Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Curtis Harper on September 11, 2015, 03:06:57 PM
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Firstly , I am not using this quote to shame the original user, which is why I am not using his name and starting a new thread. I am using it to make a point, it is the content of the statement that has really drawn my attention. Daily, I get phone calls from people who complain about the low number of Guzzi dealers in the United states or their area of the country where ever that may be. Read the following statement, and ask yourself one question. Have you ever been mad at Wal-Mart for causing the demise of the local small business owner?
I would turn to the dealer if I had no luck elsewhere, but I thought my prospects would be better if I just went to an industrial supplier. I suppose I was afraid that the dealer wouldn't stock such a small item, and that their recourse would be to have the part shipped from Italy!
The ability to find part sources besides the dealer is certainly everyone's right. And of course we all do it to a point. If I can go down to the HVAC parts house and get a 40 dollar part for my air conditioner and not pay a $100 service call, I'm gonna do just that. But I don't call the local AC guy for advice either.
However there are certain things that warrant (In my opinion) supporting the local merchant. For instance my mountain bike, I have a Specialized dealer three blocks from my house and he knows the product, he knows me and he stocks parts. If I need a tube, I walk in and get it. I get a nice appreciative conversation, look at some cool new widgets and go home. If I am feeling ultra lazy, I'll drop the bike off, have it fixed and tuned up and come back next week.
If I opt for plan B, I drive 6 blocks to walmart, park 4 blocks away, go in and find the tube myself, get my feet stepped on by out of control kids running around the bike area. Try to find someone to ask a question? HAH. Get frustrated, go screw around with the self check out line, cuss at the computo register, grumpy cashier comes over and repeats process. Return home look at bike, it's two hours later and I have other crap to go do. Saved $1.33.
Point being, Every Guzzi dealer out there is a small independent local merchant. And every time someone wants to outsource their parts at Napa or Wal-Mart or the bearing house, what ever, less and less profit is being made by that local merchant that is your link to parts and service. Thus, it is not worth his floor space to handle the product. I see this played out on every forum that I read. And I read many more of them than I post on. The dealer is usually the last place people reference when discussing parts. I'm not talking about buying parts just from my shop, I'm talking about from your closest Guzzi shop. Make them your first call, not your last.
If you want to see more dealers, it has to be worth their while.
My rant.
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I have to agree 100%. It really is a chicken-egg thing.
I never saw the use in saving a couple of bucks on a non factory filter and risking some sort of problem. For this same reason, I take my car to the dealer for service.
My local dealer (Scoot Richmond, 125 miles away!) has been awesome to work with, in spite of being a pretty new dealer. They are well worth supporting.
I try to save money where it makes sense, but this is not one of them in my opinion.
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What is worse then them first going to Walmart, is first coming to your shop, asking you to research what parts and part numbers they need (or try something on to see what size fits), then say I'll let you know! After they get the info they need from the shop owner they go right to hopping on the net to get the best price. Happens to my shop often. Some even do it right in the store on their smart phone!
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Well, I agree with you 100% in principle, but I have very good (documented) reason to believe that my "local" (~25 miles away) Guzzi dealer is less than honest. I spent considerable time and some money having a bike repaired because this local dealer allegedly performed the cam/lifter update (but he did not). I expect better.
I support those that I have found to be honest and forthright. My local dealer is not one of them, in my opinion.
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As the former lead for Guzzi and Aprilia at a dealer that was sold (and then pulled from the Piaggio fold by the new owner despite constant claims of no plans to do so), I have a bit of personal stake in this.
Dealers deserve respect, courtesy, and opportunity.
Dealers earn customers, loyalty and success.
When it comes to minor service parts, it is often much faster to get a machine back on the road using parts that are common to many machines, The dealer may not be in practical distance (my nearest now is more than 200 miles), the dealer may not have the part (my nearest dealer stocks almost nothing, he can't afford to). When it comes to more significant materials or work, I would certainly put the dealer at the top of my list - if that's where the competent techs and educated salespeople are. If the dealer's face to the customer is a KFOOS (kid fresh out of school) with an attitude, then there's little incentive to support that dealer.
The majority of Moto Guzzi dealers I have dealt with are above the mean when it comes to knowledge, skill, and professionalism; not all of them, but most. Some are so idiosyncratic that they may be experts in their specialty but barely deserve consideration when it comes to other things. Not to name anyone, but we all know at least one Guzzi dealer that barely acknowledges the existence of fuel injection, or conversely never heard of the brand till this century. These characteristics are not the thing of which success is built...
The thread was started with the encouragement to make a call to our nearest dealer our first recourse, rather than our last. That's not a bad idea, but it works best when that dealer is within an hour or two by road, or within a day by shipping. Once that distance is passed, then every dealer becomes 'your' dealer, and non-traditional sources have to be considered. The only way out of this loop is one that requires investment and perhaps some innovation. If dealers can't stock all the parts (and they can't), then perhaps it's time for Piaggio to adopt the model of vendors like Motorcyclegear.com - or even Amazon. Let the dealer take the order and process the payment - and then drop-ship from one or more central warehouses. Parts for dealer installation can go in bundles, parts for consumers can go direct, with surcharges for urgency if needed.
Finally, dealers and manufacturers have got to come to grips with the fact that consumers are as educated as they choose to become. I recently had to replace the starter on my Norge. With no local dealer, I checked for availability and price from a number of sources outside my state and area. No one had one on the shelf; all wanted a relatively high price. A starter is a sourced commodity, requiring little skill to pull and replace, and is not specific to the Norge - it isn't even specific to a motorcycle, since the same starter is used in Renaults, the Smart Car, and other small European cars. At that point, the dealer has not earned the business by investing in availability of parts (prompt service), and hasn't engendered loyalty in the customer (competitive pricing). I ordered from Amazon, had it two days later (less time than any of the estimates from dealers by a factor of 4), at half the price, which meant my bike was back on the road.
Customers can influence dealer success and viability, but dealers have to be partners in that process. Most of all, Piaggio has to undertake a major, aggressive campaign to enable and support its dealers in succeeding, something that has been only half-hearted in my (direct) experience.
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When I lived in the "Big City" my first inquiry was to the dealer,and usually bought my parts there.I also made myself known to the parts persons and service manager. In doing this I received a discount on parts for being a regular customer. In most of today's dealers nobody knows anybody,if it's not in the computer "they can get it" for you
and discounts are few and far between. However all the shelving and displays in the showroom are where the profits are being spent not on parts inventory. I now prefer to do my own parts chasing and price comparison as it has mostly become a dumbed down society when it comes to mechanical knowledge. I realize it is a tremendous investment to carry a good inventory but if that's what it takes to keep customers, so be it. Most shops are just botiques nowadays and I'll take NAPA over that every time. Don't get me started on pricing and mark-up. :evil:
Paul B. :boozing:
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I would love to have a local dealer who stocked some parts for my bikes but after every attempt to buy parts locally I've been disappointed I find it is just much easier to just order what I need from on line suppliers. I can get most everything I need from Harper's or MG Cycles in a day or two.
I owned an auto dealership at one time and I can relate to the need to support local dealers as much as possible but having no luck buying valve cover gaskets or an oil pan gasket for my CalVin from my local dealer I pretty much gave up going there. (They did offer to order them for me.)
I think we will just have to admit that if we are to ride Moto Guzzi motorcycles, most of us will not have a local dealer who does enough volume to be able to give us the service we would like. There has to be profit for the dealership to stock a large assortment of parts.
If we just look at the different models of new bikes, we can see that it takes a lot of parts to just take care of the needs of currant models, let alone trying to have what one might need for a past model. most of the people I know who ride Guzzi bikes would never think about going to the selling dealer for routine service. That means the only potential for profit at the dealership is new and used sales. I don't think we are likely to see a surge of new Guzzi dealerships opening up with out the potential for profits from the service department and parts department.
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I had the same sort of issue with the local grocery store in the small town I lived in. Their prices were higher than the big city stores and their stock was more limited, but I wanted to have a grocery store in my town so I spent money there when I could. If people didn't shop there it would have been a 30 mile drive every time I wanted a jar of peanut butter.
When I stopped thinking of it as a small grocery store and started thinking of it as a huge convenience store it was a lot easier to swallow, and it was actually very reasonable and well stocked for a big convenience store!! :cool:
Some times the perception of reality is more important than reality.
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It's a tough thing, small retail business. Someone is always looking for an advantage to exploit and it's normally to someone else's disadvantage. There is another well known (to us) after market Guzzi parts supplier who found a niche which needed filling, and seems to have built a fair small business around that need. What's the need? Business acumen. Stocking the parts we mostly need and letting us know up front if they are in fact in stock. Getting them to us in a timely fashion. Opportunities like this still exist in the Guzzi world in my view. There are plenty of stories out there, and we've all heard about poor dealer support. Here's a familiar one: When I bought my most recent CARC Guzzi, I also bought 10 oil filters. You know the rest of the story. Some leaked, some didn't...AN OIL FILTER FOR HEAVENS SAKE! :violent1: The dealer wouldn't help and blamed Guzzi. :cry: If the Guzzi dealer I buy my bike from can't get an oil filter that holds the oil inside the engine, then what am I if I keep buying them from him. Instead, I'll go find one that'll work and never look back. Sometimes I'm more likely to find a part I need in McMaster-Carr than my closest Guzzi dealer. I find it annoying to hear dealers publically complaining about customers. Really, if they want to thrive in business they should instead listen to them.
Best,
Peter
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Sad to say that our local Honda dealer closed doors after 46 years. They did wheel spoking for my classic bikes and new tires for my entire stable (none of which were Hondas). I used them as much as possible and did receive a discount.
Their problems were complex but boiled down to:
1. Ever increasing local taxes (this is NJ after all!)
2. People using the store for fitting and then buying internet.
No easy answers here.
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So few Guzzi dealers?
Half the $$$ sales from the Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki lines come from:
Water Craft
4 Wheelers
Snow Machines
Scooters
Generators
Outboard motors etc etc etc
Where are the Guzzi Scooters? Guzzi Golf Carts?
Might have a few more dealers interested in Guzzi motorcycles if there were a broader, year-round market for Guzzi branded alternate seasonal vehicles.
'Geezer
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I understand and support my local small dealership.
Used to carry 3 brands. In the last year they were squeezed out of 2 of those brands.
Now down to 1.
But they really take care of that brand.
And me.
They greet me by name.
I sold my non supported bikes in protest.
I buy all my tires there. And oil. And clotbing.
Lots of little items I could get elsewhere.
Their presence in the area is highly appreciated by local motorcyclists.
If only they took on Moto Guzzi!
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Dealers sell products, they don't make them. When someone buys a Moto Guzzi and then are never seen from again until they need some part for which the customer is unwilling to wait for shipping if it isn't in stock, there is part of the answer.
There is no miracle of business that prevents more shops from being MG dealers except demand for the product. If the models are designed for stuck in yesteryear riders, there are only so many of them and not enough to support more than a very sparse dealer network.
Look what happens anytime a MG that has been modded in some non traditional way is spoken of. You'd think people were being asked to ride naked with pink body paint. Oh no, can't deviate from what a Moto Guzzi is supposed to be. Well, there aren't enough people who want what Moto Guzzi is making to support more dealerships.
Take the horsepower for the V7 as an example. OK, it is what it is but it should be obvious that relatively few people want one. Stuff in more HP? No, but does that mean nothing else that does have more? The market demands it and those in that market just find it elsewhere. Telling customers they don't need something only works if your company is Apple, everyone else better listen up or find out what supply and demand really means.
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Firstly , I am not using this quote to shame the original user, which is why I am not using his name and starting a new thread. I am using it to make a point, it is the content of the statement that has really drawn my attention. Daily, I get phone calls from people who complain about the low number of Guzzi dealers in the United states or their area of the country where ever that may be. Read the following statement, and ask yourself one question. Have you ever been mad at Wal-Mart for causing the demise of the local small business owner?
I would turn to the dealer if I had no luck elsewhere, but I thought my prospects would be better if I just went to an industrial supplier. I suppose I was afraid that the dealer wouldn't stock such a small item, and that their recourse would be to have the part shipped from Italy!
The ability to find part sources besides the dealer is certainly everyone's right. And of course we all do it to a point. If I can go down to the HVAC parts house and get a 40 dollar part for my air conditioner and not pay a $100 service call, I'm gonna do just that. But I don't call the local AC guy for advice either.
However there are certain things that warrant (In my opinion) supporting the local merchant. For instance my mountain bike, I have a Specialized dealer three blocks from my house and he knows the product, he knows me and he stocks parts. If I need a tube, I walk in and get it. I get a nice appreciative conversation, look at some cool new widgets and go home. If I am feeling ultra lazy, I'll drop the bike off, have it fixed and tuned up and come back next week.
If I opt for plan B, I drive 6 blocks to walmart, park 4 blocks away, go in and find the tube myself, get my feet stepped on by out of control kids running around the bike area. Try to find someone to ask a question? HAH. Get frustrated, go screw around with the self check out line, cuss at the computo register, grumpy cashier comes over and repeats process. Return home look at bike, it's two hours later and I have other crap to go do. Saved $1.33.
Point being, Every Guzzi dealer out there is a small independent local merchant. And every time someone wants to outsource their parts at Napa or Wal-Mart or the bearing house, what ever, less and less profit is being made by that local merchant that is your link to parts and service. Thus, it is not worth his floor space to handle the product. I see this played out on every forum that I read. And I read many more of them than I post on. The dealer is usually the last place people reference when discussing parts. I'm not talking about buying parts just from my shop, I'm talking about from your closest Guzzi shop. Make them your first call, not your last.
If you want to see more dealers, it has to be worth their while.
My rant.
Curtis, I really do appreciate the thoughtful way that you advanced your point without shaming the author of the quoted passage (me!). But since I was the fellow who made the comment, I just wanted to go on record to say that I do understand the importance of supporting local dealers and that I intend to put my money where my mouth is.
In fairness, though, I was just looking for an o-ring. A single o-ring. That is just about as ubiquitous an item as you can find. I never really even thought of it as being a "motorcycle-specific" item. In any event, I'm pretty sure everyone would "lose" money (or valuable time) when the purchase and sale transaction concerns a single o-ring. It's a bit like writing a cheque for $0.02...
Anyway, that is the context in which I made that comment.
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I'm not talking about buying parts just from my shop, I'm talking about from your closest Guzzi shop. Make them your first call, not your last.
But,
I have often been led to believe by the shop that dealing in small parts is a money drain on them. They have told me to mail order stuff on a number of occasions. Also understand that I have directed a number of people to my local dealers to keep the local business going. And on a couple of large dollar items, that they gave me a deep discount on, I verified that they were good with those discounts, because I prefer for them to stay in business, then for me to save a few $. But they say they are good. So I take their discount, and I buy online parts, at their recommendation. Basically, they make most of their money on new bike sales, and tires, so I have been told. Parts are a hassle.
There is also the issue of being able to get some parts online in a few days, versus the local dealer needing to go through the Piaggio warehouse, and taking three months. In those cases, the three months often can't be tolerated.
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I'd love to support a local dealer. At one time, the sole Guzzi dealer in the area was a well-known shop not too far north of Coors Field -- about 30 miles from me. When I worked in Denver (and commuted on the T) I went in there a couple of times with a list of parts, to be told that they wouldn't stock parts for a bike that old. Not even a clutch cable. So I'm a loyal customer at Harper's etc.
There's a newer, smaller shop in Fort Collins, with some new Guzzis in stock. 35 miles north. I may try them, but frankly I don't expect to hear that they have parts I need, other than tires, tubes and plugs.
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We had an old multi line dealer in Tulsa that had everything in stock for MG and BMW going back to the '60s . Really handy , sad day when they shut down .
Dusty
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Lucky me. I have two Moto Guzzi dealers within a short ride. The well-established GP Motorcycles in San Diego - and the BMW dealer in Escondido has recently started to carry MG.
I love to drop in at the local dealers, buy a few things, and leave a little drool on the new bikes... and I use them for any service I can't do myself (which is rare).
But Harpers and MG Cycle are my closest dealers. They're on my phone and on my computer. The definition of local is changing. With so few Moto Guzzis out there, it makes sense for a few companies to specialize on the brand and try to be "the everything store" for the brand. No local dealer can afford to keep all parts for all bikes in stock (especially the older models) - too much money on the shelves.
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I have supported Harpers, MG Cycle, Moto Intl, and MPH - all fine folks. I just bought an Aprilia from my closest guzzi dealer. However- the very closest shop- with a long reputation for working on BMW & Guzzi hosed me to the point where I took him to court...and won.
People are people. There are plenty of greedy, ig'nant people out there. The whole retail thing is a two way street. If I get treated like I'm the one who owes the shop a living- I take my business elsewhere.
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Curtis, I just noticed that you surepticiously edited my original comment by removing the reference to an "o-ring". My earlier post in this thread emphasized the importance of context. Do you care to comment on why you felt compelled to edit that context out of the original quote without saying that you did so?
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Promoting the brand can also increase demand and get people into showrooms. Buyers of new bikes buy other stuff.
It is rare to see a motorcycle ad on TV but then the big brands already have name recognition, someone wants a motorcycle, what do they think of? Almost guaranteed it ain't Moto Guzzi.
In this day and age when the kids down the street throw up 30 second TV ads why can't MG do something novel like advertise? I bet most new riders buying a Harley aren't reading Harley ads in motorcycle magazines, they already know the brand and their friends take them to the dealer.
MG can't figure out that relying on some halfassed writeup in some motorcycle mag where the MG is an also ran doesn't drive sales?
If someone were to ask you for a few words that describe MG what would you say? Quite a few of us would say fun. Heard MG say that lately other than when preaching to the choir?
One TV ad. Just one, showing people having real fun with a MG as the focus and interest would follow. More bikes sold, more demand for stuff. More demand for stuff, more money for dealers.
The first time I told someone I was going to buy a Moto Guzzi their words were, " yeah, but the maintenance". The only people that can change the perception of what a Moto Guzzi is is Moto Guzzi. If the idea is to keep with the exclusive privilege thing of owning one then the rest of the answer is right there as to why there aren't many dealers. Dealers need to sell bikes and it doesn't matter about much else, no bike sales no parts sales no customers.
Boutiques are for flowers, wallflowers.
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After re-reading all the comments, I did a little research and if I go to the dealer as suggested I'd pay $2.20 for a $.30 o-ring. If you can't see what's wrong here I'm not the guy to 'splain it.
Paul B. :boozing:
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I'd love to support a local dealer. At one time, the sole Guzzi dealer in the area was a well-known shop not too far north of Coors Field -- about 30 miles from me. When I worked in Denver (and commuted on the T) I went in there a couple of times with a list of parts, to be told that they wouldn't stock parts for a bike that old. Not even a clutch cable. So I'm a loyal customer at Harper's etc.
There's a newer, smaller shop in Fort Collins, with some new Guzzis in stock. 35 miles north. I may try them, but frankly I don't expect to hear that they have parts I need, other than tires, tubes and plugs.
I've been there. I asked if I could look over a new guzzi (forget which one). They said sure, there's one in the back and I was welcome to go check it out. If I had any questions, just ask.
The "back" comprised poorly-lit, shoulder-to-shoulder and nose-to-tail rows of bikes with no way to get to anything inside the perimeter without moving all the bikes to that point. There was no point in even attempting to identify the guzzi in the mix. They didn't even have a t-shirt my size.
To the original topic -- One of the attractions of the Tonti guzzi to me is that there's not a lot about it that ties me to a dealer or shop of any type. With a little resourcefulness I can be geographically isolated from the dealer network and survive quite well for most things.
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Well, 'a local dealer'; there's a thought. I probably have more spare pieces for new model V7's than anyone within a thousand miles.
... and that's why: there's nobody within a thousand miles. I try to pre-plan my needs as much as possible which leaves me with the luxury of choosing my source based on principle, economics, or expediency. My first choice will always be based on principle. If a company is involved in the community I'll try to help keep them alive even when it costs me either dollars or time. My second choice is often based on expediency. "I need it NOW! and I don't care what it costs: my riding season is very short". Saving $100 pales compared to three weeks down-time. Finally, I will consider economics if the other factors are more or less equal.
I'm currently waiting on parts that appeared to be 'in-stock' on the website but have to be ordered by the vendor. That wait is physically killing the last riding opportunities I'll have until late March 2016 (if we have a warm spring). I could have cancelled the order and bought the ignition piece elsewhere; even possibly salvaged a week or two riding. But I chose to stick to my principals and support a supporter.
Unless you are incredibly short sighted and self absorbed you will see my position is best for everyone in the long run. A 'little pain/expense' shared around is bearable.
How do I know? I closed down a 116 year old specialty outdoor retail store because it wasn't sustainable to be an unpaid consultant to yuppies who wanted my knowledge so they could buy the right gear at MEC (or online). Ironically; MEC isn't much of an outdoor store these days; caters to a lot of yuppies and their kids. Probably in direct competition with Walm...
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Having only recently bought a Guzzi privately first thing I did was check Guzzi official website for dealers. I found 3 dealers all just under 50 miles away.
Only last week I find another dealer only just over 30 miles away not listed on Mg site. Just been there this morning, back home before 10:30am.
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After re-reading all the comments, I did a little research and if I go to the dealer as suggested I'd pay $2.20 for a $.30 o-ring. If you can't see what's wrong here I'm not the guy to 'splain it.
Paul B. :boozing:
I agree. The entity selling the o-ring for $.30 made money. Not as much $ but the customer was happy!
True, Walmart captured the market, why? Inventory AND price among other things.! If I had more money than I knew what to do with I wouldn't care, but I don't. The majority putting Walmart on the map were concerned with making their few hard earned dollars go further which helps explain the "falling prices" ad campaigns. Who is mad at Walmart?, I ask myself. The business owner who sold the overpriced o-ring? BTW Harbor Freight sells oring assortments in both metric and standard for little $.
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Heck my local Guzzi shop performed the 1st service on my 2007 Griso and used a NAPA oil filter and dog only knows what weight/brand oil. I could have somewhat understood if the 1st service was free but it was not. Hard to go back after that.
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Maybe if the local Guzzi shops had 25 checkout lanes but only staffed one of them, they would be as successful as Walmart.
But seriously...
I'm the opposite of many: I use the internet (like Revzilla etc) to do all my research, then I go to my local dealer to have them order the part or accessory.
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art :laugh:
Dusty
“Art washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.”
― Pablo Picasso
Replace "art" with "Guzzi" :cool:
carry on, all...
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I don't believe Curtis really answered the original question. There is an answer to why there are so few Moto Guzzi dealers. And another answer to the question "why people often avoid dealerships (any vehicle dealer)".
Curtis' rant actually raises the second question, but never fully addresses the first.
So, why are there so few Moto Guzzi dealers?
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You know, supporting your local business does not mean buying from them as long as they are cheaper than WalMart.
Or Amazon for that matter. Keep in mind that many of the larger businesses are using investor money to subsidize product with the direct intention of subverting your local merchant. Amazon in particular will sell items well below cost in order to get your business, and your information.
I think it may be too late, but I still prefer to spend considerably more to buy locally, even if I have to order something from a merchant rather than simply click.
Funny thing about Curtis's post- Harper and MG get all my Guzzi business because my dealer never has the parts.
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I don't believe Curtis really answered the original question. There is an answer to why there are so few Moto Guzzi dealers. And another answer to the question "why people often avoid dealerships (any vehicle dealer)".
Curtis' rant actually raises the second question, but never fully addresses the first.
So, why are there so few Moto Guzzi dealers?
It's simple. Volume. Guzzi makes a relatively limited number of bikes a year, of which the North American market gets a small (10?) percentage of. How many dealers can be supported by less than 1000 bikes/year total?
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My local dealer is Seattle Moto International, so I am very fortunate. Even so, they are a very small, unassuming shop, and I worry about them staying in business. I simply would not have rolled the dice on guzzi, if I did not have confidence in a dealer I could at least tow a bike to within a few hours. I don't have the time or money right now for project bikes. I ride newer models and have services done at the dealer on the recommended schedule. My motorcycle is no different than my car to me in that I expect to be able to go out and have it start anytime. It is transportation that I rely on. Now that I am in the fold, I have been won over. I would probably risk riding a guzzi without a local dealer now, but I wouldn't ever have known that without trusting a dealer first.
I'm curious how you guys feel about the small independent shop that specializes. There used to be a guy in Albuquerque that specialized in old British bikes. He was old school and used to set timing with a stethoscope. He hated Japanese bikes, but he worked on them to fund his parts bin for the Nortons, and Triumphs he loved so dearly. I took my old '78 Kawasaki KZ750 to him a couple of times after I had screwed something up myself. He would scowl, but he couldn't bring himself not to give full treatment to any bike he bothered to work on. He made that Kawi purr like a kitten each time. When I had a wheel out of true after get bumped by a car, he re-laced the spokes by hand and and welded a new bracket for my old speedo because he knew my bike was the only transportation I had at the time.
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I'm curious how you guys feel about the small independent shop that specializes. There used to be a guy in Albuquerque that specialized in old British bikes. He was old school and used to set timing with a stethoscope.
I like shops like that. I don't know of a Guzzi one in San Diego, but there must be... I used to take my Husqvarna to Ron Bishop (he did something like 40 consecutive Baja 1000s). He was kind of crusty and his shop was crowded with all kinds of interesting stuff. But underneath it all he was a great guy, he knew his stuff (all that race experience), and I always trusted his advice. He had a passion for Husqvarna and KTM. I miss him.
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I agree. The entity selling the o-ring for $.30 made money. Not as much $ but the customer was happy!
True, Walmart captured the market, why? Inventory AND price among other things.! If I had more money than I knew what to do with I wouldn't care, but I don't. The majority putting Walmart on the map were concerned with making their few hard earned dollars go further which helps explain the "falling prices" ad campaigns. Who is mad at Walmart?, I ask myself. The business owner who sold the overpriced o-ring? BTW Harbor Freight sells oring assortments in both metric and standard for little $.
Preface: I don't have buckets of money (other than my penny jar) and I live in the 'far north' where the cost of living is higher than in urban regions. My belief is: money is useful but it isn't central to my worth.
The points you highlight are the real middle ground for the majority of working people in developed countries. But I think there are flaws inherent in the philosophy. In large part, the success of 'box' stores is based on cost saving labour practices. The very ones that create the conditions for you having to squeeze every dollar and the same ones that move production offshore which leads to further weakening of your buying power. The 'supply price' part of the equations built on volume in theory but is as often built on threats and bullying by the large chains; "we'll pay$x for the o-ring ... or we dump the entire account." Saving yourself a dollar at the cashier is possibly costing you a little piece of your community.
The crux is: we, as a culture, have turned the concept of money from a tool into a deity. We are willing to sacrifice our community and our neighbour in pursuit of an idea which has evolved from the tangible (I'll trade you this piece of gold for that iron sword) to the intangible ('corn futures have taken a hit on Wall Street today').
Therefore: I trade my cash for your future because I belief your future is linked closer to my future than you imagine.
~rant over ~ :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
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Funny thing about Curtis's post- Harper and MG get all my Guzzi business because my dealer never has the parts.
I do the same with the addition of Moto International to your list.
Oddly enough Harpers like all online retailers actually enable you not to support your local dealer. Fancy internet sites that offer 24/7 point and click shopping with easy checkout and quick shipping to my doorstep make it nice and easy.
I was looking for a rim strip a couple months ago. Stopped into the local Honda shop and they wanted $7.50 for one. I handed it back to him and said no thanks. MC Superstore has the same thing for $1.25. I also bought a tire machine and order tires online for steep discounts compared to what local shops charge I easily save $150 per set of tires changes compared to local rates.
I guess we're all part of the problem
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Most recently, I needed a new front tire so I did some research and got my best price (delivered). Then, I called a local motorcycle dealer (no Guzzi dealers within a couple of hours from me) and told him how much I could buy the tire for, gave him their website link to the tire for verification and asked for a price match. They charge $15 to mount a new tire (you bring the wheel to them) if they sell you the tire and $25 if you buy the tire elsewhere. After all was said and done, his price for the tire (mounted) was only $6 more than I could buy it for online and have this dealer mount it so I said, "close enough and I bought the tire from them. Their initial price for this tire was around $40 higher (before adding tax and mounting. I always attempt to give the local guys the business before buying something like this and some dealers tell you to piss off and want no part of it and others (like this one) understand that if they're going to survive, there's a big world out there (the internet) and they need to be competitive. They don't have to match or beat an internet price but they need to come close and I'd rather give them the business. The internet is here to stay and those who adapt will have a good chance of surviving and those who don't are likely to fail.
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Most recently, I needed a new front tire so I did some research and got my best price (delivered). Then, I called a local motorcycle dealer (no Guzzi dealers within a couple of hours from me) and told him how much I could buy the tire for, gave him their website link to the tire for verification and asked for a price match. They charge $15 to mount a new tire (you bring the wheel to them) if they sell you the tire and $25 if you buy the tire elsewhere. After all was said and done, his price for the tire (mounted) was only $6 more than I could buy it for online and have this dealer mount it so I said, "close enough and I bought the tire from them. Their initial price for this tire was around $40 higher (before adding tax and mounting. I always attempt to give the local guys the business before buying something like this and some dealers tell you to piss off and want no part of it and others (like this one) understand that if they're going to survive, there's a big world out there (the internet) and they need to be competitive. They don't have to match or beat an internet price but they need to come close and I'd rather give them the business. The internet is here to stay and those who adapt will have a good chance of surviving and those who don't are likely to fail.
The rub is "if" they will come close. Shops around here are in their own world and they obviously get folks to pay the prices. I got burned on a tire change one time. I came home and bought a tire machine form an online retailer and started rolling my own. If the local shops charged realistic prices I'd still be doing business with them. The added benefit is I get my tires changed when I want to. No making appointments or dropping off one day and picking up another. Since January I have changed no less than 50 tires for myself and friends. All money sales shops could have had if there prices were reasonable.
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I used to own motorcycle tire changing equipment but I'm at an age and have enough health problems to the point where I have no interest in doing anything with tires except removing & re-installing the wheel. I sold my tire equipment several years ago and don't ride enough each year to bother with owning any more tire changing equipment. If I rode more, I would "roll my own" again.
Like you said, "if they come close" and some won't. In the case of tires, if they won't match or come close, I'll just buy the tire and pay the extra $10 to mount it before I get hosed.
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Are all Guzzi dealers listed on the official Guzzi WebSite?
E.g.
http://uk.motoguzzi.it/motoguzzi/UK/en/dealer.html
Don't see my nearest dealer which is in Loughborough
Would not be a big deal if I lived in Loughborough.
30 minutes drive each way closer than any listed dealer.
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As far as I know, there is no "official' dealer in Christchurch. Went to the place that used to be a dealer for a clutch cable. Wanted over $100NZ for it, and it had to come from Italy. Contacted my usual supplier, Motokiwi up in Waiheke Island. Pete emailed the price (just over half of what the former dealer wanted), I emailed back and confirmed and asked for the bank account number, and the part arrived the next day and even before his email did! With service like that, what more could a man want. :thumb:
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Are all Guzzi dealers listed on the official Guzzi WebSite?
E.g. http://uk.motoguzzi.it/motoguzzi/UK/en/dealer.html
The US site gets updated (as far as the dealer list is concerned) within about 30-60 days in my experience; I'm not sure how current the EU site is.
As an interesting aside, even though I live in a major US city, it's less distance from Paris to the factory in Mandello del Lario than it is from me to my nearest dealer :rolleyes:
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I have no problem with paying a bit extra at the local dealer, but when they want $75 for the stock air filter, and 2-3 weeks to get it from New York because they will only stock valve cover gaskets for the Guzzi's, I'm gonna order online. And it's usually Harper's. I got the air filter in question to my door in 5 days, for $40 Canadian all in....
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Decided to get a new full face helmet. Guzzi dealer wasn't an option, so went to a local Honda dealer. Not many customers in the store. Some of the staff standing around talking. Their price was about $50 more than the Internet. Ok. Tried helmets on from the displays until I decided which one I wanted. Staff still talking and having fun. Tried to get their attention. They said they'd be over in a minute and kept talking. I finally walked out , came home and ordered via the Internet.
Will support the Guzzi dealer as long as their prices and service seem reasonable.
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I made the 2 hour drive to the nearest Moto Guzzi dealer once. He took one look at my Eldorado and said "We can't help you, nice bike though". He didn't ask what I needed? I called them couple weeks ago and asked if they had a 2015 Eldorado that I could take for a test drive. They said they haven't got one in yet. I've gotten more parts from the local Harley Davidson shop than I have any where else. As much as I hate their bikes I do give them credit for having a good dealer network. But then if you sell that many bikes per year you'd better have a lot of places to get them fixed.
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Q) How does one make a small fortune selling Moto Guzzi?
A) Start with a large one.
That's how it was explained to me once.
Tom
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Interesting....As mentioned ,Harper's ask to you to buy from your local dealer but he has an online store... that could take business from your local dealer... :huh:
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Much of the discussion has been premised on the assumption that dealers are unable to compete on price. Some posters have said that they would buy from their dealer even when the cost is greater, while others have noted that there are circumstances in which they would buy a less expensive product elsewhere.
However, the impetus for Curtis' original post was a comment I made in another thread: "My kingdom for an o-ring!" In that thread, Curtis asked why I would not go to my local Moto Guzzi dealer to purchase an o-ring. My reply was as follows:
"Yes, I suppose it's odd that I didn't. I would turn to the dealer if I had no luck elsewhere, but I thought my prospects would be better if I just went to an industrial o-ring supplier. I suppose I was afraid that the dealer wouldn't stock such a small item, and that their recourse would be to have an o-ring shipped from Italy!"
Curtis then launched this thread by purporting to quote me, but he did not indicate that he had surrepticiously edited my comment by deleting the reference to an o-ring.
Well, context is everything. If it was indeed my comment that spurred Curtis into action, then it should be known that, in fact, price never entered into the equation. It just never occurred to me that it would be likely that my local Moto Guzzi dealer would stock o-rings. I would be very surprised if they did. As for price, well I paid about $30.00 to have a bag of o-rings hot couriered to me so that I would be able to ride. It's not like I went to the industrial supplier because they're "cheaper", like Walmart...
The real issue is service, not price. I know this is a matter of personal choice, but when I have a Moto Guzzi issue, I'll go to my local, knowledgeable Moto Guzzi dealer. But when I have an o-ring issue? Well, is Curtis really arguing that Moto Guzzi dealers should stock o-rings? Is he implicitly suggesting that dealers should go out of business if they fail to stock these o-rings? Or is he arguing that I should suspend my riding season so that I can support my local dealer by giving them the opportunity to generate the revenue that will come from ordering, receiving and selling an o-ring? Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.
Finally, the most important element of "service" is trust. Earlier in this thread, I invited Curtis to comment on why he thought it would be appropriate to surreptitiously edit a comment attributed to another "anonymous" poster by eliminating key context. If he has done so somewhere, I've missed it.
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Interesting....As mentioned ,Harper's ask to you to buy from your local dealer but he has an online store... that could take business from your local dealer... :huh:
Curtis IS my local dealer. He's near KC, I'm near STL.
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Much of the discussion has been premised on the assumption that dealers are unable to compete on price. Some posters have said ..........
Nicely written! And all very reasonable.
John
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Interesting....As mentioned ,Harper's ask to you to buy from your local dealer but he has an online store... that could take business from your local dealer... :huh:
How so? If you local shop isn't selling MG motorcycles then that also affects his online store sales. A stagnant buyer population hurts all dealers, brick and mortar and online.
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How so? If you local shop isn't selling MG motorcycles then that also affects his online store sales. A stagnant buyer population hurts all dealers, brick and mortar and online.
I'm assuming the reference to a local dealer is also a Guzzi dealer.
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I'm assuming the reference to a local dealer is also a Guzzi dealer.
Correct.
The problem though is the lack of models of MGs people want to buy. We can say MG evolves and offers great designs until pigs fly. The market speaks and the fact is that the typical motorcycle buyer doesn't want what is being offered by MG. Then, without MG doing more than hosting a website and praying for an honorable mention in a cycle magazine wenhave what we have, a sparse dealership network.
It doesn't matter what we say, it only matters what customers buying new motorcycles say and they are saying that they don't by and large want what MG is selling.
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It doesn't matter what we say, it only matters what customers buying new motorcycles say and they are saying that they don't by and large want what MG is selling.
Or maybe they do, and they just don't know it.
Marketing and advertising and infrastructure are all very expensive, and you need a mother company willing to tolerate a minimum 5 year (heavily) negative bottom line to get the message out there. Doesn't happen very often in today's corporate environment.
John
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Or maybe they do, and they just don't know it.
Marketing and advertising and infrastructure are all very expensive, and you need a mother company willing to tolerate a minimum 5 year (heavily) negative bottom line to get the message out there. Doesn't happen very often in today's corporate environment.
John
Thousands of companies say otherwise. You hear this when a company doesn't execute or can't meet the demands of a market, somehow no one knows they need what the company is selling.
Yes, they know. MG isn't a startup and advertising pays off quickly if the product being sold appeals to those looking to buy. The guy selling the stupid "fix me stick" manages to buy ads, MG can't? I'm not trying to say anything other than not selling a lot of something when others do so is not an indicator that customers don't know what they need or want, it is an indicator that they do and you aren't selling it.
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Thousands of companies say otherwise. You hear this when a company doesn't execute or can't meet the demands of a market, somehow no one knows they need what the company is selling.
Yes, they know. MG isn't a startup and advertising pays off quickly if the product being sold appeals to those looking to buy. The guy selling the stupid "fix me stick" manages to buy ads, MG can't? I'm not trying to say anything other than not selling a lot of something when others do so is not an indicator that customers don't know what they need or want, it is an indicator that they do and you aren't selling it.
Or perhaps, based on the comments on brand knowledge and advertising, that the customers have an idea of what they want, and don't even know that the company has an offering of that kind. I can't count the times I've bumped into people who had heard of Moto Guzzi, but had no idea they made bikes in the style of the Norge or Stelvio. I really don't think MG has failed to build something that is reasonably attractive to a significant part of the market - but that more often, they have hidden their benefits beneath a bushel-basket.
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I can't count the times I've bumped into people who had heard of Moto Guzzi, but had no idea they made bikes in the style of the Norge or Stelvio.
I agree with that. I find that a majority of motorcycle types who know the name Moto Guzzi have the image of the early models in their heads, and consider all of them, new or old, to be slow, heavy, clunky, 4-speed motorcycles with tractor engines in them.
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Preface: I don't have buckets of money (other than my penny jar) and I live in the 'far north' where the cost of living is higher than in urban regions. My belief is: money is useful but it isn't central to my worth.
The points you highlight are the real middle ground for the majority of working people in developed countries. But I think there are flaws inherent in the philosophy. In large part, the success off 'box' stores is based on cost saving labour practices. The very ones that create the conditions for you having to squeeze every dollar and the same ones that move production offshore which leads to further weakening of your buying power. The 'supply price' part of the equations built on volume in theory but is as often built on threats and bullying by the large chains; "we'll pay$x for the o-ring ... or we dump the entire account." Saving yourself a dollar at the cashier is possibly costing you a little piece of your community.
The crux is: we, as a culture, have turned the concept of money from a tool into a deity. We are willing to sacrifice our community and our neighbour in pursuit of an idea which has evolved from the tangible (I'll trade you this piece of gold for that iron sword) to the intangible ('corn futures have taken a hit on Wall Street today').
Therefore: I trade my cash for your future because I belief your future is linked closer to my future than you imagine.
~rant over ~ :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu
Very well stated, I completely agree with Yuk.
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I also feel fortunate to be only two hours away from a terrific MG dealer. They have been super to deal with, most importantly they are there to fully support what they sell, no bs. They seem to have all the necessary service parts on hand for modern guzzis, and they have no problem shipping if you can't make the trip. A great bunch of people, and when they say they will call you back, they do,every time. I can highly recommend Seacoast Sport cycle,in Derry N.H. to anyone searching for a dealer who has there poo together. dave
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I also feel fortunate to be only two hours away from a terrific MG dealer. They have been super to deal with, most importantly they are there to fully support what they sell, no bs. They seem to have all the necessary service parts on hand for modern guzzis, and they have no problem shipping if you can't make the trip. A great bunch of people, and when they say they will call you back, they do,every time. I can highly recommend Seacoast Sport cycle,in Derry N.H. to anyone searching for a dealer who has there poo together. dave
:1:
A great shop all the way around! There was a well-traveled old Eldo they had just done the clutch on when I was there last Friday. It was nice to see a classic among all of the newer bikes.
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Curtis, I just noticed that you surepticiously edited my original comment by removing the reference to an "o-ring". My earlier post in this thread emphasized the importance of context. Do you care to comment on why you felt compelled to edit that context out of the original quote without saying that you did so?
Simply for the same reason as leaving out your name. The conversation was about an O-ring, easy to go back to original poster.
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From what I can tell, a good deal of the problem can be Piaggio being such a pill to deal with. I've heard of dealers dropping the mark because Piaggio was impossible to work with. Maybe the dealers had their own issues making the relationship rocky but it seems to be a common theme.
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Correct.
The problem though is the lack of models of MGs people want to buy. We can say MG evolves and offers great designs until pigs fly. The market speaks and the fact is that the typical motorcycle buyer doesn't want what is being offered by MG. Then, without MG doing more than hosting a website and praying for an honorable mention in a cycle magazine wenhave what we have, a sparse dealership network.
It doesn't matter what we say, it only matters what customers buying new motorcycles say and they are saying that they don't by and large want what MG is selling.
Why is that ??
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Why is that ??
Because Moto Guzzi is not selling a lifestyle, or a reality TV show, or a Tough Boy image - they're selling what they hope are competent road motorcycles.
But the vast majority of motorcycle buyer in the US are not looking to buy the most competent road motorcycle. They are looking to be Sons of Anarchy, or to be a Hell's Angel once they put their futures-trading software away for the weekend, or to be able to tell their friends that they saw 280 MPH on the speedometer on River Road last Saturday.
It's hard to sell into that sort of environment.
Lannis
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Brand awareness is also a huge problem for Guzzi.
Many people have never heard of the brand. I get that all the time. More people don't know the brand than know of it from the 1970s.
Increasing brand awareness is expensive, and in the end you still have an Italian exotic that many US customers are going to be scared of.
The second question I get asked about my Guzzis is always, "where's the closest dealer". They lose interest when I tell them it's in the next State, 120 miles away. US customers want dealers on every corner, and that is why Honda and Harley rule the roost. And for them, it's a snowball effect. They are able to grow because they are already big. They have name recognition. And, they have dealers in every little Podunk down in the USA.
I find that people who drive European cars are much more open to the idea of a Moto Guzzi than people who drive Honda/Toyota/Ford/GM. The European car owners are used to the bigger commitment required to own and maintain their machines.
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Because Moto Guzzi is not selling a lifestyle, or a reality TV show, or a Tough Boy image - they're selling what they hope are competent road motorcycles.
But the vast majority of motorcycle buyer in the US are not looking to buy the most competent road motorcycle. They are looking to be Sons of Anarchy, or to be a Hell's Angel once they put their futures-trading software away for the weekend, or to be able to tell their friends that they saw 280 MPH on the speedometer on River Road last Saturday.
It's hard to sell into that sort of environment.
Lannis
What you say is true...but some or many buy a Guzzi because of it's style. A practical buyer might buy one of many competent Japanese machines for less money...And what is a competent bike? A Harley ridden within it's limits is quite competent. Is a Guzzi competent? Yes, within the limits of a 550 pound shaft drive bike...
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What you say is true...but some or many buy a Guzzi because of it's style. A practical buyer might buy one of many competent Japanese machines for less money...And what is a competent bike? A Harley ridden within it's limits is quite competent. Is a Guzzi competent? Yes, within the limits of a 550 pound shaft drive bike...
But Guzzi dealers do not have bikini girl bike washes, free hamburgers, huge lifestyle (clothing) sections, poker runs, and dozens of hang-arounds on Saturdays.
People generally want to be part of something, and with lifestyle brands like Harley, the customers are buying more than a motorcycle. The motorcycle is just the price of admission into the lifestyle.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the Guzzi scene is much smaller and much more obscure. A person wanting to buy into a scene with their bike purchase will not buy a Guzzi. And, there's not much that Piaggio can do about that...
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Brand awareness is also a huge problem for Guzzi.
Many people have never heard of the brand. I get that all the time. More people don't know the brand than know of it from the 1970s.
Increasing brand awareness is expensive, and in the end you still have an Italian exotic that many US customers are going to be scared of.
The second question I get asked about my Guzzis is always, "where's the closest dealer". They lose interest when I tell them it's in the next State, 120 miles away. US customers want dealers on every corner, and that is why Honda and Harley rule the roost. And for them, it's a snowball effect. They are able to grow because they are already big. They have name recognition. And, they have dealers in every little Podunk down in the USA.
I find that people who drive European cars are much more open to the idea of a Moto Guzzi than people who drive Honda/Toyota/Ford/GM. The European car owners are used to the bigger commitment required to own and maintain their machines.
Riding the ferry across Bull Shoals a few years back when a gentleman in a Porsche made a beeline towards the Jackal . There were several HDs and there Japanese counterparts on the ferry , he paid no attention to them at all . He seemed to know it is Italian , and asked some serious questions about the brand .
Dusty
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In another thread a couple of months back we were talking about the strategic decisions made by BMW and Ducati, some 20 years ago or more, that led to their traction in the US market, while Guzzi snoozed. It is possible to regain lost momentum (Harley did it after the AMF debacle, and Triumph came back from the dead) but you don't do it without building a loyal dealer base and communicating with the public.
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But Guzzi dealers do not have bikini girl bike washes, free hamburgers, huge lifestyle (clothing) sections, poker runs, and dozens of hang-arounds on Saturdays.
My local dealer is also a BMW, Indian,etc. shop and they have free hamburgers on occasions along with dinner rides but it still has not helped that much in this location. They sold 22 Guzzi's last year and I don't know how they are doing this year but they may only be around for another year(with Guzzi) if things don't pick up for the brand.
Personally, I wouldn't bring my bike there for service because the head mechanic doesn't like Guzzi and basically tells anyone who asks and I probably know more about my bike then he does even with his "training" I don't need any parts for the Norge and any parts for the older bikes are ordered from the usual sources. When I finally get around to buying a new Guzzi, I will shop around for the best price, go back to the local dealer and see if they can match it and if not I'll just do what I did last time and fly or ride to pick up the bike.
I just don't think it is my responsibility to financially support a local dealer when the world has become competitive due to the internet. My thinking has changed about this when doing research for parts on other household projects and then going to a local dealer to be ripped off to the tune of 30% to 40%. I'll gladly pay a premium for a part be it Guzzi or whatever but not that much of a premium.
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They sold 22 Guzzi's last year and I don't know how they are doing this year but they may only be around for another year(with Guzzi) if things don't pick up for the brand.
Funny thing, 22 units sold makes them a top Guzzi dealer in the USA, but I'm sure it's just a drop in the bucket to the Indian and BMW sales.
I'd imagine the hot nature of Indian has caused them to think less and less of Guzzi. It's more work to be a Guzzi dealer. People are knocking down the doors to buy Scouts and Chiefs. And those customers probably never heard of Guzzi !!!
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After re-reading all the comments, I did a little research and if I go to the dealer as suggested I'd pay $2.20 for a $.30 o-ring. If you can't see what's wrong here I'm not the guy to 'splain it.
Paul B. :boozing:
As Google is your friend to find information, Amazon is your friend to find stuff. $14.73 for a 419 piece Metric O-ring set is hard to beat.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_6?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=o-ring+kit&sprefix=o-ring%2Caps%2C207
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I'd love to support a local dealer. At one time, the sole Guzzi dealer in the area was a well-known shop not too far north of Coors Field -- about 30 miles from me. When I worked in Denver (and commuted on the T) I went in there a couple of times with a list of parts, to be told that they wouldn't stock parts for a bike that old. Not even a clutch cable. So I'm a loyal customer at Harper's etc.
I work just blocks away from that dealer and bought a new V7C off their showroom floor a few years ago. When I came back a week later to take delivery and bring it home, the battery was flat, the tires had 22 psi, and the gas tank was 1/4 full. Did they earn my business? I ultimately sold the bike a year later because I had no faith in their desire or ability to provide fair, proper service to my bike, let alone provide warranty repairs or have a sufficient parts inventory.
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Funny thing, 22 units sold makes them a top Guzzi dealer in the USA, but I'm sure it's just a drop in the bucket to the Indian and BMW sales.
I'd imagine the hot nature of Indian has caused them to think less and less of Guzzi. It's more work to be a Guzzi dealer. People are knocking down the doors to buy Scouts and Chiefs. And those customers probably never heard of Guzzi !!!
They sold something like 65 BMW's but I have no idea about the Indians. And the previous MG dealer in town sold something like 25 units their first year and they weren't happy either with that number either and then they went out of business but that was mostly due to the economy collapsing and their Piaggio's scooter sales took a nose dive when the price of gas started to go down.
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'Guzzi did it...
My local dealer in central Mass., used to have Moto Guzzi. That was over 5 years ago.
I inquired as to why they stopped that part of the franchise?
His answer was that they (the dealership) could not stand dealing with Piaggio any longer. I guess they just ticked them off to the point where they just gave up. I recall him saying that random bikes would get delivered (forced into their inventory), un-announced. And I believe obtaining parts (timely) was a headache also.
So, they continue with BMW and Ducati. Also brought in KTM. And Indian, as a separate area.
And now my closest 2 places are over 70+ miles. One in RI, and one in Derry, NH. Seacoast in NH has been great. They'll pick up your bike in the Northeast for $25, and deliver it for $25, if you cannot dedicate a day or 2 for service. They claim they do this from NYCity to Maine...
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Stick, if you are in Worcester your closest dealer is probably Gill, and they are now Guzzi only as BMW decided they were no longer sufficiently modern to be a BMW dealer.
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Funny thing, 22 units sold makes them a top Guzzi dealer in the USA, but I'm sure it's just a drop in the bucket to the Indian and BMW sales.
I'd imagine the hot nature of Indian has caused them to think less and less of Guzzi. It's more work to be a Guzzi dealer. People are knocking down the doors to buy Scouts and Chiefs. And those customers probably never heard of Guzzi !!!
My buddy was a Guzzi dealer from the early 80's to the early 90's. He was the top seller for a couple of years East of the Mississippi and possibly the country moving 25+/- Guzzi's per year . Something's never change. A while back he found a box of his advertising plates that go under the license plate. I have them on a few of my bikes.
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Stick, if you are in Worcester your closest dealer is probably Gill, and they are now Guzzi only as BMW decided they were no longer sufficiently modern to be a BMW dealer.
They're about equidistant to Seacoast from the Worcester area. I've heard nothing but good things about AJ Cycles in Gill, but have never stopped by. Looks like they have a Verde Legnano in stock. I may have to pay them a visit for a look.
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This discussion is all over the place with lots of good points. But I had to think about the dealer who will pick up/deliver for $25.00
There's not way he's not getting killed at that price. How do you own a truck, trailer, insure it, pay your man, etc. for 25 bucks?
So, is this the guy that has to match internet pricing? Or do we pay him list (or close to it) so he can continue to provide a negative cost service? This is really an involved topic. I have no value judgement, good or bad, just adding to the conversation.
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Are dealership "co-ops" a thing? Like, different from a traditional small business, where several people are co-owners and people come in at different contribution levels in starting it up? Not a business person here, can ya tell. Wonder what it would take to do something like that... We desperately need a Guzzi+ dealer somewhere like Santa Rosa or Petaluma or something, Napa is too small and Fairfield is the wrong direction, Elk Grove fills that area.
Does anyone know what it takes in terms of legalities (zoning, licenses, permits, etc.) for a lease that a dealership would need? Super curious now...
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This discussion is all over the place with lots of good points. But I had to think about the dealer who will pick up/deliver for $25.00
There's not way he's not getting killed at that price. How do you own a truck, trailer, insure it, pay your man, etc. for 25 bucks?
So, is this the guy that has to match internet pricing? Or do we pay him list (or close to it) so he can continue to provide a negative cost service? This is really an involved topic. I have no value judgement, good or bad, just adding to the conversation.
Re: Seacoast, they have a big transit van that they fill with numerous bikes for each trip. They don't make a trip just for a single bike. This means you may have to wait several days, a week, or a bit longer before they come get your bike. Given the quality of service and trustworthiness they provide, the wait is well worth it, especially when work and/or weather make a ride there unfeasible.
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Are dealership "co-ops" a thing? Like, different from a traditional small business, where several people are co-owners and people come in at different contribution levels in starting it up? Not a business person here, can ya tell. Wonder what it would take to do something like that... We desperately need a Guzzi+ dealer somewhere like Santa Rosa or Petaluma or something, Napa is too small and Fairfield is the wrong direction, Elk Grove fills that area.
Does anyone know what it takes in terms of legalities (zoning, licenses, permits, etc.) for a lease that a dealership would need? Super curious now...
The ownership structure is mostly up to the participants - depending on the company's bylaws, it can behave like a co-op (though technically it is still an incorporated partnership) but it would be difficult to make it a co-op in the same way that REI and MEC (for example) operate. A retail operation has the opportunity to structure as a co-op because it is built as a collective buying agent for the co-op members; dealing with the liability, warranty support, licensing and other issues that a vehicle dealership faces makes a co-op something that can be emulated, but not duplicated.
In most jurisdictions that I know, setting up a vehicle dealership takes a minimum of six months and a pile of cash and credit. Vehicle sales are typically regulated at both the state and local (county and municipality) levels. You will need a location with appropriate zoning, a use-specific local business license and various permits to convert the location (if not already a vehicle dealership) to that purpose. You will need construction permits for any required renovations. At the state level, you will need a business license, articles of incorporation and all related business documents, and a sales tax permit. In most states, you will need DMV approval as a dealer and DMV authorization to issue temporary license placards. You may need DOT permitting to inspect vehicles for safety before resale. Your vehicle sales staff will all need to have criminal background checks and be licensed by the state, and in some areas by the county or municipality.
If you are taking on a franchise as a new product dealer (not a used vehicle only dealer), you then have a bunch of contracts to negotiate to obtain the dealer franchise for your area of choice. This may have geographic restrictions (no other dealer within xx miles and you are also not within xx miles of another), requirements for dealer presentation (floor plan, signage, exterior appearance), requirements for inventory (new vehicles, parts and supplies, clothing and accessories), requirements for training (sales staff, techs, parts staff). You will need to commit to move a certain number of units to establish pricing levels and if you're lucky, co-op advertising reimbursement.
You will need the senior investors or officers of the company to sign over their hearts, souls and first-born children to one or more banks or investment financiers to obtain what is called "flooring" - interest-only financing for all the vehicles you keep on the floor, so the previous owner (manufacturer/importer, or person you bought that used bike from) gets their money, and you have some time (30-120 days, usually) to sell the bike before you have to pay off the vehicle or move it into your pool of 'owned' assets (and make payments on the principal as well as the interest).
You will need those same people to sign various instruments to attempt to cover themselves, the business, and its staff from all the various ways the courts have found to make them liable for anything from a bad brake job to a butterfly sneeze.
Other than that, it's simple. :evil:
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I've heard a lot of good things about Seacoast.
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Yup it's true, Seacoast picked up my cali last fall and returned it about two weeks later. 50$ round trip in the big conversion van, it looked like it could carry around eight bikes. I think the drivers name was Kyle and he man handled that 800lb. cali like it was a mini bike. Never heard a bad word about Seacoast and I can understand why. I look forward to the couple times a summer I get to take the two hour ride there on a Saturday and drool on all the Italian splendor, Ducati, Aprilia, and of course Moto Guzzi. They have a first come first serve policy on Saturday and they open at 10 am. I usually try and be the first one there which means I leave at 5 am and get there at 7, and and it's great to hear all the duc's and v4's come roaring in. By 10 o clock there is usually around 20 bikes lined up for mostly scheduled services and tires and such and they bend over backwards to get them all in. Makes for a great day and free burgers and dogs at lunch. But above all else they are all a great bunch of people to deal with. They really don't care if your looking at a scooter or a super leggra, they will treat you as a valued customer. Pretty rare these day's. dave
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The ownership structure is mostly up to the participants - depending on the company's bylaws, it can behave like a co-op (though technically it is still an incorporated partnership) but it would be difficult to make it a co-op in the same way that REI and MEC (for example) operate. A retail operation has the opportunity to structure as a co-op because it is built as a collective buying agent for the co-op members; dealing with the liability, warranty support, licensing and other issues that a vehicle dealership faces makes a co-op something that can be emulated, but not duplicated.
In most jurisdictions that I know, setting up a vehicle dealership takes a minimum of six months and a pile of cash and credit. Vehicle sales are typically regulated at both the state and local (county and municipality) levels. You will need a location with appropriate zoning, a use-specific local business license and various permits to convert the location (if not already a vehicle dealership) to that purpose. You will need construction permits for any required renovations. At the state level, you will need a business license, articles of incorporation and all related business documents, and a sales tax permit. In most states, you will need DMV approval as a dealer and DMV authorization to issue temporary license placards. You may need DOT permitting to inspect vehicles for safety before resale. Your vehicle sales staff will all need to have criminal background checks and be licensed by the state, and in some areas by the county or municipality.
If you are taking on a franchise as a new product dealer (not a used vehicle only dealer), you then have a bunch of contracts to negotiate to obtain the dealer franchise for your area of choice. This may have geographic restrictions (no other dealer within xx miles and you are also not within xx miles of another), requirements for dealer presentation (floor plan, signage, exterior appearance), requirements for inventory (new vehicles, parts and supplies, clothing and accessories), requirements for training (sales staff, techs, parts staff). You will need to commit to move a certain number of units to establish pricing levels and if you're lucky, co-op advertising reimbursement.
You will need the senior investors or officers of the company to sign over their hearts, souls and first-born children to one or more banks or investment financiers to obtain what is called "flooring" - interest-only financing for all the vehicles you keep on the floor, so the previous owner (manufacturer/importer, or person you bought that used bike from) gets their money, and you have some time (30-120 days, usually) to sell the bike before you have to pay off the vehicle or move it into your pool of 'owned' assets (and make payments on the principal as well as the interest).
You will need those same people to sign various instruments to attempt to cover themselves, the business, and its staff from all the various ways the courts have found to make them liable for anything from a bad brake job to a butterfly sneeze.
Other than that, it's simple. :evil:
This is why I ask questions. Thank you for that epic post, TIL much stuff! Hmmmm, another thing I was thinking of was what it would take to have an existing, established dealership open another location, assuming all the location criteria you mentioned was met. Certainly, all regionally-specific stuff like licenses and permits and such will need to be re-acquired, but I'm wondering how much better a proposition that would be than swimming up that horrific stream you described there. Also, that's sort of the point of the "co-op" approach; even though there are more copies of contracts being signed and such, distributing the workload and risk across more people--specifically, the right people--might improve the experience in general. At least that's my theory, lel. :boxing:
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Not to mention that Gizzi is wanting to make a shipment of bikes to the Northeast dealers in the 3rd quarter. Not so good unless they will pick up the floor plan all winter. Sales season is almost completed by now with winter on the horizon.
There's a zillion things to being a dealer. I know and work with several but it's not my place to speak to some of the practices. Maybe the dealers here would care to chime in.
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Stick, if you are in Worcester your closest dealer is probably Gill, and they are now Guzzi only as BMW decided they were no longer sufficiently modern to be a BMW dealer.
Thanks for the tip. According to Google Maps, all 3 are 60+ miles from Northboro - I live on the West side of Nbro.
RE: Seacoast -- Last year, the price was $20 one way, and you do have to schedule ahead of time. They won't run "everyday" in your area. They just got a newer Mercedes van. The ol' Sprinter had over 250K mi on it. They actually phoned me, because I was potentially interested! Turned out it wasn't a bad price, either, but I got cold feet (plus there were a few issues w/ the rig).
I believe even the new one is set up for 4 bikes. So on a good day, you're delivering 4, and picking up 4. Still $200/day must still be a loss for them. The van is not inexpensive to buy/lease! It's a convenience they offer, to keep your business. My Stelvio made the round trip twice, while under warranty. Now, she's freed from that chain, and I can start playing with the NTX myself!
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And the most obvious answer to the original question........... ....there's almost NO money in it.
I'd be amazed if the #1 USA dealer moves 50 units this year and absolutely dumbfounded if it's 75 units.
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And the most obvious answer to the original question........... ....there's almost NO money in it.
BINGO !!!
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There is plenty of money in it. That isn't the problem.
The problem is not going after the money.
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There is plenty of money in it. That isn't the problem.
The problem is not going after the money.
Let's say the gross dealer margin on a new Piaggio product averages $1500 - whether its a Cali 1400 Touring or a V7Stone. And we won't even count flooring against that. Or sales commissions. That should help ensure my number is somewhat valid, but I'm betting (from experience) it's close. Any underestimate would be eaten by flooring (extended, on most Piaggio products), sales commissions (unless the owner is the manager is the sales staff), and so on.
If Moto Guzzi were to make 15,000 machines a year (they never have) and 10% of them came to the US, that means there's a total gross for dealers of $2.25 million. GROSS.
Divide that among, say, 50 dealers - an average of $45,000 per shop. That's less than $4,000 a month, less than a lot of middle class families live on (barely). From that, take rent/mortgage, power and other utilities, taxes, insurance, advertising, fuel and all the other myriad forms of overhead, and it's a hard thing to see enough pie.
Even if the margin were $2500 per machine (and it ain't), the numbers are still thin - $75,000 a dealer, $6250 a month. Run that back to the number of machines actually made, say an average of 10,000 a year, and even at the generous margin the numbers are meager.
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Let's say the gross dealer margin on a new Piaggio product averages $1500 - whether its a Cali 1400 Touring or a V7Stone. And we won't even count flooring against that. Or sales commissions. That should help ensure my number is somewhat valid, but I'm betting (from experience) it's close. Any underestimate would be eaten by flooring (extended, on most Piaggio products), sales commissions (unless the owner is the manager is the sales staff), and so on.
If Moto Guzzi were to make 15,000 machines a year (they never have) and 10% of them came to the US, that means there's a total gross for dealers of $2.25 million. GROSS.
Divide that among, say, 50 dealers - an average of $45,000 per shop. That's less than $4,000 a month, less than a lot of middle class families live on (barely). From that, take rent/mortgage, power and other utilities, taxes, insurance, advertising, fuel and all the other myriad forms of overhead, and it's a hard thing to see enough pie.
Even if the margin were $2500 per machine (and it ain't), the numbers are still thin - $75,000 a dealer, $6250 a month. Run that back to the number of machines actually made, say an average of 10,000 a year, and even at the generous margin the numbers are meager.
Which is why I love Ducati. Not that I want to own any of their bikes (well perhaps the GT 1000). There's just no way that Seacoast could provide the services that they do with just the Piaggio line, nevermind just with Guzzis.
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Let's say the gross dealer margin on a new Piaggio product averages $1500 - whether its a Cali 1400 Touring or a V7Stone. And we won't even count flooring against that. Or sales commissions. That should help ensure my number is somewhat valid, but I'm betting (from experience) it's close. Any underestimate would be eaten by flooring (extended, on most Piaggio products), sales commissions (unless the owner is the manager is the sales staff), and so on.
If Moto Guzzi were to make 15,000 machines a year (they never have) and 10% of them came to the US, that means there's a total gross for dealers of $2.25 million. GROSS.
Divide that among, say, 50 dealers - an average of $45,000 per shop. That's less than $4,000 a month, less than a lot of middle class families live on (barely). From that, take rent/mortgage, power and other utilities, taxes, insurance, advertising, fuel and all the other myriad forms of overhead, and it's a hard thing to see enough pie.
Even if the margin were $2500 per machine (and it ain't), the numbers are still thin - $75,000 a dealer, $6250 a month. Run that back to the number of machines actually made, say an average of 10,000 a year, and even at the generous margin the numbers are meager.
Dealers of hardware products, be they motorcycles, RVs, computers or marbles do not live on the dealer markup of the sales for that hardware. A sale of hardware is the entry into the sales of service and parts.
If you remove service or sales of parts, the dealer must either sell high volumes or exist as a labor of love or sell something else.
If for example, out of every 100 MG bikes sold, the dealer sees just a few back for service just why would that dealer want to bother? The same goes for parts. If the only time those MG owners walk in the store is because they need a warranty part installed, why bother.
There is no rocket science, watch what the best do and do what they do. That doesn't mean being cookie cutter, it means listening to customers, fixing stupid things that have existed for years that don't require redesigns of major components and making what more people want.
Either that or raise prices and sell a true world class series of bikes. People will buy them and considering the number of bikes MG sells, it could find enough to buy really high quality world class bikes. There are as many people willing to pay that as there are willing to buy current MG models.
That does mean world class though, not what they are selling now. The business model to do that successfully is there. But don't think something like startus interruptus and flat tappet eatitus can be passed off as an privilege to have.
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I tried to give my (at the time) local dealer $3000+ worth of parts business to get an older Guzzi back on the road. I went in with a list of parts and was told: "Piaggio has stopped supporting all the older Guzzi part numbers, we can maybe get 5% of what's on your list. Your best bet is Harper's or MG Cycle" I had them go ahead and see what they could order for me and they were right, they couldn't hardly get anything. So, my $$$'s were forced to the online marketplace by a decision Piaggio made and both Harper's and MGC got some of that business.
I realize supporting a 40 yr old motorcycle isn't going to be a huge money maker for the company but 90% of the parts I needed were available from either Harper's or MGC and they are both able to continue to source the older parts. Why can't the manufacturer continue to support their product? The infrastructure was/is already in place. All they needed to do was maintain the status quo. I'm sure it looked like a good decision on paper...
Sometimes it's not just the customer's lack of support of a dealership that makes the business fail. If the manufacturer makes poor decisions then, as others have noted in this thread, the customer loses confidence that the dealer will be able to support them either at all or at least in a timely manner and the dealer will become "plan B" over a local bearing house or hardware store for the simple things (nuts/bolts/o-rings/bearings/etc...). Once they realize that the pricing of an equivalent item is 25% of what the dealer is charging then it becomes an easier decision to make to skip the dealer.
Let's not forget, the decisions the manufacturer makes affects the retailers of their products as well. It's not always the customers fault...
Oh, and the dealer I originally went to...they are no longer in business.
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That is why there isn't a Harper's in every big city and they sell online. 40 year old bikes are just that and considered classics or special interest. The sport has to evolve and supporting old bikes is something best left to the few who can service the few who need parts for them.
That $3000 order is nothing, you were going to out them in yourself. The money is in service, it keeps the tech on the payroll.
The best MG could do is get their inventory for current model bikes available with a quick ship model and dump the old stuff, sell it off to some wholesaler and deal with people buying new bikes.
No manufacturer wants to have the noose of old product dangling around their necks. Its nice for the museum and history but they need to move on.
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I realize supporting a 40 yr old motorcycle isn't going to be a huge money maker for the company but 90% of the parts I needed were available from either Harper's or MGC and they are both able to continue to source the older parts. Why can't the manufacturer continue to support their product?
You would've gotten he same reaction from a Harley or Honda dealer, had you walked in with a parts list for a 40 year old motorcycle.
OEMs are in the business of selling new motorcycles and supporting them for about ten years.
Had you walked into a dealer who had been in the business for 40-years, he may have the parts in stock. But that's only because the parts have been languishing on his shelf for decades...
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The answer to the original question is not so simple. There are few Guzzi dealers because there are few Guzzi buyers because there is little general awareness among the motorcycling public about Guzzis because there are few Guzzis because there are few Guzzi dealers because there are few Guzzi buyers because...
I was a Moto Guzzi dealer in a large Midwest city for a couple of years (1998-2000) before I ran out of money and had to close down. I was a franchised dealer for Moto Guzzi, Triumph, Ducati, and Laverda. I constantly had people come into my shop riding Harleys or Japanese sportbikes, and look around and then leave, telling me they'd never heard of any of those brands. Other dealers for my brands within 150 miles or so also sold Japanese brands, including ATVs, so they carried my brands as a hobby, and would sell them at cost because they were supported by their Japanese bike and ATV sales. One dealer (pissed at Triumph and Guzzi for giving me a franchise) even told me to my face that he would do so until he put me out of business, then he dropped Triumph and Guzzi (or they dropped him; not sure which). He also refused to trade units with me if a customer wanted a different color, etc. than what I had, though all the other nearby dealers and we traded often.
Most dealers who sell Guzzis do so because they are enthusiasts like us, not because they are going to make a lot of money, because they won't. That goes for Aprilia, etc. too. And I was one of the top Guzzi dealers in the US at the time, though I sold fewer than a dozen units a year. Moto Guzzi USA (pre-Piaggio) liked us so well that they sometimes gave us free flooring on new units.
Regarding parts, when a dealer takes on any brand franchise, the company requires them to take on a certain "spare parts package," and that is determined by the company. A dealer can certainly add to that if he wants, but based on the experience of the company, that package will fit most of his needs and then he replenishes as stock is depleted. No dealer has the room or the foresight to carry every part a potential customer will need, no matter how many tea leaves he reads. My Parts Unlimited rep talked me into taking a box of spark plugs for Chinese scooters, claiming I'd sell them within six months to local kids and DUI scooter riders, and promising to take them back if I didn't. Six months later, he bought the whole box back.
We tried to cater to the owners of vintage bikes in the brands we carried, but other than spark plugs and points, we didn't carry a lot of other pieces. Again, what would we carry and for which models? We established a good rapport with specialists like Harper's, though, and when a vintage Guzzi came in, we'd order the parts from Harper's ourselves rather than tell the customer to do it. We wanted to be their local go-to Guzzi source.
I feel fortunate that I have a Guzzi dealer within 40 miles of me. He also sells Aprilia, Vespa, and Piaggio brands, but I suspect not many. I bought my new 2014 Stelvio just last month. He also has other 2014s of those brands left. His bread and butter lies in the fact that he's also a dealer for all four Japanese brands, plus Indian, Kymco, Victory, Polaris, and KTM. He's been paying floorplan on those 2014 bikes for over a year.
A previous poster alluded to the appeal of the "lifetstyle" aspect of Harley. I was just the opposite. My main bike from 2000 to 2014 was an Excelsior-Henderson, which Suzuki and Harley riders have also never heard of. I also briefly owned two Buells, a pair of BMWs, and two Triumphs during that time. I sold my last Excelsior-Henderson in late 2014 and bought a Harley Road King. I liked it but I didn't love it, so I traded it in on my Stelvio, which I do love. I do not fit the perceived "Harley lifestyle," whatever that is. I fit the Guzzi/Triumph/BMW/Aprilia/Ducati style better. But not many loyal Harley riders (or even Gold Wing riders) are going to switch to Guzzis. Most of the Harley faithful don't read Cycle World, Motorcyclist, or Rider, so they never see the Moto Guzzi road tests or new model intros. If Moto Guzzi ran ads in those magazines, they wouldn't see that either. They only read Harley-oriented magazines, if any at all.
There will never be very many Moto Guzzi dealers. There's not enough money in it and there's not enough brand awareness. Be happy we have the ones we have and give them as much business as you can if you want to keep them.
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:thumb:
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It really is simple. Not many people want a Guzzi. Yes, lack of dealers is a big part of it, but, a bigger part is not having the bike they want.
Cruiser types mainly want an HD or look alike. The newer Calis will fit those who want a cruiser but want to be different. Not many of those folks out there, and most of those will go to an Indian instead.
Sport bike types just don't see any performance in the Guzzi lineup. Aprilla maybe.
Sport touring types look at the Norge and see an ancient technology bike, not even cruise control. And costs as much or more than competition that outperform it.
ADV types look at the Stelvio and compare it favorably to the others. But, why pay for a Stelvio when a SuperTen is less and just as 'different'?
The V7 has come as the 'retro' bikes have made a comeback and is reasonably priced. It seems to be selling better than the others. Drawback is still that it is lower in power than similar sized bikes, many of which cost less.
Me? Would I buy a new Goose? Probably not. Why? My current bike is running fine and as long as it keeps running I don't need another one. If it 'blows up' then would I consider another Guzzi? Yes. New? Maybe, depending on if they upgrade the Norge or get a better midrange bike. Nothing in the current offerings would make me want to buy one.
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I haven't read all four pages of this thread but here's my .02. As far as parts go, barring tires, my Guzzi has needed so few over the course of it's 28 year life that purchasing at a dealer rather than on-line wouldn't keep anyone in business. It's service where I have to decide if paying someone to do a job I can do, and enjoy doing myself, is worth the cost. Especially when most of my experiences with service departments (auto and motorcycles) are less than satisfactory and I end up fixing it myself afterwards. Much less frustrating than going back to the same dealer, but I'll let them know that they failed at the task.
Now if there were a Guzzi dealership nearby, being the impulsive guy I am, I would go spend money there on gear, plugs, gizmos, etc, and maybe (probably) be swayed into trading the old horse in on a new one. Fact is, in a city of 1 million people, my most recent experience seeing a "new" Guzzi was probably two years ago when a green Griso passed me in town.
As an aside, on the topic of bicycles, my daughter's Felt needed a new crank arm. Since I have not invested in all the neat tools modern bikes need for a new threaded lower bracket, I took it to the shop I purchased it from. Super nice people and they put it on the stand and had it stripped in 5 minutes. The lower bracket/ring gear/crank arm cost me $60 and labor was $50. I didn't mind. I don't have the tools or stand. My Specialized Hard Rock needs a new cassette and chain, so I'll take it where I bought it and probably trade up my son's GT now that he's outgrown it.
Then there's the Ford dealership. 100% markup on parts keeps me far away from them. I flushed the trans and did a filter R/R two weeks ago and bought the pan gasket from them. $50. Same Motorcraft gasket on Ebay? $23 shipped. Filter? $48 vs. $20.
Back to Guzzi, if there were a dealer nearby I'd be a lot more likely to be on a newer model.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/eroman/Berliner.jpg)
TT
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My 1-cent on this topic (I need the other 1-cent for another topic). Moto Guzzi Dealers should unite and demand Moto Guzzi to push some advertisement in this US. A TV commercial during some prime time TV should help. Most middle-age and younger people don't even know the brand, some older gearhead gents know the brand (at least around here) because in the 70's and 80's some Guzzi dealerships also sold All-State, Vespa, Lambretta, John Deer, and some also Harleys, so anyone going in for a tractor or Harley service checkup would at least be exposed to the brand.
What does Moto Guzzi do for US dealers today? Nothing from what I can tell... so someone (as a group of dealers I think) needs to tell the Marketing Team at Moto Guzzi how it is - they may appreciate the feedback and kick in the butt.
Good luck to all.
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Moto Guzzi - Going out of business since 1921!
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I believe I've read all the posts in this thread, but can't recall anyone stating the obvious, simple answer to Mr Harper's question:
There are few Guzzi dealers because of lack of commitment on Guzzi's side. They reap what they sow.
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Originally, I started this thread because I hear this type of "I'll try my dealer when there is no other option" sentiment all too often. Those of us that wake up every morning to do our best to help the motorcycle populous hate to hear that the knowledge we have attained over the years is useless to our customer unless it is the last resort. The statement was not directed at me so I was not personally offended. But it"s that hardware store mentality to maintain a fantastic piece of machinery that drives me nuts.
However, screaming about something I can"t change does little for my sanity, so I threw that post out there for a little venting yes, but also to listen to what people would actually have to say. Yes I was pointing a finger at the consumer for not supporting local dealers, but I am also asking why that is. And some fantastic answers / responses.
Yes, we are a local dealer and also have a online store. But I actually do quite often refer people back to their dealer if at all possible. It is also understood that there are few dealers with real Guzzi knowledge, making it hard to get service from them. I have suggested many times in the past that Piaggio actually have some sort of parts training for a dealer. It"s harder that anything trying to look up accessories, or trace superceded parts.
Cheese brought up the oil filter issue. The dealer should have taken care of it, and Guzzi should have made it good with him. I am imagining that he would not do that due to the difficulty that most face with returning anything to Piaggio. Not your problem and sorry that guy dumped on you.
Wayne brought up the misunderstood statement about small parts being a drain on business. I don't see it that way. If you need a $2 part to get your $10k bike moving than dag nabbit, you need the part. It costs me more to tell you to go get it elsewhere. Unless I know of an easy fix, like a turn signal bulb at the auto parts store and it's Friday and you need to ride this weekend, etc...
Many of you have reported negative dealer experiences. I know that happens, and do not blame anyone for not going back to where they got that kind of service. Truthfully, I would be lying if I said every transaction here went without problems. But, using a Napa filter on a 600 mile service? I would have gone nuclear.
Now, I also know that o-rings are generally o-rings, bolts are bolts, and there are many interchangeable parts. There have been occasions when people have priced a simple piece of hardware that was some ludicrous price and we acknowledged that common sense dictated a different source. Such as the inner plug on the Norge which is an NGK PMR8B is available from a different industry source for half the price. So we use those so we can save the customer money. But a dealer just doesn't have time to pre-source every part.
Many of you took the topic to a whole different direction than originally intended with input from ITSec and a couple of others. And that was quite interesting reading other thoughts on that side.
A lot realize that Piaggio can be very difficult to deal with, and yes they can be at times. As of now I have a very good relationship with the folks there in parts and accessories and service. As they acknowledge that Harpers is their largest Guzzi parts account. They actually do listen if I bring up real problems.
But I will however pass along this story I was told over last weekend. A gentleman that was at one of the vintage races that I put on last Sunday, has been a Powersports Product Rep for nearly 40 years. He was hired on at Piaggio to handle a certain area which was not my area. I mentioned that my Rep had not been in my shop for nearly the previous seven years before he left to go elsewhere. I was told that my rep said "Oh hell, don't ever go to the dealers, they hate us. Just ride your demo, enjoy life, promote the product to the public." Neither of those two gentlemen are in the employ of Piaggio any longer.
SO I guess over the last week I got real good answers from many surprise sources. I'll keep digesting all of it and see how we can make our service better for those that aren't lucky enough to have a good local dealer.
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I haven't read all the complaints on this but have known for a long time part of the problem of being a Guzzi dealer is you have to sell genuine MG parts at the price MG tells you to, which is high compared to other sources for the same item. So you dealers are between a rock and a hard place. This is what encourages buyers to find other sources to spend their $ at for X parts. If MG lowered part prices you dealers would get more business.
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There are Moto Guzzi dealerships out there? I have wanted a Goose for many years but couldn't see myself owning one until I reached a level of competence. Competence in my own abilities as a mechanic. Competence in my internet abilities to order my own parts off the internet. And my own belief in myself that I am competent enough to handle or deal with whatever happens on the road. I bought a 13 year old bike because it was supposed to be dependable once sorted. A Moto Guzzi dealership never entered the equasion. I have no idea where the nearest dealership to me is. I don't really care if the brand survives or not. I'm here, the bikes here, and I'm happy. There are enough parts out there to keep me going and I can find them. What more do you need?