Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kaladin on September 26, 2022, 11:18:47 AM
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The manual for my 2007 Norge says that I shouldn't sit at the stoplight in gear with the clutch pulled in. As usual for user's manuals, it doesn't say why.
In the old days of clutch cables it was extra safe to put it in neutral in case the cable snapped, but I don't think that is the reasoning with thy hydraulic clutch.
Any ideas?
-k
updated subject line - R59
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Norge? LOL so you dont have to hear the clutch plates chattering! (In the words of my dad- "If my motorcycle made that noise, I believe I'd take it to a mechanic!")
Honestly I have no idea. I always shift down to first and hold the clutch in unless I am at a 'known' extra-long light. Maybe the italian manual writers dont know about crazy US drivers and road rage. I prefer to be in gear and ready to move if someone comes screaming up behind me or other such instances
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I think it’s a general rule for dry clutches.
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Early in my riding, I was taught to keep it in gear and the clutch in, pointed in a safe direction and watching my mirrors so I could quickly escape someone who was about to rear-end me. I still do it, but only until there is a car stopped behind me.
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Dirk is right , this is good advice for any dry clutch. Don't keep your clutch lever pulled for extended periods. Why? Dry clutches have a clutch bearing.
(https://i.ibb.co/GPnySq9/clutch-bearing.png) (https://ibb.co/GPnySq9)
The bearing only spins when you pull in the clutch lever. These bearing will wear out prematurely if you keep the clutch lever in at every stop light.
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C'mon folks. There are splines in the clutch and intermediate plates that are free to rattle back and forth when the lever is pulled in. It's because of the 270 degree firing order. They will eat up the transmission input gear and flywheel. Simple. Once you are no shit sure there's nobody about to hit you from behind at a light, bump it into neutral and release the lever. All those parts will thank you.
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My Convert says: "Pffft", I don't need no stinkin' neutral." :grin:
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Thanks, I was hoping to be enlightened, and I was.
So even in Neutral with the clutch pulled in is wearing the mechanism.
k
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My Convert says: "Pffft", I don't need no stinkin' neutral." :grin:
The Convert user's manual recommends not looking too smug when stopped at a stoplight.
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The Convert user's manual recommends not looking too smug when stopped at a stoplight.
in addition to waving with your left hand whenever you want to....
Mark
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:popcorn:
Regarding the Vert departure…
I’ve advocated stomping on the foot brake…
“Open throttle fully…” per owner’s manual !!!
“Release brake..” again per owner’s manual !!!
Just to check full acceleration :cool:
Oh and then the queen’s wave with the left hand…I definitely left hordes of bikers scratching their heads at Marcus Dairy
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For me its a carry over from driving strait shift cars :
Go from high gear to neutral without using the clutch as you stop.
Don't use the "throw-out-bearing/clutch" no more than necessary.
When the light is changing , then and only then press the clutch and put it in gear.
To change the "Throw-out-bearing" means to separate the transmission and clutch housing. Who wants to do all that ?
What worse than having to work on your vehicle ?
Paying somebody to work on your vehicle ! :laugh:
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To change the "Throw-out-bearing" means to separate the transmission and clutch housing.
On a Norge?
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C'mon folks. There are splines in the clutch and intermediate plates that are free to rattle back and forth when the lever is pulled in. It's because of the 270 degree firing order. They will eat up the transmission input gear and flywheel. Simple. Once you are no shit sure there's nobody about to hit you from behind at a light, bump it into neutral and release the lever. All those parts will thank you.
And I watch for the cross traffic light to turn yellow and then put in first so I am ready to go, unless I am further back from the light, in which case I have time to put into gear before the cars in front of me are moving.
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Wait! What?
My Convert doesn't have a Neutral?
My Eldo certainly had more than one neutral!
TOMB
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I like to keep the bike in neutral then put it in gear just before the light changes.
Reasons: I do not want to keep the clutch pulled in for long periods, my hand can cramp up.
Also when I put it in first I know what gear I am in. It is not happy to try to start in 2nd.
I also think the clutch internal parts have less wear when in neutral, especially the throw out bering.
Another reason is I like the happy little green light on the dash shining up at me.
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Keeping the clutch pulled in at the lights is simply not good mechanical practice...I'm astounded that people seem to frequently do this in the US.In Europe you would never pass a license test if you did it and as others have pointed out it's a sure way to wear out the clutch release bearings and more.
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Frenchfrog,
IIRR, being in gear at a stop light is the riders safety course way of doing it. It appears that Europe disagrees.
But then... A question that used to be and maybe still is for the written motorcycle drivers test in California was that if your throttle got stuck (don't think it said WO or not) would you... and a multiple choice. One was to shut the bike off. BEEPP wrong answer. Pull in the clutch is the correct answer. Nothing in the answer said pull in clutch and shut bike off, just pull in clutch. So, remember, if you throttle ever sticks according to Ca. DMV, pull clutch and blow your engine!
FWIW, If at a short time light (like you just saw your direction left turn light go and you just pulled up to the traffic), in gear. If at a light that I know takes some time, neutral.
JMHO,
Tom
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My MSF course taught us to stay in gear and pull the clutch in at lights. I've been doing it that way ever since.
I think by the time I I found neutral after shifting back and forth from 1st to 2nd the light would have changed anyway and I could be on my merry way. LOL.
-AJ
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To change the "Throw-out-bearing" means to separate the transmission and clutch housing. Who wants to do all that ?
Not on a Guzzi. LoopFrame or Tonti you just pull the swingarm and the clutch bearing is staring you in the face.
On my vintage Guzzi singles, the clutch bearing comes off without any tools in about five seconds. Oh, you need a rag to clean your greasy fingers.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Not on a Guzzi. LoopFrame or Tonti you just pull the swingarm and the clutch bearing is staring you in the face.
I sure hope that is true of the V7II "if" I ever have to replace the clutch bearing on mine . :smiley:
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Well if you are taught to pull in the clutch instead of snitching into neutral then I understand that most riders would do that ...but it still makes little sense from a mechanical point of view.I guess that the USA Clutch Manufacturer's Association must have had someone good doing their lobbying :grin:
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I was taught to put the gearbox in neutral too (UK). Same with cars too. As for being rear-ended the advice is to show the stoplight until another vehicle pulls up behind. I tend to put in neutral as I come to a stop. As ever though the “it depends” qualification comes into play. Often one can assess how long it will be before the lights change, in which case I’ll hold it in first for a brief period.
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I'm always in gear at a stoplight.
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You all seem to be talking about bikes with a neutral indicator that indicates neutral and a gearbox that predictably renders up neutral on the first try. I thought this was a Guzzi forum.... :grin:
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What's a neutral indicator ?! :grin:
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What's a neutral indicator ?! :grin:
It's a little green lamp in the middle of the gauge cluster "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"
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This topic is just too tempting to NOT weigh in on.
I am in the "put it in neutral" camp.
Like many oldsters here, I was taught to put it in neutral based on the theory of not wearing out the throwout bearing on a car/truck. Same logic applies with a motorcycle, which DOES have a throwout bearing of sorts.
But imagine yourself sitting at the head of the line with cross-traffic in front of you, on a dynamic system with 60+ HP of latent energy being held back by your squeezed hand, and the clutch cable/hyd line:
A. Frays and snaps that last wire that kept it operational
B. Looses the crimped ball-end because it was defective from the manufacturer
C. Hyd clutch line fails under pressure at a weak point that has been weakening for a long time with no symptoms
D. You have a sudden muscle spasm, stroke, or any other malady that causes you to release the clutch lever
As we say in the aircraft biz: Bad things happen fast.
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I stay in gear at lights until the cars behind me are fully stopped. Not harmful for a minute or two, but holding the clutch in on any vehicle will create wear to the throwout bearing and mechanism. Catastrophic? Nah, but wear all the same. Always better to sit and idle in neutral.
I love the chinkalingaring sounds my Griso and 1200 Sport make when the clutch lever is pulled. Still remember Dave Richardsons face when the first time I pulled the clutch and immediately released in surprise. "That's normal, only be worried if it doesn't make that noise... It's a dual plate dry clutch..."
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I am in the put it in neutral when the coast is clear. I had a very early R75/5 that broke clutch cables quite often. That is a wake up call at a light for sure. There was a sharp bend in the cable at the lever that would fray the cable. I modified it but it didn't help much. I tried to keep an eye on it but would get complacent and it would always break at a light.
kk
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Me too for the put her in neutral camp. Mostly a habit cause you weren't putting a Shovel in neutral once you're stopped.
The guys that say they're in gear so they can avoid a car rear ending them are the same ones that say they "laid her down on purpose"
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For me it depends on the length of the red light. Short ones I sometimes leave it in gear. Long ones I put it in neutral. Mainly so I can relax and don't have to hold the clutch the whole time. I read somewhere that for the wet clutches its no big deal to leave it in gear at lights, but its better to use neutral when you can with the dry ones.
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humm....
Why is it so difficult... careful lift from first.... blip of green light... clicks into 2nd.... $%^#&# biscuits... careful push down... blip of green light.... clicks into first... $%^#&# biscuits...
repeat until signal has changed, launch in second...
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humm....
Why is it so difficult... careful lift from first.... blip of green light... clicks into 2nd.... $%^#&# biscuits... careful push down... blip of green light.... clicks into first... $%^#&# biscuits...
repeat until signal has changed, launch in second...
The first honest post in this thread....
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In the last couple of days I am becoming more adapt at getting it into neutral.
But, how often does the throw-out bearing go bad?
And why doesn't the wet clutch have the same issue?
kaladin
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I read somewhere that for the wet clutches its no big deal to leave it in gear at lights, but its better to use neutral when you can with the dry ones.
Wet clutch run in a bath of oil, along with the trough out bearing, so non-issue.
Dry clutch suffers from a much longer history....
early cars used oil impregnated bearing material, like bronze of phenolics... these are rubbing surfaces that did wear-out over time (and not a long time), This type of bearing was used up to the early 60's but some went longer (like Renault Dauphine) These were later replaced with sealed rolling element designs and they typically outlasted multiple clutches. This type is still used today in standard transmission cars and trucks (and im guessing a Guzzi)
There are of coarse some exceptions, my '95 3/4 ton Chevy used steel balls in a plastic housing, that was activated by a plastic hydraulic master and a plastic slave cylinder coupled by a plastic line... ALL CRAP !
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humm....
Why is it so difficult... careful lift from first.... blip of green light... clicks into 2nd.... $%^#&# biscuits... careful push down... blip of green light.... clicks into first... $%^#&# biscuits...
repeat until signal has changed, launch in second...
Hilarious and scarily accurate
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humm....
Why is it so difficult... careful lift from first.... blip of green light... clicks into 2nd.... $%^#&# biscuits... careful push down... blip of green light.... clicks into first... $%^#&# biscuits...
repeat until signal has changed, launch in second...
Am I the only person that cannot understand the point here ?
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Am I the only person that cannot understand the point here ?
The rider keeps blowing past the neutral detent (and cursing) and is repeatedly cycling between first and second as he sits at the light.
I use the heel and toe simultaneously on the heel & toe shifter to select gears (and neutrals) with precision.
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The rider keeps blowing past the neutral detent (and cursing) and is repeatedly cycling between first and second as he sits at the light.
I use the heel and toe simultaneously on the heel & toe shifter to select gears (and neutrals) with precision.
Ahhh ok… :grin:
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Being in First with clutch disengaged has saved me from one rear end collision. I heard the squealing tires and did a fast exit. The sleepy rider who was following got it stopped in the position I had occupied a second previously.
But if there's a couple of solid vehicles stopped behind me and the light has any duration I'll select neutral.
At least on the V11, T3 and Ural replacing a throw out bearing is no big deal. Pull the cotter on the clutch lever retaining pin. Remove the lever and pull the throw out bearing out the back of the transmission and slide in a new one. All this is done with a fully assembled bike on the center stand (sidestand would work too). 20 minutes out of your life.
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The detents on my Guzzis are a lot softer than other bikes I have ridden. It just takes a gentle touch. If the clutch is mal-adjusted all bets are off. I really like the clutch and transmission in my V7lll, they were also excellent in my departed Audace.
kk
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I usually keep it in gear at the light with the clutch level pulled in. I only do this because I find it very difficult to go from Neutral to 1st gear when the bike is first started and it was just habit for me to keep it in gear at lights for fear of not being able to get it in gear once the light goes green. I'm going to play around with going from neutral to 1st once the bike is warmed up and see if that helps out. I've also read on here that putting a bit of pressure on the shifter before you pull in the clutch cable might help it find 1st.
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Evidently, few of us posting here rode British motorcycles in those thrilling days of yesteryear. If you attempted to ride your Triumph, BSA or what-have-you across town and held the clutch released at the first stoplight, you no longer HAD a clutch as you continued your ride. So you waited at lights in neutral every time. You found that neutral before you came to a stop. It formed like a habit deep down in your soul...and decades after you rode your last bike with the shift lever on the right, you could NOT sit at a light with the clutch disengaged. Not for love, nor for money.
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This topic is just too tempting to NOT weigh in on.
I am in the "put it in neutral" camp.
Like many oldsters here, I was taught to put it in neutral based on the theory of not wearing out the throwout bearing on a car/truck. Same logic applies with a motorcycle, which DOES have a throwout bearing of sorts.
But imagine yourself sitting at the head of the line with cross-traffic in front of you, on a dynamic system with 60+ HP of latent energy being held back by your squeezed hand, and the clutch cable/hyd line:
A. Frays and snaps that last wire that kept it operational
B. Looses the crimped ball-end because it was defective from the manufacturer
C. Hyd clutch line fails under pressure at a weak point that has been weakening for a long time with no symptoms
D. You have a sudden muscle spasm, stroke, or any other malady that causes you to release the clutch lever
As we say in the aircraft biz: Bad things happen fast.
At idle there's only enough power to keep the engine ticking over. If the cable breaks it will just stall. Maybe it'll lurch and you fall over.
Does anyone have data available on bearing failures?
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Evidently, few of us posting here rode British motorcycles in those thrilling days of yesteryear. If you attempted to ride your Triumph, BSA or what-have-you across town and held the clutch released at the first stoplight, you no longer HAD a clutch as you continued your ride. So you waited at lights in neutral every time. You found that neutral before you came to a stop. It formed like a habit deep down in your soul...and decades after you rode your last bike with the shift lever on the right, you could NOT sit at a light with the clutch disengaged. Not for love, nor for money.
I'm going to test the bike going from neutral to first when it's warm and see what the success rate is. When cold and first starting up, getting the bike from N to 1st is a chore. I select 1st, hear a slight click, release clutch and nothing. I go back to N, try to get into first with no luck. I rock the bike back and forth and it eventually goes in. This is why I usually stay in 1st gear with the clutch lever in at lights as I'm terrified of going to neutral, light turns green and I can't get it back into first and someone rear ends me.
Perhaps it will go back into first better once everything is warmed up
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This is when the clutch cable usually breaks, has happened to me 3 times while waiting for a lite.
"62000, had the lites against me all the way"(Bud Lite Commercial from 80's) "How many lites in the sky?"
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My useless 2¢ worth...
I'm in the neutral until traffic signal turns green camp, mostly out of habit and to prevent excessive wear on drive line components designed for intermittent duty. I try to be aware of what is happening behind me when I'm waiting for a light to change. So the car behind you is stopped....what about the car behind that car? And on and on and on.
If I were waiting for a signal to go green, was in gear (or not) and realized I was about to get rearended my hopes would be to determine an exit strategy that gets me out of harms way without putting me in cross traffic (against the traffic signal). I have not read or heard of someone (time permitting) avoiding a rear ender (yet).
Last May I was rear ended at a red traffic signal. In retrospect, I'm glad I didn't see it coming, I would have probably tensed up and made my recovery more difficult. And, my options for and exit were slim if I did realize I was about to get hit. The intersection had offset roads coming into it. On my right there was a building on the corner that was a width of a sidewalk from the road I was on...basically a blind corner where on coming traffic from the right could not be seen. The other road into this offset intersection was below grade and rose up steeply to the intersection making it difficult to see traffic coming from that direction. I can only imagine the world of hurt had I realized I was about to get hit, moved into the intersection not knowing what was coming from the right or left that was trying (speeding) to make it through a stale green light or hard yellow.
Oh well, getting back to the original post...I'm for neutral but for those who like to hold it at a light, I say whatever floats your boat.
Also, in the 50+years of riding I have fortunately never had a clutch cable nor hydraulics failure.
To all, a safe, healthy, happy, properous riding season!
Art
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I'm in neutral at lights too. The Bassa neutral, for some reason, can be hard to find. But finding first from neutral has never been an issue with any of my bikes.
I try to stop off-set from the vehicle ahead just to avoid being squished if it comes to that. I have been rear-ended (in a cage) when the car behind me was rear-ended and in turn bumped me.
I'd rather not wear the throw-out bearing and put extra strain on the clutch cable. If I need to get out of there quickly, flicking into first takes only a moment. But when I was rear-ended, I had no clue it was about to happen.
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My
[SNIP]I have not read or heard of someone (time permitting) avoiding a rear ender (yet).
[SNIP]
Art
Riding lead with a friend a few years back I was stopped for a red light and I heard the squeal of tires on pavement. Grabbed throttle and dumped the clutch. Thank goodness no cross traffic. Stopped across the street and looked back. He was parked where I had been stopped. Being in first gear saved me that one time.
I'm usually in neutral to save the throwout and thrust bearings in the system.
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Personal choice and very dependent on the situation. In Pinellas County Florida, the stop lights are from 3 to 5 minutes. I turn the engine off while waiting. Get comfortable, send a couple of text message, check the weather, order Uber Eats and clean the wind screen. Life is short, make the most of it.
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Are these bearings an issue with machines used in heavy urban traffic? Lot more time with load on the bearing just from shifting alone.
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No one has mentioned that disengaging the clutch places the thrust bearing at the front of the crankshaft under load. Wonder how long that bearing lasts?
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I'm going to test the bike going from neutral to first when it's warm and see what the success rate is. When cold and first starting up, getting the bike from N to 1st is a chore. I select 1st, hear a slight click, release clutch and nothing. I go back to N, try to get into first with no luck. I rock the bike back and forth and it eventually goes in. This is why I usually stay in 1st gear with the clutch lever in at lights as I'm terrified of going to neutral, light turns green and I can't get it back into first and someone rear ends me.
Perhaps it will go back into first better once everything is warmed up
With clutch lever pulled in, press down on the gear lever and keep it pressed down, then slowly let out about 1/3 of the clutch travel. The bike will slip into 1st gear.
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I mostly keep the clutch lever pulled in while stopped at lights, and have never had a clutch or bearing issue in nearly thirty years of riding Guzzis.
I believe it is safer to be in gear and ready to go, if needed.
I will occasionally slip it into neutral at a light, if the wait is long, and there is a long line of cars behind me. If no cars, or a few cars are behind me, I'm leaving it in 1st and watching the mirrors.
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Enter the Hendon Shuffle
Hendon is where the police motorcyclists are trained in the UK and I believe that this is still current
Essentially when stopped you have the bike out of gear and held stationary with the foot brake and left foot on the ground
To pull away you hold the bike with the hard brake, switch feet (hence the shuffle) to engage the gear and pull away
https://longrider.co.uk/blog/2012/08/25/starting-stopping-and-thoughts-on-the-hendon-shuffle/
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I always go to neutral, if I don't my hands go to sleep hanging on the the ape hangers. :thumb:
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Jeez I had no idea it was so complicated..
My ‘07 Norge has 220,000 km and the clutch has never seen the light of day, because I do this..
Roll up to the light and at about walking pace, snick it into neutral and do the last couple of metres on gentle front brake with your right foot skimming the surface.
Leave your left foot hovering near the gear lever, but UNDER it, not above, this is so there is no delay if you need a gear immediately.
When you go to engage first, wait a couple of seconds before engaging and it will go in silently, then slide the clutch out at about 2,500 rpm and apply the throttle when the clutch is “home”.
As for the uneven firing intervals (not order), you can carry a couple of hundred rpm on the throttle, but I don’t bother.
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No one has mentioned that disengaging the clutch places the thrust bearing at the front of the crankshaft under load. Wonder how long that bearing lasts?
Does it..? :popcorn:
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You are applying the pressure to compress the springs against the pockets in the flywheel. Flywheel presses on the crankshaft. Crankshaft absorbs the thrust.
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You are applying the pressure to compress the springs against the pockets in the flywheel. Flywheel presses on the crankshaft. Crankshaft absorbs the thrust.
Ahh yes.
By disengaging, you are (correctly) saying that the lever is in…
Thanks.
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I had the clutch cable snap while waiting at a red light on my Cagiva Tamanaco. I nearly dropped the bike from the shock of it, but the bike just stalled and I pushed it through the intersection and off to the side once the light changed.
My experience riding with Italians is that they don't stop and wait at stop lights anyway. They stop, look both ways, and continue through lol
I keep any bike, even dry clutch Ducatis, in gear at a light unless I expect it to be a long stop (construction, train) or once I see the vehicle behind me has stopped and provided some assurance I won't be run over from behind.
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As one person already pointed out, it can sometimes be challenging to find neutral when the engine is running (on my 2016 V7 II it is). Engine off no problem. Do I want to fiddle around endlessly at a stop light looking for neutral? No. Do I want to shut the bike off at a stop light? No. So if it doesn't flip into neutral after one or two tries, I just leave the clutch pulled in. Not a problem.
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As one person already pointed out, it can sometimes be challenging to find neutral when the engine is running (on my 2016 V7 II it is). Engine off no problem. Do I want to fiddle around endlessly at a stop light looking for neutral? No. Do I want to shut the bike off at a stop light? No. So if it doesn't flip into neutral after one or two tries, I just leave the clutch pulled in. Not a problem.
Why not grab neutral while still in motion ? (5 mph or so…)
I used to do that with my Darmah.
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really?
neutral saves the clutch, being in gear gives a quick out in case there's someone running over you.
Perhaps neutral and your eyes in the mirrors and a lane to proceed?
:huh:
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Neutral doesn't save the clutch, just the throw out bearings (and a bit of your wrist).
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No one has mentioned that disengaging the clutch places the thrust bearing at the front of the crankshaft under load. Wonder how long that bearing lasts?
Having owned several vehicles with engines that have had weak thrust bearings, this is the #1 reason why I always put my manual transmission cars and motorcycles in neutral while waiting at a stop light.
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As one person already pointed out, it can sometimes be challenging to find neutral when the engine is running (on my 2016 V7 II it is). Engine off no problem. Do I want to fiddle around endlessly at a stop light looking for neutral? No. Do I want to shut the bike off at a stop light? No. So if it doesn't flip into neutral after one or two tries, I just leave the clutch pulled in. Not a problem.
Why not fix the actual problem - i.e. adjust the clutch so you can find Neutral.
I mean that's been my solution on plenty of smallblocks I've ridden, even demo bikes from two different dealers.
The factory spec is just a little too loose and if there's any sign of it not quite fully releasing when the lever hits the grip it can be, as you say, challenging (mostly when hot, but if really out cold too).
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Enter the Hendon Shuffle
Hendon is where the police motorcyclists are trained in the UK and I believe that this is still current
Essentially when stopped you have the bike out of gear and held stationary with the foot brake and left foot on the ground
To pull away you hold the bike with the hard brake, switch feet (hence the shuffle) to engage the gear and pull away
https://longrider.co.uk/blog/2012/08/25/starting-stopping-and-thoughts-on-the-hendon-shuffle/
That's what I do, didn't know it had a 'name'
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Enter the Hendon Shuffle
Hendon is where the police motorcyclists are trained in the UK and I believe that this is still current
Essentially when stopped you have the bike out of gear and held stationary with the foot brake and left foot on the ground
To pull away you hold the bike with the hard brake, switch feet (hence the shuffle) to engage the gear and pull away
https://longrider.co.uk/blog/2012/08/25/starting-stopping-and-thoughts-on-the-hendon-shuffle/
I didn't know there was a name for what I do most of the time. If I am only going to be at the light for a few seconds I leave it in gear. All depends on what is or is not behind me.
kk
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Neutral doesn't save the clutch, just the throw out bearings (and a bit of your wrist).
No, that's not entirely correct.
The plates themselves might not get any extra wear but the splines in the flywheel and clutch hub will be getting banged around far more than if in neutral.Given the pita to change these parts and the expense....
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Neutral (with clutch released) saves the splines in the flywheel. I still hear the transmission input splines and the gears in the box racking back and forth against the power pulses.
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If I ever have to put a clutch in my Norge, I’ll give it a new shaft as well.
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On a small block I go to neutral because the crankshaft thrust bearing on the rear of the crankshaft is feeble. On a big block it is not a problem. The throw out bearings on the rear of the transmission have been trouble free in my experience.
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I put it in neutral at a light when everyone is stopped behind me. I never had an issue putting in gear on any of my bikes even getting caught in neutral even when I get caught when the light changes. All my bikes (V50, V11, Griso8v & V7 850) went into neutral no problem. I only put it in neutral when there is no threat and if i have any fear that I may need to blast off out of the way then I leave it in gear...Or if I am on a hill like in San Francisco then 1st gear it is...
Tony C
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Why not fix the actual problem - i.e. adjust the clutch so you can find Neutral.
That might be the problem, though in my case it's a high idle, that won't come down any lower. When the engine is cold, it idles slower and getting into neutral isn't a problem.
Also, I've never had a problem getting into first from neutral. A fast get-away? No problem. Clutch in, snick into first, blip throttle, GO!
Since I wrote this posting, I rode the bike again today and realized the difficulty shifting into neutral from first or second has nothing to do with the idle or the clutch. With engine off it's still difficult finding neutral.