dealer while on a trip.
I think it’s a possibility that the manufacturer of our beloved Moto Guzzi barely keeps the doors at the factory open from one week to the next and that’s the reason the consumer can’t get warranty work done. There is really no other reasonable explanation as the way they do things is the beginning of the ending of any company.
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I think it’s a possibility that the manufacturer of our beloved Moto Guzzi barely keeps the doors at the factory open from one week to the next and that’s the reason the consumer can’t get warranty work done. There is really no other reasonable explanation as the way they do things is the beginning of the ending of any company.
And no doubt subsidized by the government where they won't let them fail. Been nearly 100 years.
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Does your state have a lemon law? I would be looking for my money back if they can't put in on the road fast, it's a brand new bike, right?
Here is the thing about Lemon Laws, many of them do not cover motorcycles.
According to the Attorney General site for PA, "Commercial vehicles, motorcycles, motor homes, and off-road vehicles are not covered by the law."
I think I've read somewhere that there is another route to get protection similar to the lemon law but can't remember what act covers it or what the specifications are.
I know that when I decided to pursue lemon law actions on a car that the process too a few months. I was told there were 3 possible outcomes; the manufacturer would purchase my car back from me, the manufacturer would offer me some money and let me keep my car, or nothing would happen.
The manufacturer initially offered me a low amount, which I refused. Then they came back with a higher amount which I decided to accept (I kept the car as well). As soon as I got my check I traded my car in on something else as, even though it was reportedly fixed, I no longer trusted it. In my case the ineptitude of the dealer doing the warranty work was a concern, they actually caused more damage every time it went in to them.
FWIW, I contacted an attorney to handle my case as I was not confident that I knew what I was doing. The attorney charged me a flat rate which was exactly equal to the first offer I received from the manufacturer, hence why I didn't take it. In the end the amount I received made me whole when added to what I received on my trade. I didn't get new car value back but I felt I was able to purchase something equal with no, or very little, personal outlay.
I should also mention, as soon as I contacted the attorney I was advised not to discuss the suit. In addition, once we settled I was required to sign a non-disclosure agreement, hence the vagueness above.
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How long should one wait for the OP to update this thread?
Just as soon as Piaggio lets me know what they plan to do about the pos bike they built with a thrust washer issue, that even though they knew they had an issue didn't pull the bike from a showroom floor nor did they have the wisdom to keep replacement engines stateside. I will never again buy anything made by Piaggio and have now diversified my stock holdings of Piagf. One week out and I am now riding a bike that is now making one horrible racket from the bottom end.
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Just as soon as Piaggio lets me know what they plan to do about the pos bike they built with a thrust washer issue, that even though they knew they had an issue didn't pull the bike from a showroom floor nor did they have the wisdom to keep replacement engines stateside. I will never again buy anything made by Piaggio and have now diversified my stock holdings of Piagf. One week out and I am now riding a bike that is now making one horrible racket from the bottom end.
I feel your pain my friend. Just hope for a break.
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Just as soon as Piaggio lets me know what they plan to do about the pos bike they built with a thrust washer issue, that even though they knew they had an issue didn't pull the bike from a showroom floor nor did they have the wisdom to keep replacement engines stateside. I will never again buy anything made by Piaggio and have now diversified my stock holdings of Piagf. One week out and I am now riding a bike that is now making one horrible racket from the bottom end.
You know there is something seriously wrong but you keep riding it? You're bonkers!
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Just as soon as Piaggio lets me know what they plan to do about the pos bike they built with a thrust washer issue, that even though they knew they had an issue didn't pull the bike from a showroom floor nor did they have the wisdom to keep replacement engines stateside. I will never again buy anything made by Piaggio and have now diversified my stock holdings of Piagf. One week out and I am now riding a bike that is now making one horrible racket from the bottom end.
:clock: :popcorn: :weiner:
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No kidding! And think about what you’re doing? You’re tearing them a new one on a public forum, I think y blew it.
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No kidding! And think about what you’re doing? You’re tearing them a new one on a public forum, I think y blew it.
I blew nothing. I'm not the one who build crap, shipped crap, and now isn't providing customer service for said crap. They wold be tearing themselves a new one with their fabulous support. I'm simply bringing my experience with a 700 mile bike to light for others to think about before they lay down their hard earned money.
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You know there is something seriously wrong but you keep riding it? You're bonkers!
Under warranty. Happy to not ride it, if they give me a loaner. Til then I have AAA
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I blew nothing. I'm not the one who build crap, shipped crap, and now isn't providing customer service for said crap. They wold be tearing themselves a new one with their fabulous support. I'm simply bringing my experience with a 700 mile bike to light for others to think about before they lay down their hard earned money.
You are aware of the fact that we already know about this problem , right ? Once again , you aren't helping your cause here .
Dusty
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I blew nothing. I'm not the one who build crap, shipped crap, and now isn't providing customer service for said crap. They wold be tearing themselves a new one with their fabulous support. I'm simply bringing my experience with a 700 mile bike to light for others to think about before they lay down their hard earned money.
Hope you dont throw this attitude WHEN your bike dumps its guts on the side of the road leaving you stranded, or when Guzzi tells you to go packing for causing MORE damage to your bike with a known problem. Your bike should be at the dealer, in their lap to fix. It's unfortunate that you got one of the bad ones, but you did. You can act like a mature man and move forward, or continue to trash and thrash both literally and figuratively like a 5 year old. Come on man!
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I just hope the bike doesn't seize up when you ride and tosses you off. Otherwise, I'd probably feel the same way.
It's pretty easy for someone to say you're overreacting when you bought the bike with your own cash.
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Hope you dont throw this attitude WHEN your bike dumps its guts on the side of the road leaving you stranded, or when Guzzi tells you to go packing for causing MORE damage to your bike with a known problem. Your bike should be at the dealer, in their lap to fix. It's unfortunate that you got one of the bad ones, but you did. You can act like a mature man and move forward, or continue to trash and thrash both literally and figuratively like a 5 year old. Come on man!
Guzzi and the dealer had all the time to tell me not to ride it. I was told the engine needs to be replaced and riding it will not hurt anything that won't be replaced. I could care less about getting a bad one. I care about the insanely poor service Piaggio has when it comes to "known problems" For that I will shout from the mountain top so no one has to go thru what I am being put thru.
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No , we are done with the shouting . Try this tactic on any other brand specific forum and see how long you last . I tried being nice , that hasn't worked , so here we are . Don't start another thread about this , are we clear ?
Dusty
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I never had to try telling the truth on any oher brand. Never had a single warranty issue on any other bike. I won't have to post up anything if Guzzi would do what is right. Would have prefered that but seems that didn't happen.
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I never had to try telling the truth on any oher brand. Never had a single warranty issue on any other bike. I won't have to post up anything if Guzzi would do what is right. Would have prefered that but seems that didn't happen.
We all would prefer that no product ever fail . In the real world that will remain a dream . You have a first world problem that can be resolved , and while it is an inconvenience , there are people dealing with real problems , like the loss of a loved one . Are you understanding here ? Chill , you are coming off like someone who has never had to face a challenge .
Dusty
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I could care less about something failing. It is the lack of solving the problem I take issue with and I truely believe most here would agree that this issue should have been solved long before the bike ever left a dealer showroom floor where it sat for 2 years while Guzzi knew about the issue and had a "range" of vin but your right a bike doesn't really matter when it all comes down to it but how a company treats its customers does. BTW you don't know me, you do not know what I have been thru or the 27 surgeries I had in the past 7 years so why don't you calm yourself down as to me you have been the snarkiest person I've encountered on this site. Maybe you should remember not to judge the path others have taken to get here.
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OK , have we calmed down yet ?
Dusty
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Under warranty. Happy to not ride it, if they give me a loaner. Til then I have AAA
If the crank locks up at the wrong time it could kill you. You know you have a serious problem but you persist in riding the machine? Sorry but cutting off your nose to spite your face is not clever, nor is it 'Teaching them, (Whoever 'They' are?) a lesson, it is simply endangering yourself and other people. Selfish and stupid behaviour.
Pete
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Point of order.
We don't have a definitive "range".
And since we don't know Guzzi's internal practices we also don't know if THEY KNOW for sure which bikes are effected by VIN.
Was only one guy doing the assembly of the motors at that step?
Was he making the mistake on each one?
Is he sleeping with the fishes in Lake Como?
Oh and the Piaggio stock comment, hilarious.
It sucks, I do feel sorry for you having to deal with this BS. I've warned every soul who has approached me asking about new V7's about the potential for this in a II model.
But in life sometimes you get the elevator and sometimes the shaft. When it's the latter I completely understand being angry and wanting to fight for what's right. But at some point you're pissing in wind and the attitude only hurts yourself and your attempts to get whole.
That's what I tried to point out on your first thread.
I truly hope it gets sorted and you don't kill yourself or make yourself miserable trying to make a point.
Hang in there!
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In all fairness as I recall there was a way to check new bikes on the showroom for movement in the crank. Everyone just chose to ignore doing it on the front side. Also when this reared its ugly head they could have put ten engines in the warehouse and handled claims within 48 hours. the real question for any company is are you marketing for today only or are you doing today what is needed to be the leader in 5 to 10 years in the future.
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In all fairness as I recall there was a way to check new bikes on the showroom for movement in the crank. Everyone just chose to ignore doing it on the front side. Also when this reared its ugly head they could have put ten engines in the warehouse and handled claims within 48 hours. the real question for any company is are you marketing for today only or are you doing today what is needed to be the leader in 5 to 10 years in the future.
I don't know if that bulletin method would work on a bike with zero wear at the block/thrust surface.
But you're right they could handle it better. No argument.
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Point of order.
We don't have a definitive "range".
And since we don't know Guzzi's internal practices we also don't know if THEY KNOW for sure which bikes are effected by VIN.
Was only one guy doing the assembly of the motors at that step?
Was he making the mistake on each one?
Is he sleeping with the fishes in Lake Como?
Oh and the Piaggio stock comment, hilarious.
It sucks, I do feel sorry for you having to deal with this BS. I've warned every soul who has approached me asking about new V7's about the potential for this in a II model.
But in life sometimes you get the elevator and sometimes the shaft. When it's the latter I completely understand being angry and wanting to fight for what's right. But at some point you're pissing in wind and the attitude only hurts yourself and your attempts to get whole.
That's what I tried to point out on your first thread.
I truly hope it gets sorted and you don't kill yourself or make yourself miserable trying to make a point.
Hang in there!
I don't think they know which engines...my dealer was telling me that he got a replacement engine for a customer under warranty, put it in, and guess what? Same problem! The next engine that came was ok, and all is good now. Yes, that would bug the hell out of me...
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I don't think they know which engines...my dealer was telling me that he got a replacement engine for a customer under warranty, put it in, and guess what? Same problem! The next engine that came was ok, and all is good now. Yes, that would bug the hell out of me...
You would think they would be putting V7III engines in them unless they built up a number of V7II complete engines as spares.
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You would think they would be putting V7III engines in them unless they built up a number of V7II complete engines as spares.
I doubt it's that simple.
I mean even if the Hemi head III fits the frame without trouble there are differences in the exhaust, electronics (the dash and presumably the ECM). I would think that would open up a whole new can of worms and increase costs even more.
That said, I'm both shocked and dismayed that they actually shipped a motor with the same problem. I mean, it might be one thing not to disassemble to the point where it can be checked once it is in a frame, but with the motor still sitting on a stand/bench/crate I would think you could do it more reasonably.
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I really doubt they have a list or a range they know are affected. Otherwise you would not get a bad replacement. The only list is on the GT site and it's pretty broad of a range. They'll be out there just like Hydro's, Flatt tappets and oil pumps. Buyer beware.
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I think the OP has every reason to be pissed.
I just want to warn him not ride a bike that might seize and toss him off!
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Without a reliable list they would have to let it develope. They would also have no idea how many spares they would need. They may be doing all they can under the circumstances .
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I think the OP has every reason to be pissed.
I don't think there's a single person here who has said he shouldn't.
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I think the OP has every reason to be pissed.
I just want to warn him not ride a bike that might seize and toss him off!
If this engine seizing resulting in injury to the rider is a real possibility then I hope people are reporting this to the government overseers who can force a recall on the company if they don't do voluntary recalls.