Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: MariusD on June 05, 2015, 09:59:36 AM
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Hi everyone,
I'm a long time lurker just don't post much, mostly due to the fact that I don't own a guzzy (yet).
My buddy left me his 2010 fat boy to watch for a couple of months, so I started riding it and found it a very good all around bike, in terms of comfort, agility,etc. I'm 6 ft, and it really fit well. However, I am not an a big fan of the HD brand or the styling of the bike, so I started looking for something comperable from other makes, which brings me to the cali 1400. The closest dealership is about 200 miles away, so i'm doing as much homework as I can before i go test drive one. I was wondering if anyone has riden both bikes and can compare the two in terms of suspension, handling, and overall comfort. I already know both have prenty of power. Also, I read there were some heat issues on the legs/calfs with the cali14, so if you guys can shed some light on that issue, that would be great!
Basically, just looking for a solid, comfy, and fun commuter, and I'm really diggin' the looks of the cali14.
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Fat BOY not BOB? Meaning a Softail, not a Dyna right?
When you finally ride a Cali 1400 I think you're going to find it feels a good bit more nimble and every bit as comfortable (though I can't be certain as comfort is subjective).
It MIGHT feel a tad larger/heavier coming off the sidestand due to differences in how/where the weight is carried, but underway that will disappear immediately and it's probably splitting RCHs at this point.
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I owned a 2014 California 1400 for a year and 15000 miles. I owned a 2013 Road King Police for 10 months and 8000 miles. They are similar in many ways, but the Guzzi is a vastly superior bike. Harley has a great dealer network. Heat is not an issue with either bike. The Guzzi does run warm, but gets considerably cooler after about 5000 miles of breakin. Harley folks complain a bunch about heat on the big twins, but I never had any issue with that on my Road King. Ride in shorts? You do not want to be leaning your knees against either motor.
Handling, the Guzzi handles better, so good you in fact, will find the limits of ground clearance. The Harley doesn't handle as well, but is perfectly adequate, and like the Guzzi feels stable at 95+ MPH. The Guzzi has a vastly superior motor in terms of power and feel, and both had decently shifting transmissions with the advantage going to the Guzzi. Guzzi was about 100 pounds lighter...
The guzzi has the better electronic farkles, unless you go for the real high dollar Harley options.
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oops just re-read your post. I traded a FatBoy in on the Road King, so I have some experience there. The main difference is the fat boy has a much lower saddle height, but at your height you should be ok.
The floor boards on the Guzzi allow you to get more weight on your feet which can help the ride on occasions. The vibes on a fatboy are also higher due to lack of rubber mounts for the motor.
the weight of the fatboy is about the same at the cal 14. SInce you said commuting. I assume you are talking the custon version of the Cal 14, not the Touring.
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Fat BOY not BOB? Meaning a Softail, not a Dyna right?
When you finally ride a Cali 1400 I think you're going to find it feels a good bit more nimble and every bit as comfortable (though I can't be certain as comfort is subjective).
It MIGHT feel a tad larger/heavier coming off the sidestand due to differences in how/where the weight is carried, but underway that will disappear immediately and it's probably splitting RCHs at this point.
That is correct, sir. It's the softail, not the dyna. I rode a dyna too. Can't handle the vibrations. It's way too extreme at idle. The whole thing feels like it will fall appart at the red light. I just know I wouldn't enjoy it. The Fat boy has the balanced motor, so the vibes are there, but but much softer and are actually pleasant. I know the cali14 shakes at idle too, but I don't suppose it's as bad as a dyna.
I feel like it takes a special person to enjoy a dyna. But maybe I'm just a big spoiled wimp, since I have always ridden jap cruisers and a Victory.
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I have owned a California 1400 for almost two years now--I bought one of the first. And I am also a fan of the Harley Softail line, though my riding experience is with the Deluxe, not the Fat Boy. I think the two have different seating/handlebar geometries.
Random thoughts:
The Harley has a bigger engine, is narrower/lower (though you are 6' so not as big an issue), no traction control, no ride-by-wire mapping modes. New models have ABS standard. Being a Harley, you can customize it to death. Everyone has a Harley, so you're automatically part of that big family.
The California 1400 is smoother 'at speed', has Touring/Sport/Rain modes, traction control, and ABS. Low center of gravity so the low speed/parking lot handling is good. Accessories come from Italy and cost a fortune but are very well made. Nobody has a Guzzi, so you're automatically cool and unique.
Both weigh about the same--heavy. For commuting, both seem big to me. Both are cruel to my back--the upright 'cruiser' seating position turns my spine into a pogo stick when you hit a bump. Ironically, my lean-over-the-gas-tank Ducati is easier on the back.
And the Fat Boy costs about 20% more.
Of course, everyone else has their opinions too! I'm just one data point.
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That is correct, sir. It's the softail, not the dyna. I rode a dyna too. Can't handle the vibrations. It's way too extreme at idle. The whole thing feels like it will fall appart at the red light. I just know I wouldn't enjoy it. The Fat boy has the balanced motor, so the vibes are there, but but much softer and are actually pleasant. I know the cali14 shakes at idle too, but I don't suppose it's as bad as a dyna.
I feel like it takes a special person to enjoy a dyna. But maybe I'm just a big spoiled wimp, since I have always ridden jap cruisers and a Victory.
Never mind then - forget the Cali - it's rubbermounted just like a Dyna or FLH (or my Sporty).
Frankly, I've NEVER EVER understood people who object about the feel of a rubbermount at idle. Probably they didn't ride the real paint shaker solidmount Sportsters or non-balanced EVO Softails. If they had they'd NEVER bitch about the shaking at idle.
You'll never get the handling (or the brakes) of the Cali in something like the Softail, but you're going to have to deal with shaking at idle if you want to ride the Cali.
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A major part of the shakes idle is down to the spark control of the idle speed. I'm guessing that this,ncoupled with the lean closed loop targets are the main cause.
Hopefully that will be adressable soon.
Pete
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Hey, if you want smoothness at idle, get a Honda. Say, a Civic. :-)
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Thanks guys, this is a lot of really good input.
Seems you guys are saying that the cali14 shakes more than the softail, closer to the dyna? Is that right?
Hmmm....
Well, my experience with the dyna might have been a bit overblown for the reason that I rode the Switchback, which I later leanred is known to be a modern paint shaker even amongst the HD crowd. At idle, and when you just begin to accelerate this bike litterally rang, as if it had a dozen metal bells. I coudn't believe it. I don't mind a little character at idle, but this was just bad and to me felt all wrong... Anyway, maybe I need to take a different model dyna out for a test.
As for which model Cali14 I am after, I still don't really know. I sense I would like the plusher suspension better, and would be buing the bags anyway, so maybe the touring model is the better buy. But I definitely like the looks of the custom better, so if I get the custom, I can add the bags, change the handle bars, and set the suspension to the softer setting.
Is there a big difference in plushness of the suspension between the touring and custom?
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Hey, if you want smoothness at idle, get a Honda. Say, a Civic. :-)
lol! See.... this is where I really started to appreciate how Harley approached their bikes. Seems they designed the softail line exactly for poeple like me, who can appreciate character, but don't want to be overwhelmed by it. And as I started reading up on HD forums, there really are two clans within the Harley crowd: You have dyna fans who think softails are for girls, and your softail fans think the softail is the best bike HD ever made. Based on my experience with the Switchback, i would call myself a softail fan, but that SB might not have been a good example of a dyna from what i learned later.
I'm still hopeful the cali14 is not quiet as bad as that switchback.
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I've got news for you, if you think the Softail is a comfortable, nice handling motorcycle, the Cal 14 will show you another universe.
You'll either like the parallel universe, or you won't. And you'll either be blown away by the much better ride, handling, and overall experience of the California, or you'll realize that you're an HD rider and what the Cal 14 offers you above and beyond the Softail really doesn't matter in the type of riding you do...
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Hmmm....
Well, my experience with the dyna might have been a bit overblown for the reason that I rode the Switchback, which I later leanred is known to be a modern paint shaker even amongst the HD crowd. At idle, and when you just begin to accelerate this bike litterally rang, as if it had a dozen metal bells. I coudn't believe it. I don't mind a little character at idle, but this was just bad and to me felt all wrong... Anyway, maybe I need to take a different model dyna out for a test.
One of the biggest problems I find with Harleys are all the "experts", i.e. all the guys who have ridden one or two of them and think they know everything about them and/or want their friends to at least think that. There have to be more myths and BS surrounding Harleys than any other brand I've been involved with. So based on that alone I'd tell you to be careful what you HEAR about Harleys from the HD crowd (or any crowd, myself included) and just find out for yourself.
I've ridden a number of Dynas (from EVO to TC models), including the Switchback which I demo'd within a week or so of it's initial release because I was thinking maybe it would be a nice down-sized RK (I find it rather Ironic that dimensionally it's much closer to my original 96 RK than the current RK).
Now it looks like there was an early Tech Bulletin regarding the Switchback and vibration, so maybe something DID go on, but that was years ago.
Unless there was just something broken on the one you demo'd then I'm gonna say you just don't like it (which is fine).
Maybe you'll want to ride another, or ride the Cali, but frankly I think the idle vibration is similar, and NOT A BIG DEAL..but that's me, I've put a LOT of miles on rubbermounted Harleys so what might bug one person might not even be a blip on my radar.
As for which model Cali14 I am after, I still don't really know. I sense I would like the plusher suspension better, and would be buing the bags anyway, so maybe the touring model is the better buy. But I definitely like the looks of the custom better, so if I get the custom, I can add the bags, change the handle bars, and set the suspension to the softer setting.
Is there a big difference in plushness of the suspension between the touring and custom?
I can't really say about "plushness", but I'm under the impression the Custom already has the better shocks in this case.
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lol! See.... this is where I really started to appreciate how Harley approached their bikes. Seems they designed the softail line exactly for poeple like me, who can appreciate character, but don't want to be overwhelmed by it. And as I started reading up on HD forums, there really are two clans within the Harley crowd: You have dyna fans who think softails and for girls, and your softail fans think the softail is the best bike HD ever made. Based on my experience with the Switchback, i would call myself a softail fan, but that SB might not have been a good example of a dyna from what i learned later.
I'm still hopeful the cali14 is not quiet as bad as that switchback.
It's way worse than that.
Sportster riders hate BT riders.
BT riders call Sportsters girls bikes.
Sportster riders call Softails girls bikes.
Dynas are really just big Sportsters, but don't tell Dyna riders that.
Now Baggers are the thing and Dyna and Softail riders are starting to turn their noses up at Baggers....
:Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
Anyway, yeah, not all Dynas are the same, but then that can also be said about baggers.
I'm NOT trying to talk you out of a Cali... by all means, go ride one!
I'm just saying don't judge all Dynas or Softails or ___________ by one test ride either.
Good luck and have fun, I think there's a LOT to like about the Cali.
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They don't shake at idle like a non counter balanced HD
The ones I've seen and ridden did...
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At anything above idle, the 1400 engine is like buttah!
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Well maybe , but Pete is on to something with the spark control at idle speed problem . The 1400 can be smoothed out , the HD is what it is . The one I witnessed , Steve Walker's , was fairly calm at idle . Once again , not bashing the MoCo and its products , just making an observation based on what has been seen . On the Victor Vibro scale , the HD is a 6 at idle , the 1400 a 4 .
Dusty
Well, I still disagree with you, but it's not worth arguing about, I'm on the record for saying it's a stupid thing to worry about anyway on either bike cause as RTBick says, above idle it's butter anyway.
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My experience with the swithchback was that it had more of an annoying buzz, not really a shake, at idle and low rpm as you rolled into throttle . This buzz came back strong in the 3k-4k rpm range. So for this particular dyna it was not limited to idle. I left the test ride thinking, WTF?! How can poeple enjoy this?!
I really think that particular model has issues, because as i looked into it the interent is littered with complains about this specific model. Something to do with the 2-1 exhaust is mounting to the chassis. The other proof may be that there are plenty of very low mile switchbacks on the used market. For some not-so-odd reason poeple don't tend to ride them much.
I don't mind a fun shake/rumble at idle, but this bike had a buzz, very distictly different from a shake.
So I guess it remains to be seen if the cali has more fo a buzz or a shake, but it is becoming clear to me that only a test ride will tell me whether I can enjoy it. So far everything you all have said about it in all other respects as it related to the fat boy seems very favorable, so I am not at all detered. I really think this could be my next daily mule.
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So I guess it remains to be seen if the cali has more fo a buzz or a shake,
The Cali has a nice big shake at idle, like a V twin should. Then you get to a mere 1500 rpm and it smooths out like a turbine. You'll like it, I think.
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Thanks guys, this is a lot of really good input.
Seems you guys are saying that the cali14 shakes more than the softail, closer to the dyna? Is that right?
Hmmm....
Well, my experience with the dyna might have been a bit overblown for the reason that I rode the Switchback, which I later leanred is known to be a modern paint shaker even amongst the HD crowd. At idle, and when you just begin to accelerate this bike litterally rang, as if it had a dozen metal bells. I coudn't believe it. I don't mind a little character at idle, but this was just bad and to me felt all wrong... Anyway, maybe I need to take a different model dyna out for a test.
As for which model Cali14 I am after, I still don't really know. I sense I would like the plusher suspension better, and would be buing the bags anyway, so maybe the touring model is the better buy. But I definitely like the looks of the custom better, so if I get the custom, I can add the bags, change the handle bars, and set the suspension to the softer setting.
Is there a big difference in plushness of the suspension between the touring and custom?
I test rode a SB at Americade and couldn't wait to get off, the shaking got worse under acceleration, I'm assuming it was designed this way to attract more females to the little tourer, they love seat vibrations.
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Too much information, you really have to take a test ride to experience the differences. I chose the custom 14 over several harley's with my wife on back each time , I had read a lot of reviews on the guzzi, but still had no concept of how it actually felt on the road. Every bike is a compromise in some respects, but I have been very happy thus far with our choice. As mentioned the cali is a very big bike for a commuter, but I suspect you will be taking the long route to work if you purchase one. Best of luck with whatever you choose. One big advantage to the harley is resale value if you flip bikes a lot, where as the Guzzi is a niche brand and tougher to move. Personally I like to ride what I like to ride regardless.
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My commute is only 10 miles one way, 20mi total. It's typically a lot of stop and go slow moving traffic, so it helps to be comfortable when you have to stop a lot and start moving again. The fat boy makes this commute painless, so I'm hoping the cali14 would be similar in that respect.
Looks like I have to find time to take off work to make a trip to the closes dealership. Might be a while ... :(
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Really sounds like you need a big scooter . Vasco will be along shortly to explain why a 1400 CC MC is the wrong tool for this job.
Dusty
Lol! I've done this commute on everything from a crf230 to my current Victory Hammer 1600. I want to get down to one bike that I can use for everything, weekend tours and daily runs. I feel like cruisers do the best job for me overall. It's gonna come down to whether or not the cali14 feels bigger than the fat boy and my Hammer. Been riding for 8 years now, I feel like I know what I'm after at this stage;)
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If I may ask, what is it about the victory you are not satisfied with ?
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Hell , been riding for 47 years and still not sure what I want :laugh:
Dusty
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It's funny, the Guzzi is, for the market segment, relatively light and definitely nimble. BUT it's LONG and maybe not quite as low as some others. The end result is that it feels bigger then it is.
Vic's, like Indians, are pretty darn long. But the Vic's are still pretty narrow and feel smaller than they are to me.
I would probably have no problem commuting on it, but I can't imagine a crappy stop and go commute... Hopefully it's not all city blocks and is at least some winding surface streets and more than a few blocks between lights.
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I see Seamus is not on the job .
Dusty
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I see Seamus is not on the job .
Dusty
True dat lol.... He's taking a bath...
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True dat lol.... He's taking a bath...
There are members that are thinking WTH are these two talking about . HA !
Dusty
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If I may ask, what is it about the victory you are not satisfied with ?
Like Kev M said, Vics are pretty long, so to toss it around in city traffic is just not so easy. I found the fat boy much more "tossable" for whatever reason. I just seem to be able to throw it over into the next lane easier, at low speeds. Now, a lot of it might be due to the 250mm rear tire that is specifically a Victory Hammer feature. Overall though, that's really a minor complaint.
My bigger reason is I need storage, and I just cannot bring myself to put bags on this bike. It's such a great looking bike as it sits, it hurts to ruin it's look. I also want floorboards, and a rear luggage rack, which also look completely ridiculous on this bike. I've had it 4 years now and loved blasting around for up to say 200, max 300 miles a day. But again, can't bring a rain suit, or a backpack. So I want more function, is really why I will get rid of it. Not because i don't love it. It's a fantastic bike to blast around on and just have fun. Leaves that 96ci fat boy far far behind, even in the curves.
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It's funny, the Guzzi is, for the market segment, relatively light and definitely nimble. BUT it's LONG and maybe not quite as low as some others. The end result is that it feels bigger then it is.
Vic's, like Indians, are pretty darn long. But the Vic's are still pretty narrow and feel smaller than they are to me.
I would probably have no problem commuting on it, but I can't imagine a crappy stop and go commute... Hopefully it's not all city blocks and is at least some winding surface streets and more than a few blocks between lights.
The commute is really a good mix of everything, I'd say 7 miles of slow moving highway and 3 miles slow city traffic. This is why i need to sit comfortably.
Which actually brings me to another important question: how is low speed fueling on the cali14? That's a big deal in my situation.I realized that the reason the fat boy works so darn well, is not just that it has great ergos, with floorboards, a low wide seat, and wide tires that make it super stable, but also because the counter weights on the engine make for very smooth low speed acceleration. Doesn't jerk or buck, just moves smoothly at whatever pace is required. Really, riding the fatboy is just pure bliss at anything under say 70mph. The only cruiser that I've ridden that was smoother was the Vulcan 1700. That's a real road couch right there. It's my alternative choice if the guzzi doesn't work out. The problem with the Vulcan is it feels BIG and also the suspension is so plush that the engine doesn't feel fast at all. You just can't feel the acceleration, so the fun factor is not quiet there. Still, my goal is getting around comfortably, and so I think the VN1700 would be good for that. I'm hoping the cali1400 is a good blend of all that I'm looking for.
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That's a BUNCH of cabbage just to get your arse back and forth to work. (suspender <ker-snap!>
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That's a BUNCH of cabbage just to get your arse back and forth to work. (suspender <ker-snap!>
Well, this would be the bike I use for everything. The commute is just part of it. Since I do that daily, it needs to work well. But I also do long weekend rides very often, and now plan to start doing multi day trips. The bike needs to work well for that too.
I dang near bought a Kawasaki Voyager... :-P Now that bike would have been way too much for what I do.
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First the Hammer is about the same weight (maybe a little lighter) and almost the identical wheelbase, yet a few inches shorter than the Cali. So right there, even if it breaks over for a turn a little quicker, I'm not seeing any night and day differences and I don't expect you'll feel them either.
And as for the aesthetic objection about putting bags on a Hammer? I dunno man, your comments aren't going to fall on a lot of sympathetic ears here. Well, hey, I even like Vics in general (at least from a ride and mechanical standpoint) and arguably I'm way more "cruiser" friendly than your average MG owner, but there is nothing about the looks of a Hammer that says to me it can't wear bags.
Get a different bike because you're tired of it, or you just WANT something different, but Puh-leaze, the Vics aren't that good looking to begin with that it couldn't wear and shield and bags if you wanted.
I dunno, you're heaping enough praise on the Fat Boy that it makes me wonder why you're looking elsewhere.
The low speed fueling, I can't comment on because I've owned a half dozen bikes where people bitch about the low speed fueling and I've been like "WHAT? :shocked: Basically I think people make mountains out of molehills on that...
...but that said, Harley seems to have their fueling pretty damn well sorted, especially compared to some of the complaints around here.
I dunno... like I keep saying, you're going to have to ride to decide, but I'm thinking you've already made up your mind so a ride might be useless cause it's likely only going to confirm what you want it to...
... Then again, big deal, you'll just be "stuck" with a nice bike if that happens.
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There are members that are thinking WTH are these two talking about . HA !
Dusty
that is what I am thinking about this whole thread! WTF
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For what it is worth, my first bike was an 82 Sportster. I never even noticed the vibrations.
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Kev:
Looks are always a subjective thing, so that part isn't worth arguing over. I personally think Vics are some of the best looking bikes out there currently, but Guzzis are right there with them.
Function, on the other hand, is a lot less subjective.
For my commute, I need to pack a laptop, rain gear, lunch and a gym bag. For weekend touring it would be more stuff. The bags I can get for the Hammer can't fit the laptop....
I've seen many guys spend tons of dollars and hours turning muscle cruisers into tourers only to realize that the bike still is what it is, with it's sport tires, firm suspension, general ergonomics that are beyond simple mods to change, no cruise control, and still very limited luggage capacity. To do the complete transformation on the hammer not only would cost good money, but in the end, still wouldn't result in the comfort and function that comes with a purpose built bike. I've seen it fail too many times to go down that path. I don't consider it a smart move.
I firmly believe there's the right tool for the right job, and while I was blasting around the back roads in my late 20s on the Hammer, life was great, but now my riding style has changed and the Hammer is no longer the right tool for the job. And I don't think it wise to spend the time and effort turning it into something that it is not. It's really that simple.
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I hate to say it but it sounds like you might be better off with one of the smaller harley's for all the reasons mentioned. You wont appreciate the cali for a short commuter, it's just to big and heavy, but on the open road it's hard to beat, it is a true cruiser. No 700 lb. bike is going to be nimble at slow speeds and stop and go riding. I think you have stumbled upon the reason why so many of us here maintain more than one bike. I think you may seriously want to consider that option. Just a thought. Dave
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Marius,
I hope you don't think I'm just giving you guff, but bikes with bags and shields (especially this style of bike) has been my mainstay for a few decades. Sportsters and FLHs, Oilheads and Airheads, Guzzi big blocks and small blocks. I've repeatedly dabbled in other styles (sport, standard, sport tourer), but I've always come back to the "cruiser, classic, tourer".
If you really wanted to bag up the Hammer I'm sure you could come up with something that would carry the laptop.
But even so, if you like Vic's so much, what's wrong with their baggers?
I've ridden a few in the past few years and loved them mechanically, but I'm not sold on the aesthetics.
And please don't take this the wrong way, but calling the Hammer a power cruiser and using terms like "sport" for the tires or suspension are doing to draw some sarcasm from this crowd.
I DO get what you're looking for (I think) and I'm probably more open to the more subtle differences between a Vic and Harley that would glaze over the eyes of the average Guzzi rider.
Again, maybe the Cali will be what you want. But I just don't see it being different enough for the terms you use, unless you're talking about just the fact that you can buy one with bags on it already.
I'm not trying to talk you out of one, as I think they're great bikes. I'm just suspecting that you're convincing yourself of differences that aren't there or justifying it with some spurious arguments.
Of course, if I'm reading it wrong, and I may be, it's just weird on a phone, mea-culpa.
Either way, have fun and enjoy the search.
Do please let us know what you think of the Cali when you get to ride it.
But if size is really a thing, I'd at least consider the Dyna Fat Bob, with some LeatherLyke bags or maybe HB C-Bows and some OEM mid mounts. It'll be a bit smaller, a bit lighter, and have way more aftermarket support.
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Whatever machine you buy, and if you like Cruisers I'd say at least go ride a Cali It's an impressive bike, BUT, and Dusty is right, I'm going to run out my 'Lecture', riding a big bike of any sort for your commute is a rotten idea. In cold weather it will barely have time to warm up and in hot weather it will be prone to overheating issues, especially in stop/go traffic. It's also murder on a motor to sit for long periods of time and never clear its throat.
By all means buy a big bike for fun and trips but for your commute you could get a 250cc scooter with enormous under-seat storage, enough performance to out drag most things from the lights, better weather protection, cheaper servicing and much greater economy. And you know the best thing? It'll pay for itself in a couple of years. How so? In the reduced running costs, low insurance and lack of wear and tear on your 'Bigger' toy.
There are hosts of really great scooters out there, or, if you really have a bias against scooters? Buy a couple of years old 125/250 motorbike for the commute for exactly the same reasons as the Scoots but with a scoot you get an auto transmission which is a great boon in traffic. Believe me, my *Other* bike is an Aprilia Mana. Best commuting weapon ever!
Pete
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Back on the topic of vibrations at idle, I thought MG deliberately designed those in on the Cali 1400 to give it character and that they disappear as soon as the bike is rolling. So, they're not a problem but there for your enjoyment. Personally, I like some vibration as it helps in communicating with the bike, especially if I'm wearing ear plugs and so can't hear the engine above the wind noise.
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I got dizzy mid way through the responses so I'll jump straight to the end with my recent observations.
My wife had me dispose of a Fat Boy from one of her estate sales just last month. Couple things really stood out to me and may not apply to other folks's but stand out they did:
I couldn't begin to corner anyway near a Guzzi. Even red light, moderate right turns caused fricto-carnage from floor boards, pipes, whatever.
Looked like a real headache to get that rear tire off and it was what I feel will one day be a passe' dimension though I guess that's not really new to some Guzzi riders.
Incredibly comfortable going straight or leaning in turns - just watch the speed.
Outstanding fuel injection performance. Nary a glitch nor hiccup... cold, warm or hot. Lugged or revved.
While I didn't get to experience it on this particular bike, I have in the past noted that solid wheels - front in particular - are a pain in cross country cross-winds, even quartering ones.
Noting that it may not be standard, the system of bypassing the alarm in the case of a dead key fob battery (keyless starting) was a gigantic pain in the ass for the owner. I know one never endeavors to simplify theft but not giving enough time to press punch through the code before the alarm goes off SUCKS!
Todd.
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>>I'd say 7 miles of slow moving highway and 3 miles slow city traffic...how is low speed fueling on the cali14?<<
The 1400 idles along in first at about 10mph.
If your 'slow highway and city traffic' is slower than that,
you will be doing plenty of clutch work.
Stephen
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Well, thanks everyone! You all have certainly given me things to consider. I found a dealership that allows test rides about 3 hours away, so I will try to get there this coming saturday. Then I will know for sure. :thumb:
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Awesome!!! Let us know what you think! :thumb:
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Whatever machine you buy, and if you like Cruisers I'd say at least go ride a Cali It's an impressive bike, BUT, and Dusty is right, I'm going to run out my 'Lecture', riding a big bike of any sort for your commute is a rotten idea. In cold weather it will barely have time to warm up and in hot weather it will be prone to overheating issues, especially in stop/go traffic. It's also murder on a motor to sit for long periods of time and never clear its throat.
By all means buy a big bike for fun and trips but for your commute you could get a 250cc scooter with enormous under-seat storage, enough performance to out drag most things from the lights, better weather protection, cheaper servicing and much greater economy. And you know the best thing? It'll pay for itself in a couple of years. How so? In the reduced running costs, low insurance and lack of wear and tear on your 'Bigger' toy.
There are hosts of really great scooters out there, or, if you really have a bias against scooters? Buy a couple of years old 125/250 motorbike for the commute for exactly the same reasons as the Scoots but with a scoot you get an auto transmission which is a great boon in traffic. Believe me, my *Other* bike is an Aprilia Mana. Best commuting weapon ever!
Pete
I was going to recommend the Mana 850. Get one used and keep the Hammer. Used mana's up here in Seattle area go around $4 or $5K, I don't think there's much demand for them.
If I remember right they take a full size helmet in the fake gas tank. I haven't ridden one, but wouldn't mind trying it out.
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You'll get a good view of the FB from rear view mirrors of the Cal 14 before it disappears.
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Well, my experience with the dyna might have been a bit overblown for the reason that I rode the Switchback, which I later leanred is known to be a modern paint shaker even amongst the HD crowd. At idle, and when you just begin to accelerate this bike litterally rang, as if it had a dozen metal bells. I coudn't believe it. I don't mind a little character at idle, but this was just bad and to me felt all wrong... Anyway, maybe I need to take a different model dyna out for a test.
Wondering what year Switchback you test rode.
I traded my 2004 RoadKing in on a 2014 Switchback last month because I wanted something lighter with ABS since most of my riding is now local. At idle, I can't tell any difference between the Switchback and the RoadKing - both have a nice vibe IMHO and I don't hear any ringing when I accelerate the Switchback. However, there's a noticable "shaking" between 2800 - 3200rpm at any gear on this bike. Searching the internet resulted in finding others who are experiencing the same issue - especially at 80mph in 6th gear. At 75mph in 6th gear, my SB is around 2750rpm and feels very smooth. I tend to ride at 75mph on the open highway so it's not been a concern to me. But out of curiosity, I'm going to try the fix that involves spending $5 for a clevis pin, washers, and a hairpin clip from Lowes (known as the Clevis Pin Mod) to address the vibration problem - which seems to be created by the mid-mount on the stock exhaust. Those who have applied this fix and commented say the vibration is virtually gone.
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make it simple , you said you rode a fat boy and a dyna , so now it is time to go test ride a cali 1400.
We can stay here all day explaining pro /cons but without a test ride..... do not mean anything.
Your money , your choice , go to see a cali in person not on the internet or u tube and test ride it... it will help to make the final decision.
let us know how it goes,
ciao
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Well, this would be the bike I use for everything. The commute is just part of it. Since I do that daily, it needs to work well. But I also do long weekend rides very often, and now plan to start doing multi day trips. The bike needs to work well for that too.
I dang near bought a Kawasaki Voyager... :-P Now that bike would have been way too much for what I do.
I'm glad you didn't buy the Voyager. I bought one a few years ago and kept it only 6 months. After severe 'monkey butt' and no highway acceleration which almost left me hit a few times, enough was enough. Plus the finish on that bike is very poor. Comparing it to anything Moto Guzzi makes from a finish perspective is night and day. I don't have a Cali. 1400 but I do have a Norge GT, have owned a Breva and have ridden the Cali. 1400 and can tell you that Guzzi makes bikes that are tons of fun. They take care when building them and you will enjoy riding them. That's what makes the difference for me. While your commute isn't long, I don't think the Cali. 1400 is ill suited for it. In fact, if I could recoup a fair amount of what I have in my '14 R1200RT, I would sell it and get a Cali. 1400 Touring tomorrow. I'm just sayin.....
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At anything above idle, the 1400 engine is like buttah!
:1:
Been riding my Custom for 18 months & 10,000 miles. Anything above idle is smooth.
Great bike on the road.
Around town?
- Idle shake is tiresome in heavy stop and go
- Relatively easy to launch and ride in slow traffic (I'd say no worse than most big block Guzzis)
- Some complain about the heat but it never bothered me
- Fuel mileage in stop and go is abysmal (think F150 Ford - well, maybe not quite that bad, but still lousy)
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Wondering what year Switchback you test rode.
I traded my 2004 RoadKing in on a 2014 Switchback last month because I wanted something lighter with ABS since most of my riding is now local. At idle, I can't tell any difference between the Switchback and the RoadKing - both have a nice vibe IMHO and I don't hear any ringing when I accelerate the Switchback. However, there's a noticable "shaking" between 2800 - 3200rpm at any gear on this bike. Searching the internet resulted in finding others who are experiencing the same issue - especially at 80mph in 6th gear. At 75mph in 6th gear, my SB is around 2750rpm and feels very smooth. I tend to ride at 75mph on the open highway so it's not been a concern to me. But out of curiosity, I'm going to try the fix that involves spending $5 for a clevis pin, washers, and a hairpin clip from Lowes (known as the Clevis Pin Mod) to address the vibration problem - which seems to be created by the mid-mount on the stock exhaust. Those who have applied this fix and commented say the vibration is virtually gone.
I rode a bone stock 2013 with 1200 miles on it. I have read about the clevis pin solution as well, but it seems people have had mixed results. If it wasn't for the crazy shaking, I would own this bike. I really thought it was a great blend of comfort / size / wieght /performance. Hoping this cali14 will do it for me. :grin:
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make it simple , you said you rode a fat boy and a dyna , so now it is time to go test ride a cali 1400.
We can stay here all day explaining pro /cons but without a test ride..... do not mean anything.
Your money , your choice , go to see a cali in person not on the internet or u tube and test ride it... it will help to make the final decision.
let us know how it goes,
ciao
yes, sir! That's the plan at this point. Next weekends mission, if life cooperates, is to get some seat time on one of these beauties.
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I'm glad you didn't buy the Voyager. I bought one a few years ago and kept it only 6 months. After severe 'monkey butt' and no highway acceleration which almost left me hit a few times, enough was enough. Plus the finish on that bike is very poor. Comparing it to anything Moto Guzzi makes from a finish perspective is night and day. I don't have a Cali. 1400 but I do have a Norge GT, have owned a Breva and have ridden the Cali. 1400 and can tell you that Guzzi makes bikes that are tons of fun. They take care when building them and you will enjoy riding them. That's what makes the difference for me. While your commute isn't long, I don't think the Cali. 1400 is ill suited for it. In fact, if I could recoup a fair amount of what I have in my '14 R1200RT, I would sell it and get a Cali. 1400 Touring tomorrow. I'm just sayin.....
Sorry to hear your experience with the voyager was so bad. I can totally understand what you mean about the power. It seemed barely enough for the Vulcan 1700 that I rode, so it makes sense that it would barely get out of it's way with an extra 150lb on the voyager.
That '14 r12rt has to be a super nice bike. Curious why you'd trade it for a cali14. It's price tag and maintenance cost is the only reason I don't own one.
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:1:
Been riding my Custom for 18 months & 10,000 miles. Anything above idle is smooth.
Great bike on the road.
Around town?
- Idle shake is tiresome in heavy stop and go
- Relatively easy to launch and ride in slow traffic (I'd say no worse than most big block Guzzis)
- Some complain about the heat but it never bothered me
- Fuel mileage in stop and go is abysmal (think F150 Ford - well, maybe not quite that bad, but still lousy)
Thanks, that's actually very helpfull. I will pay attention to those things when I test ride.
MPG doesn't bother me. I tend to think poeple give it way too much weight, especially for the miles most riders actually cover. But of course, it's all personal preference.
If I may ask, how is the suspension of the Custom over bad roads? Is it pretty stiff or does it soak up the pavement fairly well? Roads are so bad around here that I'm always bouncing on the bike, so a good suspension that soaks it up well is worth a lot to me.
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If I may ask, how is the suspension of the Custom over bad roads? Is it pretty stiff or does it soak up the pavement fairly well? Roads are so bad around here that I'm always bouncing on the bike, so a good suspension that soaks it up well is worth a lot to me.
Here in Illinois we too have terrible roads, lots of frost heaves after two very cold winters. The forks are not adjustable on the California 1400 Custom, but I have been adjusting the damping on the rear shocks. I confess that I have not found a perfect setting yet--I am short and light, so stiff springs bounce me around pretty good--but I'm certain there's a sweet spot to be found. The factory settings are fairly harsh.
Your mileage--and ability to adjust the Custom's shocks--may vary. I'm sure others have secrets to share.
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Thanks, that's actually very helpfull. I will pay attention to those things when I test ride.
MPG doesn't bother me. I tend to think poeple give it way too much weight, especially for the miles most riders actually cover. But of course, it's all personal preference.
If I may ask, how is the suspension of the Custom over bad roads? Is it pretty stiff or does it soak up the pavement fairly well? Roads are so bad around here that I'm always bouncing on the bike, so a good suspension that soaks it up well is worth a lot to me.
To make sure I'm clear on the mileage - country riding up to 70mph you'll get above 40 mpg, above 70mph it starts to drop off. Above 85mph, start looking for gas stations. Around town I can average high 20s. In solid stop and go - I've seen it drop to 20 mpg.
I have no complaints about the suspension. You can always improve suspensions, but I've never had an issue. For reference I do almost all of my riding solo, and probably weigh 215 with all my gear. I have done some two-up, and have loaded it up for a week long trip (again solo), but still no issues.
Now, I haven't ridden Every Harley but I seriously doubt that there is a NEW stock Harley out there that has a dramatically better ride than a Cali 1400. And I'll bet there isn't a stock Harley that handles the curves as well (I think that's a safe bet because none of them have the ground clearance. ;)
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Sorry to hear your experience with the voyager was so bad. I can totally understand what you mean about the power. It seemed barely enough for the Vulcan 1700 that I rode, so it makes sense that it would barely get out of it's way with an extra 150lb on the voyager.
That '14 r12rt has to be a super nice bike. Curious why you'd trade it for a cali14. It's price tag and maintenance cost is the only reason I don't own one.
My R1200RT is a fine bike. In fact, the more I ride it the more I like it. The problem is that I don't love it. It's not as comfortable as my Norge and the engine sounds a little like a tractor. It's quite powerful and quick off the line and handles beautifully. I find myself about 10-12 mph faster in corners on the RT than on my Norge. The Norge however, feels like a motorcycle should, has a great exhaust note and is just plain fun to ride. It's definitely a keeper. The only change I've made to mine is changing the stock windshield for a CalSci medium shield. I will add a cruise control sometime this year (when I get around to it) and a GPS and satellite radio. That'll be it and I plan to ride it for a long time.
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Here in Illinois we too have terrible roads, lots of frost heaves after two very cold winters. The forks are not adjustable on the California 1400 Custom, but I have been adjusting the damping on the rear shocks. I confess that I have not found a perfect setting yet--I am short and light, so stiff springs bounce me around pretty good--but I'm certain there's a sweet spot to be found. The factory settings are fairly harsh.
Your mileage--and ability to adjust the Custom's shocks--may vary. I'm sure others have secrets to share.
Ok this is very good to know. The Cali14 only needs to be a little better than the Hammer and only as good as the Fat Boy in terms of suspension plushness, so my bar is not unreasonably hight. From personal experience I know having the seat modified with a little more padding can help to take off the edge siginificantly. The seat mod is probably something I'll be doing anyway.
Then there is also the aftermarket suspension parts.
My loaded weight is close to that of MJPTEXAS, so hopefully I can dial it in with minor adjustments, and enjoy it like he does.
It's surprising that the cali14 get's into the low 20s int he city. My hammer gets a worse of high 20s and that's running it like I stole it for the whole tank. But again, I am not going to pretend like that actualy matters, because in the end the real life diffence of dollars spent on gas is negligible.
esmurrell:
The way you describe your guzzi vs the bmw is like a Harley owner would describe his experience on a jap bike! lol! :-P
I understand where you are coming from, certain engines you just don't do it for you. I had a similar experience with the Yamaha Super tenere. The engine just felt "all wrong" to me. Otherwise, I really liked the bike.
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Actually, now that I think I better understand what you're looking for... unless the shaking at idle bothers you, I THINK you're going to really like the Cali.
I mean, if FatBoy and Hammer "plushness" is your bar, it's set pretty mid-range...
and if handling and performance is a similar bar, it's pretty low, and should be easy for a Cali to exceed it.
I can't wait to hear your report.
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Actually, now that I think I better understand what you're looking for... unless the shaking at idle bothers you, I THINK you're going to really like the Cali.
I mean, if FatBoy and Hammer "plushness" is your bar, it's set pretty mid-range...
and if handling and performance is a similar bar, it's pretty low, and should be easy for a Cali to exceed it.
I can't wait to hear your report.
Yeah, you and I both! lol! I'll be sure to report back.
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I got a chance to run a silver Custom on Saturday. I was told they had a demo bike, but apparently it had been sold already when I got there, so I was very fortunate that they still let me ride a new one that had only 10 miles on it. I added another 10 to that odo, with the understanding that I had to be kind to the bike. I only took it up to 4000 rpm. It being only 10 miles, I barely got my feet wet, but it was enough to get a decent feel for the bike. Overall, I was very, very impressed with the package.
Pros:
- Hanging is fantastic, on the road and in the parking lot. That can�t be said for too many cruisers of this weight.
-Throttle and clutch seems easy and smooth for slow maneuvers. Seemed easy to ride.
-Character, loved it! The vibes you get at idle are soft and gentle, so it�s really enjoyable actually, unlike HD dynas that literally seem to rattle! Twist the throttle, the engine torqued the bike side to side, even when the bike is at a good speed on the interstate, I personally found that very entertaining, lol!
-The guzzi sound is something special even with stock exhaust, but I also got to hear a V7 racer with Mistrals, and that is just plain incredible. I don�t like raspy HD sound, and this was nothing like it. It sounded deep and throaty. I�d be getting those pipes without a doubt.
-Suspension I thought was superb! It was much smoother over bad roads than I expected. Totally touring ready imo, the issue is the seat. There is minimal padding and the seat is narrow/, tight even on the back end, so when you hear people complain about this stiffness of this bike, it�s really not the suspension, I really think it�s the seat�s fault.
Cons: (really only 2)
- Factory ergonomics on the custom are definitely not long range friendly. This specific model isn�t intended to be, so I get that, but I personally felt pretty cramped on this otherwise large bike. I�m 6ft and I�m use to stretching out on my Hammer.
- Others have mentioned the heat off the engine, and now I know what they mean. When I ride, I like to have my legs hugging the tank, which leans the side of your calves against those hot metal covers right behind the cylinder heads. I wore my tall riding boots, so they shielded my calves from the hot covers, but I still felt a good bit of it, and it just felt uncomfortable. That said, this heat didn�t feel much different from what other bikes put out on some different part of your legs, depending on what bike. The Fat boy burns the underside of your thigh for example, and on the hammer, it�s the inside on your thy that gets pretty warm.
In terms of power, I don�t want to comment much, as I didn�t really run the bike through the entire rpm range. It seemed to have plenty of power up to 4000rpm, though it�s no stump pulling Victory Hammer or Yamaha Raider� but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
My personal verdict is this:
I really loved this platform! I think Guzzi outdid themselves in terms of the engine, suspension combo. I found it to be very smooth and to work very well in all types of riding (cruising or corner carving). I would love to own a bike built on this chassis, thought at this point I will wait for the Eldorado to show up at dealers. I really think the Eldo will be closer to what I�m after. I favor the seat design (wider, more lumbar support), handlebars, and tire sizes better on the Eldorado, over the custom, and the looks have really grown on me. Once I get to ride the Eldo, I will make my decision then, but either way, I think one of these will join my fleet.
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Thanks for sharing the review. Re: the seat. I got the "leather touring seat" (cha ching) for my Custom, and it helps somewhat. Mostly it's of benefit to your passenger, but it's a little softer and cushier for the rider as well. But that's an option for you.
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Thanks for sharing the review. Re: the seat. I got the "leather touring seat" (cha ching) for my Custom, and it helps somewhat. Mostly it's of benefit to your passenger, but it's a little softer and cushier for the rider as well. But that's an option for you.
I too was thinking that the seats are probably going to be interchangeble between the models. Maybe even the Eldorado seat will fit the Custom. But really, there are plenty of custom seat builders that will make whatever changes you like for a very reasonable price, so I wouldn't be oppsed to just fixing the stocker. I really feel like the custom is pretty much a seat adjustment and handlebar change away from being where i'd like it to be.
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Do you know which map it was set on, veloce, tourismo or piaggio? And I would imagine they had the traction control at level 3 which will cut the power without you even knowing it.
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Do you know which map it was set on, veloce, tourismo or piaggio? And I would imagine they had the traction control at level 3 which will cut the power without you even knowing it.
I asked them to set it to Veloce. Didn't think about the traction control aspect though. Bike seemed to have plenty sufficient power for what I'd be doing with it, so it's not something that concerns me in the least.
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Keep in mind the Custom, Touring, and presumably Eldo reach have different shocks, and I've heard report the Custom is more comfortable than the Touring for that reason. Though obviously that can be changed so it's a small matter.
I still disagree with your generalization of all Dynas, but it's no matter.
I also think you're probably fooling yourself if you think you can discern a side-to-side shimmy on the Cali from throttle input on the interstate.
But sounds like must importantly you enjoyed it.
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Keep in mind the Custom, Touring, and presumably Eldo reach have different shocks, and I've heard report the Custom is more comfortable than the Touring for that reason. Though obviously that can be changed so it's a small matter.
I still disagree with your generalization of all Dynas, but it's no matter.
I also think you're probably fooling yourself if you think you can discern a side-to-side shimmy on the Cali from throttle input on the interstate.
But sounds like must importantly you enjoyed it.
Yep, I told the salesman I would want to know as soon as they got an ELDO. It will be easy to make a decision with a quick ride. I feel like the ELDO will give me all of what I like about the fat boy. We shall see.
The Dyna thing, well, maybe I just test rode the two shakiest dynas on the planet. Don't know. Doesn't really matter really.
Now, on the side to side while moving, I should probably clarify. What I felt was more like a single buck or twist that slightly rocked the bike as I gave the throttle a good twist coming out of a turn on a backroad. That was just plain fun. It was like a horse that stomps right before it takes of. I found it unexpected, but very cool! That's character that no other bike has, and may only be obvisous to "new to guzzi" riders that aren't accustomed to it.
This was my first Guzzi ride and a very cool experience! :thumb:
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I only took it up to 4000 rpm. It being only 10 miles, I barely got my feet wet, but it was enough to get a decent feel for the bike. Overall, I was very, very impressed with the package.
In terms of power, I don�t want to comment much, as I didn�t really run the bike through the entire rpm range. It seemed to have plenty of power up to 4000rpm, though it�s no stump pulling Victory Hammer or Yamaha Raider� but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Once you ride a Cal 14 without that 4k restriction, you will be amazed. The bike pulls hard way past when other cruisers hit the rev limiter. 5k to 7k, the Cal 14 is STRONG!
I too was thinking that the seats are probably going to be interchangeble between the models. Maybe even the Eldorado seat will fit the Custom.
That would be great. A good engineer/designer would place the hardware in the same place on the Eldo as it is on the Custom and touring. It would be the smart thing to do, but I'll bet it isn't the way Galluzzi thinks. But I will hope, since Corbin already makes a nice seat for the touring/custom.
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My first guzzi was the Griso, and yeah it twisted when I goosed it. The 1400 is the same engine only bigger, it does twist when goosed I bet! Nice report, now go jump on the Eldorado and report back, LOL.
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I noticed it when I first got my Sport 1100 in 1997. Don't really think about it anymore...
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Twisted when goosed AT SPEED, riding down the interstate?
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I first rode it when I tossed it out of the truck on the way home from St. Louis, in Mountain View. I ran down highway 9, bunch of easy twisties and hills. Yep, I noticed it, and it was GREAT! LOL
But, yeah, you get used to it and don't notice it until you get on a normal bike.
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Yeah, transitioning from left to right was noticeably quicker than from right to left when I first got the bike.
Like you, most of my riding is here in the twisties of The Ozarks.
But, I quit noticing it years ago.
"Number Nine" is a good road. Especially between Mountain View and Clinton! https://goo.gl/maps/dPkpA
I'll try to notice it this week in Colorado and report back... :bike-037:
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Our last romp up that way, I escorted 2 K1600s, one GT one GTL. The GT was experienced rider and 2up, the GTL was solo and wanted to keep up. LOL.
I took them up 123, but we had already done twisties from Arkadelphia, 69?, 5, 298, then left on 9, to pickup 5 again to 7 to Darnelle, finally 27 I believe. We didn't finish 123, as it was sorta out of the way to Mountain View (our destination for the night), but they were pretty tired by then. The big KTM loves that stuff.
The GTL owner is picking up a new S1000XR tomorrow. But that is a whole nother story.
P.S. I had to bring up the map, couldn't remember that route, correctly.
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"Number Nine" is a good road. Especially between Mountain View and Clinton! https://goo.gl/maps/dPkpA
I'll try to notice it this week in Colorado and report back... :bike-037:
9 down from Salem to Mountain View is really technical at the end, I like to watch the bikes in my mirror to see how much they are struggling or scraping parts to regulate my speed. You just cannot get in a hurry in that section, no room for a mess up.
I'm playing golf tourneys so will miss the Colorado ride again, keep us posted on your ride.
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Excellent.
When I have my four car garage next spring--the new big blocks will get a serious test. If I don't have to wrestle with the infamous garage bump, a bigger bike could happen, but it has to have touring capability.
Ride on!
Mistrals really that good on V7R?
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9 down from Salem to Mountain View is really technical at the end, I like to watch the bikes in my mirror to see how much they are struggling or scraping parts to regulate my speed. You just cannot get in a hurry in that section, no room for a mess up.
I'm playing golf tourneys so will miss the Colorado ride again, keep us posted on your ride.
For some reason, I can't remember riding the section between Mountain View and Melbourne. I know the other sections, though.
I used to ride the section between Clinton and Mountain View pretty regularly, and I'm on the section between Crows and Morriltion often.
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Yep, I noticed it, and it was GREAT! LOL
My experience was the same. I twisted the throttle, the bike kicked to the left and took off. Initially, my brain was confused about what just happened, but you quickly understand that it's just the mounting of the engine that gives it that fun characteristic. Then you start hitting the throttle just to feel it again, lol! It's a hoot!
I'll post an update when I get to ride the Eldo.Pretty excited about it. Hopefully the dealer gets one soon!
BTW: The Ozarks are on my bucket list, so it's great to see there are poeple here who know the area. I will have to pick your brains when the trip starts to materialize. Seems like a really nice area to explore based on the pictures I'd seen.
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Twisted when goosed AT SPEED, riding down the interstate?
I'm with Kev. I don't believe I have ever noticed any "side push" at speed. Sure sitting in my driveway raving the motor I can feel the bike want to roll slightly to the right, but once moving I never have sensed anything like it. Maybe some of you guys are more sensitive than me. < shrug>
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I think Queen Wilhelmina is open again also. Actually, they are scheduled to open July 1st.