Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: leafman60 on September 02, 2017, 10:06:54 PM
-
Today I checked out the new 114 series of Softails that have replaced the now-discontinued Dyna series. I had an extended ride on the new 114 Fat Bob and my reaction was – WOW.
The new engine, frame and suspension is better than anything they’ve made in the past. The stock 114 puts out an amazing amount of torque. Out of the hole, the bike will best my 1200GS.
Gone is the rubber-mounted drive train. The frame is very rigid and fixed when pushed hard on curves.
The suspension has more rear travel than any of the stock Dynas as well as the stock Touring models! H-D is using a triangulated rear swing section with an adjustable shock under the seat. This set-up very much resembles that of the Guzzi Daytona and V11 Sport series. It all works well.
In some ways, labeling these bikes “Softails” is a shame since they have very little in common with the previous Softail models. That badge conjures up the hard suspension and limitations of the old Softail that is long gone now.
Would I buy one? Not yet. They are a little too “cruiserish” for me right now. I don’t like the forward pegs of pretty much all of them and I don’t like the cornering manners of the fat front tires as fitted to the bike I rode today.
The bikes have potential and the 114 engine is fantastic.
.
-
Yup, good stuff. Glad you liked!
-
The Softail grows up! Glad to hear they are giving it the suspension it deserves!
-
(http://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/motorcycles/my16/dyna/fat-bob/overview/dom/16-hd-fat-bob-1.jpg)
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this. That's not the new one obviously.
-
oops, my bad.. I was only trying to show a pic since the Op didn't.
(http://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/styles/655_4x3/public/images/2017/08/2018-harley-davidson-fat-bob-114-side.jpg?itok=DVt8SIdb)
-
Ah ha ha BTDT.
Ironically I liked the out going one too and considered buying one as recently as when I picked up my RK.
I liked the dual LED tail light in the fender of the Dyna version as well as the dual discs and smaller/lighter chassis than the touring models.
-
oops, my bad.. I was only trying to show a pic since the Op didn't.
(http://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/styles/655_4x3/public/images/2017/08/2018-harley-davidson-fat-bob-114-side.jpg?itok=DVt8SIdb)
Is that the new Star ?
Dusty
-
I love the irony when a guy who rides a bike with a flaccid whale penis for a tank tries to insult the looks of another bike.
-
I love the irony when a guy who rides a bike with a flaccid whale penis for a tank tries to insult the looks of another bike.
That isn't an answer . AND who said it was an insult ?
Dusty
-
Passive-aggressive much?
-
oops, my bad.. I was only trying to show a pic since the Op didn't.
(http://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/styles/655_4x3/public/images/2017/08/2018-harley-davidson-fat-bob-114-side.jpg?itok=DVt8SIdb)
Was at the HD dealer on Sat. To pick up a wedding gift for the young man marrying my niece. He has a 883 Sportster. I got him LED lights.
Anyway, saw the new street and road glides, which look exceptionally nice. Also say this new fat bob. Pretty strange bike. Like a cruiser scrambler. I hope a reviewer gets it out in the dirt.
The Delux model had nice style too. I think HD has some winners on their hands. Now if matte flat paint will just go out of style.
-
My point is this , we have come full circle . The Japanese bike builders started copying the MoCo designs 30 some odd years ago , now the MoCo is borrowing from the Japanese .
Dusty
-
Curtis motorcycles, discuss...
-
Curtis motorcycles, discuss...
Perhaps you mean Curtiss Motorcycles, the new name of Confederate Motorcycles?
-
Oops forgot an S
-
My point is this , we have come full circle . The Japanese bike builders started copying the MoCo designs 30 some odd years ago , now the MoCo is borrowing from the Japanese .
Dusty
:1:
Or if you can't beat them join them.
I have had two great weekends riding in the Rocky Mountains of B.C. and Alberta and had lots of discussions with HD riders at various places. I had a long discussion with a fellow who was on a 2017 full dresser, I know nothing of the models, they all look the same to me but this one had water cooled heads and all the bells and whistles, set the guy back over $50K CDN. He was a long time HD owner and this bike was a major step up in performance and handling. On Friday I talked to another guy on a similar water cooled deluxe HD and he added the stage 3 performance package, was into the bike for just under $60K. He was able to keep up to my buddies 2008 Goldwing but the BMW just blew him away and I could have bought two Goldwings or two GTL Beemers for what the HD cost.
-
My point is this , we have come full circle . The Japanese bike builders started copying the MoCo designs 30 some odd years ago , now the MoCo is borrowing from the Japanese .
Dusty
You say this bike has styling clues from the Japanese?
(http://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/styles/655_4x3/public/images/2017/08/2018-harley-davidson-fat-bob-114-side.jpg?itok=DVt8SIdb)
I see styling clues from this bike just after WW2....Bobbed fenders front and rear, fat front tire and of course the fuel tank....
(https://occhiolungo.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/scan27_thumb.jpg?w=650&h=755)
-
You say this bike has styling clues from the Japanese?
(http://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/styles/655_4x3/public/images/2017/08/2018-harley-davidson-fat-bob-114-side.jpg?itok=DVt8SIdb)
I see styling clues from this bike just after WW2....Bobbed fenders front and rear, fat front tire and of course the fuel tank....
(https://occhiolungo.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/scan27_thumb.jpg?w=650&h=755)
The tires were never that fat , the exhaust systems that convoluted , or the seats shaped anything like that . The upside down forks are borrowed from the Japanese , as are several other styling cues .
Dusty
-
OMG talk about fake news, USD = JAPanInc. styling? Someone better talk to BMW, Ducati, KTM, Guzzi, Triumph, ETC.
It's a stupid comparison like the rest of it.
There are no "borrowed" styling cues, they simply departed here and there from a few of their more traditional lines to make something more edgy while making it functional.
-
OMG talk about fake news, USD = JAPanInc. styling? Someone better talk to BMW, Ducati, KTM, Guzzi, Triumph, ETC.
It's a stupid comparison like the rest of it.
There are no "borrowed" styling cues, they simply departed here and there from a few of their more traditional lines to make something more edgy while making it functional.
You are aware of the fact that sometimes you tend to be blind to the obvious . Yeah , the USD fork was not invented by the Japanese , but just how many Ducatis or KTM's were running wild on the streets 25 years ago ? It was the Japanese sportbikes that were ubiquitous , heck BMW didn't even build a sportbike back then . As for the fat tires on cruiser bikes , it was the Japanese that started that also , bikes like the Kawasaki Mean Streak were there first . Heck , one of the reasons HD's from 20 years ago felt lighter on their feet than Asian cruisers was that HD kept their tire sizes rational . Sorry if you can't see the cues that are so blatantly there .
Dusty
-
(http://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/styles/655_4x3/public/images/2017/08/2018-harley-davidson-fat-bob-114-side.jpg?itok=DVt8SIdb)
Is that the new Star ?
Dusty
this is
(https://cloud.yamahamotorsports.com/library/img.jpg?id=574deddf2a0ab640505f682c&w=840)
Star Low Fat Bob
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8c/ae/b7/8caeb72fd69cf23c7738b44b1116029e--custom-bikes-custom-motorcycles.jpg)
-
You are aware of the fact that sometimes you tend to be blind to the obvious . Yeah , the USD fork was not invented by the Japanese , but just how many Ducatis or KTM's were running wild on the streets 25 years ago ? It was the Japanese sportbikes that were ubiquitous , heck BMW didn't even build a sportbike back then . As for the fat tires on cruiser bikes , it was the Japanese that started that also , bikes like the Kawasaki Mean Streak were there first . Heck , one of the reasons HD's from 20 years ago felt lighter on their feet than Asian cruisers was that HD kept their tire sizes rational . Sorry if you can't see the cues that are so blatantly there .
Dusty
USD suspensions aren't a styling cue they're a functional choice.
The closest thing you have to an argument is that for decades JAPanInc. produced "cruisers" that where a bit like caricatures of Harleys so if Harley steps outside their usual styling cues they risk becoming caricatures of themselves.
But your points were patently ridiculous.
Fat tires are JAPanInc? Really?
The exhaust is JAPanInc?
[emoji23]
-
USD suspensions aren't a styling cue they're a functional choice.
The closest thing you have to an argument is that for decades JAPanInc. produced "cruisers" that where a bit like caricatures of Harleys so if Harley steps outside their usual styling cues they risk becoming caricatures of themselves.
But your points were patently ridiculous.
Fat tires are JAPanInc? Really?
The exhaust is JAPanInc?
[emoji23]
On a cruiser bike yes USD forks are a styling cue , as are the use of those oversized tires .
Dusty
-
On a cruiser bike yes USD forks are a styling cue , as are the use of those oversized tires .
Dusty
Maybe try riding before you decide.
Not everything Harley builds is automatically a cruiser, even if most have a cruiser bent.
-
Maybe try riding before you decide.
Not everything Harley builds is automatically a cruiser, even if most have a cruiser bent.
Actually with rational sized tires , and a rational seating position I'm sure it would be a wonderful motorbike in a 1990's kind of way :evil: Look , we see this differently , you love HD's , I don't . Still, that doesn't change the fact that we have come full circle , NTTIAWWT :laugh: Dusty
-
Actually with rational sized tires , and a rational seating position I'm sure it would be a wonderful motorbike in a 1990's kind of way :evil: Look , we see this differently , you love HD's , I don't . Still, that doesn't change the fact that we have come full circle , NTTIAWWT [emoji23] Dusty
What you seem to fail to comprehend is that I LOVE MOTORCYCLES. I don't have a blind spot for any one brand though I do tend to enjoy more traits of some brands more than others.
Ironically I got very close to buying a new Virago instead of a new Sportster. The reason for strongly considering the Virago at the time was strictly functional/mechanical differences.
-
What you seem to fail to comprehend is that I LOVE MOTORCYCLES. I don't have a blind spot for any one brand though I do tend to enjoy more traits of some brands more than others.
Ironically I got very close to buying a new Virago instead of a new Sportster. The reason for strongly considering the Virago at the time was strictly functional/mechanical differences.
Kev , I live and breath motorbikes also , my friends and family call me a monomaniac :laugh:
One question , if the Virago was functionally superior , why did you buy the Sportster ?
Dusty
-
Kev , I live and breath motorbikes also , my friends and family call me a monomaniac [emoji23]
One question , if the Virago was functionally superior , why did you buy the Sportster ?
Dusty
I didn't say it was functionally superior, it had some functional design points that were better and some that were worse.
In the end I went with one that had more check marks in my wants column and most of those are functional considerations.
-
I didn't say it was functionally superior, it had some functional design points that were better and some that were worse.
In the end I went with one that had more check marks in my wants column and most of those are functional considerations.
More vibration , less performance , and weaker brakes ? It's OK Kev , we know you loooove HD :evil:
Dusty
-
More vibration , less performance , and weaker brakes ? It's OK Kev , we know you loooove HD :evil:
Dusty
Now about the new Curtiss Motorcycles, why the name change?
-
More vibration , less performance , and weaker brakes ? It's OK Kev , we know you loooove HD
My V7 II shakes about the same as my 883 Sportster!
That should be referred to as character!
-
My V7 II shakes about the same as my 883 Sportster!
That should be referred to as character!
Rubber mount ? I think Kev is referring to a rigid mount . Really just poking at Kev and his love of HD :evil:
Dusty
-
Rubber mount ? I think Kev is referring to a rigid mount . Really just poking at Kev and his love of HD
Both Sportsters were pre-rubber mount, which began in 2004.
Kevin (alias Bone on XLForum.net) is worth all the razzing you can give him!
And, he seems to love to debate!!
The 1200 Sport did shake a bit more than the V7 II, at idle.
The MG is smoother cruising.
-
Kevin (alias Bone on XLForum.net) is worth all the razzing you can give him!
And, he seems to love to debate!!
Do you think? :wink:
-
I love the irony when a guy who rides a bike with a flaccid whale penis for a tank tries to insult the looks of another bike.
LMAO , which bike are you talking about ? i cannot stop laughing.... Jut curious :laugh:
-
The tires were never that fat , the exhaust systems that convoluted , or the seats shaped anything like that . The upside down forks are borrowed from the Japanese , as are several other styling cues .
Dusty
A typical 1940's Harley bob job had the same size tires front and rear and "fat" as compared to European bikes of that era.....And by golly this 1935 BMW does appear to have an USD...Maybe the Japanese and Germans shared the idea during WW2? :grin:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-p_9E1krwkYM/UYVyzGAyMKI/AAAAAAAAiRU/kWDDhoVpRfY/s640/1935+BMW+R12,.jpg)
-
LMAO , which bike are you talking about ? i cannot stop laughing.... Jut curious :laugh:
Are you certain?
You can't unsee this sort of thing.
You've been warned.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/oGC6dN43bCPIrnnDgY3X5pbaiJ8wPCb_1yuR3VCREkhV9AUTWB1ZzciJb-twigIQZKSmyk3oipTRf2Df-xwsE_ie6cTrYJe6Hir7CLSzuz4akZUqpY8ZuwbaKCtkuHGG4D_w7XRw4LaQR8ScQWYu2oL6Usd0H3gsLQGO2rHMDJ5mv8y_NsxoIHqysWV8t0AMeR2DUFrUlHjISM_78lDxpm_9G0pOaDp61sUdxrzEu8Z1N3Hv-1Y_yeEZvTwwm18roBF34U0Rqj6dV35fbJsmyByjShVV39zpdDUm2ZWXelESywM7yjzKsgOOpD1Oi3vjcGV0X1bQpbhaGKfxgetSFz1S9Dow0ywxjwHPOgm95vCCIVdW4zFR5Jee4qF5DjussOLMqg1Nj39R9ZPgZP8JmOvUwia1mqskqNLcPFfpqazlar1o68FnlUe6iC7igAY_-s-RxcoV0ayfwkV9T94XPk-9_BFTycPqxULbhbtJe5Rj49g7cBRS10A_ygnz8Jya5VCnP6uAXpUDxL0vGrPyESTgxchPDa_1JbM_LsT2pqEVQiW2rXnwMxMEHp0rVXMzsKPN5d6xsX1Xq06kBbLIsJHcrf2yRqraVKWqG1V31U322dNPYdup9pCKs3H4NuhcZzfxxI1Y1TFo5K9pk7Th-7pNyf_bLodLzZ9Gjm0RuZE05zo=w1225-h919-no)
-
this is
(https://cloud.yamahamotorsports.com/library/img.jpg?id=574deddf2a0ab640505f682c&w=840)
Star Low Fat Bob
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8c/ae/b7/8caeb72fd69cf23c7738b44b1116029e--custom-bikes-custom-motorcycles.jpg)
Geez that last one dropped its guts on the ground??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
OMG talk about fake news, USD = JAPanInc. styling? Someone better talk to BMW, Ducati, KTM, Guzzi, Triumph, ETC.
It's a stupid comparison like the rest of it.
There are no "borrowed" styling cues, they simply departed here and there from a few of their more traditional lines to make something more edgy while making it functional.
To me the new FATBOB looks to resemble very much a Yamaha VMAX from the mid 80's. I'd post a picture but my techno skills prevent it.
-
To me the new FATBOB looks to resemble very much a Yamaha VMAX from the mid 80's. I'd post a picture but my techno skills prevent it.
(https://i1.wp.com/ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/web-IMG_1022.jpg?w=800)
(http://www.cycleworld.com/sites/cycleworld.com/files/styles/655_4x3/public/images/2017/08/2018-harley-davidson-fat-bob-114-side.jpg?itok=DVt8SIdb)
OMG, it's the spitting image! :shocked:
* /Sarcasm * :evil:
Now can we put this nonsense to rest? :rolleyes:
-
Kev , the resemblance is similar to the one between you and Telly Savalas , not exact , but everyone else sees it :evil:
Dusty
-
Kev , the resemblance is similar to the one between you and Telly Savalas , not exact , but everyone else sees it :evil:
Dusty
Thanks the gawds for the Google, I had to look that one up.
Couldn't find a pic with a goatee though...
-
Thanks the gawds for the Google, I had to look that one up.
Couldn't find a pic with a goatee though...
:laugh:
Dusty
-
...this 1935 BMW does appear to have an USD...
I didn't realize BMW was the first one to use any type of telescopic fork with hydraulic damping, upside down or not. In fact, if they were the first, then you'd think theirs would be right side up, and the other type would be upside down. From Wikipedia:
"In 1935 BMW became the first manufacturer to produce a motorcycle with hydraulically damped telescopic forks."
-
I'm with the OP, that this is way more appealing than most of what Harley is/has been doing (have always liked a Sportster, generally). One thing that jumps at me about this, and I feel the same way about the Indian Scout, is the way the seat locks you and your pelvis into position. I applaud Guzzi on the V9 on that point, that the flat seat allows for some shift - fore / aft, and tilt.
Am I alone in liking space in the saddle?
-
Am I alone in liking space in the saddle?
No, you're not.
-
I didn't realize BMW was the first one to use any type of telescopic fork with hydraulic damping, upside down or not. In fact, if they were the first, then you'd think theirs would be right side up, and the other type would be upside down. From Wikipedia:
"In 1935 BMW became the first manufacturer to produce a motorcycle with hydraulically damped telescopic forks."
Yes, it was news to me also when I looked it up.....Aircraft have used "upside down " struts in the landing gear since the 1930's...I believe the British bike manufacturers pretty much developed the non USD forks in the late 1930's....That was the style until dirtbikes? went to USD first?
-
I'm with the OP, that this is way more appealing than most of what Harley is/has been doing (have always liked a Sportster, generally). One thing that jumps at me about this, and I feel the same way about the Indian Scout, is the way the seat locks you and your pelvis into position. I applaud Guzzi on the V9 on that point, that the flat seat allows for some shift - fore / aft, and tilt.
Am I alone in liking space in the saddle?
I think it depends greatly on the saddle.
Like I can move fore and aft on the V7, but it doesn't help with the fact that the saddle is cutting into the underside of my legs.
I can't really move fore and aft on the RK police saddle, but it doesn't matter in the slightest because the thing is perfectly supportive.
But generally if I had to pick one, I'd want a supportive saddle that did allow me to move around a bit.
-
Yes, it was news to me also when I looked it up.....Aircraft have used "upside down " struts in the landing gear since the 1930's...I believe the British bike manufacturers pretty much developed the non USD forks in the late 1930's....That was the style until dirtbikes? went to USD first?
I think the first telescopic forks were on the old Scott Flying Squirrel in about 1908 , although they were undamped . Yamaha YZ MXer's started using inverted forks in about 1990 , and I think some supersport street bikes from Japan (Suzuki?) started about the same time .
Dusty
-
Guys , this video just made ma laugh...
please don't take it too seriously and don't get offended.
https://youtu.be/6JsBZVo1q3Y
-
Guys , this video just made ma laugh...
please don't take it too seriously and don't get offended.
https://youtu.be/6JsBZVo1q3Y
Saw it last week, already have my canned response from another website:
What sucks the most about riders in general is the subculture that seems to encourage people to be negative about everything to appear cool.
For f's sake this tool is criticizing how the new chassis works without actually RIDING ONE. He at least admits that maybe he was talking out of his ass at the end but shit.
And what are his criticisms? It's the usual litany of BS, wah wah I don't like how they look, the suspension doesn't have rebound or compression adjustment, it's only a few pounds lighter...Harley is damned it they do and damned if they don't (half say it changed too much, half say it didn't change enough). BUT WAIT, it gets better.
...then this tool goes on to pat himself on the back for being the real marketing and real way to reach younger riders, why? Because guys like him ride the bikes hard and shred with em showing how hard they can really be ridden.
HOLD ON A MINUTE you douche, you just contradicted yourself. Didn't you just finish bitching about the suspension not being enough? Don't you NEED rebound and compression adjustments? How the f are you guys all "shredding" with the current Dyna then?
There was also this brief mention of "liquid cooling"? If he was stating they have oil coolers that was a stupid way of doing it. Or did he just fall on his f'n head too many times?
Nah, typical, not surprising.
-
I think the first telescopic forks were on the old Scott Flying Squirrel in about 1908 , although they were undamped . Yamaha YZ MXer's started using inverted forks in about 1990 , and I think some supersport street bikes from Japan (Suzuki?) started about the same time .
Dusty
This shows an 85 KTM....Might be others that are earlier...
(http://www.pulpmx.com/sites/default/files/u3/1985_ktm125.jpg)
-
Moto Guzzi fitted hydraulic "upside down"/male slider forks to the Airone in 1947. Well before they came into vogue on motocross bikes or anywhere else for that matter.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Moto_Guzzi_Airone_%28250_cc%29_1947.jpg)
-
The lowly Honda Trail 70 had inverted forks in 1969. :rolleyes: :grin:
(http://www.ct70honda.com/user/Honda%20Trail%20CT70H%20K0%20-%201969.jpg)
OK, those forks are more like pogo sticks, just a simple spring and nylon bushing, no hydraulics there.
-
The lowly Honda Trail 70 had inverted forks in 1969. :rolleyes: :grin:
(http://www.ct70honda.com/user/Honda%20Trail%20CT70H%20K0%20-%201969.jpg)
OK, those forks are more like pogo sticks, just a simple spring and nylon bushing, no hydraulics there.
Hmm , that front fender looks kinda familiar ... could it be that HD ... nah , surely not :evil:
Dusty
-
I think he's fairly funny, what he's trying to do is actually pretty dam hard to do well, as shown by how few are able to do it well. I suspect it's just that much more funny if you're like me and already have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to HD!!
-
I think he's fairly funny, what he's trying to do is actually pretty dam hard to do well, as shown by how few are able to do it well. I suspect it's just that much more funny if you're like me and already have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to HD!!
He'd be funnier if he didn't contradict himself... Well maybe not funny, just less stupid.
-
Hmm , that front fender looks kinda familiar ... could it be that HD ... nah , surely not :evil:
Dusty
Those ape hangers are!
-
Wait a minute, where did they get that name!
-
Wait a minute, where did they get that name!
Dude , I'd be looking for a good lawyer , gotta be worth millions :shocked:
Dusty
-
:1:
Or if you can't beat them join them.
I have had two great weekends riding in the Rocky Mountains of B.C. and Alberta and had lots of discussions with HD riders at various places. I had a long discussion with a fellow who was on a 2017 full dresser, I know nothing of the models, they all look the same to me but this one had water cooled heads and all the bells and whistles, set the guy back over $50K CDN. He was a long time HD owner and this bike was a major step up in performance and handling. On Friday I talked to another guy on a similar water cooled deluxe HD and he added the stage 3 performance package, was into the bike for just under $60K. He was able to keep up to my buddies 2008 Goldwing but the BMW just blew him away and I could have bought two Goldwings or two GTL Beemers for what the HD cost.
Harley has been outselling all the Japanese combined, I have had Honda and Kawasaki cruisers. I put 100,000 miles on Kawasaki Vulcans. The new Rushmore Harley touring bikes with the M8 engine is way ahead of the Japanese.
When I had my '85 Honda Shadow 700, it was a much better bike than what Harley was selling at the time. Then Honda, who couldn't understand why Harley was still outselling them, dumbed the bikes down and added vibration to them over the next decade.
-
I think he's fairly funny, what he's trying to do is actually pretty dam hard to do well, as shown by how few are able to do it well. I suspect it's just that much more funny if you're like me and already have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to HD!!
Some well balanced people have a chip on both shoulders;-p
-
[quote author=Kev m
From my demo I'd say it's better than many previous "heavy weight" sporting cruisers, but no it's not a sport bike (nor do I think a Cali 1400 or GW is either).
[/quote]
Confirmed: the Cali 1400 is not a sport bike.
-
No politics fellas , seriously .
Dusty
-
Not everything Harley builds is automatically a cruiser, even if most have a cruiser bent.
u sure about that kev? what's a non-cruiser harley? beside the XR ive never seen one... and the XR seems like a cruiser with some 'standard' touches to make it less cruseresque. The new roadsters are less cruiserish but I went and looked at those, would need thousand$ in aftermarket & re-farkling to get it de-cruisered enough for me to bite.
I really don't know, Im not busting your balls. But i would be interested to see any 'non-cruiser' Harley as I don't even know what they would be?? That's the main reason I ignore harley?
-
He's going to claim mid mount pegs don't equal cruiser. At least that's what I think is going to say. :azn:
-
u sure about that kev? what's a non-cruiser harley? beside the XR ive never seen one... and the XR seems like a cruiser with some 'standard' touches to make it less cruseresque. The new roadsters are less cruiserish but I went and looked at those, would need thousand$ in aftermarket & re-farkling to get it de-cruisered enough for me to bite.
I really don't know, Im not busting your balls. But i would be interested to see any 'non-cruiser' Harley as I don't even know what they would be?? That's the main reason I ignore harley?
The problem is going to be semantics, but I'll happily break it down.
Half the world sees only two kinds of bikes: Cruisers and Sportbikes.
That's the view from orbit, but if you ascribe to it then so but be it they're all cruisers.
But as motorcyclists most of us see more diversity in the world with a lot of gray area between the two.
Sport Bike, Sport Tourer, Enduro, Motocross, Adventure Tourer, Standard/Naked, Classic/Roadster, Touring Bike, Cruiser.
And I'm sure we can subdivide those categories even more the closer you look.
As someone who tends towards the right side of that sliding scale I look very closely and see huge differences between the bikes I would buy and what I would therefore deem a "cruiser".
Now what are the defining characteristics of each and where does one begin and the other end?
I think that's somewhat fluid.
Does one trait define a bike to a single category?
Anything with rearsets is sport, anything with forwards is cruiser?
Can a Tourer have rearsets or forwards?
You can't just say:
Rearsets, Mids, Forwards (because people even differ on the definition of those terms).
How about seating position?
Leaned forward, upright, leaned back?
But that varies based on the size of the rider, and can be changed with a set of bars.
I think ultimately that you have to arrive at the definition by the sum total of all the parts and how it is intended to be used, or modified to be used.
To ME a Cruiser is the most stylized form of bike made mostly/only for looks and meant for limited use. A combination of traits from extreme forward controls, raked front end, large pullback or ape bars, tiny tank, extreme differences front to back wheel sizes, sits very low, has an extreme wheelbase, lacks luggage or windshield, has a small seat, etc.
The more you depart from this chopperesque picture, the less "cruiser" a bike becomes to me.
To illustrate it from another brand look at Triumph who split Bonnie's into Modern Classics and other bikes into Cruisers. Though even some of their "cruisers" would likely fall short of my definition.
Anyway loosely basing on these things I would split much of the Harley line based on their various characteristics.
I'd call them:
Classic Standards: some Sportsters (like the standards, and Roadsters, maybe even some of the bobbers all with mid mount controls some with dual discs, USD forks or other traits) and some Dynas (again largely with mid mounts and dual discs)
Standards: Street models, especially the Street Rod. Fat Bob might fit here best.
Cruisers (some Sportsters, especially models with forward controls, and most FX and some FL Softails of the past)
Power Cruisers (Maybe Sport Cruiser is a better term and would encompass more models): VRod maybe the new Fat Bob, but it's not really playing in the same league with only about 100 hp.
Touring Cruisers: One Sportster (Superlow Touring), FLST Softails that come with bags and windshields (like the Heritage), the Dyna Switchback might wind up here for low ground clearance. A few FLH models that are lowered might wind up here for the same reason.
Touring Bikes: most FLH models like Road Kings and Electra/Road Glide Glides wind up here.
Similarly the new Softails would be scattered mostly in Cruisers, but possibly Modern Standards, Classic Standards, or Touring Cruiser depending.
But truthfully bikes like:
Base 883, 883R, 1200S, 1200R, XR1200, XR1200 CX, FXDX, FXDB, and most of the FLH models were and are not "cruisers" to me.
-
He's going to claim mid mount pegs don't equal cruiser. At least that's what I think is going to say. :azn:
It's so much more than that. It's a giant sliding scale with form on one side and function on the other. A chopper on one end and supersport on the other.
-
So....Harley got rid of the rubber mounted engine and went to balance shafts....I think that's a move in the right direction if they keep the 45 degree engine......
-
So....Harley got rid of the rubber mounted engine and went to balance shafts....I think that's a move in the right direction if they keep the 45 degree engine......
Just for the Softails, which actually never had rubbermounts (the Dynas, touring, and Sportsters since 04 all did/do). And the Softails actually first went to a counterbalanced motor back with the intro of the TC88B (B= balanced) back around 2000.
-
So....Harley got rid of the rubber mounted engine and went to balance shafts....I think that's a move in the right direction if they keep the 45 degree engine......
All M8 engines are counter balanced. The touring line still uses rubber mounting and the softails added a second counterbalance from what I have read.
My M8 road king is the best Cruiser I have owned. I really enjoy riding it and love how everything is quick release so I can transform the bike to meet my wants each day.
-
no one mentioned:
VROD - RIP
Deader than Mr Kurtz, "The horror! The horror!"
-
no one mentioned:
VROD - RIP
Deader than Mr Kurtz, "The horror! The horror!"
That's because it was gone last year.
-
That's because it was gone last year.
Well technically not gone till this year, but announced a year ago.
-
man, dead and forgotten.
sad
-
man, dead and forgotten.
sad
I guess only if you liked it in the first place.
-
There's a great article by Kevin Cameron in the latest Cycle World regarding the new Harley Dyna replacements-
http://www.cycleworld.com/2018-harley-davidson-softail-cruisers-tech-development
Peter Egan also has a short but good piece in the same issue.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2018-harley-davidson-softail-first-rides
.