Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: motogman on December 29, 2015, 05:36:39 PM
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Like so many I have lusted for an 850 LeMans for sometime but they have become unobtainium.
While reading Falloon on V7 Sports and LeMans over the holidays I have become interested in the LeMans IV. From what I can tell these bikes are not particularly well loved but seem to be a pretty solid development in the Guzzi history. Yes - they had the weird 16 in front wheel and maybe this is problematic for tire replacement (what is the thinking on this issue?) but it seems the motor and rest of the bike are pretty solid.
So the discussion I want to start here is what are the good, the bad and the ugly with the LeMans IV? What are they going for?
How about some pics and experience with this model?
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I posted this same question about 10 years ago (how is it possible it was that long ago?).
A LM 4 SE was for sale locally. The thread is lost due to a board crash but essentially the verdict was as you already think: solid.
Some will gripe about the styling and the 16" front, others offered good real world advice and experience (hello Pete).
I had no issue with the 16 front and most owners did not either. John Wittner certainly didn't.
Unfortunately I let it go in spite of the good advice received here. Don't let that happen to you...:-)
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I had a `87 LM IV for 25K miles. Had to sell it before I lost my driver's license. Mine had the 16" front rim which came w/a 120/80 front tire. At certain speeds I would get some head shake. I put on a 110/90 front tire and no more head shakes. I liked the 16" front rim so much I put it on my CX100(LM II). 16" rim makes for quicker/lighter turning at slow speeds w/clip ons. :thumb:
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The styling may be different but they are far more comfy than earlier LeMans with the lower steering head and seat made from LEGOs.
Bigger motor
Bigger carbs
B10 cam
Better suspension
:drool:
In ten years it'll be sought after and you'll already have one.
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In ten years it'll be sought after and you'll already have one.
True. :thumb: The 16 inch wheel is a non issue.
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The 16" tire is a non issue for me. Maybe inflation pressure or tire mfg. Contributed to the problem some had ???? The original 850 Lemans is great, but for the most part I think the bikes got better with every model introduced. Culminating with the Lemans 5. Probably my favorite of the series. However, my daily rider is usually the V11 sport and I suspect next year the Centauro....
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The LeMans IV is a true sport/tourer. It's not fun to ride in stop & go. Made for the open road with over 220 miles between fillups. I had a Corbin seat on mine and could ride it comfortably 900 miles a day if needed. I got 40-45 mpg with mine. But mine was not stock. It had bad ass sounding GiaCa moto mufflers, 2-1-2 exhaust, titanium pushrods. It was cold blooded until warmed up. Top speed was 137 mph, which I ran it at many times on public roads. That's why I sold it before I paid the piper. :evil: :copcar:
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I bought my 1986 LM 1000 in 1986 from Larry Klein (may he rest in peace) at GT Motors in Michigan. I still have it. It still has its original 16-inch front wheel. And it still hasn't given me any real problems. In fact, the bike has been stone cold reliable. The only changes I've made have been a Corbin seat (the original isn't bad, especially if you've had experience with earlier Le Mans models), braided steel brake lines and a Hepco u. Becker rack system for their 30L side cases.
In past years I've toured on the bike and used it as an all-purpose machine. That being said, it's happiest on the open road or in mixed use on mixed roads. It's not a good commuter bike. The bike reliably returns 45-50 mpg and has all the power I need in my advanced years. In fact, that's one of its best virtues: it was a fairly overt sports bike when I got it in 1986 and I was a bit more of a sport myself. As almost 30 years have gone by, my sportyness has diminished and the bike would now be considered a sport tourer. As a result, it's still a perfect match for my needs and skills. Over the years I've grown to enjoy it even more every spring when I break it out for the first time after a long winter.
If you're concerned about tire availability for the 16-inch front and 18-inch rear tires, rest assured that there are several good choices available in the U.S. Among these are Avon Road Riders, Bridgestone BT45 Battlax, Michelins of one sort or another and surely others that I haven't delved into. Perhaps the most important issue regardless of brand is maintaining a rather high inflation pressure. That seems to ward off handling oddities. One missing tire fitment on the U.S. market is the Pirelli Sport Demon. They don't import the proper front tire.
These bikes are simple, reliable and easy to work on. There don't seem to be any unobtanium parts. Its weak spots are few: the cheaply made handlebar switchgear and, some will say, the standard carburation. Tread carefully here as it's much easier to make things worse than better. Improvement is not as simple as swapping in the Euro jetting because the basic carb internals are not directly compatible. That being said, a good starting point is well documented if you find that a given bike runs unsatisfactorily. Valvetrain wear, particularly related to the valve stems, has been reported but I've not experienced any issues. One thing that helps greatly in the overall ownership experience is to fit a decently powerful battery. An Odyssey will make starting the high-compression engine an easier task.
As a buyer, you'll find a fairly good assortment of bikes come along over a few months time. I've seen rough examples going for as little as $3-4,000. Very nice bikes are not hard to find in the $5-6,000 range. Things like the Le Mans 1000 SE and later LM V models often command a modest premium on these prices. The later bikes also have an 18-inch front wheel for those too timid to ignore the misinformation surrounding the original 16-inch wheel.
All-in-all, the Le Mans 1000 (LM IV or LM V) are outstanding sport Guzzis and, in my opinion, are currently undervalued, thus a very good buy. Mine's not for sale.
If you do find one, drop me a PM. I'll send you a CD with a wealth of original factory documentation (Parts, Workshop and Owner's Manuals in pdf form), copies of original brochures and ads, road tests, how-to fixing tips, wiring diagrams and much more. It's a nice compilation. Just send me a PM and I'll send one along. I'll ship these for free anywhere in the world to WildGuzzi list participants. This same offer is open to any WildGuzzi member.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp336/Le_Roy/LM_IV_when_new.jpg) (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/Le_Roy/media/LM_IV_when_new.jpg.html)
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I've had mine for 29 and a half years now. Nothing more needs to be said.
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/doubled86_20061/20140316_102415_zps8e2bc9e3.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/doubled86_20061/media/20140316_102415_zps8e2bc9e3.jpg.html)
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I've had mine for 29 and a half years now. Nothing more needs to be said.
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/doubled86_20061/20140316_102415_zps8e2bc9e3.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/doubled86_20061/media/20140316_102415_zps8e2bc9e3.jpg.html)
Hi, how did you do the front end conversion-especially the round headlght? All bolt on or some mods? I see you also changed the speedo?
I recently purchased on 84 LM IV - repairable line crack in front fairing. So I was thinking of alternatively doing the round headlight conversion.
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A tonti lemans will own your soul!
The lemans 1000 is the most ugly/beautiful motorbike ever made, still after 5 years of ownership I really cant decide if its a real looker or real loathsome.
huge tank, all the guzzi virtues, none of the stupid fuel injection issues, practical enough for daily use, narrow for filtering, sporty but not overly so, it throbs, spits and swaggers and will do its own thing until the end of time (or the end of its clutch if you're lazy)
LeRoy very kindly posted me a cd with a wealth of information on the lemans all the way to france so you'll find yourself in the company of some really good people if you get one...
re the 16inch v 18 front wheel there were actually 3 itinerations from the factory;
as i understand it;
1- 16inch front wheel with no frame changes - dodgy weave
2 -16inch front wheel with frame adapted to suit wheel size - beautiful handling a la dr john's racer
3- return to 18inch wheel but keeping the frame adpated for the 16inch - doh! steers like a bus
get one!
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(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Zenithman/Tobit.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/eroman/OTS.jpg)
A super bike, easy to maintain and overbuilt. The parts you might never see for sale are the BatWing Euro turn signals. Almost worth buying a bike for just to harvest them and flip the bike.
From an old post:
Bought in '87, with 3,000 miles. Now has 48,000 miles so obviously I parked it for a year or three now and again when other bikes were in the stable. The others have come and gone but this one stays. Has some of the usual period mods from RaceCo, and aftermarket.
Currently with Bub header/Emgo "Dunstall Decibels"
K&Ns,
Ed Milich "Final Udate" jetting http://www.guzzitech.com/lemansjetting-ed.html
Light throttle springs
Removed external throttle return springs
Agostini timing gears (removed, went back to chain when the gear teeth began pitting and howling like a supercharger)
Dyna III ignition & coils
Accel wires
390 Cam (probably not needed, wasn't the 390 a B10?)
Lightened flywheel/ring gear
FAC dampers and Progressive springs
18" FW
SS brake lines, still integrated
100/55 Halogen w/ HL relay
Halogen hi output parking light (don't remember wattage)
Ignition switch relay (only relay coil current goes through switch now)
SS valves
Bronze guides w/ seals
3-angle seat grind
CC'd combustion chambers & intakes
Solid rocker spacers
Used to have built in radar detector, removed when living in VA
Michelin Macadam (much better life and ride than Metzeler ME33/ME99 combo)
Seat by whoever made it. I found it hanging at Moto America about 20 years ago. Still nice.
Other doo-dads I've forgotten over the years.
I don't ride it much anymore due to family obligations but there's nothing like it when it fires up and flies me down the road, loafing at 80mph turning heads and intimidating Mustangs with it's sound. Nice Guzzi I just can't seem to part with. It's only for sale occasionally, then I start it and ride it. It's pretty much "me."
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re the 16inch v 18 front wheel there were actually 3 itinerations from the factory;
as i understand it;
1- 16inch front wheel with no frame changes - dodgy weave
2 -16inch front wheel with frame adapted to suit wheel size - beautiful handling a la dr john's racer
3- return to 18inch wheel but keeping the frame adpated for the 16inch - doh! steers like a bus
<All of this is from memory, so don't flame me if it isn't totally correct>. I don't remember any changes to the frame itself, but there were different triple clamps. In the US, the '85 had different triple clamps than the '86 onward. It's easy to tell the difference - the early ones were smoothly cast and aluminum, the later ones were roughly cast and steel/iron. The offset was different, the later triples have less. The later triples were offered as an update for the early bikes by the importer. There was lots of loud "discussion" at the importer's open house in '86 about all of this.
<edit: page 90 of "Moto Guzzi Big Twins" seems to agree with the above>.
Dr. John was running the early smooth ones when I saw the bike in '85.
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I had a 1985 LeMansIV. Everyone I personally talked to that had handling issues had he bike over loaded and incorrectly loaded. I used it to travel solo, with sadle bags, anks bag and a large bag attached to the seat. Never had any issues with handling.
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ah yes charlie, you may in fact be correct.... My copy of the lemans bible is nowhere at hand so I can't verify, I thought it might have been the steering stem that changed as well?? next time jacksonracing is online I'm sure he can us straight if you haven't already...
...except a 'triple clamp' should really be called a 'yoke', if you'll pardon me standing up for the queens english!
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A few more questions....
There seems to be a number stamped in the steering head/frame and the number on the VIN plate. What about engine numbers? Do they match? I did not see an engine number on the VIN plate but did not look that closely.,
What about the SE variant? Falloon indicates there were ~150 of these made. Does anyone know the serial numbers of the SE models. I think they are pretty self evident by the color scheme etc. What, if any, premium does an SE bring?
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A few more questions....
There seems to be a number stamped in the steering head/frame and the number on the VIN plate. What about engine numbers? Do they match? I did not see an engine number on the VIN plate but did not look that closely.,
What about the SE variant? Falloon indicates there were ~150 of these made. Does anyone know the serial numbers of the SE models. I think they are pretty self evident by the color scheme etc. What, if any, premium does an SE bring?
Don't know if this happened to all of the SEs shipped to the US but many were exposed to salt air coming over and thusly were sold cheaper because of it. Harpers should remember about this. :azn:
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Don't know if this happened to all of the SEs shipped to the US but many were exposed to salt air coming over and thusly were sold cheaper because of it. Harpers should remember about this. :azn:
Falloon mentions this about the SE. I had the number wrong - he says 100 were shipped to the US ans some to other markets. He also notes the trans had straight cut gears and a different set of ratios. Can anyone interpret what this means re performance etc?
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Don't know if this happened to all of the SEs shipped to the US but many were exposed to salt air coming over and thusly were sold cheaper because of it. Harpers should remember about this. :azn:
IIRC, it was just one container full, however many that might have been. Price on those was reduced by $2500.
"Moto Guzzi Big Twins" suggests the SE was actually slower by a second in the 1/4 mile due to higher first gear ratio.
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re the 16inch v 18 front wheel there were actually 3 itinerations from the factory;
as i understand it;
1- 16inch front wheel with no frame changes - dodgy weave
2 -16inch front wheel with frame adapted to suit wheel size - beautiful handling a la dr john's racer
3- return to 18inch wheel but keeping the frame adpated for the 16inch - doh! steers like a bus
There was indeed an early change to the fork geometry of Le Mans 1000 models with the 16-inch front wheel. This is what the quote above notes as items 1 & 2. However, it was not the frame that was modified; it was the forks and related bits. Sometime in May 1985 the factory documented a running change in LM 1000 production from frame number 12631 and some slightly earlier machines. This change incorporated new upper and lower fork yokes, new dampers, new headlight ears and miscellaneous hardware. See the first page attached below.
There was also a retrofit kit (28 99 95 60) to bring previous bikes up to this level. It included all of the above parts as well as a new fork seal design and a new side stand which was apparently needed to work properly with the new fork geometry. See the second page attached below.
I cannot say with certainty that the early and late fork geometry corresponds with the smooth cast aluminum vs. rough steel fork material noted in Charlie's post above. I also do not know whether the early and later fork yokes have any uniquely identifying numbers on them. It would be very interesting to see whether any long-time dealers have the retrofit kit still on hand. I believe that I came by this information from Harpers, so a hat tip is due them for the record keeping.
Finally, if I were to be looking at a 1985 LM 1000 made anytime in the first half of the calendar year, I'd look very carefully at the forks and try to establish what, exactly, was on the bike. I would also look very critically at any LM 1000 fork yokes being sold as spare parts. It would be unfortunate to unknowingly buy the earlier parts. In a perfect world you'd expect the first generation parts that were superseded to have been destroyed. But an ounce of prevention might be worth a pound of cure in this case.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp336/Le_Roy/LM%201000%20Fork%20Change%201_zpsnybpq6ts.jpg) (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/Le_Roy/media/LM%201000%20Fork%20Change%201_zpsnybpq6ts.jpg.html)
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp336/Le_Roy/LM%201000%20Fork%20Change%202_zpsro47n9jg.jpg) (http://s425.photobucket.com/user/Le_Roy/media/LM%201000%20Fork%20Change%202_zpsro47n9jg.jpg.html)
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IIRC, it was just one container full, however many that might have been
AFAIK, a container load is 34 bikes.
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What year did Guzzi start using the long international VIN numbering standard?
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Different years in different jurisdictions, I believe. My 1995 1100 Sport (sold new in New Zealand) does NOT have the the current VIN format (starting with ZGU). I have a suspicion that the newer format was required earlier in the US.
Mal
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I was lucky to find this well kept 85 LeMans 1000 from a forum member, and it was located about 4 hours drive from my home. This bike is very well sorted( Thanks Bruce!) and runs very strong. The sound from the Mistral pipes is intoxicating....It sounds like a hot rodded automotive V8 to me, and Ive had a few people comment that it "doesnt sound like a motorcycle" I like the look of the 16" fat front tire, and it seems to handle fine to me. I have only owned it for a couple of months, but I have fallen head over heels for this hot Italian "redhead"...She is a keeper!
Rick.
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/bigbikerrick/85%20Guzzi%20Le%20Mans%201000/20151120_174107%20%2085%20Le%20Mans_zpswlbmfjaj.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/bigbikerrick/media/85%20Guzzi%20Le%20Mans%201000/20151120_174107%20%2085%20Le%20Mans_zpswlbmfjaj.jpg.html)(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/bigbikerrick/85%20Guzzi%20Le%20Mans%201000/20151107_115318%20Guzzi_zpsd7bu1vaj.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/bigbikerrick/media/85%20Guzzi%20Le%20Mans%201000/20151107_115318%20Guzzi_zpsd7bu1vaj.jpg.html)(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/bigbikerrick/85%20Guzzi%20Le%20Mans%201000/20151124_034737_zps8nusbfkz.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/bigbikerrick/media/85%20Guzzi%20Le%20Mans%201000/20151124_034737_zps8nusbfkz.jpg.html)(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/bigbikerrick/85%20Guzzi%20Le%20Mans%201000/20151225_142955_zpsir5ksyly.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/bigbikerrick/media/85%20Guzzi%20Le%20Mans%201000/20151225_142955_zpsir5ksyly.jpg.html)
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I've had mine for 29 and a half years now. Nothing more needs to be said.
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/doubled86_20061/20140316_102415_zps8e2bc9e3.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/doubled86_20061/media/20140316_102415_zps8e2bc9e3.jpg.html)
Looking Luvley D :tongue:
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The SE close ratio gearbox offers less pickup performance on tight roads ( or 1/4 mile ) compared to the other lemans gearboxes. It comes onto it`s own at triple digit speeds and will outrun any other lemans due to it`s tight 4th and 5th gears. For real world riding and road legal speeds, the regular lemans is a better choice. Behind that bodywork is perhaps one of Moto Guzzi`s best bikes ever.
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It is a good vintage Guzzi, but ugly!
The 850 is a much more rowdy ride in my experience. Yes, the LM I is now big money, but the LM III 850 not so much. Just need to find a Corbin if you want more comfort.
(http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad123/osteoglossum/IMG_9042_zps10a46595.jpg) (http://s928.photobucket.com/user/osteoglossum/media/IMG_9042_zps10a46595.jpg.html)
(http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad123/osteoglossum/IMG_7616_zps36237f6f.jpg) (http://s928.photobucket.com/user/osteoglossum/media/IMG_7616_zps36237f6f.jpg.html)
(http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad123/osteoglossum/IMG_8945_zps3e827013.jpg) (http://s928.photobucket.com/user/osteoglossum/media/IMG_8945_zps3e827013.jpg.html)
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Tonti LeMans.. :thumb: :thumb: What they've been making lately? Not my cuppa. I'll stick with my 4/5 scale LeMans 4 and Mighty Scura... the last of the *real* Guzzis. :evil: :boozing: :smiley:
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Tonti LeMans.. :thumb: :thumb: What they've been making lately? Not my cuppa. I'll stick with my 4/5 scale LeMans 4 and Mighty Scura... the last of the *real* Guzzis. :evil: :boozing: :smiley:
I cant call the IV ugly, but, cosmetically, I do prefer the tail of the III. To my taste, the II is the prettiest of the series, I even like it better than the 1. , but thats just me, I like the brutal look of the square engine.
Rick.
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Hi All & Happy New Year!
This is my LMIVSE, I got from the late great MGNOC Ohio Rep Jack Arnold. When he first told me about the bike, I had no clue what it was, having no Guzzi savvy, I googled it to get an idea of what they looked like. Well, I don't know about the color scheme, I thought. As it got closer to the time to actually go see the bike at Jack's place, I had made a decision that I'm going to get this bike whatever the cost, it was to be my first Guzzi, I no longer cared about the color, I no longer cared about what others had to say regarding the 16" front wheel and other rhetoric....I wanted this thing!
I enjoy riding it, as others have said, it's not a pleasurable urban commuter (tall gearing) but at highway speed and above, it's rock solid and rapidly starts to feel missile like. I'm very happy that I didn't pass on the opportunity to experience this motorcycle. Today, I think that most of these offered are reasonably priced/highly affordable. If you want one, get one, they're out there, we're not get any younger...just do it! No regrets here.
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk175/rtaart/My%2087%20LM%20SE_zpsfrfvoock.png) (http://s280.photobucket.com/user/rtaart/media/My%2087%20LM%20SE_zpsfrfvoock.png.html)
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Hi, how did you do the front end conversion-especially the round headlght? All bolt on or some mods? I see you also changed the speedo?
I recently purchased on 84 LM IV - repairable line crack in front fairing. So I was thinking of alternatively doing the round headlight conversion.
I did the round light conversion many years ago, and i did it the cheap way. I just cut the std brackets drilled two holes in each and mounted my own home made brackets to these. When i bought this latest chrome headlight i looked around for some proper brackets but could find nothing i liked the look of, or were long enough. I wanted the headlight to be well forward of the forks.
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/doubled86_20061/IMG_1120_zpsfzmwzmi1.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/doubled86_20061/media/IMG_1120_zpsfzmwzmi1.jpg.html)
The only real bad thing i have to say for this model is the shit electrical system which i put up with for 25 years before it let me down in a big way. With expert advice from Old Jock i rewired the bike using Motogadget components. Motogadget is a digital system that has just two fuses, no relays, no crap. Keyless ignition and auto cancel blinkers are just two of the many features and with the
M-Switches i know that the lights will always light, the blinkers will always blink and the horn will always scare shit out of anyone close.
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/doubled86_20061/IMG_1121_zpsiaswloag.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/doubled86_20061/media/IMG_1121_zpsiaswloag.jpg.html)
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/doubled86_20061/IMG_1122_zpswpe4gvij.jpg) (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/doubled86_20061/media/IMG_1122_zpswpe4gvij.jpg.html)
With the installation of an outsider filter this bike is now virtually maintenance free, just check the tyres and go
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I have an '87 LM 1000. Fewer than 19K miles, in very, very good shape. I'm the 2nd owner. Original owner had all the period Raceco modifications done before he licensed it. He added BUB exhaust and I have the original pipes. If interested PM me I have pictures.
Big bikes have gotten to be too big for me. The heard is getting reduced to 650cc's or less; excepting the Daytona. R3~
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Haven't had problems with the 16" wheel on mine. The major problem which I found totally by chance was the accelerator pumps on the carb were set-up wrong from the factory. Right side shot a stream of gas 20' while the left shot it 5'.
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It started before Christmas when my wife ask me for the tenth time what I wanted for Christmas. I have been working on my 74 MG and I finally told her I wanted a mid 70's Le Mans. She sent me a link of pictures of mid 70's Pontiac LeMans. I sent her a link of 70's 850 LeMans and told her she had the wrong language. We had a laugh.
A few days later I am getting the tires removed from the rims of the bike I am working on and the shop has a LeMans IV sitting in the shop. It was not owned by the shop but was a customers bike and he was looking to sell. After Christmas I went back to look at it in more detail. Oh yes, I stopped by the bank on the way and had an envelop of Franklins in my pocket.
So this is my Christmas present to myself, or more correctly my New Years present. 30,181 miles on the clock bought from the second owner. Good guy. In very good shape but not 100% perfect, but then again it didn't take perfect money to make it mine.
(http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af200/motogman/LeMansIV/DSCN6711s_zpsre8g7dh4.jpg)
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The offset was different, the later triples have less.
Dr. John was running the early smooth ones when I saw the bike in '85.
This
Finally, if I were to be looking at a 1985 LM 1000 made anytime in the first half of the calendar year, I'd look very carefully at the forks and try to establish what, exactly, was on the bike. I would also look very critically at any LM 1000 fork yokes being sold as spare parts. It would be unfortunate to unknowingly buy the earlier parts. In a perfect world you'd expect the first generation parts that were superseded to have been destroyed. But an ounce of prevention might be worth a pound of cure in this case.
Why ?
Early offset is perfect with 18" conversion (just like an old Tonti)
For some only with 16" --journos hated it, proper quick steering
Late with 16" or 17" for anyone, this gives good trail for roadbike
Late with 18" , LM5 and 1000S etc not ideal, hence my steer like a bus quote, make a loopy seem like a quick steerer, but journos said "fixed"
If I got one of last with 18" wheel, I'd look for early yokes or fit smaller wheel
Nothing wrong with the early offset, just maybe not with 16"
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Hey Motogman,
From what I can see, nice SE!
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Thanks.
Yes - it is not a very good picture but I went over the bike in detail and it is very good for a 29 year old bike. It needs a couple of things - a switch cover has gone missing on the right side, the shocks seem weak, some polish and cleaning hear and there but all in all very nice. Also have the original mufflers - Franconis are on it.
When I get it home I will post some better pictures.
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I cant call the IV ugly, but, cosmetically, I do prefer the tail of the III. To my taste, the II is the prettiest of the series, I even like it better than the 1. , but thats just me, I like the brutal look of the square engine.
Rick.
I had a `87 LeMans IV and still have a `81 CX100(II). I see the IV the prettiest but the fairing on the II/CX is the most efficient & you can add a handlebar to it like I did when the clip ons are no longer acceptable. :thumb: The CX isn't as fast as the IV but in the real world it's fast enough and gets better gas mileage with it's SP small valve motor.
Back in 1980? in the UK the LM IIs were slow sellers so they were painted black w/gold trim and those are AWESOME looking!! :boozing:
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Hard to make the distinction between the 16" and 18". For my type of riding out here in the mountains, they both handle well. The SE may be a little quicker but not that noticeable to me. I have the SE '87 and a '89. The Strada fits in there somewhere.
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The Strada is the SP III w/o the bodywork. Seems not many sold in the US just like the 1100 Breva. :huh: A nice looking bike, IMHO.
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Yes and I have a Strada.
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Here is my 1985 Lemans IV,
I just bought her from a guy out of St. Louise, MO about three month ago. She is an all original (with the exceptions of the new SS brake lines, new rear brake caliber, and ignition upgrade) 5200 mile bike. Luckily, I got the original exhaust for that bike too. I had a local Italian motorcycle mechanic, Johann, which is the owner of Moto Motivo here out of Raleigh NC, check her out for me. He replaced some seals, all fluids, filters, adjusted the valves, and powder coated the valve covers in black. The original paint / coating looked really bad with most having peeled off already. I'm glad that Johann did the work and gave this bike the thumbs up. I was stunned that the oil filter that Johann removed from my bike was the original, almost 32 year old filter that Moto Guzzi installed when they build the bike! This bike rides great.
Andy
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dJT75a/IMG_9842.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dJT75a)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eq6Gyv/IMG_9825.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eq6Gyv)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/ii8OoS/IMG_0373.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ii8OoS)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eYFKTS/fullsizeoutput_1fb7a.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eYFKTS)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cOTHF7/fullsizeoutput_201f9.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cOTHF7)
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Try cleaning with a good degreaser first then see if the aluminum looks good enough for you. Otherwise polishing it may work better for you but that's a lot of work.
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/d5ftdv/image.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d5ftdv)
Old crappy tonti lemans? Hate 'em that's why I have two. One since 1989
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I'm still on my '80 SP 1000 NT. Chugs right down the interstate with no problems except it being 36 years old.
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I rode mine for about 35,000 miles. I'm just finishing the rebuild/restoration.
I love the bike. But as stated above, it's neither a beginner bike, nor a city bike.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=74056.0 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=74056.0)
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A few more questions....
.... Does anyone know the serial numbers of the SE models. I think they are pretty self evident by the color scheme etc.
Sorry to wake up an old thread :-) The SE models also have a stamp on the gearbox on the left side of the case. Letters ZDxxxxx
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/grrZOS/5030_96668727380_7523578_n.jpg) (http://ibb.co/grrZOS)
Took mine out yesterday for a 100 mile ride...most fun I had in a longggggggggg time!
Brian
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I have 1985 LeMans 4 that I bought just over 10 years ago, I upgraded the front suspension and I run 17" wheels with radial tires.
I never had an issue with the 16" wheel I just love to work on bikes and tinker as much as I can.
This bike is by far my favorite and every time I get frustrated with my Kawasaki KZ1300 I take the Guzzi for a ride to clear my head.
Love that bike
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jBRXv7/IMG_0331.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jBRXv7)
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/jBRXv7/IMG_0331.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jBRXv7)
Nice wheels and front end there. Can you elaborate on what you've done?
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GSXR front end?
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Yes i to would like to know the parts involved in this upgrade please. This has been on my to do list for a few years now and with the pending sale of another bike i would like to get this mod done.
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I love my 87 1,000 - it seems to work well for me around town, though it is happiest loafing along at 80. I've had it a little over a year and ride it most of the time though I have many other choices - probably time to start clearing out the garage.
The 87 was the last year of the 16" front wheel, but mine was changed to an 18 early on. At first I thought the triple trees were very wrong for the larger wheel because it steered like a truck. That was all fixed, however, once it got converted from the 120x80 18 to a 110x90.
As for the three different versions of triple trees, I'm curious if the first version was reinstated in 1988 with the return of the 18" front wheel? Yes, I know the second version (just an intermediate thing for several months) was steel, but it had the same geometry as the third version which was aluminum. I'd like to know if mine has the first version or the third (which it should have come with) - how can I tell? It's not steel, so definitely not the second version.
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Here is a tasty 850 LM-III on eBay now!! :1: :thumb: :cool:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nG2MtS/Screen_Shot_2018_03_10_at_3_09_18_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/nG2MtS)
best online image hosting (http://imgbb.com/)
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I've had my '85 since 2004 or so and don't ride it nearly as much as it deserves. That said, it ALWAYS starts and ALWAYS makes me laugh out loud. I'm surprised I've never gotten a ticket on it...
The 16" front wheel is a nonissue with me in large part because the '87 SPII I bought new still has it. I think the SP is quicker because the 16" wheel is 1/4" narrower than the one on the LeMans.
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IIRC isn't the rear wheel on your SPII also 16"??
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IIRC isn't the rear wheel on your SPII also 16"??
No, you're probably thinking of the 850-T5, which had 16" front and rear. The SPII had 16 front/18 back.
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.... As for the three different versions of triple trees, I'm curious if the first version was reinstated in 1988 with the return of the 18" front wheel? Yes, I know the second version (just an intermediate thing for several months) was steel, but it had the same geometry as the third version which was aluminum. I'd like to know if mine has the first version or the third (which it should have come with) - how can I tell? It's not steel, so definitely not the second version.
If you have an '87, then it should be the 2nd (3rd) generation in aluminum. The steel one as far as I understand it was only available as a kit to "fix" the issue on the 84-86 bikes, but not out of the factory installed already. According to the LM parts manual, the 88-91 (18" wheel) would then use the same as what you have. As far as the visual difference goes between the first generation (and the 2nd (and 3rd) generation goes), from what I can figure out is that the 1st generation triple plates are more rounded when looking at the plate from top, and the later ones like what is on your 87, are more angular.
Though, this is based on online research and my own conclusion on this topic. I hope someone whom has actually worked on these forks (old and new) can confirm.
Top one is the early version, lower image is the later version.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/ftfjYS/LM1000_Top_pic_is_for_original_16_lower_is_for_later_16_18.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ftfjYS)
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No, you're probably thinking of the 850-T5, which had 16" front and rear. The SPII had 16 front/18 back.
Okay. Mixed info. The SPII would steer as quick as an LMIV with same set-up. I have had no problems with mine and there are no cracks in the triple trees. Seems that when the bike came out that some American riders like pounding the bikes.
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Thanks Groover.
I'd like to know what the difference in geometry is. Guzziology says the 86 and newer trees give more trail which would slow the steering for the 16" wheel. Add an 18" and that slows it even more.
Mine feels pretty normal (since installing tire sizes spec'd for the 88), but it's got a wide turning radius because of the reduced steering movement. It doesn't do tight turns! I'm curious how much of that is due to the triple trees.
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I'd be curious to know the offset difference as well. I know the newer ones have less offset, giving the more trail. Maybe that reduces turn radius, not sure. I know mine with the 16" requires at least 1.5 times more maneuvering than my G5. I think the turn radius is just short on those to prevent the fairing from hitting the tank and tank spoilers.
Here is a sketch I did a while ago when I was trying to figure out this change. The red shows the wheel and forks location with the original triples, the green is with the updated triples. Basically this sketch shows how offset plays into changing trail (in general)
(http://www.scooteropolis.com/images/guzzi/wg/Scooteropolis%20-%20Le%20Mans%201000%20IV%20-%20Triples%20Study.jpg)
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Okay. Mixed info. The SPII would steer as quick as an LMIV with same set-up. I have had no problems with mine and there are no cracks in the triple trees. Seems that when the bike came out that some American riders like pounding the bikes.
I know that my LeMans had the triple trees updated to the later version long before I got it. I've never had any weird feelings from it since I've owned it.
Honestly, I think my SPII is quicker than the LeMans. Although both have 16/18, the 16" front wheel on the SP is .25" narrower than the one on the LeMans.
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I'm guessing the handlebar and their mount point differences between the LM and the SP come into play on this.
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Air pressure and size of tire too.
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Yes to both, I'm sure! I've often wondered what the LeMans would be like with an SPII front wheel on it.
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Thanks for the diagram, Groover. That certainly puts it out there in a simple way.
Yes, the turning radius is huge because of the steering stops limiting movement - fairing hitting the tank, bars/tank, etc. But once i'd gotten the tire situation sorted out, it's as nimble as any other bike I've owned. While I was trying to figure that out, I'd called Moto International looking for some original triples, which they didn't have. But Dave did tell me not to worry about the triples, the difference is so minute I wouldn't notice it.
I've never ridden any of the Guzzis with a 16" front, so have no comparison.