Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: rocker59 on September 14, 2023, 04:27:38 PM
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May as well start a thread for it. It's on the way...
(https://i.ibb.co/HK6JTDW/v100-california.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HK6JTDW)
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Sign me up. Done right it could be fantastic.
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Zero interest in the potential Stelvio or the V100, but a California would strike my fancy.
-AJ
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Stop.It.
I haven’t even picked up my new V85 yet......
:shocked:
inditx
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfE9qdn653Q
A new pronunciation for Guzzi, lol.... :tongue:
inditx
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? nothing official? I suppose the V100 is the only platform they have?
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It's good to see Guzzi to innovate, even though I'm no fan of the v100, but I can't help but think they're missing out on a substantial market in full on retro models, as close to the original spec as possible with as few modifications as is possible, with the exception of scrapping all plastic chrome and replacing with quality chromed steel (I've always said that about all Guzzi's :grin:
I'm thinking along the lines of Royal Enfield, AJS, etc, I imagine if Guzzi reproduced, authentically, classic iconic models such as the Lemans, T3, ___ insert your favourite model here____, they'd sell on the retro market.
I'd have thought a good few of the guzzisti would be keen if they really were straight replicas, and I think such iconic machine would be enough to tempt a good few non guzzi riders who like the retro look and feel.
It's not as if it'd lower the price on genuine originals from yesteryear, and it's not as if they couldn't carry on innovating and developing new lines at the same time, and I wouldn't have thought the costs would be too high, compared to possible rewards, to produce a few in whichever models, and put them out on show, and see what interest they'd generate.
Alright, I never buy new bikes, and I am biased, as I prefer the old school look, but there's a lot of us about, as you can tell by the average age of motorcyclists :grin:
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Oof, that would bottom out the used Cali/EV/Calvin/1400 prices--those pics of concepts look kinda nice---
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Oof, that would bottom out the used Cali/EV/Calvin/1400 prices--those pics of concepts look kinda nice---
How could they get much lower?? I bought a pristine 2004 Cal EVT for $3500 last year, which was top of the market. Flat Tappet EVs have been available in the $2500 range for a few years, now.
A new V100 California will be a modern motorcycle in the $12k to $15k range, and attracting customers from more modern motorcycles than the old California 1100 variants a few of us still ride.
As for the 1400s, there are not many around. It may drive the prices down, as the ones I've seen lately for sale are quite optimistic. I guess the Cal14 owners are in for some hurt when the bikes they're asking $10k for struggle to sell for $5k.
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Same.bought my 04 this year for slightly less (needed tyres). 16K miles, hydro & clutch all good
Still, there is a dealer not far away that has an 01 for 8900, that has >35k miles :rolleyes: And the usual FB and CL "I know what I got no lowballers" :laugh:
Could give some hard competition to the Indian Scout/HD Sportser/1200 Triumph Bonneville, if and when--I think they will come out with something, after the Stelvio rollout--next year?
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That video is a couple of Ober Bezzi (suck) renderings of a V100 spliced together with pictures and video of the California 1400. Those renderings are some ones hobby and not from Guzzi. The video is useless.
Is the cruiser market segment still big enough for Guzzi to make another Cali? Could be neat.
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Yeah you could tell my pronouncing it Gucci lol
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I don't see it "replacing" the Tour. I do know that you can Tour on a 1100 as my E99 EV has 163,000 miles, but I don't think it will go in that market. Just not big enough. And they need a dealer network to support it also. I'm VERY lucky to have a dealer 35 miles away but not having a better network will keep some people from them! :popcorn:
IMHO only
YMMV
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Zero interest in the potential Stelvio or the V100, but a California would strike my fancy.
-AJ
I hope they give a classic look. So far the Mandello and Stelvio do NOTHING for me but to look away...
That new Corsa on the other hand..............
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Oof, that would bottom out the used Cali/EV/Calvin/1400 prices--those pics of concepts look kinda nice---
All the 1100 cali models are already by far the best value in the Guzzi world, and I cant really seeing a new bike effect that to any large degree. I wonder if there is a market for another import cruzer in todays age? Then again back in the day they needed to look like a HD to be looked at... today the HD's dont even look like HD's [RIP Sportster :(] so maybe its a better market for them? I just hope they do it well.
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For what it is worth. I have owned a 1400 twice now. The monster torque is the real calling card for that motor. No matter how much they try to "retune" the V100 engine, it simply will not pull the way the 1400 does. Based on the less than successful experiment that BMW tried about 20 years ago with their 1200C models, Americans seem to prefer the torque first type of power plants for their cruisers. Now, I think a Norge version of that engine would be a great idea.
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For what it is worth. I have owned a 1400 twice now. The monster torque is the real calling card for that motor. No matter how much they try to "retune" the V100 engine, it simply will not pull the way the 1400 does. Based on the less than successful experiment that BMW tried about 20 years ago with their 1200C models, Americans seem to prefer the torque first type of power plants for their cruisers. Now, I think a Norge version of that engine would be a great idea.
I agree with this completely. The fast reving nature of the v100 motor would be weird in a cruiser . The lack of the freight train feel of all the rotating mass of the 1400 motor, flywheel, clutch ect. would be sadly missed.
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We talk as if the 1400 was a torque monster compared to others in its class. I’ve not ridden one, but many unpaid rider reviews noted it revs higher than your typical Harley, which is to be expected given the bore/stroke. That said, specs-wise, the V100 puts out more power AND more torque than an Indian Scout (albeit more torque at 1200+ more RPM); and the Scout is a great deal heavier than a V100 in its sport touring styling. A cruiser-style V100 would probably be a little heavier, but I doubt it’ll reach the girth of the Scout, the newer liquid-cooled Sportster, or the BMW R18. So, the performance should be there to compete. They just need to engineer a torquey engine sound ;)
PS—if Americans are so hung up on torquey cruisers, then why isn’t that R18 making a solid profit? Out of all the cruisers, it’s probably got more “American” cruiser heart and especially lots of low end torque—much more and much lower than the newer liquid cooled bikes. I think we’re in a new era where the gobs of grunt at low end is being phased out because the liquid cooling allows for more high-revving performance, the water-cooled way. My amateur uneducated opinion, at least.
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It seems everybody has forgotten that the new V100 engine was originally designed to be a 1300CC. If Guzzi were to break out of the too heavy lead sled pig, peg dragging monstrosity mold everybody else is stuck in it just might sell. Think of a modern EV with 100 pounds less weight.
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I think a mid weight tourer would be great but here lies the issue, for me anyway.
I had the 1400 tourer. Yes it had a great motor but that was the only plus it had, as a tourer and not just a cruiser, there’s a difference.
True touring motorcycles offer a full set of bags, including a top case. They offer a total weather elements package including a full fairing, lowers, sound system and a complete comfort package for the second rider. My 1400 tourer offered none of those touring requirements, that I need in a tourer anyway.
So if MG cannot offer a true tourer they might as well not offer one at all.
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PS—if Americans are so hung up on torquey cruisers, then why isn’t that R18 making a solid profit? Out of all the cruisers, it’s probably got more “American” cruiser heart and especially lots of low end torque—much more and much lower than the newer liquid cooled bikes.
It's ugly as sin :grin:
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I think a mid weight tourer would be great but here lies the issue, for me anyway.
True touring motorcycles offer a full set of bags, including a top case. They offer a total weather elements package including a full fairing, lowers, sound system and a complete comfort package for the second rider...... So if MG cannot offer a true tourer they might as well not offer one at all.
I didn't know this, I always considered my Road King, Cali 1400, and Gold Wing to be "true tourers"? But none of them have a full fairing with lowers, or a trunk (but a DryBag holds just as much when needed). No sound system on the RK or Cali either, the Goldwing does have a radio but it's never been on.
I'd give a serious look at a V100 California if done right with hard panniers, shield, comfy seat, heated grips, and cruise. Last place I want weight on my tourer is up high and behind the rear wheel but offer an optional trunk with backrest for the ones who don't care or those who carry a passenger.
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I didn't know this, I always considered my Road King, Cali 1400, and Gold Wing to be "true tourers"? But none of them have a full fairing with lowers, or a trunk (but a DryBag holds just as much when needed). No sound system on the RK or Cali either, the Goldwing does have a radio but it's never been on.
I'd give a serious look at a V100 California if done right with hard panniers, shield, comfy seat, heated grips, and cruise. Last place I want weight on my tourer is up high and behind the rear wheel but offer an optional trunk with backrest for the ones who don't care or those who carry a passenger.
If you’ll notice I ended with “ for me anyway”.
Technically one can “tour” on any motorcycle. Just ask HUZO🤔
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After selling my 1400 Eldorado a few years ago I purchased a 2018 Gold Wing non tour model. The Gold Wing was a great bike but it lacked soul. So I bought a 2020 California Touring in 2021. Then I traded the California and a 2016 BMW R1200R I owned for a 2022 Can Am Spyder RT Limited as I wanted to give my wife more comfort when touring. But I missed that 1400 big block engine and owning a MG. In June I found a 2016 Eldorado with only 1400 miles on it for $8000. Essentially a brand new bike. If you have owned any of the 1400cc models you know there is no other tourer/cruiser out there like the MG. To me it's obvious that MG abandoned the 1400cc engine not because they couldn't reach
Euro 5, they wanted and needed a new engine to build the brand on. The V100 is not a touring bike. That engine won't go into a true touring bike. Hang onto your 1400.
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I found the 1400 engine was calling me back. It does rev about 2 grand higher than the big twin and the victory I had in the past. I consider this it's secret weapon. you get an engine that is fun to ride at low revs and will be happy short shifting all day long, but when you have the need for speed, no other air cooled cruiser touches it from 5000 to 7000 and it is smooth as glass doing it. It will zip up to 100 with ease. With that said, there are probably less than 1,000 1400s in this country of all types, so its a dinosaur, but more of a triceratops than t-rex.
As for the BMW 1800, I had 4 BMWs over the years, all of the sport tour variety and they were excellent at that. I would not call the 1800 ugly as sin but it is not to my taste. I saw one at the Ohio rally, nicely finished, good stereo, makes my Eldo look like a middle weight which at a little over 700 lbs it is in the cruiser class where the road king weighs at least 100 lbs more.
To each their own.
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....The V100 is not a touring bike. That engine won't go into a true touring bike. Hang onto your 1400.
I agree, the V100 chassis probably will need changed or a lot of modification to be suitable in a Tourer. But some have said the V100 engine was designed to be up to 1300cc so I see this engine but enlarged to 1200-1300cc.
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We talk as if the 1400 was a torque monster compared to others in its class. I’ve not ridden one, but many unpaid rider reviews noted it revs higher than your typical Harley, which is to be expected given the bore/stroke. That said, specs-wise, the V100 puts out more power AND more torque than an Indian Scout (albeit more torque at 1200+ more RPM); and the Scout is a great deal heavier than a V100 in its sport touring styling. A cruiser-style V100 would probably be a little heavier, but I doubt it’ll reach the girth of the Scout, the newer liquid-cooled Sportster, or the BMW R18. So, the performance should be there to compete. They just need to engineer a torquey engine sound ;)
PS—if Americans are so hung up on torquey cruisers, then why isn’t that R18 making a solid profit? Out of all the cruisers, it’s probably got more “American” cruiser heart and especially lots of low end torque—much more and much lower than the newer liquid cooled bikes. I think we’re in a new era where the gobs of grunt at low end is being phased out because the liquid cooling allows for more high-revving performance, the water-cooled way. My amateur uneducated opinion, at least.
I have to say that what I liked about my 1400 (for the 9 months I owned it) was the fat full smooth turbine like torque. Was a fantastic motor visually overbuilt and stuck in a big fat frame. It is a shame they didn't use the motor as they did on the Griso/Norge/Stelvio/Breva as a stressed member and with a sporting suspension. I sold mine because I was looking at a hip and knee replacement and the idea of pushing an 800+ pound bike around just did NOT suit me.
As for that BMW thing............. I have a couple buddies with one. I rode one back to back with a big Indian Challanger and there was no comparison. The BMW was just weird and jugly and bizzare looking. Both bikes were way too heavy for MY likes, but I'd take the Indian over the German all day every day.
I think what people are saying is that the California is a 'cruiser' and the V100 though it reportedly has an old school Guzzi feel is far more high strung and clearly needs more displacement to be taken seriously as a cruiser or touring cruiser. We will see....
As I said above, the V100 offerings leave me cold so far..... The Corsa had me excited for a moment until I saw it was just another color scheme exercise on the V7 850. Upgraded suspension front and rear, and twin discs would be $$ on that. I think the motor is fine for that chassis and class of bike. CMON Guzzi.............
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To speak to your point, Bulldog. While at the Guzzi dealer today, I sat on the V100 again hoping that it would rev me up. I want to love it, but just can't seem to. It's like when you finally get the hot girl to go out with you and discover there is no spark there. They had a used Milano there and I sat on that and on an 850 v7 version. The 750 Milano felt like a dirt bike in size whereas the 850 definitely felt more substantial. For now, I will keep the 1400 until I can no longer push it around. It is heavy to paddle around, but at least the seat is low.
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Isn't the current bike a "tourer"? It's equipped with the luggage and all the goodies other than a sound system. It's not a heavy weight large displacement bike like a 'wing or RT. Just by making it a "Cali" with cruiser styling isn't going to change what it is.
What am I missing here? :embarrassed:
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I found the 1400 engine was calling me back. It does rev about 2 grand higher than the big twin and the victory I had in the past. I consider this it's secret weapon. you get an engine that is fun to ride at low revs and will be happy short shifting all day long, but when you have the need for speed, no other air cooled cruiser touches it from 5000 to 7000 and it is smooth as glass doing it. It will zip up to 100 with ease. With that said, there are probably less than 1,000 1400s in this country of all types, so its a dinosaur, but more of a triceratops than t-rex.
As for the BMW 1800, I had 4 BMWs over the years, all of the sport tour variety and they were excellent at that. I would not call the 1800 ugly as sin but it is not to my taste. I saw one at the Ohio rally, nicely finished, good stereo, makes my Eldo look like a middle weight which at a little over 700 lbs it is in the cruiser class where the road king weighs at least 100 lbs more.
To each their own.
That 1400 had great power curve for tourer. It had all the low punch of a Harley and another 2000 rpms for power. It was a nice machine that they gave up on. Just like they gave up on 1200 8v.
The new bike has really good punch. It's lighter weight bike that torque-y but revvy engine.
Apples and oranges for sure. But fo far as the 1400 it had it in spades over the Harleys and Indians. But reliability and newer Indians and Harleys and it was gone.
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HD and Indian touring bikes have quite a bit more torque than thy 1400, do to the significantly greater cc capacity.
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HD and Indian touring bikes have quite a bit more torque than thy 1400, do to the significantly greater cc capacity.
Not in my experience by the seat of the pants given when the bikes came out. I'm not talking numbers, I'm talking riding.
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That 1400 had great power curve for tourer. It had all the low punch of a Harley and another 2000 rpms for power. It was a nice machine that they gave up on. Just like they gave up on 1200 8v.
The new bike has really good punch. It's lighter weight bike that torque-y but revvy engine.
Apples and oranges for sure. But fo far as the 1400 it had it in spades over the Harleys and Indians. But reliability and newer Indians and Harleys and it was gone.
Wasn't dropping the big block engines due to an inability to meet ever tightening emission standards? Not so much giving up as being forced out.
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That's the official answer but, if it had been selling I'm sure they could have gotten at least 5 more years without too much effort.
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I have no interest in a liquid cooled motorcycle unless they keep it looking air cooled and hide the radiator, and plumbing well like Triumph has managed to do.
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May as well start a thread for it. It's on the way...
(https://i.ibb.co/HK6JTDW/v100-california.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HK6JTDW)
Patiently awaiting the return...
Piaggio: "New product launches and careful dealer stock management are planned for 2024."
I'm ready for some spy shots, or something!
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I suppose we all have different ideas as to what is a serious tourer. :rolleyes: For me it couldn't get more serious the the V100 Mandello with luggage (NOT a top box). I live in the UK, near to Europe, where in the words of a comedian "where the history comes from". :cheesy: I like curves and mountains, food and people, and different cultures when I can find them.
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https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/moto-guzzi-california-trademark-renewed/
Steven Rossi
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https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/moto-guzzi-california-trademark-renewed/
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Something about the name "California" denotes beautiful, warm, sunny, weather,and a feeling of all around pleasantness. I am not sure what they wanted to convey with the name "Nevada".... a "high roller" maybe?
Possibly if they want to convey a tough, in your face" street- wise" image, they will debut the Moto Guzzi V 100 New Jersey ? :cool:
I personally think they should build the Moto Guzzi V 100 Arizona Stone! :wink:
Rick.
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I personally think they should build the Moto Guzzi V 100 Arizona Stone! :wink:
Rick.
Arizona Stona sounds like a Frank Zappa song. :boozing:
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https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/moto-guzzi-california-trademark-renewed/
Steven Rossi
Thanks. I'm merging this into the existing California threadfest
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"Monster Cruiser!!" :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh: :wink: :bow: :thumb: :cool: :boozing:
(https://i.ibb.co/x3qs50T/Screenshot-2024-03-28-at-11-11-54-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/x3qs50T)
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This has got me wondering. I purchased a V100 not quite six months ago. I traded my Audace a couple of years ago because it got to be too much for me. I traded it for a T120, more of a middle weight cruiser type of bike. MG didn't make anything in that range. I already also had a V7lll but didn't think it suited me as a long distance tourer so when the V100 hit the market the T120 was traded for the V100. I am a Guzzi guy after all. The V100 isn't quite the bike for me but it fills the bill and I like it a lot. But now if they are going to build a California with the 100 motor it might be more to my liking if it isn't a heavy monster. But I am not trading again, I will ride my Mandello as long as I can and finish with my V7. But when the time comes maybe I will finish on a Vespa but I will probably be too far gone for one of those when I can't handle the V7 any longer. Getting old is the pits but it is better than the alternative.
kk
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May as well start a thread for it. It's on the way...
(https://i.ibb.co/HK6JTDW/v100-california.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HK6JTDW)
Almost a year since Guzzi released this teaser, and still we wait... :rolleyes:
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Was that an official Guzzi teaser? I don't think it was. It looks like someone took the wheels from the Stelvio teaser and put them into a homemade cal teaser?
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With the EFI and a few tweeks I am sure MG can make the V100 motor do and feel any way they want to. Triumph do it with the 120, with the Scrambler, Thruxton, T120, Bobber and Streetmaster.
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With the EFI and a few tweeks I am sure MG can make the V100 motor do and feel any way they want to. Triumph do it with the 120, with the Scrambler, Thruxton, T120, Bobber and Streetmaster.
Very true. I previously owned a Scrambler XE and then later a T120, both having the same engine and very greatly different character.
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(https://i.ibb.co/Bwnv9BZ/IMG-5465.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Bwnv9BZ)
Looks like the California is coming back.
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I saw that on Utube a ways back. Looks like a V100 motor photo shopped into a 1400 chassis. Has 1400 mufflers, dashboard, shocks among others. Wishfully thinking, maybe down the road though. Too late for me though, I am not buying anymore new motorcycles and would be too heavy anyway.
kk
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Very Poor Render............. .. Anyone else HATE these renderings that pollute the internet?
We know it is coming, but until I see it from Guzzi, it's all speculation and blaa blaa.
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Be careful what you think "Moparnut72" :evil:
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sgl0226, you fell for what looks like an Oberdan Bezzi concept. The guy has been around for a long time creating concepts of what-could-bes across various brands. I personally like seeing his various takes. They offer some inspiration for custom work.
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It's a photo shopped fantasy, and not a very good one. At least this isn't an AI rendering that almost looks real. Not a fan, It's getting old.
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Not to mention A IF it was coming for 2025, THAT'S something I would have expected to see at EICMA.
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Or at least a tease like they did with the Stelvio.
kk
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Very Poor Render............. .. Anyone else HATE these renderings that pollute the internet?
We know it is coming, but until I see it from Guzzi, it's all speculation and blaa blaa.
Yeah, I'd love to take Obi Boy's computer away from him.
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Yeah, I'd love to take Obi Boy's computer away from him.
I don’t get the negative response to Bezzi’s concept art. He’s not falsely claiming these are actual models coming out. I absolutely LOVE that we have conceptual artists putting out their own, personal, artistic takes, and subjectively speaking, many of his concepts are pretty good looking and can provide an inspiration for customization. Nothing different than a fashion artist, fan art creator, slash writer (look it up), etc.
Unless one simply feels that most of his concept art—choices that he’s making as an artist independently and creatively—is just crud to look at, I would think his stuff should be appreciated. At the very least, appreciate another human artist out there showing their stuff to the world for you all to consider and talk about ;)
Now—all the noobs and influencers—human or AI—who keep sharing his works and claiming these are actual models? They’re the ones causing that escalating eye twitch you’ve been experiencing over time :D
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IF you believe these, then the Chrysler 300 is coming back for 25 and the Monte Carlo is coming back too. Both are dead and buried.
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Guess I was all wrong. I didn't realize it was taken from someone else's art work. The title of the UTube was trying to make the viewer believe it was an up and coming model.
kk
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Guess I was all wrong. I didn't realize it was taken from someone else's art work. The title of the UTube was trying to make the viewer believe it was an up and coming model.
kk
And therein lies the problem with Obi Boy and his photoshop phantasy pfan ahrt.
For a long time I deleted every image of his that was posted here, but finally gave up. His phake crappola cut and paste "art" pollutes the whole of the internet. I wish he would find another hobby.
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I don’t get the negative response to Bezzi’s concept art. He’s not falsely claiming these are actual models coming out. I absolutely LOVE that we have conceptual artists putting out their own, personal, artistic takes, and subjectively speaking, many of his concepts are pretty good looking and can provide an inspiration for customization. Nothing different than a fashion artist, fan art creator, slash writer (look it up), etc.
Unless one simply feels that most of his concept art—choices that he’s making as an artist independently and creatively—is just crud to look at, I would think his stuff should be appreciated. At the very least, appreciate another human artist out there showing their stuff to the world for you all to consider and talk about ;)
Now—all the noobs and influencers—human or AI—who keep sharing his works and claiming these are actual models? They’re the ones causing that escalating eye twitch you’ve been experiencing over time :D
Obi Boy revels in the fact that his images are shared in a deceptive manor. No two ways about it. He sucks.
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I want to say :grin: I know it’s Winter when folks here are getting worked up about internet renderings that are not presented as the genuine article :boozing: I’m smiling here, just kidding. But seriously, need I say it again, must I say it again, I must say it again :grin: I never got over the fact they didn’t put the 8V engine in a Cali or even V7 retro style setup. Oh well, carry on.