Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Muley on August 15, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
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This will be my last post on WG. I intend to wean myself from the computer altogether. I am, quite frankly, fed up with our computer society. The first to go will be e-mail and the internet. More difficult will be adapting, or perhaps re-adapting, to not having the tools at my disposal which I've used in my business for around twenty years. My contracts, timber inventory programs, gps mapping ability, word processed letters, invoicing, etc. will all be phased out somewhat slowly while I move back towards use of snail mail, hand drawn maps, typewritten correspondence, a copy machine, and banking by mail. I won't have fax service at home but might occasionally go to a FedEx or similar if the need is great. My digital pictures will be sorted and mostly deleted, maybe having a select few printed on real paper. Online banking will be tough to give up, but I can still balance a checkbook most of the time.
Why am I doing this? I am thoroughly frustrated with the massive amount of time I spend in front of this screen, the downtime when my computer refuses to work properly, the ease of ordering things I really don't need and can't afford, watching children with their heads buried in smart phones oblivious to anything around them, ditto for all ages - folks who won't even look up long enough to have a conversation at a dinner table, people looking at smart phones at a theater (I sit near the back and see all of this). This is a disease, and I hope it's curable. Like heartworm treatments for our dog buddies, this will probably be painful but worth it in the end.
I could rant forever, but I'm sure you get the gist.
Thanks to all of you for the friendship, technical advice, humor, wit, picture sharing, storytelling, jokes, etc. I have personally met many on this forum and hope to see you again someday. Please look me up if you're ever near the exact center of Georgia. We have plenty of room here.
Good bye, good luck, and ride safe!
Muley on here, but you can call me Russ from now on.
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That's sad Russ, but I think I can understand what you mean. Best of luck with everything you do, and maybe I'll hear from you again one way or another.
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I feel your pain, Russ.. I see it, too. We are raising a generation of idiots who's only knowledge is "Hey, Google."
I am quite cognizant of the problem, but not willing to make a clean break. I *do* make it a point to not be looking at a phone all the time.. many times I don't know where it is.. which is horrifying to a couple of kids that work for me. <shrug>
Best of luck! It's been a pleasure to know you, sir.
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Well, you have to do what you need to. There are so many great people this device has given me the pleasure of meeting, including you Russ. Hopefully I'll see you somewhere along the line.
John Henry
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Sorry to see you go, Muley but good health, good luck and Happy Trails :grin:
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Russ, I still fondly remember the coldbutt ride to the top of Alabama (Cheaha Mts-Bill,Wayne..)
I was on my '97 Sport I (Mellow-Yellow).
The Pea Gravel gave me fits, but you and the boys weren't fazed by it!!
Gonna miss you here...
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I am moved to make a comment, which I seldom do, and that is BRAVO for a very good decision.
Wes
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Russ, been a slice! Nothing wrong w/being analog, not at all. If you have a craving you could go to library, take a calendar to mark down the rally dates for the year. You don't need a puter to go to some rallys. Keep the EV rolling along. Ride Safe
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Don't know if your still there Russ but I feel your pain. There is entirely too much noise in the modern world, gotta get away from it sometimes.
Tail Winds and Rain Bows.
Good Luck.
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Russ, every sword has two edges, and if you feel you are better off laying this sword down I respect your choice.
There are many, many people I know and respect, most of who I call at least a friend, whom I would never have met without the Internet and communities like this one that exist because of what the Internet has allowed people to create. I do have to create Internet / real-life balance, just as I have to create a balance between work life and personal life. It's not always easy, but the return on every investment depends on both the original input and ongoing management of the investment.
I hope your choice results in the things that you find most rewarding. I'll be working to make sure my own choices do the same. If we both are lucky, those choices will reward not only ourselves but our friends, family and community as we contribute back to them.
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Side B.
Turn the record over.
Computers made my personal life and business life. I know they can be distracting, but they can also serve. YOU, not the machine, are responsible for the controls.
I have hosted motorcyclists from all over the world in my home.
I have traveled across the world and stayed in their homes and learned their culture and diverse political attitudes.
I have learned to speak a second language reasonably well.
I have traced my personal ancestry as far back as paper recording would allow.
YMMV.
I have no intention of going back to a pre-computer existence.
I never would have met Pete Roper (maybe extract that last line).
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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I once stayed away from the wildguzzi 5 years. hope hes ok. i get tired of social media also.
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I only went halfway there in the first place ....
I have this iMac desktop, and that's pretty much all. I don't have a cell phone, a smart phone, or GPS. In 2016, I went cold turkey off WG for six months just to be sure I could do it - turns out I can if I want to, so I'm not too worried about it.
I see the same thing you do. Like going to Atlantic City and seeing pathetic zombies just automatically pulling the handle of a slot machine for hours on end, or seeing a wino laying under a bridge, living for his bottle, I see addicted people every day on smart phones and social media, who will literally get the shakes and start crying if they lose or break their phone.
Yes, I know it's just a tool, and yes I know I'm the one "in control", but I know exactly what you mean when you look around and see millions of people "out of control" and unable to imagine a world like in 1991; they literally believe they would die if they had to "go back".
I can fully understand not wanting to be part of that game. People went to Guzzi rallies for many years before the Internet, and they can do it again!
So good luck with it - if you want to talk or write for any reason, I'm still "in the book!"
Lannis
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Russ , if it's something I said I take it back :shocked: :grin:
I'm really am not sure WG fits into the social media world . So many of us actually know each other that no one really gets away with spouting nonsense or exaggerations .
"I had one of those 19 and 63 BMW White Widows that was so fast the Gubmint outlawed them"
"Yeah , sure you did there Bunky" :laugh:
Dusty
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Wish you the best Russ. Have enjoyed many of your posts. Will miss your input.
GliderJohn
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I understand completely. I got rid of facebook, and several websites I used to frequent. I applaud your voyage back to simplicity, and really wish I could join you.
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I'd say goodbye but you're never going to read this.
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I'd say goodbye but you're never going to read this.
It was only 3 hours ago that he posted, I doubt if he's smashed his computer and burned his modem yet.
Probably will wait until tomorrow morning!
Lannis
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Hope you read this.
In this day and age, what used to be a thumb through the phone book, is all on the internet. My phone co. phone book is a 1/4 of the size I remember before internet.
Many businesses like banks, investments, insurance, ect. like to work with email rather than slow mail.
I do understand the frustration, I do understand what your saying. But..
Give it a day or two before dumping your internet connection. Or at the very least, have a Netzero free dialup account, provided they still do that.
Good luck with your choice!!!
Goodby (or not),
Tom
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Russ,
What the kids do is not your problem.
That you spend too much time at the computer "diddling" is something you can modulate. Do your banking etc and leave.
It's like drinking. Know when to walk away.
You'll be back. :thumb:
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Russ, I for one will miss your contributions.
All the very best for all you intend to do in your future.
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Russ
I understand your desire to de-link. But I sure hope you clients are okay with hand-bombed maps (which I actually prefer, as they actually take some skill to produce) instead of digitally derived ones, or can afford to wait for hand calculated forest inventories instead of computer crunched ones. Using a compass and tight chain can be as accurate as a GPS derived traverse, but takes so much more time and money to do correctly. Good on you if you succeed, though.
John D.
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If something doesn't serve you anymore, you should put it aside. I dropped all the news sources and social media stuff for the same reason that you are retreating from the digital world. However, there is a great deal left that can make your life better. You named several: online banking, email, references...all useful and economical to access. Careful that you don't throw out the baby with the bath water...
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Its just a tool, use it or don't. Its not an umbilical cord, although I see your point. next I suppose Ill see you at a rendezvous with a flintlock and a bunch of knives. Ill be the one with two tomahawks looking like I came in from 1830 :smiley:
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Charge many windmills lately? Good luck?
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I own/run a small business. I wish you the best BUT, I have no idea how I could stay in business without answering our clients email questions, doing invoicing on the computer, working with GPS Map software/google maps etc. My customers would quit our services in a heartbeat. Homeland Security, DOT, other Government agencies mandate that we use certain software programs etc, so I have no idea how we would stay in business.
We use computers and powerpoint presentations, videos etc. Man....I have no idea how I could make it anymore without technology.
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this thread needs a pic, Thanks for the best Muley dog ever!
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Pink/i-VfwnDQN/0/c705368d/M/IMG_0448_zps47e8bfe3-M.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Pink/i-VfwnDQN/A)
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What will you do with all your money if you don't throw it at modern :laugh: :grin: technology? Luddite!
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Russ,
It's like drinking. Know when to walk away.
It's like drinking, but not in the sense you mean. Some people can walk away from drinking without severe mental and physical consequences. Some cannot .... And I believe it's getting to be the same with computer technology.
Lannis
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I feel your pain, Russ.. I see it, too. We are raising a generation of idiots who's only knowledge is "Hey, Google."
It's often worse... some under 30 want an answer so quick that they won't even bother to research it before asking. My google-foo is WAY better than the people who grew up with it... The key to using technology efficiently is to understand how it works.
Everything in moderation. I understand that the computer can be a major time suck, but it does do things much quicker in a lot of cases. The user chooses how much or how little to integrate it. Going back to typed letters? Yea, no thanks.
I find it amazing that people will choose to select omission over self-control. I was lucky enough not to have an addictive personality. I can only imagine what that must be like to control.
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I wish the gentleman well.
While working for fourteen public libraries I regularly hear a theme of 'technology is replacing books and ruining the library experience'. We need to accept that we are in a new era of information driven commerce and the only way out is to abandon this economic structure. Consequences may vary.
To paraphrase many of these posts: it's too late to jump back into the aircraft; now we need to decide if we use a parachute to control the event. Around 1991 I had a Motorola analogue cell phone and an Acer laptop. Still use the same kind of tools, they are just sharper now.
Moderation is an appropriate word in my mind.
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Russ......if your still out there, could you post your pigeon coup coordinates so people can keep in touch with you. :boozing: :boozing: :laugh: If your ever in SC, take a flare gun with you and send up a signal when you get close to Columbia. :thumb: :cool:
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All the best, I've often considered a break as well but I'm not quite there yet.
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It was only 3 hours ago that he posted, I doubt if he's smashed his computer and burned his modem yet.
Probably will wait until tomorrow morning!
Lannis
well, I took him literally, why didn't you?
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All the best, I've often considered a break as well but I'm not quite there yet.
Almost impossible to do if you've got a "public job" (as the farmers used to say), that is, a job with a boss and customers.
I wouldn't own a Space Shuttle myself, but if my job was working on it and flying on it, why, I'd be doing exactly that. And when I was a project manager for a big energy services company, I was just as quick on a Blackberry as anyone, matter of fact, when I texted someone, I used full words and phrases, not "w8tng 4 u @ termnl C", I answered Emails that came in from foreign partners at 0430, and could whip up a Powerpoint and write macros in Excel in the airport for a customer meeting in a minute.
But being retired, I don't have to use that stuff any more; no way is the cost of a smart phone worth what little I'd get out of it PERSONALLY, and I know what they can do.
So if Muley/Russ can handle the business end on paper, then good on 'im. I know lots of one-person businesses that have a year's backlog of work and never set foot in a computer or have a website ....
Lannis
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Russ,
Enjoy!!!
Elisha
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I remember my frustration with the computer age when all my pals kept telling me to go look up something at "so and so" dot com. Dusty and I share a joke about it. I had to be dragged into the digital age. My real problem with the digital age is that now everyone can look up prices of things for sale nation (world) wide, and getting bargains on motorcycles and parts is getting more rare. Even if Granny might sell that Eldo for 300 bucks, one of the grandkids will make sure that ain't gonna happen. But, if I were not absorbed looking at a screen, I would be pouring over maps, geneaology charts, novels, tech manuals, etc. It's the curse of being curious. I can cram more damn data into my brain via electrons. I would never have the guts to cut the cord. Best of luck, sir!
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'I got yer dotcom right here" :grin:
Shorty and I both had to be drug kicking AND screaming into 1998 , and now it's 2017 :shocked:
Dusty
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I was an early adopter. My first programming classes were on a Univac, for heavinsake. When I first saw a computer hooked to a milling machine, the light came on.. and I've made my living with computers since the 80s. They are a wonderful "tool."
Just the same, when they are "toys" I draw the line.
Except for WildGuzzi, of course..<whistling>
:wink:
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I was an early adopter. My first programming classes were on a Univac, for heavinsake.
The U of MD had an 1106 and an 1108 when I was in engineering school there. We put our programs on punch cards and handed the decks to the counter guy who ran them and handed you the cards back, along with the paper output. I don't miss that procedure much, but it was educational to go through it.
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The U of MD had an 1106 and an 1108 when I was in engineering school there. We put our programs on punch cards and handed the decks to the counter guy who ran them and handed you the cards back, along with the paper output. I don't miss that procedure much, but it was educational to go through it.
Yep, 16K and it would fill a room at GM tech. :smiley:
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I remember first year of college (forestry) we took Fortran computer programming. I can't believe I ever passed that course.
JD
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I remember first year of college (forestry) we took Fortran computer programming. I can't believe I ever passed that course.
JD
Yeah Fortran and punch cards - got one computer run per stack a day at Ohio State...
Mark
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Looks like I'm going to have to find my collection of old slide rules for a show-and-tell session. :grin: :laugh:
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"Looks like I'm going to have to find my collection of old slide rules for a show-and-tell session." :grin: :laugh:
Ha!
Got a couple of those! And an Abacus as well.
No batteries required!
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You've prescribed AMPUTATION where antibiotics will do.
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Say it ain't so!
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I remember first year of college (forestry) we took Fortran computer programming. I can't believe I ever passed that course.
JD
Fortran? WATFOR? :tongue:
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Fortran? WATFOR? :tongue:
Gotran, too. Apparently that was the engineering language of the time. <shrug> What did I know? I was just a kid.
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Fortran? WATFOR? :tongue:
And WATFIV.
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After spending 10 minutes of time I will never get back reading these comments, I think I am addicted, but I can quit at any time.
We cut the cable t.v. this week. I was surprised at how many people told me they did the same thing recently without bringing it up that I had done the same. Over priced and a huge waste of time to try and watch t.v. to rationalize the cost. Antenna t.v. has over 50 choices for free.
I spend about 1 hour a day on work and home business and 1/2 hour on entertainment. I like the research and the easy access to so much information. As a past manufacturing research engineer, information is power and money.
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Fair winds and calm seas, Russ.
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Information overload. I'm sure now that humans can be addicted to smart phones.
Like many comments here, I have met people from all over the world via the internet. I keep track of people and places far away, via the internet.
I would never want to go back to pre-smart phone, pre-internet days. I really love having the world and its information at my fingertips.
It is, though, way too easy to just aimlessly scroll the phone to satisfy whatever the information addiction is in our brains.
I've been working towards spending less time on the computer and the smart phone over the past couple years. Unfortunately, my workday includes eight hours of computer usage.
Going riding and camping in places with no phone or internet access is refreshing and exhilarating. But, admittedly, so is the sound of the phone updating when I get back into service range.
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FOrTRAN?
heck, I had trouble programing with BASIC.
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Rocker sez..
I would never want to go back to pre-smart phone, pre-internet days. I really love having the world and its information at my fingertips.
It is, though, way too easy to just aimlessly scroll the phone to satisfy whatever the information addiction is in our brains.
and I totally agree. The information in the Library of Alexandria is at our fingertips.
but comma.
I have two kids that work for me part time.. I don't pay them, Ed the Rocket Scientist does that.. and one is totally addicted to a phone. The other just looks at it a lot.
BIL Harley Bob and Dorcia's sister Carol came over for dinner tonight, and I almost took a picture. I was making fajitas, Dorcia was making Margaritas, and they were looking at their phones constantly. :rolleyes:
Nice visit..
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I worked with univacs, the big IBMs and Sperry/Rand, among others. We opened a door and walked inside when they needed work. We got upscale with a Winchester drive the size of a washing machine. Hard coded routines and drives with breadboards. I was the guy who collected the punch cards and loaded them in the go-drawers. Then I set the tape and drove them through. When you got that utility bill with the decimal misplaced, I might have had something to do with it.
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Rocker sez..
and I totally agree. The information in the Library of Alexandria is at our fingertips.
but comma.
I have two kids that work for me part time.. I don't pay them, Ed the Rocket Scientist does that.. and one is totally addicted to a phone. The other just looks at it a lot.
BIL Harley Bob and Dorcia's sister Carol came over for dinner tonight, and I almost took a picture. I was making fajitas, Dorcia was making Margaritas, and they were looking at their phones constantly. :rolleyes:
Nice visit..
I suspect that we're getting ready to have an outbreak of mental illness in this country, the like of which has never been seen before ... My in-laws (brother-in-law, his wife, and 4 kids) drove 700 miles to stay at our house for two nights, and we probably didn't get to say 200 words to them. Every second was spent with their heads down in their phones and iPads. Spooky.
We've all seen it. To say "It's just a tool" and "Just set it down if it bothers you" is ignoring the reality of what we're seeing.
If Muley considers computers an attack of malaria or the flu, then an antibiotic solution may be right.
But if he considers it gangrene (and I think he does, and it's hard to refute), then an amputation is entirely appropriate.
Lannis
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I went to work for Friden, Inc, a company based out of San Leandro CA, in 1969. I sold their billing /accounting products, known as Flexowriters and Computypers. These were what was known as 'source date recorders.' In other words, our products, while producing necessary printed documents such as purchase orders and invoices, created punch paper tape that could be used as input into larger computer systems. It was early office automation.
In actuality, these machines were very heavy typewriters that could read paper tape, edge-punched cards, and IBM tab cards. They could output tape, and cards. And they could calculate ..... addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. Sounds pretty mundane today, but back then, one machine and one operator could do the work of 2,3,4 routine office workers.
Fun stuff, nearly 50 years ago!!
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I went to work for Friden, Inc, a company based out of San Leandro CA, in 1969. I sold their billing /accounting products, known as Flexowriters and Computypers. These were what was known as 'source date recorders.' In other words, our products, while producing necessary printed documents such as purchase orders and invoices, created punch paper tape that could be used as input into larger computer systems. It was early office automation.
In actuality, these machines were very heavy typewriters that could read paper tape, edge-punched cards, and IBM tab cards. They could output tape, and cards. And they could calculate ..... addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. Sounds pretty mundane today, but back then, one machine and one operator could do the work of 2,3,4 routine office workers.
Fun stuff, nearly 50 years ago!!
In 1972, those were still high technology. Our IBM 1130 FORTRAN lab had a row of IBM 029 and 026 card punch machines. DEC was coming out with LINCtapes for their PDP-8s, big stuff.
And a student could buy a four function HP or TI hand calculator .... for about $190!
Tell kids that today, and will they believe you?
Lannis
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I worked at Univac/Sperry/Unisys from 1981-2007, fortran, MASM, and any *nix you can think of pretty much.
1100/60, 1100/70, 1100/80, and a slew of 2200's.
Finally volunteered for a layoff when they got to 3 per year, too stressful and my *nix skills were transferable unlike many who only worked on the mainframes.
Would be tough stopping cold turkey at this point.
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Extrapolation leads me to believe the rapture is nigh-but I don't know which crowd will be left behind and who will be in Paradise.
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Extrapolation leads me to believe the rapture is nigh-but I don't know which crowd will be left behind and who will be in Paradise.
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means ..... :thewife: :violent1: :grin:
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Sounds appropriate to me.. <scratching head>
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I went to work for Friden, Inc, a company based out of San Leandro CA, in 1969.
Fun stuff, nearly 50 years ago!!
We had a Friden and an SCM calculator in our computer lab in high school. During lunch break we raced them by writing programs to do things like calculate prime numbers. Generally the SCM took about half as long as the Friden to do the same job. I'm not knocking Friden, the SCM was probably just a newer model. For "real" programming we punched BASIC on 1" paper tape, and fed that into one of the teletypes that was linked to the county's computer via an audio coupled modem. This was 1973-1975.
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You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means ..... :thewife: :violent1: :grin:
I use all of those words frequently. I am sure I know what they mean to me.
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I suspect that we're getting ready to have an outbreak of mental illness in this country, the like of which has never been seen before ... My in-laws (brother-in-law, his wife, and 4 kids) drove 700 miles to stay at our house for two nights, and we probably didn't get to say 200 words to them. Every second was spent with their heads down in their phones and iPads. Spooky.
We've all seen it. To say "It's just a tool" and "Just set it down if it bothers you" is ignoring the reality of what we're seeing.
If Muley considers computers an attack of malaria or the flu, then an antibiotic solution may be right.
But if he considers it gangrene (and I think he does, and it's hard to refute), then an amputation is entirely appropriate.
Lannis
To consider access to information gangrenous is a misdiagnosis - I looked again at what he said...
Why am I doing this?
a) I am thoroughly frustrated with the massive amount of time I spend in front of this screen...
Understandable but not difficult to remedy!
b) the downtime when my computer refuses to work properly...
??? It's way better than it's ever been, I've done NO repairs to this six year old desktop or its twin, just RAM upgrades.
c) the ease of ordering things I really don't need and can't afford...
Don't do it! There are going to be things you DO need & can't afford NOT to have access to.
d) watching children with their heads buried in smart phones oblivious to anything around them, ditto for all ages...
e) folks who won't even look up long enough to have a conversation at a dinner table, people looking at smart phones at a theater (I sit near the back and see all of this)...
Don't be like them! Your withdrawal won't change this.
This is a disease, and I hope it's curable. Like heartworm treatments for our dog buddies, this will probably be painful but worth it in the end.
In the last 3 weeks my family pulled 5 good dogs just hours away from being killed, they'll get new homes, made possible b/c of co-ordination & communication via the net.
Access to good medical information is getting better & better. Surviving is often the difference between you or your spouse being your own best advocate.
Recognize the good & bad - the good is too important to throw out with the bad.
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Recognize the good & bad - the good is too important to throw out with the bad.
[/color]
I think our respective opinions of what is "Good", and whether it is "good" enough to warrant putting up with the "bad", is the real issue. To Muley to a great degree, to me and many others to a lesser degree, the "good" of making your life and mental health dependent on computer systems and social media is not worth the downside .... It's not hard to understand.
Lannis
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But.. Randown also said this..
Access to good medical information is getting better & better. Surviving is often the difference between you or your spouse being your own best advocate.
Which is true. BTDT. :smiley:
Believe me, I'm no fan of phone addicts. They generally try to kill me several times a trip. Truckers are getting terrible with running off the road. When we went to Pennsylvania this spring, we couldn't count the distracted semis on the turnpike.
Single vehicle fatalities are up. A lot.
That said, the computer revolution is here to stay, and there are many good things about it. If a person "can't" moderate their usage, maybe they "should" quit cold turkey. <shrug> Other addicts have to do it that way.
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But.. Randown also said this (about access to medical information)..Which is true. BTDT. :smiley:
But ... I don't use the internet to look up "medical information", any more than I would use it for anything else my life depended upon. I have a "doctor", several of them, in fact. If my doctor needs to use it in order to learn the latest treatments or medications, that's good. I don't, however, see how "social media", FB, and all the rest of the things that kill 10,000 people a year on the road have anything to do with that?
Lannis
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The mere presence of a smartphone is enstupidating...
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170623133039.htm (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170623133039.htm)
Perhaps unlearning a fast cursive scribble wasn't such a good idea, either...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-learning-secret-don-t-take-notes-with-a-laptop/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-learning-secret-don-t-take-notes-with-a-laptop/)
I see everything already mentioned with my children and step-children, along with a truly frightening inability to look at a mechanical device and figure out how it might work in order to fix it. (Some of them, to be fair, mine less than the step-kids, thank you, but almost all of their friends.) So many of them suffer from so deep a lack of knowledge about how the simplest things work. And I do mean simple - what the walls in the house are made of and how it's attached; what kind of mechanism might be inside the car door to make it go up and down. If it can't be fixed by taking the battery out for a moment, they are helpless. Even worse, they don't consider it important.
one does what one must,
C
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BIL Harley Bob and Dorcia's sister Carol came over for dinner tonight, and I almost took a picture. I was making fajitas, Dorcia was making Margaritas, and they were looking at their phones constantly. :rolleyes:
Nice visit..
Try putting a basket on the table by the front door. Label it "Phones/Tablets". Next time they come over, require they deposit the phones in the basket before coming on in for dinner!
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The mere presence of a smartphone is enstupidating...
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170623133039.htm (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170623133039.htm)
Perhaps unlearning a fast cursive scribble wasn't such a good idea, either...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-learning-secret-don-t-take-notes-with-a-laptop/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-learning-secret-don-t-take-notes-with-a-laptop/)
I see everything already mentioned with my children and step-children, along with a truly frightening inability to look at a mechanical device and figure out how it might work in order to fix it. (Some of them, to be fair, mine less than the step-kids, thank you, but almost all of their friends.) So many of them suffer from so deep a lack of knowledge about how the simplest things work. And I do mean simple - what the walls in the house are made of and how it's attached; what kind of mechanism might be inside the car door to make it go up and down. If it can't be fixed by taking the battery out for a moment, they are helpless. Even worse, they don't consider it important.
one does what one must,
C
And in a similiar vein, took my 5 Y.O.grandson to KFC. He was finishing his chicken leg when he made an amazing discovery. "Hey what is this inside the chicken?" "It's a bone, son." "Cool! Can I have it? I want to take it home!" And yes, he has his own devices and a FB account... :embarrassed: :grin:
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Try putting a basket on the table by the front door. Label it "Phones/Tablets". Next time they come over, require they deposit the phones in the basket before coming on in for dinner!
I've got a better solution. I'm not inviting anyone to my house that would NEED a basket to remind them about simple civility and good manners ... any more than I would invite anyone who drains a pocket flask or snorts a line of coke 3 minutes after they come into my house. It's the same thing.
Lannis
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We not only had rooms full of 029's, we had a "verify" room where all the cards went to be punched a second time full of 129's! The cardpunchers could go through a carton of T10 cards at about 40/min with no mistakes. The really good ones went much faster. :drool: If you dropped a load of cards or source paper going between those two rooms and they got out of order, god save the queen! :shocked:
Any mainframers remember the GE series 6? It's still in use at the wastewater treatment plant in Sitka. The chemicals in the air are so bad in the building that PCs rot and crumble in a year or two. The GE is still working all the valves, gates, and lift pumps in town. I used to have to find and resolder the corroded circuit board joints. It was not only tedious, it smelled really bad.
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Quote from: Lannis on August 15, 2017, 10:35:45 PM
It was only 3 hours ago that he posted, I doubt if he's smashed his computer and burned his modem yet.
Probably will wait until tomorrow morning!
Lannis
___________________ ___________
well, I took him literally, why didn't you?
Well, maybe I should have. Looks like he logged off 10 seconds after his last post and hasn't looked in since ... I'd be a LITTLE curious but I think "cold turkey" means a hard-frozen Butterball to our Russ ... !
Lannis
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cam sez
Even worse, they don't consider it important.
That's my *real* gripe. "If for some obsure reason I need to know what is behind the wall, I can ask google."
I mentioned on another thread that I have a 21 year old kid running my cnc. I had the Monza up on the lift in the shop, doing an annual inspection and adjusting the valves. He came over, looked at the valve springs, and said, "are those the pistons? I've heard of them."
:shocked:
He's *not* my employee, and wouldn't be, but Ed the Rocket Scientist likes him. Not that he's a bad kid, I *like* him. Unlike many kids that have no social skills from phone use he is personable, and *not* stupid, but clueless about machinery.
Fortunately, there is another kid that is a gearhead. There is hope yet. :thumb:
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The mere presence of a smartphone is enstupidating...
[snipity]
I see everything already mentioned with my children and step-children, along with a truly frightening inability to look at a mechanical device and figure out how it might work in order to fix it. (Some of them, to be fair, mine less than the step-kids, thank you, but almost all of their friends.) So many of them suffer from so deep a lack of knowledge about how the simplest things work. And I do mean simple - what the walls in the house are made of and how it's attached; what kind of mechanism might be inside the car door to make it go up and down. If it can't be fixed by taking the battery out for a moment, they are helpless. Even worse, they don't consider it important.
one does what one must,
C
A lot of people can't grasp the importance of understanding those basic concepts. I recently tried to explain to a self-proclaimed mechanic that
" . . .a career wrench doesn't get too tied up in makes and models. Makes and models come and go. with more new stuff pouring in every year, so it doesn't makes sense to become too model-focused. A career mechanic gets familiar with fuel systems, electrical systems, suspensions, engine design and theory, etc. Once he knows those things and has the shop book for the model specifics, the equipment itself is just a detail. Do it enough and everything 'similar', like bikes or automobiles, start looking the same. And when you can generalize troubleshooting principles, everything looks the same -- computers, lawn mowers, bikes, boats . . . That's how I was able to build that trike from scratch -- understanding the systems that compose a vehicle and the tools, techniques, and components required to integrate them."
Here's what he replied:
"You are so full of shit I find it amazing. I am not some wannabe mechanic that will fall for your BS. . . . . Having to deal with the differences in design, construction, for you to claim there is no difference is BULLSHIT !! Claiming such just proves your ignorance on the subject."
This fella was older than I am, but those genetics and that mindset gets passed on. It makes me sad for the generation coming along. If it isn't happening on reality tv, it isn't happening for them. What happens to a technologically dependent society when understanding the technologies is BS?
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It makes me sad for the generation coming along. If it isn't happening on reality tv, it isn't happening for them. What happens to a technologically dependent society when understanding the technologies is BS?
Then, the people who DO understand the technology, and the people who CAN interact with other humans (including leading them) without using their thumbs and a picture of their gnocchi ... they'll be the ones in charge.
We're already preparing our grandchildren for that. Their lives will include hunting, fishing, cooking, working with Grandpa on the bikes, riding, and a lot of other neat stuff, and will NOT include their own phones and FB accounts ... As Cam says, if they get "Enstupidated", it's our fault, not the culture's or the world's fault.
Lannis
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"Enstupidated"
Good one, Cam. That needs to go in the Webster's. :smiley: :boozing:
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I'm with Lannis (horrors!). There will always be folks who rise above fashion and the easiest path. All you must do to realize that humans are the same through history is read a little Mark Twain or Will Rogers (or Socrates, for that matter). The bad behaviors and outrageous acts of the past would be right at home in modern headlines. We've created some wondrous machines, but remain true to our human tendencies. It's like I told my kids: "Be thankful for the ignorant, the lazy, and the dishonest folks in the world. They make it easy to distinguish yourself."
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'I got yer dotcom right here" :grin:
Shorty and I both had to be drug kicking AND screaming into 1998 , and now it's 2017 :shocked:
Dusty
Did you mean "drug" or " drugged" Dusty ? :grin:
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Did you mean "drug" or " drugged" Dusty ? :grin:
Yes .
Dusty
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I use all of those words frequently. I am sure I know what they mean to me.
I thought it was ok...
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I don't, however, see how "social media", FB, and all the rest of the things that kill 10,000 people a year on the road have anything to do with that?
They don't. It's the Johns Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, NIH, Cleveland Clinic (etc.) web sites that provide good medical information that can help a person decide if it's time to go to a doctor. When I look for medical information on the web, I usually search for something like "pancreatitis symptoms nih" and "pancreatitis sysptoms mayo", or just go to their sites directly and serch, which weeds out forums, quack sites, and other sources of nonsense.
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They don't. It's the Johns Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, NIH, Cleveland Clinic (etc.) web sites that provide good medical information that can help a person decide if it's time to go to a doctor. When I look for medical information on the web, I usually search for something like "pancreatitis symptoms nih" and "pancreatitis sysptoms mayo", or just go to their sites directly and serch, which weeds out forums, quack sites, and other sources of nonsense.
I'm sure (like any other use of the internet) that there's some interesting information there, like "last English pirate" or "1000SP pinging" ...
... but whether there's an internet or not, I actually trust my doctor. He's been my doctor for 30 years, he knows me inside and out (literally), and I don't need to get out a medical book or do a Google search to find out what might be wrong with me if I hurt or "feel funny". I just go to him and tell him the symptoms. Why would that change based on some highly generalized information on the Internet that I might find?
Sure, I'm interested in my health. I know the date of my next A1C test (August 21st, 90 days after my last one), I know all my blood chemistry, I know that I have incipient arthritis behind my right patella (hurts like hell at the moment but my orthopedist explained what to do), my blood pressure this morning was 130/80, and I know that my blood sugar this morning was 90.
I'm sorry, I'm just not going to go skipping around internet sites trying to figure out what that pain in my upper chest and shoulder is. Others may want to do it; it may be a benefit to them, but it's not a benefit to me.
Where to buy the cheapest CR123 lithium batteries for my Streamlight? Got it! How to tell if I have pancreatic cancer? No.
Lannis
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I guess I don't like the idea of going to my doctor and letting him make all the decisions any more than I like taking my Guzzi to a mechanic and letting him make all the decisions. Gaining some knowledge first is never a bad thing, in my experience.
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I guess I don't like the idea of going to my doctor and letting him make all the decisions any more than I like taking my Guzzi to a mechanic and letting him make all the decisions. Gaining some knowledge first is never a bad thing, in my experience.
At my shop there's a big sign above the door:
SHOP RATES:
$60.00 per hour
$80.00 per hour if you watch
$100.00 per hour if you help
I certainly wouldn't hand my crankshaft over to a machinist and say "I want this ground .010 undersized. And let me tell you how I want to do it; plus, I know about setting these things up so I'm going to watch and make sure you do it OK - I saw it on the Internet!"
I can stay perfectly well up to date on my health without the Internet.
And I could never get into a "Google" car. If Google has been monitoring my posts on various sites over the years, they'd drive my car straight off a cliff .... :evil:
Lannis
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The power of solid medical information from a reputable source(John Hopkins..etc..) should not be marginalized by the thinking that
everyone everywhere has routine access to there own Doctor. Sometimes we research these reputable sites to provide information to
others(Aunts, Uncles, the elderly..etc..) unable to get out to a doctor every time they feel funny.
Sometimes people are in denial of the serious nature of their symptoms until a trusted family member has "the talk" with them
and hopefully convince them to go.
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The power of solid medical information from a reputable source(John Hopkins..etc..) should not be marginalized by the thinking that
everyone everywhere has routine access to there own Doctor. Sometimes we research these reputable sites to provide information to
others(Aunts, Uncles, the elderly..etc..) unable to get out to a doctor every time they feel funny.
Sometimes people are in denial of the serious nature of their symptoms until a trusted family member has "the talk" with them
and hopefully convince them to go.
That's very true. But we did that before the Internet, too. My mother had a condition called "musical ear" where she heard music all the time, sort of like ringing in your ears except that it was melodies and songs. It's a known condition and I got a book from the library about it and sat down with her and explained it and made her feel better about it.
I'm just giving counterexamples to the "There Was No Life Fit To Live Before Smart Phones" vibe that people seem to be on. And if I had to navigate Paris alone in a car (the contingency IS remote), I'd probably ask for a GPS in the rental. But own one for driving in this country? Not worth it .. to ME.
Lannis
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But own one for driving in this country? Not worth it .. to ME.
When I first took the 1000SP to LA.. without a GPS, I'd still be like the man called Charlie that rode the MTA. :smiley:
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I certainly wouldn't hand my crankshaft over to a machinist and say "I want this ground .010 undersized. And let me tell you how I want to do it; plus, I know about setting these things up so I'm going to watch and make sure you do it OK - I saw it on the Internet!"
I've had a couple crankshafts reground. I do research ahead of time, and make measurements with my 2"-3" micrometer so I know how much needs to be removed. Then I go to the machinist with the crank and explain what I'd like him to do, letting him know that if he sees a flaw in my plan that I'd like him to tell me. Then when I get the crank back, I use plastigage to check the bearing clearances before closing up the engine. To put it back together and install in in the vehicle without checking the clearances would be grossly negligent in my opinion.
But I don't see much parallel to my relationship with my doctor(s) because I'm not trained in doctorin' like I'm trained in machining. I do believe that doing some reading about the relevant medical subjects allows me to ask intelligent questions and helps me make informed decisions about my health though.
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When I first took the 1000SP to LA.. without a GPS, I'd still be like the man called Charlie that rode the MTA. :smiley:
Kingston Trio?
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At my shop there's a big sign above the door:
SHOP RATES:
$60.00 per hour
$80.00 per hour if you watch
$100.00 per hour if you help
I certainly wouldn't hand my crankshaft over to a machinist and say "I want this ground .010 undersized. And let me tell you how I want to do it; plus, I know about setting these things up so I'm going to watch and make sure you do it OK - I saw it on the Internet!"
I can stay perfectly well up to date on my health without the Internet.
And I could never get into a "Google" car. If Google has been monitoring my posts on various sites over the years, they'd drive my car straight off a cliff .... :evil:
Lannis
That's the same sign I had over my shop door. And you know what? There are a FEW customers who do insist on directing my work -- where and how to work on the problem that THEY decided it was, and even which tools to use :angry: , on account of they got some time in at the service department of the local Sears and Roebucks, pulling minimum wage to plug new circuit boards into big screens, per workorder.
After listening to a guy describe his problem and spending about 90sec troubleshooting, I told him what was wrong. He FORBADE me to go straight to it, because he'd just fixed that, and his work was beyond inspection. :coffee: I had to do the entire troubleshooting tree over two days with him panting in my ear, and PROVE the problem could be nothing else, before I was allowed to do the 15-minute fix. He only wanted to pay the 15 minutes, and called me a liar when I told him that the problem was his sloppy work -- even though he was there beside me when I fixed it. I charged the two days at the "whiner rate".
They giggle and joke about the three shop rates coming in, but when the time runs long because of their interference, they whine and moan that the $100/hr on the sign was dead serious. If you want to obstruct my work and tell me what not to do, then yes, you need to pay for the wasted time.
I feel better now, thanks.
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To put it back together and install in in the vehicle without checking the clearances would be grossly negligent in my opinion.
Well, that's good, but if I pay an expert machinist, who is ALWAYS going to be someone that has been recommended to me and that I've met and evaluated personally, and I get him to machine something to some ten-thousandths of an inch ...
... why, after paying all that money, would I go trying to check behind him with my non-professional tools and gauges to "see if he did it right"? I might as well take my new Subaru to pieces and gauge the crank journals to see if THEY did it right.
Oh well, these analogies are starting to fall apart anyhow ....
Lannis
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Kingston Trio?
Yep.. :smiley: and probably before them. But it is true. The *first* time you are on the LA interstate system and try to go to an address.. much less just get off at the correct exit is more than daunting trying to do it with a map.
You have to know where you are going and be in the proper lane well before getting off.
Or die. :smiley:
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There's the misinterpretation right here...
I'm just giving counterexamples to the "There Was No Life Fit To Live Before Smart Phones" vibe that people seem to be on...
Lannis
More accurately the tenor has been...
Recognize the good & bad - the good is too important to throw out with the bad.
I think it's unanimous that, as ITSEC said, tech is a double edged sword. Until AI comes of age & kills off mankind we'd all do good make it work for us. Have a nice day. :grin:
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There's the misinterpretation right here...
More accurately the tenor has been... "Recognize the good & bad - the good is too important to throw out with the bad."
I think it's unanimous that, as ITSEC said, tech is a double edged sword. Until AI comes of age & kills off mankind we'd all do good make it work for us. Have a nice day. :grin:
And in a lot of areas, I guess I disagree that the "good" is so good that it shouldn't go away with the "bad".
And AI is only going to kill those who enslave themselves to it ... assuming it ever happens. Been predicted for a long time - SKYnet went live 18 years ago, for heavens sake ....
Lannis
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First, I embraced this technology from the beginning. I like it and use it a LOT. I wish it had come sooner, would have made my research years SOOO much easier.
I love my phone and computer. I have to say that I enjoy the ability to be able to look up just about anything when I want to. Yep, even in the middle of a conversation.
Yes, it puts a stop to those arguments about whether a 1957 Chevy came with a 4 barrel from the factory. Instead of the back and forth, ending in some sort of wager or anger, the answer is right there. Or the wife can look at something on a shelf and say, 'I wonder if they make it in red'. Yep, 20sec later we know.
When my father-in-law was diagnosed with AML we could find out exactly what it was, courses of treatment and possible outcomes. Better to plan the action of the family for the next months. I can still recall when the doc thought I had melanoma. Took me many evenings at several university libraries to find medical journals on the disease and how it was treated. And most were old and out of date. These days you can get current information with much less work.
Facebook. Yep, when the kids first moved away it was great. We could see what they were doing on a regular basis. They (and we) eventually dropped it and text/email/call on a regular basis.
Email/text. Probably the best thing yet for me (no, not while driving). Saved me numerous business trips. Same with video conferencing. Also allows me to send information to many people at once, instead of trying to connect with each by phone over the course of a few days.
I do see how it can become addicting. Like television or reading, it can take over your life if you let it.
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/mk20SQ/15032331837581316517008.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mk20SQ)
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Best wishes to you. Enjoy the quiet. The online world today (WG excluded) is full of hatred, lies and stupidity.......so it is a handy reflection of the physical world. If you look, you can also find love, truth and intelligence- sometimes my eyes get tired and my battery runs out looking for it, especially lately.
Cheers.
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I wonder how long this thread go on after Muley has gone to the dark side? Glad I could share my pork butt and kraut recipe with you Muley!
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I wonder how long this thread go on after Muley has gone to the dark side? Glad I could share my pork butt and kraut recipe with you Muley!
He told me to delete the thread tomorrow, during the eclipse.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
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He told me to delete the thread tomorrow, during the eclipse.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
:laugh: :thumb: