Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: willowstreetguzziguy on July 27, 2020, 10:38:49 PM
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IF I RULED THE WORLD...New riders would be limited to under 200cc for the first year, 500cc the second year, 750cc third year, 1000cc limit the fourth year. And to make sure they wear protective equipment, after passing their written and riding test, one final test....
The tester and newbie go for a ride in a car. But not just any car, the tester is driving a vehicle with the center floor between them removed. Yep, you can see the road down there. The tester drives up to 40 mph and asks the newbie to reach down and touch the roadway with their finger of choice! After doing so, show their finger to the tester. Refuse to touch the roadway and they fail the test and don’t get their license!
I’ve felt the roadway at 40 mph with my hands (helmet, hip, ankle, and shoulder) when I went down on the road in 1981!My hands burned for a week. Ever since, I NEVER ride without gloves and my leather jacket. Newbies should fell the roadway at least once before getting their license. Betcha we’d see less riders (and passengers) riding around in shorts, sandals, t-shirts and bikinis!
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IF I RULED THE WORLD...New riders would be limited to under 200cc for the first year, 500cc the second year, 750cc third year, 1000cc limit the fourth year. And to make sure they wear protective equipment, after passing their written and riding test, one final test....
The tester and newbie go for a ride in a car. But not just any car, the tester is driving a vehicle with the center floor between them removed. Yep, you can see the road down there. The tester drives up to 40 mph and asks the newbie to reach down and touch the roadway with their finger of choice! After doing so, show their finger to the tester. Refuse to touch the roadway and they fail the test and don’t get their license!
I’ve felt the roadway at 40 mph with my hands (helmet, hip, ankle, and shoulder) when I went down on the road in 1981!My hands burned for a week. Ever since, I NEVER ride without gloves and my leather jacket. Newbies should fell the roadway at least once before getting their license. Betcha we’d see less riders (and passengers) riding around in shorts, sandals, t-shirts and bikinis!
Kinda sorta like that in italy. You can ride up to 125cc bike from 16 to 18 yrs of age (a1) then from 18-21 yrs (a2) you can ride a bike with up to 35kw (50 hp) and at 21 years (a3) no size limit. You can get the a3 license at 20 yrs of age if you had the a2 for 2 yrs. The testing is far more rigorous there as well.
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Good thing you don't rule the MSF world.
Sub 200 cc would get you killed where I live.
There would be very few riders because we don't have the advantages that othe countries have to compel someone to go through tiered licensing like lane splitting, parking, etc.
I agree though that skills need to be honed. Skills is what keeps you on two wheels.
Situational awareness is what keeps you away from danger.
When I meet someone who is interested in riding, I tell them to become an avid bicyclist, take the MSF course and start on a dual sport bike if they have long enough legs and fields and trails to practice on.
If not, then as light a bike that they can handle and a lot of empty parking lot practicing before venturing out to quiet roads.
I also recommend they read all of David Hough's books on motorcycling to understand the unique hazards encountered by riders.
I've ridden 40 years and 100s of thousands of miles and never slid down a road. I have wrecked though. Last time on the street was 1987 when sitting at a stop light and got Tboned by a Jeep that couldn't make the turn. My situational awareness enabled me the time to get my leg mostly out of the way. Nothing broken and helmet never impacted anything.
There needs to be a balance between freedoms and living under the rules of 'mommy's government control.
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when he turned 18, i bought my son a 500 ninja. a very nice fairly upright sitting bike. it had enough power to ride on the highway with me for a longer period of time but a horrible seat. being young, i figured he could deal with the seat. that little twin was entertaining without being scary. until he got his license, we rode together or he didn't ride. we spent lots of time in parking lots. randomly on rides where i felt it was safe, i would put my hand down in a stop signal and he would stop as fast as he could. after he had his license and was riding on his own,he still managed to crash that bike 3 times, none with real damage to him (i also geared him up). one time involved a flash rain on streets that were dry for a long time, he could not believe how fast those tires could slip out. two times involved inexperience and bad judgment. all of this before age 21. he kept riding and has been accident free for over 10 years.
there is the old saying that goes: its not if you crash but when. sadly, there seems to be some rationale for the saying. if you can just survive your teething pains, you can be a good rider. this is probably why dirt is the best place to start, less chance of damaging yourself.
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Good thing you don't rule the MSF world.
Sub 200 cc would get you killed where I live.
There would be very few riders because we don't have the advantages that othe countries have to compel someone to go through tiered licensing like lane splitting, parking, etc.
On top of not having tiered licensing requirements, here in Florida neither motorcycle insurance nor helmets are required. Only thing riders are compelled to do is have a motorcycle endorsement shm.
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You can tell them the stove is hot, but they won't believe you till they smell the burning flesh .
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Just a different point of view.
It’s not the HP or CC size of a motorcycle that takes lives and causes accidents, it’s that little part of the bike called a throttle control grip that causes accidents. However that being said, I do agree that starting small and increasing size with experience is definitely A good idea as that’s the way I progressed, from years of dirt combined with street riding to a Honda CB750c.
Since here in our country this proposed progression you have suggested will probably never happen. Therefore I figure it comes down to individual choices to conduct oneself with good judgment and responsibility or pay the ultimate price with injury or death.
Good subject!
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(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRlU4u25olL_JG96mWmvwg5Li4iixm9vDCR2g&usqp=CAU)
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On top of not having tiered licensing requirements, here in Florida neither motorcycle insurance nor helmets are required. Only thing riders are compelled to do is have a motorcycle endorsement shm.
No MC (new riders) endorsement without taking & passing a MSF or Riders Edge at HD store. Under 21 special tag. Want to ride without a lid, must have at least 10k med insurance. Bike with a bank note must have insurance.
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No MC (new riders) endorsement without taking & passing a MSF or Riders Edge at HD store. Under 21 special tag. Want to ride without a lid, must have at least 10k med insurance. Bike with a bank note must have insurance.
Been here over a decade and pulled over many times, never once asked for insurance. Renewing plates at the dmv they ask for proof of insurance then see motorcycle and say nevermind you don't need it. The msf course is the only positive improvement in FL recently. I see under21 tags all day with helmetless riders. Gangs of wheelie popping, red-light running dirtbikes and atvs roam the streets freely.
Motorcycling is a complete joke in Florida, i can't believe lane splitting ain't legal.
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Here are the reasons why I have to politely disagree.
My first m/c when I was 16 in 1959 was a '51 Harley 74 I didn't know anything about cc's. Lots of us ole farm boys were running around on big Harleys and some had brit bikes with cc's. How many cu is that we'd ask.
We went hunting with our dad or a relative. No gun safety course and I was hunting rabbits and squirrels by myself when I was 12.
If I'm going to train someone to drive a semi I'm not going to put him in a sandbox with a tonka truck. Start him off with a twin axle with sleeper so he knows from the git-go how to back it and make corners.
We weren't watching TV or playing video games. No we were working and learning from our elders. Now they have safety courses for everything and OSHA wants you to be 18 before you can even run a fork lift at the big box stores.
Just my opinion from a long life of not always being super safe. Now seeing the dogs hung up scared me about sex until I was older
Tex
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Here are the reasons why I have to politely disagree.
My first m/c when I was 16 in 1959 was a '51 Harley 74 I didn't know anything about cc's. Lots of us ole farm boys were running around on big Harleys and some had brit bikes with cc's. How many cu is that we'd ask.
We went hunting with our dad or a relative. No gun safety course and I was hunting rabbits and squirrels by myself when I was 12.
If I'm going to train someone to drive a semi I'm not going to put him in a sandbox with a tonka truck. Start him off with a twin axle with sleeper so he knows from the git-go how to back it and make corners.
We weren't watching TV or playing video games. No we were working and learning from our elders. Now they have safety courses for everything and OSHA wants you to be 18 before you can even run a fork lift at the big box stores.
Just my opinion from a long life of not always being super safe. Now seeing the dogs hung up scared me about sex until I was older
Tex
Grew up the same way, difference is now you can get a used 100+ hp motorcycle for nothing and our population is more than double what it was in 59'. Things are different.
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Been here over a decade and pulled over many times, never once asked for insurance. Renewing plates at the dmv they ask for proof of insurance then see motorcycle and say nevermind you don't need it. The msf course is the only positive improvement in FL recently. I see under21 tags all day with helmetless riders. Gangs of wheelie popping, red-light running dirtbikes and atvs roam the streets freely.
Motorcycling is a complete joke in Florida, i can't believe lane splitting ain't legal.
Let me guess. Do you live near Miami?
When I bought my first street bike at 19, I was living in Daytona Beach. For most people motorcycles were transportation, not death machines. Guess there is much more disregard for the rule of law these days.
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Let me guess. Do you live near Miami?
When I bought my first street bike at 19, I was living in Daytona Beach. For most people motorcycles were transportation, not death machines. Guess there is much more disregard for the rule of law these days.
Yep aka motorcycle hell.
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Tooooo many rules spoils the party and natural selection is inhibited!!!
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I have to agree with the OP. You can get into trouble with small cc bikes it’s just at a slower speed and less mass to fly around than big liter bikes.
I have to wonder about cruiser riders. (I am one too) Do cruisers not go down at speed? Do they not have accidents? I’ve had two accidents on big cruisers. My gear prevented serious injury both times. However, I see so many men and women riding around on their cruisers with nothing but shorts, tank tops, and shorty helmets!!! WTH!? Then they look at me at the station and say “man, I don’t know how you ride in that jacket, it’s too hot for that”!!! I usually reply that it’s my third jacket and the other two did their job well.
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I am not sure why cc sizes have to do with anything. Weight and power? It seems like once someone rides one bike, he can probably ride another. Riding it well is another issue. How many 60 year old guys on Harleys have never used their front brake?
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It's my opinion that as vehicles have more features like positioning sensors that warn the driver to stay in his lane and so, the drivers become more numb .....If I were king, besides being surrounded by beautiful women, all cars would be manual transmissions and all bikes kick start only...this would eliminate half the drivers/ riders in the country.......
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It's my opinion that as vehicles have more features like positioning sensors that warn the driver to stay in his lane and so, the drivers become more numb .....If I were king, besides being surrounded by beautiful women, all cars would be manual transmissions and all bikes kick start only...this would eliminate half the drivers/ riders in the country.......
This!!! Do you realize that most tractors (for tractor trailers) are automatic now? Not true automatics, they’re manual with pneumatic valve bodies doing the shifting because so many truck drivers cannot drive manual transmissions! I can actually outperform the automatic trucks mpg wise when I’m in a 10 speed manual. But those have been phased out of our fleet. Drivers are getting so bad I’m halfway of the opinion that self driving vehicles would be an improvement!
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It's my opinion that as vehicles have more features like positioning sensors that warn the driver to stay in his lane and so, the drivers become more numb .....If I were king, besides being surrounded by beautiful women, all cars would be manual transmissions and all bikes kick start only...this would eliminate half the drivers/ riders in the country.......
:grin: :thumb:
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Agree. Motorcycle helmets only protect the person wearing them rather than protecting everyone else. A pandemic affects the entire populace rather than just the guy on his bike.
That's not the argument always used in favor of mandatory helmet laws.
"All of society pays the price when a helmetless rider crashes and spends 6 months in ICU and then therapy for the rest of his life. It costs millions, and you and I pay! It's socially irresponsible to ride without a helmet!"
Well, you know the rap, it goes on from there ...
Lannis
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I have to agree with the OP. You can get into trouble with small cc bikes it’s just at a slower speed and less mass to fly around than big liter bikes.
I have to wonder about cruiser riders. (I am one too) Do cruisers not go down at speed? Do they not have accidents? I’ve had two accidents on big cruisers. My gear prevented serious injury both times. However, I see so many men and women riding around on their cruisers with nothing but shorts, tank tops, and shorty helmets!!! WTH!? Then they look at me at the station and say “man, I don’t know how you ride in that jacket, it’s too hot for that”!!! I usually reply that it’s my third jacket and the other two did their job well.
I will say that skilled cruiser riders typically don't take as many chances or ride near or at the edge of the bike's limits or their skill's limit.
The question I have is why did you go down twice while riding your cruiser? You are the guy who admitted riding more than 10 mph over the speed limit, aren't you? :evil:
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That's not the argument always used in favor of mandatory helmet laws.
"All of society pays the price when a helmetless rider crashes and spends 6 months in ICU and then therapy for the rest of his life. It costs millions, and you and I pay! It's socially irresponsible to ride without a helmet!"
No, what was said and what you quoted are the same thing. Motorcycle helmets only protect the rider. Which saves myself as a taxpayer money. It’s a win-win or lose-lose. However, if the fool without a helmet wrecks and suffers TBI, that only physically effects the rider. It effects me monetarily but not physically. Masks do not stop the wearer from touching contaminated surfaces, but it does prevent the wearers from contaminating surfaces. Which may very well effect me or my loved ones physically. Helmets show you value your own life and not placing a financial burden on others. Masks show you value others lives and contributing to financial gain for the nation as we can re-open quicker.
Well, you know the rap, it goes on from there ...
Lannis
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I will say that skilled cruiser riders typically don't take as many chances or ride near or at the edge of the bike's limits or their skill's limit.
The question I have is why did you go down twice while riding your cruiser? You are the guy who admitted riding more than 10 mph over the speed limit, aren't you? :evil:
Yeah, I ride my cruiser fast. Pegged it out this past week at 120+. I also split lanes with my cruiser and scrape hard parts with my cruiser. Never been down at those speeds. I high sided pulling out of the gym at 15mph bc I wasn’t paying attention. That was on me. My gear saved my stupidity. As far as the other, I hit a ladder that was on I-85. Riding THE SPEED LIMIT!!! The pickup ahead of me hit the ladder and I didn’t feel like swerving into the tractor-trailer beside me or the cable on the left. So I hit it going straight ahead. Again, going the speed limit behaving very well with my riding partner beside me. If I had been by myself I’d have gotten around the pack of traffic long before I got to that ladder. I ride hard, fast, but not stupid. When I get old and slow like you, trailering my bike instead of riding it, I’ll probably hang it up. But that’s not gonna happen. I’ll go out like second hand lions if I have a say in the matter.
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I can relate to small bikes in the current age. Whe I first started riding I had a Yamaha 80 Trailmaster set up for the street. I put a lot of miles on that bike. Last fall i saw a similar bike for sale that needed major work. I thought it would be fun getting it running and then using it around town instead of the heavy Audace. Well when I started riding it, it wasn't so great. It couldn't keep up with traffic and I felt miniscule in traffic, all the other vehicles have gotten bigger too. An easy solution I replaced it with a V7. Perfect bike for local duty and fun to ride. I will post pictures in another thread in a few days when I get more time.
kk
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Yeah, I ride my cruiser fast. Pegged it out this past week at 120+. I also split lanes with my cruiser and scrape hard parts with my cruiser. Never been down at those speeds. I high sided pulling out of the gym at 15mph bc I wasn’t paying attention. That was on me. My gear saved my stupidity. As far as the other, I hit a ladder that was on I-85. Riding THE SPEED LIMIT!!! The pickup ahead of me hit the ladder and I didn’t feel like swerving into the tractor-trailer beside me or the cable on the left. So I hit it going straight ahead. Again, going the speed limit behaving very well with my riding partner beside me. If I had been by myself I’d have gotten around the pack of traffic long before I got to that ladder. I ride hard, fast, but not stupid. When I get old and slow like you, trailering my bike instead of riding it, I’ll probably hang it up. But that’s not gonna happen. I’ll go out like second hand lions if I have a say in the matter.
Well, you know what they say about bold, old and slow riders.
I'd rather trailer than wear out my tires on an interstate, but that's just me. Trailering up to the mountains for a week of riding. I'll be in my air conditioned truck enjoying a cool drink and then riding in the cool mountain air. Enjoy your riding around Atlanta.
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Well, you know what they say about bold, old and slow riders.
I'd rather trailer than wear out my tires on an interstate, but that's just me. Trailering up to the mountains for a week of riding. I'll be in my air conditioned truck enjoying a cool drink and then riding in the cool mountain air. Enjoy your riding around Atlanta.
Even better when you're pulling a travel trailer / you hauler. :thumb:
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Well, you know what they say about bold, old and slow riders.
I'd rather trailer than wear out my tires on an interstate, but that's just me. Trailering up to the mountains for a week of riding. I'll be in my air conditioned truck enjoying a cool drink and then riding in the cool mountain air. Enjoy your riding around Atlanta.
Lol, no need to worry about some getting old like you and I TWA, especially when writing checks with their ego that their arse won’t be able to cash.
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This can go down the rabbit hole quickly, but what the heck.
I was a SCUBA instructor/trainer for 10 years. At the end on the basic cert class I'd leave my students with a VERY important statement.
I'd tell them they now have a card that will let them dive all over the world. And many of those dive locations will be too much for them-now.
They needed to realize that in reality they were only qualified to dive in the same conditions they trained in. THAT was key. To be able to dive safely required much more advanced training in the conditions they expected to dive in. This is a commitment they need to make to stay safe. I told them there was zero possibility of me preparing them for other open ocean conditions they would experience. Get instruction in different locations prior to diving there.
Same with motorcycles. When my wife completed MSF class about 10 years ago she was NOWHERE ready to operate a motorcycle in traffic. Sure, she could ride around a parking lot as that what she was trained for. Period.
This is no shot at MSF instructors. They have to deal with what they have to work with. Seriously, how often do you see "experienced" riders operate their motorcycle like they drive a car? I see it all the time. Riders trusting auto indicators, following way too close, riding their bike for MILES on a highway in the death/danger zone. Taking 10 seconds to pass a semi. Or worse, riding along side of one for longer than required, or even worse, letting traffic low put them in a spot without an option to avoid danger. Riding in the right hand lane and passing a freeway exit-right smack dab in the kill zone for the cell phone car idiot who realizes at the last minute "there's my exit" and they yank it over two lanes to get off right into the bike.
Professional training teaches all this and a ton more, and none of it comes even close to taking the fun out of motorcycling.
I often wondered if we graduated SCUBA students too quickly, and I wonder the same thing about the MSF. If my wife's experience is the norm, I'm sure I know what I think.............. ..........
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IF I RULED THE WORLD...
But you don't. And in America we're free.. Free to ride our machines and not be hassled by The Man..
(https://i.ibb.co/kSL4QBh/07c61d0ad90557952bf658d75755da96-henry-fonda-film-noir.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kSL4QBh)
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But you don't. And in America we're free.. Free to ride our machines and not be hassled by The Man..
(https://i.ibb.co/kSL4QBh/07c61d0ad90557952bf658d75755da96-henry-fonda-film-noir.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kSL4QBh)
Not bringing religion into this but... Amen Brother Amen😂😂😂
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But you don't. And in America we're free.. Free to ride our machines and not be hassled by The Man..
(https://i.ibb.co/kSL4QBh/07c61d0ad90557952bf658d75755da96-henry-fonda-film-noir.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kSL4QBh)
And long may it remain so. I have dealt with tiered licensing, endless bureaucracy, $3K for a car license and $2-3K additional for a motorcycle license, and so on, quite enough for this lifetime.
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During my trip last week I saw a guy riding a midsized bike. He had a sign on his back that said "New Rider." I had never seen that before. I thought it was a good idea.
kk
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Maybe this is where the ever elusive concept of common sense comes into play :grin:
Dusty
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Good points all
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But you don't. And in America we're free.. Free to ride our machines and not be hassled by The Man..
(https://i.ibb.co/kSL4QBh/07c61d0ad90557952bf658d75755da96-henry-fonda-film-noir.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kSL4QBh)
Right on man
(https://thefilmstage.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/12olock-759x500.png)
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During my trip last week I saw a guy riding a midsized bike. He had a sign on his back that said "New Rider." I had never seen that before. I thought it was a good idea.
kk
I prefer having a sign saying "Smile, you are being recorded."
When I wear my GoPro on the top of my helmet, people tend to give me a wide berth. Unfortunately, girls stopped lifting their shirts, so there is a downside. :laugh:
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Right on man
(https://thefilmstage.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/12olock-759x500.png)
But, not free to break the law and current rules of the road.
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But, not free to break the law and current rules of the road.
What happened to "And in America we're free.. Free to ride our machines and not be hassled by The Man.."?
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What happened to "And in America we're free.. Free to ride our machines and not be hassled by The Man.."?
That wasn't my statement. Without some law and order many more innocent people would lose their lives because of the recklessness of others.
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That wasn't my statement. Without some law and order many more innocent people would lose their lives because of the recklessness of others.
Ok, so we do need the Man to hassle some riders in the land of the free.
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There are always those few that lack common sense and/or just don't give a crap. Some just kill or mame themselves, some take down others with themselves. In the glider world I can legally obtain my license in a very low performance and forgiving glider and then the next day go out and buy and try to fly a very sophisticated self launching motor glider. Good idea, NOT! Vast majority of pilots know better. Motorcyclist should know better. Not good to go from a Trail 90 to a Bussa.
(https://i.ibb.co/tPk4dfC/Screen-Shot-2020-07-29-at-1-11-00-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/tPk4dfC)
(https://i.ibb.co/ScD8L0X/Screen-Shot-2020-07-29-at-1-13-13-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/ScD8L0X)
GliderJohn
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Ok, so we do need the Man to hassle some riders in the land of the free.
Whatever you say. :rolleyes:
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Whatever you say. :rolleyes:
Yep
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<sigh> We've had this discussion before , Wild Guzzi isn't the place to fix the world's ills .
Dusty