Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: gorgegeezer on April 17, 2016, 07:19:23 PM
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Hello All,
2016 V7II Stone with about 4000 miles. Went for a ride on Saturday and stopped at a rest area. Go to start it and it makes the whirring noise, gauges do their thing, lights flash - all normal except it doesn't even turnover - silence. Fuss with it a bit (kickstand up and down, move gear shift lever) and after a couple of tries it starts right up. Runs fine for the 45 minute ride home. Today, same deal: does its pre-start routine then push the start button and nothing happens. Battery Tender says the battery is charged. Any ideas? Thanks.
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The only time that ever happened to me the engine kill switch was tripped. I'm guessing that is not your problem.
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Check the battery terminals and main earth strap point for tightness and cleanliness. Will it turn over but not fire? If so check our plug caps.
pete
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Starter relay not getting all the voltage due to poor connection in a circuit connector.
Happened to me with a corroded terminal in a connector behind and above the voltage regulator - just under the front of the fuel tank.
Good luck!
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Just because I did it twice this weekend (after 11k miles of ownership) you didn't perchance leave it in gear with the sidestand down?
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Thank you for the suggestions. I've done the kickstand down while in gear trick myself a few times. I like the corroded/loose connector idea - accounts for the flakiness of the problem. I'll be looking into that this week.
Thanks again for the responses - great resource.
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I'm with Penderick - Sounds like a typical case of Startus Interuptus but what do I know?
Do you get a faint clicking noise in the relay area?
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif
Measure the Voltage, fuse C to chassis while trying to start.
Measure the Voltage on the purple wire at the starter solenoid to chassis while trying to start.
Measure the Voltage at the battery negative terminal (jamb probe into the post) to chassis while trying to start.
Report back.
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Like KiwiRoy said, are you getting the clicking sound of the starter solenoid engaging, or just silence (aside from the dials moving and the fuel injection loading)? That info will help us locate the problem.
It could be one of the starter interlock switches ; neutral, kickstand, kill switch.
As always, cleaning and tightening the battery connection and starer/solenoid connection is good.
Keep us posted on whether you get the solenoid "clicking" or not.
Joe
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Fwiw, I've not even started to worry about Startus Interruptus on my 2013 yet. Just the fact the circuit different use the computer controlled one-touch release line the CARCs makes me suspicious that it won't show up nearly as early in a bike's life.
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The start relay is silent. Pulled the connector off the relay and reseated it - no good. Fuses good. Looked at clutch & side stand connections hoping to see something obvious - yeah, right. That's about all I had time for this evening, but later in the week I'll pull the relay connector and give it a proper cleaning. Thanks again for your help.
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Try a new battery. Good luck.
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The start relay is silent. Pulled the connector off the relay and reseated it - no good. Fuses good. Looked at clutch & side stand connections hoping to see something obvious - yeah, right. That's about all I had time for this evening, but later in the week I'll pull the relay connector and give it a proper cleaning. Thanks again for your help.
In summary, power goes to the gauges and lights, but the engine doesn't tun over. And the starter solenoid isn't clicking either.
Next see is power is getting to the starter relay. There should be a click here when the relay connects, although fainter than the solenoid. Turn the key and try to start, listening for the relays. Take off the seat so you can listen better, and touching the relays will let you feel the clicking.
And as always, the first step is tightening the battery connections, the primary battery ground (I think this cable goes to an engine bolt on the right side), the starter and solenoid connections, and making sure the battery is good and fully charged. Even thought this is a newer bike, the battery can still be bad through bad storeage, etc.
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Battery Tender says the battery is charged. Any ideas? Thanks.
your BT knows nothing.. get a load test.
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Next see is power is getting to the starter relay. There should be a click here when the relay connects, although fainter than the solenoid. Turn the key and try to start, listening for the relays. Take off the seat so you can listen better, and touching the relays will let you feel the clicking.
And as always, the first step is tightening the battery connections, the primary battery ground (I think this cable goes to an engine bolt on the right side), the starter and solenoid connections, and making sure the battery is good and fully charged. Even thought this is a newer bike, the battery can still be bad through bad storeage, etc.
Kinda tough listening for a relay on the 1TB motor since they're under the tank.
OP - Look, if it works one second and doesn't the next, the battery itself is fine. A battery doesn't not have a proper charge, but suddenly does seconds later. In a RARE instance it might have been so discharged it just barely had enough and something else kept the circuit from starting for one second and then a second later it made the connection just starting in the nick of time. Bahh, if you hear footprints think horses not zebras. It's not the battery.
There is a loose or bad connection somewhere.
Sure, check the battery cables, but in this particular instance I'm leaning towards a neutral safety switch or clutch switch or something like that which can be fussy or just out of position breaking the circuit.
We know the fuse (15A, 3rd from the left) is good because the circuit worked eventually. It COULD be loose, but unlikely. Also keep in mind the fuse powers the ECU, instrument panel, and injectors. I believe you said the instrument panel came on, which would always mean the fuse is still good.
It COULD be a relay, and there's no harm unbolting the back of the tank, lifting it up and feeling to see if the starter relay (middle of the 3) is clicking. You could also make sure the relay is fully seated in the electrical connector (which is different from just making sure its grommet is sitting on the locating blade). If you really wanted to you could swap any of the relays to see if the problem follows the relay.
They are all 30A relays. I think the other two are lights and injection, but I can't readily find their locations (not sure which is the front relay and which is the rear, but that's easy enough to determine if you swap two and the starter suddenly works but the lights don't or something like that you'll know).
Poke around and see what you can find. Unfortunately you can only diagnose it while the problem is happening.
Next see is power is getting to the starter relay. There should be a click here when the relay connects, although fainter than the solenoid. Turn the key and try to start, listening for the relays. Take off the seat so you can listen better, and touching the relays will let you feel the clicking.
And as always, the first step is tightening the battery connections, the primary battery ground (I think this cable goes to an engine bolt on the right side), the starter and solenoid connections, and making sure the battery is good and fully charged. Even thought this is a newer bike, the battery can still be bad through bad storeage, etc.
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The start relay is silent. Pulled the connector off the relay and reseated it - no good. Fuses good. Looked at clutch & side stand connections hoping to see something obvious - yeah, right. That's about all I had time for this evening, but later in the week I'll pull the relay connector and give it a proper cleaning. Thanks again for your help.
To add to what Sign216 said
Unplug the start relay with your Voltmeter or a test light plugged into the relay socket 1 & 2 you should see 12 Volts when you press start.
The relay coil will measure about 100 Ohms.
Measure the Voltage between fuse C and chassis should be 12 Volts and only drop 1/2 Volt with start.
Measure the Voltage at the spade connector on the solenoid with / without it connected to solenoid.
Does anything change on the dash at all?
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The start relay is silent. Pulled the connector off the relay and reseated it - no good. Fuses good. Looked at clutch & side stand connections hoping to see something obvious - yeah, right. That's about all I had time for this evening, but later in the week I'll pull the relay connector and give it a proper cleaning. Thanks again for your help.
To add to what Sign216 said
Unplug the start relay with your Voltmeter or a test light plugged into the relay socket 1 & 2 you should see 12 Volts when you press start.
The relay coil will measure about 100 Ohms.
Measure the Voltage between fuse C and chassis should be 12 Volts and only drop 1/2 Volt with start.
Measure the Voltage at the spade connector on the solenoid with / without it connected to solenoid.
I can't help but think that Sign is saying Relay and Geezer is thinking SOLENOID (the relay mounted piggyback on the starter and not the remote relay in the harness mounted under the tank).
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Kev M let me know the tests I proposed are not very practical on this bike with the relays under tank
I revised the list to more easily accessed points.
Measure the Voltage between fuse C and chassis should be 12 Volts and only drop 1/2 Volt with start.
(I suspect you may see a dip in Voltage here)
Measure the Voltage at the spade connector on the solenoid without it connected to solenoid.
(should be 12 Volts)
Measure it again with the spade terminal plugged onto the solenoid, a small wire jammed in with the connector may help.
Does anything change on the dash at all?
Report back. :thewife:
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The relays for the "new" 1 TB engine are under the gas tank? So...the air filter is now easier to reach, but the relays are not.
It's like two steps forward, one step back.
For those following the thread, the old 2 TB engine had relays right under the seat. Easy to examine. Perhaps Guzzi has greater confidence in relay longevity now.
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The relays for the "new" 1 TB engine are under the gas tank? So...the air filter is now easier to reach, but the relays are not.
It's like two steps forward, one step back.
For those following the thread, the old 2 TB engine had relays right under the seat. Easy to examine. Perhaps Guzzi has greater confidence in relay longevity now.
Nah, I would think it's clearly 2 steps forward.
The airbox is easy to reach, and you're expected to do that at each service, if only to inspect it.
The relays are relatively easy to reach, but you do have to unbolt and at least tilt the tank upward. Fine to swap or replace them, not so easy to test the harness.
But jebus, what should you be expected to do more often:
A. Check/replace the air filter
B. Check/replace a relay
C. Test the relay harness
I'm thinking Guzzi got their priorities straight on this.
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I'm thinking Guzzi got their priorities straight on this.
Anything that interferes with fixing a bike roadside, is incorrect engineering.
Think the gold standard; BMW airhead.
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Anything that interferes with fixing a bike roadside, is incorrect engineering.
Think the gold standard; BMW airhead.
That's a nice sound bite, but it's woefully too general and somewhat silly when you test it.
By that same argument most Ducatis or Harleys are superior to a BMW R-bike or Guzzi because their road side access to the clutch is so much easier.
The truth is you shouldn't HAVE to access a clutch anymore than a relay road side.
But if you DO need to access the relay, just tilt the frickin' tank, it's ONE ALLEN BOLT.
So what that you can't really stick your head under there too in order to see where you're probing with the DVOM YOU DON'T HAVE WITH YOU ANYWAY.
You can still stick your hand in there and swap the relays if you suspect one is bad.
More importantly, with this set-up you have better roadside ability to examine something like the motion of the throttle plate and how clear the intake tract is.
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I own an earlier model (2010 V7 Classic) and this happened to me several times. After a lot of trouble shooting, I discovered that the switch (the one when you pull the clutch that allows the power to pass to the starter was bad). I disconnected the cable that contains the switch button and PRESTO; the bike started. The switch is a button that engages/disengages when you pull or release the clutch. I never liked this feature anyway (having to pull the clutch to start the bike) so I removed the cable and have never had the problem occur again.
Worth unscrewing your cable from the clutch handle (if your bike has one like mine) to see if the bike will start with it unscrewed.
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That's a nice sound bite, but it's woefully too general and somewhat silly when you test it.
By that same argument most Ducatis or Harleys are superior to a BMW R-bike or Guzzi because their road side access to the clutch is so much easier.
Really? A clutch replacement isn't a normal roadside repair. When you've got a no-start situation, checking the relays is part of the steps.
When someone says a Ducati is a superior bike to an airhead BMW for owner repairs and roadside work, well,...do I need to say more?
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Really? A clutch replacement isn't a normal roadside repair. When you've got a no-start situation, checking the relays is part of the steps.
When someone says a Ducati is a superior bike to an airhead BMW for owner repairs and roadside work, well,...do I need to say more?
Although this has nothing to do with the OPs problem.. <thread drift alert> A friend that had an airhead and I on my bevel duck went to Daytona in the early 90s. He gave me a bad time, saying we'd be on the side of the road all the time. We were.. a fair amount.. but it was to tinker with his Beemer. :evil: :smiley: Electrical components *inside* the engine case? What were they thinking? :smiley: :boozing:
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Really? A clutch replacement isn't a normal roadside repair. When you've got a no-start situation, checking the relays is part of the steps.
When someone says a Ducati is a superior bike to an airhead BMW for owner repairs and roadside work, well,...do I need to say more?
My point is a clutch is about as likely to be necessary, meaning RARELY.
AND as for Duc vs Beemer, it was your ridiculous standard that have the ridiculous conclusion.
:evil:
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Thanks for the great ideas. As Kev said, this is the second time it's done this. The first time was 40 miles from home and, after a bit of fussing, it fixed itself (good bike). Also, after Kev's clarification, I realize I used the wrong terminology - in my previous post when I said start relay I should have said solenoid. I haven't checked the relays under the tank yet. Thanks to you guys, I have plenty of things to check. I'll let you know...
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Thanks for the great ideas. As Kev said, this is the second time it's done this. The first time was 40 miles from home and, after a bit of fussing, it fixed itself (good bike). Also, after Kev's clarification, I realize I used the wrong terminology - in my previous post when I said start relay I should have said solenoid. I haven't checked the relays under the tank yet. Thanks to you guys, I have plenty of things to check. I'll let you know...
Same thing happened to my 2013 V7. Look at the battery terminals. They may not be seated properly. The red rubber boot on one of the terminals was hiding a poorly seated connector on my bike. I suggest just removing the terminals and then reconnecting them securely before anything else.
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Although this has nothing to do with the OPs problem.. <thread drift alert> A friend that had an airhead and I on my bevel duck went to Daytona in the early 90s. He gave me a bad time, saying we'd be on the side of the road all the time. We were.. a fair amount.. but it was to tinker with his Beemer. :evil: :smiley: Electrical components *inside* the engine case? What were they thinking? :smiley: :boozing:
The alternator, diode board , and the ignition trigger (points or hall effect) would be the only electrical components behind a cover , which is held on by 3 bolts and takes about 2 minutes to remove . What was he tinkering with , did he think that's where the carburetors or spark plugs are on an airhead ??? :shocked: :evil:
Dusty
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Just because I did it twice this weekend (after 11k miles of ownership) you didn't perchance leave it in gear with the sidestand down?
Yep, that can happen.....Woops !
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I'm with Penderick - Sounds like a typical case of Startus Interuptus but what do I know?
Do you get a faint clicking noise in the relay area?
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif
Measure the Voltage, fuse C to chassis while trying to start.
Measure the Voltage on the purple wire at the starter solenoid to chassis while trying to start.
Measure the Voltage at the battery negative terminal (jamb probe into the post) to chassis while trying to start.
I don't know what you know Kiwi, but I'm guessing probably a fair bloody bit
Report back.
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The start circuit on these bikes (this applies to all the Guzzis I have seen) is really quite simple, lets start eliminating stuff.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif
Take about 3 feet of #16 or larger and prove the starter and battery are ok.
Unplug the purple wire off the solenoid (beside where the fat wire from battery connects). There is really no reason to pull the wire off but now there's no chance of
accidentally frying something elsewhere on the bike.
First make absolutely certain the bike is in neutral, we don't want to launch it down the road, you can pull the clutch in to make certain or have it on the center stand
so the back wheel is off the ground
With one end of the wire touching the spade connector poking from the solenoid touch the other end to the large terminal where the wire from battery connects or
to the battery terminal itself. You will probably get a small spark as you do this, make sure there is no gas around for obvious reasons.
Hopefully the starter will engage and spin the motor briskly proving beyond a doubt that the starter and battery are fine.
So now all you have to do is turn the key on and the bike will start and run.
To be continued.
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The start circuit on these bikes (this applies to all the Guzzis I have seen) is really quite simple, lets start eliminating stuff.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif
Take about 3 feet of #16 or larger and prove the starter and battery are ok.
Unplug the purple wire off the solenoid (beside where the fat wire from battery connects). There is really no reason to pull the wire off but now there's no chance of
accidentally frying something elsewhere on the bike.
First make absolutely certain the bike is in neutral, we don't want to launch it down the road, you can pull the clutch in to make certain or have it on the center stand
so the back wheel is off the ground
With one end of the wire touching the spade connector poking from the solenoid touch the other end to the large terminal where the wire from battery connects or
to the battery terminal itself. You will probably get a small spark as you do this, make sure there is no gas around for obvious reasons.
Hopefully the starter will engage and spin the motor briskly proving beyond a doubt that the starter and battery are fine.
So now all you have to do is turn the key on and the bike will start and run.
To be continued.
For those unfamiliar with this, Roy is basically using direct battery power (the heavy cable that goes from the battery to the starter circuit portion of the solenoid) to jump around the entire Starter Actuation (Starter Button) circuit.
I.E.
A relay (any relay) is basically a remote controlled switch. And the Starter Solenoid is just a big heavy relay that is (in most cases, including all modern Guzzis) mounted piggyback on the starter because it serves a second purpose of physically actuating the pinion drive, but that part isn't important right now.
Anyway a RELAY allows you to run a relatively small gauge activation circuit up to components like an ignition switch or starter button without having to run the BIG heavy gauge wiring from the battery, up to the switch, and down to the starter.
So you have two circuits on any relay.
1. The small Activation circuit. (starter button)
2. The large load Cranking main circuit. (starter power)
Basically the ACTIVATION circuit is what physically throws the switch (essentially just like when you turn on the lights at a wall switch of your house).
The small current from the starter button throws the Solenoid switch and connects the big heavy current from the battery directly to the starter which causes the Starter to Crank.
The activation circuit doesn't care where that 12 volts comes from.
So using Roy's test you completely bypass the ignition switch, fuse, starter relay, starter button etc. and just directly apply 12 volts (ironically from the large gauge starter circuit) to the activation circuit.
This should make the solenoid activate, throwing the switch on the big circuit, making the starter operate.
If it works in one fell swoop you've confirmed the Battery, Solenoid, and Starter are all good.
If Startus Interruptus (a problem with the activation circuit) EVER strikes anywhere (on the side of the road) you don't NEED to access the starter RELAY under the tank, all you have to do is jump between the starter ACTIVATION circuit on the solenoid and the main power supply to the solenoid and the bike will start. The traditional way to do this was with a large, thick screwdriver (with a wooden or plastic handle to isolate you from the current).
Make sense?
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So who cares where the silly relays are? You don't need them to start the bike. BMW airhead the gold standard? Perhaps 20 years ago. No ABS, traction control, EI, or FI. The V7II is the current gold standard, the airhead BMW should have made. Simple, basic, modern.
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BMW airhead the gold standard? Perhaps 20 years ago. No ABS, traction control, EI, or FI. The V7II is the current gold standard, the airhead BMW should have made. Simple, basic, modern.
Of course I was referring to 20 yrs ago (actually more like 40 yrs ago) . It's been that long since BMW made airheads, and is on their new path, for better or worse.
The new needless complexity of BMW is what switched me to Guzzi. The Guzzi 750 is a welcome throwback to old time cycles. Especially the pre-2013 bikes.
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Still not running, but maybe some progress:
Went from battery to solenoid - engine turns over
Removed fuel tank to access relays and connectors - start relay coil = 110 ohms.
Question - does removing the fuel tank disable the start circuit? That is, if everything was working correctly, with the fuel tank off, ignition on, push the start button - will the engine turn over?
Anyway, clutch switch, side stand switch, kill switch, all seem to be working ok - meter indicates they open and close with movement of the appropriate part. Not so with start button - indicates open circuit regardless of button pushed or not. Will pursue this next session.
On a different note, while tearing things apart, I noticed about a tablespoon of oil in the bottom of the air cleaner box. Element is dry. Seems like a strange place for oil. Any ideas?
As always, thanks for your help.
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Still not running, but maybe some progress:
Went from battery to solenoid - engine turns over
Removed fuel tank to access relays and connectors - start relay coil = 110 ohms.
Question - does removing the fuel tank disable the start circuit? That is, if everything was working correctly, with the fuel tank off, ignition on, push the start button - will the engine turn over?
Anyway, clutch switch, side stand switch, kill switch, all seem to be working ok - meter indicates they open and close with movement of the appropriate part. Not so with start button - indicates open circuit regardless of button pushed or not. Will pursue this next session.
On a different note, while tearing things apart, I noticed about a tablespoon of oil in the bottom of the air cleaner box. Element is dry. Seems like a strange place for oil. Any ideas?
As always, thanks for your help.
Just accumulation of oil mist, pulling the plastic plus off the end of the drain hose leading from the air box is a service requirement, if you look on the maintenance schedule, you'll see this mentioned.
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Sorry, plastic PLUG.
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Ok, now you have proven that the starter and battery are fine, let's see if the start relay is picking up.
Measure the Voltage at fuse C, usually there's a little bit of metal exposed at the back of the fuse, you may need to use a strand of
wire or something sharp to make contact. With the key On it should be alive and stay at 12 Volts when you press start.
If it goes from 12 to zero when you press start there's a bad connection upstream e.g. the key switch
Assuming you have steady 12 Volts at C
Pull the spade connector off the solenoid and measure for Voltage there, it may show up when you press start if there is a bad connection.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif
How accessible is the ECU? Terminal 10 with the Black Green wire should be at +12 Volts with key On, the computer pulls it to ground when start is pressed
depending on the status of the interlocks also Input 19 Sidestand and clutch switch (7) & (27) Actually it gets a bit tricky here as the instrument panel has to
be happy as well, the neutral switch (36) has something to so with that. I'm not sure why the oil pressure switch (35) goes to the ECU
The Start button goes to input 5, that should go to +12 when you press the button, I see you are looking at that anyway.
I'd like to think the factory put some sort of logic diagram in the manual to explain all the interlocks, anyone?
Be careful when probing the ECU not to short an input or output to chassis, I would use something like a 10k resistor in series with the voltmeter probe all
taped up to prevent an accidental short , or perhaps a 10k resistor in series with an LED.
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The problem was the starter button contacts. The starter button has always required a very firm push to start. Much more normal feeling now. I think there was something in there from the factory that finally got into a position to prevent the contacts from contacting. A little filing, contact cleaner and compressed air and it's better than new.
For those of you who haven't had to go into the starter switch:
when you split the switch housing horizontally and you look into the lower half (with the starter button in it), that little silver screw you see in there is holding the starter button in place. If you remove that screw you can push the starter button into the housing and then there is enough slack in the wires to bring up and out where you can work on it.
Thank you for all the ideas and inspiration - this forum is a great resource!
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To Kiwi_Roy: Your posts in this thread aggravated my ADD, couldn't finish a one, but props to you.
gorgegeezer, I'm sure it's exhilarating that it was something so simple, but maybe a bit frustrating too.....very glad it was an easy solution...I hate electricity and wiring. I could NEVER be an electrical engineer
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...I hate electricity and wiring. I could NEVER be an electrical engineer
So do most Electrical Engineers, they leave it to us Sparkies to troubleshoot.
I'm glad it turned out so simple, you learned out how to hot wire the starter along the way :thumb:
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George, well done!
Huzo, no drain plug on 1TB V7 airbox oil line. The box is set up to self drain through a check valve to the oil sump.
Some oil in the box is normal. After 10k miles I replaced my still dry air cleaner element and wiped the bottom of the box dry with a shop rag.
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George, well done!
Huzo, no drain plug on 1TB V7 airbox oil line. The box is set up to self drain through a check valve to the oil sump.
Some oil in the box is normal. After 10k miles I replaced my still dry air cleaner element and wiped the bottom of the box dry with a shop rag.
You're absolutely correct about no airbox drain plug, even though, amusingly, the service interval table in the owner's manual indicates that the "Filter box draining plug" should be cleaned every 10,000 km. Go figure.
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You're absolutely correct about no airbox drain plug, even though, amusingly, the service interval table in the owner's manual indicates that the "Filter box draining plug" should be cleaned every 10,000 km. Go figure.
Vestigial instruction? :grin:
Actually, I'm still a little confused by the system. The exploded view seems to shows each vapor hose attaching to its own nipple, each on one side of the airbox. Each seems to have some sort of filter element or separate chamber. Then each has a drain hose that runs back to a Y fitting and the sump.
Now that's fine. But when I opened the airbox for the first time finally this winter, it almost looked to me like the breather and drain hose from one side entered into the main chamber, and the other entered into a separate sealed chamber that I couldn't see or get to (without removing and maybe disassembling the box).
If that's what I saw I'm assuming that chamber isn't actually sealed and that the vapors can still get through to the main chamber.
Have you looked into this? Not important, just curious.
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Huzo, no drain plug on 1TB V7 airbox oil line. The box is set up to self drain through a check valve to the oil sump.
oh OK Kev, fair call, thanks mate
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Vestigial instruction? :grin:
Actually, I'm still a little confused by the system. The exploded view seems to shows each vapor hose attaching to its own nipple, each on one side of the airbox. Each seems to have some sort of filter element or separate chamber. Then each has a drain hose that runs back to a Y fitting and the sump.
Now that's fine. But when I opened the airbox for the first time finally this winter, it almost looked to me like the breather and drain hose from one side entered into the main chamber, and the other entered into a separate sealed chamber that I couldn't see or get to (without removing and maybe disassembling the box).
If that's what I saw I'm assuming that chamber isn't actually sealed and that the vapors can still get through to the main chamber.
Have you looked into this? Not important, just curious.
Clarification: the blow-by and oil return circuits are different on the 1TB V7 and V7II models, even though the oil separator/airbox unit is identical. On the V7 (not V7II), the blow-by tubes coming from the valve covers separately enter the oil separator which is molded into the front of the airbox. Re-condensed oil leaves the separator via two separate drain hoses (one on the right front of the oil separator and one on the front left side of the separator), which merge at a Y connector, then flows through a check valve and back into the crankcase. Any uncondensed vapors leaving the oil separator flow through a small (~1/4") hole between the oil separator and the airbox proper, where they mix with the main air stream and eventually enter the throttle body.
On the V7II, the blow-by tubes coming from the valve covers merge (apparently within a chamber in the top frame tube), and then a single hose carries the entire blow-by mix into the oil separator through the right side port that, in the V7, is one of the two drain ports used to carry the condensed oil back to the crankcase. (The ports on the oil separator that the blow-by hoses are connected to on the V7 are blocked with rubber nipples on the V7II). Finally, condensed oil leaves the oil separator via a single hose connected to the left side drain port of the oil separator, flows through the check valve and into the crankcase. Excess vapors are vented into the airbox proper exactly like on the V7.
Hope this helps.
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Thanks for that. The V7 explanation sounds like what I saw in the exploded view. I must have misidentified what I thought was the inside of one of the vapor hose nipples in the air box.