Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: sdhow on October 23, 2015, 01:35:25 PM
-
So the Marina del Rey, CA dealer just added Guzzi to his offerings (has been a Vespa dealer for some time now). He's buying "knock off" leather jackets (not bad quality) out of Pakistan for about $150, then sells them in the factory dealership and on eBay for $299:
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/mcd/5281499937.html
I wonder if Piaggio is aware...
-
So, what puts them in the "knock off" category? Surely you don't expect them to me made at the Moto Guzzi factory. Even some OEM Moto Guzzi parts are made in far-flung places such as Germany, Viet Nam, Taiwan, etc. I'd like to know where I can buy one for "about $150".
-
And just how do we know these are knockoffs?
-
So, what puts them in the "knock off" category? Surely you don't expect them to me made at the Moto Guzzi factory. Even some OEM Moto Guzzi parts are made in far-flung places such as Germany, Viet Nam, Taiwan, etc. I'd like to know where I can buy one for "about $150".
Not a licensed product. That's what.
-
Does Moto guzzi sell jackets? If not, how can they be counterfeit?
Just because some "other" aftermarket jacket manufacturer begins selling them does not make them counterfeit.
-
How do we know they aren't licensed?
-
Not a licensed product. That's what.
Yeah , this may be a problem if Piaggio decides to make it one . Do we know for sure if the dealer has an agreement or not with the mothership ?
Dusty
-
I was going to mention that this type of post, in as much as it lacks evidence of wrong doing, would run afoul of Rule 1. of this board.
buuuuuuut since a Moderator was quick to jump on the bandwagon of the potentially libelous post, I suppose pointing it out would do little good.
-
I was going to mention that this type of post, in as much as it lacks evidence of wrong doing, would run afoul of Rule 1. of this board.
buuuuuuut since a Moderator was quick to jump on the bandwagon of the potentially libelous post, I suppose pointing it out would do little good.
Actually both mods :rolleyes: Although yes , you are correct , maybe we should gather more facts before accusing this dealer of wrongdoing :thumb:
Dusty
-
So where's the outrage?
That they are perceived to be "conterfeit" or the mark-up?
It's a wonderfully convenient common source of anger to ascribe the difference between what a dealer pays and what a dealer receives as undo, dare I say it... is it not in essence a naughty word.... Profit.
Our man pays A and asks B and in between, this item has to help pay fixed site costs of rent or a mortgage, insurance, utilities, employee fiscal encumbrances, outrageous regulatory costs in licensing and compliance blackmail monies and "food on the table" for the man who dares run a small business these days.
So what is it; Where the jackets come from, perceived profit, assumption that he's gettin' over on the consumer or MG?...
Todd.
-
So where's the outrage?
That they are perceived to be "conterfeit" or the mark-up?
It's a wonderfully convenient common source of anger to ascribe the difference between what a dealer pays and what a dealer receives as undo, dare I say it... is it not in essence a naughty word.... Profit.
Our man pays A and asks B and in between, this item has to help pay fixed site costs of rent or a mortgage, insurance, utilities, employee fiscal encumbrances, outrageous regulatory costs in licensing and compliance blackmail monies and "food on the table" for the man who dares run a small business these days.
So what is it; Where the jackets come from, perceived profit, assumption that he's gettin' over on the consumer or MG?...
Todd.
Guzzi dealer profit?
-
Nice looking jacket but too short waisted for my taste. If the leather is good quality, adequate thickness and stitched well I don't care where it came from. It's not like it's being passed off as a Bates, Aerostich or Belstaff and who would know if the logo is correct or from what period.
Wonder if it bleeds red when rained upon?
Tobit
-
Prolly wouldn't look too bad after a season or two...
-
Yes, those are counterfeit as well as God awful looking. Could they have placed the logo on there more times? yuk!
-
Again, how do we KNOW they are counterfeit?
-
Has Guzzi actually licensed or claimed anything in this channel?
Heck, the Indian apparel is made in Vietnam, so how can you tell?
-
Does an official Motoguzzi badge exist.
I'll buy one of those and stitch it on my own jacket.
-
A 'counterfeit' would be something that mimics the real item that is represented and sold as the real item. What real item does this jacket mimic? Is it being sold in place of a genuine article while claiming to be that item? I have articles of clothing personalized to a dozen or more MG dealers. Are they all counterfeits? Counterfeits of what?
I'm a bit appalled that the moderators nuked the cager rager topic but are actively participating in this dealer bashing. Has moderation become a matter of the moderator's personal taste in topics, or are the rules still in effect? :angry:
-
Here's one straight from Pakistan.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mens-Black-Moto-Guzzi-white-Logo-Motorcycle-Racing-Biker-Leather-Jacket-XS-6XL-/321888607551?hash=item4af20e5d3f:g:tS8AAOSwBahVTgXV
Tobit
-
What's the point of this thread? Sounds like an enterprising Guzzi dealer to me.
Listen, the bottom line with Guzzi in the US, and probably elsewhere, is there's a dire lack of marketing and merchandising. They know this, and they've actually started to get some gear out and available, but it's not like they're making a major effort to get their stuff to the masses. Hence Guzzi customers and dealers have been making their own versions of shirts, hats, etc for years and selling them at Rallies and Shops.
Our own shop approached Guzzi a couple years ago and asked if it would be ok to print our own shirts and their response was basically, "Knock yourselves out."
So again...what's your point?
-
Agreed, Guzzi could care less. If they wanted to make U.S. dealers happy they would have all kinds of merch -- in U.S. sizes! Sniff, they don't care! They just don't!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ByUv6kl4EWo/ViqfK175ZMI/AAAAAAAAA7M/aLUNnoi-nP8/w1278-h655-no/untouchable.jpg)
-
There might be and I stress might be a trademark/ copyright infringement but the jacket itself, if not already being made by MG would not be counterfeit.
Just because something isn't made in Italy doesn't mean it can't be genuine MG or properly licensed product.
MG can take of itself.
Before accusing a dealer is doing this, better be darn sure or showing face around there might be complicated and word travels. Could find yourself persona non grata at a bunch of dealers.
-
I would hope MG is more interested in solving the Stelvio Swing arm failures than worrying about "counterfeit" jackets, but, perhaps not.
-
Once again, three failures out of thousands. I would hope Guzzi is or has been proactive on this, and is making sure their in not a systematic issue at hand, until we learn otherwise, I think we can do without the Sky is falling scare.
As to genuine guzzi jackets and apparel, they can be seen here at this pdf of the official Guzzi Asecory catalog. And yes the jackets shown at the start of this thread are illegal boot legs.
http://www.af1racing.com/store/ProdImages/st3/mgaccy.pdf
-
This is the first time I've noticed someone running "MOTO" and "GUZZI" together, with no space. I don't like it.
-
Uhhhhh. This thread has more fake outrage going than MSNBC and Fox combined. :thumb:
-
My favorite leather jacket is from India/Pakistan. It's an X-PERT and has all the features I've ever wanted in a leather jacket. It's excellent quality and the price is very good. I've only seen one other person with one in my travels, so it's not a common, boring design, either.
http://www.eagleleather.com/Men%27s-Utility-Pocket-Jacket-3035/
The price here is about $100 more than when I bought mine a zillion years ago. Sales bring it down to near the zillion-y-o price. The utility pocket is what makes it work for me. :thumb:
-
Is this the jacket?
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/men-s-racing-moto-guzzi-leather-jacket-new-4a31_zpspsxmxpaq.jpg)
-
Heck I can't even get an order placed for REAL Guzzi accessories - my dealer says the accessory rep is non responsive- bad part number on hard bags? How could Guzzi be worried about someone else selling Guzzi stuff? They can't sell it themselves!
-
At least he is a Moto Guzzi Dealer and not some guys selling parts and doing nothing to support the marque.
-
Yes, those are counterfeit as well as God awful looking.
It looks good on you though!
(http://mypartyshirt.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/j/u/judge-smails-caddyshack-hat.jpg)
-
At least he is a Moto Guzzi Dealer and not some guys selling parts and doing nothing to support the marque.
My gripe is not with the dealer. They are trying. It's the US office that seems to be the issue. At least according to one dealer. So my point is, Guzzi corporate cannot seem to even provide ordering information for their legitimate accessories......
-
Quality. It isn't as much where it is built as much as it is who is monitoring the process.
For example: my leathers are off the shelf theoretically top-end stuff from a long established German manufacturer.
The gloves, made in Germany, fit like gloves and wear like iron. The two piece touring suit that I believed was made to Held standards was sewn in a country north west of India under Held inspection. The leather is supple, the sewing is good but for a thousand dollars I'd expect the fittings (buckle eyelets specifically) to have Held together longer (pun intended).
Their (EU mfg.) gloves I'd buy over and over. The suit... I should have spent my coins with Langlitz.
-
If this post started out telling us what MG says about their policy, then I'd believe it.
(http://wildguzzi.com/forum/Smileys/default/Beating_A_Dead_Horse_by_livius.gif)
-
And where I come from, 100% is a normal dealer mark-up. I don't see an issue here.
-
There might be and I stress might be a trademark/ copyright infringement but the jacket itself, if not already being made by MG would not be counterfeit.
Just because something isn't made in Italy doesn't mean it can't be genuine MG or properly licensed product.
MG can take of itself.
Before accusing a dealer is doing this, better be darn sure or showing face around there might be complicated and word travels. Could find yourself persona non grata at a bunch of dealers.
Copyright has a certain lifespan. After that anyone can use the Moto Guzzi name. MG have been around for decades now so I doubt there is still a copyright infringement, unless this jacket is closely comparable to a current factory jacket for sale. Looking at this jacket, I doubt that very much.
-
I believe it's unlicensed use of a legally registered trademark, not copyright infringement, but that's semantics.
-
I still haven't seen an answer to the qestion of how do we KNOW these are bogus?
-
I still haven't seen an answer to the qestion of how do we KNOW these are bogus?
If they are not listed in any of the dealer literature/catalogs etc. then they are most certainly bogus.
And none of the dealers in this thread have stepped in to say they think they are licensed products.
So the odds are good they are not.
-
So, I tart up my plain black jacket with some patches and logos. Is it now counterfeit? Not if it does not mimic exactly an offering from a -fill in the blank- manufacturer. Life is short, ride far.
-
So, Guzzi owns the rights to their brand logos. No brainer. And, yes, copyrights have to be re-registered after a period of time. Trademarks do not. Most companies use the trademark criteria since that covers a much broader ground.
An individual can do anything they want with those logos. They can print them, apply to their bike, clothes, etc, etc.
Once you SELL them then you have to follow the rules. If you buy 100 embroidered logos from MG then you can apply them to anything and then sell that item, as long as you do not call the item an MG item. Hanging it on the shelf does not do that. Putting up a display that says "authentic MG jackets" (or any similar language that would indicate it was a licensed MG product) would be a violation.
And, you can violate all the rules you want as long as the parent company does not protest. And, if they have a history of not protesting such violations, you can use that as 'protection' from lawsuit as well. Protecting a trademark/copyright is a difficult and time consuming process.
Any of the corporate lawyers can correct me if they so desire. We've been through this with our business so I can just scratch the surface of such law.
-
I still haven't seen an answer to the qestion of how do we KNOW these are bogus?
Because I have two eyes. And because I'm not an argumentative old curmudgeon. Anyone who has been around this marque long enough has seen these counterfeit all over the Internet. Unfortunately Guzzi and now Piaggio don't do much to enforce brand licensing.
I'll bet my moderators ban hammer that the jacket shown above is not a licensed Moto Guzzi product.
-
So, Guzzi owns the rights to their brand logos. No brainer. And, yes, copyrights have to be re-registered after a period of time. Trademarks do not. Most companies use the trademark criteria since that covers a much broader ground.
An individual can do anything they want with those logos. They can print them, apply to their bike, clothes, etc, etc.
Once you SELL them then you have to follow the rules. If you buy 100 embroidered logos from MG then you can apply them to anything and then sell that item, as long as you do not call the item an MG item. Hanging it on the shelf does not do that. Putting up a display that says "authentic MG jackets" (or any similar language that would indicate it was a licensed MG product) would be a violation.
And, you can violate all the rules you want as long as the parent company does not protest. And, if they have a history of not protesting such violations, you can use that as 'protection' from lawsuit as well. Protecting a trademark/copyright is a difficult and time consuming process.
Any of the corporate lawyers can correct me if they so desire. We've been through this with our business so I can just scratch the surface of such law.
I'm not a corporate lawyer but you are correct
-
As long as we're going for "the look", we may want to consider the following:
http://www.sears.com/seg-men-s-leather-vest-size-large/p-SPM7703383726?prdNo=6&blockNo=6&blockType=G6
Update: here are better pics:
http://www.sears.com/closeoutzone-genuine-leather-biker-vest-42-patches-snaps/p-0000000000000002287300000000000011699002P?sid=IMx20120601x002000-MPClothingShoesJewelry-activeusersFBX
-
Copyright has a certain lifespan. After that anyone can use the Moto Guzzi name. MG have been around for decades now so I doubt there is still a copyright infringement, unless this jacket is closely comparable to a current factory jacket for sale. Looking at this jacket, I doubt that very much.
not true. HD has sued and won many of copyright infringements.
-
Harley and Indian both vigorously pursue anyone selling unlicensed products. And most people bemoan the fact, especially those who have sold Indian motorcycle parts for many years.
-
As long as we're going for "the look", we may want to consider the following:
http://www.sears.com/seg-men-s-leather-vest-size-large/p-SPM7703383726?prdNo=6&blockNo=6&blockType=G6
Did you notice the patch in the upper right of the right blurry photo? (upper left to the wearer)
-
Copyright has a certain lifespan. After that anyone can use the Moto Guzzi name. MG have been around for decades now so I doubt there is still a copyright infringement, unless this jacket is closely comparable to a current factory jacket for sale. Looking at this jacket, I doubt that very much.
Yeah, I heard Harley had close down its legal department because its trademark and licensing had run out. Haha!
-
If Moto Guzzi had anything similar AND they actually cared then it would seem that all the T shirt printers would have been in big trouble long long ago much less this jacket. Nice looking jacket at a reasonable price, what does anybody care what MG does?.
A couple of years ago there was a Chinese guy that copied our T shirt logo and was selling Harper's T shirts on Ebay. I wasn't happy about it but it would have been ridiculously expensive to initiate an international lawsuit for copyright infringement over a T shirt.
The better way was that I contacted that person and told him that if he was the type of person that would steal another persons logo the least he could do is do it right and put our phone number on them. It worked and he did. Free advertising, No legal bills or hassle, Problem solved.
Like I said, at least he is a Guzzi dealer and trying to help the marque's image and not some jerk parting out Guzzi's on ebay and taking bikes out of circulation.
-
Yeah, I heard Harley had close down its legal department because its trademark and licensing had run out. Haha!
My nephew the HD salesman almost exclusively wears HD branded clothing . A few years back he was sans Harley for a few months , which prompted me to ask if this was going to require an entire new wardrobe :evil:
Dusty
-
If Moto Guzzi had anything similar AND they actually cared then it would seem that all the T shirt printers would have been in big trouble long long ago much less this jacket. Nice looking jacket at a reasonable price, what does anybody care what MG does?.
A couple of years ago there was a Chinese guy that copied our T shirt logo and was selling Harper's T shirts on Ebay. I wasn't happy about it but it would have been ridiculously expensive to initiate an international lawsuit for copyright infringement over a T shirt.
The better way was that I contacted that person and told him that if he was the type of person that would steal another persons logo the least he could do is do it right and put our phone number on them. It worked and he did. Free advertising, No legal bills or hassle, Problem solved.
Like I said, at least he is a Guzzi dealer and trying to help the marque's image and not some jerk parting out Guzzi's on ebay and taking bikes out of circulation.
:1:
Now I'm not trying to say anything about anybody, but I swear sometimes, sometimes I say, it seems like, I dunno, maybe we just sorta kinda sorta occasionally, well rarely perhaps, occurring less to more frequently vice-versa, here and there some of us get upset about well, nothing. :grin:
-
:1:
Now I'm not trying to say anything about anybody, but I swear sometimes, sometimes I say, it seems like, I dunno, maybe we just sorta kinda sorta occasionally, well rarely perhaps, occurring less to more frequently vice-versa, here and there some of us get upset about well, nothing. :grin:
:1: :huh: :1: :huh: :1: :huh:
Lots of wisdom here folks :bow:
Dusty
-
The better way was that I contacted that person and told him that if he was the type of person that would steal another persons logo the least he could do is do it right and put our phone number on them. It worked and he did. Free advertising, No legal bills or hassle, Problem solved.
That's hilarious! Good thinking.
-
not true. HD has sued and won many of copyright infringements.
Copyrights do have limited lifespans, but, they can be re-registered fairly easily.
-
Oh my goodness! Surely this is the beginning of the end of our beloved Moto Guzzi! How will they survive in Mandello? Also, I'm pretty sure the sky is falling! (http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/shit/bird-pooping.gif)
-
Winter boredom setting in early this year? :wink:
-
Because I have two eyes. And because I'm not an argumentative old curmudgeon. Anyone who has been around this marque long enough has seen these counterfeit all over the Internet. Unfortunately Guzzi and now Piaggio don't do much to enforce brand licensing.
I'll bet my moderators ban hammer that the jacket shown above is not a licensed Moto Guzzi product.
So you admit you don't know. Not arguing but stating fact.
-
Copyrights do have limited lifespans, but, they can be re-registered fairly easily.
If you don't protect your copywriter, after knowing others are infringing, it makes the copyright rather worthless.
Like leaving your bike parked in some high traffic area with the key in the ignition while you go on vacation. Someone else should worry about it?
-
If you don't protect your copywriter, after knowing others are infringing, it makes the copyright rather worthless.
Like leaving your bike parked in some high traffic area with the key in the ignition while you go on vacation. Someone else should worry about it?
It is free advertising and unless your anal like Harley Davidson(who makes more $ on their clothing than MC sales) you let it slide. :popcorn:
-
Winter boredom setting in early this year? :wink:
Blame it on Super El Nino.
Dave
Galveston
-
Blame it on Super El Nino.
Up here, El Niño makes for more winter riding, not less.
-
You ride a Moto Guzzi? We have a jacket just for you!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic047/straight%20jacket_zpsrlqnbuxd.jpg)
:grin:
-
A link to the European offers from Moto Guzzi (here to the British website for your convenience): http://uk.motoguzzi.it/motoguzzi/UK/en/accessoriElifestyle/lifestyle.html?model=CASUAL&typology=JACKETS . I up to now have only allowed myself to spend my money for a genuine Moto Guzzi baseball cap. But some of the stuff is really nice. But pricey.
-
Did you notice the patch in the upper right of the right blurry photo? (upper left to the wearer)
That's too funny. They are unknowingly promoting the screen name of a late Guzzi forum member.
-
If the quality is decent, it is not a copy of a factory offering and not directly competing with a licensed product - free advertising. No harm, no foul.
Just a very expensive bumper sticker.
Todd.
-
I just bought a leather jacket In Mandelo del Lario. The ones at the factory and the dealer were made in Pakistan.
-
I bought one of those E-bay Pakistani via Canada jackets in 2007. ( not the flashy ones shown) All in all the quality is great, especially for the price. My only gripes are that the collar is a little large and the wrist closures are snap only, no zippers. If you like your gloves under the sleeves then you are in business. The leather quality is really good . Buy from the seller directly so you can give him your measurements. I can not buy off the rack due to my height so this is a great option.