Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: LowRyter on November 15, 2019, 06:55:19 PM
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Really enjoyed it. Brings back memories of my youth. Of course it's still a tear jerker but it's funny and true to the story. No CG crap, real driving. Damon gets the voice pretty close even though he doesn't look a lot like Carrol but seems to get "him". Bales is just great.
The only nit is that some of the other cars are perhaps not quite right regarding the right season or year.
See it you're a fan.
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Its on my list and showing at our local Imax as well as a couple regular theaters. Looks like it should be seen on the big screen.
Pete
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My first HO race car was a GT40. Always thought they were a bad ass car.If I hit the lottery I would buy a 2005 GT40. Going to try to see it in the theater this weekend.
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Sue Ellen and I went to see the film last night. Wow, absolutely visceral in the display of power of the GT-40s and actually all machines.
Love the flick, great story.
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A group of us are going next week...a must see for our generation!! :thumb: :cool: :wink: :smiley:
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There was little about the Cobra FIA program. The movie was largely about Shelby and the GT40. At the beginning there was some SCCA racing with the Cobras. In fact, when Lee Iacocca came to Shelby to discuss LeMans, Shelby was thinking that Ford wanted to collect on the Ford Cobra engines. The movie perhaps works better for folks that know the larger story. The Daytona Coupes were only in the background, no mention about them racing at LeMans and finishing 4th in 1964 before Shelby took on the GT40 (the English GT40s DNF'd).
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It may be a feel-good movie as long as you don't look too close.
the repro GT40s in the movie are reportedly running small block Chevrolet engines instead of real Ford engines. This has been under discussion for a while on a Ford forum that I've been on for years. Not a good pr move imho or that of other serious Ford fans. The Ferraris probably aren't running original Ferrari engines either, but the movie isn't celebrating their results.
Kinda like doing a movie about Dr John starring a CX500-engined versions of his bikes...
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Probably kinda hard to find Holman & Moody side oiler 427 Ford engines these days .
Dusty
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I’m really looking forward to seeing this movie.
But I’m confused. Who should I be rooting for?
On the one hand, I’m a red-blooded ‘Mercian who lives in freaking Texas, just like Carroll. I don’t need a bunch of prissy furriners with weird accents who don’t eat chili messing around with ‘Merican stuff cause because then, well, they deserve a boot in their a**.
On the other hand, I’m totally gaga for Italian Street machines like Moto Guzzi. Ducati. And not so much Harley.
So does that mean . . . Ferrari is my team?
Help.
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Probably kinda hard to find Holman & Moody side oiler 427 Ford engines these days .
Dusty
Any FE series engine, which are all based upon the same basic architecture and challenging for most people to identify from the outside, would still be a far more equitable substitute. Except for the heads of factory-installed main bearing cap cross bolts (3 per side) visible along the skirt just above oil pan rail, there's virtually no consistent way to externally identify a 427 short block from any other FE. Many smaller displacement 66-67 blocks had side oiler passages that weren't drilled and even had 66 427 cast on the rear of the block, even though they were only a 352 or 390.
Even a plain 390 in a replica GT40 would be fast enough for anything needed in the movie. All the dress up goodies that fit a 427 will fit a 390. They're still plenty of them around and lots of us serious FE fans, including this one who keeps his two Guzzis parked next to his original 428 red-on-red 1967 Galaxie 500...
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Any FE series engine, which are all based upon the same basic architecture and challenging for most people to identify from the outside, would still be a far more equitable substitute. Except for the heads of factory-installed main bearing cap cross bolts (3 per side) visible along the skirt just above oil pan rail, there's virtually no consistent way to externally identify a 427 short block from any other FE. Many smaller displacement 66-67 blocks had side oiler passages that weren't drilled and even had 66 427 cast on the rear of the block, even though they were only a 352 or 390.
Even a plain 390 in a replica GT40 would be fast enough for anything needed in the movie. All the dress up goodies that fit a 427 will fit a 390. They're still plenty of them around and lots of us serious FE fans, including this one who keeps his two Guzzis parked next to his original 428 red-on-red 1967 Galaxie 500...
Then what you need is a documentary , not a Hollywood movie . The documentary would also need to point out that Shelby spent more time in court suing someone or getting sued than doing anything else beginning not long after the success at Lemans . Tricky thing this accuracy thing .
Dusty
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It may be a feel-good movie as long as you don't look too close.
the repro GT40s in the movie are reportedly running small block Chevrolet engines instead of real Ford engines. This has been under discussion for a while on a Ford forum that I've been on for years. Not a good pr move imho or that of other serious Ford fans. The Ferraris probably aren't running original Ferrari engines either, but the movie isn't celebrating their results.
Kinda like doing a movie about Dr John starring a CX500-engined versions of his bikes...
The engine shots were legit. Insofar as the racing scenes, the sound is dubbed realistically. Pretty sure that all the Fords were running Ford small block 347 as on the Superformance movie replicas mentioned. Would guess the other replicas could be running anything.
Again there was mixing and matching of cars that weren't available for the dates of events. I suppose there were only so many cars available for filming.
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Then what you need is a documentary , not a Hollywood movie . The documentary would also need to point out that Shelby spent more time in court suing someone or getting sued than doing anything else beginning not long after the success at Lemans . Tricky thing this accuracy thing .
Dusty
Shel's slipperiness is featured quite a bit in the movie. They didn't shy away from that. In one scene, he sold the same car to three different customers.
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Any FE series engine, which are all based upon the same basic architecture and challenging for most people to identify from the outside, would still be a far more equitable substitute. Except for the heads of factory-installed main bearing cap cross bolts (3 per side) visible along the skirt just above oil pan rail, there's virtually no consistent way to externally identify a 427 short block from any other FE. Many smaller displacement 66-67 blocks had side oiler passages that weren't drilled and even had 66 427 cast on the rear of the block, even though they were only a 352 or 390.
Even a plain 390 in a replica GT40 would be fast enough for anything needed in the movie. All the dress up goodies that fit a 427 will fit a 390. They're still plenty of them around and lots of us serious FE fans, including this one who keeps his two Guzzis parked next to his original 428 red-on-red 1967 Galaxie 500...
The GT40 Mk II big block 427 was a detuned NASCAR engine with dry sump and aluminum heads. The idea was to run at lower RPMs to run 24hrs. The Mk II couldn't handle more power due to limitations on brakes and it was already faster than the competition.
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Going to see it as I've been Ford from birth. Hope Eric Broadley is mentioned.
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Ford was involved in all motorsports at that time, trying to dominate some classes of drag racing and Nascar and then to road racing...Ferrari was a very small company with a racing budget at that time of less than $350,000..Ford was the second largest vehicle manufacturer in the US and probably the world...A story of how massive money can bring success...
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Like I said, put a CX500 in Dr John's movie bike. No biggie. The only people that would grumble will be the serious Guzzi fans.
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The GT40 Mk II big block 427 was a detuned NASCAR engine with dry sump and aluminum heads. The idea was to run at lower RPMs to run 24hrs. The Mk II couldn't handle more power due to limitations on brakes and it was already faster than the competition.
Yup, these early SK alloy Medium Riser heads were known for porosity issues with the castings. There were some around here via local NASCAR channels. I always wanted a set for my old 428 Galaxie when I was a kid, but was advised against using a set on my car. Now there's a variety of modern aluminum heads for the engines, including some contemporary Dove reissue castings of the old SK with better metallurgy.
Lots of racing stuff here in Spartanburg but the parts that used to be common (and cheap) aren't anymore. So I've built a repro Holman Moody-style cowl plenum air cleaner for my Galaxie. That whole project was on the front burner until this V700 came home..
(https://i.ibb.co/16hfGy7/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/16hfGy7)
(https://i.ibb.co/Kwsb2Pn/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kwsb2Pn)
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Na$car heads aren't well suited for the street as they are made to flow best at high rpm and a narrow rpm range. And the cams are the same. I fact, last I was told you can't get your hands on a na$car cam. That tech is kept close to the vest.
I saw an article on the making of the movie. It showed the cars go I g round the track with all the camera equipment attached. They might have been going 30 mph.
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Na$car heads aren't well suited for the street as they are made to flow best at high rpm and a narrow rpm range. And the cams are the same. I fact, last I was told you can't get your hands on a na$car cam. That tech is kept close to the vest.
I saw an article on the making of the movie. It showed the cars going round the track with all the camera equipment attached. They might have been going 30 mph.
Yep , a Hollywood movie . Does anyone think the *Indian* used in the movie about Burt Monro was actually the real bike he rode , or that the rider went almost 200 MPH ? Fact is , with the exception of The Texas Turnip , most folks are not anywhere near as colorful as portrayed in movies .
Dusty
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en·ter·tain·ment
/ˌen(t)ərˈtānmənt/
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noun
the action of providing or being provided with amusement or enjoyment.
"everyone just sits in front of the TV for entertainment"
Similar:
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pleasure
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an event, performance, or activity designed to entertain others.
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the action of receiving a guest or guests and providing them with food and drink.
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Na$car heads aren't well suited for the street as they are made to flow best at high rpm and a narrow rpm range. And the cams are the same. I fact, last I was told you can't get your hands on a na$car cam. That tech is kept close to the vest.
I saw an article on the making of the movie. It showed the cars go I g round the track with all the camera equipment attached. They might have been going 30 mph.
Most FE heads are configured to Low Riser, Medium Riser and High Riser intake port architecture. The taller the port, the higher the flow & typical performance as rpm increases. Drag racing and NASCAR engines were most often dedicate high rpm engines, which is High Riser territory. Road course engines needed more mid range, so are more typically Medium Riser heads. medium riser heads were used on the factory-built 427 Ford street cars from 65-67. 63 1/2 & 64 427 street car engines were Low Risers. this same architecture was employed for the 428CJ (with similar large valves) as well as plain jane street FEs in other displacements (used smaller valves) because they provide lower rpm benefit.
High Risers were available in the early years for racing use but were unsuitable for the street, hence the development and release of the Medium Riser heads for the 1965 model year. They are a performance improvement over the Low Riser heads without the extremes of High Risers. Tunnel Port and SOHC top ends are different than LR, MR and HR for dedicated high performance use comparable to the HR heads.
30-40 yrs ago, there weren't many options for aluminum heads for an FE. Used Factory parts were the most affordable and Medium Riser heads with an appropriate factory intake are fine for street use.
Many things may be kept under wraps about NASCAR secrets in the larger population, but it's different if you are in the right area and know the right people. 50 yrs on, many of the "secrets" aren't very secret anymore.
Right now, NASCAR corporate is moving to standardize the engines used by everyone. Pay for & use their engines or don't race. Sorta like what's under the hood isn't the point, no matter the badge on the hood. It's just entertainment.
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Most FE heads are configured to Low Riser, Medium Riser and High Riser intake port architecture. The taller the port, the higher the flow & typical performance as rpm increases. Drag racing and NASCAR engines were most often dedicate high rpm engines, which is High Riser territory. Road course engines needed more mid range, so are more typically Medium Riser heads. medium riser heads were used on the factory-built 427 Ford street cars from 65-67. 63 1/2 & 64 427 street car engines were Low Risers. this same architecture was employed for the 428CJ (with similar large valves) as well as plain jane street FEs in other displacements (used smaller valves) because they provide lower rpm benefit.
High Risers were available in the early years for racing use but were unsuitable for the street, hence the development and release of the Medium Riser heads for the 1965 model year. They are a performance improvement over the Low Riser heads without the extremes of High Risers. Tunnel Port and SOHC top ends are different than LR, MR and HR for dedicated high performance use comparable to the HR heads.
30-40 yrs ago, there weren't many options for aluminum heads for an FE. Used Factory parts were the most affordable and Medium Riser heads with an appropriate factory intake are fine for street use.
Many things may be kept under wraps about NASCAR secrets in the larger population, but it's different if you are in the right area and know the right people. 50 yrs on, many of the "secrets" aren't very secret anymore.
Right now, NASCAR corporate is moving to standardize the engines used by everyone. Pay for & use their engines or don't race. Sorta like what's under the hood isn't the point, no matter the badge on the hood. It's just entertainment.
With Ford and Mopar pouring millions into Nascar back then it was also entertainment..GM was pretending not to spend money but it came out the back door but less of it.
Away from the big bucks of Nascar super speedways and SS drag classes, Chevy was almost completley dominated all drag and circle track racing...Especially for the privateers.....
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Going to see it as I've been Ford from birth. Hope Eric Broadley is mentioned.
You mean the English guy that delivers the cars? No, not mentioned by name.
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Ford was involved in all motorsports at that time, trying to dominate some classes of drag racing and Nascar and then to road racing...Ferrari was a very small company with a racing budget at that time of less than $350,000..Ford was the second largest vehicle manufacturer in the US and probably the world...A story of how massive money can bring success...
According to the movie, Lee Iacocca pitched that international racing would appeal to the younger crowd. He told the "Deuce" that Ferrari was the most famous car builder in the world and not Ford. Ford then tried to buy Ferrari which is a well known story and part of the movie.
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Yup, these early SK alloy Medium Riser heads were known for porosity issues with the castings. There were some around here via local NASCAR channels. I always wanted a set for my old 428 Galaxie when I was a kid, but was advised against using a set on my car. Now there's a variety of modern aluminum heads for the engines, including some contemporary Dove reissue castings of the old SK with better metallurgy.
Lots of racing stuff here in Spartanburg but the parts that used to be common (and cheap) aren't anymore. So I've built a repro Holman Moody-style cowl plenum air cleaner for my Galaxie. That whole project was on the front burner until this V700 came home..
(https://i.ibb.co/16hfGy7/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/16hfGy7)
(https://i.ibb.co/Kwsb2Pn/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kwsb2Pn)
Not to get too far into it. The GT40 Mk II aluminum heads were done solely to keep the weight down. Weight and brakes were the achilles heel for the car. Those heads had smaller valves than the NASCAR engine and lower compression. It was meant to run at 6k rpms but could go to 7k. Most of this was also mentioned in the movie.
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Not to get too far into it. The GT40 Mk II aluminum heads were done solely to keep the weight down. Weight and brakes were the achilles heel for the car. Those heads had smaller valves than the NASCAR engine and lower compression. It was meant to run at 6k rpms but could go to 7k. Most of this was also mentioned in the movie.
That's why I wanted a pair on my heavy Galaxie with a 428.
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Seen it today-a very good movie! In 67 the only thing I wanted was a dirt bike.The ins and outs of sports cars and sport car racing was totally foreign to me. This movie was educational and entertaining as well for me. I will google some of the history and see how close the movie was to reality. I have to laugh,the villain isn't Enzo in the movie. What a suck up!
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FWIW, THE Hagerty article sheds some light on the facts behind the LeMans story, but some folks may call them "alternate facts' :laugh:
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/11/15/real-story-behind-ford-v-ferrari?utm_source=SFMC&utm_medium=email&utm_content=19_November_16_Weekend_News
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Like at least 2 others here I had GT40 models. The indoor electric track and a 2 stroke powered outdoor RC version. Over time I've had one each of every other year Ford 3 window coupe, beginning in '34, ending when they only made 5 window versions. I copied Pan American road racers in full scale. 48 Merc, 53? Lincoln.
Some may recall Walter Hansgen, who drove for Roger Penske. Walt and I were good friends through the 50's until his death. Practice accident w/a GT40, racing in Europe. R3~
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Seen it today-a very good movie! In 67 the only thing I wanted was a dirt bike.The ins and outs of sports cars and sport car racing was totally foreign to me. This movie was educational and entertaining as well for me. I will google some of the history and see how close the movie was to reality. I have to laugh,the villain isn't Enzo in the movie. What a suck up!
that tip of the hat to Ken Miles was pretty classy from il Commendatore.
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I take any Hagerty article with a grain of salt. They are just plain wrong to often to count.
I hated having to remove all of the push rods when swapping intakes on an FE block. My experience comes from 352 and 390 variants.
If it's not a real gt 40 and it doesn't belong to me, then pop in a 225 slant 6 for all I care.
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that tip of the hat to Ken Miles was pretty classy from il Commendatore.
If it actually happened .
Dusty
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I take any Hagerty article with a grain of salt. They are just plain wrong to often to count.
I hated having to remove all of the push rods when swapping intakes on an FE block. My experience comes from 352 and 390 variants.
If it's not a real gt 40 and it doesn't belong to me, then pop in a 225 slant 6 for all I care.
Now just hold on a bit Turin, the 225 slant 6 is Mopar and a darn beast of a little engine;)
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If it actually happened .
Dusty
we were talking about the movie.
It was a pretty good part when Enzo was leading those Fords guys on to sell his company while having Fiat bid up the sell price at the same time. Then he called Henry II all kinds of names, like 'the Second".
They really never got into the animosity that Shel had for old man Enzo. I was pretty disappointed the Cobra vs Ferrari GT Championship was not even mentioned or alluded to. And Miles did run the LeMans races and was never left home. The movie took some some liberties.
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According to the movie, Lee Iacocca pitched that international racing would appeal to the younger crowd. He told the "Deuce" that Ferrari was the most famous car builder in the world and not Ford. Ford then tried to buy Ferrari which is a well known story and part of the movie.
My point was that in the 60's Ford was spending a lot of money into all motorsports , the GT 40 was part of it and not the only part...
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I have not seen the movie yet. Currently I prepare myself with a second reading of A. J. Baime's book "Go Like Hell".
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Last night I took the family to see the movie at the theater, a rare event for me as it involves spending money. My two teenagers not actually grumbling but doing it cos 'Dad wants to'
We all enjoyed the movie, it was a good story, well shot with tension & excitement. The bad guys are not who you think they are going to be.
The car scenes were good, the surround sound in the theater really conveying the effect of cars passing, tires screeching & chirping, engines roaring , cabins shaking & rattling.
I felt it was a good night out. :thumb:
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I liked the scene with Deuce riding with Carrol.
The commercials imply that he was crying out of fear, instead he was crying out of pride and deference to his father and grandfather.
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Let me remind everyone , these are actors reciting lines written by a screenwriter . This might be a wonderful bit of entertainment , but it isn't history .
Dusty
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Let me remind everyone , these are actors reciting lines written by a screenwriter . This might be a wonderful bit of entertainment , but it isn't history .
Dusty
true. I just don't know why you have to say that.
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true. I just don't know why you have to say that.
Because we keep hearing the actors referred to as the actual people . There have been too many cases of movies being accepted as real history , I've heard one too many times over the last 45 years that some historical figure said or did something because a screenwriter put in in a script .
Dusty
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Not too much screen time given to Ferrari or its legacy. Maybe it should just be named "Ford vs. Some Foreign Job".
Unfortunately, GT40 development and deployment meant the shunting aside and stagnation of the Cobra Daytona Coupe, a rather fantastic machine in its own right.
And WHY does Hollywood think all a driver has to do to go faster is slam the gearbox and stomp on the accelerator pedal??
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Not too much screen time given to Ferrari or its legacy. Maybe it should just be named "Ford vs. Some Foreign Job".
Unfortunately, GT40 development and deployment meant the shunting aside and stagnation of the Cobra Daytona Coupe, a rather fantastic machine in its own right.
And WHY does Hollywood think all a driver has to do to go faster is slam the gearbox and stomp on the accelerator pedal??
Because Hollywood makes films for mass appeal and not the tiny minority that sees the flaws......It's all about the drama... Just enjoy the movie for what it is, good entertainment...
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Because we keep hearing the actors referred to as the actual people . There have been to many cases of movies being accepted as real history , I've heard one too many times over the last 45 years that some historical figure said or did something because a screenwriter put in in a script .
Dusty
We all know it's only a movie. If you don't want to see it or don't like the characters portrayed in it, fine. But no one is saying there ever was a movie that was a "true story" to the final detail. Movies can still be entertaining and educational. This one has been picked apart here and elsewhere, myself included. It was still a good flick.
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Not too much screen time given to Ferrari or its legacy. Maybe it should just be named "Ford vs. Some Foreign Job".
Unfortunately, GT40 development and deployment meant the shunting aside and stagnation of the Cobra Daytona Coupe, a rather fantastic machine in its own right.
And WHY does Hollywood think all a driver has to do to go faster is slam the gearbox and stomp on the accelerator pedal??
I was disappointed that none of the FIA Cobra and Daytona Coupe story was told. In fact, the Coupes were in background of the garage in California when Miles was listening to the LeMans race on the radio -a race he actually historically competed in BTW.
The later point about stabbing accelerator and shifter is just a typical Hollywood device to convey drama but it does look stupid.
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As an aside, I read the book The World's Fastest Indian. I was looking forward to the movie.They took an awful lot of liberties in the movie. It kind of made Burt look like a huge risk taker with corner cutting. But there were legitimate reasons why he did what he did. As an example the movie made it look like he used plowshares to make parts because he couldn't afford new steel when in fact he used the plowshares because of the high quality steel and readily available. A great book by the way, I should read it again.
kk
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Quote from: LowRyter on Today at 09:38:41 AM
true. I just don't know why you have to say that.
Because we keep hearing the actors referred to as the actual people . There have been to many cases of movies being accepted as real history , I've heard one too many times over the last 45 years that some historical figure said or did something because a screenwriter put in in a script . (http://Quote from: LowRyter on Today at 09:38:41 AM
true. I just don't know why you have to say that.
Because we keep hearing the actors referred to as the actual people . There have been too many cases of movies being accepted as real history , I've heard one too many times over the last 45 years that some historical figure said or did something because a screenwriter put in in a script .)
All to true. Unfortunately the mass public doesn't seem to read anymore, and gets their info from entertainment based media sources. I probably won't enjoy the movie because I'm a stickler for the facts. The History Channel ( before it became the channel of Ancient astronauts, garbage picking, and Island landscape destruction) had a series called History VS. Hollywood. I wish they would bring that back. It boggles the mind how screenwriters are allowed to embellish a story, or leave out context for the sake of entertainment.
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As an aside, I read the book The World's Fastest Indian. I was looking forward to the movie.They took an awful lot of liberties in the movie. It kind of made Burt look like a huge risk taker with corner cutting. But there were legitimate reasons why he did what he did. As an example the movie made it look like he used plowshares to make parts because he couldn't afford new steel when in fact he used the plowshares because of the high quality steel and readily available. A great book by the way, I should read it again.
kk
If you get the DVD, you'll also get a copy of the documentary that movie producer made when he younger. You'll note many differences in the movie and the actual events. But it still a great movie but whether it was a "true story" or not- it is a matter of defining "truth".
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I am currently raising two teenagers, one is a voracious reader with an almost photographic memory. Watching movie versions of books she has read is difficult over the noise of grinding teeth & protests of 'that's not in the book'. :rolleyes:
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To anyone who complains and whinges about it I would like to ask where your 100% factual documentary is? I'd like to see it.
RCR in Detroit built 28 of the GT40s used in the movie as well as some of the other cars.
http://race-car-replicas.com/ford-vs-ferrari-project
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To anyone who complains and whinges about it I would like to ask where your 100% factual documentary is? I'd like to see it.
RCR in Detroit built 28 of the GT40s used in the movie as well as some of the other cars.
http://race-car-replicas.com/ford-vs-ferrari-project
The 24 Hour War is pretty good , heck , even the doc made by the guy that made the new movie isn't bad .
Dusty
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The Wizard of Oz was always my favorite documentary. Man, those flying monkeys :wink:
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The 24 Hour War is pretty good , heck , even the doc made by the guy that made the new movie isn't bad .
Dusty
I have to see that next.
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The Wizard of Oz was always my favorite documentary. Man, those flying monkeys :wink:
Ha!
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We all know it's only a movie. If you don't want to see it or don't like the characters portrayed in it, fine. But no one is saying there ever was a movie that was a "true story" to the final detail. Movies can still be entertaining and educational. This one has been picked apart here and elsewhere, myself included. It was still a good flick.
However, it does explain Dusty's fascination with South Park :grin:
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Saw it this weekend and really enjoyed it.
As someone said, not much time paid to the Ferrari side and Enzo doesn't come of particularly well. Unlike HR2, he'd actually been a driver at one point tho!
Great story here: https://www.motorwebmuseum.it/en/places/modena/the-history-of-the-prancing-horse/ (https://www.motorwebmuseum.it/en/places/modena/the-history-of-the-prancing-horse/)
Franceso Barracs'a Spad III is hanging in the Venice Airport.
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Yeah , well , close encounters of the third kind wasn't a documentary either , and yet ...
Dusty
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Yeah , well , close encounters of the third kind wasn't a documentary either , and yet ...
Dusty
Here ya go, a real documentary.
https://www.netflix.com/title/81083891
Actually I saw it. I find it fascinating.
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Ford v Ferrari is a "chick flick"..... Yes it is,at least if your chick is a gearhead like my wife is! She absolutely loved it! Said the sound and "feel" of the cars made her feel like she was in the drivers seat. She said she had never felt that in a movie before.
we did see it in a new theatre that opened up in Tucson,and has their own big screen version of IMAX, I think they call it XD or something. You sure can feel the sounds in your chest, without it being excessively loud for your ears.
It was a long movie, but a good one! :thumb:
Rick.
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Here ya go, a real documentary.
https://www.netflix.com/title/81083891
Actually I saw it. I find it fascinating.
You are aware that Lazar ran a brothel and has no education as an engineer or scientist , right ?
Dusty
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Ford v Ferrari is a "chick flick"..... Yes it is,at least if your chick is a gearhead like my wife is! She absolutely loved it!
The two wives with us liked it too. Helps open the door for future "guy" movies! :wink:
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You are aware that Lazar ran a brothel and has no education as an engineer or scientist , right ?
Dusty
You're right about the brothel and very likely wrong about the rest. See the documentary you will likely agree. All three issues are in the documentary. Actually I am pretty certain about the last two issues and he's open about the brothel.
And the controversy only makes his case stronger. Really.
BTW- I heard a similar story from someone from the base 5 years before I heard of Lazar. I didn't believe it then. If it isn't true, it's one hell of a hoax for what reason I don't know. Certainly not to cover stealth or spy planes at the time it all happened.
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Maybe I thought I saw it.At the end when Ken Miles dies testing the car they pan up to the sky.Did one of the clouds look like a Chevrolet bow tie.I thought I saw that, but the camera never pans back to the sky again.
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Maybe I thought I saw it.At the end when Ken Miles dies testing the car they pan up to the sky.Did one of the clouds look like a Chevrolet bow tie.I thought I saw that, but the camera never pans back to the sky again.
fake news
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I'm not being funny,just thought I saw it. Probably a slight resemblance and I took it differently.Or maybe GM sabotaged the car. Yeah, that's the ticket.
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The Wizard of Oz was always my favorite documentary. Man, those flying monkeys :wink:
John, there is something wrong with your brain that I really enjoy.
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John, there is something wrong with your brain that I really enjoy.
:laugh:
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John, there is something wrong with your brain that I really enjoy.
You're easily amused.
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You're easily amused.
Were you born without a sense of humor, or was it surgically removed???
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Were you born without a sense of humor, or was it surgically removed???
I'll admit that it might take some intellectual motivation to catch my humor. It might be over your head.
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Went to see "Ford vs. Ferrari" yesterday. I enjoyed it and 2 1/2 hours of movie had passed before I noticed how long a film it really was. My favorite part was when Shelby took Henry Ford II for a ride in the GT40. I can imagine that most people would react in much the same way as Ford did when riding in such a powerful race car with a professional driver at the wheel. :grin:
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I'll admit that it might take some intellectual motivation to catch my humor. It might be over your head.
What a guy! THANKS!!
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What a guy! THANKS!!
aw shucks
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Yep , a Hollywood movie . Does anyone think the *Indian* used in the movie about Burt Monro was actually the real bike he rode , or that the rider went almost 200 MPH ? Fact is , with the exception of The Texas Turnip , most folks are not anywhere near as colorful as portrayed in movies .
Dusty
The "Indian" was built by the Britten Motorcycle Co. It was/is down in Invercargill in Hayes Hardware shop (a must see if you are ever down that way while touring NZ :thumb:), along with quite a few other classic collectibles. The uncertainty is because the Sturgess collection of motorcycles is also now down in Invercargill, and as I have yet to see that I can't comment as to whether it has shifted house. There was a museum in Queenstown that I have been to that had the original, but I think that has closed down.
It has a very similar look to the real thing; I suspect that Britten's metal technology was a bit better than Burt's! :grin:
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British chassis + Ford heavy metal = Le Mans winner. Plus good old New Zealand Bruce's driving skills. Many years ago I read a book on the GT40 and the thing was they were race tools, and hard to believe they were stacked one on top of another when thier time had passed. The road cars were a homologation afterthought. Basic, sparse, brutal, impractical.
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I read somewhere that they had to swap fuel tanks every 10 minutes to keep the weight even. How many gallons to the mile did it do? :grin:
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When you think about, Ferrari was racing many years before Ford, and is still racing...The reality is, no matter how spectacular, Ford was a just a flash of light in comparison...
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When you think about, Ferrari was racing many years before Ford, and is still racing...The reality is, no matter how spectacular, Ford was a just a flash of light in comparison...
Ferrari never won another LeMans race and stopped competing there after Ford won.
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When you think about, Ferrari was racing many years before Ford, and is still racing...The reality is, no matter how spectacular, Ford was a just a flash of light in comparison...
Enzo Ferrari began racing as a driver in 1919 for CMN. He joined ALFA Romeo in 1920, and was associated with ALFA in various capacities through 1939. The car company bearing his name dates to 1947.
Henry Ford's racing career dates to 1901 and his win at a race in Grosse Point Michigan of a 10-lap race on a 1-mile track. There were four GT cars at LeMans in 2016, finishing 1-3-4-10. So, Ford's very successful racing history spans more than a century.
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Ferrari never won another LeMans race and stopped competing there after Ford won.
Ferrari had been more interested in f1 than sports cars for years , and that is where there focus has been for the last 50 years .
Dusty
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Ferrari had been more interested in f1 than sports cars for years , and that is where there focus has been for the last 50 years .
Dusty
Yes, while Ford's focus (Haha) has mostly been with NASCAR during the same time.
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Enzo Ferrari began racing as a driver in 1919 for CMN. He joined ALFA Romeo in 1920, and was associated with ALFA in various capacities through 1939. The car company bearing his name dates to 1947.
Henry Ford's racing career dates to 1901 and his win at a race in Grosse Point Michigan of a 10-lap race on a 1-mile track. There were four GT cars at LeMans in 2016, finishing 1-3-4-10. So, Ford's very successful racing history spans more than a century.
Name Ford factory race cars from 1901 to the early 60's...If you say 1957 Nacar you are correct....Other than that????
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Ferrari had been more interested in f1 than sports cars for years , and that is where there focus has been for the last 50 years .
Dusty
Good point. During the F1 "Kit Car" era 1966-1985, the Ford Cosworth DFV V8 won more races in F1 competition than any other engine before or since.
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I just saw the movie "Midway". Great movie, I won't go into whether it's a true story but it's got many of the schoolbook facts right.
The CG was the best I've ever seen. It looked very real. I think they tried to replicate a lot of stock documentary footage and recreated it. The result was quite realistic. There is also a scene with director John Ford filming the actual battle. Don't get pissed that Woody Harrelson play Adm Nimitz, he's good.
I thought it was really good. It's mostly a remake but done quite well. I thought it was as good as the "Ford" movie that started this thread.
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Good point. During the F1 "Kit Car" era 1966-1985, the Ford Cosworth DFV V8 won more races in F1 competition than any other engine before or since.
Yeah , not really a Ford .
Ferrari is the only constructor in f1 that builds a complete package .
Dusty
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Yeah , not really a Ford .
Ferrari is the only constructor in f1 that builds a complete package .
Dusty
So has Mercedes since 2010. But they did buy themselves in by purchasing Illmor and Sauber.
Ferrari has had some strong associations with Dallara as well.
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FvF kicked Mr Rogers butt this weekend at the theaters. They say there is some Oscar buzz with this movie
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I just saw the movie "Midway". Great movie, I won't go into whether it's a true story but it's got many of the schoolbook facts right.
The CG was the best I've ever seen. It looked very real. I think they tried to replicate a lot of stock documentary footage and recreated it. The result was quite realistic. There is also a scene with director John Ford filming the actual battle. Don't get pissed that Woody Harrelson play Adm Nimitz, he's good.
I thought it was really good. It's mostly a remake but done quite well. I thought it was as good as the "Ford" movie that started this thread.
I don't know how it could be better than the 1976 Midway film, in which they flew actual WWII aircraft and CGI didn't exist...
Well, hopefully the 2019 version left out "Captain Garth". LOL!
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Ferrari never won another LeMans race and stopped competing there after Ford won.
And the number of GP races won by Ford using nearly all components built by Ford itself?
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I don't know how it could be better than the 1976 Midway film, in which they flew actual WWII aircraft and CGI didn't exist...
Well, hopefully the 2019 version left out "Captain Garth". LOL!
well let me tell ya. The '76 film was black and white, it consisted largely of WWII stock film with some acting in between the combat scenes. That's probably why the '76 movie was made in black & white. Some of the Midway battle was filmed by John Ford in 1942, ironically he's a character in the new movie doing exactly that.
For the new film, the CG essentially took that stock film and made it realistic to the eye and in color. This was one of the first films I can remember where the CG appeared real without that video game "look" to it. The plot is probably no better or worse that the '76 movie. It's a Cliff Notes version of the prewar, Pearl Harbor, Doolittle, Coral Sea and Midway. This new one also followed some historical Navy men of several ranks. All of it visually more realistic than the earlier movie. I thought it was quite good, I liked it better than the earlier movie, although it's still one of my favorites.
I recently saw the "Good Liar", thought it was a good movie. You can guess there is a twist but you won't guess what the twist is.
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I haven't seen the movie yet, but how does it measure up against 'Speed'? That's been my favorite Racing Movie.
The golden age of Formula One.
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You mean "Rush", about Lauda and Hunt? Much better. "Rush" strayed very far from the truth in the relationship, and the racing scenes to me lacked anything like the drama of the real deal (though the use of real period cars in some static grid shots were good).
Ford/Ferrari just worked better. Remarkably I think my wife liked it more than I did, though apparently the broad appeal includes both kinds of people!
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You mean "Rush", about Lauda and Hunt? Much better. "Rush" strayed very far from the truth in the relationship, and the racing scenes to me lacked anything like the drama of the real deal (though the use of real period cars in some static grid shots were good).
Ford/Ferrari just worked better. Remarkably I think my wife liked it more than I did, though apparently the broad appeal includes both kinds of people!
"Rush" was a better movie imo. Rush was certainly more historically accurate (but not totally). Rush also had many of the actual race cars in the movie whereas as FvF had only replicas. I'll go with Rush as the better one.
OTOH, my favorite "race" movie was "The World's Fastest Indian". It's not historically accurate but it's a great movie and the true to life documentary is included with the DVD.
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Netflix has a similar movie...more of a documentary...as Ford vs Ferrari. Check out 24 Hour War.
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As far as documentaries go-thee is one currently on Tubi that I watched many years ago. This version is called "The Quick and the Dead" and it is narrated by Stacy Keach. Difficult to watch.
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well let me tell ya. The '76 film was black and white,
John,
The 1976 Midway was a Technicolor movie with some black & white combat photography and some footage from previous war films. But was filmed on the USS Lexington and used some CAF aircraft. Not a highmark of Hollywood film making, but the CGI of modern movies leaves me a little cold.
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John,
The 1976 Midway was a Technicolor movie with some black & white combat photography and some footage from previous war films. But was filmed on the USS Lexington and used some CAF aircraft. Not a highmark of Hollywood film making, but the CGI of modern movies leaves me a little cold.
Yes, you're right. I was thinking of In Harm's Way. I am not a fan of CGI either and that's why I said that it was exceptional in this one.
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I've seen good CGI so it really bothers me when a movie makes it look like a video game. The trailer I saw for the Midway movie didn't encourage me.
I've read many accounts of the battle, so I don't suppose I need to see another.
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well there's that
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I saw the movie and thought it was thoroughly entertaining. I’d watch it again and have recommended it to others.
Yes, it has a fair bit of Hollywood hookum. For example, I don’t think fading brakes glow visibly orange down a straightaway in a pouring rainstorm. But hey, it’s Hollywood.
Serious question. Was Enzo Ferrari really such a dickazoid as depicted in the movie?
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I questioned the glowing because I wasn't sure they did glow there, but the fading part in period was due to overheating so maybe they just took a bit of liberty to show that they were hot.
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I remember reading that Enzo remained aloof and disconnected from his drivers. He did not want to get emotionally attached because he realized there was a strong probability that they could lose their life racing one of his cars. It was the era of many fatalities in motor sports.
Regarding the movie. I preferred Rush and LeMans over Ford v Ferrari. The beginning of LeMans goes for something like 10 minutes before the first word of dialogue is spoken. Risky in the world of movie making, but for me was perfect. The early morning scenes of fans waking up, crawling from their tents, interlaced with McQueen driving the 911 to the track really set the tone. At the start of the race, when he is strapped in and all the activity fades away to just his heartbeat and total focus before the flag drops, and then it is go time. Perfect. Without getting specific because I don't want to spoil any content for people yet to see the movie, I thought the acting in F v F was melodramatic, completely over the top, and just bad. I won't go into an endless list of technical details that were just laughable because I realize it is Hollywood, and the point is to entertain. I get it, it is not a documentary. Enzo Ferrari never attended the LeMans race. Take it from there.
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Agree that Rush was a better movie. LeMans, not so much- no real plot or story.
Those GT40 did have bright red glowing rotors. I remember a few spectacular photos from the time.
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I saw the movie and thought it was thoroughly entertaining. I’d watch it again and have recommended it to others.
Yes, it has a fair bit of Hollywood hookum. For example, I don’t think fading brakes glow visibly orange down a straightaway in a pouring rainstorm. But hey, it’s Hollywood.
Serious question. Was Enzo Ferrari really such a dickazoid as depicted in the movie?
The glowing brakes were accurate. There are a number of period photographs showing the Fords' brake rotors glowing just like they are depicted in the film.
Is the movie 100% historically accurate? No. But it is a great racing movie, in the same vein as "The World's Fastest Indian", in that it nails the period racing ethos, dead on.
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Really enjoyed it. Brings back memories of my youth. Of course it's still a tear jerker but it's funny and true to the story. No CG crap, real driving. Damon gets the voice pretty close even though he doesn't look a lot like Carrol but seems to get "him". Bales is just great.
The only nit is that some of the other cars are perhaps not quite right regarding the right season or year.
See it you're a fan.
I think we saw different movies. Whilst I enjoyed it from a Hollywood entertainment point of view, the driving etc was right up there with fast and furious movies. The racing shots we so obviously shot at slow speeds. And I'm not talking half racing, a lot were shot at street speeds! And what the hell was with the big Ford vs Ferrari drag race where they each kept just pushing a bit more on the accelerator until the Ferrari blew. Or the changing down to slow before lifting and braking etc. I could go on....
The movie was ok, the driving scenes pretty average
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I think I have given up on Hollywood creating historically accurate movies and have settled with pure entertainment....th at said, we were thoroughly entertained and enjoyed the movie. The best part being watching the movie with my son, hearing his interest grow about the story....and then afterwards walking to Hagerty's main office a few blocks from the theater to see Mckeel Hagerty's GT40 (attached).
Pretty darn great day!!
(https://i.ibb.co/FHYhCMT/gt40.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FHYhCMT)
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Saw it today, FANTASTIC movie. Gotta love it for what it is. As far as the brakes glowing in a rainstorm at 220 mph, how about welding under water? Gimme a BRAKE people!
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I just got back from taking my son to see it. We both loved it. Damon and Bale are really good acting together.
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Did Bale scream at any of the movie crew ? :evil:
Dusty
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?
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Saw it today, FANTASTIC movie. Gotta love it for what it is. As far as the brakes glowing in a rainstorm at 220 mph, how about welding under water? Gimme a BRAKE people!
Yah the brake bit was a bit much though there seems to some truth to it.....but welding underwater...of course you can weld underwater, hyperbaric welding has been around since the 30's...my uncle did some for the USN...it does have risk.
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?
It was Bale who spent several minutes screaming at Brian Catterson (Cycle World , Motortcyclist) who was providing a motorcycle for one of the Batman movies . He's lucky Catterson didn't open a can of...on him :laugh:
Dusty
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Just saw the DVD and thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah, it might not be completely accurate and true, but hey, it was fun. And the Bonus features was also good.
What's the story on Ken Miles' death? What happened?
Did a little searching and this is what I found:
https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a29810024/ford-v-ferrari-ken-miles-crash-death-true-story/
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Saw it this weekend, loved it! I had a Peterson book in the 70's on FORD and it had an article on the GT40 that really caught my attention. I grew up fascinated with Shelby and my first car was a 1965 Mustang 2+2 that was painted to look like a GT350 with a Shelby hood and the gauge cluster hump added to the center of the dash, it was a head turner!
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Just saw the DVD and thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah, it might not be completely accurate and true, but hey, it was fun. And the Bonus features was also good.
What's the story on Ken Miles' death? What happened?
Did a little searching and this is what I found:
https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a29810024/ford-v-ferrari-ken-miles-crash-death-true-story/
Not to be morbid or to make too much of this. There were rumors that Miles, like the rumors of Jim Morrison or even Elvis, that his death was faked. I assume the truth was a testing accident perhaps based due to mechanical failure. Some folks are such legends that mystery lives on even in death.
I suppose Miles in good company with Morrison and perhaps Elvis?
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Not to be morbid or to make too much of this. There were rumors that Miles, like the rumors of Jim Morrison or even Elvis, that his death was faked. I assume the truth was a testing accident perhaps based due to mechanical failure. Some folks are such legends that mystery lives on even in death.
I suppose Miles in good company with Morrison and perhaps Elvis?
Yep , his 102 year old self is racing shifter karts in Europe .
Dusty
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Yep , his 102 year old self is racing shifter karts in Europe .
Dusty
And what about Morrison and Elvis?
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And what about Morrison and Elvis?
They solved the Elvis question in the movie Men in Black
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSZe-DM_o6I
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People are bringing up Le Mans and Rush....I haven't seen anyone mention Grand Prix? I thought that was a slow, but pretty decent movie. The videography was cutting edge.
I liked FvF right up to then end, but Shelby's inability to talk to the widow struck me as cowardly. I suspect it was just the story, but I expected more. The guys were friends.
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Morrison was at Cedar Vale last year John , if you had been there I would have introduced you to him . He has mellowed a fair bit .
Dusty
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The Lizard King
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The Lizard King
Not anymore , more like a tall Koala Bear , he kept wanting belly rubs .
Dusty
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Bad stuff will always happen in racing. Witness Mondays race @ Daytona. A close friend some may recall, Walt Hansgen, drove GT40's for Penske and Holman Moody. Sometimes I think practice laps are more dangerous than race laps. R3~
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The NASCAR Superspeedway stuff is just a ridiculous crashfest. It's not what I call "racing".
I hope Ryan will make a full recovery.
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The NASCAR Superspeedway stuff is just a ridiculous crashfest. It's not what I call "racing".
I hope Ryan will make a full recovery.
What do you call it? The world wonders.
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What do you call it? The world wonders.
I think I called it a "ridiculous crashfest".
Perhaps you missed it? :wink:
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500 miles , about 85% of those at the very limit of traction , in a 3550 LB car with roughly the aerodynamics of a bread truck all while running within 10" of other competitors , it's amazing someone doesn't die every time they race Daytona or Talladega . Easy to poke fun at Nascar , it's easy , just turn left , they don't even race in the rain , the engines are still V8's with pushrods ...
Newman's crash yesterday was horrific , probably the worst in 10 years , the roll cage apparently deformed , rumors are his seat was deformed , parts everywhere , and yet he survived . He is hurt , we don't know yet how badly , but he SURVIVED . The engineers who study crashes can learn more about how to build a safer vehicle from that crash yesterday than 10,000 hours of computer time can teach . Props to the welders , frame tube benders , and everyone else who builds those cars .
Dusty
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I am not talking about the NASCAR drivers. I am tired of the contrived Superspeedway racing that is a ridiculous crashfest. These guys are some of the best drivers anywhere. They race on lots of other tracks, like Bristol, etc., where the racing is pure and takes more skill. I just don't like seeing this bumping and crashing at 200mph in a pack like Daytona and Talladega.
I'll admit I think Indy is the most pure form of (car) racing.
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Newman walked out of the hospital this morning , a daughter on each side , apparently unharmed . Amazing .
Dusty
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I saw photos with his kids, I didn't know he'd left the hospital.
I think it was quite odd that his condition was never explained to the public. The omission left an impending question in fans mind. Glad he's probably OK.
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I saw photos with his kids, I didn't know he'd left the hospital.
I think it was quite odd that his condition was never explained to the public. The omission left an impending question in fans mind. Glad he's probably OK.
He appeared to be unharmed . Weird .
Dusty
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I am dragging up this old topic because I saw some of the movie cars at our local Coffee and Cars. Several of the movie cars were sold on Bring a Trailer. Last month's C&C a fellow brought a silver Stingray that spun out in the race in the movie. There was some local connection with the car as it was "sponsored" by Commander Aviation. Aero Commanders were built here in Okla City. Actually the Stingray was in two different races and painted in different livery in another scene. Since this car was wrecked it had extra protection for the stunt driver. The ca also has vintage looking tires and wheels but had different brand stickers painted on the tires to appear authentic.
This month's C&C the same owner purchased a second car. It's '56 'vette with a cut down windshield. It was originally red but the director only wanted wanted Ferraris red in the scene so they painted it tan. The car wasn't wrecked and doesn't have as much safety gear as the Stingray but it does have the tires and disc brakes.
The guy also has purchased a third movie car. This one is the red Porsche Speedster that the Shelby character drove early in the movie. It's Beck Kit car with 125HP VW engine. I got the impression this one was going to be delivered and shown at the next C&C.
(https://i.ibb.co/3RsqgGm/P1060416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3RsqgGm)
(https://i.ibb.co/qJzRcGP/IMG-20200801-154034.png) (https://ibb.co/qJzRcGP)