Fat Boy vs Cali 1400?!

[MariusD]

Hi everyone,

I'm a long time lurker just don't post much, mostly due to the fact that I don't own a guzzy (yet).

My buddy left me his 2010 fat boy to watch for a couple of months, so I started riding it and found it a very good all around bike, in terms of comfort, agility,etc. I'm 6 ft, and it really fit well. However, I am not an a big fan of the HD brand or the styling of the bike, so I started looking for something comperable from other makes, which brings me to the cali 1400. The closest dealership is about 200 miles away, so i'm doing as much homework as I can before i go test drive one. I was wondering if anyone has riden both bikes and can compare the two in terms of suspension, handling, and overall comfort. I already know both have prenty of power. Also, I read there were some heat issues on the legs/calfs with the cali14, so if you guys can shed some light on that issue, that would be great!

Basically, just looking for a solid, comfy, and fun commuter, and I'm really diggin' the looks of the cali14.

[Kev m]

Fat BOY not BOB? Meaning a Softail, not a Dyna right?

When you finally ride a Cali 1400 I think you're going to find it feels a good bit more nimble and every bit as comfortable (though I can't be certain as comfort is subjective).

It MIGHT feel a tad larger/heavier coming off the sidestand due to differences in how/where the weight is carried, but underway that will disappear immediately and it's probably splitting RCHs at this point.

[mtiberio]

I owned a 2014 California 1400 for a year and 15000 miles. I owned a 2013 Road King Police for 10 months and 8000 miles. They are similar in many ways, but the Guzzi is a vastly superior bike. Harley has a great dealer network. Heat is not an issue with either bike. The Guzzi does run warm, but gets considerably cooler after about 5000 miles of breakin. Harley folks complain a bunch about heat on the big twins, but I never had any issue with that on my Road King. Ride in shorts? You do not want to be leaning your knees against either motor.

Handling, the Guzzi handles better, so good you in fact, will find the limits of ground clearance. The Harley doesn't handle as well, but is perfectly adequate, and like the Guzzi feels stable at 95+ MPH. The Guzzi has a vastly superior motor in terms of power and feel, and both had decently shifting transmissions with the advantage going to the Guzzi. Guzzi was about 100 pounds lighter...

The guzzi has the better electronic farkles, unless you go for the real high dollar Harley options.

[mtiberio]

oops just re-read your post. I traded a FatBoy in on the Road King, so I have some experience there. The main difference is the fat boy has a much lower saddle height, but at your height you should be ok.

The floor boards on the Guzzi allow you to get more weight on your feet which can help the ride on occasions. The vibes on a fatboy are also higher due to lack of rubber mounts for the motor.

the weight of the fatboy is about the same at the cal 14. SInce you said commuting. I assume you are talking the custon version of the Cal 14, not the Touring.

[MariusD]

Fat BOY not BOB? Meaning a Softail, not a Dyna right?

When you finally ride a Cali 1400 I think you're going to find it feels a good bit more nimble and every bit as comfortable (though I can't be certain as comfort is subjective).

It MIGHT feel a tad larger/heavier coming off the sidestand due to differences in how/where the weight is carried, but underway that will disappear immediately and it's probably splitting RCHs at this point.

That is correct, sir. It's the softail, not the dyna. I rode a dyna too. Can't handle the vibrations. It's way too extreme at idle. The whole thing feels like it will fall appart at the red light. I just know I wouldn't enjoy it. The Fat boy has the balanced motor, so the vibes are there, but but much softer and are actually pleasant.  I know the cali14 shakes at idle too, but I don't suppose it's as bad as a dyna.

I feel like it takes a special person to enjoy a dyna. But maybe I'm just a big spoiled wimp, since I have always ridden jap cruisers and a Victory.

[segesta]

I have owned a California 1400 for almost two years now--I bought one of the first. And I am also a fan of the Harley Softail line, though my riding experience is with the Deluxe, not the Fat Boy. I think the two have different seating/handlebar geometries.
Random thoughts:
The Harley has a bigger engine, is narrower/lower (though you are 6' so not as big an issue), no traction control, no ride-by-wire mapping modes. New models have ABS standard. Being a Harley, you can customize it to death. Everyone has a Harley, so you're automatically part of that big family.

The California 1400 is smoother 'at speed', has Touring/Sport/Rain modes, traction control, and ABS. Low center of gravity so the low speed/parking lot handling is good. Accessories come from Italy and cost a fortune but are very well made. Nobody has a Guzzi, so you're automatically cool and unique.

Both weigh about the same--heavy. For commuting, both seem big to me. Both are cruel to my back--the upright 'cruiser' seating position turns my spine into a pogo stick when you hit a bump. Ironically, my lean-over-the-gas-tank Ducati is easier on the back.

And the Fat Boy costs about 20% more.

Of course, everyone else has their opinions too! I'm just one data point.

[Kev m]

That is correct, sir. It's the softail, not the dyna. I rode a dyna too. Can't handle the vibrations. It's way too extreme at idle. The whole thing feels like it will fall appart at the red light. I just know I wouldn't enjoy it. The Fat boy has the balanced motor, so the vibes are there, but but much softer and are actually pleasant.  I know the cali14 shakes at idle too, but I don't suppose it's as bad as a dyna.

I feel like it takes a special person to enjoy a dyna. But maybe I'm just a big spoiled wimp, since I have always ridden jap cruisers and a Victory.

Never mind then - forget the Cali - it's rubbermounted just like a Dyna or FLH (or my Sporty).

Frankly, I've NEVER EVER understood people who object about the feel of a rubbermount at idle. Probably they didn't ride the real paint shaker solidmount Sportsters or non-balanced EVO Softails. If they had they'd NEVER bitch about the shaking at idle.

You'll never get the handling (or the brakes) of the Cali in something like the Softail, but you're going to have to deal with shaking at idle if you want to ride the Cali.

[Vasco DG]

A major part of the shakes idle is down to the spark control of the idle speed. I'm guessing that this,ncoupled with the lean closed loop targets are the main cause.

Hopefully that will be adressable soon.

Pete

[segesta]

Hey, if you want smoothness at idle, get a Honda. Say, a Civic. :-)

[MariusD]

Thanks guys, this is a lot of really good input.

Seems you guys are saying that the cali14 shakes more than the softail, closer to the dyna? Is that right?

Hmmm....

Well, my experience with the dyna might have been a bit overblown for the reason that I rode the Switchback, which I later leanred is known to be a modern paint shaker even amongst the HD crowd. At idle, and when you just begin to accelerate this bike litterally rang, as if it had a dozen metal bells. I coudn't believe it. I don't mind a little character at idle, but this was just bad and to me felt all wrong... Anyway, maybe I need to take a different model dyna out for a test.

As for which model Cali14 I am after, I still don't really know. I sense I would like the plusher suspension better, and would be buing the bags anyway, so maybe the touring model is the better buy. But I definitely like the looks of the custom better, so if I get the custom, I can add the bags, change the handle bars, and set the suspension to the softer setting.

Is there a big difference in plushness of the suspension between the touring and custom?

[MariusD]

Hey, if you want smoothness at idle, get a Honda. Say, a Civic. :-)

lol! See.... this is where I really started to appreciate how Harley approached their bikes. Seems they designed the softail line exactly for poeple like me, who can appreciate character, but don't want to be overwhelmed by it. And as I started reading up on HD forums, there really are two clans within the Harley crowd: You have dyna fans who think softails are for girls, and your softail fans think the softail is the best bike HD ever made. Based on my experience with the Switchback, i would call myself a softail fan, but that SB might not have been a good example of a dyna from what i learned later.

I'm still hopeful the cali14 is not quiet as bad as that switchback.

[rocker59]

I've got news for you, if you think the Softail is a comfortable, nice handling motorcycle, the Cal 14 will show you another universe.

You'll either like the parallel universe, or you won't.  And you'll either be blown away by the much better ride, handling, and overall experience of the California, or you'll realize that you're an HD rider and what the Cal 14 offers you above and beyond the Softail really doesn't matter in the type of riding you do...

[Kev m]

Hmmm....

Well, my experience with the dyna might have been a bit overblown for the reason that I rode the Switchback, which I later leanred is known to be a modern paint shaker even amongst the HD crowd. At idle, and when you just begin to accelerate this bike litterally rang, as if it had a dozen metal bells. I coudn't believe it. I don't mind a little character at idle, but this was just bad and to me felt all wrong... Anyway, maybe I need to take a different model dyna out for a test.

One of the biggest problems I find with Harleys are all the "experts", i.e. all the guys who have ridden one or two of them and think they know everything about them and/or want their friends to at least think that. There have to be more myths and BS surrounding Harleys than any other brand I've been involved with. So based on that alone I'd tell you to be careful what you HEAR about Harleys from the HD crowd (or any crowd, myself included) and just find out for yourself.

I've ridden a number of Dynas (from EVO to TC models), including the Switchback which I demo'd within a week or so of it's initial release because I was thinking maybe it would be a nice down-sized RK (I find it rather Ironic that dimensionally it's much closer to my original 96 RK than the current RK).

Now it looks like there was an early Tech Bulletin regarding the Switchback and vibration, so maybe something DID go on, but that was years ago.

Unless there was just something broken on the one you demo'd then I'm gonna say you just don't like it (which is fine).

Maybe you'll want to ride another, or ride the Cali, but frankly I think the idle vibration is similar, and NOT A BIG DEAL..but that's me, I've put a LOT of miles on rubbermounted Harleys so what might bug one person might not even be a blip on my radar.

As for which model Cali14 I am after, I still don't really know. I sense I would like the plusher suspension better, and would be buing the bags anyway, so maybe the touring model is the better buy. But I definitely like the looks of the custom better, so if I get the custom, I can add the bags, change the handle bars, and set the suspension to the softer setting.

Is there a big difference in plushness of the suspension between the touring and custom?

I can't really say about "plushness", but I'm under the impression the Custom already has the better shocks in this case.

[Kev m]

lol! See.... this is where I really started to appreciate how Harley approached their bikes. Seems they designed the softail line exactly for poeple like me, who can appreciate character, but don't want to be overwhelmed by it. And as I started reading up on HD forums, there really are two clans within the Harley crowd: You have dyna fans who think softails and for girls, and your softail fans think the softail is the best bike HD ever made. Based on my experience with the Switchback, i would call myself a softail fan, but that SB might not have been a good example of a dyna from what i learned later.

I'm still hopeful the cali14 is not quiet as bad as that switchback.

It's way worse than that.

Sportster riders hate BT riders.

BT riders call Sportsters girls bikes.

Sportster riders call Softails girls bikes.

Dynas are really just big Sportsters, but don't tell Dyna riders that.

Now Baggers are the thing and Dyna and Softail riders are starting to turn their noses up at Baggers....


 :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu


Anyway, yeah, not all Dynas are the same, but then that can also be said about baggers.

I'm NOT trying to talk you out of a Cali... by all means, go ride one!

I'm just saying don't judge all Dynas or Softails or ___________ by one test ride either.

Good luck and have fun, I think there's a LOT to like about the Cali.

[Kev m]

They don't shake at idle like a non counter balanced HD

The ones I've seen and ridden did...

[rtbickel]

At anything above idle, the 1400 engine is like buttah!

[Kev m]

Well maybe , but Pete is on to something with the spark control at idle speed problem . The 1400 can be smoothed out , the HD is what it is . The one I witnessed , Steve Walker's , was fairly calm at idle . Once again , not bashing the MoCo and its products , just making an observation based on what has been seen . On the Victor Vibro scale , the HD is a 6 at idle , the 1400 a 4 .

  Dusty

Well, I still disagree with you, but it's not worth arguing about, I'm on the record for saying it's a stupid thing to worry about anyway on either bike cause as RTBick says, above idle it's butter anyway.

[MariusD]

My experience with the swithchback was that it had more of an annoying buzz, not really a shake, at idle and low rpm as you rolled into throttle .  This buzz came back strong in the 3k-4k rpm range. So for this particular dyna it was not limited to idle. I left the test ride thinking, WTF?! How can poeple enjoy this?!

I really think that particular model has issues, because as i looked into it the interent is littered with complains about this specific model. Something to do with the 2-1 exhaust is mounting to the chassis. The other proof may be that there are plenty of very low mile switchbacks on the used market. For some not-so-odd reason poeple don't tend to ride them much.

I don't mind a fun shake/rumble at idle, but this bike had a buzz, very distictly different from a shake.

So I guess it remains to be seen if the cali has more fo a buzz or a shake, but it is becoming clear to me that only a test ride will tell me whether I can enjoy it. So far everything you all have said about it in all other respects as it related to the fat boy seems very favorable, so I am not at all detered. I really think this could be my next daily mule.   

[segesta]

So I guess it remains to be seen if the cali has more fo a buzz or a shake,

The Cali has a nice big shake at idle, like a V twin should. Then you get to a mere 1500 rpm and it smooths out like a turbine. You'll like it, I think.

[moltoguzzi]

Thanks guys, this is a lot of really good input.

Seems you guys are saying that the cali14 shakes more than the softail, closer to the dyna? Is that right?

Hmmm....

Well, my experience with the dyna might have been a bit overblown for the reason that I rode the Switchback, which I later leanred is known to be a modern paint shaker even amongst the HD crowd. At idle, and when you just begin to accelerate this bike litterally rang, as if it had a dozen metal bells. I coudn't believe it. I don't mind a little character at idle, but this was just bad and to me felt all wrong... Anyway, maybe I need to take a different model dyna out for a test.

As for which model Cali14 I am after, I still don't really know. I sense I would like the plusher suspension better, and would be buing the bags anyway, so maybe the touring model is the better buy. But I definitely like the looks of the custom better, so if I get the custom, I can add the bags, change the handle bars, and set the suspension to the softer setting.

Is there a big difference in plushness of the suspension between the touring and custom?

I test rode a SB at Americade and couldn't wait to get off, the shaking got worse under acceleration, I'm assuming it was designed this way to attract more females to the little tourer, they love seat vibrations.

[lucian]

Too much information, you really have to take a test ride to experience the differences. I chose the custom 14 over several harley's with my wife on back each time , I had read a lot of reviews on the guzzi, but still had no concept of how it actually felt on the road. Every bike is a compromise in some respects, but I have been very happy thus far with our choice. As mentioned the  cali is a very big bike for a commuter, but I suspect you will be taking the long route to work if you purchase one. Best of luck with whatever you choose. One big advantage to the harley is resale value if you flip bikes a lot, where as the Guzzi is a niche brand and tougher to move. Personally I like to ride what I like to ride regardless.

[MariusD]

My commute is only 10 miles one way, 20mi total. It's typically a lot of stop and go slow moving traffic, so it helps to be comfortable when you have to stop a lot and start moving again. The fat boy makes this commute painless, so I'm hoping the cali14 would be similar in that respect.

Looks like I have to find time to take off work to make a trip to the closes dealership. Might be a while ...  :(

[MariusD]

Really sounds like you need a big scooter . Vasco will be along shortly to explain why a 1400 CC MC is the wrong tool for this job.

  Dusty

Lol! I've done this commute on everything from a crf230 to my current Victory Hammer 1600. I want to get down to one bike that I can use for everything, weekend tours and daily runs. I feel like cruisers do the best job for me overall. It's gonna come down to whether or not the cali14 feels bigger than the fat boy and my Hammer. Been riding for 8 years now, I feel like I know what I'm after at this stage;)

[lucian]

If I may ask, what is it about the victory you are not satisfied with ?

[oldbike54]

 Hell , been riding for 47 years and still not sure what I want 

  Dusty

[Kev m]

It's funny, the Guzzi is, for the market segment, relatively light and definitely nimble. BUT it's LONG and maybe not quite as low as some others. The end result is that it feels bigger then it is.

Vic's, like Indians, are pretty darn long. But the Vic's are still pretty narrow and feel smaller than they are to me.

I would probably have no problem commuting on it, but I can't imagine a crappy stop and go commute... Hopefully it's not all city blocks and is at least some winding surface streets and more than a few blocks between lights.

[oldbike54]

 I see Seamus is not on the job .

  Dusty

[Kev m]

I see Seamus is not on the job .

  Dusty

True dat lol.... He's taking a bath...

[oldbike54]

True dat lol.... He's taking a bath...

 There are members that are thinking WTH are these two talking about . HA !

  Dusty

[MariusD]

If I may ask, what is it about the victory you are not satisfied with ?

Like Kev M said, Vics are pretty long, so to toss it around in city traffic is just not so easy. I found the fat boy much more "tossable" for whatever reason. I just seem to be able to throw it over into the next lane easier, at low speeds. Now, a lot of it might be due to the 250mm rear tire that is specifically a Victory Hammer feature. Overall though, that's really a minor complaint.

My bigger reason is I need storage, and I just cannot bring myself to put bags on this bike. It's such a great looking bike as it sits, it hurts to ruin it's look. I also want floorboards, and a rear luggage rack, which also look completely ridiculous on this bike. I've had it 4 years now and loved blasting around for up to say 200, max 300 miles a day. But again, can't bring a rain suit, or a backpack. So I want more function, is really why I will get rid of it. Not because i don't love it. It's a fantastic bike to blast around on and just have fun. Leaves that 96ci fat boy far far behind, even in the curves.