Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: moshe_levy on October 30, 2016, 06:07:04 PM
-
All-
This week's Moto Mouth focuses on the controversial issue of riding motorcycles when you still have young kids at home. Some give up riding altogether. Some curtail it. And some keep on going.... How did you handle it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnV5vW92RF8
-MKL
-
All-
This week's Moto Mouth focuses on the controversial issue of riding motorcycles when you still have young kids at home. Some give up riding altogether. Some curtail it. And some keep on going.... How did you handle it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnV5vW92RF8
-MKL
I rode a lot and had (have) plenty of life insurance. No problem.
-
When I adopted my daughter, the only thing that slowed down was riding 2 up with the wife. Figured I didn't want us both to be wiped out in one shot. I've had a high risk job for 28 years, so it seemed silly to dwell on my motorcycle riding hobby as dangerous. Life is a risk, might as well live it. If something bad happens, my wife and her new boyfriend, and daughter will be very comfortable. The fact is, and it's hard for alot of dudes to admit, your family will live on without you. Instead of quitting riding, make damn sure they'll be taken care of.
Ride on!
-
Stopped riding 2 up. Stopped riding until the children were around 18 months. Before that it was just cruel to leave Cathy with the little, very dependent one(s) while I whooped it up. After about 18 months she encouraged me to ride since it results in good vibes all round. 7 figure life insurance and Blue Cross just in case.
-
When my first wife got pregnant she quite riding and I got better life insurance and kept riding. Been riding since I was 9 years old and have no plans to stop. Kids will be fine with out my old arse around.
-
Ms LD disallowed until kids were well into college. Could not handle me going back to riding when they were small.
We were constantly transferring anyway, so we were broke and adjusting all the time.
-
Ms LD disallowed until kids were well into college. Could not handle me going back to riding when they were small.
We were constantly transferring anyway, so we were broke and adjusting all the time.
Nobody EVER "disallowed" me anything.
-
If I was worried about riding, I wouldn't do it, kids or no kids.
Otherwise, I would ride.
-
When I started dating my future wife I told her that riding was an integral part of my life.
Had a discussion about riding when starting a family and told her I would not stop riding. She agreed
and knows that I ride ATGATT and am as safe and careful as one can be.
Life is too short to not do what you want to do. The best we can do is manage the risk.
Yes, I had and do have a good life insurance policy.
Only you can make the decision. There is no right or wrong answer.
Rides safe and often,
Jeff
-
Are you also considering giving downhill skiing, bicycling, drinking, smoking, your car, or boating? Each activity has a level of risk that you have to weight against your desire to engage in the activity. Are you riding well within your skills on "safe" two lane roads or doing trying to hang on the pack's tail during rush hour on a "dangerous" LA freeway? Nic and Cam both make great points - if you are no longer there (for whatever reason) will your family be okay financially?
Personally - I did not quit riding since a motorcycle was my primary commuting vehicle at the time. (I had an old beater car too but it was pretty unreliable.) I had an accident when my son was about three or four. I washed out in some sand at a parking lot edge and dumped my bike. At my blistering 3 mph pace, I skinned up my glove, a foot peg, and my ego. Her reaction upon hearing of my mishap was poorly suppressed laughter (she is a 100% non-rider). I rode to work the next day...and I'll ride to work tomorrow.
OTOH - My neighbor loved to ride back in his early 20's. His wife's cousin was killed in a motorcycle accident during their courtship (44+ years ago). She absolutely forbid that he continue riding as a condition of their marriage. He agreed and has stayed true to his word. He often walks over if I have my bike out. I'm not sure he's still happy with his choice.
Might want to also get your significant other's take on things.
-
I picked more Life insurance and accident insurance also added an Eldo/hack to the fleet. The fleet was part of my background when the Boss and I were dating.
-
I started riding at 9, and giving up riding was never an option really. My kids grew up on the back of my bikes and helped that my wife liked pillion duty..
Of course when the kids were little and needing more attention, my riding was curtailed, and most was in my commute, or the occasional half day ride. I also curbed the 'farkles' and as for $$, I always kept my hobby $$ separate, and self funded. Flipped a couple garage/barn finds a year.
I had seen many friends give up riding when they started dating or got married, so I was very upfront about it from day one so the old story book of 'she made me sell it when we had kids' was headed off. I talked about it when we started dating, when we got engaged, when she got pregnant. There were a few years she expressed her worries and I honored them by limiting my riding and took extra precautions, but stopping was off the table. Good insurance (life & health), Responsible riding and ATGATT are all givens.
Every relationship is different, two way respect is a must, and you have to put the marriage above all else, but when a hobby predates the relationship it is unfair to demand that it be given up. It would be different if some muldoon comes home after being married a few years and a couple kids and announces he is buying a motorcycle and his wife forbids. In that case, I would side with the wife.
There is an old joke that goes: "a woman marries a man she hopes she can change him, when a man marries a woman he hopes she never changes.... and they both end up sadly disappointed" :whip2: :thewife: :violent1:
This is the bike I've had since 1984. Got married in 1985 and first kid came in 1988. I rode this exclusively until 1996 when I bought a Kawasaki Concours. Still have it, this pic was taken 2 years ago. 127K miles (I think) All original other than paint, pads, hoses, fluids. A few years ago, the earthquake that shook Northern VA tossed the bike around and the right header and muffler got damaged, so Geico bought me a new exhaust.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/j87NOv/IMG_1189.jpg) (http://ibb.co/j87NOv)
free
image
hosting (http://imgbb.com/)
-
Stopped for quite a few years when the kids were young. Not because the wife forbid it, it was financial. Bought a house, cars, braces and all the other family stuff. 17 years without a bike then picked up a used Triumph Thunderbird 8 years ago. The wife wasn't happy about it but didn't say no. Always wanted a MG but it wasn't in the cards until a couple years ago and bought a Cali 1400. And life is good.
-
Nobody EVER "disallowed" me anything.
:thumb:
-
I cut back significantly, several years without riding followed by several with little riding. Did i miss it yes, would i do it that way again yes. There were many reasons, wife didn't want me riding (she's had her own and ridden many miles on the back of mine to rallies and have the two-ups to show for it), I didn't want to chance it. To me it was more important to be around for my kids than to take a chance that someone else would do something stupid and either injure or kill me. Insurance can replace the financial loss, but it can't make up for growing up without a dad. That i can say from personal experience. YMMV When my youngest was 12 I bought the stone and started riding heavy again and that lasted until about 6 years ago when we bought our first RV and riding time decreased in summer and increased in winter.
-
I quit riding for about 12-13 years. That was a mistake. Giving up something that I loved doing changed me somehow.
-
I didn't quit, but I probably rode more conservatively. I broke a leg pretty badly in a ski race when the kid was 8 months old -- knock on wood, my ski accidents have been far worse than my motorcycle crashes.
She began riding pillion around age five. By that time she had been skiing for two winters, and before that riding on my back while I skied.
And there was flying, too. She made her first trips as a Cessna passenger before she could walk, and later was my Comanche co-pilot for a couple of hundred hours, I guess.
She rides a scooter, and owns my old stick-shift Subaru, but has no interest in riding her own motorcycle, or getting a pilot's license. But man, she can ski.
-
Jill has never tried to change or curtail my riding, but she has forbid our daughter from riding pillion. Amelie wanted to go on the back since age six, she's 11 now and would still like to do it....sad thing is we are approaching the time where she won't want to....oh well.
-
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic003/irony_zpslupkfell.jpg)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic003/whatever_zps64vaadoi.jpg)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic003/time-flies_zpspk2psjra.gif)
-
I never stopped. Even with no life insurance.
-
If you have kids then don't ever ride in your car, fly in a plane, visit Chicago, eat butter or even go to church as people get killed there. With this reasoning we wouldn't have any police, firemen or service members that have kids.
I have 4 daughters and I never stopped riding nor did I stop from driving truck hauling extremely hazardous material. OH NO.
No life insurance or mortgage insurance. If I'm dead, some friendly Henry will take care of you.
"My wife forbade me." I'd brag about sex in prison before I'd say that.
Carefree,
Tex
-
Well, there are several 'kinds' of 'riding'. My bike was our second car so yes, I kept riding it. Used for commuting and errands. Never went on any "rides" since helping take care of the kids was my responsibility too. Neither of us took separate 'vacations' or such until after the kids were nearly grown. Wife had been in a bike accident in her teens so would not ride. And kids never got the bug either.
I went without a bike for about 20 years. Got sports cars instead. Then the bug hit me and I got another bike. Almost for the same reason, commuting mainly. But, this time I started using it for therapy from my higher pressure job so would weekend rides as well as a trip or two a year.
Now it is mainly for pleasure but I also find I am not riding that much, probably once a week or so.
Never considered it from the risk standpoint. I guess being in the military does that ;) I always have had good insurance, something drilled into me by my father.
-
Good responses guys, thanks.
Remember please that by definition, we're in a motorcycle forum, which is likely filled with (mostly) active riders. Obviously, as you saw in the video, I didn't stop riding either. And most of the folks in here, again by definition, are riders as well. But - for every one of us that kept going, there are over 25 that dropped out for many years. This has huge implications for the industry at large - which is what makes it such a controversial issue. I've received about 43x more feedback on this vid than any product review. People are passionate about it, it seems....
-MKL
-
Had kids and left them a few times with their cousins, but they missed us. So, put a two passenger sidecar on the Hondapottamaus and tugged a trailer and the whole family rode. Problem solved until the Mrs decided it wasn't fun anymore without the danger of falling off. They say it is a woman's prerogative to change her mind and so it was. She is no longer the Mrs and I have never quit riding.
-
My wife was a widow when I met here, with two daughters and a son. I never met their father; I fed them. Here's the point: Just cause you're dead doesn't mean someone else won't think your woman is hot enough to take up the baton.
Life goes on without you.
-
I suppose anyone is entitled to be flip about the risk, but it is very, very real, and actuarially much more serious and potentially lethal than most other adventurous pursuits. The data just doesn't lie.
And as my late internist father said about motorbikes (I grew up around an ER), "it doesn't have to do with you—it's everyone else that makes it so dangerous."
So when it comes to family and kids, there is no debating the simple fact that you're putting yourself in harm's way, for your own joy, satisfaction, passion, identity, compulsion, self-actualisation, or whatever else. And your spouse and kids can be left holding the bag.
Not judging. That's just the reality.
I happened to wait until the kids were a bit older, we had our feet on the ground a bit financially, and were decently insured. Life insurance—especially when you're younger—isn't outrageous. I kinda think it's like the least you can do if you have dependents.
But I'd also say the most important thing is to enjoy every moment on your bike—kids or not—while simultaneously riding with your conscience, and awareness of your own mortality riding pillion.
Wear ATGATT. Slow down. Care for and respect your machine like it's a loaded firearm. Try to mitigate risk in where, when and how you ride. Trust no cage—they are all out to kill you, whether they intend to or not.
Life is much more enjoyable when you arrive home safely to kiss your wife and kids, rather than them arriving to see you in an ER or God-forbid somewhere else.
This, BTW, from a guy who started on a Vespa and now has a 3-bike garage, and has ridden on and off road in New England, Utah and Mexico.
-
I suppose anyone is entitled to be flip about the risk, but it is very, very real, and actuarially much more serious and potentially lethal than most other adventurous pursuits. The data just doesn't lie.
And as my late internist father said about motorbikes (I grew up around an ER), "it doesn't have to do with you�it's everyone else that makes it so dangerous."
So when it comes to family and kids, there is no debating the simple fact that you're putting yourself in harm's way, for your own joy, satisfaction, passion, identity, compulsion, self-actualisation, or whatever else. And your spouse and kids can be left holding the bag.
Not judging. That's just the reality.
I happened to wait until the kids were a bit older, we had our feet on the ground a bit financially, and were decently insured. Life insurance�especially when you're younger�isn't outrageous. I kinda think it's like the least you can do if you have dependents.
But I'd also say the most important thing is to enjoy every moment on your bike�kids or not�while simultaneously riding with your conscience, and awareness of your own mortality riding pillion.
Wear ATGATT. Slow down. Care for and respect your machine like it's a loaded firearm. Try to mitigate risk in where, when and how you ride. Trust no cage�they are all out to kill you, whether they intend to or not.
Life is much more enjoyable when you arrive home safely to kiss your wife and kids, rather than them arriving to see you in an ER or God-forbid somewhere else.
This, BTW, from a guy who started on a Vespa and now has a 3-bike garage, and has ridden on and off road in New England, Utah and Mexico.
Well said
-
Never missed any time at all riding. Had my daughter out on my 3 wheeler when she was just a couple months old. It was one of the few things that would make her stop crying as she had digestive problems.
Both kids learned to ride as soon as they possibly could.
I actually used to race short track when the kids were very young.
-
One of the funniest episodes of the citcom "King of Queens" is when Doug's (Kevin James) dominant overbearing wife "FORBIDS" ("Disallowes) him from buying a motorcycle (no kids involved). So, of course he does it anyway and ends up hating it (crashes, rained in, etc.) so much he sells it to get bonus points with her. His wife feels so guilty she buys it back.
Look up the episode, you'll laugh your ass off!
-
Like Cam, I had a rather high risk job when my kids were young. The only thing that kept me off motorcycles was an occasional breakdown. Both of my kids have motorcycle endorsements, but neither of them have bikes at present. My son and I have had a few accidents; nearly all were very minor (though I did break a few bones back in '05). Doing repairs was actually one of the things that bonded my son and me (along with cycling, shooting, fishing, and backpacking). I just couldn't allow myself to lie to my kids about who I was...
-
Started riding at 19 and have never stopped. Married a woman with two young kids (5&9) when I was 32, adopted them. New wife started riding her own bike right after the wedding. We took the kids with us, trips, bike rallies and daily commuting. I picked up the kids from school and day care on the bike. Same for the wife. Now retired with six grand kids and one great grand kid. Still riding, wife had to start riding a scooter due to serious health issues. Grand kids still ride with both of us as often as we still travel or to local events like bike nights and such. Never even contemplated stopping. Wont until we simply cant physically do it any longer. Riding and bikes are just a big part of who we are and what we enjoy doing. God, family, country and motorcycles are our American dream.
-
If you have kids then don't ever ride in your car, fly in a plane, visit Chicago, eat butter or even go to church as people get killed there. With this reasoning we wouldn't have any police, firemen or service members that have kids.
I have 4 daughters and I never stopped riding nor did I stop from driving truck hauling extremely hazardous material. OH NO.
No life insurance or mortgage insurance. If I'm dead, some friendly Henry will take care of you.
"My wife forbade me." I'd brag about sex in prison before I'd say that.
Carefree,
Tex
we have a winner
-
"My wife forbade me." I'd brag about sex in prison before I'd say that.
Carefree,
Tex
:1:
-
You guys are just so swaggering cool. Balls of steel and all that. Seen this same thread on various motorcycle forums over the years.
Meaningless drivel. We all have our own lives. We all make our own decisions.
-
Agreed. That's why I used the term "motorcycle family." For me it was a family thing, because she rode with me. She decided to stop on her own when we had kids, but never issued any sort of ultimatum to me - that wouldn't have ended well, anyway. But for many (most?) guys, it's just them - their wives aren't on board to begin with, and it turns into an issue when kids are introduced into the picture....
-MKL
-
I suppose anyone is entitled to be flip about the risk, but it is very, very real, and actuarially much more serious and potentially lethal than most other adventurous pursuits. The data just doesn't lie.
And as my late internist father said about motorbikes (I grew up around an ER), "it doesn't have to do with you—it's everyone else that makes it so dangerous."
So when it comes to family and kids, there is no debating the simple fact that you're putting yourself in harm's way, for your own joy, satisfaction, passion, identity, compulsion, self-actualisation, or whatever else. And your spouse and kids can be left holding the bag.
The data doesn't lie?
Or the data is imperfect.
The data doesn't tend to separate things like what's the risk for a newbie vs. the risk for a 20 year veteran of the sport?
What's the data for someone riding in commuter traffic in a densely populated area vs. someone riding mid-day, mid-week, in a state forest?
What the data on someone who has a couple of drinks and rides well above the speed limit vs. someone completely sober riding more or less?
The data may not "lie" per se, but a hell of a lot of the people quoting it probably have no idea how applicable it is to a given situation.
Sure high level maybe skiing or snowboarding isn't in THEORY as dangerous as riding motorcycles or say racing cars (tell that to the family of Michael Schumacher, I bet the data will be very consoling).
My wife and I train in martial arts, we ski/snowboard, we scuba dive, we ride, they're all activities we chose to participate in WHILE taking the best steps we can to mitigate the risks. We won't pretend there are no risks, but we're also not going to try and hide in a cocoon. Instead we'll try and teach, by example, our kids to live their lives and considering the ROI for their actions.
-
Agreed. That's why I used the term "motorcycle family." For me it was a family thing, because she rode with me. She decided to stop on her own when we had kids, but never issued any sort of ultimatum to me - that wouldn't have ended well, anyway. But for many (most?) guys, it's just them - their wives aren't on board to begin with, and it turns into an issue when kids are introduced into the picture....
-MKL
I've got a little tradition that I consider a middle-finger to the ultra-conservative risk avoiders.
Whenever I've heard that my wife was expecting I went out and bought another bike.
When Jenn was pregnant with our first I bought HER a new bike - a Ducati, because she wanted it and I figured if she was going to ride pregnant I might as well get her a bike with ABS.
Fiona has ridden that Ducati with mom about 1000 miles so far, all in utero.
Seamus too, though not quite as many miles.
-
Like Cam, I had a rather high risk job when my kids were young. The only thing that kept me off motorcycles was an occasional breakdown. Both of my kids have motorcycle endorsements, but neither of them have bikes at present. My son and I have had a few accidents; nearly all were very minor (though I did break a few bones back in '05). Doing repairs was actually one of the things that bonded my son and me (along with cycling, shooting, fishing, and backpacking). I just couldn't allow myself to lie to my kids about who I was...
"I just couldn't allow myself to lie to my kids about who I was..." === aptly put.
There ya go. That's not about "being flip", Joliet Jim. That's about being a man for your son.
I have a sticker on my KLR says "Safety Third".
-
Good topic and very relevant as I have 3 kids under 5. youngest is 5 mos. and here's the kicker I'm 51. Yes, I still ride, but its not that I haven't pondered that question from time to time. I do try to limit my exposure to accidents by avoiding riding at night, avoiding our insane interstate, and always wear protective gear. However sometimes I must admit I push the limits a bit because I simply love the feeling of sliding the tires a bit in a corner. When I do that, is when I begin to question whether I really should be taking those risks. If my wife did ask me to stop I would because I love her more than I love riding the motorcycle, so for those guys who respected their wives feelings, I'm with you. Riding a motorcycle is not my way of life, it's just something I do for fun. When it's not fun, I'll do something else as I have many other interests.
-
I think it's wonderful that the reviewer took on this topic.
Great work and a mighty fine discussion here.
-
Risk management vs. risk avoidance - applies to motorcycling or virtually any other aspect of life/business.
If you feel uncomfortable managing the risk, then you should avoid it, not for others, but for yourself. If you get nervous about riding and can't enjoy it because you're too worried about leaving wifey or kids behind w/o daddy...then don't ride, but based on how you feel.
Putting an ultimatum on anyone is a sure way to create resentment, spouses may not support the hobby, but at least be neutral about it.
I ride unicycles (including a 6 footer), road and mountain bikes, drive fast cars, run 4x4 expeditions deep into the mountains far away from town on tough technical trails with cliffs on the sides, travel extensively, and any one of these could lead to an accident if you're not properly prepared or don't plan out for contingencies. Some personalities don't deal well with incurring risk of any sort, but they shouldn't impose that on people who know how to manage risk or who want to enjoy a bit of adrenaline.
Just imagine Cristopher Columbus' wife...don't go Cristoforo...you might fall off the edge of the earth!!
-
Just imagine Cristopher Columbus' wife...don't go Cristoforo...you might fall off the edge of the earth!!
Or, Ragnar Lodbrok. LOL!
-
You guys are just so swaggering cool. Balls of steel and all that.
True. At least our balls of steel are not in a jar on the mantle.
-
The data doesn't lie?
Or the data is imperfect.
The data doesn't tend to separate things like what's the risk for a newbie vs. the risk for a 20 year veteran of the sport?
What's the data for someone riding in commuter traffic in a densely populated area vs. someone riding mid-day, mid-week, in a state forest?
What the data on someone who has a couple of drinks and rides well above the speed limit vs. someone completely sober riding more or less?
The data may not "lie" per se, but a hell of a lot of the people quoting it probably have no idea how applicable it is to a given situation.
Sure high level maybe skiing or snowboarding isn't in THEORY as dangerous as riding motorcycles or say racing cars (tell that to the family of Michael Schumacher, I bet the data will be very consoling).
My wife and I train in martial arts, we ski/snowboard, we scuba dive, we ride, they're all activities we chose to participate in WHILE taking the best steps we can to mitigate the risks. We won't pretend there are no risks, but we're also not going to try and hide in a cocoon. Instead we'll try and teach, by example, our kids to live their lives and considering the ROI for their actions.
Kev M, I couldn't agree more about risk-mitigation. And you're right that the data is/are blunt. So my intent was not to say "we're all gonna die!" but to say the best way to change the data for yourself is to ride within limits; read/talk/think/learn about safety; don't be a bonehead and drink and ride; chill with the hooning and jackassery: limit your exposure (to the extent you can) to other drivers and density. That's why I ride an ADV bike and seek out as much unpaved riding as possible. Besides being a ton of fun, mistakes on dirt tend to be more about you (or deer) and less about distracted latte drinkers, texters, or old people. And always wear proper gear. Then go riding.
-
Are you also going to quit driving cars? Crossing streets? Going out in public?
Mororcycling in and of itself is not dangerous. If you are worried to that extent quit riding dangerously.
-
...... God, family, country and motorcycles are our American dream.
Guns man........ dont forget the GUNS! :evil:
-
You guys are just so swaggering cool. Balls of steel and all that. Seen this same thread on various motorcycle forums over the years.
Meaningless drivel. We all have our own lives. We all make our own decisions.
LMAO!!! So true. My testicles are in a lock box. I talk big but know my vote can be recalled at any moment!!!! :wink:
-
LMAO!!! So true. My testicles are in a lock box. I talk big but know my vote can be recalled at any moment!!!! :wink:
John,
Yes, a lot of the posts just make me pee down my legs they are so manly. Speaking of which, this little song comes to mind!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CU1m57cRao
My youngest daughter has a saying. It is so true:
"The bigger the truck, the smaller the penis".
-
LMAO!!! So true. My testicles are in a lock box. I talk big but know my vote can be recalled at any moment!!!! :wink:
Yeah , let's take it easy fellas , motorcycles don't scare me , but the thought of getting married again sends a cold chill down my spine :shocked: We all have choices to make and a cross to bear :evil:
Besides , and I ain't mentioning names , some of us didn't learn the first , or second , or even third time , that we aren't good husband material :shocked: :thewife: Plus , having kids scares me way more than any other possible activity , what if they turned out like me ???
Dusty
-
Oh , and about that Cristobol guy that was hopelessly lost , well , hmm ...
Dusty
-
I have been riding off and on since 1962 . Never accepted riding as a religion or a lifestyle , but something that I enjoyed . Mostly transportation .
Early on , with small children around the house , it was handy to take the bike to work , and leave the car for the wife .
Later my work kept me away from home a lot , and my time at home was very valuable . Easy to take just one kid on the bike , but after a while the twins also wanted to go , and soon there were four , and where I went , they wanted to go ... so we would pile into the truck .
A couple of years in a row I cleaned and serviced my old BSA in Spring , and it would mostly sit all season . Finally sold it .
So ... I did stop riding my motorcycle because of the kids . Not to avoid some perceived risk , but because my time was better spent with them .
The last 24 years , with less demand on my time , I have been riding touring bikes with no pretense of practicality . I explore , or pop in on the grandkids .
-
Catching this topic a bit late - but similar to others, I rode while my three daughters were young. Had reasonable amount of life insurance.
As for the relationship side, neither my wife nor I would tolerate the other disallowing us to do something we loved. Freedom goes both ways. That said, she was worried about the girls riding two-up with me (even though she and I used to ride together a lot). I respected that and didn't take the kids out on the bikes - but now that they are entering adulthood, things are changing. In fact, my oldest has been talking about getting a motorcycle license.
-
On the Data - - - Nothing is absolute, it is about responsibility, and fate.
I wish I could find, it but as part of one of my Army schools, I had to build a risk assessment decision matrix that allowed you to put in all kinds of factors. The goal was the exercise of building the model, diddnt have to be military specific. I build one for assessing risk on MC riding. It had columns for: Age, Years riding, Motor Size/HP, Brakes, Motorcycle Style, Road conditions, City/rural/highway, Alcohol use, Saftey gear (gloves, helmet, jacket, pants, boots), # MSF courses (by number), hours on trip. I also did another DECMAT on what motorcycle to buy, and the conclusion document that I could find, but the DECMAT program doesnt run on W10.....
Factored it all in and I had a -5% chance of having an accident ;-) It was interesting to see how things changed the outcome. Remove the helmet, decrease the years riding, city riding, etc. It was pretty accurate.
I've had only one accident in all my years of riding, and most of it in the clogged NE corridor of NY, Philly, DC., and many IBA style trips. That accident was my fault, was on 3rd day of all day riding, riding outside my safety envelope (ability too maybe) and when an oncoming car crossed the lane in a blind reducing radius turn on the Cherahola Skyway I had to move to the shoulder and lowsided on the gravel at 70+mph. Had I not been riding a full padded leather riding suit with pads, helmet, boots and gloves I would have had more damage than severe bruising, cracked ribs, cracked vertibrae (bike tumbled and rolled on me at least twice) I would have been dead or had a broken back. I say it is my fault because I was riding at or above my limit, fatigued, and like a drug addict wanting more....... Had I been going 50 (still double the speed limit) rather than 75 + I am sure I could have negotiated the turn and not lowsided.
That was on a Yamaha FZ1. At the time I was 43, just back from Iraq, had NO sense of adreneline or safety boundaries.... So I take resposibility, even if the mooshine inspired 68 Biscayne crossed the line..... That accident permanently slowed me down. I bought an FJR which though highly capable, forced me to stick to that magic "double the yellow" number in the twisties and I have only gotten slower. 4 deployments later too many IED's have messed with my balance and focus, so slower again, and some days I just dont ride.
Dont anybody get torqued off (pun intended :tongue:) but that is one of the things I really like about my Guzzi's. The FJR could get away from me powerwise, but that is not the case for the Guzzi's. I can get as deep in the throttle as I want and not feel over my head. The payoff is character, feel, LOW drama torgue and just plain wonderfulness.
Life is full of danger. Responsible people take realistic precautions and ENJOY!
https://rideapart.com/articles/what-the-latest-nhtsa-fatality-statistics-reveal-about-motorcycle-safety
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/motorcycle-accident-statistics.htm
-
Sometimes it makes sense to just say "What" you do rather than saying "Why" you do it. Often you don't help yourself any by drawing a picture.
My wife has never told me "Not" to do something, just as I've never told her "Not" to do something. We're both adults - neither of us has veto power over the lives of the other. Of course, if I did something really stupid that affected her, I could expect consequences not in my best interests; that's just life, but she would never before-the-fact "disallow" anything I might want to do.
Also, I could have a billion dollars in life insurance, and that would never substitute for ME being the father that was part of raising our children. If money can substitute for me being a father to my children, then I was never really more than just a meat-stick and sperm donor, and I'm more than that.
All that being said, after riding continuously for 20 years, usually without a car, I stopped riding for 13 years partly to reduce the chance that my boys might have to grow up without me. I picked and chose my risk mitigation. Just like when I say that I don't like or use smart-phones or GPSes and get in return a bunch of stupid smack like "Well, I guess you'll like to live in a cave and chip flint and eat raw meat", I sometimes hear "If you quit riding I guess you'll have to move into a cocoon too and not go out of the house." No. I picked one area where the boys couldn't participate with me and that had a measurable risk associated with it, and just quit.
Once the boys were taller than me and riding their own bikes, I got back into it big time, and 14 bikes and a few hundred thousand miles later, it's like I never stopped.
But for me, it was the right thing to do.
Lannis
-
.....If my wife did ask me to stop I would because I love her more than I love riding the motorcycle, so for those guys who respected their wives feelings, I'm with you......
YES. I also understand many here who have had different kinds of relationships can't understand the feeling. Also, realize that if you are in a good relationship, the other person's feelings will take into account how you feel about something, ie, my wife would never ask me to not do something that I really wanted to do. I would be the same with whatever she wanted to do.
"Balls" don't apply to how you treat your loved ones.
-
YES. I also understand many here who have had different kinds of relationships can't understand the feeling. Also, realize that if you are in a good relationship, the other person's feelings will take into account how you feel about something, ie, my wife would never ask me to not do something that I really wanted to do. I would be the same with whatever she wanted to do.
"Balls" don't apply to how you treat your loved ones.
True. Although from the lofty pedestal of many years of observing the human condition, I find it .... interesting .... that so many guys are "surprised" by some request of their wife's well after they are married. Shouldn't they have known that BEFORE they yoked up for life? Perhaps just thinking with the wrong head, a common enough occurrence?
Motorcycling was easy for us - I picked up Fay for our first date on a motorcycle, and nothing's changed since! There have been some rocky spots, but four years of courtship assured that the bad disagreements weren't over anything "new" .....
Lannis
-
I've got 3 young boys (3, 7, 10). I actually didn't have a motorcycle until my wife decided that she wanted a third child. I said that was fine as long as I could have a motorcycle to "de-stress" from having 3 kids LOL. Of course, truth be told, I'd give up my bike in a nanosecond for my 3rd son but luckily, she understands that since I can no longer go to the flying field all day (was really into nitro RC helis), an hour long motorcycle ride at night and on the weekends is my stress reliever. I don't ride in heavy traffic and I don't commute so in that regards, I think I'm minimizing the risk. Plus, our roads are so darn straight and flat around here, there's hardly any blind corners or driveways to worry about anyway LOL.
-
Oh shit, I forgot to have children!
I didn't consider the girls I was dating in those years the "mother" type.
But none of them would EVER "tell" me not to do ANYTHING!
-
G John,
You missed a lot of life's most meaningful joys.
In the end, to ride or not is a personal decision. We should all respect each other's pathways.
-
G John,
You missed a lot of life's most meaningful joys.
In the end, to ride or not is a personal decision. We should all respect each other's pathways.
I have plenty of nieces and nephews to "enjoy" and then go home say thanks for not having to deal with all of that. Also a personal decision. I didn't marry until I was 42.
Suprised that you even responded. Must be a 1st
-
soap operas start at 1:00
couches have no motor
somehow they take a lot of live's
-
Some of my best memories are also when I was my dads passenger. When I had kids of my own, I bought them helmets of their own when they could sit still and maintain a grip for an extended period of time. Some might say that's irresponsible parenting. I call it bonding with my kids. Some of my kids best memories to this day are when we went riding. My oldest daughter, now 24 with kids of her own will tell you to this day that one of her favorite memories was when I took her to the 2003 Mo-Kan rally and turned her loose with a camera. She was 11 then. Here's a picture of us together at that rally:
(http://www.wildguzzi.com/Rallies/Photos/mokan2003/p1010001.jpg)
She has ridden with me since she was 6 and even at 24 she still rides with me on occasion. If my wife at the time tried to stop that, I would have found a new wife :evil:
More pics she took at that rally here: http://www.wildguzzi.com/Rallies/Photos/mokan2003/mokan2003.htm
-
couches have no motor
...but wait... we just got a couch with two (count 'em) 2 motors. Amazingly, we needed a power recliner on each end of the sectional sofa. Wish I could have got it with a manual mechanism, but no, our sofa is plugged in (in 2 places) and someday I'm gonna have to fix it.
On many occasions, when the TV comes on (especially if it's "The Bachelor"), the Guzzi goes for night-time blast through a canyon. Everybody's happy.
-
At 26, she still likes to ride with me.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cQf1iv/1511028_10103252875727863_2591640846077856377_n_jpg_oh_3ee27746df6f76db80a3ab97e503b3ba_oe_5890_AE39.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cQf1iv)
-
"The bigger the truck, the smaller the penis".
Not true. I drive a smallish 2WD Toyota Tacoma, and am still hung like a light switch.
-
Cam,
Thanks for a belly laugh! At least some people on this forum still have humor.
Someone tried to bait me above. Forget it buddy, wasting your time. I will respond as I see fit, or not.
This discussion confirms why I have no interest attending meet ups with a general crowd.
-
Similar to tonupracer, I'm 53 and have 2 kids under 4. Late bloomer with the procreation thing, so if I quit riding until they are 15, I'll have missed the majority of my remaining riding years.
I did give up commuting for the most part. Might ride in to work one day a week still when practicality demands it.
The thing that worries me the most is how having a motorcycle around will influence my son. I'm fine with him riding, I just want it to happen responsibly. My Dad didn't ride, and that had something to do with me coming to it relatively late, in my 20's, by which time I had acquired a modicum of common sense. I'm wary of the idea of my son riding at 16, or 18. But he's only 3 so I've got time to beat some sense into him yet.
-
We should all respect each other's pathways.
The puppies and rainbows forum is down the hall, on the left.
This is the curmudgeon's forum. Respect has to be earned, and even then it's only given reluctantly...
I guess you didn't figure that out on your first dance.
-
Nobody EVER "disallowed" me anything.
Agree 100%.
My wife has not always been supportive of my motorcycle riding, at times down right hostile towards it. But we have survived 33+ years of marriage now and she accepts that I have a passion for two wheels.
Deciding to ride or not is the riders decision, period.
I hear so many guys say "my wife will not let me own a bike", "my wife won't let me take weekend long bike trips" etc....
I wish guys would stop using someone else as the reason they don't ride.
-
While my wife wasn't disallowing me to ride, she wasn't favorable either. So when I got back into it I started with trials, hey, it's slow, on dirt and no cars. What could possible happen? Then to vintage MX, it was still in dirt but sadly I wasn't much faster than I was in trials... :sad: Then I started on a restoration project. Because it was in pieces I couldn't ride it on the street, right? But the time I got the bike done and could ride on the street we had been married long enough that she didn't care if I got ran over by a truck. :the wife:
Just kidding, she would care and if I survived an accident on the street she has said that in no uncertain terms she would finish me off in the hospital bed... after she check with the life insurance. :wink:
But she has also asked to go for a ride but not until she gets the proper gear!
-
Was not an issue for either my wife or I.
Having children did not stop us from doing the things that brought us together.
My oldest son was 3 or 4 weeks old when we took him camping for the first time.
I was riding a 71 Ambassador & a 69 BSA when he was born & continued to ride to work everyday until the roads iced up or the snow got deep.
I don't ever remember having a discussion over it, bikes have always been part of my life. Geez my wife rode until she was 7 months pregnant.
I am a firm believer that when your time is up it is up. When you're gone you are gone so what difference if I went out riding or got rear ended by a 59 Plymouth filled by nuns? That actually happened & I was driving a 69 Buick LeSabre, gas tank ended up in the rear seat.
-
I had a Nun turn left in front of me. Fortunately, it was only 5-10 mph. She was picking up a Rabbi. No joke. :tongue: They were going to an Ecumenical Council meeting in Honolulu. The Rabbi wanted to stick his nose into our business. I told him that it wasn't his kuleana. (responsibility) I had to deal with the Mother Superior of the convent after that for the insurance claim.
-
My future wife was riding a Z650 when we met, and when she was expecting our first, in '88, she gave up riding.
We have 2 children, adults now, and my wife decided to start riding again just over a year ago, so I bought her a Ducati.
Never did she even hint that I should ever stop riding because of the children...in my 20's, 30's and into my 40's, biking was indeed a way of life for me; now a full time hobby.
One post I have to make a reply to...
G John,
You missed a lot of life's most meaningful joys.
...have you any idea how condescending and patronizing that sounds?
-
Quote from: lucydad2 on October 31, 2016, 11:34:05 PM
G John,
You missed a lot of life's most meaningful joys.
...have you any idea how condescending and patronizing that sounds?
___________________ ___________________ ___________________ __
I understand the sentiment - but it could better be said like:
"If I had not had children, I would have missed out on what I consider a lot of life's most meaningful joys".
That way you are only saying what has been good for YOU and not saying what would be good for someone else ....
I certainly am glad I didn't miss out on my own children!
Lannis
-
We all have our own lens .
Dusty
-
Yeah its an interesting discussion - while I have never taken my daughter on the back of the bike I have never stopped riding either. Jill knew I was a biker when she met me and that was that. And a bit more in the story is that when I first met her she was keen to have a ride pillion - she had never done it. So we tried that and being the person she is (unlike me she has never flown sailplanes, surfed, been in caves not open to the public, sailed a Laser, or indeed ridden motorcycles on and off road) she absolutely hated it. In fact so much halfway into the ride I had to leave her at a cafe, ride home and get the car. :sad: So yeah....that was a bit sad but bikes are not our entire life. Its what one of us does. Together...we do other stuff.
Would I love to take Amelie on the bike? Hell yeah. I think she might love it.
-
I thought it was because motorcycles causes delinquency in young children.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic003/training-wheels-all-for-little-kids-2498-web_zpsvxp7rimd.jpg)
"Pops left his keys in the ignition again. Lets ride!"
-
Not true. I drive a smallish 2WD Toyota Tacoma, and am still hung like a light switch.
OMG, just about sprayed beer all over the screen! Thanks for the laugh!
-
OMG, just about sprayed beer all over the screen! Thanks for the laugh!
Yep, that's some good stuff!
'99 Tacoma here............... .....thumb tack
-
I started riding minibikes/dirt bikes when I was 13 and bought my first real motorcycle when I was 22. I gave that motorcycle to my brother-in-law shortly after I got married back in the early 80's. It had problems and I wasn't a mechanic and we had no money, and I didn't really miss it after a while. Then I had my daughter, got divorced and stayed single. I never even considered getting another bike while she was growing up, not because of the risk, but because I needed a car or minivan to haul lots of kids all the time! One day in 2005, my friend asked me if I wanted to buy her motorcycle and I did and I haven't stopped riding since. Can't wait til my grandkids are big enough to ride with me!
Oh, by the way, I have a 4 x 4 Toyota Tacoma Quad Cab, long bed.
Beaver
-
Yep, that's some good stuff!
'99 Tacoma here............... .....thumb tack
What about guys that drive a pink '59 Rambler American station wagon :huh:
Dusty
-
I started riding minibikes/dirt bikes when I was 13 and bought my first real motorcycle when I was 22. I gave that motorcycle to my brother-in-law shortly after I got married back in the early 80's. It had problems and I wasn't a mechanic and we had no money, and I didn't really miss it after a while. Then I had my daughter, got divorced and stayed single. I never even considered getting another bike while she was growing up, not because of the risk, but because I needed a car or minivan to haul lots of kids all the time! One day in 2005, my friend asked me if I wanted to buy her motorcycle and I did and I haven't stopped riding since. Can't wait til my grandkids are big enough to ride with me!
Oh, by the way, I have a 4 x 4 Toyota Tacoma Quad Cab, long bed.
oOooo. Quad cab................ you get better lookin' all the time Beeve! : :shocked:
Beaver
-
What about guys that drive a pink '59 Rambler American station wagon :huh:
Dusty
You mean like, salmon pink?
-
You mean like, salmon pink?
No , like "pink" pink , as in baby girl pink :laugh:
Dusty
-
On the Data - - - Nothing is absolute, it is about responsibility, and fate.
Life is full of danger. Responsible people take realistic precautions and ENJOY!
https://rideapart.com/articles/what-the-latest-nhtsa-fatality-statistics-reveal-about-motorcycle-safety
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/motorcycle-accident-statistics.htm
Having spent some time digging into the links from Bulldog9's post, and trying to parse what the NHTSA data actually say, here's my super-reductive take on making it home to kiss the spouse/partner/significant other/kids, or to just crack a beer and toast your ongoing (post-ride) presence on this earth. To be clear, I'm not proselytizing ANYTHING. Just trying to boil the data-sap down to reveal the stickiest data truths:
1) Wear a helmet (many more killed without one)
2) Don't drink & ride (shocking number of deaths associated with booze)
3) Slow it down (speed correlates with dying)
4) To the extent possible, avoid cars, or ride like they intend to kill you (because most motorcycle accidents involve another vehicle, rather than an unforced hooning error)
5) Two-lane, undivided rural roadways are big on joy, but are surprisingly higher risk (guessing this is related to #4—you drifting and hitting a car, or drifting/turning car hitting you)
6) Oncoming left-hand turners are a lethal enemy (related to #4, too). This is why I find the classic American commercial strip—four lanes, stoplights, stores and restaurants on both sides, and the chaos of drivers on whatever urgent spending mission they're on stopping, starting, or turning—to be THE WORST. A Saturday mid-day ride on something like Route 1 (the Boston Post Road) anywhere in the Northeast is like a suicide mission.
BTW my wife hates my riding habit as much as I love it. And we still get along famously.
-
5) Two-lane, undivided rural roadways are big on joy, but are surprisingly higher risk (guessing this is related to #4�you drifting and hitting a car, or drifting/turning car hitting you)
Majority of my riding is rural.
Biggest hazards are:
Older folks who ride on the center line & cross over on the curves.
Slow moving farm equipment on blind curves.
Animals: Bear, Buzzard, Deer, Dog, Hog & Gator in my area.
Rare but happens are the crazy pick up truck & 4 wheelers on a dirt road that crosses the blacktop without stopping or slowing.
Sand washed across the road after heavy rains.
-
"5) Two-lane, undivided rural roadways are big on joy, but are surprisingly higher risk..."
#5 is my favorite kind of road. I've ridden the lower 48 states, a lot of it by myself, parts of Canada, and crossed into Mexico on a hand drawn ferry across the Rio Grande in Los Ebanos, TX. I've only had one minor crash and that was because I went into a long curvy tunnel with the road under construction (dirt/gravel/rutted), discovered my headlight was out (socket burned up) panicked because it was pitch black and I couldn't see a thing and fell over while I was slowing down. I hate riding interstates or big highways because I think you miss so much. I've been on some pretty scary roads with Tex - one mistake and you're a goner. I've ridden a Jackal, 1100Breva, and now a 750 Stone, travel at my own pace and know my limits! As many of you know, I'm short and can barely touch tiptoe! I have a flip phone that is used for calling only, but often there is no service way out in the boonies. I use a redneck GPS (tape directions on my windwhield), carry maps, and talk to locals. Everyone has favorite roads and I like to try out some of those. When I'm out on a trip by myself, I call Tex and my daughter to report in at least once a day if I have service on my phone. Of course it's risky, but I've enjoyed every minute of it and will continue as long as I can! :) Nobody has forbade me to go. It wouldn't do any good if they did!
Beaver
-
5) Two-lane, undivided rural roadways are big on joy, but are surprisingly higher risk (guessing this is related to #4�you drifting and hitting a car, or drifting/turning car hitting you)
I would like to know how they determined that. At higher risk of what?
Here in The Ozarks, most of the riders can be found on rural 2-lane roadways. Most of the accidents are single-vehicle, "Rider Failed to Negotiate a Curve", and many times with the words "riding impaired". Those accidents don't make our 2-lane roadways "less safe" for other riders.
-
Reducing the data to the single elements, as adv-lounger has done very well, helps with clarifying, but it sometimes does so at the expense of over-simplifying and causing us to focus on one factor. Typically, there are several factors involved in an accident. So the two-lane roads could be more dangerous if people have a drink before they go, then remove their helmets, go faster, and hit an alligator.
You want to make it back home to see the kids? Manage multiple risks simultaneously, don't do stupid stuff (like drink alcohol) that introduces unnecessary risk. While you're at it, set a good example by wearing adequate gear all the time.
On a related note: My daughter, who is in college in Arizona now, recently sent a group text to my whole family with a picture of a helmetless male rider and helmetless and sandal-wearing female passenger on a KTM 450. She said: "Dad would kill us if we did this. Unless the driver killed us first..."
-
Guns man........ dont forget the GUNS! :evil:
Got that covered too!
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/GuzziRider/20130209_100036_zpsebf55cf6.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/GuzziRider/media/20130209_100036_zpsebf55cf6.jpg.html)
-
Please don't shoot the buffalo and let them roam the plains freely like they used to, or better yet, try to wrestle one to the ground and see who wins then! Stomp stomp stomp!
Funny about the alligators...used to see those when living in Florida, but mostly on the golf course...that's a hell of a road hazard to watch out for when riding the moto!
-
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cxpmiv/file_1_312.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cxpmiv)
image
hosting (http://imgbb.com/)
I can't find pictures of my first 2 sidecar rigs but, when my daughter was 2 I put together a Harley rig, a few years later i went to a Guzzi with a Velorex. That got updated to this EML. JP is about 7 in this shot heading home from the Illinois rally. If you have young kids, get a sidecar rig, you'll have a great time.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/e3MMGF/13473283_1558026484492518_1410552173_n.jpg) (http://ibb.co/e3MMGF)
This was taken last summer
-
You upped his cool factor while in Jr. High. :thumb:
-
Started riding when my first child was born :laugh:
-
Started riding when my first child was born :laugh:
Wow! You're probably a long way from home by now .... :cheesy:
-
Had to get out of the house. :grin: I didn't do the 3 National Rallies while being a house-dad. Had to get the youngest out of diapers. My turn to stay home and raise the youngest. I still rode on weekends. Here is GianThomas after I picked him up from elementary school. He'll graduate from high school in May.
(http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo165/1000s1991/motoguzzi033.jpg) (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/1000s1991/media/motoguzzi033.jpg.html)
-
If you were born to ride let the wife & kids know it. Let them see who you are but never forget to walk (ride?) that fine line of letting them know they're most important. As Tash Matsouka (sp? Rider mag years ago said ) when a young reader expecting his 1st child & getting pressured by the wife to stop riding wrote the mag Tash replied. It's an important decision but he's glad police officers, firemen, & career military don't stop doing what they do when they have children. I didn't.
Nine of us sat around the fire at TWO in Ga & 2 of us were married......11 of us were having lunch at a BMW air tech day at Lake Tahoe. I was the only one married. It's not easy but having an exceptional wife helps! 👍😀
-
True. :1:
-
I've got too much work to do to worry about what size truck and penis you have.
A safety nazi was telling me how dangerous it is to run all the back roads. How each driveway and entrance to a field is a potential accident. Plus drivers crossing the center line and dogs dear etc. OK, you want to be paranoid then riding on the freeway is equally as dangerous as each oncoming car could come thru the median, a truck could chunk a tire or an airplane could land on the freeway.
Now, for breakfast should I have steel cut oats with organic blueberries or three eggs with bacon, homade biscuits made with lard topped with sawmill gravy?
Carefree,
Tex
-
Now, for breakfast should I have steel cut oats with organic blueberries or three eggs with bacon, homade biscuits made with lard topped with sawmill gravy?
Carefree,
Tex
Both. You got a big day ahead of you
-
Wow! You're probably a long way from home by now .... :cheesy:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Not really.
The only problem I have now is not being able to take off into the country for a day or two.
Gotta wait till kids get older. Might have more time then.
Still doing about 5000 annually mostly daily commute within a single borough.