Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Travlr on October 12, 2016, 10:52:07 AM
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http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/october/germany-votes-to-ban-internal-combustion-engine-by-2030/
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The future is going to suck, I'll continue to live in the past. :wink:
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I probably won't live to see it, but I doubt they will make the goal!!!
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The resolution is non-binding, so may not happen, but it is a strong statement of intent, especially when German regulations have historically shaped many EU regulations.
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Face it fellas , the world is changing , most young folks aren't in love with motor vehicles , and after our generation is gone ...
Dusty
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When I visited the factory for the company I now work for in Wujiang, (near Suzhou, outside of Shanghai.)..that city recently BANNED all gas-powered scooters!! :rolleyes: :shocked: All the scooters in the parking lot were electric... So electric bicycles and scooters were everywhere!! :rolleyes: :shocked:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/i9yWYv/IMG_6290.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i9yWYv)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/d16JDv/IMG_6291.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d16JDv)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hGVOfa/IMG_6292.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hGVOfa)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mGTWYv/IMG_6293.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mGTWYv)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/noBJDv/IMG_6294.jpg) (http://ibb.co/noBJDv)
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Will be interesting to see how they replace such things as heavy truck and construction equipment i.c. engines (just to name two) with electric.
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The content of this resolution was not to ban internal combustion engines in 2030, it was to stop the sales of new vehicles with these engines in 2030.
What to say ? I'm not really surprised, at some point the "new traffic age " has to begin. Guzzi motorcycles will not shape the future. Let us enjoy them as long as possible :bike-037:
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The content of this resolution was not to ban internal combustion engines in 2030, it was to stop the sales of new vehicles with these engines in 2030.
What to say ? I'm not really surprised, at some point the "new traffic age " has to begin. Guzzi motorcycles will not shape the future. Let us enjoy them as long as possible :bike-037:
I suspect it's more of a "statement of intent" than an actual goal.
After Fukushima, the Germans panicked and said they would immediately shut down all their nuclear power plants ... then it got pushed out .... then they realized that they didn't have a plan other than burning the hell out of coal ...
I'm looking for the same thing to happen with IC engines .... panic, look for a plan, etc ....
Lannis
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Did anyone ask Volvo or Mercedes?
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I suspect it's more of a "statement of intent" than an actual goal.
That goes along with the fact that it's a non-binding resolution.
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Makes me wanna roll some coal!!! :evil:
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That goes along with the fact that it's a non-binding resolution.
And when you consider that a 1916 Cadillac is just about the same car as a 2016 Cadillac (steering wheel, 4 rubber tires, crankshaft, pistons, electric starter, differential, generator, headlights, gearbox, radiator, etc), the goal of doing away with all that in 15 years sounds rather 1960's "Popular Science-ish", in which by 2000 we would colonize Mars and be running around in fusion powered self-guided cars when we weren't flying in our personal jet-packs ...
Lannis
Lannis
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The writing is already on the wall for internal combustion, even with current battery technology, and there are already work going on with regular lithium ion that is going to double their capacity within the next few years. 600 mile range on a car that needs basically no service whatsoever? I'm glad that the germans are committing to something like that even if they don't get it done by then, at least they're committing to innovation.
Yes something does get lost in the transition from gasoline to electric, especially on motorcycles, but the performance gains to be had and the instant and massive torque of electric vehicles is loads of fun and something I would love to own right now. 20 minutes on a Zero S made my Breva 1100 feel very slow and massive when I got back on it. I know for sure I'll eventually buy electric, and I know I'll be happy when I do, but the technology isn't there yet for motorcycles because range is too low and charge time is too long. I'm not sure I could ever go without a gas bike in the garage though.
Like Charlie said, I don't see gasoline and diesel coming to an end any time soon either. Construction equipment, offroad vehicles, aircraft, ships and anything else that has to work off the grid and needs to be running RIGHT NOW is going to stay internal combustion for a while. Already I've heard tell of mechanics who are lamenting the fact that electric cars are going to put them out of business, but they won't have to worry for a while.
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Did anyone ask Volvo or Mercedes?
I guess I could go the Volvo plant up the road in Shippensburg Pennsylvania and ask if they were talked too.
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"No new combustion engine cars are to be allowed on the roads after 2030". Well that leaves one loop hole, and even if they close that imagen what our well kept bikes might be worth than, assuming they still allow petrol to be sold. On the other hand maybe we'll be riding jet bikes like Star Wars.
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some things will not be electric in any of our lifetimes...
(http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/jim_bryant/2009/09-11/largecars/largecarpete379-02_08-30-09.jpg)
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Rocker, Semis maybe not electric but easily on natural gas.
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Rocker, Semis maybe not electric but easily on natural gas.
CNG is already being used on some local city trucks, but Over The Road trucks will not be CNG in our lifetimes.
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CNG is still internal combustion.
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The greenheads have lost their collective minds. Hope they get their electrical systems in shape to handle all those batteries, LMAO
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The writing is already on the wall for internal combustion, even with current battery technology, and there are already work going on with regular lithium ion that is going to double their capacity within the next few years. 600 mile range on a car that needs basically no service whatsoever? I'm glad that the germans are committing to something like that even if they don't get it done by then, at least they're committing to innovation.
Yes something does get lost in the transition from gasoline to electric, especially on motorcycles, but the performance gains to be had and the instant and massive torque of electric vehicles is loads of fun and something I would love to own right now. 20 minutes on a Zero S made my Breva 1100 feel very slow and massive when I got back on it. I know for sure I'll eventually buy electric, and I know I'll be happy when I do, but the technology isn't there yet for motorcycles because range is too low and charge time is too long. I'm not sure I could ever go without a gas bike in the garage though.
Like Charlie said, I don't see gasoline and diesel coming to an end any time soon either. Construction equipment, offroad vehicles, aircraft, ships and anything else that has to work off the grid and needs to be running RIGHT NOW is going to stay internal combustion for a while. Already I've heard tell of mechanics who are lamenting the fact that electric cars are going to put them out of business, but they won't have to worry for a while.
Me, too. I rode a Zero SR, and it was like a Lario with 3 times the power, better brakes and handling. Serious fun..
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some things will not be electric in any of our lifetimes...
(http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/jim_bryant/2009/09-11/largecars/largecarpete379-02_08-30-09.jpg)
If we really wanted to save fuel, lower emissions, and make the highways safer, we could do that RIGHT NOW by putting the cross-country non-local loads that those trucks are pulling on railroad trains, with suitably updated routing and dispatch systems.
But we don't really want to, or at least the truck lobby has convinced us that we don't really want to.
If we "wanted to", we don't have to wait for some new super-zoot technology. The technology isn't the issue.
Lannis
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Germany and most Germans think they are single-handedly going to save the Earth to make up for what Germany did decades ago.
And Germany now takes it's marching orders from the EU Commission .
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I've wondered why they don't use more railroads for x country loads myself.. maybe there's a reason that I don't know about. <shrug>
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Just something to consider , Germany imports almost all of its oil . No idea how they plan to produce the electricity to power the necessary charge stations , but they are on the leading edge of Solar and wind power . This move away from internal combustion must be viewed from their perspective and not from our's .
Dusty
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I've wondered why they don't use more railroads for x country loads myself.. maybe there's a reason that I don't know about. <shrug>
The first and most obvious answer is that a 5-man train crew will pull a load from the West Coast to the East that it would take 300 drivers to do. Transitioning workers from driving trucks to servicing trains would be tough, and the unions (and probably the drivers) don't want to face that, even though there would be lots of local trucking to get stuff from the railroad to the destination.
Second is that the same track-it-by-the-second, know-exactly-where-it-is sorts of dispatching systems that you use every day with UPS, FedEx, or the USPS aren't in place for the railroads, and someone would have to get on the stick and fix that.
Third is that we are continuously giving up track mileage for "Green" "Rails to Trails" sorts of boondoggles, which are not "green" at all when you add it all up. That's a national strategy problem that is easily fixable, with the willpower to do it.
All that being said, Stormtruck (if he's reading this) has some good "inside-the-industry" information that makes the case in the direction of trucking that we last had on the list 5 years ago or so. I'd like to see it again, and consider the assumptions behind it in the year 2016 .... !
Lannis
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Germany and most Germans think they are single-handedly going to save the Earth to make up for what Germany did decades ago.
If that's what they're doing with energy, they're going about it a strange way. German coal use has gone up 40% in the last 5 years since they decided to do away with nuclear ... and they're planning for more. "Greenhouse Gas" emissions goals aren't even being lit up by the tail-lights any more, they're so far behind, and getting behinder. And they know as well as anyone else that providing a base power load from intermittent sources like wind and solar is just an impossible pipe dream; hand-wringing and speculation isn't going to keep the lights on.
So I'm not sure how they're going to explain all this to the emissions monitors ....
Lannis
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I'm skeptical of using Elon Musk's Hyperloop to transport people, however, it may make sense for shipping goods across country. A cross country system of tubes could be constructed and the entire tube casing could be a series of solar panels to help power it. There could be major hub stations in big cities (just outside the cities) that could serve as transfer points. The tube (entire system)would also be weather proof and short of an earthquake or major flood damage would allow for shipment even in the most severe snow/ice storm.
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some things will not be electric in any of our lifetimes...
(http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/jim_bryant/2009/09-11/largecars/largecarpete379-02_08-30-09.jpg)
Put it on rails. Power it by electric.
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It might be worthwhile to remember that there was huge resistance to the IC engine and cars in general circa 1900 . Seriously , most folks simply would not believe that cars would , or even could replace horses . It took a series of laws and a major change in infrastucture to make cars and IC engines viable . We might be witnessing something similar here .
Dusty
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Second is that the same track-it-by-the-second, know-exactly-where-it-is sorts of dispatching systems that you use every day with UPS, FedEx, or the USPS aren't in place for the railroads, and someone would have to get on the stick and fix that.
Actually, UPS does have it in place, and does contract work for companies like Ford to manage their purchasing and shipping by truck and rail.
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It might be worthwhile to remember that there was huge resistance to the IC engine and cars in general circa 1900 . Seriously , most folks simply would not believe that cars would , or even could replace horses . It took a series of laws and a major change in infrastucture to make cars and IC engines viable . We might be witnessing something similar here .
Dusty
Gasoline availability was the biggest hindrance.
Once gasoline production and delivery began improving, livery stables and blacksmith shops became service stations. Even Mercantiles and General Stores began selling fuel.
Mack began working on heavy trucks quite early, to begin replacing teams and wagons.
Road improvements followed, after WWI. (And greatly accelerated after WWII).
Gasoline vehicles were dramatically cheaper to maintain than horses, so almost everyone adopted cars, trucks, and tractors at the fist available chance.
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The first and most obvious answer is that a 5-man train crew will pull a load from the West Coast to the East that it would take 300 drivers to do.
Train crews aren't 5-man, haven't been since the '60s, maybe even before. When I worked as a Freight Conductor for CSX, we had two-man crews (unless there was a training conductor or training engineer on board). Just a Locomotive Engineer and Freight Conductor. Some local jobs still had a brakeman or fireman - but those went away when the "veteran" railroader that worked them retired or they were negotiated out of the contract.
However, if you add together all of the two-man crews that it takes to make it across the country in 12 hour shifts, then it's considerably more than 5. :wink:
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Gasoline vehicles were dramatically cheaper to maintain than horses, so almost everyone adopted cars, trucks, and tractors at the fist available chance.
It's not quite the same now, though.
The problem is not that there is a technology that everyone would like to use instead of cars and trucks if the infrastructure would just catch up. The problem is that the unlimited availability of petroleum at cheap prices, and the publicly funded but overloaded roads, is driving a "tragedy of the commons" problem, where people just overuse IC engines and roads until they jam up and die ....
Do we let that happen, or do we (GASP!) let the government interfere for the public good and encourage plans that will NOT lead to unbreathable air, gridlocked roads, and tens of thousands more road fatalities every year?
Lannis
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Back in 2013, Tesla predicted selling 10,000 cars a year in Germany. As of last year, it hadn't hit that for all of Europe (or barely so, the sources are a bit muddled).
As the story eventually points out (you have to get past the hyperbole in the opening paragraphs), the non-binding move in the German legislature is more of a formalization of sales trends already underway. The EU Parliament won't be as sweeping in its laws when it eventually follows, since auto workers in Italy, Spain and Eastern Europe (and the companies that employ them) will want more than 14 years to adapt. Your Ferrari or FIAT, your SEAT or Dacia will more likely be a hybrid than pure electric, but getting one that doesn't have at least partial electric power will be more and more uncommon.
Then again, the torque and acceleration of hybrids and electrics can be absolutely amazing!
Now, there's another non-fossil-fueled alternative that may be even more interesting. Take it with a grain of salt, but this might actually be the answer to the charging problem. http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20161010-driving-the-saltwater-sports-car (http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20161010-driving-the-saltwater-sports-car)
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In the 20th Century, "the public good" was cheap gas and subsidized highways that would bring mobility and prosperity.
Cheap Gasoline put the horses out to pasture. Cheap diesel sent the steam locomotives to the scrap yard.
Cheap gasoline will continue to do what it does, until a better/cheaper/lower maintenance method of powering cars/trucks/tractors/locomotives/ships/airplanes is devised.
Necessity is the Mother of Invention, right? The primary driving force for most new inventions is a need, right? It will take satisfying the real, tangible needs of better/cheaper/faster/more powerful for a new innovation to knock gasoline and diesel off their thrones.
At some point gasoline and diesel will be replaced, but I don't think any of us here know yet what that will new product will be. Whatever it is will come in and sweep gasoline and diesel out in a matter of a decade, or two, like gasoline and diesel did to horses in the early 20th Century. It may be electric, but that will be a long time coming. Seriously, gasoline knocked electric vehicles out in the early 20th Century. Electric has been scratching and clawing, but it hasn't gained much ground.
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UPS already has over a thousand CNG fueled tractor trailer rigs and is several railroads biggest customer. Berkshire Hathaway's electric utilities are building the world's biggest wind power installations and the BNSF railroad they own runs right along many of those wind power installations. BNSF has reportedly "done the numbers" on rail electrification but decided not to proceed at this time. But when fuel prices go up again...
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It will all work out just fine, as soon as the new power plants running on pixie dust and unicorn farts come on line there will be all the electricity ever needed and it will be free. :evil:
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UPS already has over a thousand CNG fueled tractor trailer rigs and is several railroads biggest customer. Berkshire Hathaway's electric utilities are building the world's biggest wind power installations and the BNSF railroad they own runs right along many of those wind power installations.
Couple of things ...
1) The problem with tractor-trailers is not only the emissions they put out (which would be lessened with CNG, although I don't know the relative energy density and efficiency between CNG and diesel), but the load they put on the highways and on traffic. Trains fix that.
2) There's no connection between "wind farms" being along the rails, and the potential electrification of the railroads. The energy grid, and ESPECIALLY the needs of electric trains, doesn't work like that. Even if the wind turbines run along the tracks, it's very unlikely that many of the electrons from the windmills would actually go to the trains. Another "base load" thing ....
Lannis
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Germany is getting ever so close to becoming completely energy independent, as well as sustainable.
http://www.sciencealert.com/last-sunday-95-percent-of-germany-s-energy-was-provided-by-renewables
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It will all work out just fine, as soon as the new power plants running on pixie dust and unicorn farts come on line there will be all the electricity ever needed and it will be free. :evil:
It's called fusion, and it's being researched now. Several test reactors in differing designs (laser-implosion pulse, plasma, and so on) are in use and development. It may not be free, but it will be relatively cheap, won't produce fuel wastes that can be used for weapons, and doesn't require fuel that is radioactive in the first place.
The problem is that taking it from theory or demonstration to production requires another kind of unicorn, known as a 'breakthrough'. These exist, but it's impossible to predict when you'll see one. :grin:
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It'll do wonders for VW's emissions numbers.
Oh, wait. . .
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Germany is getting ever so close to becoming completely energy independent, as well as sustainable.
http://www.sciencealert.com/last-sunday-95-percent-of-germany-s-energy-was-provided-by-renewables
I hope you really read the article and realize the facts. That's a staged, "made up" situation.
Right now, Germany gets 45% of their power needs from COAL and that's going up. They buy a lot of power from the French nuclear plants. German electricity bills are higher than they've ever been.
There's no pixie dust, much as everyone would like there to be. There's no "oil company suppressing the carburetor that burns water". The facts are much harder.
Lannis
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Hey......electric Leopold tanks for their army. :cool:
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Will be interesting to see how they replace such things as heavy truck and construction equipment i.c. engines (just to name two) with electric.
As most construction type equipment the motor basically runs a hydraulic pump its not a stretch of the imagination there are plenty of bucket reclaimers and drag line diggers that are all electric already anything big with things like Komatsu on the side are diesel electric. Now I doubt they'll be running on batteries some sort of mains supply or a site portable solar or wind plant.
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And it is Euro 6 compliant ......
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic003/horsecar1_zpsvydv0ieh.jpg)
:whip2:
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What is that 1bpm? bale per mile.
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It's called fusion, and it's being researched now. Several test reactors in differing designs (laser-implosion pulse, plasma, and so on) are in use and development. It may not be free, but it will be relatively cheap, won't produce fuel wastes that can be used for weapons, and doesn't require fuel that is radioactive in the first place.
The problem is that taking it from theory or demonstration to production requires another kind of unicorn, known as a 'breakthrough'. These exist, but it's impossible to predict when you'll see one. :grin:
Practical, controllable fusion would be a world-changer for sure. But it's a millenium-sized engineering problem; and we've been waiting for that "breakthrough" for almost 60 years now, try as we might ....
Lannis
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Aren't the freight rail lines pretty much at capacity now?
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Yes, at least for the U.S. The infrastructure for rail would have to be upgraded for more use and availability. The freight would still need trucks to move from the rail yards out to the distribution centers. Electric motors and batteries can't handle right now.
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I think it's a good place to start. It remains to be seen if it amounts to anything.
Oh -- and in 1900 the big reason horses were still popular was because there were no auto-suitable roads. if there was no place to drive, fuel was a secondary consideration. Remember the 'seed miles' you read about that were built in the 19-teens and 20s? Those were isolated, 1-mile stretches of paved road to show folks what was possible. We all know how THAT turned out.
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IIRC, a big reason to switch to IC engines was the pollution by horses in the cities, manure & effluent etc.
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IIRC, a big reason to switch to IC engines was the pollution by horses in the cities, manure & effluent etc.
Imagine 100,000 horses working New York City each day in 1900 !!!
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So after the deadline has passed, all vehicles will run on PFM?
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Someone will have to train the German drunks not to piss on the 3rd rail buried in the street...... :evil:
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Also, don't forget that electric and steam cars were popular at the turn of the century, and gasoline was actually the less preferable way to go when you had to crank a vehicle by hand and have it possibly break your arm if it backfired.
But in the end it was the most convenient and easy to develop out of the three given the technologies available at the time. Technology is at the point now where internal combustion is reaching the maximum attainable efficiency. Internal combustion engines are about 35% efficient at the best of times. Electric is over 90% efficient. Internal combustion has dozens of moving parts, electrics have one. Electrics are off when stationary and they regenerate power when decelerating. Electricity is cents per kWh vs dollars per gallon. Other than lacking noise and vibration, there really isn't a downside to electric drive. Assuming we don't talk about batteries... :rolleyes:
But then I read today about how someone drove their tesla to the top of a mountain and parked it next to a radio tower, which proceeded to saturate the area with signals, which prevented the key fob from working. And in all their wisdom, Tesla made their car without any way of getting into it if your key fob isn't working.... They had to have a guy come out with one of those inflating pads and a wire hanger to get the car open so they could drive home after being stranded for five hours. All because the door handles wouldn't come out.
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The Tesla cars are awesome performers & electric vehicles have been kicking A as Pikes Peak Race in recent years.
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If you can get into it. :grin:
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As an interim strategy we could convert all vehicles to gas, but there are too many powerful men who have too much money invested in oil. I find all the global warming blather a bit hypocritical knowing that we COULD convert to gas. Now we're talking hydrocarbon emissions reductions. The big money interests have thus far thwarted such a move.
Electric vehicles depend on mass quantities of lithium. Fortunately for us, Afghanistan is to lithium as Saudi Arabia is to oil. Rare earth elements come with those deposits too. I think driverless will come before all electric. I will count my lucky stars that I lived in a time where you could steer, brake and shift your own vehicle.
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Someone will have to train the German drunks not to piss on the 3rd rail buried in the street...... :evil:
I think the drunks will train themselves, or just vacate the gene pool of their inate tendencies.
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I don't see where anyone has gathered the true meaning of this "click bait article", That it is completely misleading and is essentially false as presented.
The German Bundesrat voted for the ban, true. Germany also has the Bundesstag and a Prime Minister. These are essentially similar to our House, Senate and President. Our house of reps vote for a lot of things that will never happen, because they couldn't pass the Senate or get the President to sign them. This is a simliar vote. It has no real meaning, is not "law", and will not become law.
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Bbbbut it's so much fun to talk about.
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I don't see where anyone has gathered the true meaning of this "click bait article", That it is completely misleading and is essentially false as presented.
The German Bundesrat voted for the ban, true. Germany also has the Bundesstag and a Prime Minister. These are essentially similar to our House, Senate and President. Our house of reps vote for a lot of things that will never happen, because they couldn't pass the Senate or get the President to sign them. This is a simliar vote. It has no real meaning, is not "law", and will not become law.
This is wrong. The Bundesrat did not vote for a ban. They expressed an opinion. This has no legal consequences at all. And the opinion stemmed from our Green party (8.4 % election result at the last Bundestagswahl (general election). And the Mercedes - chairman Zetsche is already in a good discussion with them.
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The Tesla cars are awesome performers & electric vehicles have been kicking A as Pikes Peak Race in recent years.
Yes, until the batteries are discharged.Not too handy on a long trip and how long to recharge?...A IC engine has full power available until the fuel is exhausted...Then a brief period of refueling and it's ready again..
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Another little Tesla anecdote
My daughter's friend drove me home from the summer house once this summer, in his Tesla S. That's about 250 km, normally taking about three hours.
The car wasn't fully charged when we started. The first charger we stopped at wasn't working optimally. After half an hour's boredom we couldn't take staying in that spot any longer. The car needed another charge before we got home, taking another half hour plus.
True, IF the car was fully charged when we started (summer house on an island, no charging available) AND there had been a fast charger available closer to home, we would AT BEST have used the time of an internal combustion car.....
Another observation: The battery technology develops so fast that a new electric car depreciates much faster than an IC car.
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Tests find Rossi's E-Cat has an energy density at least 10 times higher than any conventional energy source
(http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2013/rossitests1.jpg)
(Phys.org) —In the ongoing saga of Andrea Rossi's energy catalyzer (E-Cat) that promises clean, cheap power for the world, the latest events continue to bring as many questions as answers. Several scientists have performed supposedly independent tests of two E-Cat prototypes under controlled conditions and using high-precision instrumentation. In a paper posted at arXiv.org, the researchers write that, even by the most conservative of measurements, the E-Cat produces excess heat with a resulting energy density that is at least 1 order of magnitude—and possibly several—higher than any other conventional energy source, including gasoline.
(http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2013/rossitests2.jpg)
Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-05-rossi-e-cat-energy-density-higher.html#jCp
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The E cat is completely bogus .
Dusty
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If that's what they're doing with energy, they're going about it a strange way. German coal use has gone up 40% in the last 5 years since they decided to do away with nuclear ... and they're planning for more.
Err... no.
Coal accounted for more than 50% of German electricity generation until 2006. The 44% of today is actually a decline in its use.
Coal use in German electricity production after Fukushima continued his steady decline in absolute terms, and more rapid decline in relative terms. The decline in nuclear production (15% of electricity generation in 2015) had been more than offset by the increase of renewables (that accounted for 31% of German electricity generation in 2015, they accounted only for 10% in 2006).
Germany is a net exporter of electricity. Like all the neighbours, Germany imports nuclear energy from France by night, when the consumption, and so the price of the energy, is so low that that is convenient to reduce the production of thermoelectric plants to the bare minimum above shutting them down, but not so for the nuclear plants whose costs structures (very high fixed costs and low variable costs) impose to them to produce anyway.
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The E cat is completely bogus .
Dusty
Your bogus moron.
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Third party E-Cat test :evil:
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1305/1305.3913.pdf
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Germany is getting ever so close to becoming completely energy independent, as well as sustainable.
http://www.sciencealert.com/last-sunday-95-percent-of-germany-s-energy-was-provided-by-renewables
Germany actually came third. It already happened in Spain and Italy that the daily energy production had been covered 100% by renewables. Obviously that's possible only in exceptional conditions by now (a sunday with a lot of wind and sun). It's more significant that the renewables covered more than 50% (50.5%) of the italian energy production in the entire month of june 2016.
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Your bogus moron.
Whose bogus moron :huh: Quoting unsubstantiated non-peer reviewed internet articles does not make this unworkable piece of trickery a viable source of energy . Like the carburetor that produced fuel mileage figures of 100 MPG it breaks the laws of physics , and since I am pretty sure it will take someone much smarter than this Rossi guy to even "bend" those laws, yes , bogus still applies .
Dusty
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Mercedes and BMW will have to manufacture somewhere else ???
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Mercedes and BMW will have to manufacture somewhere else ???
You mean like Poland , or the U.S. ??? :laugh:
Dusty
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While we're at it find a way to transmit electric power other than through wires. We haven't progressed much since Thomas Edison's days.
Dean
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Makes me wanna roll some coal!!!
Three pages, and no one's talking about a steam Guzzi conversion!? As long as the pistons form a V.
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Whose bogus moron :huh: Quoting unsubstantiated non-peer reviewed internet articles does not make this unworkable piece of trickery a viable source of energy . Like the carburetor that produced fuel mileage figures of 100 MPG it breaks the laws of physics , and since I am pretty sure it will take someone much smarter than this Rossi guy to even "bend" those laws, yes , bogus still applies .
Dusty
This discussion reminds me of the days when I was a patent examiner. Some dude came up from Florida with a "working model" of a Chevy V-8 that started out on gasoline but when the exhaust manifold got "really hot" it would use that heat to break water into hydrogen and oxygen and run off of WATER.
He showed up, everyone gathered around his trailer, the 350 Chevy had one of those old school round metal air filter housings with a snorkel off one end of it. He cranked it and cranked it, it never started, and then WATER started running out of the snorkel. Someone in the crowd said "I think you flooded it". Hilarity ensued. No patent issued.
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"I think you flooded it." Now that is funny :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Dusty
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Seems like this is how most "Energy" threads go ....
Selective statistics pretending that "Peak" charts represent the mean somehow, ignoring real, industrial, and government subsidy costs of power, then the trotting out of:
1) Hydrolysis
2) Catalytic converters putting out more power than goes in
3) Compressed air motors that will drive a car 100 miles on a 75 cent charge of air from a service station
4) Cold fusion
5) 200 MPG carburetors being suppressed by the oil companies.
How much energy does one spend fighting the Munchausen syndrome? I need a recharge, myself.
Lannis
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Quote from: Antietam Classic Cycle on October 12, 2016, 12:05:24 PM (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=86471.msg1363504#msg1363504)Will be interesting to see how they replace such things as heavy truck and construction equipment i.c. engines (just to name two) with electric.
All electric.
(http://www.jshonk.com/wp-content/gallery/muskie/bigm.jpg)
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My understanding is that advances in battery technology allow for a doubling in capacity roughly every 7 years , or has historically . This rate of improvement may slow down as we reach a plateau , so allowing for some variance , let's say a doubling from current (bad pun) levels of capacity every 10 years , in about 30 years we will have truly useful electric vehicles.
Dusty
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All electric.
(http://www.jshonk.com/wp-content/gallery/muskie/bigm.jpg)
But it doesn't have to be mobile, so can be powered by a huge power cable tether.
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I don't see where anyone has gathered the true meaning of this "click bait article"...
You missed my posts. :)
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You missed my posts. :)
Don't feel bad Jim , several of us pointed out the facts ...
Dusty
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"No new combustion engine cars are to be allowed on the roads after 2030". Well that leaves one loop hole, and even if they close that imagen what our well kept bikes might be worth than, assuming they still allow petrol to be sold. On the other hand maybe we'll be riding jet bikes like Star Wars.
Lack of fuel could make it difficult owners of vintage vehicles to use them anymore.
Might have to build a still to make methanol, and re-jet the carbs to run on it.
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If I could figure a way of capturing, storing and converting to enegy all the Horse shit talked by politicians and the secondary chicken shit flung up in discussing their horse shit I recon I'd have the energy crisis solved and if that fails then I'd have a guess I could coax a Harley to run on pig shit.
Don't worry theres always a solution around the corner.
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Lack of fuel could make it difficult owners of vintage vehicles to use them anymore.
Might have to build a still to make methanol, and re-jet the carbs to run on it.
Gasoline can be made synthetically (from coal or from natural gas). If the price of petrol rise above a certain level, is actually convenient.
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If I could figure a way of capturing, storing and converting to enegy all the Horse shit talked by politicians and the secondary chicken shit flung up in discussing their horse shit I recon I'd have the energy crisis solved and if that fails then I'd have a guess I could coax a Harley to run on pig shit.
Already in the plan ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu79ghchX3E
Lannis
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I can't be the only one here who thought of this the second he read the OP:
Red Barchetta (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjjNvjURS-s)
:bike-037:
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Gasoline can be made synthetically (from coal or from natural gas). If the price of petrol rise above a certain level, is actually convenient.
I'm sure if the EPA, and equivalent across the world didn't want ICE (internal combustion engine) powered vehicles on road any more, they'd just legislate it so. It will like happen someday.
I can't be the only one here who thought of this the second he read the OP:
Red Barchetta (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjjNvjURS-s)
:bike-037:
Nope. I did too.
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Rush: Red Barchetta (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAvQSkK8Z8U)
Uh buddy, you're 4 minutes late with that... granted, maybe I should have identified the link.
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While we're at it find a way to transmit electric power other than through wires. We haven't progressed much since Thomas Edison's days.
Dean
There's a big physics problem with any means other than wires for moving electrical power. Electrons confined to a helpful medium (wire) behave in good order and move efficiently from place to place. If sent without such a confinement, they spread equally in all directions in at least three dimensions (quantum mechanics says four or five at least) and dissipate incredibly quickly due to the inverse-square law (if projected in a specific direction) or even inverse-cube (in the case of a radio-like broadcast of energy).
Broadcast power was a popular concept in science fiction in the 20s, 30s and 40s, especially because radio and television gave the idea of moving energy through the air. Some Buck Rogers dreams came true, but not this one...
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I can't be the only one here who thought of this the second he read the OP:
Red Barchetta (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjjNvjURS-s)
:bike-037:
Best Rush song ever (and that's a hard thing to manage!).
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But it doesn't have to be mobile, so can be powered by a huge power cable tether.
Big internal diesel generators for electricity??? like the electric drive beeeg dump trucks.
https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVjss1_9XYkkAHTcnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEyM3J2dWgyBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjI1ODBfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=Electric+Drive+Dump+Truck&fr=yhs-mozilla-003&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-003
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Something I wrote a long time ago, in a galaxy far away. When diesel prices go up again (and they will someday), diesel-electric hybrid and overhead wires will look practical.
https://solartoday.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/trucking-plans-for-a-railroaded-future/#more-3 (https://solartoday.wordpress.com/2008/04/15/trucking-plans-for-a-railroaded-future/#more-3)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bMVQRF/bp_road_train_aus_outback_370x2001.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bMVQRF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hYVs6F/trolleybus.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hYVs6F)
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Might have to build a still to make methanol, and re-jet the carbs to run on it.
Ethanol is a lot easier to make, and safer to handle.
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Big internal diesel generators for electricity??? like the electric drive beeeg dump trucks.
https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVjss1_9XYkkAHTcnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEyM3J2dWgyBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjI1ODBfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=Electric+Drive+Dump+Truck&fr=yhs-mozilla-003&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-003
Big Muskie was pictured by Wayne.
"Big Muskie was powered by electricity supplied at 13,800 volts via a trailing cable, which had its own transporter/coiling units to move it."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Muskie
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Would make sense since it uses a lot of electricity and pretty much stays stationary.
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Would make sense since it uses a lot of electricity and pretty much stays stationary.
It was scrapped in place when they closed the strip mine it was working.
Too expensive to disassemble and transport. And, too expensive to operate.
It could "walk" at 0.1 mph, when it needed to relocate within the mine!
:shocked:
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(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic003/horsefeathers_zpswvqnrzgq.jpg)
Hope they love horses. :boozing:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic003/horse%20grooming%20tattoo_zpsmk7gvarr.jpg)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic003/horse-buggy-amish_zpsozn1d7iy.jpg)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic003/coaches%20sm_zpsrvcj3qwv.jpg)
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Concerning haulage, I dont think the future is rail.
In one possible future:
Future trucks will be on the road. They wont have drivers and will form road trains. So they kind of drive them selves. For cost reasons they travel pretty slowly (30-40mph) but will they be all electric and will they lack a human operator? unlikely. in built up areas electric power would be feasible but for longer distance no. For logicstics, security and maintenance you would need a human with a set of trucks. The operator could quite possibly even likely travel with a small scooter/ motorbike so he could travel to meet up with trucks for shift hand over or when trucks enter/ leave his area.
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Concerning haulage, I dont think the future is rail.
In one possible future:
Future trucks will be on the road. They wont have drivers and will form road trains. So they kind of drive them selves. For cost reasons they travel pretty slowly (30-40mph) but will they be all electric and will they lack a human operator? unlikely. in built up areas electric power would be feasible but for longer distance no. For logicstics, security and maintenance you would need a human with a set of trucks. The operator could quite possibly even likely travel with a small scooter/ motorbike so he could travel to meet up with trucks for shift hand over or when trucks enter/ leave his area.
From the perspective of someone who is involved in transportation for a major USA corporation, I don't understand your post.
Rail is most definitely the future. Railroads are working to expand double-stack intermodal capacity in The USA. Everything that can go on rail currently goes on rail. That's usually anything moving more than 500 miles, and/or arriving/departing metros with intermodal hubs.
Perishables and time-sensitive freight is all that is OTR on long-haul runs. I'm looking at 86 loads shipping today and half of them are going intermodal. Of the 44 OTR shipments, 26 are short-haul under 500-miles. The remainder of the OTR shipments are time-sensitive and must go OTR. The OTR shipments are going to 12 destinations from 3 origins.
Unmanned road trains are a pipe dream.
As you mentioned, security is an issue. Theft is a big problem with current OTR operations. Unmanned would be a nightmare.
And, there is the safety issue, or issues. Slow moving "road trains" on crowded interstate highways which have 60mph to 80mph speed limits? That would do wonders for everyone's safety! Then you have the real possibility of breakdowns to deal with, and no one there to handle the situation.
Popular Science! LOL!
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Big Muskie was pictured by Wayne.
"Big Muskie was powered by electricity supplied at 13,800 volts via a trailing cable, which had its own transporter/coiling units to move it."
I saw it up close in the mine it was working in when I was a kid. My mother's family lived near those strip mines. The cable was three strands of rubber jacketed copper wire, a couple inches in diameter each, and twisted together. My uncle, a muscular brick layer, told me to get a photo of him picking it up, but when he tried, it wouldn't budge. I have a color slide of it somewhere in the archives, showing him not picking up the cable.
If I had the slightest inkling it carried 13.8 kv, I wouldn't have gotten anywhere near it, but I was only 11 and assumed it was something like 240 vac.
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Road trains are used, or were used in Australia. A tractor and X number of trailers. If I remember they were only used in the remote areas.
Any Aussies ever see one in person?
Tom
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Common Outback, too big for settled areas where B-doubles
Play. I'm not a trucker, don't know the economics of truckdom
But it would be hard to imagine trucks being better long distance.
Driverless trucks : Bushrangers Delight.
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Whose bogus moron :huh: Quoting unsubstantiated non-peer reviewed internet articles does not make this unworkable piece of trickery a viable source of energy . Like the carburetor that produced fuel mileage figures of 100 MPG it breaks the laws of physics , and since I am pretty sure it will take someone much smarter than this Rossi guy to even "bend" those laws, yes , bogus still applies .
Dusty
:evil:
Peer Review - 3rd Party Verification for Andrea Rossi E-Cat released by Cornell University.
Indication of anomalous heat energy production in a reactor device
An experimental investigation of possible anomalous heat production in a special type of reactor tube named E-Cat HT is carried out. The reactor tube is charged with a small amount of hydrogen loaded nickel powder plus some additives. The reaction is primarily initiated by heat from resistor coils inside the reactor tube. Measurement of the produced heat was performed with high-resolution thermal imaging cameras, recording data every second from the hot reactor tube. The measurements of electrical power input were performed with a large bandwidth three-phase power analyzer. Data were collected in two experimental runs lasting 96 and 116 hours, respectively. An anomalous heat production was indicated in both experiments. The 116-hour experiment also included a calibration of the experimental set-up without the active charge present in the E-Cat HT. In this case, no extra heat was generated beyond the expected heat from the electric input. Computed volumetric and gravimetric energy densities were found to be far above those of any known chemical source. Even by the most conservative assumptions as to the errors in the measurements, the result is still one order of magnitude greater than conventional energy sources.
https://arxiv.org/abs/1305.3913v3
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1305/1305.3913.pdf
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Nickel – the ultimate substitute of Coal, Oil and Uranium
1. Introduction
With reference to the current [1-6] and old [7] review
reports, one can understand the current ‘golden status’ and
old ‘Pathetic status’ of Cold fusion or Low energy nuclear
interactions (LENR). Since 1989 scientists proposed several
interesting proposals for understanding the observed excess
heat generation with various experimental setups [8-18].
Many researchers and scientists around the world have
reported successful experiments at a number of international
conferences, and selected articles are collected in an on-line
data base. The results, however, have not been taken
seriously by main stream science, even after full support by
two Nobel laureates, Julian Schwinger and Brian Josephson.
Julian Schwinger (1918-1994), a Nobel prize winner in
Physics, 1965, who also worked with Oppenheimer, was a
strong advocate of cold fusion [19]. Brian Josephson, a
Nobel prize winner in Physics, 1973, is a discoverer of the
Josephon effect in the field of superconductivity. He is
presently a strong supporter of cold fusion [20].
These new interactions are exclusively based on ‘excess
heat generation’ and are absolutely free from the currently
believed alpha, beta and gamma radiations. Experts believe
that, LENR could use 1% of the Nickel mined to produce
current world energy at a price four times cheaper than coal.
Joseph Zawodny, a senior research scientist with NASA ’s
Langley Research Center says: “It has the demonstrated
ability to produce excess amounts of energy , cleanly ,
without hazardous ionizing radiation, without producing
nasty waste”. It is not a surprise to say that, very soon LENR
will dominate all the current leading research areas of
physics in the near future.
Andrea Rossi says: “one gram of Nickel is equivalent to
5,00,000 liters of oil”. As there is no emission of the alpha,
beta and gamma radiation, as there is no emission of other
gasses like SO2,CO2 etc, as Nickel abundance is high in the
earth core and as the technical risk of power generation is
less, E-CAT seems to be the best and ultimate green power
generator in coming future. Very interesting information is
that Mr and Mrs Bill Gates are planning to fund Italy’s
ENEA for LENR/Cold fusion technology. In this paper
authors made an attempt to understand the working
mechanism of heat generation in the E-CAT.
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/files/Nickel%20-%20The%20ultimate%20substitute%20of%20coal,%20oil%20and%20uranium.pdf
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Would you like a like to where you can buy plans for a $49 Tesla generator too? lol
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Would you like a like to where you can buy plans for a $49 Tesla generator too? lol
Suck, squeeze, bang, blow :weiner:
(http://i65.tinypic.com/vh9d29.png)
Drag Tractor vs Steam Engine -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLQhvruimfs
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Where in hell are you finding this fake BS ?????
Dusty
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Where in hell are you finding this fake BS ?????
Dusty
LENR Testing at NASA Langley -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtHR1NCzeKU
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Here's a video of a Cold Fusion/ LENR device called the NANOR at M.I.T. It is a small, low temperature, classroom research model invented by Mitchell Swartz and has been monitored at the classroom of Professor Peter Hagelstein at M.I.T. for five months, (video was made May 2012) producing 10 - 14 times more energy than it takes to run it.
Cold Fusion/ LENR device at M.I.T. -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAA2ssOV5z4
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Yep, it's on the internet so its gots to be true!!!
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Yep, it's on the internet so its gots to be true!!!
Yep , this is a case of one fake video being used to support another fake video . Good Grief , please make it stop .
Dusty
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goodness knows students and academia have never been know to post false or misleading information for their own entertainment..
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Where in hell are you finding this fake BS ?????
Dusty
This is why I carefully avoided the term 'cold fusion' in my earlier post! :wink:
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Its true! New self-regenerating energy system to eliminate all pollution!
The goverment is investing in new car designs to use this fabulous breakthrough .....
Never have to refuel ever again! Amazing!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic003/New_pollution%20free%20auto_zpsrgsmivnp.jpg)
:grin:
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Yep, it's on the internet so its gots to be true!!!
(http://www.relatably.com/q/img/abraham-lincoln-quotes-internet/abraham-lincoln-quote-internet-hoax-fake-450x293.jpg)
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(http://www.relatably.com/q/img/abraham-lincoln-quotes-internet/abraham-lincoln-quote-internet-hoax-fake-450x293.jpg)
The internet just makes it easier to spread nonsense , at least pre net it took some effort :laugh:
Dusty
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:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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:laugh: :grin: :laugh: :grin: :laugh: :grin: :laugh: :grin: :laugh: :grin: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :grin: :grin: :laugh: :grin:
I fart in their general direction
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Cummins introduces a new engine.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/cummins-introduces-new-x15-heavy-duty-engines/ar-AAiVavV#image=AAiVavS|1
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Meanwhile in the UK they are concidering exempting electric cars from one way systems in clean air zones.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37654584 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37654584)
I probably misinterpreted this but 'It's called a Clean air zone, there are one way systems that apply to poluting vehicles to make them drive further? Rich twits in there Teslas can zoom up one way streets the wrong way Legally?' No surel I'm probably just to stupid to understand this sensible proposal.
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Meanwhile in the UK they are concidering exempting electric cars from one way systems in clean air zones.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37654584 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37654584)
I probably misinterpreted this but 'It's called a Clean air zone, there are one way systems that apply to poluting vehicles to make them drive further? Rich twits in there Teslas can zoom up one way streets the wrong way Legally?' No surel I'm probably just to stupid to understand this sensible proposal.
I suspect the one-way systems are to reduce the stop-and-go traffic, which would reduce pollution. However, I can't see a benefit to anyone in allowing a special portion of the cars to go counter-flow, since it would reduce the efficiency of the one-way (unless there's a bus lane or something they would share).