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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: mjptexas on September 03, 2016, 08:03:32 PM
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Great Hill Country ride today - Hwy 16 from San Saba to Bandera, Execpt,
#%€£*# Harley's! Only two I encountered going over 60 mph were on a trailer! And then they get upset when you pass half of them and cut into their nice little group.
Grrrrr...
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Great Hill Country ride today - Hwy 16 from San Saba to Bandera, Execpt,
#%��*# Harley's! Only two I encountered going over 60 mph were on a trailer! And then they get upset when you pass half of them and cut into their nice little group.
Grrrrr...
Group rides are a 'lowest common denominator' situation. They ride as poorly as the worst rider in the group, they have manners as bad as the worst mannered in the group, and they are as attentive to what's happening around them as the most distracted member of the group.
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Great Hill Country ride today - Hwy 16 from San Saba to Bandera, Execpt,
#%��*# Harley's! Only two I encountered going over 60 mph were on a trailer! And then they get upset when you pass half of them and cut into their nice little group.
Grrrrr...
What's the matter...? Didn't have enough nuts to get around them all...? :D Go big or stay on the porch there Bubba.
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What's the matter...? Didn't have enough nuts to get around them all...? :D Go big or stay on the porch there Bubba.
Well, he might have been on the Vespa - he didn't say!
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We stopped at a Wal-Mart fuel stop today with Luap's beautiful brand-new MGX and a group of those clowns didn't even have the good grace to walk 10 extra feet and compliment him...
For some of them it seems to be much more about the 'image' than motorcycles...sad :embarrassed:
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What's the matter...? Didn't have enough nuts to get around them all...? :D Go big or stay on the porch there Bubba.
First I thought "Hey, what an insult!" then I thought "That's a pretty good one!" then I thought "You know, that's true." Especially with an 8-valve, you can generally reach escape velocity on any reasonable stretch to get around them .... !
Lannis
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I have on occasion encountered the rolling road block. Everyone plodding along at 37 mph feet up on the highway pegs, smoking cigarettes and getting their Starbucks latte out of their LED laden screamin; eagle chrome cup holder while their stereo is blasting out some awful 80 crap rock. I have no issue running up through the pack passing whoever I can when safe and filling back in until the next passing opportunity.
The South Park episode is so true for the 90%+ of the Hardley riders:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGyKBFCd_u4
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I get your grrrr. Been there.
JMHO: when you encounter a group ride, either pass them all carefully or pull off for lunch. Been in group rides, we did not like to have a rider cut around us and tuck in when we were tight. With many gaps in the group, ok, just not when tight.
One time a ricki racer passed our group in a corner, we didn't mind it in a straight, not in a corner as you should work your way through as above. If we were all correct he ended up hitting a rock/boulder on the outside of a corner by being careless, we think while passing a car as one was stopped at the scene. Scene dig not look pretty.
I understand frustration!! Please be careful!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tom
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We stopped at a Wal-Mart fuel stop today with Luap's beautiful brand-new MGX and a group of those clowns didn't even have the good grace to walk 10 extra feet and compliment him...
For some of them it seems to be much more about the 'image' than motorcycles...sad :embarrassed:
Of course it might have been because Luap said in a stage voice , "hey , we ain't riding Harleys , we can't be stopping every 15 miles" :shocked: :laugh:
Dusty
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Can't help it. Parades are limited to 15 mph. :wink:
Another one.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/Masked%20Harley%20rider_zpstxiwug49.jpg)
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Great Hill Country ride today - Hwy 16 from San Saba to Bandera, Execpt,
#%��*# Harley's! Only two I encountered going over 60 mph were on a trailer! And then they get upset when you pass half of them and cut into their nice little group.
Grrrrr...
I really need to start riding with you guys. I ride with a great group of guys, but they're slow, stop often, and don't want to go very far.
I did a three day ride with them.
Day 1:200 mile ride from home to the hotel.
Day 2: Grand total 90 miles...90 miles!!!
Day 3: 200 mile ride home.
I can't handle all the excitement anymore!
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Like any other parade, just stop for lunch and let them go by. You can never win an argument with an idiot
anyway.
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Well, he might have been on the Vespa - he didn't say!
! That's good IT !
I blast past them often on my 650 Thumper.. they think, was that a dirt bike that just passed us?
(https://photos.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-rc2wGrG/0/L/Screen%20Shot%202016-09-03%20at%2010.32.25%20PM-L.png) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-rc2wGrG/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-WTC5znd/0/L/Screen%20Shot%202016-09-03%20at%2010.33.14%20PM-L.png) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-WTC5znd/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-shN4q4p/0/L/Screen%20Shot%202016-09-03%20at%2010.31.05%20PM-L.png) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-shN4q4p/A)
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I get your grrrr. Been there.
JMHO: when you encounter a group ride, either pass them all carefully or pull off for lunch. Been in group rides, we did not like to have a rider cut around us and tuck in when we were tight. With many gaps in the group, ok, just not when tight.
One time a ricki racer passed our group in a corner, we didn't mind it in a straight, not in a corner as you should work your way through as above. If we were all correct he ended up hitting a rock/boulder on the outside of a corner by being careless, we think while passing a car as one was stopped at the scene. Scene dig not look pretty.
I understand frustration!! Please be careful!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tom
You shouldn't be riding "tight". Give yourself some room as well as the folks trying to get around you. You're riding like an accident waiting to happen. Get a parade permit or ride properly so that traffic can navigate and everyone has enough room to be safe.
How dang hard is it to let someone into "your group" when he's trying to get around all of you ?
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Here's some food for thought: a month or two ago, three riders in one week were killed riding the tail of the dragon in three separate wrecks. You're thinking they were 20-year olds on hyper sports bikes, aren't you? Wrong. All three on Harleys, two on trikes.
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Been in group rides, we did not like to have a rider cut around us and tuck in when we were tight.
Why ride tight? I'm asking you because you said you were. It is an open question to anyone that can suggest a logical reason.
I've come upon a herd of Harleys riding a beautiful motorcycle road. Why do they always ride in large groups, way below the speed, and slow for every curve? Selfish inconsiderate jerks!
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And they hardly ever wave ..
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LowRyter, I'm not the best at getting across what I exactly want to type.
The groups I rode with back in the '70/'80s always tried to give room to those who wanted to carefully/ politely pass us on the highway or canyon. If you wanted to carelessly race your way through, then we couldn't help you safely get through.
Again, I get the Grrrr. But, I also understand there is more than me on the road. Now a days if I want to just cruise a road with the least traffic, I pick a day with the least traffic on that road.
Tom
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Why ride tight? I'm asking you because you said you were. It is an open question to anyone that can suggest a logical reason.
I've come upon a herd of Harleys riding a beautiful motorcycle road. Why do they always ride in large groups, way below the speed, and slow for every curve? Selfish inconsiderate jerks!
To start with see the first line of my last post.
That is a good question! Why did we ride tight side by side? Umm it does take some skill to do so. So does racing through a canyon corner solo. Riding that way was, Ummm, fun back in the day. When I rode back then with my now life long friend, we always rode side by side. Don't have a reason why, just we did.
Without starting an argument......Is the solo rider wanting to run fast down the road selfish? Is the group that wants to ride in a group selfish? We should all try to work with each other.
Ummmm...this is a subject that I would have liked to have talked about in a favorite watering hole. Typing just does not always convey what is intended to say or how it is meant to be said.
Tom
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I once made the mistake of going on a charity ride with a bunch of them...
I was on my CX500 as didn't have my Guzzi then. I hated how close they all rode, so I hung around at the back so I could have some stopping distance.
They would be doing 120 (KMH) on the straights, we came up to a 65k posted corner. The type I usually just feather the throttle for, and they all jump hard on the brakes! Glad for that stopping distance! I thought someone had binned it, nope... thats just what they do for corners. It was THE worst ride of my life.
After the 2nd to last stop we were headed up some of the best riding roads around here. So I gave them a 15 minute head start on the 30 minute ride. Still caught them 3/4 of the way around :thewife: Remember I was on a Honda CX500, not exactly a fast bike!
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I fart in their general direction. (http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/18/91/78/64/image12.gif)
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My my, such intolerance of folks who have a different riding style... :grin:
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I really need to start riding with you guys. I ride with a great group of guys, but they're slow, stop often, and don't want to go very far.
I did a three day ride with them.
Day 1:200 mile ride from home to the hotel.
Day 2: Grand total 90 miles...90 miles!!!
Day 3: 200 mile ride home.
I can't handle all the excitement anymore!
Next time they asked me to go riding I'd decline.
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Since we're all trying to work with each other.........
How about you group ride participants pass the word to ride iinstead of one big pack ride in several small packs with space enough between for those going over 50 mph to pass!!!
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LowRyter, I'm not the best at getting across what I exactly want to type.
The groups I rode with back in the '70/'80s always tried to give room to those who wanted to carefully/ politely pass us on the highway or canyon. If you wanted to carelessly race your way through, then we couldn't help you safely get through.
Again, I get the Grrrr. But, I also understand there is more than me on the road. Now a days if I want to just cruise a road with the least traffic, I pick a day with the least traffic on that road.
Tom
sorry, but I don't understand you.
whether you felt someone was racing or not, it's just courteous to watch your mirrors and let folks in to pass you. And it's safety foremost.
Further, you have a greater responsibility to do so when you are in a large group of riders causing congestion knowing that you are impeding traffic. And you should never ride "tight".
The only exception is having a parade permit.
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That is a good question! Why did we ride tight side by side? Umm it does take some skill to do so.
I can't think of anything more unsafe than 2 bikes riding side by side.
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Quote from Stevex:
I can't think of anything more unsafe than 2 bikes riding side by side.
Some years back watched two Wichita motor officers riding side by side on a downtown street. Approaching a stop light they bumped, with one almost going down but he caught it. Guess it is suppose to look cool.
GliderJohn
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I think there are a lot of gray areas that are being passed over in this discussion.
What's more unsafe, riding side by side or high above the speed limit?
What's more selfish, 20 people riding tight at the speed limit on a one lane road or one guy who wants to exceed the speed limit feeling he has the right to pass them, and maybe not in a passing zone, or maybe at again a very high rate of speed?
I don't like being caught behind a row of vehicles going slower than me, but sometimes that's just life and unless they're going much lower than the speed limit (like low enough to statutorily require 4-ways) then they might be in the right both legally and morally. At the same time I'd always go out of my way to help/let someone pass, unless they're being a jerk to begin with.
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I think there are a lot of gray areas that are being passed over in this discussion.
And here's one more. We keep saying "Harleys" when there's no way we looked to see what brand all the bikes were that we are weaving behind, trying to keep up enough speed to keep from falling over.
In the last "group ride" I talked about, with 20 guys all wearing the Outlaw Non-Conformist Rebel Required Standard Uniform, only half the bikes were actual Harley Davidsons.
The rest were clones designed to LOOK LIKE Harley Davidsons at 50 - 70% of the entry cost, along with a couple Indians.
So maybe, instead of using Harley as a generic term for a slow V-twin cruiser, like we use Kleenex for blowing our nose even if it's Puffs, or Xerox for a copier even if it's a Ricoh, we should say "Cruiser" for the slow parade bikes, in recognition that very many of them are not Harleys? That'll get us away from accusations of "Harley Hating" too, while we're at it.
People do the same for "Ninja" even though that's another story ......
Lannis
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Never really bothered me what other riders do, or don't do. I'm busy enjoying myself. Try it
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Never really bothered me what other riders do, or don't do. I'm busy enjoying myself. Try it
I do try it. You're on a beautiful twisty road in the countryside, busy enjoying yourself; the road is good for a steady 60 MPH, laying it well over in the curves, just holding your speed doing down the straight stretches.
You come up behind a line of bikes. They're running 50 MPH on the straight stretches. When they see anything that looks like a curve, they stomp the brakes and slow down to about 25 or 30 MPH. When they finally come out of the curve and see that the road is straight, MY what a roaring of open drag pipes, and waving of leather fringe as they accelerate madly back up to 50 or 55 before repeating the same procedure 50 more times, while you yawn and wait for the chance to pass ....
Is sitting behind these guys "Busy Having Fun" to you? It's not to me. For a few minutes, I have the job of setting up for a pass and then taking it, finding in the meanwhile that getting around either (A) The incompetent ones that are wobbling all over the road or (B) the batards that "don't want you to" pass them because that emasculates them, isn't easy or "fun".
Do you really just sit back and idle for however many miles it is to the next bar? Maybe so; "fun" is different things to different people.
Lannis
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I do try it. You're on a beautiful twisty road in the countryside, busy enjoying yourself; the road is good for a steady 60 MPH, laying it well over in the curves, just holding your speed doing down the straight stretches.
You come up behind a line of bikes. They're running 50 MPH on the straight stretches. When they see anything that looks like a curve, they stomp the brakes and slow down to about 25 or 30 MPH. When they finally come out of the curve and see that the road is straight, MY what a roaring of open drag pipes, and waving of leather fringe as they accelerate madly back up to 50 or 55 before repeating the same procedure 50 more times, while you yawn and wait for the chance to pass ....
Is sitting behind these guys "Busy Having Fun" to you? It's not to me. For a few minutes, I have the job of setting up for a pass and then taking it, finding in the meanwhile that getting around either (A) The incompetent ones that are wobbling all over the road or (B) the batards that "don't want you to" pass them because that emasculates them, isn't easy or "fun".
Do you really just sit back and idle for however many miles it is to the next bar? Maybe so; "fun" is different things to different people.
Lannis
no, I let thinking about that screw up my day.
Take a side road, you might find an interesting site, or a beautiful view. Beats the heck out of swearing inside your helmet
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I pass when safe to do so.
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And here's one more. We keep saying "Harleys" when there's no way we looked to see what brand all the bikes were that we are weaving behind, trying to keep up enough speed to keep from falling over. That'll get us away from accusations of "Harley Hating" too, while we're at it.
People do the same for "Ninja" even though that's another story ......
Lannis
It's not isolated to Harleys,..
I got a real Amish/ mennonite road hogging problem here in southern maryland!!
I live in a rural areal with most roads small with turns and bends with few places tp pass without crossing a double yellow.
The farmers pull over when traffic begins to back up. The school busses pull over and let a string of back ups pass. The Amish? no way buddy! cilp clop, clip clop, at 10 mph with their smug little offspring staring back at the cars with glee! Will they pull over?? not likely!
Mostly kidding about this but I encounter this frequently. True no one HAS to let traffic pass, but some folks understand and pull over if bogging the flow. OK I'm done :laugh:
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Enjoyable rant I love it. Nothing like driving 800 miles from Florida to reach some beautiful twisty roads then encounter a herd poking along at 40 MPH. In some cases its impossible to pass.
Bill
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If it's impossible to pass then you shouldn't. You might want to take a break and pull over.
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If it's impossible to pass then you shouldn't. You might want to take a break and pull over.
I agree, depending...If there's a double yellow? you "shouldn't cross it". If it's the third cycle of an intersection stop light and it has yet to recognize you are there, and the ONLY one there for the entire three cycles. Then sit there till another vehicle (at 3am) comes and triggers the signal. There are Ideals and safe and proper ones, ...alway wear a helmet? don't run with scissors,and such, yet Getting along and being rational and considerate is something most of us, well i'm speaking only for me, really..have trouble doing, consistently. Honestly If someones on my rear and it is safe for me to pull aside, I will. I sometimes back the traffic behind me because I am maintaining the speed limit, sometimes I go 20 mph over the limit....all depends and Ranting about it all,makes for filling in a dull Sunday afternoon typing ,instead of ,..riding,..most enjoyable, The rant is my favorite!! OK I'm done.......
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no, I let thinking about that screw up my day.
Take a side road, you might find an interesting site, or a beautiful view. Beats the heck out of swearing inside your helmet
Or you can get it out of your system by talking it on WildGuzzi. That's what I do.
Lannis
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Had an interesting discussion with a couple of riders involved in a large group ride . Both were relative newcomers to motorbiking , and admitted to not being very good riders . I asked them if they had taken a beginners course , both stated that "no , we are learning to ride in the group , and felt safer surrounded by other more "experienced" riders . Honestly , it seems that some times we are dealing with the same herd mentality that elephants display when a young unsteady calf is trying to keep up with the herd . Instead of one or two females staying behind to protect the baby , the entire herd stays with the "beginner" .
Dusty
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I no longer have a BMW but still am a member of the local BMW club. They are a decent bunch and I enjoy their company. They are also the only local group that actually meets and talks about bikes without much stigma against other brands. The president had a Multistrada! I went on one after-meeting group ride. Never again. It's all the negatives mentioned above, plus the problems with getting a congo line of bikes through stoplights and everyone stopping because one guy needs gas...and soon thereafter another stop because one person has to pee. Too much like hearding cats.
Once, on a solo cross country trip, I stopped in a visitors center to get a map of the new state. The elderly gentleman manning the map desk asked how many were in my party. I replied "One". His comment still rings true "Ah, the perfect number of traveling companions."
Peter Y.
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I always yield to overtaking traffic. That said, on the Guzzi I'm happiest at about 10 knots north of traffic speed. This means that in fun rides on two-lane mountain roads, I often come up behind knots of slower traffic. Usually I get to pass as soon as the yellow line breaks up. If traffic is lined up behind a slow truck, I'll pull over and wait a bit.
Two weekends ago I did a fun solo loop north along the Peak-to-Peak and down Colo 7 to Lyons -- a wonderfully sinuous downhill with some tight turns where the river has undercut the cliffs. Came up behind a couple of fast red sports cars and was happy following them -- until they arrived at the back of a pack of bikers following a painfully slow CanAm Spyder. The Spyder guy took occupancy of the center of the lane for 10 miles, all the way into town. I could have pulled over to wait but I expected the crowd to pass him. No one even tried. I threaded my way forward through the pack. There were cruisers and adventure bikes. No one checking their mirrors. Especially not the Spyderman.
I never did get by him. He motored into Lyons consistently 5mph below the posted limit.
State law says if you're holding up more than three vehicles you're required to pull over. I'm not aware that it's ever been enforced. It's not even posted.
I don't have a point. Just venting.
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The Spyder operator would have been ticketed in WA or ID. What an idiot.
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What's the matter...? Didn't have enough nuts to get around them all...? :D Go big or stay on the porch there Bubba.
Not many straight sections for a long pass. :undecided:
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I get your grrrr. Been there.
JMHO: when you encounter a group ride, either pass them all carefully or pull off for lunch...
unfortunately on this particular road that would simply mean another half dozen packs getting in front of you.
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I really need to start riding with you guys. I ride with a great group of guys, but they're slow, stop often, and don't want to go very far....
There is a small group of us in Austin that ride regularly, usually no more than five at a time. Eclectic group - 3 BMWs, 2 Moto Guzzis, a Triumph and a Kawasaki. Typical one day weekend ride is around 200 miles, give or take. Group runs at the speed limit to +10 mph, depending on the road. What makes this group work is we know what to expect from each other, and, no one is chronically predisposed to doing really stupid things.
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We stopped at a Wal-Mart fuel stop today with Luap's beautiful brand-new MGX and a group of those clowns didn't even have the good grace to walk 10 extra feet and compliment him...
For some of them it seems to be much more about the 'image' than motorcycles...sad :embarrassed:
In rural Texas people would regularly ask me 'What kind of bike is that?' I'd say 'Moto Guzzi'. All too often the response was 'Who makes it?' Finally I just started saying I was riding an experimental Harley with the engine installed sideways...
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I think there are a lot of gray areas that are being passed over in this discussion.
What's more unsafe, riding side by side or high above the speed limit?
Equally dangerous, unless you are riding side by side high above the speed limit :bike-037:
What's more selfish, 20 people riding tight at the speed limit on a one lane road....
I'm actually pretty tolerant of anyone traveling at or close to the limit. It's the 50mph in a 65mph that tries my patience.
I don't like being caught behind a row of vehicles going slower than me, but sometimes that's just life and unless they're going much lower than the speed limit..
Yep. On of my regular access roads to great Hill Country riding is a prime example. Some days I ride the full 35 miles with nary a car. Other days I'll come up on an endless caravan running 15 mph under the limit. In those cases I just sit back and take it.
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And here's one more. We keep saying "Harleys" when there's no way we looked to see what brand all the bikes were that we are weaving behind, trying to keep up enough speed to keep from falling over.
Nope. I'm talking Harleys. Pretty easy to pick out a Harley from behind. Not saying the Metric Cruiser guys don't do the same thing, but I just don't see that many of them on the road in these situations. (Maybe they ride at the speed limit?)
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Mike , in all fairness to the Harley riders Two Wings is referring to not asking about Luap's new X21, well , if TW hadn't flipped them off as we were entering the station :laugh:
Dusty
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....You come up behind a line of bikes. They're running 50 MPH on the straight stretches. When they see anything that looks like a curve, they stomp the brakes and slow down to about 25 or 30 MPH. When they finally come out of the curve and see that the road is straight, MY what a roaring of open drag pipes, and waving of leather fringe as they accelerate madly back up to 50 or 55 before repeating the same procedure 50 more times, while you yawn and wait for the chance to pass ....
Is sitting behind these guys "Busy Having Fun" to you? It's not to me. For a few minutes, I have the job of setting up for a pass and then taking it, finding in the meanwhile that getting around either (A) The incompetent ones that are wobbling all over the road or (B) the batards that "don't want you to" pass them because that emasculates them, isn't easy or "fun".
Do you really just sit back and idle for however many miles it is to the next bar? Maybe so; "fun" is different things to different people.
Lannis
:1:
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Mike , in all fairness to the Harley riders Two Wings is referring to not asking about Luap's new X21, well , if TW hadn't flipped them off as we were entering the station :laugh:
Dusty
Hell, Two Wings was just communicating in a language they understand.
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Hell, Two Wings was just communicating in a language they understand.
In case you missed it earlier , the boss also said in a loud voice , "we ain't ridin' Harleys , we can't be stopping every 20 miles" :shocked: :laugh:
Dusty
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Harley riders are natural leaders.
Don't believe me?
Just look who's at the front of any long line of slow traffic. :evil:
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It's not isolated to Harleys,..
I got a real Amish/ mennonite road hogging problem here in southern maryland!!
I live in a rural areal with most roads small with turns and bends with few places tp pass without crossing a double yellow.
The farmers pull over when traffic begins to back up. The school busses pull over and let a string of back ups pass. The Amish? no way buddy! cilp clop, clip clop, at 10 mph with their smug little offspring staring back at the cars with glee! Will they pull over?? not likely!
Mostly kidding about this but I encounter this frequently. True no one HAS to let traffic pass, but some folks understand and pull over if bogging the flow. OK I'm done :laugh:
A few weeks ago I got behind some old farts in their Model A Fords. Those bastages just wouldn't pull over and let me pass even though they were only going 45 in a 55 zone. You know you're going slow when someone in a (normally aspirated) Mercedes 300CD wants to pass! :laugh: :laugh:
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I remember riding at the Sturgis Rally back in 2000. I was riding up 385 going from Custer to Sturgis with a huge line of slow moving motorcycles (Harleys) being held up my an RV. Then I saw them make a corner at the top of the hill and the RVs were being held up by a longer line of Harleys. I am talking dozens of motorcycles going 15-20 under the limit.
I don't get it.
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I have on occasion encountered the rolling road block. Everyone plodding along at 37 mph feet up on the highway pegs, smoking cigarettes and getting their Starbucks latte out of their LED laden screamin; eagle chrome cup holder while their stereo is blasting out some awful 80 crap rock. I have no issue running up through the pack passing whoever I can when safe and filling back in until the next passing opportunity.
The South Park episode is so true for the 90%+ of the Hardley riders:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGyKBFCd_u4
Me too, assuming I have enough oomph to leave them behind if needed. :smiley: Which I have had to do on occasion if they think they own the road. Many times they all have to pull over for more gas before I do. :grin:
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The Spyder operator would have been ticketed in WA or ID. What an idiot.
Or Cal. if caught doing that. Holding up 2 lane traffic for any reason is an automatic ticket there no matter what your vehicle is.
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I remember riding at the Sturgis Rally back in 2000. I was riding up 385 going from Custer to Sturgis with a huge line of slow moving motorcycles (Harleys) being held up my an RV. Then I saw them make a corner at the top of the hill and the RVs were being held up by a longer line of Harleys. I am talking dozens of motorcycles going 15-20 under the limit.
I don't get it.
They get a buzz from being anti social and are daring you to " do something about it", I'm reminded of the lion in the Wizard of Oz, "What's it to ya", answering the question that no one asked.
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I remember riding at the Sturgis Rally back in 2000. I was riding up 385 going from Custer to Sturgis with a huge line of slow moving motorcycles (Harleys) being held up my an RV. Then I saw them make a corner at the top of the hill and the RVs were being held up by a longer line of Harleys. I am talking dozens of motorcycles going 15-20 under the limit.
I don't get it.
Posing is a time-consuming pastime.
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You guys go on ahead...I'm gonna hang back and let 'one or two females' take care of I mean, 'protect' me... :grin:
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In my 64 years I've owned or at least experienced the ride of most every bike that has been brought to the US and enjoyed every one of them. I have my second MOTO GUZZI coming from ID now. The Guzzi is just an unique motorcycle that is a pleasure to own.
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I get your grrrr. Been there.
JMHO: when you encounter a group ride, either pass them all carefully or pull off for lunch. Been in group rides, we did not like to have a rider cut around us and tuck in when we were tight. With many gaps in the group, ok, just not when tight.
One time a ricki racer passed our group in a corner, we didn't mind it in a straight, not in a corner as you should work your way through as above. If we were all correct he ended up hitting a rock/boulder on the outside of a corner by being careless, we think while passing a car as one was stopped at the scene. Scene dig not look pretty.
I understand frustration!! Please be careful!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tom
First off, group rides do not own the road. They should not ride tight and un-passable. This is just plain rude and boorish. Even by rules of the road large groups without a parade permit are required to have breaks to allow people to pass. If you group as a rolling road block you are creating the problem and should expect people to pass as necessary to get by you. Not everyone on the road has your agenda or schedule.
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Round here, most of the HD females look like Buffarillas. There isn't enough booze OR Viagra. No thanks.
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Isn't the double line in the center of the road a tire guide?
I thought that was the secure passing lane to go past all slow moving vehicles?
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There sure is a lot of animosity directed at Harleys and Harley riders on this forum. In 30+ years of riding Japanese and Italian bikes I have never experienced any hostility from Harley riders. Just this past Sunday I was stopped at a rest area and two Harley guys came over to ask a bunch of questions about and compliment my Ducati. Nothing could be further from a Harley than that bike. I must have passed a thousand Harleys on this busy weekend at a great motorcycle destination. Probably 90% of the bikes I saw were American iron. No issues and plenty of friendly waves. Sure I had to pass a few slow groups on the twisty roads, but I just waited for a safe opening. I don't fault cruisers for not being able to maintain a sporty pace. It's just a different style of riding.
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What?! We're talking now about those smug, oblivious, and really SLOW jerks, up ahead, slowing down traffic and spoiling my adventure?!
Well, when I catch up to the buggas, (http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/rant_zps4zsg0x0u.gif) don't really matter what their riding, I like to imagine ....
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/kicked%20out_zpsuldre6zv.jpg)
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Again, I get the Grrrr. But, I also understand there is more than me on the road. Now a days if I want to just cruise a road with the least traffic, I pick a day with the least traffic on that road.
Tom
Tom, I'm not trying to alienate you and I appreciate your restraint throughout this discussion...BUT: why on earth would a motorcyclist choose a beautiful and remote place to ride and then organize 30 or 40 of their friends to do it with them? It just seems counter to the whole idea of "getting away." Hey...I tried it once with a group of co-workers in East Tennessee. By the time the day was done, two riders were in the hospital and I depleted nearly my entire toolkit of tie-wire and zip-ties fixing Sportsters that had vibrated loose one critical assembly or another (they were both pre-rubber mount, Kev). That was enough for me...group rides are now 3 or less with people I trust.
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There sure is a lot of animosity directed at Harleys and Harley riders on this forum. In 30+ years of riding Japanese and Italian bikes I have never experienced any hostility from Harley riders. Just this past Sunday I was stopped at a rest area and two Harley guys came over to ask a bunch of questions about and compliment my Ducati. Nothing could be further from a Harley than that bike. I must have passed a thousand Harleys on this busy weekend at a great motorcycle destination. Probably 90% of the bikes I saw were American iron. No issues and plenty of friendly waves. Sure I had to pass a few slow groups on the twisty roads, but I just waited for a safe opening. I don't fault cruisers for not being able to maintain a sporty pace. It's just a different style of riding.
Two things - I really think (as I said above) that the word "Harley" is being used like the word "Kleenex" - to indicate any kind of cruiser, so I don't believe that anyone is really slamming Harley-Davidson as a "brand", but don't like "Slow Cruisers" as a road barrier.
Second, it's not just a "style of riding" that's generally objected to. It's common disregard for manners and civility on the highway. People can ride slow all they want to, but when big packs of them knowingly and uncaringly mess up OTHER PEOPLE's riding experience, that's not very good in anyone's book.
I have a particular concern about losing my "situational awareness" as I get older. I don't want to be like my great-uncle, shuffling into a busy room, then standing right there in the doorway peering around, blocking everyone else's entrance and exit, and either not knowing or caring that other people would like to move too ....
Lannis
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This isn't purely a motorcycling phenomenon. I see a general degradation of spatial politesse among certain demographics, amounting to a kind of entitlement or arrogance: people who feel they have the right to stop and chat at the entrance (or exit!) of escalators, skiers and snowboarders who think it's proper to stop to socialize in the middle of a narrow trail, folks compelled to gossip with the barista while eight or ten coffee-deprived customers fume in line. The willingness of parents to complete the toilet-training process into adolescence is fading. In my winter job I'm sorry to report that many wealthy visitors to ski resorts are oblivious to traffic patterns.
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How many riders have verified their speedometers? I know that my 97 Cali 1100i reads 8 MPH fast, and my Harley reads 5 MPH fast. So if I'm doing the speed limit as indicated on my speedo, I am actually running slower than posted.
Now, on a group ride, with newer riders, less experienced (however one wants to say it), I have ridden ahead to show them the lines through corners, etc.
Then there are folks who feel that every road is their personal race track and expect all others to get out of their way.
There are time when I can ride faster than others, and I make a decision then. Sometimes I want to look at something other than the apex.
So sorry that everyone else is not on your same schedule and knew to get the hell outta your way.
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Had an interesting discussion with a couple of riders involved in a large group ride . Both were relative newcomers to motorbiking , and admitted to not being very good riders . I asked them if they had taken a beginners course , both stated that "no , we are learning to ride in the group , and felt safer surrounded by other more "experienced" riders . Honestly , it seems that some times we are dealing with the same herd mentality that elephants display when a young unsteady calf is trying to keep up with the herd . Instead of one or two females staying behind to protect the baby , the entire herd stays with the "beginner" .
Dusty
That never would have crossed my mind. Very interesting if true. I'm assuming the belief is incorrect that surrounding the novice is protective. But by putting your finger on the belief, there might be a better solution to offer. The 'one or two adults staying behind to protect and teach the youngster' model would seem a lot safer than to embed the novice in the middle of a pack where any contact could result in a big problem, let alone slowing down the whole group.
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How many riders have verified their speedometers? I know that my 97 Cali 1100i reads 8 MPH fast, and my Harley reads 5 MPH fast. So if I'm doing the speed limit as indicated on my speedo, I am actually running slower than posted.
Now, on a group ride, with newer riders, less experienced (however one wants to say it), I have ridden ahead to show them the lines through corners, etc.
Then there are folks who feel that every road is their personal race track and expect all others to get out of their way.
There are time when I can ride faster than others, and I make a decision then. Sometimes I want to look at something other than the apex.
So sorry that everyone else is not on your same schedule and knew to get the hell outta your way.
it's not about getting the hell outta the way. It's blocking the road so those of us that want to pass them and get in & around these groups. They can at least leave enough room so that cars and bikes and pass a few of them at a time.
I know when I ride with sports riders, the Spine Frame Raid, Ozark RAT Raid, there are maybe 18 riders but we leave room and break in smaller groups for faster and slower riders.
otherwise, they need to get a parade permit!
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That never would have crossed my mind. Very interesting if true. I'm assuming the belief is incorrect that surrounding the novice is protective. But by putting your finger on the belief, there might be a better solution to offer. The 'one or two adults staying behind to protect and teach the youngster' model would seem a lot safer than to embed the novice in the middle of a pack where any contact could result in a big problem, let alone slowing down the whole group.
Nic , yes it is an incorrect belief , but very common . I've actually posed the question more than once and received similar answers . There is a social aspect to motorcycling , even for those of us who only ride alone or in small groups , W/O the social aspect we would not have Guzzi gatherings. Probably some peer pressure involved here also , be a part of the pack , or be cast
out . My only problem with slower riders is when they bunch up preventing other road users to pass . Maybe some education is needed , dunno .
Dusty
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+1
Go slow if you want to. Nobody has a problem with that. Just don't try and prevent anyone else from getting past you.
I can imagine your long line of cruisers would be plenty upset if they came up behind a cavalcade of 40 hay wagons travelling 15mph nose to tail and crowding the center-line. I bet your group would not passively hang behind them for miles.
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I rode along with a Harley group one time several years back, but I was on my '66 Beemer. Being a new guy, invited by a friend with a Harley and not having a Harley myself, I politely lined up at the very back of the group. Was ok for a while, but geez, it's like following a bunch of soccer moms in their suvs, chatting on cell phones.
Part of the ride took us down Rt77 through the Catoctin mountains where there are several sets of nice twisties. Although I didn't try, it would have been a simple effort to pass them all, in the turns, on my antique bike with skinny period correct tires. Of course the old Beemers are reasonably nimble in the turns, but one can't lean too far or you start dragging bits. Usually my boot is the first to hit.
It does seem to be the American way though. Cars or bikes, most people here like big, obnoxious land yachts, and if they go fast at all, it will be in a straight line. But give them a set of turns? Oh no! That takes concentration and skill. For me, turns are what driving and riding are really all about. Guess that's why I was attracted to Guzzis.
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I have ridden with quite a few groups, and perhaps the best was a veterans group. They would put a pair of leaders out and the new guys went right behind them to set the pace. Part of the leaders job was to pay attention and not pull the new guys too hard.
The other thing they did was to ride in groups of six with a couple car lengths between groups. That seemed to work well and faster drivers seemed willing to filter through a group or two at a time without creating drama.
They also had a pre-ride briefing explaining all this before the ride started so everyone was on the same page.
Some of the sportier riders waited at the departure point and gave the group a 20 minute head start. I suppose that is another way of doing things.
It's all in how you ride, and exhibiting respect and courtesy in the ride goes a long way toward reducing stress.
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I really got a laugh from the posts that said things like, "Those that impede traffic would get a ticket from where I come from."
I'd like to see how many tickets in the USA have been issued to riders in a herd that impeded traffic on a mountain road. Others suggested pulling over. Many favorite mountain roads I frequent don't have pull offs for many, many miles. So you just have to suck it up. Swearing seems to help. Reading this rant thread helps too. LOL
Bill
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Agreed, sharing the road can sometimes be a challenge.
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Well... there is the story my trooper buddy tells where another trooper working up by Miami Oklahoma pulled a large group of cruiser bikes over and asked them if they were a funeral procession, explaining that only funeral processions traveled that slow :laugh:
Dusty
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Appropriate sticker .....
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/slow_drivers_in_the_left_lane_will_be_goosed_bumper_sticker-_zpsoxeb0zfb.jpg)
Honk Honk :boozing:
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And also, some seasoned riders with their new bikes, (not yet paid for), cant go fast because the wind resistance of their dealer-added accessories will surely overtax their modern drive train. Flags and mirrors can be real threats to your new warranty these days. :wink:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/mirrors_zpsxftjuz7e.jpg)
Looking for trouble.
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And also, some seasoned riders with their new bikes, (not yet paid for), cant go fast because the wind resistance of their dealer-added accessories will surely overtax their modern drive train. Flags and mirrors can be real threats to your new warranty these days.
Question is whether he ever looks in those mirrors.
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Question is whether he ever looks in those mirrors.
Sort of like Lone Watie's piece of rock candy. It's not for eatin', it's for looking through .....
And those mirrors aren't for looking into .... !
Lannis
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Since the other half of my traveling is pulling a largish RV....this isn't just some motorcycle groups. It applies to car drivers, RV's, and just about any other conveyance.
And not just driving but in everyday life.
This isn't purely a motorcycling phenomenon. I see a general degradation of spatial politesse among certain demographics, amounting to a kind of entitlement or arrogance: people who feel they have the right to stop and chat at the entrance (or exit!) of escalators, skiers and snowboarders who think it's proper to stop to socialize in the middle of a narrow trail, folks compelled to gossip with the barista while eight or ten coffee-deprived customers fume in line. The willingness of parents to complete the toilet-training process into adolescence is fading. In my winter job I'm sorry to report that many wealthy visitors to ski resorts are oblivious to traffic patterns.
My mother is one of those oblivious to others around her. Don't know why, she just is. When asked about it she is clueless, as in she didn't notice anyone around her. My wife's grandmother was not clueless, just a b****. Her attitude was that she had just as much right to block traffic (or a line or anything else) as you did to be there and she'd take as much time as she wanted.
I see it in people of all ages, races, wealth, areas of country.
Then, we end up in someplace like Nashville, during rush hour, in the dark and rain, pulling a trailer and needing to cross 4 lanes of bumper to bumper traffic to make an exit. Turn on a turn signal and the drivers politely leave me a nice gap to move over, sometimes even blocking a lane so I can move in there.
And, yes, I've had groups of HD riders wave me to pass them and give me space when needed.
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:popcorn: Yeah, I hate to come up on any group. I've mostly ridden alone or in small groups of 2-3 riders who ride as well or better than I do. Over the years I have come on Groups of Hardleys, or Goldwings with Trailers . Sometimes if on a 2 lane road, if I come up on one I will 'flash to pass' and watch what the rear guys do. Some ignore and you can see the group tighten, some will create a gap for you, wave you on or make it clear it is cool to pass.
If it is one that would take more than 2-3 series of passing and entering the group, I wont even bother and will divert, or pull off for lunch. It's just not worth the danger of intruding in a large group. I HATE getting caught up in a gaggle of bikes.... You havent lived until you get stuck on the Blue Ridge Parkway behind 30 Goldwings..... I dont know about anyone else, but I DONT like to ride and dont enjoy clogged roads. I'd rather do something else....
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I appear to have stepped in a pile of doo doo that I did not intend to.
I am not the best typist to convey my thoughts. I did mention this already.
I posted a reply message as to what I was trying to say. But since then I have been quoted. So.. Here I go Again! Hell with typos!
My "Group" experiance was in the late '70- early '90. Back in the day 55mph was the national speed limit except for a very few states.
The "groups" I rode with varied form Independents to Outlaws. Rode My Eldo through those years for the most part. If not Eldo it was Ambo on ocasion (ambo was too slow to keep up for the most part).
On the highway we rode in pretty tight groups. In the canyons the groups were a bit loose as some wanted to go fast and some relatively slow. In either case we never doddled along. We were not the fastest in the twisties, but we were going down the highway at 70mph+. Now 70+ seems slow as the limit in my state is again 65mph.
Have you ever run a '72 eldo police at 70 on a Cali freeway??? With the grooves?? Never thought a bike could not wiggle down the grooves until my '04 EV.
So... In the canyons, if someone wanted to pass, we were happy to let them by. Just come up to the last bike, let that bike know your there, and we were glad to let you "CAREFULLY' work your way through giving room as needed. My example was an umm..umm. *hole that wouldn't wait for a place to pass. He had to do it where ever he wanted to . Straits or curves. Scared most of us as we did not know he was coming. UMM...While your riding solo through your favorite twisties at your best speed. Would YOU rather have a faster bike come up and let you know they want by?? Or have that bike blast past you in a corner an inch off your bar MGP style and nearly wreck you??
So on the highway. We usually ran 65-70mph side by side. We had rode with each other for some time. We pretty much knew what the rider up front was thinking. We ALL watched the road ahead, to the side and behind.
When a car/bike needed to move through our group for an offramp or the like, we gave room. Maybe back in those days people gave a **it about other people. Maybe this is different now with group riders. I have not rode in a "group" since the '90's to know. Maybe the "groups" don't give a **it anymore???
So I ride the freeways mainly solo now. I DO hate it when some *hole is running the crud pool lane at an excessively slow speed. I also hate it when there is a road block of cars in all lanes that just won't run at least the 65mph sped limit. With my EV, 75mph is easy, my Eldo 70 is about cruising tops. If I'm not going fast enough i get out of the way. Why can't others do the same and let the traffic flow.
I don't know how cars can do it on the freeways out here????? Guess the Caddie or Lexus or the what have you has too many dodads to let you remember your only doing 5-10mph.
Don't get me started at how people get tickets for driving too slow!!! Some have said it happens. Apperntley not here in Cali on the freeways!!!!!!!
So if you think,at least in the 55 days, 70-75 on the highway was "parade" riding?
Maybe you need to think again.
Just my attempt at calrifing myself. Take it as you wish.
Tom
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Stop worrying, it will not be long until they are gone. There sales and profits are still plummeting according to yesterdays MPN Dealer magazine.
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Stop worrying, it will not be long until they are gone. There sales and profits are still plummeting according to yesterdays MPN Dealer magazine.
Folks (including me unfortunately) have been predicting the demise of The Motor Company for years now. With HD shops carrying hundreds of low-mileage trade-ins in the back warehouse, and the 2003 "Centennial" rush past, they can't keep selling 200K new bikes every year. Well, that's what we said back in 2005, anyhow .... It's a force of nature, I'm afraid, not subject to normal market and economic forces ...
Lannis
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I rode along with a Harley group one time several years back, but I was on my '66 Beemer. Being a new guy, invited by a friend with a Harley and not having a Harley myself, I politely lined up at the very back of the group. Was ok for a while, but geez, it's like following a bunch of soccer moms in their suvs, chatting on cell phones.
Part of the ride took us down Rt77 through the Catoctin mountains where there are several sets of nice twisties. Although I didn't try, it would have been a simple effort to pass them all, in the turns, on my antique bike with skinny period correct tires. Of course the old Beemers are reasonably nimble in the turns, but one can't lean too far or you start dragging bits. Usually my boot is the first to hit.
I had an experience very much like this in Albuquerque, circa 1998. I was invited to make a ride with some friends to Madrid for a green chile cheeseburger at the Mineshaft. They all rode late model (and heavily customized) Harleys; I rode a '60 BMW R60. When I arrived, they all had a big (preplanned) laugh and asked, "will it go 55?" "Sure," said I. We took a route through the Sandia Mountains (the Turquoise Trail) and I dusted them all as soon as we cleared town. Its not that I was going particularly fast, but all those HDs dragged their undercarriage badly and those guys HAD to slow down for curves. But the real insult came at the restaurant...that old Rubber Cow got ALL of the attention...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/JamesBagley/6c7a715fe52d2d349e347c6a4b1663d6.jpg)
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Charlie makes a good point about pulling an RV and trailering in general.
When I pull my RV I seldom go over 65 and like to travel 5 under the limit. I am quite careful to allow folks to pass and when I need to pass someone I try to time it so I don't block traffic for an extended amount of time. Hey, it's really annoying to see one semi trying to pass another and they block BOTH lanes for 5 minutes.
On the other hand, I feel much safer when I am riding a motorcycle and passing all the traffic in front of me. It's much safer just to look ahead and go rather than riding with traffic and being concerned about being run over in all directions. Unfortunately, my city started to go big on speed zones about 15 years ago and I've had to "learn" to keep my cool when I ride. It's still not as safe as going faster.
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It's much safer just to look ahead and go rather than riding with traffic and being concerned about being run over in all directions.
:1:
Words to live by: Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
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I had an experience very much like this in Albuquerque, circa 1998. I was invited to make a ride with some friends to Madrid for a green chile cheeseburger at the Mineshaft. They all rode late model (and heavily customized) Harleys; I rode a '60 BMW R60. When I arrived, they all had a big (preplanned) laugh and asked, "will it go 55?" "Sure," said I. We took a route through the Sandia Mountains (the Turquoise Trail) and I dusted them all as soon as we cleared town. Its not that I was going particularly fast, but all those HDs dragged their undercarriage badly and those guys HAD to slow down for curves. But the real insult came at the restaurant...that old Rubber Cow got ALL of the attention...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/JamesBagley/6c7a715fe52d2d349e347c6a4b1663d6.jpg)
I rode the Turquoise Trail around that same time, as part of a side trip off Route 66 up to Sante Fe and back, on my 1996 Road King, following a Ducati and a Honda much of the route, and I don't recall having any trouble. The FLH line back then had pretty decent lean angles, some of which became compromised in the later 90s and early 00s, but mostly still are capable of turning. But there have always been Softails and Low Riders/Dynas that were lower and cornered less well.
<shrugs>
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yeah, IMHO the safest speed on a motorcycle is 2mph faster than traffic. I prefer to be closing on them rather than the other way round.
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Stop worrying, it will not be long until they are gone. There sales and profits are still plummeting according to yesterdays MPN Dealer magazine.
What is this? 1982?
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I rode the Turquoise Trail around that same time, as part of a side trip off Route 66 up to Sante Fe and back, on my 1996 Road King, following a Ducati and a Honda much of the route, and I don't recall having any trouble. The FLH line back then had pretty decent lean angles, some of which became compromised in the later 90s and early 00s, but mostly still are capable of turning. But there have always been Softails and Low Riders/Dynas that were lower and cornered less well.
<shrugs>
I'm certain that you're correct, Kev, but none of these bikes (all Softails except for one FX) were even close to stock. All were lowered, had these gangly forward controls, and scraped incessantly. They had plenty of power in the straights...that road just didn't have many straightaways. The point is that even a strictly average rider like me on an ancient 28 HP motorbike could outrun those $25-30K bikes on a tight road. It made me feel as though those fellows either picked the wrong bikes or the wrong road...
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What is this? 1982?
Everything goes in cycles , right Brother Mike ? :laugh:
Dusty
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What is this? 1982?
I don't know where you live, but here in So. Indiana-Louisville, Ky Market, Used H.D.s are going half of what they were a couple of years ago.
The other brands have 37% of their inventory as pre 2016 or older models on the show room floor. Higher than this time last year and higher than previous years. It is a buyers market. Want to buy a bike?
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Experienced the 'Harley" hate 15 years ago on sport-touring.net , figured wildgoose would be different, guess not.
Carry on. :boozing:
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It's surprising to me that folks dwell on something that may last at best 10-15 minutes of an occasional ride they take, and then you've left the folks behind. I like to ride and drive in a spirited manner, and if safe, I'll just pass the folks...I'm not even thinking about them 5 seconds after they've been passed...
Pass or don't pass....you can't really change other people's behavior unless you have a chance to talk with them and explain it to them.
So you either stop the single guy who's riding like a jerk at the next possible opportunity, or you tell the entire group of cruisers how they should ride, or you avoid them and ride your ride.
Remember the words of Bruce Lee: Don't let OTHERS control YOUR emotions!
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This is very true. It boils down to "How good of a rider are *you*? Were *you* able to overcome the obstacle skillfully and elegantly?" Forget about *them*.
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i get pretty wound up about the herds of riders clogging up a two-lane road, but I wouldn't say that I hate Harley's. Heck, most of my friends who ride motorbikes have them and they're pretty decent bikes within their respective genres. I haven't bought one yet, but there are several that piqued my interest. Kinda like Gold Wings that way...
Funny...I was reminded of the anti-bicycle rant we engaged in a while back. Face it...we're a bunch of old grumps that want it all "our way". So it goes...
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Seems to me that it's not about hate but rather a dislike of the HD Mindset- HD is better than ....
I definitely do not like being referred to as a "biker" because of the image that conjures in most folks, especially the non-riding public at large. Quite simply, HD ain't all that. It is only a man made mechanical conveyance with idiosyncrasies and some suspect engineering. Guzzi appeals to me but I don't make a religion out of it.
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Allrighty, I'll get sucked in. It's not the bikes, there are some really nice models. It's the majority (not all) of clowns that "ride" them. That's why I sold my Harley police bike years ago. Just didn't want to be associated. You really want a good laugh, head down to Wildwood, NJ, this weekend for the "Roar to the Shore".
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Allrighty, I'll get sucked in. It's not the bikes, there are some really nice models. It's the majority (not all) of clowns that "ride" them. That's why I sold my Harley police bike years ago. Just didn't want to be associated. You really want a good laugh, head down to Wildwood, NJ, this weekend for the "Roar to the Shore".
I like Harley Davidsons. I'd have one now if it weren't for the associations I found that people were making. People ARE a big part of riding, but when their prejudices start making it difficult to have a meaningful conversation on the road or in a camp, it's time to move.
And any meet with "Roar", "Rumble", or "Thunder" in it is one for me to avoid!
Lannis
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Lack of consideration for others.
seems to me that all we're really saying is, folks aren't very considerate of one another. In motorcycling, in the US, that's gonna manifest itself most egregiously in the cruiser culture simply because there's a 10:1 ratio of "them" to"us".
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My experience with Harley group riders was not of them riding slow but fast. I used to pick up puppies in southwest Wisconsin up to highway 29 every Saturday. Sure seemed like every weekend there would be a poker run somewhere in southwest Wis. I drove roughly 2-3 MPH over the speed limit in a van. The group would come up behind me, sit there for a few miles, then the whole group would try to pass me, lemming train style. Spent most of my time on highways 27 and 12. There are few and far between long passing zones on these roads. More then once I had to pull over to keep these morons from getting killed by oncoming traffic. Never have come up on a group ride that was slower then me.
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yeah, IMHO the safest speed on a motorcycle is 2 20 mph faster than traffic. I prefer to be closing on them rather than the other way round.
fixed it :evil:
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What the heck, I'll join in. I very much dislike the herd mentality and their rolling road blocks. Around my area, a large pack of bikes holding up traffic is usually made up of harleys.
As to it's the riders and not the bikes, I think part of it comes from the way the bikes are marketed and the image of being a harley owner that has developed.
As for harley bikes, there is not a one(new or used) that I would trade my Guzzi or Aprilia straight up for if I had to keep and ride it. I don't like the look or the sound.
So there. Flame me, I probably deserve it.
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I still like my Buell Thunderbolt.
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Allrighty, I'll get sucked in. It's not the bikes, there are some really nice models. It's the majority (not all) of clowns that "ride" them. That's why I sold my Harley police bike years ago. Just didn't want to be associated. You really want a good laugh, head down to Wildwood, NJ, this weekend for the "Roar to the Shore".
Yep, agree 100%, I find some of the HD bikes nice to look at but the typical attitude of many so called riders I have met leaves me cold. I rented a couple back in 2012 in Houston over a couple weekends, Road king and another one with hard bags and a low windshield, I was shocked by how slow they were, seemed to have nothing left above 85 mph and the feel in corners was in my opinion very poor.
Not claiming my 40+ year old Guzzi's are much better but then again they are all early 70's bikes.
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It's surprising to me that folks dwell on something that may last at best 10-15 minutes of an occasional ride
Pass or don't pass....you can't really change other people's behavior unless you have a chance to talk with them and explain it to them.
Remember the words of Bruce Lee: Don't let OTHERS control YOUR emotions!
:thumb:
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I don't get the avoiding a bike you might like because you don't want to be "associated" with some perception or image. Face it, the vast majority of people don't ride and can't tell a Harley from a Honda. We're all basically "associated" with the same image in most people's minds.
And having spent at least as much time on and around Harleys as BMWs and Guzzis and other brands I definitely disagree that most objections in this thread apply to the "majority" of Harley owners/riders. Sure their are some anti-social delinquents on Harleys, but by and large I meet genuinely nice folks that are a cross-section of our population.
Hell Sunday I was out on the Sporty scrubbing in a new tire and stopped to get some photos along some abandoned railroad tracks that cross the road I was on.
I was immediately met by a dual-sport rider coming off a trail who wanted to know if everything was alright. In the ten minutes or so I was there every single group of bikes (mostly Harleys) slowed or stopped to see if I was ok. One of them was a 65 y/o gentlemen, former lifetime classic Triumph rider and MSF instructor, who just recently bought his first Sportster.
I realize most Guzzi riders are probably predisposed to reject too much socialisation, never mind any perception of herd mentality. But not everyone who likes a given brand or even socializing with a few other riding friends is engaging in nothing more than group think. Hell even Guzzi breakfast runs can result in a dozen riders, maybe even taking a ride together.
If it's just the "rolling roadblocks" that are objectionable it's quite obvious to me they are a minority subset of those who ride Harleys and Harley "styled" bikes.
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Some of y'all need to get off the KERA and get in the real world. Wasn't Harley #1 in the IronButt last year? Check out the Four Corners Tour and the Three Flags Classic and Harley is on the top of the list.
A Harley rider from Vancouver, WA stopped by the Oleo Ranch while he was doing the Four Corners Tour for the second time on his Harley.
OTOH One Sat morning I'm riding down one of the many tree lined East Texas road following a stock trailer prolly going to the sale. As expected he wasn't going to fast with the load of bulls in the trailer. You know what was holding him up? A motorcycle.
Bitch about Harley and enjoy the KERA.
Tex
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A couple of days ago riding the V11, I had a man ask me "is that a Harley?" "No and thank god it's not" He laughed with gusto.
Personally, I would not get out of the electric chair to ride one of them.
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Just the other day I got behind a group of Zundapp riders going to a brat fest. Talk about Harley riders being bad in a group......
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OK, so I have to admit...I would not mind owning a Roadster. I'd love to own a 40's or 50's era HD as well. Indian Scout and old 4cyl Indian is on the list as well.
But, I would NOT ride around in chaps and leather vest with my feet splayed out in front of me :) And I'd probably find a way to raise the bike up and remove stuff that dragged in corners.
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I don't get the avoiding a bike you might like because you don't want to be "associated" with some perception or image. Face it, the vast majority of people don't ride and can't tell a Harley from a Honda. We're all basically "associated" with the same image in most people's minds.
And having spent at least as much time on and around Harleys as BMWs and Guzzis and other brands I definitely disagree that most objections in this thread apply to the "majority" of Harley owners/riders. Sure their are some anti-social delinquents on Harleys, but by and large I meet genuinely nice folks that are a cross-section of our population.
Hell Sunday I was out on the Sporty scrubbing in a new tire and stopped to get some photos along some abandoned railroad tracks that cross the road I was on.
Just goes to show how different we can be in how we "perceive" things.
1) I like the way Harleys are styled and perform and last on the highway, and how easy to work on, and get parts for, the old ones are.
2) I've had 33 bikes in 45 years. Three have been Harley-Davidsons, ridden a total of about 90,000 miles.
3) Socializing with people, at rallies and on the road (and as a KERA member) is a big part of riding, to me.
And here's the kicker.
4) Because of the interactions and conversations that I have had on the highways and at gatherings while riding my Harleys, I have chosen to not ride Harleys any more, and ride Guzzis, Triumphs, and BSAs.
I don't think you can blame any of that on "Harley Hating", "not enough riding", "unsociability", or any other easy explanation other than "Some reasonable, riding people see things differently than you do." That bothers the HELL out of some people and they fight to the death about it, or reject the other person as some sort of idiot. I tend to think better of most around here.
Although I've seen signs ....
Lannis
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That's like a t-shirt I have seen recently.. "I used to be a people person, then people ruined it.."
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I like that one.
A shirt I am wearing today:
"Read my my T-shirt...that's enough personal interaction for one day"
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Opinions are like opinions
Everybodies got one
Darn the little popcorn dude isnt available on my phone
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I think each bike tends to attract both the people who consider themselves "serious riders" (yeh, sure, you Never smile) and "posers" (who get into the image and want to be seen on one and/or decorate it).
In the early 70's, the Dodge Challenger was (in)famous for having more non-functional factory options than any other car to date. Seems like some other vehicles have far surpassed that -- probably driven by the limitations of what you can do to the engine, etc., (legally).
But clearly, many folks buy Harleys for the theatrical quality. But Harley riders are not alone in their desire to dress up (both themselves and their bikes).
I recently bought a 2014 Morgan Three-wheeler. Morgan offers almost no performance upgrades, but you can double the price of the cycle with cosmetic mods.
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/M3W-160825-Shark-5131s.jpg)
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/M3W-160825-Shark-5147s.jpg)
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/M3W-160825-Shark-5146s.jpg)
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Nice bike!
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Just goes to show how different we can be in how we "perceive" things.
<snip>
And here's the kicker.
4) Because of the interactions and conversations that I have had on the highways and at gatherings while riding my Harleys, I have chosen to not ride Harleys any more, and ride Guzzis, Triumphs, and BSAs.
I don't think you can blame any of that on "Harley Hating", "not enough riding", "unsociability", or any other easy explanation other than "Some reasonable, riding people see things differently than you do."
No, one might easily chose to blame that on the seeker finding what was sought. Of course I recognize that cuts both ways (and at multiple angles).
:boozing:
I recently bought a 2014 Morgan Three-wheeler. Morgan offers almost no performance upgrades, but you can double the price of the cycle with cosmetic mods.
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/M3W-160825-Shark-5131s.jpg)
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/M3W-160825-Shark-5147s.jpg)
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/M3W-160825-Shark-5146s.jpg)
I would guess that clearly you bought it because it's probably a ball!
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Wart Hog Owners! When you get tired of taking care of that expensive Slow and Glow Parade Custom, why not trade it in for one of these practical, stylish and comfortable rides? ....
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/greg-hurleys-winning-steampunk-wheelchair-design-e1389967203632_zpsaa54u9m3.png)
NO RACING IN THE HALLS, PLEASE!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/hide_zpsvyrlt6ky.gif)
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Sensational Morgan! There is a Harley that gets my attention...
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OK, so I have to admit...I would not mind owning a Roadster. I'd love to own a 40's or 50's era HD as well. Indian Scout and old 4cyl Indian is on the list as well.
But, I would NOT ride around in chaps and leather vest with my feet splayed out in front of me :) And I'd probably find a way to raise the bike up and remove stuff that dragged in corners.
Proper weight springs for the forks and custom shocks for the rear (with proper weight springs) yields about 1 inch more ride height. Which means more lean angle for corners.
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Which, I would want more of than "looking low and going slow".
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OK, so I have to admit...I would not mind owning a Roadster. I'd love to own a 40's or 50's era HD as well. Indian Scout and old 4cyl Indian is on the list as well.
But, I would NOT ride around in chaps and leather vest with my feet splayed out in front of me :) And I'd probably find a way to raise the bike up and remove stuff that dragged in corners.
Speaking of Roadsters:
(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y518/mjptexas/HD%20Roadster/5706E5A3-4B3B-4D18-81CB-D7DAC5439E92_zpsdyodof49.jpg) (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/mjptexas/media/HD%20Roadster/5706E5A3-4B3B-4D18-81CB-D7DAC5439E92_zpsdyodof49.jpg.html)
It's a pretty sweet ride. The suspension makes a huge difference in the bike. The peg feelers drag on a semi-regular basis, but I'm doing my best to solve that problem by wearing them down :cool:
And yes, the irony is not lost on me that, as the OP, I do own a Harley.
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1957, 1st year for the sporty. :boozing:
(http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/~/media/Images/MCC/Editorial/Articles/Magazine%20Articles/2011/05-01/1957%20Harley-Davidson%20Sportster%20XL/Sportster-1.jpg)
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Speaking of Roadsters:
(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y518/mjptexas/HD%20Roadster/5706E5A3-4B3B-4D18-81CB-D7DAC5439E92_zpsdyodof49.jpg) (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/mjptexas/media/HD%20Roadster/5706E5A3-4B3B-4D18-81CB-D7DAC5439E92_zpsdyodof49.jpg.html)
It's a pretty sweet ride. The suspension makes a huge difference in the bike. The peg feelers drag on a semi-regular basis, but I'm doing my best to solve that problem by wearing them down :cool:
And yes, the irony is not lost on me that, as the OP, I do own a Harley.
did you trade Sporsters Mike?
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1957, 1st year for the sporty. :boozing:
(http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/~/media/Images/MCC/Editorial/Articles/Magazine%20Articles/2011/05-01/1957%20Harley-Davidson%20Sportster%20XL/Sportster-1.jpg)
What a beauty.
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You know the reason stereotypes exist? Because at one point, they were true. Same thing for Harleys.
Is it still like that? Maybe, maybe not. But to be honest with you, the only Harley I would like to own would be the Street Rod which didn't sell that well and only lasted a couple of years. It was just a V-Rod but with a much more upright seating position and the pegs directly under you. It also used an engine developed by Porsche and wasn't a traditional Harley engine.
(http://tenwheel.com/imgs/a/a/k/f/e/2006_harley_davidson_street_rod_vrscr_1_lgw.jpg)
Funny thing too, for some reason, Harley's are much more expensive to insure than even my Guzzi as I cross shopped the Street Rod and considered getting one until I found out the insurance was almost double what the Guzzi is.
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Funny thing too, for some reason, Harley's are much more expensive to insure than even my Guzzi as I cross shopped the Street Rod and considered getting one until I found out the insurance was almost double what the Guzzi is.
In most areas of the country, the explanation comes in one word - theft. For another outrageous example, check the rates for a Caddy Escalade - same problem.
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You know the reason stereotypes exist? Because at one point, they were true. Same thing for Harleys.
<snip>
Funny thing too, for some reason, Harley's are much more expensive to insure than even my Guzzi as I cross shopped the Street Rod and considered getting one until I found out the insurance was almost double what the Guzzi is.
Woah, easy there on that first statement or you're stepping in it. At best some stereotypes might have some truth in some discernable percentage of the population (enough for some to see a pattern). But there are plenty of stereotypes based on misperception or prejudice too that have little or no basis in reality, never mind apply to the majority of the population.
As for insurance it must vary greatly by region. My Harleys have never been more than my imports to insure. In the current fleet the Duc was most expensive for a while and the V7 is/was close, the Sporty is under $100 a year these days and was never as high as the Duc at peak (which barely broke $200/year when brand new).
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But there are plenty of stereotypes based on misperception or prejudice too that have little or no basis in reality, never mind apply to the majority of the population.
I'm sitting here trying to think of some, and having a problem. Can you name a couple (out of the "plenty") of stereotypes that have little or no basis in reality, past or present?
Lannis
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Thanks for the tip on the Roadster. And the Street Rod is another example I like. I do wish HD would put a bigger tank on the sporties. Aftermarket has some though.
My father-in-law had an early sporty. He claimed it was the only HD he'd ever own cause it handled so well. Later in life he bought a CB500-4 in Japan when they first came out. It rode back with him in a Navy C-54.
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did you trade Sporsters Mike?
Yep
Traded the Custom:
(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y518/mjptexas/Sportster%20pics/4EC276C7-596F-44F7-9158-A922C78392F7_zpswzjny50j.jpg) (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/mjptexas/media/Sportster%20pics/4EC276C7-596F-44F7-9158-A922C78392F7_zpswzjny50j.jpg.html)
for the Roadster:
(http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y518/mjptexas/HD%20Roadster/4405CE8B-331B-43A6-9A61-2343479A85BE_zpsn9j6kr4s.jpg) (http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/mjptexas/media/HD%20Roadster/4405CE8B-331B-43A6-9A61-2343479A85BE_zpsn9j6kr4s.jpg.html)
I had the Custom set up so it was pretty comfortable, but just didn't like the feet forward for longer rides. The Roadster might be a keeper.
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...I do wish HD would put a bigger tank on the sporties...
You can get a Sportster with a 4.5 gallon tank.
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I recently bought a 2014 Morgan Three-wheeler. Morgan offers almost no performance upgrades, but you can double the price of the cycle with cosmetic mods.
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/M3W-160825-Shark-5147s.jpg)
I want a Morgan with a Cali 14 engine. With the red head covers. Body in black, red trim, red leather seating. I don't care if it gets hot in the sun, it would be so :cool:
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The engine in this Morgan looks like an S&S X wedge .
Dusty
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Looks like the rear engine cylinder is a fake. :wink:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/xray%20biker_zpsdlsepvif.jpg)
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I ride this thing, a Sportster sport bike...Accelerating past a group of Harley riders stopped for fuel, they look for a Harley but don't see one... :cool:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZygzW9vl.jpg)
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Lannis, "can I?" Yes, I can.
You can get a Sportster with a 4.5 gallon tank.
Yup, I love the range (150-175 miles) I generally get with the 4.5g walnut tank on my XLr and that is found on a number of Sportster models, but I like the looks of the 2.2g and 3.5g peanut tanks on many of the Sportster models.
I've already heard some speculation about mounting a walnut tank on a new CX Roadster, but I think it might require bar repositioning.
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I went on a relatively long ride with a buddy yesterday. He was on his brand spankin' new Sportster Forty-Eight with the peanut tank (Harley dealer says it has been 48 years since the first small tank). I was on my V7 Special. He gassed up 3 times to my one. I couldn't do it.
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I went on a relatively long ride with a buddy yesterday. He was on his brand spankin' new Sportster Forty-Eight with the peanut tank (Harley dealer says it has been 48 years since the first small tank). I was on my V7 Special. He gassed up 3 times to my one. I couldn't do it.
Yeah that has the 2.2, which is obviously the worst for distance. On the 1200cc Sportsters you are generally looking at only around 40 mpg.
I believe generally the light comes on at:
2.2g goes about EDIT 1.5 to reserve, so ~60 miles
3.5g goes about 2.5 to reserve, so ~100 miles.
4.5g goes about 3.2 to reserve, so ~130 miles.
I've found with the 4.5g I can actually use somewhere a little more than 4g, but I've never run it out.
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Yeah that has the 2.2, which is obviously the worst for distance. On the 1200cc Sportsters you are generally looking at only around 40 mpg.
I believe generally:
2.2g goes about 1.8 to reserve, so ~70-75 miles
3.5g goes about 2.5-2.8 to reserve, so ~100-110 miles.
4.5g goes about 3.2-3.5 to reserve, so ~130-140 miles.
I've found with the 4.5g I can actually use somewhere a little more than 4g, but I've never run it out.
Yea, I figured around 35-40 MPG on his bike, and told him he's got approx 20 miles to find gas after his light comes on. Is that accurate?
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Yea, I figured around 35-40 MPG on his bike, and told him he's got approx 20 miles to find gas after his light comes on. Is that accurate?
I had to research that. Sounds like my earlier estimates are high on reserve point. Light comes on just a little after 1g, generally closer to 50-60 miles with total distance in the 80 mile range. So yeah, it depends on at what point his light is coming on, but ~20 after is probably a good estimate. The was at least one report of 100 miles with wrist discipline.
I'd take him for a ride with your spare bottles some time and purposely run it out to check.
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Lannis, "can I?" Yes, I can.
Kev - Do unto others .... You'd never put up with someone making, in writing, a positive, in-your-face statement about something like stereotypes and then let them get away without backing it up when asked.
So don't expect us to. Either back it up with an example or (and here's the really hard part for you) admit "Ready-Fire-Aim" B.S. on that.
Lannis
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Kev - Do unto others .... You'd never put up with someone making, in writing, a positive, in-your-face statement about something like stereotypes and then let them get away without backing it up when asked.
So don't expect us to. Either back it up with an example or (and here's the really hard part for you) admit "Ready-Fire-Aim" B.S. on that.
Lannis
No thanks, I'll pass on your bait.
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No thanks, I'll pass on your bait.
I wasn't the one throwing the bait out there. But I understand.
Lannis
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Yea, I figured around 35-40 MPG on his bike, and told him he's got approx 20 miles to find gas after his light comes on. Is that accurate?
The carbureted Buell in my post above gets 50-55 MPG consistently on back road trips riding in a mild sporting manner. I have checked it several times while riding with Petrus Rocks on his Guzzi... The Buell is lighter than a new Sportster and may have more power (factory said 83 Hp)..The Buell runs about 3100 rpm at 60 mph with non stock gearing.
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Then their are the clowns who think their late model Harleys are classics... I'll go to a small town car/tractor show and here amongst the 60s and earlier cars and tractors are a bunch of near new Harleys! The Harleys built for the last couple decades will never be classics or collectables, simply because they're lousy bikes and Harley built literally millions of them. I'll ride one of my decades old airheads or the rare but not yet classic Quota to the show and respectfully park outside the show area, and the bike pretty much gets ignored. But the arrogant Harley riders will park their brand new antique Harleys right in the middle of the show and expect their mass produced bikes to be admired...
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I think each bike tends to attract both the people who consider themselves "serious riders" (yeh, sure, you Never smile) and "posers" (who get into the image and want to be seen on one and/or decorate it).
In the early 70's, the Dodge Challenger was (in)famous for having more non-functional factory options than any other car to date. Seems like some other vehicles have far surpassed that -- probably driven by the limitations of what you can do to the engine, etc., (legally).
But clearly, many folks buy Harleys for the theatrical quality. But Harley riders are not alone in their desire to dress up (both themselves and their bikes).
I recently bought a 2014 Morgan Three-wheeler. Morgan offers almost no performance upgrades, but you can double the price of the cycle with cosmetic mods.
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/M3W-160825-Shark-5131s.jpg)
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/M3W-160825-Shark-5147s.jpg)
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/M3W-160825-Shark-5146s.jpg)
How do you like the ride and handling? I love the look of the Morgan.
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The Harleys built for the last couple decades will never be classics or collectables, simply because they're lousy bikes
:rolleyes:
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I was wrong. There is nothing really wrong with the brand.
On second thought, it is obvious it's the rider's attitude thats responsible for the club-like behavior.
Their natural instincts.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/sheep%20on%20road_zpscj7rtod6.jpg)
The flock is off! Sturgis! Sturgis!
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(http://www.iwt.co.uk/assets/products/thumbnails/_resampled/PadWyI0NjAiLCIyNzgiLCJGRkZGRkYiXQ/DP.jpg)
Sturgis! Sturgis!
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And here is another one of those slow 'jock' showoff riders.
"Look at me Look at me!"
So typical.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/alligator%20on%20bike_zpsbodtstha.jpg)
:rolleyes:
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And here is another one of those slow 'jock' showoff riders.
"Look at me Look at me!"
So typical.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/alligator%20on%20bike_zpsbodtstha.jpg)
:rolleyes:
Ahh , the much rumored "Gator Glide" , or is that the MoCo's amphibious vehicle that the Navy has been clamoring for :huh:
Dusty
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And here is another one of those slow 'jock' showoff riders.
"Look at me Look at me!"
So typical.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/alligator%20on%20bike_zpsbodtstha.jpg)
:rolleyes:
I'm looking at the way that thing is tied on and mouth-taped, and if it's not alive in that photo, it was not long before!
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The blue ones are
smarter faster!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/funny_motorcycle_ride_costume_1009_zpsogm585if.jpg)