Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Air-Cooled on March 22, 2020, 08:21:44 PM
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I just hit 600 miles, and so started my first service. Changed the oil with just a hair under 2 liters of Motul 7100 10w60. Did the recommended, rode it 10 miles til "warm" and checked the dipstick. It read about 1/8" below top line. OK for me. I had the valves adjusted by a local guy who works on nothing but Italian bikes. (The dealership here is too new for me to trust them). Yes, I know, I could have done it myself, but I wanted to go with someone experiences in how tight to make the valve nuts. I asked him if we should re-torque the head bolts at this time, and he said "no, not on this bike." He also told me that the V7II bikes, and all the small block Guzzis he services seem to have really bad looking oil if it is changed at the regular service intervals. He attributed this, in part to the low oil volume these bikes have (2 liters), and mentioned the oil sump spacer that I know a lot of guys here have installed to increase oil capacity by one full liter. If not using the spacer, he recommended changing my oil, at very minimum, every 3,000 miles. Seemed like good advice to me. You guys agree?
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I believe the change interval advice is sound. I have always thought that motorcycle oil lives a harder life than in an automobile. I added a sump spacer for peace of mind. There are high mileage V7s out there without the spacer doing just fine though.
Before the substandard spark plug caps start acting up perform a preemptive attack by replacing them with a NGK phenolic cap. This will require changing the spark plug to the type with the threaded top. It is a cheap modification and will prevent grief in the future.
Cap - NGK XD05F
Plug - NGK CPR8EA-9
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He's full of shit.
1. You DO retorque the heads on all the heron had models which includes the V7II.
2. You can't tell shit about oil just by looking at it. I mean if it smells seriously fuel contaminated or burnt maybe, but if it's just dark that doesn't tell him anything.
I've got the sump spacer on my MKI and it makes me feel warm and fuzzy, but I have no plans to add one to my III and I'm not gonna short the intervals unnecessarily.
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As bad as the owner's manual is, I think it does say to re-torque the heads at 600 miles. Something like "head screw." Oh well, they are not torqued! I'll get it done next oil change, and I'll do it at 3,000 miles. The fellow did say the oil was like mud, and only 1000cc on that other bike.
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Being full of ca-ca might be a bit strong :grin:, but yes, the head bolts and nuts should be re-torqued.
(https://i.ibb.co/LQcg7Cy/Head-Torque-specs.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LQcg7Cy)
I always change the oil at a frequency I am comfortable with. If you choose to change it sooner than necessary, or by the book it will be OK.
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Oh, the joy of an oil thread. I'd recommend sending an oil sample out for analysis rather than listening to all the well meaning advice you get from mechanics, friends, or internet commandos. I think you will be surprised at the result. I use Blackstone Labs
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/?session-id=osqfxdqxtu3fge45zzehv23b&timeout=20&bslauth&urlbase=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackstone-labs.net%2FBstone%2F%28S%28osqfxdqxtu3fge45zzehv23b%29%29%2F
After a couple analysis reports you will have a good idea of when to change your oil so you really don't need to send in a sample of every single oil change.
I had a sump extender on my small block. Note the past tense. That extra liter of capacity comes with reduced ground clearance and I determined that I really did not need the extra capacity. My full synthetic oil does just fine with only 2 liters capacity.
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I hold professionals to a higher standard than not knowing a critical service like head retorque is necessary so yeah I'm a little harsh.
It also then makes me question anything else that comes out of their mouths.
I have to admit I'm practically a religious believer in the performance of synthetic fluids and modern additive packages.
Hell DYNO oil is a 5k ok change recommendation on HARLEYS these days. Let that one sink in. I've got a buddy that's past 265k in an 06 Sporty using Harley Synth and 5k intervals. He's done some lab tests too, always good.
I've seen plenty of other lab tests that make me feel fine about it.
But usage and conditions do vary so if there's a question, spend the $20 and find out for yourself. See if YOUR usage and ambient conditions don't equal the vast majority.
Sure you can "save that money" and just change it early, that in theory makes some sense. But the counter argument is by spending it you might learn to save your money and time.
Or maybe it's not really about money anyway, but just learning about what results from your operating conditions.
Mud? From a synth, in 5k? Without serious abuse? Color me skeptical even without blowing it on in the head torque question.
YMMV, do what makes this feel warm and fuzzy, but don't trust that guy.
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He is a well known Italian bike mechanic in our area (Phoenix), and I DID ask him about re-torqueing the heads. But I agree, if the manual says to do it, it should be done.
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He is a well known Italian bike mechanic in our area (Phoenix), and I DID ask him about re-torqueing the heads. But I agree, if the manual says to do it, it should be done.
Understood.
And I will admit that Phoenix summers are WAY harder in I'll than anything that happens around here. So I get that.
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He is a well known Italian bike mechanic in our area (Phoenix), and I DID ask him about re-torqueing the heads. But I agree, if the manual says to do it, it should be done.
ONLY at first service, then never again.
And even with the sump spacer, any more than 2.5 liters gets puked out into the airbox.
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As bad as the owner's manual is, I think it does say to re-torque the heads at 600 miles. Something like "head screw." Oh well, they are not torqued! I'll get it done next oil change, and I'll do it at 3,000 miles. The fellow did say the oil was like mud, and only 1000cc on that other bike.
I wouldn't wait until 3000 mi. By then, you might very well have developed gasket failure and leaks. There's a reason why it's recommended at 600 mi.
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And don’t forget the screen/filter that hides in the trans. Drain hole mine had quite a bit of case sealant in it . It looked like RTV or something similar.
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Ditto on the don't wait recommendation for re-torquing the head bolts. Is it ABSOLUTELY necessary? I don't know. But, would I do it on my bike?
Definitely. Rolling down a country road, it's just me and my thoughts, and I don't want my thoughts wandering to whether I did the proper maintenance on my ride.
You mentioned that the only reason you didn't do the valves yourself is because you weren't sure how much to torque the nuts on the rockers. I get that, if you haven't done a few valve adjustments on other engines.
Now that your valves are adjusted (albeit by a guy who messed up on the re-torquing), re-torquing the head bolts is going to be the easy part. You could take it back to Bozo to do it at no charge, but maybe he isn't a good as people say. A torque wrench doesn't have to be expensive, so why not go get one? Get those valve covers off, and get to twisting. It's an easier job than adjusting the valves. You don't have to concern yourself with rotating the engine to close the valves.
BUT...would it be a bad idea to check his work on the valves (no need to loosen the nuts)? Do that, and next time you'll already be up to speed on the procedure.
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In theory you need to recheck valves after a retorque as compressing the gasket would move the head and rockers down closer to the pushrods.
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In theory you need to recheck valves after a retorque as compressing the gasket would move the head and rockers down closer to the pushrods.
Correct. When I do it annually on my old big blocks I find TDC for the side I'm working on. Then re-torque and adjust valve lash.
And remember, the engine should be stone cold BEFORE doing this. Let it sit overnight.
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Your tech may be confused with the II and III, which, IIRC, does not require checking the head bolts at service.
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Your tech may be confused with the II and III, which, IIRC, does not require checking the head bolts at service.
Yeah, though there's a pretty big difference between the II (last Heron head) and III (first Hemi heads). I mean, visually too.
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Yep. I'm aware.
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Yep. I'm aware.
I'm just saying that if you work for or are a dealer that's not something you should be easily confused about.
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A thought, OP stated that the tech was very familiar with Italian motorcycles. Given the relative market penetration I bet that means he works on Ducks and every so often he might see a Guzzi. Until just the past few years the V7 was not a huge seller (in a marque that never sold anything in volume) so it's easy to see why he was wrong about the head torque issue for Heron head small blocks. Nevertheless, if you own a V7 and have the owner's manual it would be wise to at least look up the recommended services and pass that info on to the tech. Just saying....
Peter Y.
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Air-Cooled, you said you filled the engine to within a smidgin of the 2L, so do keep an eye on the bottom of the airbox for any oil overflow. Every bike is just a little different, and each of pukes a little into the airbox at a different stage. My 1TB takes 1.9L without puking, but I've read of others that need a little less. If you get oil there, start taking out oil, say 50ml at a time, to ascertain the level your bike is happiest with. Oil in the airbox can foul the filter & the throttle body, impeding smooth running. Not a good look.
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I just hit 600 miles, and so started my first service. Changed the oil with just a hair under 2 liters of Motul 7100 10w60. Did the recommended, rode it 10 miles til "warm" and checked the dipstick. It read about 1/8" below top line. OK for me. I had the valves adjusted by a local guy who works on nothing but Italian bikes. (The dealership here is too new for me to trust them). Yes, I know, I could have done it myself, but I wanted to go with someone experiences in how tight to make the valve nuts. I asked him if we should re-torque the head bolts at this time, and he said "no, not on this bike." He also told me that the V7II bikes, and all the small block Guzzis he services seem to have really bad looking oil if it is changed at the regular service intervals. He attributed this, in part to the low oil volume these bikes have (2 liters), and mentioned the oil sump spacer that I know a lot of guys here have installed to increase oil capacity by one full liter. If not using the spacer, he recommended changing my oil, at very minimum, every 3,000 miles. Seemed like good advice to me. You guys agree?
Follow the Manual...... The V7II DOES need a head re-torque at first service, and not again. It is the III and following that do not.
I call baloney on the oil change interval. If you use the right oil (10W/60 full synthetic) you are fine. My oil is just about at 6K and looks and smells fine. The last 2K have been mostly commuting. The sump spacer is not a BAD thing unless clearance is a concern, but is not a necessary thing. I spend my time between 3 bikes and usually go 5-6K on each, so just do an annual oil change unless I have a long trip planned.
FWIW, 1st service also calls for transmission and rear diff oil changes as well. Be sure to check the screen in the transmission. Mine had some spooge/goo and what looked like bits of silicone sealant in it.
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A thought, OP stated that the tech was very familiar with Italian motorcycles. Given the relative market penetration I bet that means he works on Ducks and every so often he might see a Guzzi. Until just the past few years the V7 was not a huge seller (in a marque that never sold anything in volume) so it's easy to see why he was wrong about the head torque issue for Heron head small blocks. Nevertheless, if you own a V7 and have the owner's manual it would be wise to at least look up the recommended services and pass that info on to the tech. Just saying....
Peter Y.
We must have very different perceptions at what constitutes a professional mechanic then. How does someone work on something or give a customer a technical answer for something they don't know well and fail to check the OEM data? I mean just check the maintenance schedule, that's all it would take right?
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My guess it's probably Roland at Spare Parts. He's a very competent mechanic, but not necessarily current on the newer stuff. They haven't been a dealer for a very long time. If that's the case, cut him some slack.
You're confusing threads man, this guy is in Phoenix, AZ, the guy with the V9 is in Philly.
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Oh yeah, I'm drinking to kill the bug! I'll pass it onto the tank slapper.
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Oh yeah, I'm drinking to kill the bug! I'll pass it onto the tank slapper.
:boozing: I told Jenn that was the case minutes ago lol.
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Lots of excellent replies! Yes, I could easily torque the head bolts myself now — there are five I believe? But then I would have to do the valves after that, or at least check them. I think I will probably do the whole damn thing myself, though I still have concerns about How tight to torque the valve nuts. And also, thanks for the reminder to do it with the bike stone cold. The guy who did the valve adjustment was Tom Hull. Real nice fellow who seems to know a lot about Ducatis and Guzzis. Very nice guy too. He used to work for his father at Dave's Cycle Service, until they closed. He has raced at Laguna Seca and many other places and always has a few bikes from customers in his garage. From the videos I've seen on valve adjustment, they say don't over-tighten the nuts as this will break the part off. I'll be doing some guess work on this.
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A torque value on such is kinda silly. There's no real way for you to use a torque wrench while still holding the adjuster in spec, well without special tools.
I'd generally describe it as a grunt or snug.
You turn the nut till you feel resistance, then give an extra grunt, maybe 1/8 of a turn.
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Sounds good. On the head torquing, do you need to torque the central bolt or just the other four?
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Sounds good. On the head torquing, do you need to torque the central bolt or just the other four?
Everything.
Crack em all off, then use a crossing pattern.
I feel like I did the central one first (loosen) and last (tighten) but I'd have to check.
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I looked at the diagram again and it says the central bolt uses Loctite 542...is that Blue Loctite?
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I looked at the diagram again and it says the central bolt uses Loctite 542...is that Blue Loctite?
I'm not sure I've ever bothered, but:
https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/product/thread-sealants/loctite_542.html
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Somewhere on here is a complete set of instructions with photos from Pete Roper for the 1TB re-torquing, nut sizes, torques & all. Perhaps as far back as 2015 or 2016.
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Everything.
Crack em all off, then use a crossing pattern.
I feel like I did the central one first (loosen) and last (tighten) but I'd have to check.
Only thing I differ on here is I crack them loose slightly then torque to spec ONE AT A TIME in a criss-cross pattern. This keeps everything tight during the process.
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to be clear one is a smaller diameter and is less torque. I don't remember the amounts but will look and see if I have them here somewhere.
And yes the valves need to be set then and two fingers and the thumb tight not a whole fist full. easy to replace if you did break one but common sense should tell you where to stop.
the head will leak soon enough if not done then it's pull the heads and new gaskets time. your choice.
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Kevin,
How about putting the torque settings for V7ii and V7iii in this thread, it's hard to find them in the manual.
I have often wondered about torquing the tappet locknut, it wouldn't hurt even if the gap changes a little, it would just be a matter of changing the start point, I think I tend to over tighten them worried that they might work loose. I had a Lario for a while, it was getting a bit tappy so I took the cover off to check one of the screws fell out onto the ground, in spite of running that way for several hundred miles no damage was done.
It must have been running as a 3 Valve lol
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Ok, I'm finally at my desk again.
I looked at the diagram again and it says the central bolt uses Loctite 542...is that Blue Loctite?
You're looking at the wrong part on the diagram, the part labelled for the Loctite is the STUD itself when installed into the cylinder.
Kevin,
How about putting the torque settings for V7ii and V7iii in this thread, it's hard to find them in the manual.
I have often wondered about torquing the tappet locknut, it wouldn't hurt even if the gap changes a little, it would just be a matter of changing the start point, I think I tend to over tighten them worried that they might work loose. I had a Lario for a while, it was getting a bit tappy so I took the cover off to check one of the screws fell out onto the ground, in spite of running that way for several hundred miles no damage was done.
It must have been running as a 3 Valve lol
OK, look, I'm happy to help but it's not hard to find them in the manuals (which are available online for download) and sorry, but I just now had my first real break of the day. Jenn is back working in the hospital and the kids are homeschooling through at least 4/20 which means I'm not only cooking for 4, but I'm also running school most mornings.
Ok, with my whining out of the way, I rechecked and came up with the following as per V750IE Engine Manual (#B043109):
4 large nuts (M10 x 1.5) - tighten in at least 2 steps - first to 18 ft. lbs. (28 Nm), and then to 31 ft. lbs. (42 Nm)
1 small nut (no diameter or thread listed here, but M8 listed elsewhere) - tighten to 21 ft. lbs. (28 Nm)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MpWxv8tcgEknZR4-K2LRyaFleKvj0r7Z_v79edzM7qmfYg7WFBgqdRpHdWqHhrJ-SbVv6QO0puukuUdTAheA9omdj8bTamHmJBzUqyxRW9EZBgZc3NRI3PHlSOX-ieyLAhL336Y5fbyabpFI4gAjesBKsyHghwMivO5Y9BbLlYIQM6SUXQXZKDGQC4UaZaEWRPlGop4_WBSpt64wvI-x9CTW50mYusSrj23t8vUiGmRAiq3FGhiWUUgZbjady63LUSAS_42vGwI5iP8fI_cLXSdUrNEZ8aoReDCbukIB9ZqkihANZArKBUqoquMxQJqp3uNTWlGzNzCmqRrIJPOSub6CGNnQ5D59PZ9_-juwaZjW650kFHgG2CA4CFr5msLzVedzwULATXGkbhQ53qIaONmQBJEcPR24v2JpCMIIEgmmo0GTui3ugWy-BSKHf6HMn9OjMYPcYMKPLz3LudCoBuc1iOhrF3cUiVdhw_9DBWWVUBow4eFuIgd5bOK3cl1FgaTyRj2gnHrzW5FSzxDpMMiZnmjuvP_0K1g0ktL5VSAmnAAtxCIIfsQrVgAhwK8mfe_bZrICpr_ZK9zZqL-1B4KeXKoyJIPg2mxqiYElPyn7RRgtXS8ibFTogcLXCY8xhoTu4XV2MZ_gsn03D2OpcTwcliUGx1WXpwfS8FL71LC5uMFs3VnFL8D_sQEKF9MDvKmEI5bd3U4zfecDg8-uLsYO6Eh6KlkAtPgFvun4FiR4nFfCMUclDzKv=w649-h578-no)
This more or less agrees with what I see in an old 2TB V7C manual (#981078). Though that manual says:
M10 nuts: 29.50 - 30.97 ft. lbs. (40 - 42 Nm)
M8 nuts: 20.65 - 22.12 ft. lbs. (28 - 30 Nm)
Now HERE is what I have in my notes from Pete:
Head Retorque by Pete
With the re-torque I crack all four big nuts off after the small one towards the centreline of he bike I then re-torque to 32ft/lbs on the four big ones and lastly the smaller centre nut which is I believe 22ft/lbs.
I find the need for this bizarre as the head gaskets are the 'Monotorque' type and they are always done up much tighter ex-factory than they are when you re-do them!!!
And he's mentioning only ONE smaller nut at the center? I can't remember either way, it was almost 6 years ago lol. EDIT- looking at the stud count I'd say 4 large nuts and 1 small per side, but for some reason the parts count only shows the large nut count as one side while the rest of the counts are total for the bike (both sides).
I'd have to look for that info on the V7III, but I would be hesitant to add it here because it might confuse some into thinking that's a maintenance item on the III when it is not.
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correct on all. Ithink guzzi Steve said he added 1 foot pound to all and said to recheck at 25000 or so but never had a head gasket go again.
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It's your bike, your mental health, and your money, so do whatever makes you happy.
Personally, I just run the recommended synthetic 10W-60 oil in my V7 and don't worry at all about a change interval of 6,000 to 7,000 miles. I think modern synthetic oil really is that good, and FI engines really are much cleaner in operation. I'm operating in Texas, so it gets plenty hot here too.
Oh, and I don't have a sump spacer. Just the stock sump. When I change the oil but not filter, it likes to get about 1.5 liters. I'm fine with that.
Now if I didn't ride the bike very often or very far, and thus never "burned" the water vapor out, I'd probably change the oil more frequently. And if I was going to store the bike for a long period of time, I'd probably change the oil before storage. But otherwise? My view is trust the modern synthetic oil and don't overthink this.
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Air Cooled
Your torque wrench can measure when your loosing a nut also ! Start LOW and go up 1 lb at a time till it comes loose , ain't nothing hard about it ! :grin:
When I check my oil I get some on my finger and FEEL what its like.
BUT
I'll change it at most 10K miles even if it still FEELS good . If it FEELS good then its still good , FEELS bad then it don't matter if its 3 miles on it --- I don't want it in my engine. Some of those DINO oils don't FEEL as good when NEW ,as 10K mile old Synthetic's oils !
Using the BEST oil is Cheeper in the long run !
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Air Cooled
Your torque wrench can measure when your loosing a nut also ! Start LOW and go up 1 lb at a time till it comes loose , ain't nothing hard about it ! :grin:
Two things to consider:
* I was always taught that static torque was different than dynamic when using a torque wrench. That is it takes more to break it loose than to get to a point when rotating. I can't say I understand the difference, and it may be an rch, but it does likely mean you can't count on measuring torque on a fastener that way, at least not with 100% accuracy.
* Pete R has said he always *thought* the head fasteners were tighter from the factory than they were after retorque. Now that's a perception and could be false, or it could also mean your suggestion wouldn't help.
Not that it matters, we have the specs.
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It's your bike, your mental health, and your money, so do whatever makes you happy.
Personally, I just run the recommended synthetic 10W-60 oil in my V7 and don't worry at all about a change interval of 6,000 to 7,000 miles. I think modern synthetic oil really is that good, and FI engines really are much cleaner in operation. I'm operating in Texas, so it gets plenty hot here too.
Oh, and I don't have a sump spacer. Just the stock sump. When I change the oil but not filter, it likes to get about 1.5 liters. I'm fine with that.
Now if I didn't ride the bike very often or very far, and thus never "burned" the water vapor out, I'd probably change the oil more frequently. And if I was going to store the bike for a long period of time, I'd probably change the oil before storage. But otherwise? My view is trust the modern synthetic oil and don't overthink this.
+1 :thumb: I agree with the above, but SmithSwede has the goods to back up his words as his V7 just passed the 100,000 mile mark. I just changed my oil today at 12,000 miles (6,000 change interval). The oil was still transparent, just a tad browner than new. No sump spacer either.
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Well, I am glad we have covered this from A to Z. I have learned something.
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And V7 oil only has the motor to worry about. No shearing from the gears.
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Because of this thread, last night I re-torqued the heads on my 2015 V7. There can be a benefit to re-hashing all of this stuff for the umpteenth time. :grin:
Due to a number of extenuating circumstances my 2015 V7 has quite low miles. When I completed the first service awhile back, for some reason I thought the heads did not require the re-torque procedure. After reading through all of this I realized I had been misinformed. Now I can rest easy. :azn:
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I wrote a short essay on re-torquing the older 2TB V7. "Click" on the photos for the text. And there's at least one good photo in there.
Joe
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157627672086548 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157627672086548)
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And there's at least one good photo in there.
Joe
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157627672086548 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157627672086548)
There certainly is!! :wink:
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I brought the bike back to Tom and he retorqued the heads, and redid the valves. All good. Now for transmission and final drive.
(https://i.ibb.co/hcHY5PR/oil.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hcHY5PR)
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Air-Cooled,
I also wrote guides for Trans and Final Drive, but for the earlier V7. Sadly, my assistant wasn't there for those. There may be some tips, even if the eye candy isn't present.
Joe
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157626993357143 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157626993357143)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157625569987011 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157625569987011)
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Air-Cooled,
I also wrote guides for Trans and Final Drive, but for the earlier V7. Sadly, my assistant wasn't there for those. There may be some tips, even if the eye candy isn't present.
Joe
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157626993357143 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157626993357143)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157625569987011 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157625569987011)
CAUTION - the TRANSMISSION is different on the V7II and later models (6-speeds).
There is no level plug.
There is a filter screen to remove behind (above) the drain plug.
The first service seems to bring a lot of RTV or something out with the filter screen which should be removed and cleaned.
Capacity is MUCH lower on the 6-speed transmissions - and since there's no way to check it most seem to be VERY slightly under-filling it by measuring and estimating how much was left behind, or actually measuring how much drains and just matching that.
Over-filling it seems to lead to mist or worse out the breather.
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I drained the transmission, let it sit for 15 min to drain fully. Did not measure the amount that drained. Replaced with 2 cups of synthetic (that's just under 500cc). The filter screen had no debris on it. Hopefully no mist.
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I drained the transmission, let it sit for 15 min to drain fully. Did not measure the amount that drained. Replaced with 2 cups of synthetic (that's just under 500cc). The filter screen had no debris on it. Hopefully no mist.
:thumb:
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Before the substandard spark plug caps start acting up perform a preemptive attack by replacing them with a NGK phenolic cap. This will require changing the spark plug to the type with the threaded top. It is a cheap modification and will prevent grief in the future.
Cap - NGK XD05F
Plug - NGK CPR8EA-9
If I use the recommended cap & plug, can I use the original wires? Also, is it easy to remove the wire from the existing cap and connect it to the NGK?
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The original HT cables are fine. On the earlier 1TB (& 2TB) the caps unscrew & re-screw into the wires, just like a self-tapper. Just ensure the copper ends are bright & there's no corrosion. If needed you could nip off a few mm without affecting the length.
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I drained the transmission, let it sit for 15 min to drain fully. Did not measure the amount that drained. Replaced with 2 cups of synthetic (that's just under 500cc). The filter screen had no debris on it. Hopefully no mist.
After some experimenting, i just put in 450 ml, or it will come out of the breather during hard running. Makes sense as there is still some in there after draining. Done a few changes this way and no issues.
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Not sure how much this applies to the 6 speed transmissions, but there are a couple threads saying that the correct amount of transmission fluid in 5 speeds is critical. Too low can damage some of the smaller bearings in the transmission. The failing bearings can mimic the sound of a bad throwout bearing. Obviously similar concerns with overfilling and blowing out the breather.
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=90543.0
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=91373.0
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Not sure how much this applies to the 6 speed transmissions, but there are a couple threads saying that the correct amount of transmission fluid in 5 speeds is critical. Too low can damage some of the smaller bearings in the transmission. The failing bearings can mimic the sound of a bad throwout bearing. Obviously similar concerns with overfilling and blowing out the breather.
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=90543.0
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=91373.0
I believe the differences include the fact that the 5-speeds have something like double the capacity of the 6-speeds, and they have a way to check the level (level plug).
IIRC the 6-speeds have a pump so that might make the level somewhat less critical. As you know the 6-speeds are prone to misting or belching fluid if they are over-filled even in the slightest. I think the 5-speeds are more tolerant of slightly higher levels.
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I fill my 5 speed until it weeps out the check level hole.
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FWIW, many Asian built motorcycles have two oil pumps just like the V7III. The second pump is there to provide pressurized oil to the various bearings in the tranny. I'm guessing that those bearings are plain bearings which need oil under pressure whereas the older 5 speed used ball bearings which only need splash lube. Pete R., feel free to correct me. This would not be the first time I'm wrong!
Peter Y.