Small Block Guys - Why?

[mainelytriumph]

Hiya Rolf! Of course, you're always welcome.  I was laying in the hospital recovering from a cancer operation. Brad was there surfing on his phone, and said, "Haven't you been looking for a Monza for a long time?" "Uhh, yeah." "There's one on Ebay in Pennsylvania, looks like it is unmolested, and the price is right. Want me to hit the buy it now?" Knowing full well a guy shouldn't make any decisions with some major drugs floating around in his system, I said, "Uhhh, no." He said, "Are you sure? I'll deliver it..you know as well as I do that they don't come up for sale very often." "Uhhh, let me see it." 
Naturally, he was giving me a little something to cheer me up, and it did. I actually got a little excited. 
It's a hoot, and will *probably* be my last motorcycle purchase.
If you want to go to the Wisconsin rally, I'll bring it up to Brad's place for you to ride..

 
I just might do that. It would give me a chance to bring Amos to the farm.

[Travman]

So how about it, WHY?

Because I want to be like you, Kev. Picked this one up this week and had one wonderful warm day to ride before the cold set back in.

Seriously though, I like medium and small displacement bikes because I have a tendency to twist the throttle and end up going too fast on larger displacement bikes. Most of the roads that we ride are back country roads. If I was on my old Ducati Monster or hopped-up Harley I'd still be doing 90 mph on the straights. It is nice to be able the twist the throttle coming out of a corner, feel the engine pull, and be doing the speed limit on my 750cc Guzzi. An added bonus is that I can enjoy the sights more.

[Kev m]

Because I want to be like you, Kev. Picked this one up this week and had one wonderful warm day to ride before the cold set back in.

Seriously though, I like medium and small displacement bikes because I have a tendency to twist the throttle and end up going too fast on larger displacement bikes. Most of the roads that we ride are back country roads. If I was on my old Ducati Monster or hopped-up Harley I'd still be doing 90 mph on the straights. It is nice to be able the twist the throttle coming out of a corner, feel the engine pull, and be doing the speed limit on my 750cc Guzzi. An added bonus is that I can enjoy the sights more.

Nice!

Not the bike, the part about me. [emoji6] [emoji41] [emoji48]

[Arizona Wayne]

This reminds me of a former Guzzisti who had a 650 Lario and sold it, bought a Ducati 900 Monster when they were new.   Next time I saw him he was on a Yamaha 250 single.     Asked him what happened to his Lario.  Told me about the 900 Monster deal and getting 3 speeding tickets with it real soon.   That's when he downsized to a single from thereafter.   Same reason I got rid of my LeMans IV years ago and ride a 750 Breva now.    But I made the switch before I got a ticket.  A man gots ta know his limitations.

[Huzo]

 Seriously, and NOT to start an argument, but... Why is it perceived as difficult to keep a bike at the desired speed just because it's capable of doing much more. Do you twist the throttle and accept what speed it gives you, or decide what speed you want and give it the appropriate amount of berries ? Is it harder to sit on 120 kph on a Hyabusa than it is on a 750 Breva ? You look at the speedo and hold the throttle where it needs to be. Of course the Suzuki will do it so damn easily that you'll be at that speed much sooner but surely that's a skill that should be fully instilled by the time you're on these things. I should be more mature, but it bugs the crap out of me when I hear.. " Oh, I sold the ZX 14 'cos it was too fast for me"... What a crock ! If you exit a corner and accelerate from 75 k's to 120 k's on your 750, there's nothing stopping you from accelerating at the same rate on your ZX14, you're just using a lot less of it's potential to achieve the same end result. If you're in La La land so much that you're not aware of the speed you've achieved, it might be time to pose another question to yourself, and yes, that applies to me as well.

[Kev m]

Actually Huzo it's a simple concept called "temptation" and it's easy to give into.

Also, as mentioned early in this thread many feel it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast then a fast bike slow. Which is related to the temptation.

Most slower bikes are less isolating from the speed. You can go WOT and run it through the gears and wind up below the ton.

You feel every mph as the bike is likely less smooth, less forgiving, it's being pushed harder and you can sense it.

But on that ZX you're breaking the ton before 3rd. That ZX can do it so effortlessly that it masks the sensation of speed. You look down at the speedo and suddenly realize you're going way faster than you intended because it felt right.


And once you do that you find yourself catching up to faster and faster traffic. You think to yourself well I'll just pass this guy and get some open road and slow down, but you don't.

Or you think to yourself this might be my last chance to pass for a while and it's tight but this bike is capable of warp speed I'll just make one really fast pass. But you get home an hour later thinking crap I was rarely below the ton that ride, I didn't intend to do that.

So no it's not a crock.

[Hymes Inc.]

It's not just temptation. Spirited take offs on my V7 are fun, they feel fast, they feel good. That same good feeling taking off on the GS1100E ending up 40 mph faster in the same time (don't know that for sure, just an example). You just don't have that urgency on fast bikes. Yes I can ride a fast bike slow, but you know it's a fast bike and you want to feel it. I don't recall ever looking down on the GS and saying "oh @#%&! I'm doing 80 mph down the open road" when I thought I was doing 60. 

[Tennmoto]

Zen riding, at just the right speed, not thrill seeking or racing, smell the smells, see the surroundings
Leasure!

[SmithSwede]

This is a no-joke issue--it's The Problem I've wrestled with a lot.  Kev nailed the diagnosis.

Yes, in theory you can ride a fast bike at a slower pace.  But for some folks, including myself, that can be hard to do in practice.

I recently bought a Triumph Street Triple, and after 5 months and 5,000 miles, I'm seriously tempted to sell it for precisely this reason.  It's too smooth and boring to just cruise on it at normal speeds.  In contrast, the Guzzi is perfectly pleasant to just doodle along.

The Triumph engine makes an annoying "sawing" sound on partial steady throttle, unlike the always melodic Guzzi.  But if you twist the Triumph throttle,  its engine makes a delightful intake howl, and the bike leaps forward.  So now it sounds good and isn't boring---a transition that tempts you to repeat that over and over.

And as mentioned above, because you can hit Warp 9 so easily, and are tempted to go there anyway, you wind up using that ability to make too many banzai passes in limited distance scenarios, or impatiently pass a cluster of slower moving cars.

I've had The Problem with an 82 Suzuki GS1100E years ago.  It happened again with a Yamaha FJR.  I more or less deliberately solved The Problem by buying a Guzzi V7 and a little 250 Ninja.   Then I screwed up and brought back The Problem with the Triumph.

Currently looking at a KTM 690 Duke.  Yeah, that's the ticket.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Good point. *Really* fast bikes are boring to ride sedately. I can cane the the Monza, have a good time, and nobody seems to notice.  It's pleasant doodling along, or going as fast as it can. It really *is* more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow..

[kingoffleece]

I sold my Street 3 for exactly that reason.

As for holding any speed-it's entirely in the realm of possibility.  I think, however it sounds, that machines have a certain "spot" where they are comfortable.  The S3, to me, simply didn't feel happy at anything under 100mph.  At a sustained 40-45-55 it felt like it couldn't wait to run out from underneath me.  The bike was always asking for more.  And at times, it got it-and it was a blast.  But that's not the way to run on a public road IMHO.

My Bonnies and V7 seem entirely pleased and happy at 55 to 70.  And I indulge them there most willingly.  Now, it may just be my perception, and I'm out lunch, but the others who responded may feel all or part of this way.

[SaskMick]

The little 750's :)  are no doubt more practical , but the bigger bikes are  MUCH more fun. The fun bit is what it's all about as far as I'm concerned, that's why I have a sidecar outfit, and also a big block Guzzi.

[Huzo]

Yep, there's nothing in those previous posts that I, or anyone else can say is incorrect. However, putting strategies in place so as you don't give into "temptation", to me is something I don't subscribe to personally but I think that's more a function of the type of riding I've drifted into in recent years. When touring these days far from home, I guess I've set myself up to reduce as close to zero as I can, the tension that builds when you feel your bike is being forced to try hard and the thought that something will give up on you starts to worm it's way into your thoughts. I completely agree that the droning sound that comes from a large four like an FJR can become (for me) featureless after a long time. Anything below 900 cc's when loaded starts to show it's limitations at the worst times, fine when there aren't too many adverse factors, but when there are.... Large BMW's are excellent "tools",( but if I wanted a tool to have fun with I'd glance elsewhere), I find they have the personality of a wooden spoon. I must be drawing my satisfaction from a different source and one of those areas is the fact that I'm giving my bike the tools it needs to do the job I'm asking of it. I know it's a bit trite, but I wouldn't jump on a ZX14 Kawasaki rocket ship and remove 1 plug lead so it was harder to forget and be "tempted" to ride too fast just 'cos it felt like an overweight 1050 triple. Although I had one of those for 70,000 and I loved it, so I wonder....Just get the bike that suits the purpose, thing is. We all have a different purpose, what bugs me is when one guy tries to apply his philosophy to someone else with a different agenda.

[Kev m]

 When touring these days far from home, I guess I've set myself up to reduce as close to zero as I can, the tension that builds when you feel your bike is being forced to try hard and the thought that something will give up on you starts to worm it's way into your thoughts.

<snip>

 I know it's a bit trite, but I wouldn't jump on a ZX14 Kawasaki rocket ship and remove 1 plug lead so it was harder to forget and be "tempted" to ride too fast just 'cos it felt like an overweight 1050 triple.

<snip>

 We all have a different purpose, what bugs me is when one guy tries to apply his philosophy to someone else with a different agenda.

Though I understand your temptation to feel the way if a bike seems to be constantly operating at 8/10 or 9/10, I suspect that it's a false impression. I mean, I doubt most of us even operate a smallblock at more than 5/10 most of the time.

I wouldn't pull a plug wire either, it's much easier just to buy the right bike for me in the first place.

I have to call you out on that last line though cause maybe I missed it but neither the concept of this thread or any post I recall reading in it suggested this needs to fit your desires.

The entire OP was asking individuals WHY THEY chose this path, not suggesting it was a mandatory universal path.

[Huzo]

Yeah Kev, not so much on this thread 'cos I reckon most of us are "live and let live" types, but it happens a fair bit in general buggerising around, you'll see and/or hear an insecure type bagging your choice because it doesn't fit his picture of the world.

[Kev m]

Yeah Kev, not so much on this thread 'cos I reckon most of us are "live and let live" types, but it happens a fair bit in general buggerising around, you'll see and/or hear an insecure type bagging your choice because it doesn't fit his picture of the world.

Oh yeah not doubting it. Seems like that's half the conversations motorcyclists have their whole friggin lifetimes (anti-Harley, anti-BMW, anti-JAPanInc., Anti-cruiser, anti-sportbike, anti-whatever.

I still get stuck engaging those types sometimes, but more and more I try to just move on.

[Huzo]

Oh yeah but doubting it. Seems like that's half the conversations motorcyclists have their whole friggin lifetimes (anti-Harley, anti-BMW, anti-JAPanInc., Anti-cruiser, anti-sportbike, anti-whatever.

I still get stuck engaging those types sometimes, but more and more I try to just move on.

Most of it is a pissing contest !

[Muzz]

Is it harder to sit on 120 kph on a Hyabusa than it is on a 750 Breva ? You look at the speedo and hold the throttle where it needs to be.

Funny you should mention this Huzo.

My Breva is in mph, 60mph = 4000rpm. so far so good. On a longer trip I must confess that (in fact most of the time) I use the the rev counter as my speedo. The dial on the speedo is just so darn busy with all the mph markings on the outside and kmh on the inside. At the 4000 the Breva is starting to sing, but it LOVES 5000 rpm. I'm sure I have the throttle setting the same but the rev counter says otherwise.   5000rpm and 75mph without doing anything. As I am on the superannuation these days I can't afford  so I usually find a car that is going (just) above the correct speed to keep mine in check. As soon as a hill comes in to view then I will pass until I find the next car to follow.

[Huzo]

Funny you should mention this Huzo.

My Breva is in mph, 60mph = 4000rpm. so far so good. On a longer trip I must confess that (in fact most of the time) I use the the rev counter as my speedo. The dial on the speedo is just so darn busy with all the mph markings on the outside and kmh on the inside. At the 4000 the Breva is starting to sing, but it LOVES 5000 rpm. I'm sure I have the throttle setting the same but the rev counter says otherwise.   5000rpm and 75mph without doing anything. As I am on the superannuation these days I can't afford  so I usually find a car that is going (just) above the correct speed to keep mine in check. As soon as a hill comes in to view then I will pass until I find the next car to follow.

If I lived in heaven like you do Muzz, I'd piss the bike off and just walk around looking at the place !!! But seriously, I understand your feeling here. My Norge sounds velvety smooth with a beautiful "crack" as it were from the Staintune at 5-6,000 rpm but I might as well wipe my arse with my licence if I give in to that...

[RANDM]

I think this line of thought is becoming more important to me
as well - the just how much bike do I need question.

I see a lot of Classics at a mates Workshop the biggest grin
I've had recently was when he asked me to be ballast so he
could test ride an old BSA M21 Outfit (600cc S/Valve) he'd
tuned and checked for a Tasmanian trip. We only hit around
30 mph max but it felt like 60! Both of us were grinning like
fools and chuckling into our beards.

Never really felt the need to be the fastest kid on the block but
I do like good suspension, handling and brakes - but how good?

One way I think about it to myself is that Modern bikes are like
a CNC Machine - Ultimate precision that you only have to hit a
button to operate, stick a bit of raw wood in one end and a House
Comes out the other.

Whereas a classic/standard is more like a Hand Tool - precision
Only comes with practise and your own expertise, and there is
a lot of satisfaction to be had in developing that expertise.

Don't want to be a bump on a log that does everything better
than I can, But finding a bike with the right balance of attributes
isn't easy is it?

Maurie.

[Darren Williams]

I love these big bike, little bike, high power, low power, slow bike fast verses fast bike slow conversations. Personally I have more than one bike, from a 250 single to a 1300 inline four.  They all have their purpose.  I find riding my WR250X supermoto is really fun in tight curves and bombing around town. It will run 70 no problem but that does get tiring if done for very long. It is the bike most likely to get me a performance award because it is made to wheelie and jump curbs and such, things folks consider hooligan riding and draws a lot of attention. My FJR has a power windshield, electronic cruise control, gobs of power and good range. It's best at long distance traveling, but it is also my favorite commuter bike, and I enjoy it in the Ozarks as well as any of my other bikes. Of course where I live, I can't get anywhere interesting without burning a couple hours on the interstate. The other bikes, 500, 750, 900, 1200, all fit between and have their purpose.  My wife has ridden our Honda CB500X in about 15 states heavily loaded when traveling. She does wish it had more power for passing or higher speed runs (West Texas has 85mph speed limits here most are running 90+) without feeling like she is ringing it out too much. But it has done just fine. Has about the same amount of power as her Breva 750, but she thinks it handles tight curves better.

Bottom line for me is I need more than just a hammer or a screw driver in my tool box, just as I need several different types of bikes.  If I could only have one, right now it would probably be an FJ09. My son just bought a new one and that bike has a lot of positives. About 875cc and well under 500 lbs, good suspension, comfortable and can get done the road quite quickly.

I think it really comes down to how each person intends to use the bike and what they are comfortable on. Of course around here, in Dusty's nephew's town, most are riding big Harley butt jewelry. : )

[Huzo]

Yeah nothing wrong with living life at a slower pace once in a while on a beautiful Autumn (fall) day on your Belt Drive Parrafin burning, 1908 Excelsior Supreme Guzunthapede @ 25.4 mph... As long as you know your street legal MGS 01 Guzzi is in the shed with a CLEAN cloth over it for this afternoon !

[tazio]

Kev, this is all dem big block heads need to know..

[Huzo]

 :bike-037:d

Kev, this is all dem big block heads need to know..

Doubtless you're only joking Tazio, but did you read post #105 ?

[redhawk47]

Wrong question, IMO.  The real question is "What is it about Guzzi that doesn't attract the young'uns?

Part of the issue is that "old riders" like them.

Honda designed the Element for the young outdoor types and IMHO did a good job. I would have bought one when I was 30 - if they were available then. BUT, the Element caught the attention of the older outdoors type (like me) and they bought them. So then the "young'uns" would not be caught dead in them.

BMW was in the same demographic situation as Moto Guzzi but they seem to be having some success in attracting younger riders with their sport bikes and R9T.

[tazio]

Doubtless you're only joking Tazio, but did you read post #105 ?

Yep and yep

[redhawk47]

After reading this whole thread I went back and read the OP. Boy, how topics wander.

That said, I am interest in participating in your survey.
When I got back into motorcycling I was into dual sports and touring. Started on an KLR, and moved "up" to a KTM 950 and then a 800GS. A 25 mile ride on a friend's Stelvio brought me into the Moto Guzzi fan club. I bought a Stelvio but, after loving it for two years and 16,000 miles I finally accepted the fact that it was too big for me. I like to ride alone, and on dirt roads. I could not pick it up by myself. So I traded it in on a V7II Stone, and I could not be happier. I've added racks, bags, windshield and more. Dual sport tires are coming when the OEMs are worn out.

But also, in the last year and a half, I added two smaller bikes to the stable: a CSC RX3 - a 250cc adventure touring bike with full kit, and a CSC TT250 - a 230cc dual sport. They are both great fun.

I don't know if it is illusion or fact, but I feel that I ride these three bikes faster in the twisties than I did on any of my previous bikes. It is more fun to ride a slow bike fast!

[Huzo]

After reading this whole thread I went back and read the OP. Boy, how topics wander

I don't know if it is illusion or fact, but I feel that I ride these three bikes faster in the twisties than I did on any of my previous bikes. It is more fun to ride a slow bike fast!

Yeah, makes you "feel" fast.

[Kev m]

Thanks for the testimonials, watch this space tomorrow.

[Huzo]

Thanks for the testimonials, watch this space tomorrow.

Just a small one on the topic of giving in to the temptations of a large bike. By the time you're at our level of experience, YOU should be commanding the bike, and if it sucks you in, then you still own your own behaviour. Decide what performance you want and MAKE IT operate at that level, not where it "feels happy".