Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kev m on March 08, 2017, 09:16:18 AM
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OK, I've been looking for an angle on a future Revzilla article based on what seems to me to be a growing popularity of smaller displacement bikes such as the Guzzi smallblock, the Duc Scrambler, Triumph Bonnies, heck even the Harley Sportsters and much of JAPanInc's sub liter line.
So is that a correct impression (that they are becoming more popular in the face of bigger, faster, more capable machines)?
And if you are one who has either forsaken larger bikes or who finds a preference for these smaller machines, why?
I'd really like some testimonials from people (preferably all over the world) who are willing to answer some questions.
Let me know here, and if you might want to participate (answer a half dozen or so questions in an email and maybe provide a pic or two of yourself and your bike) let me know in a PM.
So how about it, WHY?
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I went smaller to loose about 160 pounds.
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As I have gotten older and less able, bikes that are just over the top stupidly capable hold less attraction to me. I prefer KISS bikes that I can just enjoy the scenery on and not have to worry about changing software to work out a flat spot in the FI mapping.
My go to bike the past couple years has been a old Royal Enfield Bullet 500. I can't believe how much I can have with just 20 hp! Super light handling but not quite twitchy. Its like I stuffed a lawn mower engine into a ten speed bikes frame.
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Agree with Sidecar. At age 68 I don't have anything to prove -- certainly no longer interested in The Ton. I'm very happy two-up on the Mille (about 540 lb, I think) but for around town, the F650 (about 420 lb) and TR6R (about 410 lb) are easier to park and center-stand. Next acquisition will be a 250 dual-sport, at maybe 325 lb. I can scare myself witless on any of these machines AND do all the maintenance myself without have to swap out expensive electronics.
Looking back at it, I had more fun than I could stand on the Sprint (325 lb) and CB500 Four (about 450 lb I think). With fuel, the Laverda and Suzuki were 500-lb bikes. The Yamaha: 200 lb.
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So is that a correct impression (that they are becoming more popular in the face of bigger, faster, more capable machines)?
Less capable? I guess you're goading us. :grin: My eyes were opened when a friend suggested I try his 100cc 2-stroke yamaha on the Dragon a few years ago. That was an extreme example of a small motorcycle being more fun in certain situations than a big one. And I mean a lot more fun. I was actually laughing out loud in my helmet as I dared to take curves at speeds I wouldn't try on a big bike. I'm not sure precisely why smaller motorcycles are becoming popular now, but maybe one reason is that they're being made in large quantities for markets in developing countries, so they're now widely available at low prices. I'm really glad they are though, and am thinking of buying bikes like the KTM390, the Yamaha FZ-07, and others in the sub-400 lb. category. I'm also enjoying my 320 lb naked Ninja 250 I set up for my daughter to ride, and that I ride more than she does.
If I wanted to ride to California and back, I'd take my Mille, but when I want to ride 100 miles on twisty, hilly roads, I'd much rather ride a smaller motorcycle, because it's more fun.
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Not interview worthy information, but I love jumping on my old Vespas and prefer them over the Guzzi in many situations, like running to the grocery store around the corner. Feels less stressful to ride at times, and then I get renewed reward when I ride the guzzi again after the Vespa, so it's a constant win-win.
May not be the same for smaller motorcycles you're inquiring about, but what's nice about the Vespa, or at least the models I own is that you can sit a bag of charcoal, or a 12-pack soda pack on the floorboards and go.. Sometimes both those things at once, and sometimes even more!
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Well, let's face it, Kev.. the motorcycle riding public is ageing. Even the go fast guys I see out in SoCal are normally "older" guys. As we age, along with wisdom comes a lessening of physical ability. The Mighty Scura is about the limit of the bike I can (barely) comfortably handle, move around in the Guzzi Garage (tm) etc. at my tender age. That won't last forever... :sad:
The Aero Lario is more than capable with roughly 150 lbs. less mass.
Thinking ahead a bit, I finally found a Monza that is still a perfectly capable sport tourer and even lighter. Putting it on the center stand feels like a bicycle in comparison. Handling is more than very good for an antique machine. It has the sweet running 500cc engine with a 9K redline. What's not to like? :smiley:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8472/28450420434_d4b11af14f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Km4QNf)2016-08-18_02-45-05 (https://flic.kr/p/Km4QNf) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
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I have my Uly and LeMans and Eldorado all which I love riding for differnt reasons but I get just as much satisfaction riding my 88 XT350 and 73 F7 175, you can run them to red line and your not doing 100, light and easy to ride and on a lot of the back roads around here (Conn) you you don't need anything more,small bikes just fun to ride. I test rode Yamahas FZ7 when it came out and that click a lot of the right buttons.
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My (82 yr. old) buddy Leo recently traded his (California) Yamaha Super Tenere in on a Triumph 800 XRT which has nearly the same hp, but weighs ~ 100 lbs. less. I wonder if he'll do the same with his (Maryland) Super Tenere. :wink:
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It was approximately 2006 /2008 or so, I was riding a Honda Sabre.
(http://gdurl.com/bq_h)
Few years into ownership it was totaled. While taking a trip to deals gap, 14 miles from our stay, a rider coming down the hill using front brakes only slid into my path. I had a few years off bike to think of my next purchase. I looked at many and wanted to try something different. I wanted to try a more natural seating position. I didn't have a lot of disposable income, so I looked at the TU250. From Adventure rider, it was a fun bike to own. Against all my bike friends advise, I still made the purchase in 2011. We all found that it was the most fun to ride bike of them all. Define fun? Put it in a corner, give it gas and come out smiling while hitting the next curve. Now onto new life and new wife, 11,000 miles later I was finding I could use a little more power on these big open Texas roads. What is on the market that is as much fun as the TU but with just a tad more power? I looked for years. When the V7 II came out, I did some more note taking. It appeared that it was not a power house but it did not come with a lot of extra weight. As you see from the picture, it's very close on comparison to the TU in size and seating position.
(http://gdurl.com/r80a)
I just love the ease of cornering and the fun you can have on a low weight bike.
Don't get me wrong, I also enjoy our Wing. At 940 pounds, it's a different class of riding although you can still get jiggy with it. The Wing makes for the perfect 2 up riding and we do a lot of that as well.
(http://gdurl.com/ixqj)
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I have a couple other bikes with considerably more power than my humble V7 Stone, but when I walk into my garage, the Guzzi is the machine that leaves with me 95% of the time. Why? Because it does everything I ask of it (tour, weekend canyon carving, coffee shop posing, trackdays this year!)... and does it in style, at less cost, whilst still delivering wicked smile-inducing fun.
* But I also wouldn't mind a new, 150hp 2017 Ducati Monster 1200S. Hahaha...
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59 years old here. By far most of my riding is along two routes - my 7 mile commute to work (I moved my office from 2.5 miles from my house to 7 miles so my bikes could truly warm up) which I liken to having a fun ski run before and after work, and some various 60-100 mile loops up Angeles Crest Highway, one of the absolute best motorcycle roads in the entire world, that I live 1/2 mile from the universal meetup Shell Station.
My current big bike is a 2007 BMW GS Adventure, which is ok at both tasks, but really, is a bit of a pig, especially moving around in the garage.
When my son was twenty and in a rough patch, I sold my Hypermotard 1100 and bought a Husky TR650 for him as his first street bike. The Husky was an eye opener. 55HP, about 425lbs, dead on smooth single. It was just a riot on the Crest. Went from me riding ahead of son watching him in my mirrors to a year later me riding behind him with him waiting for me from time to time as I cant keep up. I cursed BMW for selling Husky and making that bike an orphan.
I liked that bike so much, I bought a KTM 690 Enduro. Again, single cylinder 650 which makes 65HP. The 690 is great, but is more vibey than I would like.
What I like about these smaller bikes is when you are doing 85, you know it. Big bikes you twist the throttle and before you know it, you are easily over 100, which in CA can be a stupid serious ticket adventure (DAMHIK). Small bikes you can row them through the gears pinning the throttle. Easy to roll around the garage, easy off the side stand, easy through traffic, easy to split lanes. Easier on tires. Easy on fuel. Easy on insurance. It's really hard to find a down side. And, riding on the Crest, it is a joy to be on a bike that forces you to corner better as you don't have the HP to wick it up to insane speeds on the straights.
I'm in limbo right now, waiting for the new V7iii's to show up. Seems to me it could be an ideal bike for me to keep into my 70's.
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What I like about these smaller bikes is when you are doing 85, you know it. Big bikes you twist the throttle and before you know it, you are easily over 100, which in CA can be a stupid serious ticket adventure (DAMHIK). Small bikes you can row them through the gears pinning the throttle.
That's the classic argument that I've come to agree with, "It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than it is to ride a fast bike slow." I guess where you draw the line between slow and fast bikes is up to the rider, however. :)
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Bottom line: It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.
And if you don't believe it, you haven't tried it.
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Sure would love to participate.
Bikes have gotten more powerful, larger in displacement and heavier since I started riding in the late 60’s. Some of it has been a welcome change like reliability and stability on the interstate but the assumption was we (motorcycle buying public, emphases on buying) wanted more power. We did think CB750 and the KZ900 and as time progressed bikes got bigger and more powerful. Large numbers of CB, KZ, GS and FZ bikes where sold in the 1000CC+ range. Then there is the cruiser world where heaver seems to be better, I’m lost here. I went along with the trend until about 5 years ago when I realized that I was having no fun on my K1200 in the twisties and would look down at the speedo and see I was doing 100+ mph. The next revelation was the 1050 Sprint , accelerated on to the interstate going to work straight across 3 lanes and away from all the cars looked down an realized I was doing 140MPH! Both bikes were sold. I have found that my V7 and Bonneville have ample power for whatever it is I want to do.
Bob
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Kev,
I have most recently been riding a V11 Lemans, and an 1100 Griso. I have just purchased a V7II Stone. Factors in my decision to go small block include:
1. Age/ comfort/ bike weight. These are all related. As we age, cramped riding positions are less tolerable and detract from enjoyment. Heavier bikes become harder to manage.
2. Fuel economy/ range. I ride a lot, and spend too much time getting gas. I like having a 200 mile range.
3. Power is less important than it used to be.
4. I want to ride dirt roads, but have never been comfortable on loose gravel. The V7 isn't designed for "off road", but it is a good size - big enough to get there on the highway, small and light enough to be easily managed once there. The tallness of Adventure bikes like a Wee Strom are actually more difficult for me to manage on dirt.
5. Simplicity. Guzzis have an old school simplistic engine. Combined with shaft drive, it makes for a very practical and pleasing platform. BMW airhead simple, yet modern in ways that make sense like ABS.
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Kev,
I have most recently been riding a V11 Lemans, and an 1109 Griso. I have just purchased a V7II Stone. Factors in my decision to go small block include:
1. Age/ comfort/ bike weight. These are all related. As we age, cramped riding positions are less tolerable and detract from enjoyment. Heavier bikes become harder to manage.
2. Fuel economy/ range. I ride a lot, and spend too much time getting gas. I like having a 200 mile range.
3. Power is less important than it used to be.
4. I want to ride dirt roads, but have never been comfortable on loose gravel. TheV7 isn't designed for "off road", but it is a good size - big enough to get there on the highway, small and light enough to be easily managed once there. The tallness of Adventure bikes like a Wee Strom are actually more difficult for me to manage on dirt.
5. Simplicity. Guzzis have an old school simplistic engine. Combined with shaft drive, it makes for a very practical and pleasing platform. BMW airhead simple, yet modern in ways that make sense like ABS.
The combination of a big 5.3 (or is it 5.8) gallon tank on a small block bike is a huge draw to me, a GS Adventure rider (I can often put 9 gallons in my 8.7 gallon tank). As I commute by bike, the bigger tank is really nice for some range. My old Hyoermotard needed gas at between 75 and 85 miles. Terrible. My KTM 690 also has a small tank. Guzzi seems the only manufacturer smart enough to up the tank size on a small bike.
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Kev,
Some of us are old school Environmentalists where less is more.
My hunting dogs are spaniels because they eat less than half of what a Lab eats, my hunting shotgun is a 20 ga because I don't want to tear up the bird along with being easier to carry.
I dispute those who claim motorcyclists are getting markedly older. My wife is a tennis bum and you'd be surprised at how many people compete in tennis at over 60 years old. Older people doing things they like is just a reality of present day USA. Not everyone want to sit in a rocking chair and watch Soaps.
Finally only in the US do we need big V8's in cars most of the rest of the world get's by with 4 cylinders or even 3 cylinders. Sure the big V8 is great for long runs on the Highway but the last long run I made to get my Lemans was with an I6 Jeep (4,000+ miles round trip). still you'll have to pry my '05 Caddy CTS-V out of my cold dead hands
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Gratuitous shot of my beauty...
(http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/c181.0.718.718/14592143_361829837499034_6405696963227942912_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTM3ODg0NTkxMTA3MzAwMDM0Mw%3D%3D.2.c)
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i have a couple of faster bikes, but for regular riding they are not worth the hassle.
a smaller bike is just more fun 99% of the time
The most fun i had with the morini 350 on small roads , that was like throwing a 35 hp mountain bike around.
but on highways it was too buzzy.
my current lario ( and the pretty similar V7) is somewhere in the middle, it does everything, it is light enough to throw it around and fast enough for highways.
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I did over 200,000 miles on a 12hp 350. :rolleyes: Who needs kazillion hp to get from A to B. I would not expect any bike to match the 600 odd mile range of that one.
The B750 is just a nice size bike, powerful enough for me with very pleasant delivery of power, a nice balanced weight and is extremely comfortable. It does 240 miles on a tank which is getting towards respectable. Whats not to like?
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Kev:
Happy to assist. Please PM if you have any follow-up questions.
For me it's all about LIGHT WEIGHT along with a physically small bike. Lower mass/size is critically important to me---these are key variables that drive whether I'll enjoy riding and using a bike.
I've had bigger, more powerful bikes. Yamaha FJR, BMW 1200GS, Suzuki GS1100E. I eventually discovered that I prefer lighter bikes for all around use, up to and including long distance touring (1 up). 400 pounds or less is ideal. No more than 450.
Small block Guzzi is like an old BMW airhead in that it's one of the few bikes that has such a relatively low weight/size, combined with real world features such as shaft drive, large gas tank, ease of maintenance, etc.
I also thoroughly enjoy a 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250 for all purpose riding, including longer trips. That thing is amazingly capable and just an all around hoot to ride.
Light is where it's at for me.
But I also really like Guzzis in general. May one day try a big block, just out of curiosity.
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I got nothing. These guys said it all perfect.
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When I started riding a 600-750 was a BIG bike with a ton of power. And my 500 was a 'sport' bike. 350's were common as commuters and 250's were the common off road bike. A few years later and the liter bikes show up. 500's are only good for dirt and everyone is looking for more than 100hp.
There never was a reason to go to bikes with over 100hp. But, people will be people and some want to be the fastest thing out there, or be able to scare themselves every now and then, or show off to the 'lesser' people with not as much power.
I read a post in another forum about a guy who was pondering another car purchase. Should he put out the money for the newest high performance vette or should he add mods to his 500hp mustang so it would be as fast as the vette. Someone asked him why he needed all that hp and he just could not answer the question. Even admitted the last time he used full throttle he almost went off the road, but, he still wanted more.
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At least in the example of Guzzi, I don't think it's true that they are becoming more popular in the face of larger, more capable machines. The small block used to be a 350, didn't it? Now it's a -- what -- 900? Instead of becoming more popular in the face of the bigger machines, they are themselves becoming the bigger machines. It's the V700 history repeating itself.
I could pick apart the street offerings of the major factories, but you can probably connect the dots faster than I can type. The upshot is that historically, factories don't ask how they can put LESS horsepower and torque into an existing machine, and Guzzi is a perfect example.
$0.02
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I don't currently have one in the stable, bit I will again. One of the most enjoyable bikes I've ever owned was a DRZ400 Super Motard. Light, quick, flickable, nimble - just an absolutely fun bike. It'll be a dead heat to see whether I get one again before I get a Stelvio, but something down in that sub-500cc class is going to be taking up space in the garage.
My first two bikes were a Suzi X6 Hustler (250) and a Yamaha RD400D - and the love of small bikes has never left me.
The only thing that puts me off bikes with smaller engines is that they tend to be bikes with smaller frames - I liked my Breva 750 enough to keep it for six years, but I was never quite comfortable with how cramped my legs got.
I'm not sure whether I'd seek out a 650-900 again, though; they aren't 'different' enough from the big bikes.
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The majority of us here get older every year and high speed, more MC weight than our bodies are now comfortable with are over in this state of my life. It's that simple. Fastest bike I've ever owned was a `87 LeMans IV that would do 139 mph. Got rid of it because on occasion I found it necessary to go there. Nowadays I rarely find it necessary to get to 100 mph and only for a short time, like to pass another vehicle on a 2 lane road. At 73 yo my body strength ain't what it used to be and anything over 400# feels too heavy for me now, except for my MP3 scooters which with 3 wheels make their extra weight insignificant My current `77 Convert. is the heaviest bike I've ever owned @ 600#. I still love to haul thru corners and can still do that at lower speeds with some of my bikes.
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And that raises another point. Riders are bigger today. In 2004 the CDC reported this:
The average weight for men rose "dramatically," in the CDC's words, from 166.3 pounds in 1960 to 191 pounds in 2002.
Of course, those of us who were 5'8" and 160 lb in 1970 are probably not 6'0" and 200 lb in 2017. We liked light bikes then and still do.
The market, however, looms over us.
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Lighter bike is easier to pick up if I drop it. :> For me it was all about the size of the bike along with the weight. My 1100 was very unhappy riding around under 40 most of the time. My v7 is quite comfortable. Handling is easier......get to ride it faster without getting into real trouble. Just more fun all around.
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What they said, Kev.
The whole idea of riding is to have fun. For me the V7 is the package - goes everywhere, does everything, and in style. The shorter wheelbase and the lighter weight make it more chuckable in the twisties. It tours comfortably and is easy enough to work on. Every now & again I toy with the idea of another big block, but it never seems to get further than that. The 1100 Sport has a more comfortable riding position, but it's not as much fun in the tight twisties and the occasions when I actually used the available power were few. So when it came to the crunch - a big block or another V7, it was for a no-brainer.
On the other hand, the 500 Bullet is like riding a toy after the V7 - even more chuckable & shines on country roads. There's nothing like riding a thumping single through the forest - dirt or bitumen. The downside (?) of the Enfield is my reluctance to use it much on motorways - so just a little less flexible. But it is fun.
Mal
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Great input so far guys - thanks so much. You guys are giving me some things to think about.
So at least some of you would agree that it seems that smaller displacement bikes are enjoying some popularity, if only judging from an expansion of offerings, yes?
I actually think an aging riding population is an interesting thought and I find it hard to counter the logic. Even if the riding population is largely staying in shape age will still have physical effects some of which can't be ignored based on will alone.
The CDC size figures are interesting - though that "growth" has been since the 60's and the cubic inch displacement explosion seems more like only since the 90s or so in my mind.
Of course the point that in general displacements will grow and not shrink is true. Though I get your point RK that the smallblock has indeed grown in engine size, it's still considered "small" by today's mega-CC standards and heck, it's still the smallest product Guzzi sells so I'd argue it still fits the bill. Not to mention I think we've seen for sure that the smallblock is enjoying something of a renaissance in sales success for Guzzi.
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What they said, Kev.
The whole idea of riding is to have fun. For me the V7 is the package - goes everywhere, does everything, and in style. The shorter wheelbase and the lighter weight make it more chuckable in the twisties. It tours comfortably and is easy enough to work on. Every now & again I toy with the idea of another big block, but it never seems to get further than that. The 1100 Sport has a more comfortable riding position, but it's not as much fun in the tight twisties and the occasions when I actually used the available power were few. So when it came to the crunch - a big block or another V7, it was for a no-brainer.
On the other hand, the 500 Bullet is like riding a toy after the V7 - even more chuckable & shines on country roads. There's nothing like riding a thumping single through the forest - dirt or bitumen. The downside (?) of the Enfield is my reluctance to use it much on motorways - so just a little less flexible. But it is fun.
Mal
That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. But instead of the Enfield, I'm giving some serious thought to a Honda Grom.
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point of view on the Grom.. I'm not connected to these guys..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsuGnVnoL-0
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It's about accessibility for leasure time too. I'm more likely to jump on a small bike after work to ride the back roads for 30 minutes and return with a smile. Small bikes are fun and no worries about pushing or pulling it around. There has been an escalation in weight and power to market bikes and I think the manufacturers have realized we want small and retro. :bike-037:
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When I bought my 2016 V7 it was my first bike in around 20 years, my last being an HD Low Rider Custom. I had certain things I was looking for in a bike. I wanted something in the under 1000cc range with ABS and of course in a certain price range. I was pretty much open to just about anything.
After looking at just about all the major brands I decided I did not want a cruiser style bike either and was about to seriously consider a Triumph Street Twin. On the way home I decided to stop at the Moto Guzzi dealer and started considering the V7. After a test ride I was sold. Nice size, plenty of power for me and a decent weight. Plus it looks good, sounds good and there are enough options out there to improve the handling if necassary.
At 64 I did not want to deal with a 700 pound bike again.
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A 750 used to be a big bike. Now it is considered as being small and low powered. By comparison with the current big bikes it is but is a v7 any smaller, lighter or lower powered than say a 750 Triumph of the 1990s? Which was a big bike then.
What has changed with time is our expectations. Bike magazines have hyped us into wanting bigger and bigger and more powerful bikes every year. Somewhere along the way it went too far, and unless you want to pose, a smaller bike really can do everything....inclu ding being fast enough to scare you!
So I think there has been a reaction against 150hp / tyres lasting weeks / fuel consumption worse that a car / excess weight etc etc......and people have rediscovered that smaller bikes are more fun.
Against this a friend has just bought a BMW 1200R because in a few years it will be too late...
AndyB
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the cubic inch displacement explosion seems more like only since the 90s or so in my mind.
People tend to think that all significant change has happened since they started paying attention at age 20 . . .
But displacement inflation has been with us nearly forever.
Triumph introduced the 500cc Speed Twin in 1937. By 1973 it had grown to the T140 750.
Honda introduced the CB500/4 in 1971. Eight years later it was a 650.
The first liter-bike I remember was the Goldwing, at 999cc in 1974. Five years later it went to 1100, and then ever upward to 1800 today.
So -- the ceiling has been rising for a long time.
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Bottom line: It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow.
And if you don't believe it, you haven't tried it.
This is what seals it for me.... I dearly love my B1100 but I live in the land of tight, twisty mountain roads.... The Breva is great for two-up and long fast rides... But the v65 can't be beat for screaming thru the hills and hollars
The V65 with Agostini carbon cans (no db killers) off a V7 also sounds a hell of a lot better than my B1100 with Staintune
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I have ridden my eldest son-in-laws Road King.
It was fine for him to ride from Georgia to Arizona, but I would not want it in the canyons.
Side note: I recall buying a 1967 CB160, when I was stationed at McGuire AFB and the salesman was touting the CB450 as the "Cadillac of motorcycles".
The comments in this thread about displacement inflation are really on the mark.
From 1963 to 2005, the displacement of each bike increased. For simplicity, let's leave dirt bikes out.
However, the 2002 H-D Sportster 1200 Sport was replaced in 2102 by a 865 cc Bonneville. Now the Bonneville has been replaced by a 744 cc V7 II.
The V7 will not do as well as the Bonneville above 75 or so and especially above 85. However, it has a major plus in the item one category.
1. Love the light weight, even with a 5.5 gallon tank...despite a significant driveway incline, I can still push it backwards into the garage.
2. Love the seat height...not too low...not to high
3. Love the ground clearance and lean angle capabilities, which many large displacement newer cruisers lack.
And lastly, in another thread, I mentioned a turn in the north San Fernando Valley, from San Fernando Road to Balboa Boulevard. I helped more than one big twin rider pick up his bike there. Getting full dressers upright is not fun and I was 40+ years younger then.
I took the Bonneville to our AZ ranch. 212 miles of highway, then 8 miles of rocky road, then 3/4 miles of Jeep trail. I got it there, but glad it was not heavier.
Getting it back down was even less fun. The V7 is going to miss out on that.
I had the Bonneville up to 112 on the Extraterrestrial Highway, 4 years back. It was still climbing, when an unexpected wind gust from the north moved me from the middle of one lane to middle of the opposite lane. Zero traffic, but glad the wind did not come from the south, as then I would have been into rocks. I really should not be doing 100+, even if it were permitted.
If I can cruise at 80 in a 75 MPH zone and still have something left to briefly go to 90 to pass, that is more than enough. Coming back from Overton, last Friday, I took I15, with traffic running 80-85 and the V7 was only doing ~5K RPM.
Even with under 50 HP, the V7 pulls from stop signs and signals extremely well.
Would I enjoy a BMW R1200R, yes, but, other than acceleration, would I enjoy it as much...probably not, but it is not in my budget, either. Next month, it will be Social Security only income and I am appreciating filling my V7 tank compared to the tank of my wife's truck!
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It's about accessibility for leasure time too. I'm more likely to jump on a small bike after work to ride the back roads for 30 minutes and return with a smile. Small bikes are fun and no worries about pushing or pulling it around. There has been an escalation in weight and power to market bikes and I think the manufacturers have realized we want small and retro. :bike-037:
You must have a lot of willpower to ride for only 30 minutes!
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So at least some of you would agree that it seems that smaller displacement bikes are enjoying some popularity, if only judging from an expansion of offerings...
Difficult to determine in Las Vegas.
On the city streets, I see plenty smaller bikes.
Around Lake Mead, mostly BT H-D.
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A wee anecdote when it comes to power.
A couple of years ago john r and myself went to the Guzzi rally which was in John's home town, about 650kms from me. I had just been rear ended in my works vehicle the week before and had a frozen and painful whiplash neck. The fact that I was able to do it in one sitting belting in to a gale for half the trip speaks volumes for the comfort. Once down there John's bike had a major issue and we ended up going two up on the Breva. I rode pillion while John piloted due to my neck issues. Together we must scale over 200kgs, as John is far taller than me. By the end of the rally he said he could not believe how well the Breva pulled us around and commented that if he had known how good they were he would have been more than happy with the small block. He described it as a "wee jewel".
Even with our load on, sitting on the back to me it still appeared sprightly and had absolutely no problems hauling us around. :thumb:
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In the early 70s, 750cc displacement was considered a lot of bike. Honda 350s were considered middle ground. As time went on 900-1000cc seemed to be the middle ground, and for most of us this seemed about right. I loved my Lemans V, but I always felt like the engine was moving a lot of heavy parts around. As technology has improved, 750cc displacement has now far exceeded in power what it was in the 70s, with the added benefit that the bike is lighter in weight and the engine spools up effortlessly. Whether the block is large or small makes no difference to me, as long as the bike has adequate power and its weight is acceptable. I don't particularly like weight savings by substituting plastic parts for metal, and in this regard, both Guzzi and Harley are winners. I can't tell you how much easier and more fun my "small block" Stornello is to ride compared to my "large block" V7 Sport with the same displacement. Both have lots of metal and have that mechanical visceral feel, both have very good power, but only one is effortless to ride. I suppose the large block, being so under-stressed would last longer, but I'm not certain of that.
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People tend to think that all significant change has happened since they started paying attention at age 20 . . .
But displacement inflation has been with us nearly forever.
Triumph introduced the 500cc Speed Twin in 1937. By 1973 it had grown to the T140 750.
<snip>
So -- the ceiling has been rising for a long time.
Good point BUT look at the rate of acceleration in CCs.
1937-73 (36 years), increased 250cc
In contrast
1984-2017 (33 years), Harley BTs increased 410cc
And in that time frame Triumph debuted a 2.3L RIII
So I'm saying the rate of growth increased dramatically, but yes, part of it could be my particular perception.
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Doc might be onto something, we might be seeing a backlash or swing of the pendulum with the introduction of a few smaller displacement model replacements.
Any examples other than the Triumphs?
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Air-cooled made a really good point. Today's 750 makes a ton more power than a 40-year-old 750, at the same weight. Improvements in metallurgy, FI and ignition, redline and water cooling mean you get a lot more performance in a lightweight bike now, so why muscle around a beast?
The only "modern" bike I have in this respect is the F650, a carbureted watercooled thumper. It's a lot more civilized than the TR6R and despite the single lung is smoother at freeway speeds. I seriously considered a Breva 750 before buying this thing, and the decision swung on a screaming good price for the Aprilia/Rotax/Beemer.
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This "Bottom line: It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow"
Even back in 1979 as much as I loved the rush and the power of my Yamaha XS1100,,,,,, my favorite bike, and the only one, I really regretted getting rid of was my SR500.
I've always loved the light, responsive flickability of big singles,,,37 yrs later,,, as much as I love the power and legs of a big bike on the highway,,, my DR650 has more smiles per pound, in a nice simple package, and is the one out of the garage for errands and town runs.
I don't like the feeling of being on a bike, if I'm constantly holding it back,,, I like to twist the throttle,lol,,, but the combination of heavy and ponderous, with high horsepower and speed,,, is the type of thing that will get me in trouble,,, I know that, imho.
fwiw
Kelly
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I like to feel like I can just grab my bike by the handlebars and jerk it into the next lane when some brain dead cager decides to lurch from a driveway into my path.
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There's significant crossover between the smaller-is-better wave and the retro wave. Retro bike riders are often mocked for chasing an image rather than performance, but I say, what's wrong with that? What's wrong with choosing a motorcycle specifically because it inspires feelings that harken back to a bygone days. Small displacement is part and parcel of that feeling. You could cross the country on a K1600, in record time, without ever having the feeling you get riding for a few country road hours on a V7.
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Because 50 hp gets you down the road in fine style and 400 lbs is a lot easier to move around the garage or a parking lot than 800 lbs. Went to look at a friend's new bike this weekend. Bike weighs about 700 lbs and is considered a "girls bike" within a certain biking community. WAY too heavy for my taste. Guzzis are on the upper end of the weight distribution for me. Above that, it's just not a motorcycle.
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Not a small block guy, sorry, although it may come one day AFTER I'm through getting my
Big block "Jones on".Har,har.
But, and this may have been mentioned here?, Insurance for smaller displacement bikes
would seem cheaper on average, no ?
Just another small block check in the plus column.
:bike-037:
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Gratuitous shot of my beauty...
(http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/c181.0.718.718/14592143_361829837499034_6405696963227942912_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTM3ODg0NTkxMTA3MzAwMDM0Mw%3D%3D.2.c)
Your bike looks spectacular Guzz. Please take the silly leather "thing" off the key. It'll just bugger up the finish on an otherwise gorgeous machine and for no good reason. Can we see the rest of your lovely bike ? and on the topic of why a bigger bike ? For what I do now, I wouldn't want anything smaller. The argument about " my bike'll do anything I want adequately does hold water, but what is it you're doing ? What happens when you're on your perfectly "adequate" V 50 Monza and you have a lot of gear aboard 'cos you like to be comfortable, it's windy as hell on the nose with occasional side gusts at 25 kts, the trucks are doing 110 kph belching diesel back at you and you have 300 k's to go and it's getting dark.... So you decide to pass the 3 transports in front to get some clear air and you feel the throttle touch the stop as you pull out. Bugger all of that, I wouldn't deliberately ride something that was operating close to it's performance margins just to prove a point ( whatever it is), and the term "adequate" is just plain distasteful when used in the context of a bike. Deciding to downsize is perfectly fine, but I hate the feeling that my bike is protesting at the workload it's been given, it just hangs on you like a wet blanket.
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OK, I've been looking for an angle on a future Revzilla article based on what seems to me to be a growing popularity of smaller displacement bikes such as the Guzzi smallblock, the Duc Scrambler, Triumph Bonnies, heck even the Harley Sportsters and much of JAPanInc's sub liter line.
So is that a correct impression (that they are becoming more popular in the face of bigger, faster, more capable machines)?
And if you are one who has either forsaken larger bikes or who finds a preference for these smaller machines, why?
I'd really like some testimonials from people (preferably all over the world) who are willing to answer some questions.
Let me know here, and if you might want to participate (answer a half dozen or so questions in an email and maybe provide a pic or two of yourself and your bike) let me know in a PM.
So how about it, WHY?
For me, light is right, so I always drive/ride the smallest, lightest machine I can, and which can satisfy my needs.
I'm 6.5 tall, and I own a BMW 1-series instead of a X-something, because when I drive on twisty roads, I can feel the difference (by the way, regardless what "people" say, you can carry a great deal of stuff in a small car, that has a decent trunk lid. I could drive the entire family of 3, with full baggage for a 2-weeks vacation, including diapers, grocery and a folding baby bed.
Going back to bikes, I went for the small frame for the same reason. And I went for the V75, so that I could have the biggest available engine in the smallest available frame.
Reasons are 2:
- practicality: when I ride in Milano, every kg and every cm counts. a smaller turning radius could make the difference between queueing up among all those cars in that narrow street, and being able to zip away.
- fun: light is right
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The only "modern" bike I have in this respect is the F650, a carbureted watercooled thumper. It's a lot more civilized than the TR6R and despite the single lung is smoother at freeway speeds. I seriously considered a Breva 750 before buying this thing, and the decision swung on a screaming good price for the Aprilia/Rotax/Beemer.
The funny thing was that I rode the CS650 (belt drive) and it just did not feel right. After a lot of miles on a bike the where the headlight pointed where the bike was heading I could not get used to the fact that the headlight pointed straight ahead on the CS. Coupled to that, the one I test rode was the single plugged model and it had a surge at 50kmh., which put me right off. The ones on the water were evidently twin plugged which was supposed to get rid of the surge.
When I sat on the Breva it just felt right. End of story.
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I think of myself as a mostly practical guy...mostly. When it comes to motorcycles I believe anything over 850cc is really wasted. My V7 has all the power I would ever need. I had a GS1100E for a short period of time and by todays standards its small. That thing was way to fast. It was fun for all of 4 seconds and then you were going to get into real trouble. I understand that some people like big body bikes because they feel more stable or comfortable to them. But do ya really need 1800cc to pull it around? I get the wonderful feeling of torque and a big fat bike with an 850 in probably wouldn't cut the mustard. My attitude towards big bikes probably isn't helped by the fact that I'm 5'6". I like to tell people that offer me to ride their whale bikes, "if I can't pick it up by myself if it falls over, I'm not riding it".
Funny story about me calling them whale bikes, I was riding with my older brother (1300cc Yamaha Royal star) and my uncle (1800cc Indian) and we came upon a dead end. I just whipped around on my V65c and then proceeded to chuckle as they wrestled with their bikes making 4 point turns. The whole time all I could hear in my head was whale noises.
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Great responses all.
I've got some ideas and will hopefully try to put "pen to paper" tomorrow.
But don't let that stop you... I like hearing the different points of view (even if many aren't all that different).
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Guess I was omitted from the parameters based on size. At 5'3" 130# the largest bikes have been more than I've been willing to live with long term. 1200cc has been my largest, my Norge and Roadster. Probably the most enjoyable test ride ever taken was on the V7II. Other factors tilted the scale to the Roadster on this most recent purchase, and not one included "bad ass", loud pipes, or tattoos. Time will tell. I like them all (brands, styles, ect..), pretty much anything 2 wheels. Shoulda been a test rider/writer for a magazine :cool:. Glad to see smaller gaining in popularity. Nuff said I guess...
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OK, I've been looking for an angle on a future Revzilla article based on what seems to me to be a growing popularity of smaller displacement bikes such as the Guzzi smallblock, the Duc Scrambler, Triumph Bonnies, heck even the Harley Sportsters and much of JAPanInc's sub liter line.
So is that a correct impression (that they are becoming more popular in the face of bigger, faster, more capable machines)?
And if you are one who has either forsaken larger bikes or who finds a preference for these smaller machines, why?
I'd really like some testimonials from people (preferably all over the world) who are willing to answer some questions.
Let me know here, and if you might want to participate (answer a half dozen or so questions in an email and maybe provide a pic or two of yourself and your bike) let me know in a PM.
So how about it, WHY?
My take on it:
Older riders wanting lighter bikes that are economically priced and classically styled.
Yes, I know there are some younger riders on V7s/Bonnies/etc.. They would fall into the "economically priced and classically styled" part of the equation.
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Not a small block guy, sorry, although it may come one day AFTER I'm through getting my
Big block "Jones on".Har,har.
But, and this may have been mentioned here?, Insurance for smaller displacement bikes
would seem cheaper on average, no ?
Just another small block check in the plus column.
:bike-037:
I have owned both big blocks and small blocks. Negligible/Nominal difference in insurance pricing, so that would not be a deciding factor, in my experience.
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I have owned both big blocks and small blocks. Negligible/Nominal difference in insurance pricing, so that would not be a deciding factor, in my experience.
That probably depends on where you live and how old you are too though.
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Not interview worthy information, but I love jumping on my old Vespas and prefer them over the Guzzi in many situations, like running to the grocery store around the corner. Feels less stressful to ride at times, and then I get renewed reward when I ride the guzzi again after the Vespa, so it's a constant win-win.
May not be the same for smaller motorcycles you're inquiring about, but what's nice about the Vespa, or at least the models I own is that you can sit a bag of charcoal, or a 12-pack soda pack on the floorboards and go.. Sometimes both those things at once, and sometimes even more!
That's my experience as well. I find the Vespa is quite stress free compared to my v7 stone. The GTS '300' motor (i think its really only 270 or so cc's) allows me to just enjoy the ride without a clutch, with weight down low, leg shield covering much or your body, just a relatively quite and pleasant ride. With a top box, I've carried multiple bags of groceries, gallons of milk, cases of soda, etc. So a practical aspect is gained over the Guzzi.
Maybe age also has something to do with it, but I'm just not so much in a hurry as I once was.
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I bought a VF750F when that first 'super bike' came off the production line. I think it weighed 550 pounds. Even the tiny front tire couldn't help it feeling like a barge after I tried the new (then) GSXR. Sold one, bought one; thought I was 'there'. Then a buddy put me on his RZ350...... and a fan of 'small' was born. At one point I owned a Morini 3 1/2 and still, to this day, feel it was the most fun machine I've ever owned. As for my current V7; it has about 25k km on it over three summers of riding here in Yukon and Alaska. It tours, it commutes, it has been past the ton any number of times and can whistle through bends that scare the footboards off the Harley guys I occasionally ride with. Ironically I chose small because I wanted to be ale to pick it up if/when it /I fell over. Then I developed rheumatoid arthritis and may be restricted to riding to town and back ... or just looking at it wistfully. Who knows?
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I love my Vespa GTS Super 300 with ABS and traction control. It is light-weight, easy to handle, and very quick, and it always puts a smile on my face! Plus, for the kind of riding I do on it, I do not always feel the need to gear up for battle. (Please, no preaching!)
I think many riders are ordinary people who like to ride now and then but not all the time, and certainly not in heavy traffic, in the dark, and in the rain. A light-weight, easily maneuverable bike is just the ticket!
I love my Norge, too, but it is different: much more serious and heavy, requiring a much greater commitment when taking it out for a ride (heaving it into position for take-off), riding it, and putting it away (heaving it back into its stored position).
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Being under 50 years of age, it seems like I'm one of the younger guys riding a V7ii. I "gave up" more than 50hp in downsizing from my ST4S street bike. I have been riding for a long time, and have lots of track days on some pretty fast bikes. So why did I do it?
Because I realized that it is much easier to have fun at a reasonable pace on this thing. Sure, the stock suspension is crap, but I've fixed that already. The cheap insurance is a bonus, but it's not why I did it. I wanted a 400 lb bike that was a bit different.
I normally ride with bikes that have twice the horsepower, so it can be challenging when it comes time to pass. But I get by ok and just plan my moves a bit more. It gets interesting when the road gets twisty, as I normally pass most of them - and that's the point - you can't judge a bike by the numbers.
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I guess I do have something to add after all. As mentioned above, with the lower HP there are passes you just can't pull off.
But, when I was on a much higher powered bike with nowhere to pass or having to make yet another "stoopid" maneuver to get around someone in the twisties-well, now instead of riding 15 miles all frustrated and looking to jet by I can just back off for a moment and then ride full out for a while until I catch up again. Repeat as needed and Bob's your Uncle. No need to get risky.
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Your bike looks spectacular Guzz. Please take the silly leather "thing" off the key. It'll just bugger up the finish on an otherwise gorgeous machine and for no good reason. Can we see the rest of your lovely bike ?
Thank you sir! >10K miles and no issues with that leather key holder. Hahaha... The thing that DID cause some issues was the tank bag I use when I take it on longer trips. I make sure I "tape up" the area of the tank that was in risk of contact with the bag handle. But no big deal. More updates coming this year, but here she is in touring mode before the tail was cleaned up and clip-ons installed...
(http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/c0.111.891.891/13584257_1733781110244266_1088674836_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTI4OTIwODM4NjE2MDYwMjA0Mg%3D%3D.2.c)
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My solution.........If you are having problems with a heavy bike there is no need to sell it, stick a sidecar on it. If you want to have fun without the hassle this is the way to go........... No more putting it on a stand, no more putting your feet down, and the ability to take all your stuff with you.
The only disadvantage is everyone including your dog wants to ride in the sidecar, and constantly having to wave back at people wherever you go..
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15241320_1715459672104763_1839274370567222488_n.jpg?oh=b5d6d09c176ecc54707848d187c30e29&oe=5971C657)
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17191250_1771921163125280_7697054277271080707_n.jpg?oh=a51255c3139efbf2502fb3bcdf0e5376&oe=5936F76B)
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16602863_1757203314597065_5814479141048589332_n.jpg?oh=94fb5c3481b57d64f724223f0b542158&oe=592AF86F)
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Thank you sir! >10K miles and no issues with that leather key holder. Hahaha... The thing that DID cause some issues was the tank bag I use when I take it on longer trips. I make sure I "tape up" the area of the tank that was in risk of contact with the bag handle. But no big deal. More updates coming this year, but here she is in touring mode before the tail was cleaned up and clip-ons installed...
(http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/c0.111.891.891/13584257_1733781110244266_1088674836_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTI4OTIwODM4NjE2MDYwMjA0Mg%3D%3D.2.c)
Ok good to hear mate. Looks great, enjoy !
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One other thing is the population in the US and how many people are on two wheels. Around our area, admittedly a university is here, there are a TON of scooters. I would even venture to say that there are as many scooters on the road at any one time as there are motorcycles.
Far, far different than when I was a kid. Back then the only people who rode scooters were ones who could not afford a 'real' motorcycle.
So, there is another huge component of people who have gone smaller and lighter on two wheels.
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Campuses are different. People are always graduating and leaving town. That means lots of used scooters, cheap. Not like in a big city.
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I think for many of us, the small block is the culmination of a progression of bikes. We may not start on a big block (not a great idea anyway), but we follow the "bigger is better" mindset - until we experience the consequence of piloting a big machine.
I got back into riding 7 years ago with a '90 K100LT, a lovely 600 lb. 90 hp machine. The first time I dropped it going out to look at a lighthouse north of St. John, NL trying to turn around going uphill on gravel. The second time I pulled in for gas, re-set the trip meter or some other silly thing, over which time I forgot I hadn't put the side stand down. By the time I realized my mistake the bike was too far over to catch.....Pretty embarrassing as I had to ask the kid watching me to help me right it: I was trapped between the bike and the island.
After a couple incidents like that, I realized I'd rather feel like I'm commanding my mount; not piloting it. I suspect I'm not alone. I'm 5'8", 170 and although 67, I'm a retired mason so pretty fit. The last thing I want to feel is trepidation while parking or moving my motorcycle.
On my last bike, a 650 Vstrom, I didn't mind being on the balls of my feet - at first. Even that began to bother me, especially after putting down a low side foot at a stop and not be able to get the bike back upright without being rescued by a friend.
My Breva750 may be considered a girl's bike but when I compare it to the "big" bikes of the '60s and '70s, it's a very full size motorcycle. I'm reminded of how heavy it is every time I take it off the side stand, which I think has the bike leaned over a bit far. Then getting on and being on flat feet is a very reassuring feeling.
I don't lust for bigger faster bikes anymore. I'd get another dual sport but my knees aren't able to absorb shock when riding on the pegs like they did even a few years ago. I'm so happy to own a bike that I love it's looks and the sound it makes. :thumb:
It's a journey, that progression that many of us small block owners go through. Happy to have arrived... :grin:
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For me, as a relatively new rider, I needed something with more power since I live in the sticks, but wanted something still light and easy to maneuver. I generally don't like larger vehicles. My car is a subcompact.
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Health and strength issues forced a downsizing...
Also a desire to simplify...
Now that I'm here, I keep asking myself if the smallblocks have a better power to weight ratio?
My Nevada at 400 lbs has 48 ponies...8.3
compared to
EV at 550-625 pounds with 65 ponies...call it six hundred pounds...9.2. Somehow, the lighter Nevada feels better..
Also it's a return to my origins of learning on a light quick mid weight bike. I've gotten tired of big barges...but I only do 100 mile short trips anymore
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Health and strength issues forced a downsizing...
Also a desire to simplify...
Now that I'm here, I keep asking myself if the smallblocks have a better power to weight ratio?
My Nevada at 400 lbs has 48 ponies...8.3
compared to
EV at 550-625 pounds with 65 ponies...call it six hundred pounds...9.2. Somehow, the lighter Nevada feels better..
Also it's a return to my origins of learning on a light quick mid weight bike. I've gotten tired of big barges...but I only do 100 mile short trips anymore
I suspect your numbers are off a bit.
That Nevada # is crankshaft and not rear but that EV number is RWHP.
And neither takes YOUR weight into consideration which is a bigger percentage increase in weight (which will hurt the ratio) to the Nevada than the Cali.
Now if you do look at RWHP figures but ignore rider weight a Jackal and a Roamer are almost identical hp/weight ratio.
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When I started riding back in the 50's I had 2 Indians, 74 inch and 37 inch. Stripped and fun to ride. Since then nothing but BMW airheads. I noticed that I only went fast in the desert, Calif. freeways were their own speed limiters. The back country was too beautiful not to enjoy, so smaller bikes seemed to be the answer, and I was getting older and weaker. The last one before the B750 was an F650 that fell over on me 3 times while standing still, so time for a bike with good performance and sized for a 29" inseam. I ride at 7000' and above and the Breva 750 is fast and nimble enough to keep up with anyone I want to keep up with. So far, the perfect bike (except not starting once in a while).
Jurgen
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My Breva750 may be considered a girl's bike but when I compare it to the "big" bikes of the '60s and '70s, it's a very full size motorcycle.
I think that name originated from when they first came out. One of the (few) accessories available fro it was a lower by 30mm drop seat for the vertically challenged. They did refer to it as a "ladies" seat, females tending to be shorter. At that stage (around 2003) big block owners tended to sneer at the small blocks, mixed in the seat reference, and called it a girls bike.
Now I am pleased to say many have come to appreciate the modern small blocks. I found it interesting on W.G. to see the gradual transformation. Many started by grabbing the "wife's Breva" to duck down to the hardware store as it was much easier to handle around town.
The rest as they say, is history. :thumb:
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Here's something... Why are most of the Guzzi riders (here at least), old geezers like me and even older geeeeezers like you? :grin: Ducati and Triumph are longstanding brands as well and they seem to have more evenly-spread rider demographic. What is it about Guzzi that attracts the old & crusty grumps? Present company included... (http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/smilies/afm199.gif)
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For me, light is right, so I always drive/ride the smallest, lightest machine I can, and which can satisfy my needs.
Less, is best.
After all, Pirsig traveled cross county on a Honda 305. Two up, as well.
No one needs more. Put a harness on your ego.
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Here's something... Why are most of the Guzzi riders (here at least), old geezers like me and even older geeeeezers like you? :grin: Ducati and Triumph are longstanding brands as well and they seem to have more evenly-spread rider demographic. What is it about Guzzi that attracts the old & crusty grumps? Present company included... (http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/smilies/afm199.gif)
With age comes wisdom, they say. At some point in your life you realize that a Guzzi can be forever. No need to lose 5K (or more) in depreciation on a new bike that really won't do anything better than what you have every 2 or 3 years..
I was looking at a $15K Ducati sport tourer the other day. Pretty thing in white. As nearly as I can tell, though, the Mighty Scura will do everything that duck will do, so I serviced the Ohlins forks (better than the duck's) greased the steering head bearings, installed new tires, and cleaned up a few years worth of rust and corrosion. <shrug> It'll still be soldiering on when many high dollar bikes are in the boneyard. :smiley: :boozing:
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Here's something... Why are most of the Guzzi riders (here at least), old geezers like me and even older geeeeezers like you? :grin: Ducati and Triumph are longstanding brands as well and they seem to have more evenly-spread rider demographic. What is it about Guzzi that attracts the old & crusty grumps? Present company included... (http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/smilies/afm199.gif)
Wrong question, IMO. The real question is "What is it about Guzzi that doesn't attract the young'uns?
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Wrong question, IMO. The real question is "What is it about Guzzi that doesn't attract the young'uns?
Good point. The Kid was a duck guy. He was in his 30s and said he was "still too young" for a Guzzi. :smiley: I'd just finished up a major service on the Centauro, and told him to suit up and take it out. After a while, he was gone considerably longer than I expected. I began to worry. Did I forget to properly torque something? Has he crashed??
Finally, I heard it coming down the road. He got off, and said, "I'd never have believed it, but this sled will outrun my Duck." I said, "<shrug>" :smiley: Not too long after that, he bought his first, a greenie, and has had nothing but Guzzis since.
Guzzis have a rep for being overbuilt and under powered. That's my guess why most kids aren't interested.
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With age comes wisdom
Precisely what I was going to say.
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Here's something... Why are most of the Guzzi riders (here at least), old geezers like me and even older geeeeezers like you? :grin: Ducati and Triumph are longstanding brands as well and they seem to have more evenly-spread rider demographic. What is it about Guzzi that attracts the old & crusty grumps? Present company included... (http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/smilies/afm199.gif)
Some of us are trying to bring the average down.
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Young guys need to see someone famous do something noteworthy (in their eyes), on a given bike for it to have any attraction to them. They are less likely to want to exist, or be seen to be a fringe element. When Guzzi start winning WSBK races, there will be a new super factory gracing the shores of Lake Como to adjust to customer demand. I sorta hope it never happens 'cos I don't want to see Guzzies become " common" although I'll readily admit it would help secure brand longevity. I'm starting to care less about such things, I think I'll be dead before my bike is...
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I've shown this before, it interests me: (http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2016/2016-Honda-Bulldog1-small.jpg) http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2016/2016-Honda-Bulldog.htm
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Some of us are trying to bring the average down.
That's what I was doing when I started riding Guzzis in my 30's.
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The Bulldog looks interesting, Shorty. I couldn't find the weight. Tire choices will be limited, I suspect. Not too different than my CB500X except it probably doesn't have the ground clearance or suspension travel of an X. Thinking about it, I'm not sure what demographic this bike is targeting, other than short folks.
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Ok Chuck, When and where did you get that beautiful little Monza? That is wicked cool and I might have to go visit you just to try it out.
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Ok Chuck, When and where did you get that beautiful little Monza? That is wicked cool and I might have to go visit you just to try it out.
Hiya Rolf! Of course, you're always welcome. :thumb: :smiley: I was laying in the hospital recovering from a cancer operation. Brad was there surfing on his phone, and said, "Haven't you been looking for a Monza for a long time?" "Uhh, yeah." "There's one on Ebay in Pennsylvania, looks like it is unmolested, and the price is right. Want me to hit the buy it now?" Knowing full well a guy shouldn't make any decisions with some major drugs floating around in his system, I said, "Uhhh, no." He said, "Are you sure? I'll deliver it..you know as well as I do that they don't come up for sale very often." "Uhhh, let me see it." :grin:
Naturally, he was giving me a little something to cheer me up, and it did. I actually got a little excited. :smiley:
It's a hoot, and will *probably* be my last motorcycle purchase.
If you want to go to the Wisconsin rally, I'll bring it up to Brad's place for you to ride..
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The Bulldog looks interesting, Shorty. I couldn't find the weight. Tire choices will be limited, I suspect. Not too different than my CB500X except it probably doesn't have the ground clearance or suspension travel of an X. Thinking about it, I'm not sure what demographic this bike is targeting, other than short folks.
I don't know, either, but it would be a hoot in camo with the optional rope pull starter :laugh:
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Hiya Rolf! Of course, you're always welcome. :thumb: :smiley: I was laying in the hospital recovering from a cancer operation. Brad was there surfing on his phone, and said, "Haven't you been looking for a Monza for a long time?" "Uhh, yeah." "There's one on Ebay in Pennsylvania, looks like it is unmolested, and the price is right. Want me to hit the buy it now?" Knowing full well a guy shouldn't make any decisions with some major drugs floating around in his system, I said, "Uhhh, no." He said, "Are you sure? I'll deliver it..you know as well as I do that they don't come up for sale very often." "Uhhh, let me see it." :grin:
Naturally, he was giving me a little something to cheer me up, and it did. I actually got a little excited. :smiley:
It's a hoot, and will *probably* be my last motorcycle purchase.
If you want to go to the Wisconsin rally, I'll bring it up to Brad's place for you to ride..
I just might do that. It would give me a chance to bring Amos to the farm.
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So how about it, WHY?
Because I want to be like you, Kev. Picked this one up this week and had one wonderful warm day to ride before the cold set back in.
Seriously though, I like medium and small displacement bikes because I have a tendency to twist the throttle and end up going too fast on larger displacement bikes. Most of the roads that we ride are back country roads. If I was on my old Ducati Monster or hopped-up Harley I'd still be doing 90 mph on the straights. It is nice to be able the twist the throttle coming out of a corner, feel the engine pull, and be doing the speed limit on my 750cc Guzzi. An added bonus is that I can enjoy the sights more.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Misc/IMG_5768_zps7bu0dc5o.jpg)
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Because I want to be like you, Kev. Picked this one up this week and had one wonderful warm day to ride before the cold set back in.
Seriously though, I like medium and small displacement bikes because I have a tendency to twist the throttle and end up going too fast on larger displacement bikes. Most of the roads that we ride are back country roads. If I was on my old Ducati Monster or hopped-up Harley I'd still be doing 90 mph on the straights. It is nice to be able the twist the throttle coming out of a corner, feel the engine pull, and be doing the speed limit on my 750cc Guzzi. An added bonus is that I can enjoy the sights more.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Misc/IMG_5768_zps7bu0dc5o.jpg)
Nice!
Not the bike, the part about me. [emoji6] [emoji41] [emoji48]
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This reminds me of a former Guzzisti who had a 650 Lario and sold it, bought a Ducati 900 Monster when they were new. Next time I saw him he was on a Yamaha 250 single. :huh: Asked him what happened to his Lario. Told me about the 900 Monster deal and getting 3 speeding tickets with it real soon. :copcar: That's when he downsized to a single from thereafter. Same reason I got rid of my LeMans IV years ago and ride a 750 Breva now. :grin: But I made the switch before I got a ticket. A man gots ta know his limitations.
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Seriously, and NOT to start an argument, but... Why is it perceived as difficult to keep a bike at the desired speed just because it's capable of doing much more. Do you twist the throttle and accept what speed it gives you, or decide what speed you want and give it the appropriate amount of berries ? Is it harder to sit on 120 kph on a Hyabusa than it is on a 750 Breva ? You look at the speedo and hold the throttle where it needs to be. Of course the Suzuki will do it so damn easily that you'll be at that speed much sooner but surely that's a skill that should be fully instilled by the time you're on these things. I should be more mature, but it bugs the crap out of me when I hear.. " Oh, I sold the ZX 14 'cos it was too fast for me"... What a crock ! If you exit a corner and accelerate from 75 k's to 120 k's on your 750, there's nothing stopping you from accelerating at the same rate on your ZX14, you're just using a lot less of it's potential to achieve the same end result. If you're in La La land so much that you're not aware of the speed you've achieved, it might be time to pose another question to yourself, and yes, that applies to me as well.
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Actually Huzo it's a simple concept called "temptation" and it's easy to give into.
Also, as mentioned early in this thread many feel it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast then a fast bike slow. Which is related to the temptation.
Most slower bikes are less isolating from the speed. You can go WOT and run it through the gears and wind up below the ton.
You feel every mph as the bike is likely less smooth, less forgiving, it's being pushed harder and you can sense it.
But on that ZX you're breaking the ton before 3rd. That ZX can do it so effortlessly that it masks the sensation of speed. You look down at the speedo and suddenly realize you're going way faster than you intended because it felt right.
And once you do that you find yourself catching up to faster and faster traffic. You think to yourself well I'll just pass this guy and get some open road and slow down, but you don't.
Or you think to yourself this might be my last chance to pass for a while and it's tight but this bike is capable of warp speed I'll just make one really fast pass. But you get home an hour later thinking crap I was rarely below the ton that ride, I didn't intend to do that.
So no it's not a crock.
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It's not just temptation. Spirited take offs on my V7 are fun, they feel fast, they feel good. That same good feeling taking off on the GS1100E ending up 40 mph faster in the same time (don't know that for sure, just an example). You just don't have that urgency on fast bikes. Yes I can ride a fast bike slow, but you know it's a fast bike and you want to feel it. I don't recall ever looking down on the GS and saying "oh @#%&! I'm doing 80 mph down the open road" when I thought I was doing 60.
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Zen riding, at just the right speed, not thrill seeking or racing, smell the smells, see the surroundings
Leasure!
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This is a no-joke issue--it's The Problem I've wrestled with a lot. Kev nailed the diagnosis.
Yes, in theory you can ride a fast bike at a slower pace. But for some folks, including myself, that can be hard to do in practice.
I recently bought a Triumph Street Triple, and after 5 months and 5,000 miles, I'm seriously tempted to sell it for precisely this reason. It's too smooth and boring to just cruise on it at normal speeds. In contrast, the Guzzi is perfectly pleasant to just doodle along.
The Triumph engine makes an annoying "sawing" sound on partial steady throttle, unlike the always melodic Guzzi. But if you twist the Triumph throttle, its engine makes a delightful intake howl, and the bike leaps forward. So now it sounds good and isn't boring---a transition that tempts you to repeat that over and over.
And as mentioned above, because you can hit Warp 9 so easily, and are tempted to go there anyway, you wind up using that ability to make too many banzai passes in limited distance scenarios, or impatiently pass a cluster of slower moving cars.
I've had The Problem with an 82 Suzuki GS1100E years ago. It happened again with a Yamaha FJR. I more or less deliberately solved The Problem by buying a Guzzi V7 and a little 250 Ninja. Then I screwed up and brought back The Problem with the Triumph.
Currently looking at a KTM 690 Duke. Yeah, that's the ticket.
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Good point. *Really* fast bikes are boring to ride sedately. I can cane the the Monza, have a good time, and nobody seems to notice. :smiley: It's pleasant doodling along, or going as fast as it can. It really *is* more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow..
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I sold my Street 3 for exactly that reason.
As for holding any speed-it's entirely in the realm of possibility. I think, however it sounds, that machines have a certain "spot" where they are comfortable. The S3, to me, simply didn't feel happy at anything under 100mph. At a sustained 40-45-55 it felt like it couldn't wait to run out from underneath me. The bike was always asking for more. And at times, it got it-and it was a blast. But that's not the way to run on a public road IMHO.
My Bonnies and V7 seem entirely pleased and happy at 55 to 70. And I indulge them there most willingly. Now, it may just be my perception, and I'm out lunch, but the others who responded may feel all or part of this way.
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The little 750's :) are no doubt more practical , but the bigger bikes are MUCH more fun. The fun bit is what it's all about as far as I'm concerned, that's why I have a sidecar outfit, and also a big block Guzzi.
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Yep, there's nothing in those previous posts that I, or anyone else can say is incorrect. However, putting strategies in place so as you don't give into "temptation", to me is something I don't subscribe to personally but I think that's more a function of the type of riding I've drifted into in recent years. When touring these days far from home, I guess I've set myself up to reduce as close to zero as I can, the tension that builds when you feel your bike is being forced to try hard and the thought that something will give up on you starts to worm it's way into your thoughts. I completely agree that the droning sound that comes from a large four like an FJR can become (for me) featureless after a long time. Anything below 900 cc's when loaded starts to show it's limitations at the worst times, fine when there aren't too many adverse factors, but when there are.... Large BMW's are excellent "tools",( but if I wanted a tool to have fun with I'd glance elsewhere), I find they have the personality of a wooden spoon. I must be drawing my satisfaction from a different source and one of those areas is the fact that I'm giving my bike the tools it needs to do the job I'm asking of it. I know it's a bit trite, but I wouldn't jump on a ZX14 Kawasaki rocket ship and remove 1 plug lead so it was harder to forget and be "tempted" to ride too fast just 'cos it felt like an overweight 1050 triple. Although I had one of those for 70,000 and I loved it, so I wonder....Just get the bike that suits the purpose, thing is. We all have a different purpose, what bugs me is when one guy tries to apply his philosophy to someone else with a different agenda.
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When touring these days far from home, I guess I've set myself up to reduce as close to zero as I can, the tension that builds when you feel your bike is being forced to try hard and the thought that something will give up on you starts to worm it's way into your thoughts.
<snip>
I know it's a bit trite, but I wouldn't jump on a ZX14 Kawasaki rocket ship and remove 1 plug lead so it was harder to forget and be "tempted" to ride too fast just 'cos it felt like an overweight 1050 triple.
<snip>
We all have a different purpose, what bugs me is when one guy tries to apply his philosophy to someone else with a different agenda.
Though I understand your temptation to feel the way if a bike seems to be constantly operating at 8/10 or 9/10, I suspect that it's a false impression. I mean, I doubt most of us even operate a smallblock at more than 5/10 most of the time.
I wouldn't pull a plug wire either, it's much easier just to buy the right bike for me in the first place.
I have to call you out on that last line though cause maybe I missed it but neither the concept of this thread or any post I recall reading in it suggested this needs to fit your desires.
The entire OP was asking individuals WHY THEY chose this path, not suggesting it was a mandatory universal path.
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Yeah Kev, not so much on this thread 'cos I reckon most of us are "live and let live" types, but it happens a fair bit in general buggerising around, you'll see and/or hear an insecure type bagging your choice because it doesn't fit his picture of the world.
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Yeah Kev, not so much on this thread 'cos I reckon most of us are "live and let live" types, but it happens a fair bit in general buggerising around, you'll see and/or hear an insecure type bagging your choice because it doesn't fit his picture of the world.
Oh yeah not doubting it. Seems like that's half the conversations motorcyclists have their whole friggin lifetimes (anti-Harley, anti-BMW, anti-JAPanInc., Anti-cruiser, anti-sportbike, anti-whatever.
I still get stuck engaging those types sometimes, but more and more I try to just move on.
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Oh yeah but doubting it. Seems like that's half the conversations motorcyclists have their whole friggin lifetimes (anti-Harley, anti-BMW, anti-JAPanInc., Anti-cruiser, anti-sportbike, anti-whatever.
I still get stuck engaging those types sometimes, but more and more I try to just move on.
Most of it is a pissing contest !
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Is it harder to sit on 120 kph on a Hyabusa than it is on a 750 Breva ? You look at the speedo and hold the throttle where it needs to be.
Funny you should mention this Huzo.
My Breva is in mph, 60mph = 4000rpm. so far so good. On a longer trip I must confess that (in fact most of the time) I use the the rev counter as my speedo. The dial on the speedo is just so darn busy with all the mph markings on the outside and kmh on the inside. At the 4000 the Breva is starting to sing, but it LOVES 5000 rpm. I'm sure I have the throttle setting the same but the rev counter says otherwise. :rolleyes: 5000rpm and 75mph without doing anything. As I am on the superannuation these days I can't afford :copcar: :police: so I usually find a car that is going (just) above the correct speed to keep mine in check. As soon as a hill comes in to view then I will pass until I find the next car to follow.
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Funny you should mention this Huzo.
My Breva is in mph, 60mph = 4000rpm. so far so good. On a longer trip I must confess that (in fact most of the time) I use the the rev counter as my speedo. The dial on the speedo is just so darn busy with all the mph markings on the outside and kmh on the inside. At the 4000 the Breva is starting to sing, but it LOVES 5000 rpm. I'm sure I have the throttle setting the same but the rev counter says otherwise. :rolleyes: 5000rpm and 75mph without doing anything. As I am on the superannuation these days I can't afford :copcar: :police: so I usually find a car that is going (just) above the correct speed to keep mine in check. As soon as a hill comes in to view then I will pass until I find the next car to follow.
If I lived in heaven like you do Muzz, I'd piss the bike off and just walk around looking at the place !!! But seriously, I understand your feeling here. My Norge sounds velvety smooth with a beautiful "crack" as it were from the Staintune at 5-6,000 rpm but I might as well wipe my arse with my licence if I give in to that...
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I think this line of thought is becoming more important to me
as well - the just how much bike do I need question.
I see a lot of Classics at a mates Workshop the biggest grin
I've had recently was when he asked me to be ballast so he
could test ride an old BSA M21 Outfit (600cc S/Valve) he'd
tuned and checked for a Tasmanian trip. We only hit around
30 mph max but it felt like 60! Both of us were grinning like
fools and chuckling into our beards.
Never really felt the need to be the fastest kid on the block but
I do like good suspension, handling and brakes - but how good?
One way I think about it to myself is that Modern bikes are like
a CNC Machine - Ultimate precision that you only have to hit a
button to operate, stick a bit of raw wood in one end and a House
Comes out the other.
Whereas a classic/standard is more like a Hand Tool - precision
Only comes with practise and your own expertise, and there is
a lot of satisfaction to be had in developing that expertise.
Don't want to be a bump on a log that does everything better
than I can, But finding a bike with the right balance of attributes
isn't easy is it?
Maurie.
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I love these big bike, little bike, high power, low power, slow bike fast verses fast bike slow conversations. Personally I have more than one bike, from a 250 single to a 1300 inline four. They all have their purpose. I find riding my WR250X supermoto is really fun in tight curves and bombing around town. It will run 70 no problem but that does get tiring if done for very long. It is the bike most likely to get me a performance award because it is made to wheelie and jump curbs and such, things folks consider hooligan riding and draws a lot of attention. My FJR has a power windshield, electronic cruise control, gobs of power and good range. It's best at long distance traveling, but it is also my favorite commuter bike, and I enjoy it in the Ozarks as well as any of my other bikes. Of course where I live, I can't get anywhere interesting without burning a couple hours on the interstate. The other bikes, 500, 750, 900, 1200, all fit between and have their purpose. My wife has ridden our Honda CB500X in about 15 states heavily loaded when traveling. She does wish it had more power for passing or higher speed runs (West Texas has 85mph speed limits here most are running 90+) without feeling like she is ringing it out too much. But it has done just fine. Has about the same amount of power as her Breva 750, but she thinks it handles tight curves better.
Bottom line for me is I need more than just a hammer or a screw driver in my tool box, just as I need several different types of bikes. If I could only have one, right now it would probably be an FJ09. My son just bought a new one and that bike has a lot of positives. About 875cc and well under 500 lbs, good suspension, comfortable and can get done the road quite quickly.
I think it really comes down to how each person intends to use the bike and what they are comfortable on. Of course around here, in Dusty's nephew's town, most are riding big Harley butt jewelry. : )
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Yeah nothing wrong with living life at a slower pace once in a while on a beautiful Autumn (fall) day on your Belt Drive Parrafin burning, 1908 Excelsior Supreme Guzunthapede @ 25.4 mph... As long as you know your street legal MGS 01 Guzzi is in the shed with a CLEAN cloth over it for this afternoon !
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Kev, this is all dem big block heads need to know.. :boozing:(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a538/broughsuperior/smallblocks_zpsc28ffdb6.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/broughsuperior/media/smallblocks_zpsc28ffdb6.jpg.html)
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:bike-037:d
Kev, this is all dem big block heads need to know.. :boozing:(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a538/broughsuperior/smallblocks_zpsc28ffdb6.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/broughsuperior/media/smallblocks_zpsc28ffdb6.jpg.html)
Doubtless you're only joking Tazio, but did you read post #105 ?
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Wrong question, IMO. The real question is "What is it about Guzzi that doesn't attract the young'uns?
Part of the issue is that "old riders" like them.
Honda designed the Element for the young outdoor types and IMHO did a good job. I would have bought one when I was 30 - if they were available then. BUT, the Element caught the attention of the older outdoors type (like me) and they bought them. So then the "young'uns" would not be caught dead in them.
BMW was in the same demographic situation as Moto Guzzi but they seem to be having some success in attracting younger riders with their sport bikes and R9T.
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Doubtless you're only joking Tazio, but did you read post #105 ?
Yep and yep
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After reading this whole thread I went back and read the OP. Boy, how topics wander.
That said, I am interest in participating in your survey.
When I got back into motorcycling I was into dual sports and touring. Started on an KLR, and moved "up" to a KTM 950 and then a 800GS. A 25 mile ride on a friend's Stelvio brought me into the Moto Guzzi fan club. I bought a Stelvio but, after loving it for two years and 16,000 miles I finally accepted the fact that it was too big for me. I like to ride alone, and on dirt roads. I could not pick it up by myself. So I traded it in on a V7II Stone, and I could not be happier. I've added racks, bags, windshield and more. Dual sport tires are coming when the OEMs are worn out.
But also, in the last year and a half, I added two smaller bikes to the stable: a CSC RX3 - a 250cc adventure touring bike with full kit, and a CSC TT250 - a 230cc dual sport. They are both great fun.
I don't know if it is illusion or fact, but I feel that I ride these three bikes faster in the twisties than I did on any of my previous bikes. It is more fun to ride a slow bike fast!
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After reading this whole thread I went back and read the OP. Boy, how topics wander
I don't know if it is illusion or fact, but I feel that I ride these three bikes faster in the twisties than I did on any of my previous bikes. It is more fun to ride a slow bike fast!
Yeah, makes you "feel" fast.
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Thanks for the testimonials, watch this space tomorrow.
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Thanks for the testimonials, watch this space tomorrow.
Just a small one on the topic of giving in to the temptations of a large bike. By the time you're at our level of experience, YOU should be commanding the bike, and if it sucks you in, then you still own your own behaviour. Decide what performance you want and MAKE IT operate at that level, not where it "feels happy".
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Kev, this is all dem big block heads need to know.. :boozing:(http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a538/broughsuperior/smallblocks_zpsc28ffdb6.jpg) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/broughsuperior/media/smallblocks_zpsc28ffdb6.jpg.html)
Thought Kev made you promise NOT to show that picture of him :shocked:
Dusty
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Thought Kev made you promise NOT to show that picture of him :shocked:
Dusty
Promise ya', that kid's gonna grow up to be an *** hole ! You can tell by the look across his eyes...
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Thought Kev made you promise NOT to show that picture of him :shocked:
Dusty
I don't think I ever had that much hair.
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Thanks all to those who contributed:
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-some-riders-are-downsizing-to-smaller-motorcycles
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:1: Nice read, Kev.
You done good, lots of Guzzi love spread throughout the article.
Done more for the faithful than the mother ship has lately.
:thumb:
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Thought Kev made you promise NOT to show that picture of him :shocked:
Dusty
Nope.
THIS was the one he had a word of prayer about with me :afro:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/f8sk6F/1_zps905d1f77.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f8sk6F)
(http://imgbb.com/)
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Nope.
THIS was the one he had a word of prayer about with me :afro:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/f8sk6F/1_zps905d1f77.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f8sk6F)
(http://imgbb.com/)
[emoji15] [emoji23]
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Dang! That guy on the Lario is a handsome fella.. :smiley: :boozing:
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Dang! That guy on the Lario is a handsome fella.. :smiley: :boozing:
I assumed that was all Photoshop. [emoji56]
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Kev, this is after the fact http://tinyurl.com/lg4kk8m (http://tinyurl.com/lg4kk8m) (great article!) but had to add my two cents:
From my 1955 Triumph Tiger Cub http://tinyurl.com/lx6qy5k (http://tinyurl.com/lx6qy5k) (1 cyl, 200cc, 220 lbs) to my 2005 Honda Gold Wing http://tinyurl.com/kjoydmc (http://tinyurl.com/kjoydmc) (6 cyl, 1800cc, 920 lbs) I have pretty much had every kind of street bike and scooter one could dream of (but never had a Harley).
:boozing: I lift my glass to every one of them: http://dansher.com/mywheels.htm (http://dansher.com/mywheels.htm) :boozing:
Across 60+ years of riding, my best 2-wheeled friend of all , is - unquestionably - my current 2004 Guzzi Breva 750 http://tinyurl.com/7cgs96c (http://tinyurl.com/7cgs96c) (2 cyl, 750cc, 410 lbs].
It is the perfect distillation of what is FUN and manageable for an old...
'Geezer
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Well done, sir.
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Britain is a small island. From Lands End to John O'Groats it's only 870 miles. The motorways and major trunk roads, especially in England, are generally overcrowded, and horrible to take a bike on. Our best biking roads are the winding A and B roads, at least, where they don't go through too many built up areas. Big cruisers are not much fun to ride on those roads, and most of us ride for fun, don't we? I suggest that that's why the British, in the main, stick with smaller, better handling bikes.
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As usual, very professionally written! :thumb: :thumb:
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Thanks all.
MotoGeez - I totally hear ya.
Kev
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Dang! That guy on the Lario is a handsome fella.. :smiley: :boozing:
I saw your face on my Google+ feed today.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/m6Zkak/Chuck_Google.png) (http://ibb.co/m6Zkak)
private image sharing (http://imgbb.com/)
Famous again Chuck! First the Ford video, now this!
Nice job with the article Kev! I miss riding the B750...
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I suppose we all get different things out of bikes. Some folks like surfing on a wave of low end torque, and relaxing on a long ride. Some people prefer the feeling of getting everything the bike has to offer, and taking things close to the limit.
For me the attraction of a smaller capacity bike is that it's limits are easier to reach with my level of ability. My son can ride a bike on the track very fast indeed. But I can't. I enjoy a lower capacity bike, because I can wring its neck and try to get every last horse its got to offer transferred to the tarmac. It feels faster than it is, and its exhilarating!
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Across 60+ years of riding, my best 2-wheeled friend of all , is - unquestionably - my current 2004 Guzzi Breva 750 http://tinyurl.com/7cgs96c (http://tinyurl.com/7cgs96c) (2 cyl, 750cc, 410 lbs].
It is the perfect distillation of what is FUN and manageable for an old...
'Geezer
I've only got 53 years but the sentiment is the same. AND, mine is in the fast RED colour. :thumb:
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Everything is relative. Yesterday I finally got all the bits together for my T3/Le Mans replica so I rolled it off the hydraulic bench to take it for a test spin. As I rolled it off I thought "Man this thing is heavy". As I backed it off the bench and then moved it around the garage to get it facing forward I realized how much heavier and harder to move around this bike was than my other bikes. Last year I had two bikes on the road. One was a GB500 Honda and the other was a 500 Triumph Cafe racer weighing in at less than 300 pounds (see attached picture)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kvYBFk/DSCF1757.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kvYBFk)
Compared to those 2 bikes the T3 is a heavy weight. I also have one other bike and it is lighter still. It is a 1987 Honda CBX250 that I have stripped down for track use. It is closer to 200 lbs and goes like crazy despite being just over 20 horsepower. For me, I like B roads with lots of twists. I know for a fact that on a really tight twisty road I will be able to ride my 250 Honda way faster than the 850 T3. I know this for sure because I had a Le Mans 4 on the track for a couple of years, and not counting the straights, I was way faster on the 250 Honda. For a better rider this would not be the case, but for me, and I suspect many of us, the smaller bike would be faster.
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500 Triumph Cafe racer weighing in at less than 300 pounds (see attached picture)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kvYBFk/DSCF1757.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kvYBFk)
Lovely looking Triumph, man.