Fat Boy vs Cali 1400?!

[MariusD]

It's funny, the Guzzi is, for the market segment, relatively light and definitely nimble. BUT it's LONG and maybe not quite as low as some others. The end result is that it feels bigger then it is.

Vic's, like Indians, are pretty darn long. But the Vic's are still pretty narrow and feel smaller than they are to me.

I would probably have no problem commuting on it, but I can't imagine a crappy stop and go commute... Hopefully it's not all city blocks and is at least some winding surface streets and more than a few blocks between lights.

The commute is really a good mix of everything, I'd say 7 miles of slow moving highway and 3 miles slow city traffic. This is why i need to sit comfortably.

Which actually brings me to another important question: how is low speed fueling on the cali14? That's a big deal in my situation.I realized that the reason the fat boy works so darn well, is not just that it has great ergos, with floorboards, a low wide seat, and wide tires that make it super stable, but also because the counter weights on the engine make for very smooth low speed acceleration. Doesn't jerk or buck, just moves smoothly at whatever pace is required. Really, riding the fatboy is just pure bliss at anything under say 70mph. The only cruiser that I've ridden that was smoother was the Vulcan 1700. That's a real road couch right there. It's my alternative choice if the guzzi doesn't work out. The problem with the Vulcan is it feels BIG and also the suspension is so plush that the engine doesn't feel fast at all. You just can't feel the acceleration, so the fun factor is not quiet there. Still, my goal is getting around comfortably, and so I think the VN1700 would be good for that. I'm hoping the cali1400 is a good blend of all that I'm looking for.

[Guzzistajohn]

That's a BUNCH of cabbage just to get your arse back and forth to work. (suspender <ker-snap!>

[MariusD]

That's a BUNCH of cabbage just to get your arse back and forth to work. (suspender <ker-snap!>

Well, this would be the bike I use for everything. The commute is just part of it. Since I do that daily, it needs to work well. But I also do long weekend rides very often, and now plan to start doing multi day trips. The bike needs to work well for that too.

I dang near bought a Kawasaki Voyager... :-P  Now that bike would have been way too much for what I do.

[Kev m]

First the Hammer is about the same weight (maybe a little lighter) and almost the identical wheelbase, yet a few inches shorter than the Cali. So right there, even if it breaks over for a turn a little quicker, I'm not seeing any night and day differences and I don't expect you'll feel them either.

And as for the aesthetic objection about putting bags on a Hammer? I dunno man, your comments aren't going to fall on a lot of sympathetic ears here. Well, hey, I even like Vics in general (at least from a ride and mechanical standpoint) and arguably I'm way more "cruiser" friendly than your average MG owner, but there is nothing about the looks of a Hammer that says to me it can't wear bags.

Get a different bike because you're tired of it, or you just WANT something different, but Puh-leaze, the Vics aren't that good looking to begin with that it couldn't wear and shield and bags if you wanted.

I dunno, you're heaping enough praise on the Fat Boy that it makes me wonder why you're looking elsewhere.

The low speed fueling, I can't comment on because I've owned a half dozen bikes where people bitch about the low speed fueling and I've been like "WHAT?  Basically I think people make mountains out of molehills on that...

...but that said, Harley seems to have their fueling pretty damn well sorted, especially compared to some of the complaints around here.

I dunno... like I keep saying, you're going to have to ride to decide, but I'm thinking you've already made up your mind so a ride might be useless cause it's likely only going to confirm what you want it to...

... Then again, big deal, you'll just be "stuck" with a nice bike if that happens.

[redrider90]

There are members that are thinking WTH are these two talking about . HA !

  Dusty

that is what I am thinking about this whole thread!  WTF   

[Kent in Upstate NY]

For what it is worth, my first bike was an 82 Sportster. I never even noticed the vibrations.

[MariusD]

Kev:

Looks are always a subjective thing, so that part isn't worth arguing over. I personally think Vics are some of the best looking bikes out there currently, but Guzzis are right there with them.

Function, on the other hand, is a lot less subjective.

For my commute, I need to pack a laptop, rain gear, lunch and a gym bag. For weekend touring it would be more stuff. The bags I can get for the Hammer can't fit the laptop....

I've seen many guys spend tons of dollars and hours turning muscle cruisers into tourers only to realize that the bike still is what it is, with it's sport tires, firm suspension, general ergonomics that are beyond simple mods to change, no cruise control, and still very limited luggage capacity. To do the complete transformation on the hammer not only would cost good money, but in the end, still wouldn't result in the comfort and function that comes with a purpose built bike. I've seen it fail too many times to go down that path. I don't consider it a smart move.


I firmly believe there's the right tool for the right job, and while I was blasting around the back roads in my late 20s on the Hammer, life was great, but now my riding style has changed and the Hammer is no longer the right tool for the job. And I don't think it wise to spend the time and effort turning it into something that it is not. It's really that simple.

[lucian]

I hate to say it but it sounds like you might be better off with one of the smaller harley's for all the reasons mentioned. You wont appreciate the cali for a short commuter, it's just to big and heavy, but on the open road it's hard to beat, it is a true cruiser. No 700 lb. bike is going to be nimble at slow speeds and stop and go riding. I think you have stumbled upon the reason why so many of us here maintain more than one bike. I think you may seriously want to consider that option. Just a thought.  Dave

[Kev m]

Marius,

I hope you don't think I'm just giving you guff, but bikes with bags and shields (especially this style of bike) has been my mainstay for a few decades. Sportsters and FLHs, Oilheads and Airheads, Guzzi big blocks and small blocks. I've repeatedly dabbled in other styles (sport, standard, sport tourer), but I've always come back to the "cruiser, classic, tourer".

If you really wanted to bag up the Hammer I'm sure you could come up with something that would carry the laptop.

But even so, if you like Vic's so much, what's wrong with their baggers?

I've ridden a few in the past few years and loved them mechanically, but I'm not sold on the aesthetics.

And please don't take this the wrong way, but calling the Hammer a power cruiser and using terms like "sport" for the tires or suspension are doing to draw some sarcasm from this crowd.

I DO get what you're looking for (I think) and I'm probably more open to the more subtle differences between a Vic and Harley that would glaze over the eyes of the average Guzzi rider.

Again, maybe the Cali will be what you want. But I just don't see it being different enough for the terms you use, unless you're talking about just the fact that you can buy one with bags on it already.

I'm not trying to talk you out of one, as I think they're great bikes. I'm just suspecting that you're convincing yourself of differences that aren't there or justifying it with some spurious arguments.

Of course, if I'm reading it wrong, and I may be, it's just weird on a phone, mea-culpa.

Either way, have fun and enjoy the search.

Do please let us know what you think of the Cali when you get to ride it.

But if size is really a thing, I'd at least consider the Dyna Fat Bob, with some LeatherLyke bags or maybe HB C-Bows and some OEM mid mounts. It'll be a bit smaller, a bit lighter, and have way more aftermarket support.

[Vasco DG]

Whatever machine you buy, and if you like Cruisers I'd say at least go ride a Cali It's an impressive bike, BUT, and Dusty is right, I'm going to run out my 'Lecture', riding a big bike of any sort for your commute is a rotten idea. In cold weather it will barely have time to warm up and in hot weather it will be prone to overheating issues, especially in stop/go traffic. It's also murder on a motor to sit for long periods of time and never clear its throat.

By all means buy a big bike for fun and trips but for your commute you could get a 250cc scooter with enormous under-seat storage, enough performance to out drag most things from the lights, better weather protection, cheaper servicing and much greater economy. And you know the best thing? It'll pay for itself in a couple of years. How so? In the reduced running costs, low insurance and lack of wear and tear on your 'Bigger' toy.

There are hosts of really great scooters out there, or, if you really have a bias against scooters? Buy a couple of years old 125/250 motorbike for the commute for exactly the same reasons as the Scoots but with a scoot you get an auto transmission which is a great boon in traffic. Believe me, my *Other* bike is an Aprilia Mana. Best commuting weapon ever!

Pete

[Graham UK]

Back on the topic of vibrations at idle, I thought MG deliberately designed those in on the Cali 1400 to give it character and that they disappear as soon as the bike is rolling.  So, they're not a problem but there for your enjoyment.  Personally, I like some vibration as it helps in communicating with the bike, especially if I'm wearing ear plugs and so can't hear the engine above the wind noise.

[cruzziguzzi]

I got dizzy mid way through the responses so I'll jump straight to the end with my recent observations.

My wife had me dispose of a Fat Boy from one of her estate sales just last month. Couple things really stood out to me and may not apply to other folks's but stand out they did:

I couldn't begin to corner anyway near a Guzzi. Even red light, moderate right turns caused fricto-carnage from floor boards, pipes, whatever.

Looked like a real headache to get that rear tire off and it was what I feel will one day be a passe' dimension though I guess that's not really new to some Guzzi riders.

Incredibly comfortable going straight or leaning in turns - just watch the speed.

Outstanding fuel injection performance. Nary a glitch nor hiccup... cold, warm or hot. Lugged or revved.

While I didn't get to experience it on this particular bike, I have in the past noted that solid wheels - front in particular - are a pain in cross country cross-winds, even quartering ones.

Noting that it may not be standard, the system of bypassing the alarm in the case of a dead key fob battery (keyless starting) was a gigantic pain in the ass for the owner. I know one never endeavors to simplify theft but not giving enough time to press punch through the code before the alarm goes off SUCKS!

Todd.

[stephenm]

>>I'd say 7 miles of slow moving highway and 3 miles slow city traffic...how is low speed fueling on the cali14?<<

The 1400 idles along in first at about 10mph.
If your 'slow highway and city traffic' is slower than that,
you will be doing plenty of clutch work.

Stephen

[MariusD]

Well, thanks everyone! You all have certainly given me things to consider. I found a dealership that allows test rides about 3 hours away, so I will try to get there this coming saturday. Then I will know for sure. 

[Kev m]

Awesome!!! Let us know what you think! 

[andrewdonald1]

Whatever machine you buy, and if you like Cruisers I'd say at least go ride a Cali It's an impressive bike, BUT, and Dusty is right, I'm going to run out my 'Lecture', riding a big bike of any sort for your commute is a rotten idea. In cold weather it will barely have time to warm up and in hot weather it will be prone to overheating issues, especially in stop/go traffic. It's also murder on a motor to sit for long periods of time and never clear its throat.

By all means buy a big bike for fun and trips but for your commute you could get a 250cc scooter with enormous under-seat storage, enough performance to out drag most things from the lights, better weather protection, cheaper servicing and much greater economy. And you know the best thing? It'll pay for itself in a couple of years. How so? In the reduced running costs, low insurance and lack of wear and tear on your 'Bigger' toy.

There are hosts of really great scooters out there, or, if you really have a bias against scooters? Buy a couple of years old 125/250 motorbike for the commute for exactly the same reasons as the Scoots but with a scoot you get an auto transmission which is a great boon in traffic. Believe me, my *Other* bike is an Aprilia Mana. Best commuting weapon ever!

Pete

I was going to recommend the Mana 850.  Get one used and keep the Hammer.    Used mana's up here in Seattle area go around $4 or $5K, I don't think there's much demand for them.
If I remember right they take a full size helmet in the fake gas tank.    I haven't ridden one, but wouldn't mind trying it out. 

[LowRyter]

You'll get a good view of the FB from rear view mirrors of the Cal 14 before it disappears.

[F650RIDER]

Well, my experience with the dyna might have been a bit overblown for the reason that I rode the Switchback, which I later leanred is known to be a modern paint shaker even amongst the HD crowd. At idle, and when you just begin to accelerate this bike litterally rang, as if it had a dozen metal bells. I coudn't believe it. I don't mind a little character at idle, but this was just bad and to me felt all wrong... Anyway, maybe I need to take a different model dyna out for a test.

Wondering what year Switchback you test rode.

I traded my 2004 RoadKing in on a 2014 Switchback last month because I wanted something lighter with ABS since most of my riding is now local.  At idle, I can't tell any difference between the Switchback and the RoadKing - both have a nice vibe IMHO and I don't hear any ringing when I accelerate the Switchback.  However, there's a noticable "shaking" between 2800 - 3200rpm at any gear on this bike.  Searching the internet resulted in finding others who are experiencing the same issue - especially at 80mph in 6th gear.  At 75mph in 6th gear, my SB is around 2750rpm and feels very smooth.  I tend to ride at 75mph on the open highway so it's not been a concern to me.  But out of curiosity, I'm going to try the fix that involves spending $5 for a clevis pin,  washers, and a hairpin clip from Lowes (known as the Clevis Pin Mod) to address the vibration problem - which seems to be created by the mid-mount on the stock exhaust.  Those who have applied this fix and commented say the vibration is virtually gone. 

[arveno]

make it simple , you said you rode a fat boy and a dyna , so now it is time to go test ride a cali 1400.
We can stay here all day explaining pro /cons but without a test ride..... do not mean anything.
Your money , your choice , go to see a cali in person not on the internet or u tube and test ride it... it will help to make the final decision.
let us know how it goes,
ciao

[esmurrell]

Well, this would be the bike I use for everything. The commute is just part of it. Since I do that daily, it needs to work well. But I also do long weekend rides very often, and now plan to start doing multi day trips. The bike needs to work well for that too.

I dang near bought a Kawasaki Voyager... :-P  Now that bike would have been way too much for what I do.

I'm glad you didn't buy the Voyager.  I bought one a few years ago and kept it only 6 months.  After severe 'monkey butt' and no highway acceleration which almost left me hit a few times, enough was enough.  Plus the finish on that bike is very poor.  Comparing it to anything Moto Guzzi makes from a finish perspective is night and day.  I don't have a Cali. 1400 but I do have a Norge GT, have owned a Breva and have ridden the Cali. 1400 and can tell you that Guzzi makes bikes that are tons of fun.  They take care when building them and you will enjoy riding them.  That's what makes the difference for me.  While your commute isn't long, I don't think the Cali. 1400 is ill suited for it.  In fact, if I could recoup a fair amount of what I have in my '14 R1200RT, I would sell it and get a Cali. 1400 Touring tomorrow.  I'm just sayin.....

[mjptexas]

At anything above idle, the 1400 engine is like buttah!

:1:

Been riding my Custom for 18 months & 10,000 miles.  Anything above idle is smooth.

Great bike on the road.

Around town?
- Idle shake is tiresome in heavy stop and go
- Relatively easy to launch and ride in slow traffic (I'd say no worse than most big block Guzzis)
- Some complain about the heat but it never bothered me
- Fuel mileage in stop and go is abysmal (think F150 Ford - well, maybe not quite that bad, but still lousy)

[MariusD]

Wondering what year Switchback you test rode.

I traded my 2004 RoadKing in on a 2014 Switchback last month because I wanted something lighter with ABS since most of my riding is now local.  At idle, I can't tell any difference between the Switchback and the RoadKing - both have a nice vibe IMHO and I don't hear any ringing when I accelerate the Switchback.  However, there's a noticable "shaking" between 2800 - 3200rpm at any gear on this bike.  Searching the internet resulted in finding others who are experiencing the same issue - especially at 80mph in 6th gear.  At 75mph in 6th gear, my SB is around 2750rpm and feels very smooth.  I tend to ride at 75mph on the open highway so it's not been a concern to me.  But out of curiosity, I'm going to try the fix that involves spending $5 for a clevis pin,  washers, and a hairpin clip from Lowes (known as the Clevis Pin Mod) to address the vibration problem - which seems to be created by the mid-mount on the stock exhaust.  Those who have applied this fix and commented say the vibration is virtually gone.

I rode a bone stock 2013 with 1200 miles on it. I have read about the clevis pin solution as well, but it seems people have had mixed results. If it wasn't for the crazy shaking, I would own this bike. I really thought it was a great blend of comfort / size / wieght /performance. Hoping this cali14 will do it for me. 

[MariusD]

make it simple , you said you rode a fat boy and a dyna , so now it is time to go test ride a cali 1400.
We can stay here all day explaining pro /cons but without a test ride..... do not mean anything.
Your money , your choice , go to see a cali in person not on the internet or u tube and test ride it... it will help to make the final decision.
let us know how it goes,
ciao

yes, sir! That's the plan at this point. Next weekends mission, if life cooperates, is to get some seat time on one of these beauties.

[MariusD]

I'm glad you didn't buy the Voyager.  I bought one a few years ago and kept it only 6 months.  After severe 'monkey butt' and no highway acceleration which almost left me hit a few times, enough was enough.  Plus the finish on that bike is very poor.  Comparing it to anything Moto Guzzi makes from a finish perspective is night and day.  I don't have a Cali. 1400 but I do have a Norge GT, have owned a Breva and have ridden the Cali. 1400 and can tell you that Guzzi makes bikes that are tons of fun.  They take care when building them and you will enjoy riding them.  That's what makes the difference for me.  While your commute isn't long, I don't think the Cali. 1400 is ill suited for it.  In fact, if I could recoup a fair amount of what I have in my '14 R1200RT, I would sell it and get a Cali. 1400 Touring tomorrow.  I'm just sayin.....

Sorry to hear your experience with the voyager was so bad. I can totally understand what you mean about the power. It seemed barely enough for the Vulcan 1700 that I rode, so it makes sense that it would barely get out of it's way with an extra 150lb on the voyager.

That '14 r12rt has to be a super nice bike. Curious why you'd trade it for a cali14. It's price tag and maintenance cost is the only reason I don't own one.

[MariusD]

:1:

Been riding my Custom for 18 months & 10,000 miles.  Anything above idle is smooth.

Great bike on the road.

Around town?
- Idle shake is tiresome in heavy stop and go
- Relatively easy to launch and ride in slow traffic (I'd say no worse than most big block Guzzis)
- Some complain about the heat but it never bothered me
- Fuel mileage in stop and go is abysmal (think F150 Ford - well, maybe not quite that bad, but still lousy)

Thanks, that's actually very helpfull. I will pay attention to those things when I test ride.

MPG doesn't bother me. I tend to think poeple give it way too much weight, especially for the miles most riders actually cover. But of course, it's all personal preference.

If I may ask, how is the suspension of the Custom over bad roads? Is it pretty stiff or does it soak up the pavement fairly well? Roads are so bad around here that I'm always bouncing on the bike, so a good suspension that soaks it up well is worth a lot to me.

[segesta]

If I may ask, how is the suspension of the Custom over bad roads? Is it pretty stiff or does it soak up the pavement fairly well? Roads are so bad around here that I'm always bouncing on the bike, so a good suspension that soaks it up well is worth a lot to me.

Here in Illinois we too have terrible roads, lots of frost heaves after two very cold winters. The forks are not adjustable on the California 1400 Custom, but I have been adjusting the damping on the rear shocks. I confess that I have not found a perfect setting yet--I am short and light, so stiff springs bounce me around pretty good--but I'm certain there's a sweet spot to be found. The factory settings are fairly harsh.

Your mileage--and ability to adjust the Custom's shocks--may vary. I'm sure others have secrets to share.

[mjptexas]

Thanks, that's actually very helpfull. I will pay attention to those things when I test ride.

MPG doesn't bother me. I tend to think poeple give it way too much weight, especially for the miles most riders actually cover. But of course, it's all personal preference.

If I may ask, how is the suspension of the Custom over bad roads? Is it pretty stiff or does it soak up the pavement fairly well? Roads are so bad around here that I'm always bouncing on the bike, so a good suspension that soaks it up well is worth a lot to me.

To make sure I'm clear on the mileage - country riding up to 70mph you'll get above 40 mpg, above 70mph it starts to drop off.  Above 85mph, start looking for gas stations.  Around town I can average high 20s.  In solid stop and go - I've seen it drop to 20 mpg.

I have no complaints about the suspension.  You can always improve suspensions, but I've never had an issue.  For reference I do almost all of my riding solo, and probably weigh 215 with all my gear.  I have done some two-up, and have loaded it up for a week long trip (again solo), but still no issues.

Now, I haven't ridden Every Harley but I seriously doubt that there is a NEW stock Harley out there that has a dramatically better ride than a Cali 1400.  And I'll bet there isn't a stock Harley that handles the curves as well (I think that's a safe bet because none of them have the ground clearance. ;)

[esmurrell]

Sorry to hear your experience with the voyager was so bad. I can totally understand what you mean about the power. It seemed barely enough for the Vulcan 1700 that I rode, so it makes sense that it would barely get out of it's way with an extra 150lb on the voyager.

That '14 r12rt has to be a super nice bike. Curious why you'd trade it for a cali14. It's price tag and maintenance cost is the only reason I don't own one.

My R1200RT is a fine bike.  In fact, the more I ride it the more I like it.  The problem is that I don't love it.  It's not as comfortable as my Norge and the engine sounds a little like a tractor.  It's quite powerful and quick off the line and handles beautifully.  I find myself about 10-12 mph faster in corners on the RT than on my Norge.  The Norge however, feels like a motorcycle should, has a great exhaust note and is just plain fun to ride.  It's definitely a keeper.  The only change I've made to mine is changing the stock windshield for a CalSci medium shield.  I will add a cruise control sometime this year (when I get around to it) and a GPS and satellite radio.  That'll be it and I plan to ride it for a long time. 

[MariusD]

Here in Illinois we too have terrible roads, lots of frost heaves after two very cold winters. The forks are not adjustable on the California 1400 Custom, but I have been adjusting the damping on the rear shocks. I confess that I have not found a perfect setting yet--I am short and light, so stiff springs bounce me around pretty good--but I'm certain there's a sweet spot to be found. The factory settings are fairly harsh.

Your mileage--and ability to adjust the Custom's shocks--may vary. I'm sure others have secrets to share.

Ok this is very good to know. The Cali14 only needs to be a little better than the Hammer and only as good as the Fat Boy in terms of suspension plushness, so my bar is not unreasonably hight. From personal experience I know having the seat modified with a little more padding can help to take off the edge siginificantly. The seat mod is probably something I'll be doing anyway.

Then there is also the aftermarket suspension parts.

My loaded weight is close to that of MJPTEXAS, so hopefully I can dial it in with minor adjustments, and enjoy it like he does.

It's surprising that the cali14 get's into the low 20s int he city. My hammer gets a worse of high 20s and that's running it like I stole it for the whole tank. But again, I am not going to pretend like that actualy matters, because in the end the real life diffence of dollars spent on gas is negligible.

esmurrell:
The way you describe your guzzi vs the bmw is like a Harley owner would describe his experience on a jap bike! lol! :-P
I understand where you are coming from, certain engines you just don't do it for you. I had a similar experience with the Yamaha Super tenere. The engine just felt "all wrong" to me. Otherwise, I really liked the bike.

[Kev m]

Actually, now that I think I better understand what you're looking for... unless the shaking at idle bothers you, I THINK you're going to really like the Cali.

I mean, if FatBoy and Hammer "plushness" is your bar, it's set pretty mid-range...

and if handling and performance is a similar bar, it's pretty low, and should be easy for a Cali to exceed it.

I can't wait to hear your report.