Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: rocker59 on November 18, 2015, 12:09:01 PM
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Wow...
So I just got an email from my local Indian dealer. $8999 MSRP for the new "entry-level" Scout 60.
1000cc / 61ci version of the existing Scout. How can they sell 'em that cheap ??
Quite a statement that they want to sell some bikes !!!
http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/scout-sixty-thunder-black
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2015/11/article/2016-indian-scout-sixty-first-look/
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/first-look-2016-indian-scout-sixty-budget-cruiser-motorcyclist-magazine
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Like the 883 Sportster that HD loses money on ... :evil: Probably an example of modern mass production techniques .
Dusty
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Like the 883 Sportster that HD loses money on ... :evil: Probably an example of modern mass production techniques .
Dusty
You're being facetious right? Cause even the DEALERs are reportedly making a margin of around $1700 in the 883 these days.
No way the MoCo would take it in the shorts and leave them that much margin.
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You're being facetious right? Cause even the DEALERs are reportedly making a margin of around $1700 in the 883 these days.
No way the MoCo would take it in the shorts and leave them that much margin.
Uh Kev , considering that you were involved in the discussion re HD losing money on "entry" level Sportsters , kinda surprised you don't get this :shocked:
Dusty
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Good thing this Scout has such a small gas tank, otherwise I'd have to road test 1, even tho the last thing I need is another MC! We do have a local Indian dealer now.
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Another nail in the 55 hp V9 coffin.
M
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Raise the seat and move the pegs back. Please.
Yes. Seat up 4 to 5 inches. Pegs back 12 to 18 inches. 2 more gallons of gas.
I've been wondering for a long time if one of these vintage BMW seats could be made to fit...
(http://www.w6rec.com/duane/bmw/seats/strap1.jpg)
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Another nail in the 55 hp V9 coffin.
M
Maybe , personally the Scout leaves me a bit cold . Sure it is a fine machine , but I prefer any iteration of the V9 .
Dusty
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Yes. Seat up 4 to 5 inches. Pegs back 12 to 18 inches. 2 more gallons of gas.
I've been wondering for a long time if one of these vintage BMW seats could be made to fit...
(http://www.w6rec.com/duane/bmw/seats/strap1.jpg)
Don't post that on a BMW site , there will be pitch forks and torches involved :grin:
Dusty
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Another nail in the 55 hp V9 coffin.
M
d00d. Hipsters and bikers don't really cross-shop.
The disaffected HD customers that Indian is pulling in are not looking at Triumph Bonnevilles and Guzzi V7s/V9s.
They may pass on a Honda Shadow or V-Star in favor of a Scout, but those folks aren't cross-shopping Bonnies and V7s, either.
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Uh Kev , considering that you were involved in the discussion re HD losing money on "entry" level Sportsters , kinda surprised you don't get this :shocked:
Dusty
I sorta remember the discussion, but don't remember your participation...
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Raise the seat and move the pegs back. Please.
http://www.indianmotorcycles.net/threads/scout-1920-solo-saddle-seat-riding-impressions.9385/
The seating position completely changes. You sit much higher, and it puts you in a position that's more "standard" than the cruiser type position of the stock set-up. With the stock bars rolled slightly up and the reduced reach foot controls it'll sit you more like an old Triumph or Honda CB. Taller guys will also feel more room to stretch.
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Yes. Seat up 4 to 5 inches. Pegs back 12 to 18 inches. 2 more gallons of gas.
ditto
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I sorta remember the discussion, but don't remember your participation...
Good grief man , I am the old dude here , no excuse for you :grin:
Dusty
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Nice looking and probably a nice performer but with a 3.3 gallon tank, usable 2.8 gallon would be a killer. I complain about the fuel capacity on my Cali 1400T, can't imagine having to refuel every 70 or so miles.
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Nice looking and probably a nice performer but with a 3.3 gallon tank, usable 2.8 gallon would be a killer. I complain about the fuel capacity on my Cali 1400T, can't imagine having to refuel every 70 or so miles.
I can! I've owned two Sportsters with 2.25 gallon tanks. Upgraded one to 3.25, and would've gone to 4.5 had it been available at the time..
The hotrod 1974 model got between 35 and 40 mpg. Stopping for fuel was VERY often.
The 1994 model 883 returned 55 mpg, so not at bad. But still, walking at just over 100 miles wasn't fun.
Those experiences may have fueled my obsession with having as large a fuel capacity as possible. And wanting 200 miles range out of my motorcycles.
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Nice looking and probably a nice performer but with a 3.3 gallon tank, usable 2.8 gallon would be a killer. I complain about the fuel capacity on my Cali 1400T, can't imagine having to refuel every 70 or so miles.
THOUGH I've seen reports as low as 35 mpg, I see a lot more in the 40-45 range.
Call it 3 gallons and 40 mpg, that's 120 miles range. So looking for fuel every 100 or so.
But sounds like it can be stretched a little bit.
And on the Scout 60, the lower hp could/should mean slightly better economy no?
You could be closing in on a range of 150 with 50 mpg.
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I could make a raised seat for that bike-I do this for many V7's now-as could any good seat maker.
Seats and screens-two things that benefit from the custom touch.
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If I could just get over that huge butt ugly radiator :rolleyes:
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If I could just get over that huge butt ugly radiator :rolleyes:
Have you seen one in person yet?
As opposed to photographs (many of which are taken from a crouch, almost street level view) the radiator does disappear quite a bit in person.
And I say this as a person who generally doesn't like water-cooled bikes on principle.
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Raise the seat and move the pegs back. Please.
THIS:
http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/shop/accessories/solo-saddle-seat/pid-2880905-05 (http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/shop/accessories/solo-saddle-seat/pid-2880905-05)
(http://www.indianmotorcycles.net/attachments/20150830_101002-jpg.20185/)
Plus the reduced reach pegs, and maybe different handlebars should make it have reasonably standard ergos.
A posted on the ADVRider thread for this bike said that this seat is 4-5 inches higher than the stock one. It looks good too.
I'd love to get a test ride on a bike so equipped, as I really like the Scout, but, hated the ergos when I rode it.
EDIT: I see Kev M stole my thunder (that'll teach me to post w/o reading the entire thread). To my credit, I sent him the info earlier in the day :kiss:.
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Indian sells 3 different height seats for them. If you go to that web site 1st posted here you can see all the accessories available.
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EDIT: I see Kev M stole my thunder (that'll teach me to post w/o reading the entire thread). To my credit, I sent him the info earlier in the day :kiss:.
And woke me up with it ya bastid!
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I sat on a standard Scout last Saturday. Did not like the geometry at all. Passed on a test ride. Faces on sales guy just fell flat. How to shift and brake when my legs are in front of me, and not under me? Totally foreign seating. Too bad as otherwise it is a very fine machine, and now has the ABS.
Now then the Royal Enfields....hmmm... .
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New Scout 60. Very interesting. I do believe they are going after Harley and 883 Sportster with this one. The 1139 (1200) Scout (100hp) I believe is focused more toward the 1200 Sportster at a $10,990 price. Although my wife riding Guzzis for over 40 years opted for the new Scout 1200 this past year and is very happy with it. 10,000 miles on it now with one 6,000 mile cross country trip. Reason for going to the Scout was several actually. First was the low 25" seat height. She has some hip and leg issues that makes it uncomfortable on the 30" guzzi. She actually likes the feet forward position, but did opt for the reduced reach controls and handlebars that moved everything back a bit. She likes the"look" and performance. The 3.3 gallon gas tank really isn't that much of a issue on this bike. She regularly averages 55+ mpg at 70-80 mph speeds and has ran 150 miles between fuel stops. average fuel stops are around 120 miles. A 3 gallon fuel up on reserve did not see it hiccup or run out. She can out accelerate my 2014 Cali 1400. She likes the seat and don't complain on 500-600 mile days. We also have a 2014 V7 Special, but she choses the Scout over it, mainly because of saddle height. The water cooling is a plus here in the desert of Arizona where we ride in triple digit heat during the summer. Indian is building some fine motorcycles and with the backing of Polaris Industries I believe have a good future. Indian gave us a 5 year full coverage extended warrantee because of my Veteran status which was a nice perk along with $500 credit toward accessories. 10,000 mile service intervals is about twice most motorcycles. I'm staying on my Guzzis, but I won't divorce or chastise my wife for riding the Indian brand.
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And it's probably crowding 600 pounds with fuel ?
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And it's probably crowding 600 pounds with fuel ?
From a review: "Soaking wet and ready to ride, the Scout weighs in at 558 lbs"
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/reviews/a6339/5-things-i-learned-riding-the-2015-indian-scout/
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They'll sell a boatload, I think.
You can move controls around We too did a lot of riding on our Scouts (met the Thibodeaus at the National) and 120-130 is when we saw the fuel light. Not an issue for us.
My question-if someone is looking at a V9 Bobber or Roamer, and a Scout is at this price (albeit slightly down on power to the full-fat version), which one will they buy?
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They'll sell a boatload, I think.
You can move controls around We too did a lot of riding on our Scouts (met the Thibodeaus at the National) and 120-130 is when we saw the fuel light. Not an issue for us.
My question-if someone is looking at a V9 Bobber or Roamer, and a Scout is at this price (albeit slightly down on power to the full-fat version), which one will they buy?
Has the pricing for the V9 series been announced?
I'm going to guess they're higher than the Scout 60.
As far as which one they'll buy? Good question. They're different enough that the decision may come down to preferred style, though, Indian likely have a better dealer network depending on geographic location.
Smart move on Indian's part. I think that the Scout 60 will sell very well.
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The real reason for the Scout 60
www.indianmotorcycl es.net/threads/roland-sands-super-hooligan-scout-sixty-11676/
New flat trackers for the Super Hooligan flat track event and next year's GNC series
edit-can't make the link work. Sorry.
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Yep , some of us have been predicting this for a year . Maybe we will see the HD/Indian dirt track wars start up again. Rollie Free would be happy :laugh:
Dusty
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If I was in the market for a new motorcycle, the Indian Scout 60 would be the one. Might have to test ride one in the Spring - I now have two dealers within 40 miles (Hagerstown and Winchester).
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Yep , some of us have been predicting this for a year . Maybe we will see the HD/Indian dirt track wars start up again. Rollie Free would be happy :laugh:
Dusty
Bring back the Wrecking Crew!
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scout 60 is aimed at entry level, first time buyers with a limited budget and to get in under the 1000cc insurance cap.. it is the same bike as the 1100cc scout but 3k cheaper.. this kind of marketing is to set the hook (hardley style) and get/keep you in the indian camp..
for the rest of you who already ride, and have bigger better machines, this is not meant for you (#move on) to push yor buttons. you have a ton of other brands, styles, configs to fit your specific addictions. float yor boat.
but for those who do, this is another engineering gem out of Polaris. water cooled, dohc, fi, belt drive, modulur alum chassis, etc.. my guess 60-80hp? ~550lb. big fatt front tire (my button). albeit is one fugly basturd. but so is yor dog. and you grew on you and you now love it endearingly.?
small tank? 3 gal should get you 150 miles down the road if you can somehow restrain your rite wrist and excercise some discipline.. oh, not this crowd?.. a buck fifty can buy you 3 hrs of backroad wandering. if yor skared of the boonies, just carry a gal can in yor saddlebag. this is not a tour bike.
its amazing how we tear apart any (new) machine that doesn't quite fit our specific idea of what an optimal bike should be and have, as if any/all machines should be bilt with ME in mind.. these machines are just machines.. either they work for you or they don't. we shouldn't waster our energy piss n moan how it missed the mark.. for the target its aimed at, its most likely hit the bulls eye.
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its amazing how we tear apart any (new) machine that doesn't quite fit our specific idea of what an optimal bike should be and have, as if any/all machines should be bilt with ME in mind.. these machines are just machines.. either they work for you or they don't. we shouldn't waster our energy piss n moan how it missed the mark.. for the target its aimed at, its most likely hit the bulls eye.
I don't see anyone tearing apart the Scout in this or any other thread. A few voiced concerns about the seat and fuel range, but that's it. <shrug>
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I don't see anyone tearing apart the Scout in this or any other thread. A few voiced concerns about the seat and fuel range, but that's it. <shrug>
Yeah , the new Polarindians have not been bashed nearly as much as the new V9 .
Dusty
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sorry, am mixing up my post. have read too many other 4ms where they take either this bike or another (new) offering apart for not being somebodies ideal design.. Injun is stretching its muscles and will make serious dent in hardleys niche world.. mite even cross over and get some jap/euro market as well.? poncho
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sorry, am mixing up my post. have read too many other 4ms where they take either this bike or another (new) offering apart for not being somebodies ideal design.. Injun is stretching its muscles and will make serious dent in hardleys niche world.. mite even cross over and get some jap/euro market as well.? poncho
There is no doubt that Indian is going to put a big dent in Japanse cruiser sales. They will also pick up plenty of HD sales.
They're coming on strong.
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Nephew the HD salesman related this . At a meeting put on by corporate MoCo types , they stressed the fact that PIV is building a high quality product , HD and its dealers could not be caught napping or there would be big trouble .
Dusty
Competition is a good thing. And, more choices make things better for motorcycle buyers.
It is also good to see an American manufacturer doing well.
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Hey Dusty, we were just talking about this:
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/1527481008176143172.jpg)
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I was just looking at these. Interesting bits, some of which are interesting because they look stock.
Rear suspension is longer-travel, and there's an idler/tension pulley. Foot controls moved back quite a ways too.
Bet they sound wild!
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I was just looking at these. Interesting bits, some of which are interesting because they look stock.
Rear suspension is longer-travel, and there's an idler/tension pulley. Foot controls moved back quite a ways too.
Bet they sound wild!
Those are concept bikes . More than likely any serious flat track racers will be framers , mono shock , adjustable steering head , adjustable swing arm pivot points , etc .
Dusty
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He's actually entering them in the Super Hooligan event. At least that's what he says.
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He's actually entering them in the Super Hooligan event. At least that's what he says.
Ahh , thanks :thumb:
Dusty
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I test rode a scout last year before i was actively shopping and ultimately ended up with my T3. But it was quite honestly an amazing machine. The egos were comfy. The thing picked up like nothing i had ever ridden. i pulled out of the dealer which was right off the highway and as I entered the on ramp i was already going 85-90 without even knowing it! It also had 6 gears which I loved especially coming from riding old Yamaha's for a few years. I wasn't in the market for a new bike at the time just curious and had a Friday afternoon free. I had actually went to the Harley dealer next door to try an Iron 883 and Nightster but was dismissed when they saw me pull up on my Yammi so I went next door and tried one of every Indian they had ready. If I had a garage and could afford it I would buy an Chief for touring and/or Scout for all my inner city needs. But as it happens when i unexpectantly started looking for a new bike after wrecking my Yammi this year, I opted for a Guzzi because I can build it to be my around town bike and do some long trips with the gas tank range and still have not spent as much on a new Indian. I am quite positive I will probably own an Indian in a few years when i finally get the house i want though.
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I had actually went to the Harley dealer next door to try an Iron 883 and Nightster but was dismissed when they saw me pull up on my Yammi so I went next door and tried one of every Indian they had ready.
I've never heard of a negative experience like that at a Harley shop. In fact, I've heard nothing but positive comments regarding Harley dealerships and customer service. Heck, I was just kicking tires at our local Harley shop, and was being offered test rides w/o even asking.
Recently, I was talking to a fellow who was riding a Harley trike due to medical problems that preclude riding a two wheeler any more. He hates how unstable it feels in turns. I asked if he considered a Can Am Spyder. He did, but, couldn't get a test ride. Harley? No problem. He dealer didn't have a trike, but, got one from another dealer just so he could test ride it. He ended up buying it.
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Kind of weird the HD dealer in town is also the Indian Dealer. They have all the massive bagger models on showroom floor. I've been back several times to see the Scout but no dice. When I ask they don't seem the least bit interested in getting some Scouts. "Do you know when the next shipments of Scouts will arrive? I would love to test one." They always reply "Nope, had some a while back, not sure if we will get some any time soon". Typical arrogant Harley dealer answer.
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I'm sure there are bad dealers, but I wager I've been to more Harley dealers than any of the people on here who tell stories of bad experiences.
I think YOUR attitude coming in can hello dictate what kind of experience you find more than not.
But yeah, once in a while there's a complete idiot.
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Nice looking and probably a nice performer but with a 3.3 gallon tank, usable 2.8 gallon would be a killer. I complain about the fuel capacity on my Cali 1400T, can't imagine having to refuel every 70 or so miles.
Made a trip to Ca. couple of weeks ago, 3 other bikes (K1600GT, FJR, 1290SA), for the first time in any ride I was the small tank. I went on reserve twice, both times at 200 miles. Took 5 gallons while the SA took 6 gallons. 4416 miles in 9 days, PCH, Big Sur, DV, all new to me.
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I just got back from riding it at the Long Beach Motorcycle show and was very impressed. Not my kind of bike but the motor seemed good and strong and the bike appears to be well thought out I liked it for what it is.
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I don't see anyone tearing apart the Scout in this or any other thread. A few voiced concerns about the seat and fuel range, but that's it. <shrug>
I'll tear it up.
I test rode the Scout this year. On the plus side the engine is super smooth and it has a lot of grunt.
On the downside it made my taint vibrate in many ways above 5000 rpm, none of them pleasant, and it has absolutely crap brakes which is a large sin on a bike with that much power.
That and it can't turn (It's resistant to turning because of the fork rake and it can't lean much) so it's just like most other american "performance vehicles" that are only good for a straight line.
The big block indians though... there's something I'd buy if I wanted a cruiser, and boy did I ever suddenly want a cruiser...
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I can lock my brakes. Steering lighter than almost any Guzzi.
Your taint..never mind
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overpriced as it will cost much $ to change the tank, seat, fenders, frame, suspension, wheels and exhaust system
and yes I did sit on one and it felt like a blinged out tractor
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I rented an Indian for 24 hours out of Denver two months ago and took it up in the mountains. I got up to 10,000 feet so I experienced what the bike is like with less power. So maybe my ride was a taste of what the smaller engined one is like.
It was ok. The great power I had felt in my Wisconsin test ride was noticeably absent, and with that went much of the attraction. The brakes are lacking and the bike doesn't turn well, as Doppleganger said. Also, the suspension was under-damped. I was stuck in a traffic jam going up the highway into the mountains and found that the seat got uncomfortably hot! The instrumentation and the control fittings seemed pretty basic and crude. On the Interstate racing back north to Denver to see my kid's kung fu event the bike was tolerably comfortable -- the upright position, without a windshield, was ok. I did nearly run out of gas sooner than expected, and had to find some in a panic.
My overall impression was of riding an older motorcycle that was in really nice shape. The things that make it a nostalgic choice also interfere with its capabilities. Though pleasant enough in its own way, I'd rather have been on my Griso (or my T3), by a large margin.
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From the literature:
...So you get a 25.3-inch seat height, modest running weight (claimed 542 pounds dry, just four more than the bigger Scout)...
Strange, isn't it? Four pounds heavier than the "bigger Scout".
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From the literature:
Strange, isn't it? Four pounds heavier than the "bigger Scout".
The engine is the same, just smaller holes in the cylinders. Sure the transmission has one less gear, so, that might be a little less weight.'' So, it doesn't surprise that that it isn't lighter, but found pounds heavier, that could be the difference in calibration between two scales.
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The engine is the same, just smaller holes in the cylinders. Sure the transmission has one less gear, so, that might be a little less weight.'' So, it doesn't surprise that that it isn't lighter, but found pounds heavier, that could be the difference in calibration between two scales.
Unless things have changed , the manufacturers don't actually weigh their bikes . The published weights are based on target weights provided by the engineers for each individual component . This is why published weights are almost always lighter than real world poundage . (Kiloage?)
Dusty
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From the literature: Strange, isn't it? Four pounds heavier than the "bigger Scout".
ballast, for keeping the ship upright.
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:grin: :grin:
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As for the negative reviews, I've owned or ridden the same bikes you guys have noted in your sigs. All I can say is meh, I'm unimpressed. It's all subjective. No need to present it like facts.
From the literature:
Strange, isn't it? Four pounds heavier than the "bigger Scout".
Interesting. If IIRC there's was a time when the Harley 883 and 1200 models were almost identical in motor and chassis and the 1200 was a few pounds lighter LITERALLY because the jugs had less metal thanks to the larger bores.
Or at least that's to what it was always attributed.
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I like the ballast idea better.. :evil: :smiley:
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Unless things have changed , the manufacturers don't actually weigh their bikes . The published weights are based on target weights provided by the engineers for each individual component . This is why published weights are almost always lighter than real world poundage . (Kiloage?)
Dusty
Actually this came up in another thread recently.
Over the last few years I've noticed more and more manufacturers quoting curb (kerb) weight or "wet" weight, not dry weight.
Might be that one legislating body required it and once they have to publish the data there's no reason trying to hide it.
I dunno, but I'm seeing more and more wet weights.
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Actually this came up in another thread recently.
Over the last few years I've noticed more and more manufacturers quoting curb (kerb) weight or "wet" weight, not dry weight.
Might be that one legislating body required it and once they have to publish the data there's no reason trying to hide it.
I dunno, but I'm seeing more and more wet weights.
My statement has nothing to do with dry/wet weight . The published weight is not accurate because it is
based on the combined target weights of every component , not the actual poundage of the complete vehicle .
In other words , if the vehicle uses 100 components , and the target weight of each component is 4 lbs , then
the published weight is 400 lbs . In reality , at least some of the components will weigh more 4 lbs . It is true that modern manufacturing techniques have reduced the difference .
Dusty
Edit , so the published dry weight and the published kerb weights are low by the same amount in a given vehicle .
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My statement has nothing to do with dry/wet weight . The published weight is not accurate because it is based on the combined target weights of every component , not the actual poundage of the complete vehicle . In other words , if the vehicle uses 100 components , and the target weight of each component is 4 lbs , then the published weight is 400 lbs . In reality , at least some of the components will weigh more 4 lbs . It is true that modern manufacturing techniques have reduced the difference .
Dusty
WHAT???
I've never heard that before.
I'm not entirely sure I believe that without further documentation.
Why in God's name would a manufacturer not weigh their final product (even if that was before fluids and battery)?
Edit - I'm specifically referencing EU manufacturers like BMW who have started to refer to "kerb" weight as wet weight. And have referenced an industry standard in their footnotes.
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WHAT???
I've never heard that before.
I'm not entirely sure I believe that without further documentation.
Why in God's name would a manufacturer not weigh their final product (even if that was before fluids and battery)?
The question has been much discussed for years , why published weight was always less than actual real poundage . If the manufacturers bothered to weigh their bikes why the obvious lie . So , after years of wondering why , and asking several supposed experts and receiving no satisfactory answer , a MC engineer wrote a letter to CW explaining what was really happening . That triggered another round of questioning by me , and an engineer friend told me that is common practice with boats , boat engines , cars , hell , even diesel locomotives .
Dusty
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if you add up all my parts, I should weigh.. not so much. but somehow I do.. it must be the fluids?:beer:
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That's all well and good, but was that in the last 2 years or so or before?
Cause I'm saying this change to manufacturers starting to list "kerb" or wet weights is that recent.
Before that we called dry weights "lie weights".
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Oh , and Kevm , manufacturers get caught , er , fibbing all of the time , or heralding some wonderful capability of a new MC that simply isn't accurate . Remember the R6 Yamaha from a few years back that redlined at a published X number of RPM's (16,000 ?) . Turns out the tachs were way out of whack , by almost 2K RPM's . How did they miss that ?
Dusty
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That's all well and good, but was that in the last 2 years or so or before?
Cause I'm saying this change to manufacturers starting to list "kerb" or wet weights is that recent.
Before that we called dry weights "lie weights".
Once again , either I am not explaining this well , or you aren't really listening . The Kerb weight and dry weight are both light by the same amount . When real world dry testing is done , the published weight is almost always low by at least 20 lbs , often more . Wet weight testing reveals the same discrepancy . In other words , both the dry and kerb weights are always low , so either the manufacturers are simply lying knowing they will get caught , or the two engineers I referenced are correct .
Dusty
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Once again , either I am not explaining this well , or you aren't really listening . The Kerb weight and dry weight are both light by the same amount . When real world dry testing is done , the published weight is almost always low by at least 20 lbs , often more . Wet weight testing reveals the same discrepancy . In other words , both the dry and kerb weights are always low , so either the manufacturers are simply lying knowing they will get caught , or the two engineers I referenced are correct .
Dusty
You're not explaining it, OR YOU'RE NOT LISTENING.
as you know I'm a spec junky.
Till recently I logged dry weights from OEM specs and wet weights from aftermarket sources that actually weight them.
Then in the last year or two I've started to see the OEM dry weight specs go away or at least be accompanied by new wet or "kerb" weights (the latter specifically referencing some standard I've not come across before that seems new) and the latter wet/kerb weights are corresponding to aftermarket weights.
Something has changed with regards to reporting from OEMS.
As for catching an OEM in a lie. I never assume it's gospel, but one lie doesn't mean the rest did too and just got away with it.
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Never mind Kev , you aren't even attempting to understand what I am saying .
Dusty
Ditto man.
Actually no. F that. I totally hear you.
You're saying they have traditionally published a theoretical weight that is the sum of all parts (at the weights they've logged). But that fails to take into consideration any variances in production. Yes?
The difference is that you're claiming the wet weights they've started to publish are similarly low. And I disagree.
I'm saying that MAY HAVE BEEN TRADITIONALLY TRUE AND I'VE ALWAYS ACCEPTED THEIR PUBLISHED WEIGHTS WOULD BE OFF BECAUSE OF IT.
But something changed in the last year or two. Manufacturers that NEVER (in my experience) published WET weights have started doing so. That they've started to reference a new standard that I've not researched, but not seen before. And that those numbers seem to agree with independent sources that are weighing them.
I'm dying something seems to have changed. And that the change seems to have addressed it.
But to complicate matters the new standard might be with 1/2 tank of fuel or something like that. At least I thought I saw that reference. If that's true it might account for a variance of 10-20# at full fueled weight no?
Anyway, all I really care about are numbers that can be compared relatively apples to apples. I'm not expecting peer reviewed science to the gram.
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All this techno-squabbling aside, I commend Indian for bringing out a pretty large bike, Made in USA, for an MSRP of $9K. I hope they sell well and give Harley a run for the money. That said, I'm on the road a lot on the job and have seen only two new Chiefs on the roads of California. Maybe the rest are all at the Rock Store.
Ralph
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I saw a whole bunch more Indians than Guzzis this summer. Yes, I do look for Indians but I look for Guzzis too.
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All this techno-squabbling aside, I commend Indian for bringing out a pretty large bike, Made in USA, for an MSRP of $9K. I hope they sell well and give Harley a run for the money. That said, I'm on the road a lot on the job and have seen only two new Chiefs on the roads of California. Maybe the rest are all at the Rock Store. Ralph
I have one them new NA chieftain. I put my money down May 013 and picked it up in Nov. S/N 837. the first ride home from the dealer was a tad over 3k smiles from Lincoln Nb to Tx, but included a detour down the Blue Ridge and Natchez Trace parkways. It took me 10 daze, mostly because I could not stop anywhere there were bikes parked as I would be overwhelmed with pesky bikers and pelted with questions. I should have printed a FAQ sheet and just handed them out?
This being my defacto Tour Bike only (I do not ride it in the city) in 2 yrs I have only rode it 5 times for a measley 16k smiles. I do see more of these NA on the road here in Tejas, but they still are few and far between. we now have 8 dealers am aware of. 3 within hour of me. From what I read there should be a boat load of these on the road next year.. somebody has got to tell me how to post pix here. poncho
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Check the top post in the FAQ section of the board.
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Back when I was in the aircraft engine business I had a guy that worked for me that was one of the principles in a very successful aircraft kit business.
He used to say that the performances of our competitors were usually "optimistic" at best and that the performance and weights of their machines were "measured at the brochure"!
I think there is allot of truth in that because if your a company and you publish the weight and performance it has to measure up to your competition. So everybody in the Moto business were publishing the "best case" or most impressive numbers to look good to the consumer.
When some of the manufacturers started to publish the actual "wet weight" it allowed others to do the same so to level the field.
Now wet/kerb? weight and are becoming the new standard.
"bout time.
:-)
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Edited a couple of posts , please refrain from using racist terms , thanks . Dusty
ob54, I may not be aware of what you refer to as racist terms? poncho
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OK , I get that . No real problem , but now that you are aware ... Dusty
ahh,, now I get it.. PC stuff. fixed poncho
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We are an all inclusive bunch and need to be aware of that . Thanks for understanding :thumb: Dusty
so your saying no Italian jokes even if we are regarding these bikes?.. dang and I married one of them,, once.was enuff.
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Our local dealer in LA had a tent sale this last weekend so I went to look at the Indian Scout in person. Really nice. I will say that as a shorter rider it's kinda nice to be able to fully flatfoot a motorcycle with both feet :rolleyes:
I thought seriously about trading in my V7 but instead I did what I promised myself I would do when I get a "new bike" urge.... I went out for a long ride on the V7 and it cured me of the craving (until next time).
I keep telling myself that when I have the urge to buy the next new shiny thing that it would be better to 1) just go for a ride on my bike, 2) sign up for a weekend of advanced training and 3) get some upgrades for the bike. In the long run, it is much cheaper to do these three things than to chase the elusive everything bike.
Since the Indian dealer in LA is also Eagle Rider rentals a salesman told me that I could rent the Scout for a few days down the line if I really need to scratch that itch. Hmmmmmm.
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Anyone looked at the prices on accessories? You could spend more then the bike's msrp by just fitting some louder pipes and a dual seat!
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Anyone looked at the prices on accessories? You could spend more then the bike's msrp by just fitting some louder pipes and a dual seat!
Overstate much?
Last time I checked prices weren't much different than Guzzi.
Aren't Agostinis around $1k even without a reflash?
OEM seats are a couple of hundred?
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Indian accessories are quite high in my opinion, but mostly of decent quality.
The Scout OEM bags look like soft bags but are hard bags trimmed in leather-and cost a lot more than say, a set of Osprey bags that mount in similar fashion. I'd get those instead if I were to do it over.
I see they sell a set of Fox shocks, $900-also seems high.
But as Kev says, it's the same with OEM accessories anyway. And louder pipes-really?
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I guess I could see where JP got that sticker shock. I mean, obviously exaggerated but still on the website they have "kits" which include a number of accessories. The 2-up touring kits are a little over $3k. Now that includes a ton of stuff, leather saddlebags ($100), touring seats and backrests for rider and passenger, windshield, etc.
That's NOT cheap, but it only take a $11k bike to a little over $14k.
Aren't the Touring saddlebags around $1k if you buy them for the Cali Custom?
How about the $1k+ topcase for the Cali?
Switching seats and adding a topcase and luggage to a Custom will yield the same sort of pricing.
How about adding a Agostinis and a Record fairing to a Racer?
Hell just adding HBs and racks and a centerstand and euro sidestand and sliders and seat and shocks and sump extender to my V7 I'm at $2800 not including the value of the free Dart Marlin I acquired (or the other free Dart Classic Jay loaned me and I loaned to Nick lol).
I think I've already said that I normally spend about $2-3k in accessories on every bike I own for any length of time.
I spent WAY more than that on the Jackal, like I actually DID exceed the price I paid for the Jackal, but I got it pretty cheap considering age/mileage.
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:1: to Kev's comments.
My shopping list for my recently-purchased V7 Special is over $2k, and includes sump extender, frame sliders, luggage racks (already have the luggage), seat, Agostini exhaust, shocks, and other smaller items.
Aftermarket muffers for V7s are $600-$1,200/pair. Hepco & Becker side cases + mounts will set you back around $800. Better shocks start around $350, and go up over $1,000.
You want sticker shock, price out some of the "Guzzi Garage" kits. I don't see any prices on the website, but, you can bet they're not inexpensive.
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I keep telling myself that when I have the urge to buy the next new shiny thing that it would be better to 1) just go for a ride on my bike, 2) sign up for a weekend of advanced training and 3) get some upgrades for the bike. In the long run, it is much cheaper to do these three things than to chase the elusive everything bike.
Yep, that's what I do. Just when I think I need a new bike, I get on mine. After 100miles then I don't want a new one anymore. I also realize that there is not a current bike that is what I want.
Helps too when I start adding up the cost of a newer bike. Makes spending another $500 on mine a bargain.
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Yep, that's what I do. Just when I think I need a new bike, I get on mine. After 100miles then I don't want a new one anymore. I also realize that there is not a current bike that is what I want.
Helps too when I start adding up the cost of a newer bike. Makes spending another $500 on mine a bargain.
This. I could put a *lot* of money in a new V9 and not have anything that I'd like better than the Aero Lario.
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Yep. You got it right Kev!
Guzzi accessories aren't cheap at all, but they way I look at it is probably the same way everybody does. I'm looking at what I will need to invest ot make the bike suit myself. While I've already spent quite a penny on the V7, when I look at the Scout, it seems that I'd have to spend a lot more :). Like the bike. A lot. But doesn't look like it will happen in my life at this point.
And yes, Guzzi Garage prices are not any better. Especially that high 2 into 1 Arrow. That's like third of what I've paid for the bike.
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Price BMW accessories sometime :evil:
For 2016 R1200R:
GPS: $799 (doesn't include "GPS" preparation that is required to hook it up, that is part of the >$3k "Premium Package").
Touring (Side) Cases: $1,043
Small Top Case: $587
Inner bags for touring cases: $252
Inner bag for small top base: $76
Tank Bag: $315
LED Driving lights: $719 !?!?!?!?
Engine Crash Guards: $462
Windshields that start at $362
Akropovic "Sport Silencer": $1,447
Mind you, this is on top of a motorcycle that is $15-$17k depending on "package" selection.