How long should one wait for Guzzi to make warranty decisions

[twowheeladdict]

If no one ever purchases a *new* motorbike , why would the manufacturer bother building any new motorbikes ?

 Do your homework , easy enough to do , then if there is an issue make certain that you have documentation , and then attempt to remain calm . We have had this discussion before , Moto Guzzi is a very small company , and while Piaggio may own them now , they are still a boutique builder of motorbikes , it is unreasonable to expect Moto Guzzi to behave like Honda or the MoCo , and also slightly unrealistic to expect a small dealer to behave like a dealership that moves 1,000 units a year . We inhabit a world of cookie cutter products , there is a reason why someone chooses to buy a product as unusual as a Moto Guzzi . Like the person who moves to a very rural area to get away from the city and then complains because the small town nearby doesn't have all of the conveniences of the large town they escaped from , it seems a bit disingenuous at best .

 Dusty

I probably would not have bought the V7III Carbon new if I had to go to a dealer who is barely keeping his head above water.  I will also never buy a bike without a test ride. 

Fortunately, where I did buy my V7, (even though it is 1 1/2 hours away) is a huge family owned multi-brand dealer that can afford to stock and sell Moto Guzzi.  Moto Guzzi offers something unique with their air cooled shaft drive configuration in a standard motorcycle.  If they moved to liquid cooling and chain drive then they would be directly competing with the Japanese. 

[ohiorider]

A few months after I took delivery of my 1200 Sport from a dealer in New Hampshire in 2009, and rode it back to hometown Cleveland Ohio, I began having issues with the fuel tank blistering around the plastic chrome 'wings' on both sides of the tank.  (Note: I think only a few dealers used the promotional pricing to unload stock .... there wasn't one near Cleveland, or I would have purchased it here.)

I attempted to obtain a warranty replacement by working with a now defunct Guzzi/Yamaha shop.  After several weeks and several phone calls, I stopped by their shop again, and was told, 'we're getting no response from Guzzi re your warranty claim.  Here's their NYC number.  See if you can get any results.'  I contacted Guzzi USA and though I talked with a Guzzi employee, nothing ever came of it.  "Oh, Bob, nothing yet.  I will call you next Tuesday."  Much like Wimpy's hamburgers "..... I will gladly pay you Tuesday ...."  Never happened.

I posted factual comments on WG, that didn't take swipes at the dealer or Guzzi, until finally, one of Guzzi's better/best dealers contacted me and asked if I was capable of installing the tank if he could get it for me.  Answer "yes."  I volunteered to pay shipping and within a week or so, it arrived.  This dealer commented " I hate to see any customer treated this way."

Bob

[Bulldog9]

How a person runs their business has more to do with their success then us being careless with our money.  I know businesses there negotiations are involved have to have a certain percentage of dumb customers but when business A is trying to charge 20% in dealer profit, has everything overpriced to be competitive, and doesn't make sure their employees know the product and customer relations, then they deserve to go out of business. 

Dealers that advertise a great price and have all these hidden fees that you only find out about when you are in with the paperwork guys deserve to go out of business. 

The above examples are businesses that don't care about repeat customers and get a bad reputation.  Some dealers in my area will never sell me a new bike.  I might buy a used one from them if they don't try and tell me they went through the bike to make it safe and the brake fluid is rootbeer colored, which I have seen.

It is great to support a good dealer.  Stupid to support a bad one.

Business model and customer service practices matter. I embrace the free market.... Have a Guzzi Dealer 9 miles from me in Arlington, but wont spend a $$ there. Their shop is a disaster, and they are predators selling to dumb yuppies. They are a mess and play the game with $5000 off MSRP advertised, and want to give you a 'customer credit for parts and service' as the discount..... ummm.... NO THANKS 

Next closest is 60 miles, in Richmond. They have a great service dept & customer rep, but are pricey. The next closest is 180 miles away, Accident Maryland. I am about to buy my second bike from them. No games, decent prices, and $100 doc fee.  Haven't needed warranty work, but if I did I'd go to the dealer in Richmond. The Stornello is the first new bike I have ever purchased, the MGX will be #2 and likely last.  I likely wont need warranty work, but if I do I'll suck it up and make the drive.

I do 99% of my own work, always have, but I understand that is not the case for some. IMO, if you own a Guzzi, you better be able to wrench..... Forums like this, and Griso Ghetto provide nearly every answer I need. Add sources like AF1, Cadre, Harpers, and even some dealers like Hamlin make getting parts easy. This is a great community.....

[oldbike54]

 Riding a Moto Guzzi requires a commitment not needed to own most other brands , it has been that way for years .

 Dusty

[Lannis]

Next closest is 60 miles, in Richmond. They have a great service dept & customer rep, but are pricey.

The "pricey" bit, I realize, is necessary from a "Guzzi Content" standpoint ... 

... but one thing about dealing with Moto Richmond - the deal won't backfire on you.

Like good tools, sometimes the most expensive one is the cheapest one.

Lannis

[John A]

Riding a Moto Guzzi requires a commitment not needed to own most other brands , it has been that way for years .

 Dusty

That sums it all up quite nicely.

[twowheeladdict]

Riding a Moto Guzzi requires a commitment not needed to own most other brands , it has been that way for years .

 Dusty

Which is why, if wasn't a multi bike owner, and trailer the Guzzi outside my local riding area, I wouldn't own one.  I sure do love it though and it makes a great subject for my photos.   

[oldbike54]

Which is why, if wasn't a multi bike owner, and trailer the Guzzi outside my local riding area, I wouldn't own one.  I sure do love it though and it makes a great subject for my photos.   

 One way to see this , then we have riders like Karl Werth and Ken Hand who have a million Guzzi miles . The close knit community that is always willing to help is more important than any dealer network .

 Dusty

[Ncdan]

If no one ever purchases a *new* motorbike , why would the manufacturer bother building any new motorbikes ?

 Do your homework , easy enough to do , then if there is an issue make certain that you have documentation , and then attempt to remain calm . We have had this discussion before , Moto Guzzi is a very small company , and while Piaggio may own them now , they are still a boutique builder of motorbikes , it is unreasonable to expect Moto Guzzi to behave like Honda or the MoCo , and also slightly unrealistic to expect a small dealer to behave like a dealership that moves 1,000 units a year . We inhabit a world of cookie cutter products , there is a reason why someone chooses to buy a product as unusual as a Moto Guzzi . Like the person who moves to a very rural area to get away from the city and then complains because the small town nearby doesn't have all of the conveniences of the large town they escaped from , it seems a bit disingenuous at best .

 Dusty

👍

[Tusayan]

If no one ever purchases a *new* motorbike , why would the manufacturer bother building any new motorbikes ?

 Do your homework , easy enough to do , then if there is an issue make certain that you have documentation , and then attempt to remain calm . We have had this discussion before , Moto Guzzi is a very small company , and while Piaggio may own them now , they are still a boutique builder of motorbikes , it is unreasonable to expect Moto Guzzi to behave like Honda or the MoCo , and also slightly unrealistic to expect a small dealer to behave like a dealership that moves 1,000 units a year . We inhabit a world of cookie cutter products , there is a reason why someone chooses to buy a product as unusual as a Moto Guzzi . Like the person who moves to a very rural area to get away from the city and then complains because the small town nearby doesn't have all of the conveniences of the large town they escaped from , it seems a bit disingenuous at best .

 Dusty

Very few people would buy new bikes if they couldn't someday find a used bike buyer.  Some of them, for reasons that don't concern me in the least except that I benefit, sell their bikes after putting only 5 or 10,000 miles on them.  Funnily enough I find the new bike buyer, now seller, at that point likes the idea of somebody showing up with 100% cash on hand, especially if he's selling a bike the average buyer thinks is 'weird'.  He might well use that cash as the down payment on the next new bike that catches his eye.

Re expectations of dealers: after I buy a bike, new or used, it rarely returns to any dealer as long as I own it.  My expectations for the dealer of a 'non-cookie cutter' bike are simple - meaning no expectations at all.  In fact I'm not interested in buying any bike that's designed with ties to dealer service, and one attraction to older Guzzis was that they had to be something the owner could maintain, because the dealers were few and far between.  That's exactly the kind of bike I look to buy even now.  I think on that basis I'm a very low dealer demand kind of guy.

[Hittman]

Speaking from someone who dealt with Piaggio quite a bit they are like every other manufacturer I ever dealt with as a service manager. If you provide the proper documentation to them then they will cover the warranty. It's not a matter of "waiting to hear from Italy", the employees in the US can make the call. It really depends on the report the dealer has with their tech rep. If you cover your bases and provide the necessary documentation and can explain what happened and why they should cover it then they will. A shitty dealer is a shitty dealer no matter what the brand. 

[power685]

I really like the design, history, and performance of the Guzzi’s I have owned. I am happy I have had the experience of owning them. However, I have to constantly resist my attraction to these sexy machines. I despise the fact that you practically have to kiss the dealers and piaggio’ a$$ to get repairs you are entitled to. The cost of any manufacturers warranty is built into its pricing. How this company treats its customers and their dealers is a disgrace. To take so long to make a decision on whether the all mighty piaggio is going to cover something they are legally bound to cover is such bad business.

           All this talk about having to document all the chain of events to get a bike repaired that is under warranty is insanity in 2019. Every time I read one of these threads it saves me form spending my good money on a bad company. This literally leaves me shaking my head.

[twowheeladdict]

I really like the design, history, and performance of the Guzzi’s I have owned. I am happy I have had the experience of owning them. However, I have to constantly resist my attraction to these sexy machines. I despise the fact that you practically have to kiss the dealers and piaggio’ a$$ to get repairs you are entitled to. The cost of any manufacturers warranty is built into its pricing. How this company treats its customers and their dealers is a disgrace. To take so long to make a decision on whether the all mighty piaggio is going to cover something they are legally bound to cover is such bad business.

           All this talk about having to document all the chain of events to get a bike repaired that is under warranty is insanity in 2019. Every time I read one of these threads it saves me form spending my good money on a bad company. This literally leaves me shaking my head.

Here is a quick comparison to Royal Enfield who is growing like crazy.  I guy on the forum said his Himalayan was popping out of 5th gear.  He brought it to the dealer and they contacted Royal Enfield who decided to send a new engine and the guy was back on the road in a week.  The story is that Royal Enfield wanted to disassemble the engine themselves to determine the root cause. 

[Bulldog9]

I get what you're saying. I'm not going to tell someone else's story and use their name without permission, but I know two highly respected former Moto Guzzi senior mechanics and service advisors who literally retired and quit the business because of the constant headache and fights they had with piaggio over warranty coverage. Most of their dealings were with the American headquarters, but several huge headaches for major issues were sourced in Italy.

When I bought my Norge in 2016, it was still covered under the factory warranty. I quickly realized that the fuel gauge did not go below 1/4. Evidently this was a known problem. MI took care of me, and swapped out the fuel pump and fuel level sender unit from their local stock and put in the warranty request to Piaggio. When I got back from my deployment in late 2017, I swung back by MI. in talking with the mechanic that did my work, they were still waiting for the warranty replacement of the part from piaggio. When I expressed incredulity he simply responded, welcome to our world this is normal business for them.

anecdotal evidence is exactly that, you can find examples for any position you choose to take oh, but there is a repeated and regular history and narrative that piaggio is horrible about warranty service. heck, I'm still waiting for the spark plug cover replacement from my V7, which blew off on the first ride. When I took delivery, I noticed that the cover was not tight and mentioned it to the salesman. we checked two or three other bikes on the floor with three or four being loose as well so we thought it was okay. so needless to say I wasn't surprised when I got back from my first ride to find it missing.

The dealer was great, and immediately put in a warranty claim, but piaggio has yet to replace the part. I just decided to spend $15 from af1 and call it done if it ever does come in, I'll have an extra.

I don't ride a known Moto Guzzi motorcycles because I love the parent company, I love the machines and I'm willing to take the risks that come with the benefits.

As others have said the Guzzi community is one of the many things that makes owning these motorcycles such a joy.

Speaking from someone who dealt with Piaggio quite a bit they are like every other manufacturer I ever dealt with as a service manager. If you provide the proper documentation to them then they will cover the warranty. It's not a matter of "waiting to hear from Italy", the employees in the US can make the call. It really depends on the report the dealer has with their tech rep. If you cover your bases and provide the necessary documentation and can explain what happened and why they should cover it then they will. A shitty dealer is a shitty dealer no matter what the brand.

[Darren Williams]

I really like the design, history, and performance of the Guzzi’s I have owned. I am happy I have had the experience of owning them. However, I have to constantly resist my attraction to these sexy machines. I despise the fact that you practically have to kiss the dealers and piaggio’ a$$ to get repairs you are entitled to. The cost of any manufacturers warranty is built into its pricing. How this company treats its customers and their dealers is a disgrace. To take so long to make a decision on whether the all mighty piaggio is going to cover something they are legally bound to cover is such bad business.

           All this talk about having to document all the chain of events to get a bike repaired that is under warranty is insanity in 2019. Every time I read one of these threads it saves me form spending my good money on a bad company. This literally leaves me shaking my head.

Like I stated above, I've had several warranty claims on 3 new Guzzi's I've bought in the last 9 years and none were any problem. I documented what happened, photos were helpful with the dash, and the only real delay was getting parts from Italy that were not stocked in the US. My last one I was concerned about because I bought the bike from a dealer that closed shop a few months after the purchase. Evidently, he did all the paperwork right because it went through smooth with the new dealer. And none of the warranty cost me anything other than time(Donnie at Kinetic Playground even filled my almost empty gas tank because I had to ride it 100 miles to his shop). I can't complain at all about the warranty service I have received.

I will say the 3 Yamahas and 1 Honda I have purchased in the last 5 years needed abosolutely zero warranty work done to them.   

[TN Mark]

Riding a Moto Guzzi requires a commitment not needed to own most other brands , it has been that way for years .

 Dusty

How very sad for a company as big as Piaggio to still offer such poor warranty work to so many of their customers. Yea, I know, maybe a great dealer can help you. Too few current and potential Moto Guzzi customers have that option because there are so few great dealers.

What I get from reading this thread is that, no one in Italy or in the US that can actually make a decision has learned much in the last 40+ years regarding customer relations.

I've read that Piaggio is selling a decent amount (in Moto Guzzi terms) of V7 variants to newer owners to the brand. Burn them once and you'll likely not get a second chance. Burn an older, experienced Guzzi owner and well, they sort of expect it.

I agree with the sentiment that buying a used Moto Guzzi without the pretense of even having a factory warranty may be the better route to take. Sort of like people who buy a Smart car with the pretense of 'safety'. I'd rather ride my motorcycle having full knowledge there isn't any pretense of safety.

[Cam3512]

When talking to my dealer (yes, he's far away) about this very issue, it was well known to him as he's done several.  He explained Guzzi determined it's easier and more cost effective to just ship an entire new engine and 4 hours of labor to install.  They do this to expedite the process to avoid Lemon Law buy backs.  But as usual, you can lead a horse to water...

It's worth the drive to do business with a reputable and passionate dealer.   

[Ncdan]

Not trying to jump on the wagon to trash any dealer or the brand but there comes a time when somebody or a company must be called out by we the people. I attempted to do business with the only dealership close to me last year, which turned out bad, and they pointed out a 2017 1400 tourer, red with black bags. When I inquired as why the black bags he told me it had been shipped with the wrong bags and over a year later he still was unable to get any aspect of the factory chain of command to address the issue. You know there is a time to call a spade a spade and this company has serious issues. However, I still love my 1400 tourer. It’s like being married to a cheating wife:(

[Cam3512]

It’s like being married to a cheating wife:(

I've always said, "as long as she brings home a new trick"!

[Ncdan]

I've always said, "as long as she brings home a new trick"!

😂😂😂😂

[LowRyter]

Since I simply get snarky comments that I have a bad additude (because I guess I should be thankful I have a useless bike sitting here) from people on this site and then moderators lock threads I am still waiting for an answer to what I feel is a pretty simple question.  How long would you expect to wait for Guzzi to make a decision on what they are doing for warranty for a bike that is not usable (and has less than 1000 miles)?

I'd say you deserve better from Guzzi and perhaps from members of the forum that have to put up with their own issues.

Restoring an old bike might be a joy, maintaining a middle aged bike can be a frustrating annoyance, and trying to service a new bike that you're paying for and expecting to ride can be just a PIA.

Best of luck.

[LowRyter]

Coming from a former powersports service manager.

It's absolutely vital to have the dealership on your side - the service manager in particular. They are the ones who will go to bat for you with Piaggio. Direct any ire at Piaggio warranty - not the product and not the dealership. State your case. Elicit empathy at a minimum, sympathy if possible.

Remember, the dealership doesn't want to damage their relationship with Piaggio for your sake. They have to work with them long after you've gone on your way.

Manufacturers are often like insurance companies - they'll look for any reason to deny a claim because they're utterly paranoid of being taken advantage of  - by dealers and customers alike. Whether or not you think that's justified or rational, it's a fact.

If I had a good rapport with a customer and there was a legitimate grievance, I was happy to be a tenacious advocate on their behalf. If it was just someone who had a breakdown when they thought they shouldn't have? Well, life isn't always fair.

If someone starts throwing lawyer terms around, the conversation will get very quiet indeed.

Reading this gives no one a reason to purchase a new Guzzi or Aprilia.   

Perhaps not your intent, it does appear that customers are for convenience of the dealer and Piaggio and not the other way around. 

[LowRyter]

Coming from the new car world this is crazy..  Its normally right away, and some times a phone call to confirm. Worst case is a week to get a rep to look at it. I don't see why it would take more then a week or so. I mean, is it broke? yes...  Is there damage to the part not caused by part failure?.. Yes or no..  If its a gray area, we need a rep to look at it.. IMHO anything short of that is just falling down on the job...  Granted this is not FIXING the issue.....  labor, parts, skill etc can effect that greatly...  but you should know one way or the other on coverage pretty quickly. Again...  Im coming from the car world, and understand its a bigger pond... but still

speaking of new cars, my younger brother has '16 Corvette with 8 speed auto trans....as do Camaro owners, Cadillac owners...... The first fix is a tranny fluid flush, then the converter, then dunnno what............. so far my brother couldn't even get the flush.

[bad Chad]

How long should one wait for the OP to update this thread?

[oldbike54]

 OK fellas , cool it with the snark .

 Dusty

[pete roper]

In my experience when I was a service agent I very rarely had an issue when sticking in a warranty claim and in most cases I'd get approval either the same day or, with things like rollerisation claims, within a couple of days, as long as it wasn't August! Getting the parts was another matter, that could take a while but rarely more than three/four weeks at most. That could be frustrating but by the time I was knocking over rollerisations at one or two a week I'd started having kits 'On the shelf' which helped with down time.

Nowadays the situation is much, much worse. Including people getting knocked back on rollerisations because the damage 'Isn't bad enough yet!' Even if they meet all the criteria. I hate to think what will happen if the V85 has any issues? Luckily that is now an SEP.

Pete

[Kev m]

Quote from: OldMojo on April 26, 2019, 06:42:06 PM
Coming from a former powersports service manager.

It's absolutely vital to have the dealership on your side - the service manager in particular. They are the ones who will go to bat for you with Piaggio. Direct any ire at Piaggio warranty - not the product and not the dealership. State your case. Elicit empathy at a minimum, sympathy if possible.

Remember, the dealership doesn't want to damage their relationship with Piaggio for your sake. They have to work with them long after you've gone on your way.

Manufacturers are often like insurance companies - they'll look for any reason to deny a claim because they're utterly paranoid of being taken advantage of  - by dealers and customers alike. Whether or not you think that's justified or rational, it's a fact.

If I had a good rapport with a customer and there was a legitimate grievance, I was happy to be a tenacious advocate on their behalf. If it was just someone who had a breakdown when they thought they shouldn't have? Well, life isn't always fair.

If someone starts throwing lawyer terms around, the conversation will get very quiet indeed.

Reading this gives no one a reason to purchase a new Guzzi or Aprilia.   

Perhaps not your intent, it does appear that customers are for convenience of the dealer and Piaggio and not the other way around.

I think OM made a great post that factually details the reality of the situation not only with Piaggio, but with any brand. The only difference is some brands may be more responsive or forgiving at the corporate level.

[twowheeladdict]

Reading this gives no one a reason to purchase a new Guzzi or Aprilia.   

Perhaps not your intent, it does appear that customers are for convenience of the dealer and Piaggio and not the other way around.


I think OM made a great post that factually details the reality of the situation not only with Piaggio, but with any brand. The only difference is some brands may be more responsive or forgiving at the corporate level.

Every multi-brand dealership I have spoken to, and I have spoken to quite a few in my travels, have stated that Kawasaki is the easiest to work with on a warranty claim.  If they only made something new that I would want to buy.  I've already been through almost all the bikes they are currently offering with the exception of the W800. 

Kawasaki even reimbursed me for a repair I paid for at a Honda dealer while on a trip. 

[Ncdan]

Every multi-brand dealership I have spoken to, and I have spoken to quite a few in my travels, have stated that Kawasaki is the easiest to work with on a warranty claim.  If they only made something new that I would want to buy.  I've already been through almost all the bikes they are currently offering with the exception of the W800. 

Kawasaki even reimbursed me for a repair I paid for at a Honda dealer while on a trip.

I think it’s a possibility that the manufacturer of our beloved Moto Guzzi barely keeps the doors at the factory open from one week to the next and that’s the reason the consumer can’t get warranty work done. There is really no other reasonable explanation as the way they do things is the beginning of the ending of any company.

[Cam3512]

I think it’s a possibility that the manufacturer of our beloved Moto Guzzi barely keeps the doors at the factory open from one week to the next and that’s the reason the consumer can’t get warranty work done. There is really no other reasonable explanation as the way they do things is the beginning of the ending of any company.

And no doubt subsidized by the government where they won't let them fail.  Been nearly 100 years.