Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: wicks on October 21, 2019, 10:01:55 AM
-
Isn't a Le Mans just a glorious piece of crazy cool Italian design and ingenuity?
Lovely old carbies awaiting float bowls and done. I replaced a lot of parts including diaphragms and accelerator fuel valves, needles, jets. New washers for shaft were too tight so i used one new and one old, lithium grease on that shaft. Slides move freely. Don't know who made these stacks but the orig owner mailed them over, they came with the bike from the dealer in 78.
(https://i.ibb.co/bXydpT0/IMG-7794.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bXydpT0)
(https://i.ibb.co/KDy69yz/IMG-7795.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KDy69yz)
Here's a before - nasty! Don't let your carbs sit for 35 years with gas in the bowls!
(https://i.ibb.co/v4dKywC/IMG-7656.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v4dKywC)
-
Couple pics when she just got here.
(https://i.ibb.co/MPNNY3n/IMG-7522.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MPNNY3n)
(https://i.ibb.co/4ssW2c7/IMG-7524.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4ssW2c7)
(https://i.ibb.co/b25GcWk/IMG-7540.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b25GcWk)
Note the wadding placed in the mufflers by PO in '82:
(https://i.ibb.co/q1ZPxxt/IMG-7527.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q1ZPxxt)
-
This stuff worked wonders on a gas tank that looked like the bilge of a 400 year old ship. RUST! Required 48 hours of soaking and occasional agitation. But metal inside looks new now!
(https://i.ibb.co/r0S6NJS/IMG-7722.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r0S6NJS)
(https://i.ibb.co/VqyCcBd/IMG-7872.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VqyCcBd)
-
Very nice machine indeed. Looking great. Was there something wrong with the bowls, or are they just not in the finished photo?
-
Is the lovely lady holding the gas tank, the one providing "agitation" for the evaporust to work? :wink:
Rick.
-
Amazing someone could own a Guzzi LM and only ride it 2 thousand miles?? Great find and best wishes to get it going, keep us posted on the progress
-
:thumb: :popcorn:
-
(https://i.ibb.co/RQ244wD/cx-swan3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RQ244wD)
Those old things?? Total POS! ask any V7 owner here <shrug> You'd better let me give it a decent home :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
-
Bowls - couldn't get em clean enough. O-rings melted/fused by fuel mung into the bowl passages, cannot get all clear, so replacing.
Lovely lady agitator. Ehhem. Yes. It's California and she's half Italian.
The brakes are torn down now, the hoses are also "fused" shut, so waiting on all new. Calipers were almost fused. 24 hours penetrant, then a hammer and 160PSI got the pucks out. Masters both rebuilt no hitches.
-
One of the agitator JFF. In my original production Pastil chair by Eero Aarnio.
(https://i.ibb.co/1GpYrvS/DSCF5830.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1GpYrvS)
-
You are the maker of the Pastil chair? :bow: I'll have to tell my wife. We have a knockoff, unsure whom it's made by.
-
No as written it is created by Eero Aarnio. The original productions are hand laid fiberglass so you get a lot more of the original art of it. And no mold crease. I just took this picture in the backyard. ;)
-
Nasty calipers. Don't let yours sit without use for too long, and flush the fluid. The stuff coagulates. Maybe modern fluid is more resilient, this was the original goo from the assembly line. New box rings and o-rings and anodized pucks should make them work like new.
(https://i.ibb.co/d6QPCpF/IMG-7817.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d6QPCpF)
(https://i.ibb.co/9V8Gdhp/IMG-7819.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9V8Gdhp)
Could not save the orig tires. So dried up, no flex left, would not come off rim. I used the original wheel weights to balance Dunlop D404s. I am wondering if these old coils and the rest of the ignition is going to make spark...
(https://i.ibb.co/G5WdRwz/59284659511-34-A8-EEB0-1753-42-B3-A565-11-DB95-B56-F54.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G5WdRwz)
(https://i.ibb.co/Cv4y1wH/IMG-7716.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Cv4y1wH)
(https://i.ibb.co/gDj6jsM/IMG-7721.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gDj6jsM)
(https://i.ibb.co/FXbDRMN/IMG-7790.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FXbDRMN)
-
I haven't had any trouble with old ignition parts like coils. But I will say that when first starting a vehicle from a long rest, be sure everything is well oiled. Remove spark plugs and rotate the engine via the rear wheel. I'd rather go slow than using the starter. This will help prime the oil pump and get oil everywhere it needs to go. Also, going slow and getting oil everywhere, besides preventing a dry start-up, will help keep the seals from chattering and possibly throwing their garter springs.
I've had to remove a few tires that were so hard, the only way was cutting them off. Even then it wasn't easy.
-
This is GREAT advice, thanks. I've not even tried turning the engine as I hadn't "read up" on this yet. I've changed all the oils, but not checked valves or turned anything. I plan to drizzle oil over the valves and down the rods, and use a clean spray bottle to squirt a bit into the cylinders (to get on full circumference of the cylinder around piston) before turning to adjust valves. I do wonder about a way to "splash" oil around inside to get to the seals, as you mentioned, that's my one big fear that as soon as I get her running, she's going to dump all the oil through dried up seals and I'll have to pull the gearbox etc.
I haven't had any trouble with old ignition parts like coils. But I will say that when first starting a vehicle from a long rest, be sure everything is well oiled. Remove spark plugs and rotate the engine via the rear wheel. I'd rather go slow than using the starter. This will help prime the oil pump and get oil everywhere it needs to go. Also, going slow and getting oil everywhere, besides preventing a dry start-up, will help keep the seals from chattering and possibly throwing their garter springs.
I've had to remove a few tires that were so hard, the only way was cutting them off. Even then it wasn't easy.
-
This is GREAT advice, thanks. I've not even tried turning the engine as I hadn't "read up" on this yet. I've changed all the oils, but not checked valves or turned anything. I plan to drizzle oil over the valves and down the rods, and use a clean spray bottle to squirt a bit into the cylinders (to get on full circumference of the cylinder around piston) before turning to adjust valves. I do wonder about a way to "splash" oil around inside to get to the seals, as you mentioned, that's my one big fear that as soon as I get her running, she's going to dump all the oil through dried up seals and I'll have to pull the gearbox etc.
I'd use "fogging oil" to spray the cylinders. Easy enough to pre-lube the rockers: remove one of the M6 hex head cap screws securing the rocker spindles and use a squirt can to force oil into the passages.
(https://www.zoro.com/static/cms/product/full/Z-y3Bufo9oy.JPG)
-
Ahh yes Charlie, will do that too thanks. I ordered some fogging oil, suppose it'll come in the next couple of days and I can wait. Shall get into the forks next me thinks.
-
Rotating the rear wheel in 5th gear for five minutes will get the oil pump primed and oil spurting everywhere. Then use the starter to crank it over some more. Starting it then won't be a problem. Fogging the cylinders and lubing the valves beforehand is a good idea.
-
Thanks 'Spokes - I wondered how long. ;) Forks rebuilt with Wirth progressive and regular style dampers.
(https://i.ibb.co/D4ZZ8Y6/IMG-7922.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D4ZZ8Y6)
Dunlop D404 in 100/90-18 do not fit. Which means I am back to square one on tires as there's nothing narrower in 18. I can't do an unmatched set so it's front and rear once I figure out what tires I can actually run. Bummer.
Or I could try shaving the edges a bit, is there a tool/technique for that?
(https://i.ibb.co/t8LYdgk/IMG-7925.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t8LYdgk)
-
Been there with my LM2 36mm carbs. I left off the spring mounted externally on the cable lever and fitted softer internal springs. With PTFE conduit cables it made a big difference to rotational effort at the twist grip.
Tyres; I fitted Pirelli Sport Demons after reading good reviews, but have found them wooden with no feedback. Next set will be Continental Classic Attack radials, due to sizing that they are made in probably 90 90 18 front and 110 90 18 rear.
Talking to a guy on another Guzzi forum, he says the radials kick the cross plys into the dust. Demons are tubeless, as will be the Contis.
-
Or I could try shaving the edges a bit, is there a tool/technique for that?
(https://i.ibb.co/t8LYdgk/IMG-7925.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t8LYdgk)
That is a bummer. Can you take off the fender mounting bolts off at least on one side, side the tire up then put the bolts back on?
-
I left off the spring mounted externally on the cable lever
There were no such cable springs fitted, maybe that was an LM2 thing? Useful tire thoughts! But I think my PHFs are going to work great - they cleaned up really well apart from the bowls.
The trouble with removing the fender bolts is that they are nuts! Haha. Got tire past them, but it rubs a bit on the left side of fender. Thus I was thinking I could shave off a mm and it would be clear...
-
When tires started squaring off I've rounded them back out with one of those sheet metal bondo files - looks sort of like a cheese grater. The rubber comes off in nice little slivers. With the front tire it would help if someone else rotates the tire keeping it spinning.
-
Continental Classic Attack radials,
I'm a fan.
-
Ordered some in 90/90-18 and 110/90-18.
I'm a fan.
-
"There were no such cable springs fitted"
Looked at your pic of the carb in bits and you appear to have them fitted; number 26.
(https://i.ibb.co/Pcm1fdJ/PHF36.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Pcm1fdJ)
upload images (https://imgbb.com/)
One other tip...it took me ages to purge the accelerator pumps and get them working; in the end it was easier to take the carbs off the bike and do it on the bench. If you intend measuring the accelerator pump output and setting them up, you'll need them on the bench anyway.
-
Oh Steve, didn't realize you meant the shaft springs. I am very curious what you mean about purging the pumps - I suppose priming them? Is there a technique? They are on the bench still yes.
Valves required very little tightening, left exhaust was still correct clearance. Oil primed in nicely to all rockers after not much turning of rear wheel.
I cleaned off the old gasket material quite easily with a dremel and plastic brush attachment.
(https://i.ibb.co/0r7DttW/IMG-7976.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0r7DttW)
(https://i.ibb.co/G3TFFVY/IMG-7974.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G3TFFVY)
-
"There were no such cable springs fitted"
Looked at your pic of the carb in bits and you appear to have them fitted; number 26.
That little spring is meant to keep the cable (#18) under tension.
-
I went for these petcocks, since the valves are paired (both forward or rear to on or reserve). The fuel lines should be OK coming off the back instead of straight down.
Tried to save original petcocks but what was left of the reserve pipes just crumbled in my hand.
(https://i.ibb.co/wMkTtVK/IMG-7978.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wMkTtVK)
-
That little spring is meant to keep the cable (#18) under tension.
Not had a problem since removal and they're tucked away safely in case I ever need them.
Accelerator pumps...with the carbs on the bike and fuel on, I just couldn't get a stream of fuel to come out of the jets no matter how much I twisted the throttle. In the end I removed the carbs, removed the adjusters to check the diaphragms, refitted, manually filled the float bowls and moved the carb levers through full range until the pumps started working eventually, took a while though and no idea why it was so difficult.
Not saying you'll have the same problem, just a heads up.
-
Not had a problem since removal and they're tucked away safely in case I ever need them.
Accelerator pumps...with the carbs on the bike and fuel on, I just couldn't get a stream of fuel to come out of the jets no matter how much I twisted the throttle. In the end I removed the carbs, removed the adjusters to check the diaphragms, refitted, manually filled the float bowls and moved the carb levers through full range until the pumps started working eventually, took a while though and no idea why it was so difficult.
Not saying you'll have the same problem, just a heads up.
There is a brass plug on the top of the pump transfer body (triangle casting held on by 3 small screws) which you use for priming the pump, otherwise its trying to suck air through the system until fuel gets up from the bowl
-
Ahh interesting. I shall try my luck with priming them via the pump plug while on the bike and see what I see/feel.
Re spring: It seems to me that the shaft springs would actually make throttle pull lighter though only slightly, as they pull the lever toward open, not the other way. Perhaps a PO reversed them on your carbs by mistake?
-
Just a possible cure for your plugged float bowl passages , when I had nothing to loose I'd carefully drop muriatic acid from a glass eyedropper into the passages . Try not to
spill it on the outside of the bowls or it will blacken the surface . If it bubbles out the other passage it's doing it's job , rinse with lots of water . My experiences with the lighter
throttle springs wasn't as positive as others here , frequently the return to idle was quite hesitant sometimes . (Plumbers frequently use muriatic acid to clean pipes) Peter
-
Forgot to mention in my earlier post about your concerns over leaking seals after getting it running . Your worst fears are probably going to come
to pass ! That's an awful long time for seals to stay pliable . Lots of good advice here (and good luck) Peter
-
More often than not, seals have been good on the bikes I've awakened from long sleeps. 20 years ago I got an R90 that had been sitting outside under a tarp for five years. Figured it was good for some parts at best, but when I got it running it settled into a nice even idle right away. So I got it rideable and the trans and final drive were excellent. Took a little polish to the tank and it cleaned up nicely. Damn! Guess it isn't a parts bike! Turned out to be a very good runner, but I did have to replace a lot of seals.
Since then I've recovered many bikes and don't recall any that needed more than one or two seals - a lot of them had no leaks. Of the Guzzis since the first three years ago, I've had to replace a trans output seal in the 87 - a bike that had been ridden somewhat regularly and the PO knew the seal needed replacing. The T3 needed an inner FD seal replaced - it came to me leaking. And finally, the 85 LeMans last run in 1991, now with 1500 more miles, needed the FD large seal to stop a drip on the rear wheel. All the rest are good.
I've heard of numerous BMWs recovered from long sleeps needing no seals or very few. So don't just assume seals will be bad - I've found more often than not, most are still good. Now, if it's run before the seals are lubed (as might have been the case with my first R90 20 years ago before I got this smart) quite possibly there will be leaks. Even a new seal needs a smear of lube when installed. Run dry, I can see how it might not last long.
-
You've had good fortune and I'm sure the owner hopes for the same . I too would rather be riding
the Le Mans than wrenching on it, :) Peter
-
Well if there is any way I can get some lube onto the seals before I start her up - apart from turning the engine to 90 degrees (maybe I could think of some way to do that hah) would welcome any thoughts!
Some seals in the bike are as new, I think it just depends on the materials used. For instance, the original fork seals were pliable as if they were new still. Some others were dry as a triceratops bone as if they had been sitting in the sun for 30 years.
Oh - and thanks for the tip on the float bowls. I did find a NOS pair which are on the way from Wolfgang now, lucky find thanks for the advice there.
-
I too would rather be riding the Le Mans than wrenching on it, :) Peter
Wouldn't we all! :thumb:
I believe all the seals will get lubed if the gears and oil pump will splash it around at low speed - like moving things by hand. And then what didn't, will when the engine is started up - keep RPMs low. I've run BMWs, with the wet driveline, on the center stand, but have been told this puts a strain on the Guzzi UJoint.
I wouldn't worry about the fork seals, never had a problem with them.
-
apart from turning the engine to 90 degrees (maybe I could think of some way to do that hah) would welcome any thoughts!
It's pretty simple, really. Just take the engine out and turn it over. :evil: :smiley:
-
Very funny Chuck. I ordered this AGM battery https://www.batterymart.com/p-Big-Crank-ETX30L-Battery.html, which works great, but wondering if there is one slightly less tall (it can be longer), that people know of? The underseat tray doesn't fit over it - the battery needs to be a 1/2 inch shorter or so.
Put the Conti Classic Attacks on. They're very much like superbike tires. I think she's going to love the turns.
(https://i.ibb.co/RBHxCHb/IMG-8023.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RBHxCHb)
(https://i.ibb.co/hD64DBk/IMG-8022.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hD64DBk)
(https://i.ibb.co/vktCyYG/IMG-8024.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vktCyYG)
-
A little plastic bonder to reinforce this side panel mount which was already cracked on top. Hopefully good for another 40 years.
(https://i.ibb.co/KW5j83b/IMG-8035.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KW5j83b)
-
Sorry Le Mans, I was distracted for a day getting this 1000s tuned up and on the road. Dreams can come true. A 1000s in mint condition with a bit over 1200 miles on the clock. Fired up like clockwork today and an amazing ride just down to the station for a tank of gas. Tonti #3 and the trifecta (triptych) is now complete.
Thanks to Mr. David Swanson for agreeing to part with one of your collection! A real gentleman he is.
(https://i.ibb.co/10n68Tp/IMG-8081.jpg) (https://ibb.co/10n68Tp)
-
You are one lucky camper ! Could this put a damper on getting the Le Mans up and running ? Peter
-
Nice bike! Going through a similar process getting my 78 back on the road. Very close!
My float bowls had amazingly tough black stuff bonded to the bottom. I'm guessing long deceased o-ring reduced by old gas. My 77-date coded tires were rotting from the inside out, as well.
Love seeing another one coming back.
Steve...does someone make PTFE lined throttle cables for MG? The now-OEM BMW Mobile Tradition cables are PTFE lined and makes a big difference.
-
Little jewelers ultrasonic cleaners will loosen up cruddy stuff in small engines and carbs making them look new. Just a little dish soap does the trick, as some of the dedicated ultrasonic "solutions" will make the aluminum turn dark if run too long. We used to rebuild dozens of small airplane/car/helicopter engines a day when I worked in an R/C warranty department a long time ago, and that was our go-to trick to remove most, if not all buildup on these engines. Might be worth a try on some of these older, stubborn Guzzi carbs.
-
OK so I'm not the only one with nuked float bowls! Go the new and carbs are finally done. Just dealing with needing to pull the swing arm to get a new ujoint boot on.
Very interested in anything that lightens the throttle...everythi ng is clean lubed and smoothly routed but wow this is the toughest twist ever!
Nice bike! Going through a similar process getting my 78 back on the road. Very close!
My float bowls had amazingly tough black stuff bonded to the bottom. I'm guessing long deceased o-ring reduced by old gas. My 77-date coded tires were rotting from the inside out, as well.
Love seeing another one coming back.
Steve...does someone make PTFE lined throttle cables for MG? The now-OEM BMW Mobile Tradition cables are PTFE lined and makes a big difference.
-
Wait what? Who would make a bike that can't be started up on any of its own stands?
I've run BMWs, with the wet driveline, on the center stand, but have been told this puts a strain on the Guzzi UJoint.
-
Evidently the angle of the swingarm, when on the center stand, is radical enough that the uneven combustion pulses cause a jerky power flow, especially at low RPMs, that's hard on the u-joint.
-
Wait what? Who would make a bike that can't be started up on any of its own stands?
Guzzi. Do that at your own peril. :smiley:
-
Wow never heard this before! :bow:
-
Steve...does someone make PTFE lined throttle cables for MG? The now-OEM BMW Mobile Tradition cables are PTFE lined and makes a big difference.
Bought my PTFE lined throttle cables from here, just fill in the drop down menus: https://www.venhill.co.uk/
Go here for lighter throttle springs, about half way down, take your pick of weak, medium (and strong) ones:
https://www.dellorto.co.uk/product-category/dellorto-motorcycle-carburettors-parts/carburettor-parts/phf-parts/
-
:azn: :azn: :tongue: :tongue: :cheesy: :cheesy: :shocked: :azn: :kiss: :grin:
https://vimeo.com/371931430
SHE RUNS!
BUT - the clutch won't disengage at all! Maybe the plate is fused to flywheel? How to break free...
-
Great bike,you will really enjoy it once it's sorted. One thing i noticed is that the carbs seem to be on the opposite side compared to mine,not that it would make difference other than a slighty straiter pull on the cable.
-
I knew that was wrong but somehow brainfreeze set in after sooooo much work. Thanks for pointing out! I thought I was careful to keep the carb parts all paired when rebuilding, couldn't figure out why they would have set them up this way with the cables routing to the outside - seemed totally wrong. Hah, silly! :tongue: Thanks for pointing out!
-
The dual setup Dellorto carbs have a D or S stamped next to the size. D is for destra (right), S is for sinistra (left)
-
:whip2:][ftp] (ftp://[ftp)[/ftp]
The dual setup Dellorto carbs have a D or S stamped next to the size. D is for destra (right), S is for sinistra (left)
Or you could look at the idle and mixture screws - that's the main difference between a left and right side carb. They need to be accessible.
-
Uhhh, I did not get that wrong!!! How would one sync carbs hah. I just fliped the tops while they were on the bench for a month. Fixing now...
Familiar with D/S from old Fellini films. ;)